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Who wins?

Kun solidly.

Exar Kun.

From what I can tell, Maul should win for some kind of majority if it's Kun without any additional amps/equipment.

Kun doesn't need amps or equipment, Kun wins.

Kun's got superior force training, which tips things.

Why's Kun winning?

About an equal as a duelist.

Stomps with the Force.

Originally posted by AncientPower
About an equal as a duelist.

Stomps with the Force.
Not really. Kun is comparable but not equal. And Maul has better physical feats than him all around.

And what Force feats has he got that so greatly surpass collapsing a massive tunnel or pulling a shuttle off a cliff?

Lightning bubbling a giant ass worm

Kun is a Niman master, with obviously high skill in Djem So and he is a powerhouse with Dark Rage.

His Force feats make Maul look like a child in comparison: Freezing lightsabers, offensively transferring essences, is stated by Kyp himself to dwarf Kyp's own power by JA by a massive magnitude. Pulled the Suncrusher out of Yavin Prime right before taking Luke out.

I can go on and on but when Kun as a spirit(I.E not his full strength, as confirmed by Baas) is pulling off top tier force feats, then full body Kun is damn scary.

Kun's ego holds him back but all-out Kun is outright ludicrous.

I don't really see how knowledge or use of Dark Rage directly correlates to skill level. It's a good support base, I guess, but being a master of lightsaber forms alone isn't enough to make you comparable to Darth Maul.

From my understanding Kun hasn't replicated any of these feats with a physical body, and I thought we were using Kun in a physical form, as in TOR era Kun. And this is the first I'm hearing of his physical form being more powerful than his spirit form.

He is the niman poster boy and was beating the likes of Vodo, a master of Form V with centuries of experience. Not to mention stalemated the best Jedi lightsaber duelist in the Jedi Order at the time, Ulic Qel-Droma.

Because he prefers to out-duel his opponents, something he clearly cannot do as a spirit. But yes Baas confirms that Kun will be more powerful in human form, Kun's end-game objective.

Physical form or spirit form does not matter because these are all techniques he knows regardless.

He beat Vodo the first time because he surprised him with his Saberstaff, and stalemating Qel-Droma only serves to prove that Maul is a superior duelist.

Maul, with a leg injury, rapidly began defeating Qui-Gon Jinn within a short period of time during their duel on Tattooine. As far as accolades go Jinn and Baas are roughly as skilled as each other. Maul then goes on to fight him and Kenobi (who at this point wasn't far behind Jinn as a duelist) simultaneously. He was stated as being more than Jinn's equal in terms of skill, from Anakin's perception Maul appeared to be more skilled than the pair of them collectively, and Maul was anticipating their attacks "with ease" according to two depictions of the fight. He's been listed by numerous sources as being one of the most skilled, highly trained and lethal Sith Warriors in the history of the Order. He's a better duelist than Kun, by a tier or so, and Kun is lacking physically on top of that.



So his human form with all of his cool Spirit powers never ended up existing? Meaning we'd need to either use his TOR self or Spirit version? Either one suits me.


This sounds far more familiar.

Originally posted by ILS
He beat Vodo the first time because he surprised him with his Saberstaff, and stalemating Qel-Droma only serves to prove that Maul is a superior duelist.

He beat Vodo the first time because he used two lightsabers and broke through his wooden staff(stated to be stronger than Kun's own lightsaber blade).

Then defeated Vodo a second time the moment he realized Vodo wasn't joining him.

It is stated in the sourcebooks that Vodo never stood a chance against Kun, regardless of the circumstances.

Ulic Qel-Droma was a master lightsaber duellist with considerable skill, let's not forget that even without the Force, he defeated an enraged Sylvar, a huge dueling feat when you realize what that entails.

Not to mention he got a lot better in the two years after that.
Originally posted by ILS Maul, with a leg injury, rapidly began defeating Qui-Gon Jinn within a short period of time during their duel on Tattooine. As far as accolades go Jinn and Baas are roughly as skilled as each other. Maul then goes on to fight him and Kenobi (who at this point wasn't far behind Jinn as a duelist) simultaneously. He was stated as being more than Jinn's equal in terms of skill, from Anakin's perception Maul appeared to be more skilled than the pair of them collectively, and Maul was anticipating their attacks "with ease" according to two depictions of the fight. He's been listed by numerous sources as being one of the most skilled, highly trained and lethal Sith Warriors in the history of the Order. He's a better duelist than Kun, by a tier or so, and Kun is lacking physically on top of that.
Kun is stated to be one of the greatest Sith Lords ever, not just duelist wise.

He pioneered saberstaff combat and completely hybridized his form into something unique, something very rarely done in the lore.
Originally posted by ILS So his human form with all of his cool Spirit powers never ended up existing? Meaning we'd need to either use his TOR self or Spirit version? Either one suits me.
He had those powers before he became a spirit... as a master sorcerer stated to be more powerful than any Ancient Sith Lord, this is hardly surprising.

Let us not forget that Kun has two mass Force Drain feats and evidently shrugs off Sever Force attacks from even the most powerful Jedi Master of his time.

Originally posted by ILS This sounds far more familiar.

Only because people are fairly ignorant of Kun's sourcebook statements.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Kun solidly.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Kun solidly.

Maul takes it...up the ass.

Originally posted by ILS
Not really. Kun is comparable but not equal.

Kun's feats with a blade are superior to Maul's. While it's difficult to compare their dueling opponents across eras, Exar Kun practically invented the double bladed saber, something that nobody in the past several thousand years before him had pulled off. Darth Maul may be a prodigy with the blade, but Exar Kun reinvented the field.



Yes, but I question the relevance of this.



In addition to what has already been provided, KJA described Exar Kun as the most powerful of the sith lords he created; that is, he is more powerful than Ragnos or the others, and can claim their non-unique feats by powerscaling.

I would turn this question around and ask, what has Darth Maul done in the Force exactly that is so impressive?

*sigh @skybreaker you need to shut **** up about Darth Maul. You are like joke.

Kun doesn't have any TK feats to compare with Maul.

Xfrh8WM5n6s

Only sorcery feats. Which makes them equal at best. Maul can handle Kun's kinetic strength easily, and wins via skill edge.

Nah, Skybreaker is right. Kun is far more powerful than Maul is, equal to or superior with a blade and Maul has no response to his amulet blasts.

Pretty much. It's a mismatch.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Kun solidly.

Yeah, Kun shits.

Kun's best TK feats are hurling featless Syvlar and defeating a very weakened Odan-Urr.
Maul has better TK than Exar. Maul is more skillful, equally strong, better H2H, more durable, faster.

Kun's only advantage here is sorcery, without it Maul should win.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah, Skybreaker is right. Kun is far more powerful than Maul is, equal to or superior with a blade and Maul has no response to his amulet blasts.


Dodging is a response. Proving Kun is equal, let alone superior, to Maul in sabers would be hard to prove, considering Maul's saber feats, accolades, and the feats and accolades of the opponents he's defeated. Not to mention that jedi of Kun's era were pretty much unfamiliar with Kun's style, which would have gave Kun a huge advantage that wouldn't present itself here. I think Kun is more powerful than Maul, but I'm not sure by how much. Kun's "ownage" of Luke was attributed to Kyp's power in the The New Essential Guide to Characters under Kyp's entry, IIRC. Skillz provided me with the passage of the incident, and that seemed to be pretty much the case. Kun was only amping Kyp's already prodigious power, while on a dark side nexus.

Who is Skybreaker, BTW? I'd like to address his argument about Yoda sometime later.

Well yeah, but he does have it, so he wins solidly regardless...

Well if Kun was able to drag the Sun-crusher from Yavin's core to Yavin IV in a short time his TK must be monstrous. If we assume the SC had a mass of 20 tons and the distance between Yavin Prime and Yavin IV was the same distance as Earth and the Moon, the Kinetic energy built up by tossing that much mass would be insane. The distance between Earth and the Moon is 384,400,000 meters. If it took Kun 10 seconds to bring the SC to Yavin the Kinetic impact would have been equal to a 4 Gigaton blast, which is enough to blow up a small Island. Although I'm pretty sure Kun was using Kyp's power, not his own since Kyp actually has feats to back that up like crushing artificial black holes and tossing around frigates and stuff like that. Also I believe that Kun's spirit had more power than his mortal self, however he needed something to focus his new-found power since that's the drawback of being a spirit.

Except he didn't lift it, he manipulated the controls of the ship to bring it up. Not to mention that this was a collaborative effort between Exar Kun and Kyp Durron.

Ok good I'm glad that's true. That also means it was Kyp's power that defeated Luke, which again makes sense since Kyp was hyped being stronger than Luke during that trilogy.

Not sure about sabers, but Kun should be able to blast the fool with his force powers.

In sabers eye wanna give it to Maul. In Force powers yeah Kun is able to blast through chunks of the Massassi temple, which I was told withstood some turbolaser firepower. All-out well I think their raw force power is similar but Kun's esoteric abilities will give him the win cause Hax.

I'm not sure for this one, Maul is the better duelist, and his TK can at the very least knock Kun back or stagger him whereas Kun's blasts without a nexus won't do as much and Maul can dodge them/obviously wont let him charge them. Maul is also faster, Kun's speed feats withstanding creating after images of his blade/leaving multiple afterglows (which are inferior feats to Mauls)

Kun's illusions might be difficult, but Maul's willpower is sufficient enough to make them negligible at least for a majority. I'm siding with Maul at least 6-8/10 times with the odd few rounds for Kun via his force abilities

Maul is not the better duelist, they are about equal in reality.

TK? the only time Kun has ever suffered a successful TK attack is when Nadd, a spirit, collapsed rocks on him.

The nexus argument used against Kun is so incorrect that it's sad, please genuinely read Tales of the Jedi and the companions.

Vodo and Kun were fighting so fast they appeared as a blur to Sylvar, Nomi and Cay(three powerful Jedi Knights) so no Maul's speed feats aren't greater.

Kun won't use such illusions, he'll just freeze his lightsaber when things get serious.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Maul is not the better duelist, they are about equal in reality.

TK? the only time Kun has ever suffered a successful TK attack is when Nadd, a spirit, collapsed rocks on him.

The nexus argument used against Kun is so incorrect that it's sad, please genuinely read Tales of the Jedi and the companions.

Vodo and Kun were fighting so fast they appeared as a blur to Sylvar, Nomi and Cay(three powerful Jedi Knights) so no Maul's speed feats aren't greater.

Kun won't use such illusions, he'll just freeze his lightsaber when things get serious.

Maul fighting evenly with Mace Windu, beating Savage Opress, physically taking down Grievous/outfighting him, pwning Aayla Secura are all feats that surpass Kun beating Vodo (who is equivalent to Jinn) and fighting evenly with Ulic . I think they're on the same tier as duelists personally, but Maul's feats are simply better.

Kun's speed feats are solid, roughly equivalent to Qui Gon Jinn's, Agen Kolar's, Quinlan Vos's etc, Maul is faster than all of those fighters. Maul has formed webs of light out of his lightsaber, fought faster than Komari Vosa could perceive, dodging a freight train, moving so fast that advanced recording equipment had to be slowed to see him, throwing blows imperceptibly fast etc.

Maul is also physically stronger. Kun has smashed a holocron, smashed Vodo into the ground in one swoop as well as Crado, and had the impact of his meeting blades with Crado resound from miles around. Maul has broken durasteel binders, driven his fist through a wampas torso, ripped the skull off of a varactyl, smashed durasteel droids, and broken bones on contact.

The only advantage Kun has is sorcery, and that would only grant him a few rounds at most considering Kun prefers fighting his enemies with a saber as opposed to fighting with the force. Kun's blasts are no issue for Maul



Quote/scan for that? That still wouldn't be a superior feat to anything by Maul, but that would be a great feat for Kun

Hmmmmmmmmm

Originally posted by carthage
Maul fighting evenly with Mace Windu, beating Savage Opress, physically taking down Grievous/outfighting him, pwning Aayla Secura are all feats that surpass Kun beating Vodo and fighting evenly with Ulic. I think they're on the same tier as duelists personally, but Maul's feats are simply better.

Kun's speed feats are solid, roughly equivalent to Qui Gon Jinn's, Agen Kolar's, Quinlan Vos's etc, Maul is faster than all of those fighters. Maul has formed webs of light out of his lightsaber, fought faster than Komari Vosa could perceive, dodging a freight train, moving so fast that advanced recording equipment had to be slowed to see him, throwing blows imperceptibly fast etc.

Maul is also physically stronger. Kun has smashed a holocron, smashed Vodo into the ground in one swoop as well as Crado, and had the impact of his meeting blades with Crado resound from miles around. Maul has broken durasteel binders, driven his fist through a wampas torso, ripped the skull off of a varactyl, smashed durasteel droids, and broken bones on contact.

The only advantage Kun has is sorcery, and that would only grant him a few rounds at most considering Kun prefers fighting his enemies with a saber as opposed to fighting with the force.
Windu is the only one you have listed that is definitely superior to either Vodo or Ulic, in-fact I'd say they are better than both Aayla and Savage and would win with high difficulty against Grievous.

Maul doesn't win by default just because he can square up against PT duelists.

Vodo has been listed as an all-time great lightsaber master in the Order's history in sourcebooks, Ulic is stated to be the best duelist the Order has seen by this point. Proven by the fact that without a Force connection, he stomped a Dark Side enraged Sylvar, whom is stated to be second only to Kun among all of Vodo's students.

Cay and Nomi are stated to be very powerful in the Force, Cay is even stated to be Ulic's near equal, far more so than Vosa and they could only witness a blur.

Kun has broken through a wall of Beskar and smashed through Vodo's staff twice despite it being stated to be stronger than Kun's blade in the first place.

This is all-out so using the PIS argument is invalid, as soon as this turns to the Force, Maul is out-matched in every way.

Kun is stated to be far more powerful than any one Jedi of his time, that Vodo never stood a chance against him in a duel. He even showed immunity to a Sever Force attack by Odan Urr, a peerless master of the technique whom severed countless Sith in the GHW.

Kun and Maul are roughly equal as duelists, in the Force Kun has a strong edge.

When did they perceive Kun as a blur though?

Do you have an image for that?

Originally posted by carthage
Quote/scan for that? That still wouldn't be a superior feat to anything by Maul, but that would be a great feat for Kun

'The Jedi Knights, the Sith and the Senate witnessed as a blue blur consumed the Krevaaki, leaving only his broken body.' - TotJ Comp

Question, can anyone post Kun and Crado's/Sylvar's sabers making a sound heard miles away?

I will tommorow. Speaking of which, quote for Vodo and Exar only being visible as blurs to Nomi?

I already posted it.

Originally posted by AncientPower
'The Jedi Knights, the Sith and the Senate witnessed as a blue blur consumed the Krevaaki, leaving only his broken body.' - TotJ Comp

Impressive.

Actually taking in the context, I might put that down to a rage feat.

Just to be fair here, though if 'the Sith' includes Ulic then that is a damn nice speed/rage feat.

Which issue did Kun break Beskar? All eye remember was him saying that Nadd's temple was made of it and Lightsabers can barely scratch it.

I posted that feat on Silver's respect thread, that definitely pushes him up a little in terms of speed. I had never seen that one or even knew it existed, I always assumed he just had made multiple afterglows/ multiple afterimages. If he could fight faster than Ulic/Nomi could perceive that's approaching Maul's level at the very least

Originally posted by The Merchant
Which issue did Kun break Beskar? All eye remember was him saying that Nadd's temple was made of it and Lightsabers can barely scratch it.

He then proceeds to break into it after twitching with his blade.

Kun win... But at the light saber fight?
.......... Eeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....
Does some one have coin? I need to make a coin toss, pile ou face?