Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Janemba:
http://s7.postimg.org/t6kpik1i3/285px_Janemba.png


VS.


Super Buu:
http://s7.postimg.org/plotzbwyj/imageedit_1_9883895587.gif


-Battle takes place in otherworld.

Who wins?

id say janemba because a fusion was needed to defeat him whereas super buu would bfighting in a stale mate vs ssj3's

A Super Saiyan 3 Fusion you mean.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
A Super Saiyan 3 Fusion you mean.

eh thats true but i dont think gotenks was that much stronger than goku.

Goku admitted Super Buu would kill him. Gotenks was likely fairly stronger than Goku.

Janemba is probably more powerful but I could see Buu wearing him down.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Goku admitted Super Buu would kill him. Gotenks was likely fairly stronger than Goku.

Janemba is probably more powerful but I could see Buu wearing him down.


wasnt he talking about fat buu then and later he admitted that he could have killed him but he wanted the other fighters to do it

With Gohan or Gotenks absorbed I think he could beat Janemba but he doesn't stand a chance as Super Buu.

SSJ3 Gotenks was a lot more powerful than SSJ3 Goku. Proof is in the fact that SSJ3 Gotenks stalemated Super Buu, whereas Goku outright stated that Super Buu was "far stronger" than himself:
http://i.imgur.com/QP37bGm.gif
ie. SSJ3 Gotenks~Super Buu>>SSJ3 Goku. Mind you, I think Gotenks was actually a little weaker than Buu, but the difference was miniscule.

As for this thread, it's very hard to say. On one hand, SSJ3 Goku was powerful enough to make Janemba have to work a bit for the win, but Goku was also dead at the time. So in all likelihood, he was tapping the FULL potential of SSJ3, as he didn't have the stamina/power limitations of a living body hindering him. And remember, these same 'FPSSJ3' energies would have been sufficient to destroy the likes of Kid Buu and Fat Buu "in an instant." So yeah...

On the other hand, Goku stated that Super Buu was FAR more powerful than himself, and almost seemed scared to fight him. This implies that Super Buu would have beaten him without much effort. However, Goku was also among the living at the time, so he may-or-may-not have even been able to reach full-power as a SSJ3, due to the enormous strain it puts on a living body... But I digress. /shrug

Anywho, I believe Janemba's and Super Buu's powers are fairly close. Then tack on the zany 'magical' abilities they have at their disposal(Buu has chocolate transmutation attacks and absorption--Janemba has transmutation and portal creation/teleportation), and I think this could be a really good fight... Though I'd probably side with Buu in the end.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
With Gohan or Gotenks absorbed I think he could beat Janemba but he doesn't stand a chance as Super Buu.


oh yea definitely

Well, Goku also said that Janemba has the power to destroy a Universe. Don't think Buu is that powerful.

Blatant hyperbole isn't a feat, carv. Heck, not even Beerus was credited with universal destruction. Janemba>Beerus, iyo?

Galan strikes again! Throwing around words you don't know the definition of seems to be your strong suite.

Seriously though, you have to realize and distinguish the cannon you're using here. Anime, or manga. Tbh, the anime is more backed by the Daizenshuu, giving it slightly more merit, but the manga IS still the manga, which separates the cannon into two.

Basically, Manga cannon, Buu has a shot of winning, but only due to absorption. This is because in the manga, Goku said he was weaker than Super Buu, and it wasn't defined in which form.

Anime cannon though, Goku said that Gotenks at SSJ3 wasn't, "quite at his level yet", but it was still amazing that he could go SSJ3. Not to mention that Goku and Vegeta said Kid Buu was stronger than or equal to Buuhan, meaning that SSJ3 Goku in the anime was monstrously stronger than Gohan, let alone Gotenks or Super Buu. And yes, Fat Janemba was universe level.

So what I'm saying here, is that we use anime cannon, as Janemba is movie only, meaning that Janemba in his fat, yellow form, shits on Super Buu like he's a joke.

Manga takes precedence, always. If it wasn't said or done in the manga, then it becomes non-canon anime filler. Simple. Only an idiot would seriously argue otherwise... Not surprised, though, as idiocy "seems to be your strong suite."

Super Buu wins.

Janemba's film is canon only to itself

And Daizenshuu is as reliable as the Nardo databooks

i honestly dont think dbz characters are universe busters

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Galan strikes again! Throwing around words you don't know the definition of seems to be your strong suite.

Seriously though, you have to realize and distinguish the cannon you're using here. Anime, or manga. Tbh, the anime is more backed by the Daizenshuu, giving it slightly more merit, but the manga IS still the manga, which separates the cannon into two.

Basically, Manga cannon, Buu has a shot of winning, but only due to absorption. This is because in the manga, Goku said he was weaker than Super Buu, and it wasn't defined in which form.

Anime cannon though, Goku said that Gotenks at SSJ3 wasn't, "quite at his level yet", but it was still amazing that he could go SSJ3. Not to mention that Goku and Vegeta said Kid Buu was stronger than or equal to Buuhan, meaning that SSJ3 Goku in the anime was monstrously stronger than Gohan, let alone Gotenks or Super Buu. And yes, Fat Janemba was universe level.

So what I'm saying here, is that we use anime cannon, as Janemba is movie only, meaning that Janemba in his fat, yellow form, shits on Super Buu like he's a joke.


woah when did goku say kid buu was stonger than buuhan that makes zero sense because buuhan was man handle both goku and vegeta.


kid buu may have been more wild and ruthless than buuhan but stronger hell no.

We know Yungz. Everyone knows. Just don't bring it up again. If SSJGGOGETA gets on about it... this thread will be destroyed with calcs and bullshit one liners that apparently have precedence over feats. Just don't bring that upon us. I like my brain cell where they are.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
We know Yungz. Everyone knows. Just don't bring it up again. If SSJGGOGETA gets on about it... this thread will be destroyed with calcs and bullshit one liners that apparently have precedence over feats. Just don't bring that upon us. I like my brain cell where they are.

Ok i wont but there was so much fu**ery in that post lol

He even gets me mad about DBZ sometimes. And I love DBZ.

Originally posted by Galan007
Manga takes precedence, always. If it wasn't said or done in the manga, then it becomes non-canon anime filler. Simple. Only an idiot would seriously argue otherwise... Not surprised, though, as idiocy "seems to be your strong suite."

Agreed.

Or I would be, if we weren't arguing about an anime/movie only character here.

Originally posted by yungz22
woah when did goku say kid buu was stonger than buuhan that makes zero sense because buuhan was man handle both goku and vegeta.


kid buu may have been more wild and ruthless than buuhan but stronger hell no.

I can link the scene if you want.

Goku says, SPECIFICALLY, "What?! He's getting stronger instead of weaker!", as he was turning from Super Buu into Kid Buu.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Agreed.

Or I would be, if we weren't arguing about an anime/movie only character here.

-whoosh-

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
I can link the scene if you want.

Goku says, SPECIFICALLY, "What?! He's getting stronger instead of weaker!", as he was turning from Super Buu into Kid Buu.

I'd be happy to argue this with you on the proper thread that probably already exists.

Yeah, Kid Buu wasn't more powerful than Buuhan. Not by a long shot. More dangerous, perhaps? Sure... He mercilessly destroyed everything in his path for the lulz w/o thinking twice, whereas his other, more intelligible, incarnations wanted a good fight beyond anything else--the genocide of ALL wasn't their #1 priority. Kid Buu also seemed better(or at least faster) with regen and technique-duping than his other incarnations. Where sheer power is concerned, however...
Buuhan>>Buutenks>Mystic Gohan>>SSJ3 Gotenks~Super Buu>>FPSSJ3 Goku>>Kid Buu>>Fat Buu.

^^ All of that can be substantiated by the manga.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
I can link the scene if you want.

Goku says, SPECIFICALLY, "What?! He's getting stronger instead of weaker!", as he was turning from Super Buu into Kid Buu.


dude just think about the logic buuhan was whooping bith vegeta and goku's ass.

but goku could fight kid buu on his own

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
I can link the scene if you want.

Goku says, SPECIFICALLY, "What?! He's getting stronger instead of weaker!", as he was turning from Super Buu into Kid Buu.

He says that AFTER Buu has already turned back into Super Buu so if anything you should be arguing that Kid Buu>Super Buu. He's not but at least your stance would make a little bit more sense

Originally posted by yungz22
dude just think about the logic buuhan was whooping bith vegeta and goku's ass.

but goku could fight kid buu on his own

Yeah, and they were both SSJ2. Goku fought Kid Buu as a SSJ3, and still was unable to beat him. Not to mention that Vegeta and Goku both held their ground(in the anime only).

Originally posted by juggerman
He says that AFTER Buu has already turned back into Super Buu so if anything you should be arguing that Kid Buu>Super Buu. He's not but at least your stance would make a little bit more sense

Yeah, my bad, it's been a minute since I saw the scene. Still though, he did confirm that Kid Buu > Super Buu. That at least puts Goku still above Gotenks, and around Gohan's level.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Yeah, my bad, it's been a minute since I saw the scene. Still though, he did confirm that Kid Buu > Super Buu. That at least puts Goku still above Gotenks, and around Gohan's level.

Actually no. It confirms that Buff Buu>Super Buu because when they said that he was changing into his muscular counterpart:

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3157-13/dragon-ball/chapter-508.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3158-1/dragon-ball/chapter-509.html

Then notice how Vegeta says "he's still changing"

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3158-1/dragon-ball/chapter-509.html





So he was not necessarily growing stronger at this point. In fact he was likely growing weaker and here's why:

They can clearly sense Kid Buu's power but Vegeta thinks they can "handle that"

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3158-1/dragon-ball/chapter-509.html





As opposed to how they felt against Super Buu:

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3157-12/dragon-ball/chapter-508.html

They feel they need to hide as opposed to fighting Super Buu

There are several other factors that point to Kid Buu being weaker like the fact that Goku like Goku admitting it himself:

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3156-12/dragon-ball/chapter-507.html

"He's still far too strong for us". Not just too strong but FAR too strong. And he has no reason to fib at this point since Vegeta knows about the SSJ3 form. Yet Goku was able to fight evenly with Kid Buu. That shows Super Buu>>>>SSJ3 Goku>=Kid Buu

Originally posted by juggerman
Actually no. It confirms that Buff Buu>Super Buu because when they said that he was changing into his muscular counterpart:

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3157-13/dragon-ball/chapter-508.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3158-1/dragon-ball/chapter-509.html

Then notice how Vegeta says "he's still changing"

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3158-1/dragon-ball/chapter-509.html





So he was not necessarily growing stronger at this point. In fact he was likely growing weaker and here's why:

They can clearly sense Kid Buu's power but Vegeta thinks they can "handle that"

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3158-1/dragon-ball/chapter-509.html





As opposed to how they felt against Super Buu:

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3157-12/dragon-ball/chapter-508.html

They feel they need to hide as opposed to fighting Super Buu

There are several other factors that point to Kid Buu being weaker like the fact that Goku like Goku admitting it himself:

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3156-12/dragon-ball/chapter-507.html

"He's still far too strong for us". Not just too strong but FAR too strong. And he has no reason to fib at this point since Vegeta knows about the SSJ3 form. Yet Goku was able to fight evenly with Kid Buu. That shows Super Buu>>>>SSJ3 Goku>=Kid Buu

1. I don't know why you're still arguing manga cannon here, when I clearly said that we are using anime, considering Janemba is a movie character. Refer to my previous post. "Basically, Manga cannon, Buu has a shot of winning, but only due to absorption. This is because in the manga, Goku said he was weaker than Super Buu, and it wasn't defined in which form.", and again, even in the manga, we saw Goku confident that he could at least distract BuuTENKS in the manga, for Gohan to find the potara.

2. Secondly, don't even try saying, "oh, anime ain't cannon.", because you're basing your entire argument off of buff Buu, a form of Kid Buu that was only introduced in the anime. In the manga, as you showed, he just randomly became buff, and then became Kid Buu. Vegeta and Goku never indicated or even suggested any kind of decrease from Buff to Kid Buu.

3. Thirdly, you could clearly see that even Vegeta was unconfident when saying he thought they could handle Kid Buu, as he had a nervous sweat drop running down his face. Very noticeably, I might add.

http://i19.mangapanda.com/dragon-ball/509/dragon-ball-72362.jpg

As you can see, Goku is also very nervous, and clearly less confident than Vegeta.

4. Also, Vegeta has been proven wrong in the past when judging a book by its cover. In fact, it's very likely that he was simply saying they would win, judging Kid Buu by his stature. He did the same thing when fighting Android 18, and when he fought PF Cell, and got pwned. Goku is usually right about these things though, and he was clearly nervous just like Vegeta.

5. Notice that in the scan you just provided, Goku yelled for "Everyone", to hide, and not just Vegeta. He was clearly talking about the still unconscious children and Piccolo he and Vegeta were holding, which is why in the next panel, you see them placing the four on the ground near trees before flying back to Buu. Why would they fly back to him if THEY themselves were trying to hide from him? lol.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
1. I don't know why you're still arguing manga cannon here, when I clearly said that we are using anime, considering Janemba is a movie character. Refer to my previous post. "Basically, Manga cannon, Buu has a shot of winning, but only due to absorption. This is because in the manga, Goku said he was weaker than Super Buu, and it wasn't defined in which form.", and again, even in the manga, we saw Goku confident that he could at least distract BuuTENKS in the manga, for Gohan to find the potara.

2. Secondly, don't even try saying, "oh, anime ain't cannon.", because you're basing your entire argument off of buff Buu, a form of Kid Buu that was only introduced in the anime. In the manga, as you showed, he just randomly became buff, and then became Kid Buu. Vegeta and Goku never indicated or even suggested any kind of decrease from Buff to Kid Buu.

3. Thirdly, you could clearly see that even Vegeta was unconfident when saying he thought they could handle Kid Buu, as he had a nervous sweat drop running down his face. Very noticeably, I might add.

http://i19.mangapanda.com/dragon-ball/509/dragon-ball-72362.jpg

As you can see, Goku is also very nervous, and clearly less confident than Vegeta.

4. Also, Vegeta has been proven wrong in the past when judging a book by its cover. In fact, it's very likely that he was simply saying they would win, judging Kid Buu by his stature. He did the same thing when fighting Android 18, and when he fought PF Cell, and got pwned. Goku is usually right about these things though, and he was clearly nervous just like Vegeta.

5. Notice that in the scan you just provided, Goku yelled for "Everyone", to hide, and not just Vegeta. He was clearly talking about the still unconscious children and Piccolo he and Vegeta were holding, which is why in the next panel, you see them placing the four on the ground near trees before flying back to Buu. Why would they fly back to him if THEY themselves were trying to hide from him? lol.


are you really trying to argue that buuhan was weaker than kid buu?

Originally posted by chasedown
are you really trying to argue that buuhan was weaker than kid buu?

"Yeah, my bad, it's been a minute since I saw the scene. Still though, he did confirm that Kid Buu > Super Buu. That at least puts Goku still above Gotenks, and around Gohan's level."

Learn to read.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
"Yeah, my bad, it's been a minute since I saw the scene. Still though, he did confirm that Kid Buu > Super Buu. That at least puts Goku still above Gotenks, and around Gohan's level."

Learn to read.


i asked a simple question. your the one that said it not me

Oh man I was always under the assumption that Kid Buu was the strongest form.

Originally posted by Galan007
Buuhan>>Buutenks>Mystic Gohan>>SSJ3 Gotenks~Super Buu>>FPSSJ3 Goku>>Kid Buu>>Fat Buu.

^^ All of that can be substantiated by the manga.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
1. I don't know why you're still arguing manga cannon here, when I clearly said that we are using anime, considering Janemba is a movie character. Refer to my previous post. "Basically, Manga cannon, Buu has a shot of winning, but only due to absorption. This is because in the manga, Goku said he was weaker than Super Buu, and it wasn't defined in which form.", and again, even in the manga, we saw Goku confident that he could at least distract BuuTENKS in the manga, for Gohan to find the potara.

2. Secondly, don't even try saying, "oh, anime ain't cannon.", because you're basing your entire argument off of buff Buu, a form of Kid Buu that was only introduced in the anime. In the manga, as you showed, he just randomly became buff, and then became Kid Buu. Vegeta and Goku never indicated or even suggested any kind of decrease from Buff to Kid Buu.

3. Thirdly, you could clearly see that even Vegeta was unconfident when saying he thought they could handle Kid Buu, as he had a nervous sweat drop running down his face. Very noticeably, I might add.

http://i19.mangapanda.com/dragon-ball/509/dragon-ball-72362.jpg

As you can see, Goku is also very nervous, and clearly less confident than Vegeta.

4. Also, Vegeta has been proven wrong in the past when judging a book by its cover. In fact, it's very likely that he was simply saying they would win, judging Kid Buu by his stature. He did the same thing when fighting Android 18, and when he fought PF Cell, and got pwned. Goku is usually right about these things though, and he was clearly nervous just like Vegeta.

5. Notice that in the scan you just provided, Goku yelled for "Everyone", to hide, and not just Vegeta. He was clearly talking about the still unconscious children and Piccolo he and Vegeta were holding, which is why in the next panel, you see them placing the four on the ground near trees before flying back to Buu. Why would they fly back to him if THEY themselves were trying to hide from him? lol.

And here we..... GO!

1. When makes you decide what we are using here? Are you the OP? Nope. So yeah stop it. Also are you seriously trying to argue that Goku being able to distract Buu means anything at all?

2. Do you need me to post the page again showing Buff Buu? I never said Buff Buu fought or was shown at length but it was a form we clearly see in the manga. His power increasing in that form is akin to Ultra Super Saiyan Trunks. His power went thru the roof so of course they commented on it but he didn't mantain the form or the power. It's quite simple really

3. Yet had Buu's power been as high as it was in his "Buff" state the comment wouldn't have been made at all.

4. I never said Vegeta was right. Hell just a couple of chapters later he was proven dead wrong. That doesn't take away what I said tho. His power increased by a lot and Goku and Vegeta noticed. The same Goku and Vegeta that knew damn well that Super Buu was too powerful for them. So if a guy "far too stong" for them was growing even stronger why the hell would Vegeta think they could take him?

Size means nothing and Vegeta knows it. Unless you think he's forgotten the ass whipping puny Frieza layed on him or the fact that Gohan as a pint sized kid made him look like a noob when he assended to SSJ2 against Cell or when the tiny Cell Jrs rocked his socks off. Come on man. You make Vegeta sound like a true moron. He even states several times in the Buu Saga that he knows he's out of his league. So why the sudden boost of confidence? It's obviously due to Kid Buu no mantaining the power that they sensed previously.

5. Are you saying Goku was telling the unconcious people to hide let they could comply? And I like how you ignore the fact that they flew over to see the changes happening but still stayed far away enough not to be noticed. They didn't actually "reveal" themselves until their lives were in jeopardy

Originally posted by Galan007
Buuhan>>Buutenks>Mystic Gohan>>Super Buu>SSJ3 Gotenks>>FPSSJ3 Goku>>Kid Buu>>Fat Buu.

^^ All of that can be substantiated by the manga.

Fixed

^ I can live with that.

My main point is simply that, from a 'power at their disposal' standpoint, Kid Buu was one of the character's weaker variations--him being referred to as the "most dangerous" version =/= him being the "most powerful" version(I explained the difference above.) Remember, a less-than-full-power SSJ3 Goku was able to give Kid Buu a good fight. A fully-powered SSJ3 Goku could have destroyed him "in an instant." Conversely, Goku stated that Super Buu was still "FAR too strong" for he and Vegeta to even try and fight. This tells us that FPSSJ3 Goku would have been less than nothing in comparison to Super Buu.
ie. Super Buu>>>>Kid Buu.

Granted, Kid Buu stomped Fat/good Buu, but that's not really saying much. When Fat Buu separated into his good and evil aspects, "most of" his power went to the evil aspect:
http://i.imgur.com/r1AuWLW.gif
So theoretically, SSJ2 Vegeta could have given Fat/good Buu a good fight... Possibly even beat him. /shrug

Originally posted by juggerman
And here we..... GO!

1. When makes you decide what we are using here? Are you the OP? Nope. So yeah stop it. Also are you seriously trying to argue that Goku being able to distract Buu means anything at all?

2. Do you need me to post the page again showing Buff Buu? I never said Buff Buu fought or was shown at length but it was a form we clearly see in the manga. His power increasing in that form is akin to Ultra Super Saiyan Trunks. His power went thru the roof so of course they commented on it but he didn't mantain the form or the power. It's quite simple really

3. Yet had Buu's power been as high as it was in his "Buff" state the comment wouldn't have been made at all.

4. I never said Vegeta was right. Hell just a couple of chapters later he was proven dead wrong. That doesn't take away what I said tho. His power increased by a lot and Goku and Vegeta noticed. The same Goku and Vegeta that knew damn well that Super Buu was too powerful for them. So if a guy "far too stong" for them was growing even stronger why the hell would Vegeta think they could take him?

Size means nothing and Vegeta knows it. Unless you think he's forgotten the ass whipping puny Frieza layed on him or the fact that Gohan as a pint sized kid made him look like a noob when he assended to SSJ2 against Cell or when the tiny Cell Jrs rocked his socks off. Come on man. You make Vegeta sound like a true moron. He even states several times in the Buu Saga that he knows he's out of his league. So why the sudden boost of confidence? It's obviously due to Kid Buu no mantaining the power that they sensed previously.

5. Are you saying Goku was telling the unconcious people to hide let they could comply? And I like how you ignore the fact that they flew over to see the changes happening but still stayed far away enough not to be noticed. They didn't actually "reveal" themselves until their lives were in jeopardy

1. OP didn't specify, meaning we take the one that makes most sense in the context. Janemba is anime/movie only characters, meaning we should use the same thing to decipher his and Buu's power. If someone made a thread titled, "Vegeta vs. Cell", you wouldn't assume they were taking Saiyan saga Vegeta, unless they specified, would you?

2. Where was "Buff" Buu shown to be a form at all OUTSIDE the anime? Never. All of what you just said is assumption, and baseless at that. Again, show me ONE scan where they said Kid Buu was weaker than Buff Buu. You can't, because they didn't. And inference from Vegeta's cocky, arrogant, but still unsure statement, can be disproven by the fact that he and Goku were both incredibly nervous still even while Vegeta said that.

3. How do you know? Again, Vegeta's never been that good at reading ki's OR facing his own weakness to begin with. Remember how he commented how weak Cell looked in perfect form compared to his second form? That was right before he got curb-stomped like a child while Cell was just warming up. Not to mention that he even SAID that he thought he and Goku could take Kid Buu, but was, as you said, disproven mere pages later. If you acknowledge that his statement was false, then why are you using it in the first place? lol

4. As I just said, Vegeta was clearly nervous when saying that, and has been shown to make untrue statements while under pressure MANY times in the past. Are you forgetting that he said practically the same thing to Frieza?

What? None of that is true at all. In fact, the scan SPECIFICALLY shows Vegeta stating that the reason they could "take" Kid Buu, was because he was a "midget". He was clearly only countering Goku's statement of his power rising, by giving an observation of his small size. He's made the same mistake dozens of times before, it's pretty obvious that he was doing the same here. He wasn't able to come to terms with his inferiority until he watched Goku fight Kid Buu, and let go of his pride to admit Goku was better. Again, you're basing your entire argument off of a statement you JUST admitted was false. Not to mention the fact that you're reading "He's a midget! I think we can handle that!", as, "He's weaker than before! We can handle that!", when in fact it is clearly an observation of his stature, which should more accurately be read as, "He's smaller now! That should mean he's weaker now!".

5. Most likely. In fact, in the heat of the moment, Goku didn't even look or pay any mind to the unconscious people he and Vegeta were holding. He likely was yelling to them, and anyone that could have been around Buu at the time, since he didn't know, as he simply realized that they all grew back to normal size. It's very likely that he didn't even have time to notice that they were still unconscious until they actually started flying.

Also, Vegeta and Goku were flying in the clear, open sky, pretty close to Kid Buu. The fact that he didn't notice them was just to stress how little he cared about his surroundings. The phucker was born, yelled for a second, then shot a planet busting ki blast at the surface. He didn't notice Vegeta and Goku until they actually did something to him, which was deflect his blast. If that was Cell, he would have looked at them, and started fighting. You're forgetting that Kid Buu was the most unpredictable, and destructive villain in the series. He just didn't care.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ I can live with that.

My main point is simply that, from a 'power at their disposal' standpoint, Kid Buu was one of the character's weaker variations--him being referred to as the "most dangerous" version =/= him being the "most powerful" version(I explained the difference above.) Remember, a less-than-full-power SSJ3 Goku was able to give Kid Buu a good fight. A fully-powered SSJ3 Goku could have destroyed him "in an instant." Conversely, Goku stated that Super Buu was still "FAR too strong" for he and Vegeta to even try and fight. This tells us that FPSSJ3 Goku would have been less than nothing in comparison to Super Buu.
ie. Super Buu>>>>Kid Buu.

Granted, Kid Buu stomped Fat/good Buu, but that's not really saying much. When Fat Buu separated into his good and evil aspects, "most of" his power went to the evil aspect:
http://i.imgur.com/r1AuWLW.gif
So theoretically, SSJ2 Vegeta could have given Fat/good Buu a good fight... Possibly even beat him. /shrug

Again, you're taking statements from different contexts. Goku only said he could destroy kid Buu at full power in an instant, in the anime. In the manga, he said he had been trying to the entire time, and wasn't just giving Vegeta a chance to fight.

Also, even in the manga, Goku was still severely underpowered at that point, from being SSJ2 for so long after fighting for two days straight. In the anime, iirc, he even got healed by Dende before Kid Buu showed up to them flaring their power. In the manga, Kid Buu showed up right after they did as soon as he reformed. He didn't go around destroying other planets, or show up in other world.

Also, speaking observationally, Piccolo stated how strong Super Buu was in both versions of cannon. He said right when Buu transformed into Super Buu, that "his power's increased, but his body's also better for fighting now", which implies that the biggest difference between the Majin Buu Babidi summoned, and Super Buu, was that Super Buu was smarter and had a better body for fighting. This makes sense, because the only difference in Fat Buu and Super Buu, was that Fat Buu was mostly good, and Super Buu was mostly evil. The were both made up of Good Buu/Mr. Buu, and evil Buu/Black Buu. This makes sense, because Gotenks in base form was still child's play for Super Buu.

Oh god please no! This is meant to be about Janemba!

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Again, you're taking statements from different contexts. Goku only said he could destroy kid Buu at full power in an instant, in the anime. In the manga, he said he had been trying to the entire time, and wasn't just giving Vegeta a chance to fight. http://i.imgur.com/HLUq2yV.gif

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Originally posted by Galan007
http://i.imgur.com/HLUq2yV.gif

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Um, is that NOT what I literally JUST said? Vegeta monologues about how Goku can beat him in an instant in SSJ3, but Goku says he's been trying to the whole time.

http://m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/214/42-008.0/compressed/420813.jpg?v=41192795666

See? Goku says it would take a MINUTE to gather enough ki to kill Kid Buu, and in the end, he was still wrong because it takes more ki to stay in SSJ3 than he can build up. Either way, Goku in the manga was UNABLE to beat Kid Buu, but in the anime, he specifically said he WAS.

Are you truly THIS incapable of comprehending BASIC narrative?

Goku stated that he'd been trying to reach full power as a SSJ3, but was unable to because he required at least a minute to devote solely to powering up, and Kid Buu never gave him that much time. When Vegeta finally entered the fray, and attempted to buy Goku time, his stamina was already depleted from the lengthy battle with Kid Buu he'd just been involved in, which rendered him unable to reach full power as a SSJ3.

HAD Goku been able to fully power up, however, he could have destroyed Kid Buu "in an INSTANT." Conversely, Goku explicitly stated that Super Buu was "FAR" more powerful than himself.
ie. Super Buu>>>FPSSJ3 Goku>>>Kid Buu.

You can try and contort things all you'd like, but those ARE the facts. No amount of your childish antics can change that.

I've been reading this just to watch you guys go at it, and upon scanning through the Buu saga again I found some choice tidbits.

http://i11.mangapanda.com/dragon-ball/510/dragon-ball-72377.jpg
This might by my favourite.

Goku is literally worse than Hitler.

Originally posted by Galan007
Are you truly THIS incapable of comprehending BASIC narrative?

Goku stated that he'd been trying to reach full power as a SSJ3, but was unable to because he required at least a minute to devote solely to powering up, and Kid Buu never gave him that much time. When Vegeta finally entered the fray, and attempted to buy Goku time, his stamina was already depleted from the lengthy battle with Kid Buu he'd just been involved in, which rendered him unable to reach full power as a SSJ3.

HAD Goku been able to fully power up, however, he could have destroyed Kid Buu "in an INSTANT." Conversely, Goku explicitly stated that Super Buu was "FAR" more powerful than himself.
ie. Super Buu>>>FPSSJ3 Goku>>>Kid Buu.

You can try and contort things all you'd like, but those ARE the facts. No amount of your childish antics can change that.

Are you trying to make yourself look stupid?

Either that, or you literally don't know how to read. Look at the scan again.

http://i.imgur.com/HLUq2yV.gif

Since your english teacher obviously did such a bad job, let me educate you here.

In the scan, you can clearly see Vegeta say, "While SS3 at full power, you can destroy him in an instant.", to which Goku replies, "That's what I've been trying to do, but I haven't been able to yet."

Look at the dialogue. The verb in Vegeta's sentence, which is the basis of Goku's statement in reply, is clearly the word, "destroy". Goku says that's what he's been trying to DO. There is nothing else in the context that can be construed as a thing for him to do. He can't "at full power". He can't "in an instant". He can't "While SS3". He CAN "destroy".

Do you still need help, or do you get it now?

This is ridiculous.

Originally posted by BloodRain
This is ridiculous.

im still trying to figure out how the anime takes precedence over the manga

It doesn't.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Are you trying to make yourself look stupid?

Either that, or you literally don't know how to read. Look at the scan again.

http://i.imgur.com/HLUq2yV.gif

Since your english teacher obviously did such a bad job, let me educate you here.

In the scan, you can clearly see Vegeta say, "While SS3 at full power, you can destroy him in an instant.", to which Goku replies, "That's what I've been trying to do, but I haven't been able to yet."

Look at the dialogue. The verb in Vegeta's sentence, which is the basis of Goku's statement in reply, is clearly the word, "destroy". Goku says that's what he's been trying to DO. There is nothing else in the context that can be construed as a thing for him to do. He can't "at full power". He can't "in an instant". He can't "While SS3". He CAN "destroy".

Do you still need help, or do you get it now? Lol, you are the essence of idiot. This is the simplest of dialogue, yet you've managed to phuck it up.

The only way for Goku to destroy Kid Buu was by fully powering up. However, he'd "been trying to" fully power up/destroy Buu, but doing so required a solid minute of 'charging'--and Buu never gave him that much time. IF Goku could have reached FPSSJ3, he would've destroyed Kid Buu "in an INSTANT."

At least I know for sure that you truly ARE incapable of comprehending BASIC narrative. Good job going full-tard.

Either way Goku still was able to fight evenly with Baby Buu but made it clear that Super buu was far too much for him. Semantics aside there is nothing that can be said to counter this

Originally posted by Galan007
Lol, you are the essence of idiot. This is the simplest of dialogue, yet you've managed to phuck it up.

The only way for Goku to destroy Kid Buu was by fully powering up. However, he'd "been trying to" fully power up/destroy Buu, but doing so required a solid minute of 'charging'--and Buu never gave him that much time. IF Goku could have reached FPSSJ3, he would've destroyed Kid Buu "in an INSTANT."

At least I know for sure that you truly ARE incapable of comprehending BASIC narrative. Good job going full-tard.

I don't... Do you literally have some kind of mental impairment?

NOWHERE IN THE ENTIRE SCAN, did Vegeta say the words charging, or powering up.

You're literally sitting there lying about the scan that's been posted for everyone to see. It's very clear what the scan is saying, no matter how much you lie and try to change that.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
I can link the scene if you want.

Goku says, SPECIFICALLY, "What?! He's getting stronger instead of weaker!", as he was turning from Super Buu into Kid Buu.
VUeH5zBNffM

@ 1:43

Vegeta: How could he be increasing instead of decreasing?!

Goku: If this keeps up, he's gonna be stronger than he was before!

Vegeta: Yes, I know.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
VUeH5zBNffM

@ 1:43

Vegeta: How could he be increasing instead of decreasing?!

Goku: If this keeps up, he's gonna be stronger than he was before!

Vegeta: Yes, I know.

Thanks. I was gonna post it, but I honestly couldn't find it at all, lol.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
VUeH5zBNffM

@ 1:43

Vegeta: How could he be increasing instead of decreasing?!

Goku: If this keeps up, he's gonna be stronger than he was before!

Vegeta: Yes, I know.

buff buu was stronger than kid buu

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
I don't... Do you literally have some kind of mental impairment?

NOWHERE IN THE ENTIRE SCAN, did Vegeta say the words charging, or powering up.

You're literally sitting there lying about the scan that's been posted for everyone to see. It's very clear what the scan is saying, no matter how much you lie and try to change that.


here it is right here
http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3160-13/dragon-ball/chapter-511.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3161-1/dragon-ball/chapter-512.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNuXZR-pGzg at 41:48


they talk about goku trying to reach full power ssj3

Originally posted by chasedown
here it is right here
http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3160-13/dragon-ball/chapter-511.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3161-1/dragon-ball/chapter-512.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNuXZR-pGzg at 41:48


they talk about goku trying to reach full power ssj3


lol well that settles it

No it doesn't. He'll post again. Tis his way.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
I don't... Do you literally have some kind of mental impairment?

NOWHERE IN THE ENTIRE SCAN, did Vegeta say the words charging, or powering up.

You're literally sitting there lying about the scan that's been posted for everyone to see. It's very clear what the scan is saying, no matter how much you lie and try to change that.

You're an idiot.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
He even gets me mad about DBZ sometimes. And I love DBZ. Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
He even gets me mad about DBZ sometimes. And I love DBZ. super buu will win this

Originally posted by chasedown
buff buu was stronger than kid buu



He was getting stronger during his transformation, not weaker. Stop, just stop.

Originally posted by carver9


He was getting stronger during his transformation, not weaker. Stop, just stop.



dude no he wasnt kid buu s the original buu the he absorbed southern supreme kai and got stronger thats were the buff version of buu came from.

once he absorbed the good natured grand supreme kai he got weaker because of the good nature decreasing his power this the fat buu version.


kid buu in no way shape or form is stronger than super buu its just buu's original more evil form

Originally posted by chasedown
dude no he wasnt kid buu s the original buu the he absorbed southern supreme kai and got stronger thats were the buff version of buu came from.

once he absorbed the good natured grand supreme kai he got weaker because of the good nature decreasing his power this the fat buu version.


kid buu in no way shape or form is stronger than super buu its just buu's original more evil form

Goku said he was getting STRONGER. Prove that he ended up getting weaker in the end during his transformation. I want to see a statement.

Lol...the good nature of the Ki held back his power, it didn't give him more power. Also, Kid Buu is more powerful than Fat Buu, the same Buu that absorbed one of the Ki's. Your argument is all over the place.

Originally posted by carver9
Goku said he was getting STRONGER. Prove that he ended up getting weaker in the end during his transformation. I want to see a statement.

Lol...the good nature of the Ki held back his power, it didn't give him more power. Also, Kid Buu is more powerful than Fat Buu, the same Buu that absorbed one of the Ki's. Your argument is all over the place.


i literally just said that fat buu was weaker than kid buu did you not read it.

kid buu is his original form, buff buu is when he absorbed southern supreme kai he got stronger from it as a result, he then he absorbed grand supreme kai and his pure heart turned him into the weaker fat buu.

goku cant beat super buu by himself....but he could def kill kid buu.


kid buu isnt the strongest buu but he is the most ruthless and evil

Originally posted by chasedown
i literally just said that fat buu was weaker than kid buu did you not read it.

kid buu is his original form, buff buu is when he absorbed southern supreme kai he got stronger from it as a result, he then he absorbed grand supreme kai and his pure heart turned him into the weaker fat buu.

goku cant beat super buu by himself....but he could def kill kid buu.


kid buu isnt the strongest buu but he is the most ruthless and evil

You're not getting it though. Fat Buu, the one who Vegeta fought WAS the absorption of both Southern Supreme Kai AND Grand Supreme Kai. That's what you are not getting. Fat Buu is the combination of both so with that said, wouldn't that make Fat Buu more powerful than buff Buu since Fat Buu IS all of the Kai's in one? Do you not get this?

So with that said, since you said Kid Buu is more powerful than Fat Buu, that would also make him more powerful than Buff Buu...correct?

Are we talking about this?:

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/42-509.0/compressed/tp_004.jpg

No, carver.

When Buu absorbed the Southern Kaioushin, he became more powerful--gaining power is, after all, the *only* reason Buu absorbs others. However, when Buu absorbed the Dai Kaioushin(and became Fat Buu), he "LOST POWER and became gentler", due to the Dai Kaioushin's overly peaceful and jolly demeanor/ki:
http://i.imgur.com/fB2H5yU.gif

That's why Fat Buu=the weakest version of Buu.



*EDIT*
BloodRain sniped me.

Originally posted by carver9
You're not getting it though. Fat Buu, the one who Vegeta fought WAS the absorption of both Southern Supreme Kai AND Grand Supreme Kai. That's what you are not getting. Fat Buu is the combination of both so with that said, wouldn't that make Fat Buu more powerful than buff Buu since Fat Buu IS all of the Kai's in one? Do you not get this?

So with that said, since you said Kid Buu is more powerful than Fat Buu, that would also make him more powerful than Buff Buu...correct?


no because the implication was that the grand supreme kai transformation made him weaker he didnt gain any strength from becoming fat buu

Originally posted by chasedown
no because the implication was that the grand supreme kai transformation made him weaker he didnt gain any strength from becoming fat buu

Good post Galan and Bloodrain.

Where during his transformation to Kid Buu did it say he got weaker? He was getting stronger, not weaker.

Goku outright stated that Super Buu was "FAR too strong" for him to defeat. Conversely, a less-than-full-power SSJ3 Goku contended with Kid Buu quite well until his stamina-limitations got the better of him, and could have killed Kid Buu "in an instant" had he been able to reach full power as a SSJ3. Had Kid Buu been more powerful than Super Buu, Goku would've been effortlessly trounced, full power or not--Goku himself outright stated as much.
ie. Super Buu>>>FPSSJ3 Goku>>>Kid Buu>Fat Buu.

Originally posted by Galan007
Goku outright stated that Super Buu was "FAR too strong" for him to defeat. Conversely, a less-than-full-power SSJ3 Goku contended with Kid Buu quite well until his stamina-limitations got the better of him, and could have killed Kid Buu "in an instant" had he been able to reach full power as a SSJ3. Had Kid Buu been more powerful than Super Buu, Goku would've been effortlessly trounced, full power or not--Goku himself outright stated as much.
ie. Super Buu>>>FPSSJ3 Goku>>>Kid Buu>Fat Buu.



lol i thought this was obvious apparently logic is some ppls strong suit

Originally posted by Galan007
Goku outright stated that Super Buu was "FAR too strong" for him to defeat. Conversely, a less-than-full-power SSJ3 Goku contended with Kid Buu quite well until his stamina-limitations got the better of him, and could have killed Kid Buu "in an instant" had he been able to reach full power as a SSJ3. Had Kid Buu been more powerful than Super Buu, Goku would've been effortlessly trounced, full power or not--Goku himself outright stated as much.
ie. Super Buu>>>FPSSJ3 Goku>>>Kid Buu>Fat Buu.

Goku was using his current form as an indication of power, not his super Saiyan 3 form. He didn't even attempt to power up to those levels the entire time he went against Super Buu, even during the time he was fighting him internally. He wasn't referencing his last form when he said that, he was talking about the form he was in which was true.

Also, Goku held back throughout the Buu saga. The ONLY time he cut lose was when he fought Kid Buu. He even held back against Fat Buu because he wanted others to take his place in the battle.

carver, that's idiotic. Goku couldn't even begin to compete with ANY version of Buu in his base level, so why in the hell would he use his base level as a gauge?

He was obviously referring to the *maximum* level of power he could generate(ie. SSJ3), as anything else didn't stand a chance in hell against Buu. Don't try and twist blatant/logical facts just to try and suit your argument.

Wasn't he Super Saiyan 2 when he fought Super Buu? Also, why didn't he transform to his final form when he was fighting Buu in his insides?

It was BASE LEVEL Goku who stated that Super Buu was still FAR more powerful than himself:
http://i.imgur.com/bOUsvwb.gif

Also, Goku didn't *need* to go SSJ3, because he and Vegeta never actually fought Buu while they were inside him. Quite a bit of dialogue was exchanged, and then right when Buu leapt toward them to begin his attack, Vegeta 'disconnected' Fat Buu from his being, which started Super Buu's catastrophic regression into Kid Buu:
http://i.imgur.com/yFRLO0o.gif
http://i.imgur.com/WhwDat8.gif
http://i.imgur.com/du7U9AI.gif
http://i.imgur.com/CduaXXW.gif
http://i.imgur.com/ER7Yvvh.gif
http://i.imgur.com/3hkzaQo.gif
http://i.imgur.com/YqGTtvE.gif
http://i.imgur.com/QzZGxPY.gif
http://i.imgur.com/5ujTPHk.gif

So again: Super Buu>>>FPSSJ3 Goku>>>Kid Buu>Fat Buu.

Originally posted by carver9
Goku was using his current form as an indication of power, not his super Saiyan 3 form. He didn't even attempt to power up to those levels the entire time he went against Super Buu, even during the time he was fighting him internally. He wasn't referencing his last form when he said that, he was talking about the form he was in which was true.

Also, Goku held back throughout the Buu saga. The ONLY time he cut lose was when he fought Kid Buu. He even held back against Fat Buu because he wanted others to take his place in the battle.

that literally makes no sense whatsoever