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The prodigal Skywalker warrior vs the Dark-side incarnate.
Darth Caedus is in his most powerful form. Vitiate is from Revan.

All out with no prep/nexus?

Caedus stomps.

Originally posted by Trocity
All out with no prep/nexus?

Caedus stomps.
Vitiate has same prep/nexus he had against Revan.

Vitiate has immense hype, but judging from Revan's performance Caedus should be able to win.

Vitiate.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Vitiate has immense hype, but judging from Revan's performance Caedus should be able to win.

Actually, judging from Revan's performance, Vitiate takes this. Read the novel more carefully.

BTW, Vitiate had no prep against Revan.

Originally posted by Sinious
BTW, Vitiate had no prep against Revan.
Originally posted by Sinious
Read the novel more carefully.

Revan himself said that he had no chance against Vitiate in one on one for long.

@Ant

Remind me where it was stated in the novel please?

The entire plan was to sneak into Emperor's chambers and they got caught at the entrance of the throne room.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan himself said that he had no chance against Vitiate in one on one for long.
Revan also said resurrecting the Emperor is the best way to kill him. Your point?

Originally posted by Sinious
@Ant

Remind me where it was stated in the novel please?

The entire plan was to sneak into Emperor's chambers and they got caught at the entrance of the throne room.
Novel states if they are attacked by Imperial Guards, Vitiate will have time to prepare. They get attacked by Imperial Guards.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Novel states if they are attacked by Imperial Guards, Vitiate will have time to prepare. They get attacked by Imperial Guards.

Oh so like 90 seconds of prep. That must have made him more powerful than he normally would have been against Revan lol

I doubt that he even cared since he didnt even see them as a legit threat in the beginning.

And again, almost every big fight involved prep if you approach them with this logic.

Vitiate didn't even get out of his chair. Prep, lol.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan also said resurrecting the Emperor is the best way to kill him. Your point?

This was before he was nuts.

Given Vitiate's command of the Force, that is ample time to summon his power, considering the entire Revan vs Vitiate fight was less then 30 seconds.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Given Vitiate's command of the Force, that is ample time to summon his power, considering the entire Revan vs Vitiate fight was less then 30 seconds.

Wasn't it stated to have been just "a few" second long?

Originally posted by Sinious
And again, almost every big fight involved prep if you approach them with this logic.

But everyone knows Vitiate is weak as a kitten if he can't do prep....

Yep. The Revan vs Vitiate fight was extremely short... a testament to both Revan's and Vitiate's speed abilities.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But everyone knows Vitiate is weak as a kitten if he can't do prep....

I doubt that Ant thinks(at least claims) that like the PT tards. He is just trying to find an excuse for Revan's performance against Vitiate.

Nothing to be ashamed of, Vitiate is just that good.

Lol. Revan did really good against Vitiate... like, good enough for sourcebooks to be in awe over how good he did.

I put Caedus and Revan on the same tier btw. So I imagine a similar fight occurring.

So your ranking is: Sidious>Bane>Youda>Zannah>Hero>Caedus>Revan>Anakin?

Revan became a lethal threat to him at some point of the fight and the reasons for that are pretty obvious.

I wonder how Caedus would fare against Vitiate's mental attacks. Not well I think.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So your ranking is: Sidious>Bane>Youda>Zannah>Hero>Caedus>Revan>Anakin?

I don't put Sidious above Bane.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't put Sidious above Bane.
Really?

Really.

I believe he has them as equals.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I wonder how Caedus would fare against Vitiate's mental attacks. Not well I think.

If the HoT is powerful enough, Caedus definitely is.


First, ew. Second, so you're saying Bane's entire point in existing was to fail?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
If the HoT is powerful enough, Caedus definitely is.



Oh sorry I didnt realize this was weakened Vitiate.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I believe he has them as equals.

I need a bigger facepalm Smiley.

I've lost so much respect for you, Nephthys.

Dang.

Prep doesn't mean shit.

Caedus.

Originally posted by Sinious
Oh sorry I didnt realize this was weakened Vitiate.






To my knowledge, Vitiate wasn't weakened during that fight. He was both amped by two Nexii and weakened due to his failed ritual attempts.

For the thread, since I'm not knowledgeable enough on Caedus, I'll see what the community decides on that. Entertain me.

He was most definitely weakened. That was kinda the whole point. Beyond that, the next expansion makes it clear that nobody during the TOR era can defeat a full powered Vitiate.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
To my knowledge, Vitiate wasn't weakened during that fight. He was both amped by two Nexii and weakened due to his failed ritual attempts.

For the thread, since I'm not knowledgeable enough on Caedus, I'll see what the community decides on that. Entertain me.

That nexus argument won't do you any good buddy. He was never stated to be amped where he was stated to be weakened multiple times in SWTOR. The entire point of that confrontation was to catch Vitiate while he was weakened.

Originally posted by Sinious
That nexus argument won't do you any good buddy. He was never stated to be amped where he was stated to be weakened multiple times in SWTOR. The entire point of that confrontation was to catch Vitiate while he was weakened.

I never claimed he wasn't weakened at all. I said that, again to my memory, he wasn't weakened during the fight itself due to Nexus amp. That's different.

Originally posted by Sinious
Oh sorry I didnt realize this was weakened Vitiate.

Vitiate doesn't mention him being weakened when he brought up his mind domination. I'm speaking solely on that.

Originally posted by Sinious
That nexus argument won't do you any good buddy. He was never stated to be amped where he was stated to be weakened multiple times in SWTOR. The entire point of that confrontation was to catch Vitiate while he was weakened.

Yep. The argument was stupid before and now, with the next expansion coming out, shown to be flat out wrong.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
I never claimed he wasn't weakened at all. I said that, again to my memory, he wasn't weakened during the fight itself due to Nexus amp. That's different.

and you have quote for this?

Vitiate almost never left Dromund Kaas so underrating his feats due to the nexus of that planet doesn't really make sense especially when the author never said anything about him being amped.

And he was weakened cause he tried to pull off possibly the hardest ritual ever and failed. Scourge's entire plan was built on this idea and nothing hints that he reached his full power back before the fight.

Originally posted by ares834
Yep. The argument was stupid before and now, with the next expansion coming out, shown to be flat out wrong.

Originally posted by Sinious
and you have quote for this?

Vitiate almost never left Dromund Kaas so underrating his feats due to the nexus of that planet doesn't really make sense especially when the author never said anything about him being amped.

And he was weakened cause he tried to pull off possibly the hardest ritual ever and failed. Scourge's entire plan was built on this idea and nothing hints that he reached his full power back before the fight.





My point was that his feats in that instance were neutral actually, because he was both amped, which is self-evident, and you not liking it I'm afraid doesn't change that fact, and weakened, which I never denied, so no, I wasn't lowballing him (at least not for how he performed during that fight).

I agree, however, that he didn't prepare for that fight, and I actually think that he lost because he underestimated Hot. After all, I don't think he'd take that much seriously an opponent he had already defeated when supported by other Jedi.

Originally posted by Sinious
and you have quote for this?

Vitiate almost never left Dromund Kaas so underrating his feats due to the nexus of that planet doesn't really make sense especially when the author never said anything about him being amped.

And he was weakened cause he tried to pull off possibly the hardest ritual ever and failed. Scourge's entire plan was built on this idea and nothing hints that he reached his full power back before the fight.

Nothing hints at it Sinny, but he was on a Nexus, that's all the proof we need tbh

Originally posted by Nargaroth
My point was that his feats in that instance were neutral actually, because he was both amped, which is self-evident, and you not liking it I'm afraid doesn't change that fact, and weakened, which I never denied, so no, I wasn't lowballing him (at least not for how he performed during that fight).

Do you have any evidence to support the idea that the amp completely offset his weakened state?

Originally posted by Nargaroth
My point was that his feats in that instance were neutral actually, because he was both amped, which is self-evident, and you not liking it I'm afraid doesn't change that fact, and weakened, which I never denied, so no, I wasn't lowballing him (at least not for how he performed during that fight).

I agree, however, that he didn't prepare for that fight, and I actually think that he lost because he underestimated Hot. After all, I don't think he'd take that much seriously an opponent he had already defeated when supported by other Jedi.

Nexus argument is another thing. My problem with it is when people claim he wouldn't be able to achieve what he can on Kaas.

But again, the main thing there is him being weakened. Act 2 ending HoT and act 3 ending HoT don't have THAT much power gap and we can see how he fares against the Emperor when he isn't weakened.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Nothing hints at it Sinny, but he was on a Nexus, that's all the proof we need tbh

No one's denying that buddy, but how much does the nexus effect his powers are unknown and I doubt it makes much difference if any.

Originally posted by ares834
Do you have any evidence to support the idea that the amp completely offset his weakened state?

Conclusive? Probably not, but he wasn't just on Kaas, he was in the Dark Temple, which was powerful enough to drive a thousand slaves mad, and was called by Scourge a place of "vast dark power". It's very hard to imagine that he would be weakened (at least by a lot) even after receiving such an amp.


Originally posted by Sinious
Nexus argument is another thing. My problem with it is when people claim he wouldn't be able to achieve what he can on Kaas.

But again, the main thing there is him being weakened. Act 2 ending HoT and act 3 ending HoT don't have THAT much power gap and we can see how he fares against the Emperor when he isn't weakened.

That's because a Nexus boosts a darksider's power, and that's why amped feats are generally not to be considered. At best, one could include feats that any Force user labelled as very powerful could do, like his Barrier showing against T3, or his feats against other darksiders who would also be amped, like Scourge.

Against the strike team, he most likely had preparation. There is no conclusive proof of that, but considering that he had all the time in the world to prepare while Hot was fighting Scourge, this seems very likely to me.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
Against the strike team, he most likely had preparation. There is no conclusive proof of that, but considering that he had all the time in the world to prepare while Hot was fighting Scourge, this seems very likely to me.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
Conclusive? Probably not, but he wasn't just on Kaas, he was in the Dark Temple, which was powerful enough to drive a thousand slaves mad, and was called by Scourge a place of "vast dark power". It's very hard to imagine that he would be weakened (at least by a lot) even after receiving such an amp.

It's very easily actually. Considering the vast discrepancy of power he displays at the end of Act 2 (which doesn't take place on Kaas) and the end of Act 3.

Originally posted by ares834
It's very easily actually. Considering the vast discrepancy of power he displays at the end of Act 2 (which doesn't take place on Kaas) and the end of Act 3.

Originally posted by ares834
He was most definitely weakened. That was kinda the whole point. Beyond that, the next expansion makes it clear that nobody during the TOR era can defeat a full powered Vitiate.



I don't think it's close, either.

Good thing Caedus isn't part of the TOR era

heh, which is why I specified that. TBH, I'm not sure who would win.

He who is far greater than even the Revanchrist shall prevail.

I do like how Ant made this Revan Vitiate. Since the full strength Sith Emperor from Swtor is positively godlike.

Lol@Caedus having a chance.

Without prep, Revan!Vitiate loses after a difficult fight. Peak!Vitiate, in turn, takes it with moderate difficulty imo.

Peak=prepped? Or SWTOR vitiate?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Peak=prepped? Or SWTOR vitiate?

Thats what I've wanted to ask too.

Full powered Vitiate dominates very powerful strike teams. Prepped Vitiate one-shots dark councils. There is a difference.

If Caedus can absorb firepower capable of destroying entire buildings with his bare hands, then he can most definitely handle anything Vitiate throws at him. Vitiate is an immense powerhouse but if his opponent can handle his powers and force a duel on him, he's SOL.

Caedus isn't getting mind-****ed by anyone.

I should probably bring up the fact that Caedus has some of the best shatterpoint feats in the lore.

His Telekinesis feats include rag-dolling Kyle Katarn and his allies with barely any movement. He also Force Waved Jaina whilst in a severely injured state and when you consider Jaina has tanked all kinds of crap with Tutaminis, this is damn impressive.

He has ignored a lightsaber through the stomach, loss of his fore-arm and more.

He has shown ability to cut others off from the Force and easily restore that connection repeatedly, with ease.

He has lightsaber feats superior to basically everyone vs Luke Skywalker, y'know the best duelist of all time.

He is confirmed to be 'much more powerful' than Darth Vader.

He has shown ability to battle meld seventeen Jedi simultaneously and act as a hive-mind, something that only the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, Luke Skywalker, has been able to surpass.

In-fact it is stated that the only person in the entire New Jedi Order that could defeat him was.... you guessed it, Luke Skywalker.

His farsight and precognition abilities are extreme, being able to set the parameter of the visions he has had and thus made them extremely accurate.

His feats with Force Body were exceptional, being able to use the Force in magnitudes not safe for his body, essentially over-loading it and carry on anyway.

Want to talk about illusions? his were nigh indistinguishable from reality, he used the minds of others to choose what they saw and they were so accurate it nearly fooled Luke, who was an unrivaled master of Mind Trick.

His ability to use Lightning was frightening indeed, causing his victims to simply be unidentifiable, charred beyond recognition, he had significant accuracy with his lightning as well, he could paralyze Jedi Masters with it, despite their use of a lightsaber at times.

He was also expert at cutting himself off from the Force to 'the last string', simply to avoid the senses of others.

With a lightsaber he was unrivaled beyond Luke himself as stated earlier, he has the best dueling feats against prime Luke.

Even Jaina was unable to take him on for long and she was considered a master combatant in not just sabers but pretty much every realm of fighting herself. She only killed him because he was almost completely focused on saving his daughter from the Imperial Nano virus.

Force Choking multiple Jedi at once should probably be brought up here as well.

His Speed feats are also ludicrous just to make that clear.

he has Tutaminis feats against the likes of Luke and weaponry meant to level blocks of buildings.

In sabers: Caedus roflstomps Vitiate.

In Force: Close but Caedus takes a slight edge.

Over-all: Caedus wins.

Maybe it's just because the balance of these forums rest on my opposing Neph wherever he goes, but I find Vitiate to be heavily overhyped and overrated, and his fanboys to be paranoid and delusional. Caedus wins, because he has good combat feats that do not occur while prepped in one of the most powerful nexuses in the galaxy.

I don't rule out the possibility of Vitiate winning, but he won't be mind-haxxing Caedus.

Originally posted by Skybreaker
Maybe it's just because the balance of these forums rest on my opposing Neph wherever he goes

Why? I thought we were cool.

I hate you.

http://replygif.net/i/127.gif

Neph is pretty terribad, yes.

But I'm so charming!

He's supposed to be one of the best debaters in KMC's 115 thousand hour history, but then he gets owned by Master Han in like one and a half posts.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Without prep, Revan!Vitiate loses after a difficult fight. Peak!Vitiate, in turn, takes it with moderate difficulty imo.
I'm not sure this is true even for prime Vitiate.

The problem with Vitiate IMHO is that force-wise he is in the same tier as RotS Sidious, Yoda, Plagueis or Caedus, but each of these guys vastly outstrip him as duelists.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan himself said that he had no chance against Vitiate in one on one for long.

There were without a doubt, points in the novel where Revan could've killed him, after using the force in his purest form, Revan could've thrown his damn lightsaber at him, boom, dead. Just as well, he did last longer then expected.

Yeah, cuz Vitiate has no chance against a freaking saber throw.

^'cept he actually didn't, 'cause Meetra disarmed him with one. Like, Vitiate really doesn't know how to use a lightsaber. At all. He's used to getting by on his immense strength in the Force and ability to prep like crazy by virtue of his nexus and his security system.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, cuz Vitiate has no chance against a freaking saber throw.

No, I'm not saying that, I'm saying that he was off guard long enough for Revan to put some action in. Revan is a genius tactician, but he chose literally the worst time to act like a dummy.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
No, I'm not saying that, I'm saying that he was off guard long enough for Revan to put some action in. Revan is a genius tactician, but he chose literally the worst time to act like a dummy.

Revan was also blown back by that attack. By the time he recovered and threw the saber Vitiate could have easily swatted it aside or blocked it with a shield.

Originally posted by Skybreaker
^'cept he actually didn't, 'cause Meetra disarmed him with one. Like, Vitiate really doesn't know how to use a lightsaber. At all. He's used to getting by on his immense strength in the Force and ability to prep like crazy by virtue of his nexus and his security system.

It should also be noted that by Scourge's premonitions, Revan + Scourge + Meetra stood a legitimate shot at defeating Vitiate, even though Scourge and Meetra were kind of trivial in power next to Revan at this point in time.

LMAO I still don't read anything relevant to Revan/Vitiate's power comparison in these arguments. Just hiding behind pure PIS. Vitiate could've sent his full powered lightning in the beginning and eliminate Revan right away if you wanna go there. Then he could easily kill Scourge and Meetra too.

Originally posted by Skybreaker
It should also be noted that by Scourge's premonitions, Revan + Scourge + Meetra stood a legitimate shot at defeating Vitiate, even though Scourge and Meetra were kind of trivial in power next to Revan at this point in time.

There's no dodging this.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
There's no dodging this.

Scourge was seeing every possible future that could happen. That Revan and co had won in some doesn't suggest they had a legitimate shot. Scourge himself says they would have lost.

A much more powerful Scourge doesn't dare face a weakened Vitiate in battle alongside the Hero because he knew he couldn't stand up to Vitiate.

BTW Ant, I think Plagueis should be another candidate for the second place.

Tulak Hord, Nihilus and Exar Kun are strong contenders as well, in some people's opinion.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Scourge was seeing every possible future that could happen. That Revan and co had won in some doesn't suggest they had a legitimate shot. Scourge himself says they would have lost.

A much more powerful Scourge doesn't dare face a weakened Vitiate in battle alongside the Hero because he knew he couldn't stand up to Vitiate.

Vitiate himself hesitates when confronted with all three. We've been over this. No one's saying that the odds were 50/50, but yes, they definitely had a shot at the title. It's all there, black and white, and your bias doesn't change that.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Vitiate himself hesitates when confronted with all three. We've been over this. No one's saying that the odds were 50/50, but yes, they definitely had a shot at the title. It's all there, black and white, and your bias doesn't change that.

Because he's evaluating them and doesn't know how good they are. If he'd have immediately blasted them Scourge and Meetra would have died. It doesn't mean anything.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Tulak Hord, Nihilus and Exar Kun are strong contenders as well, in some people's opinion.

Tulak Hord hasn't done shit, and I think, if anything, the TOR encyclopedia makes it clear that Vitiate is more powerful than any jedi or sith that has lived up to that point.

Plagueis is the best candidate for the number 2 spot, both for his feats and for the fact that the back of the hardcover clearly labels him the most powerful sith lord (presumably before Palpatine) that has ever lived.

Originally posted by Sinious
LMAO I still don't read anything relevant to Revan/Vitiate's power comparison in these arguments. Just hiding behind pure PIS. Vitiate could've sent his full powered lightning in the beginning and eliminate Revan right away if you wanna go there. Then he could easily kill Scourge and Meetra too.

Vitiate had to charge his lightning in order to overwhelm Revan, who, instead of taking advantage of Vitiate's initial predicament to charge forward and close the gap, just stood there and gave him time to get on his feet. Again, it was a pretty pathetic moment from someone that was otherwise known for his tactical insights.

Revan specifically says he couldn't make it to Vitiate in time.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Because he's evaluating them and doesn't know how good they are. If he'd have immediately blasted them Scourge and Meetra would have died. It doesn't mean anything.

This begs for proof. Vitiate is an extraordinarily powerful adept with a ridiculous home turf advantage, he's encountered Scourge before {psychically raped him, remember?}, and just went toe-to-toe with Revan moments before. The only "unknown" element is the Exile.



So, to recap:

The presence of the Exile alone is enough to give Vitiate pause
Scourge sees multiple futures where Revan is triumphant and never gives any suggestion that this outcome is some sort of insignificant minority
Scourge speculates that Vitiate might be stalling for backup
Vitiate himself doesn't contradict Revan's claim that the three of them can take him
Scourge admits that there's no way of determining which future is the case, suggesting a relative parity in odds of outcome


That he has an epiphany that the one destined to defeat Vitiate is another Jedi Knight does not preclude the possibility that Revan, the Exile, and Scourge were powerful enough to defeat Vitiate anymore than Anakin's destiny to kill Sidious means that Anakin alone is capable of defeating him.

It's all here, Neph.

Originally posted by Skybreaker
Vitiate had to charge his lightning in order to overwhelm Revan, who, instead of taking advantage of Vitiate's initial predicament to charge forward and close the gap, just stood there and gave him time to get on his feet. Again, it was a pretty pathetic moment from someone that was otherwise known for his tactical insights.

You keep assuming that it takes like 2 thousand years for Vitiate to charge his attack. Whenever he charged his attacks, he managed to unleash them before his opponent could reach him in time which suggests that he is fast enough to unleash devastating attacks. Your desire to lowball him due to this doesn't mean anything. Besides, this:

Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan specifically says he couldn't make it to Vitiate in time.

After Vitiate had already sprung to his feat, before which Revan had just been standing there.




Originally posted by Sinious
You keep assuming that it takes like 2 thousand years for Vitiate to charge his attack. Whenever he charged his attacks, he managed to unleash them before his opponent could reach him in time which suggests that he is fast enough to unleash devastating attacks. Your desire to lowball him due to this doesn't mean anything.

It's not as though he always conveniently encounters his enemies in large rooms with forewarning of their arrival, usually resides in a DS nexus, and typically stalls for time with speeches, or anything.

@Tempest

None of that suggests that this is due to overall power. Revan by himself managed to be a lethal threat to Vitiate no one's denying that but its more due to Vitiate's overconfidence and perhaps due to Revan temporarily reaching a more pure level in the force.

Originally posted by Skybreaker

It's not as though he always conveniently encounters his enemies in large rooms with forewarning of their arrival, usually resides in a DS nexus, and typically stalls for time with speeches, or anything.

Wow so much BS in one post. I somehow respect S66's or Tempest's arguments on Vitiate(at least when they don't just rely on nexus argument) but you just keep treating Vitiate differently in every argument. Does anyone who has a conversation before a fight tries to stall? Does every combatant who knows the opponent's coming has prep? No. Its just Vitiate for some reason.

Originally posted by Sinious
@Tempest

None of that suggests that this is due to overall power. Revan by himself managed to be a lethal threat to Vitiate no one's denying that but its more due to Vitiate's overconfidence and perhaps due to Revan temporarily reaching a more pure level in the force.

Ah, we've gone from Revan would be stomped by Vitiate to an admission that he was "a lethal threat" to Vitiate. Progress! excellent

But yes it most certainly does suggest power and skill. Revan even boasts that united they are "stronger" than he, which Vitiate takes care not to arrogantly contradict.

Unless your argument is that, in the hypothetical ensuing fight, Vitiate would unlearn the lesson he just experienced from tangling with Revan and fight stupidly and arrogantly against all three.

Which is contradicted by the fact that the passage makes it very clear that Vitiate is playing super-cautious now.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
This begs for proof. Vitiate is an extraordinarily powerful adept with a ridiculous home turf advantage, he's encountered Scourge before {psychically raped him, remember?}, and just went toe-to-toe with Revan moments before. The only "unknown" element is the Exile.

Yeah and that's why he hesitated.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
So, to recap:

The presence of the Exile alone is enough to give Vitiate pause

Nyriss, who was infinitely less powerful than Vitiate, one-shot the Exile easily. She gave Vitiate pause only because of he didn't know her. Seriously, Vitiate can easily one-shot both Meetra and Scourge. They only serve as distractions for him and possibly letting Revan get in close enough. Still a highly remote chance though.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Scourge sees multiple futures where Revan is triumphant and never gives any suggestion that this outcome is some sort of insignificant minority

Which doesn't preclude it from being one.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Scourge speculates that Vitiate might be stalling for backup

Hurr durr.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Vitiate himself doesn't contradict Revan's claim that the three of them can take him

Because he doesn't know how good Meetra and Scourge are.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Scourge admits that there's no way of determining which future is the case, suggesting a relative parity in odds of outcome


He later says that they would have lost regardless. And in TOR he doesn't dare face a weakened Vitiate alongside the Hero despite being far greater than he was in Revan.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That he has an epiphany that the one destined to defeat Vitiate is another Jedi Knight does not preclude the possibility that Revan, the Exile, and Scourge were powerful enough to defeat Vitiate anymore than Anakin's destiny to kill Sidious means that Anakin alone is capable of defeating him.

It's all here, Neph.

The possibility did exist, but Scourge and Meetra were so far below Vitiate that theres little chance of them effecting the outcome much and Revan obviously couldn't take Vitiate on for very long, particularly with his injury. A sensible evaluation of the odds shows them to be highly in Vitiate's favor.

Originally posted by Sinious
Wow so much BS in one post. I somehow respect S66's or Tempest's arguments on Vitiate(at least when they don't just rely on nexus argument) but you just keep treating Vitiate differently in every argument. Does anyone who has a conversation before a fight tries to stall? Does every combatant who knows the opponent's coming has prep? No. Its just Vitiate for some reason.

Yeah, let's not change the subject here. We were specifically talking about how much of Vitiate's domination relies on his ability to charge his attacks. Notably, it's made quite clear in the novel that Revan was forced to try to take a charged blast from Vitiate because the room was too big and he wouldn't have been able to close the distance in time. Now, explain to me how my pointing out the spatial dimensions of Vitiate's battles is somehow a red herring when this is precisely the reason why he was able to initially overpower Revan. Re-simulate that battle where Palpatine encounters Windu and co., and Vitiate likely dies.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah and that's why he hesitated.

So assessing the Exile's Force strength and relative threat level was such a long, arduous mental process that Vitiate did not dare act until Scourge knifed her in the back?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nyriss, who was infinitely less powerful than Vitiate, one-shot the Exile easily. She gave Vitiate pause only because of he didn't know her. Seriously, Vitiate can easily one-shot both Meetra and Scourge. They only serve as distractions for him and possibly letting Revan get in close enough. Still a highly remote chance though.

Cool story. Vitiate's behavior begs to differ and only serves as proof that Nyriss's standing next to Vitiate is hyperbolic in the extreme. Otherwise, if Vitiate could "easily one-shot" both Meetra and Scourge, he'd have done so rather than wait to act until Scourge betrayed the Jedi.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Which doesn't preclude it from being one.

That's your burden to prove, especially when the text suggests otherwise.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Hurr durr.

Without question, this is the smartest part of your entire post.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Because he doesn't know how good Meetra and Scourge are.

No, the text says that he had to evaluate the strength of his "new foe." Foe being singular, referring to the Exile. He knew well enough how powerful Scourge was.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He later says that they would have lost regardless.

Perhaps because he wants to justify his decision? Or perhaps because Revan was not destined to defeat Vitiate? Either way, that has no bearing on the trio's power vis a vis Vitiate's.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And in TOR he doesn't dare face a weakened Vitiate alongside the Hero despite being far greater than he was in Revan.

Aren't you the one who claims Vitiate is also vastly improved by then?

Originally posted by Nephthys
The possibility did exist, but Scourge and Meetra were so far below Vitiate that theres little chance of them effecting the outcome much and Revan obviously couldn't take Vitiate on for very long, particularly with his injury. A sensible evaluation of the odds shows them to be highly in Vitiate's favor.

The text clearly indicates otherwise. And no one claimed the odds were 50/50 or that Vitiate didn't have the advantage in outcome. The bottom line, though, is that you're grossly overstating his odds. That's just a fact, per the book.

Originally posted by Skybreaker
Yeah, let's not change the subject here. We were specifically talking about how much of Vitiate's domination relies on his ability to charge his attacks. Notably, it's made quite clear in the novel that Revan was forced to try to take a charged blast from Vitiate because the room was too big and he wouldn't have been able to close the distance in time. Now, explain to me how my pointing out the spatial dimensions of Vitiate's battles is somehow a red herring when this is precisely the reason why he was able to initially overpower Revan. Re-simulate that battle where Palpatine encounters Windu and co., and Vitiate likely dies.

Revan had also charged up his power in preperation for defending against the attack, so don't act as if Vitiate was the only one doing that.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan had also charged up his power in preperation for defending against the attack, so don't act as if Vitiate was the only one doing that.

Vitiate started first.

So he had a quarter of a second of extra prep? Ooooh, big deal.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Ah, we've gone from Revan would be stomped by Vitiate to an admission that he was "a lethal threat" to Vitiate. Progress! excellent



I've been saying this for the last 3 months.



Like you said, it would be absurd to see Vitiate keep his arrogant attitude going so why would he care to contradict Revan's claim? He was alerted at that point. The jedi he sent away years ago returned with an other jedi, managed to sneak into his chambers and convince a lord of his empire to betray him. He even got psychically hurt a few seconds ago. Why would he not worry about the situation he is in especially since how much he is afraid to die? There are many factors here and most of them are irrelevant to how powerful the characters were. For example, why did Sidious try to run from Yoda? The context and the character of the combatant is very important in these scenarios.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So he had a quarter of a second of extra prep? Ooooh, big deal.

On a dark side nexus bro. Hell, on two dark side nexuses. He was nexus squared.

Originally posted by Sinious
For example, why did Sidious try to run from Yoda?

Because that was a fight that Sidious stood a very serious chance of losing. Just like Vitiate with Revan, Scourge, and the Exile.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
On a dark side nexus bro. Hell, on two dark side nexuses. He was nexus squared.

Pretty sure it was only one possible one. They didn't fight in the Dark Temple, they fought in his throne room which wasn't noted as a nexus.

damn mmm

Originally posted by Skybreaker
Yeah, let's not change the subject here. We were specifically talking about how much of Vitiate's domination relies on his ability to charge his attacks. Notably, it's made quite clear in the novel that Revan was forced to try to take a charged blast from Vitiate because the room was too big and he wouldn't have been able to close the distance in time.

Yeah, I'd avoid going there as well since it will automatically refute your arguments.



I'm sticking with the text. You're the one making claims and assumptions. You're the one who needs to explain and prove that Vitiate needed the circumstances he was in to achieve victory against his enemies.


The strike team was fairly close to him. Vitiate even got closer to them before the fight. It didnt stop him from dominating them with his FLS.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan had also charged up his power in preperation for defending against the attack, so don't act as if Vitiate was the only one doing that.

If charging up your tutanimus (as if you could actually do that, beyond merely bracing yourself) were proportionally effective to charging up an offensive attack, Vitiate would've been better off attacking from the outset. It obviously doesn't work that way.

But as usual, this has absolutely nothing to do with what was being discussed, which is Revan's loss coming largely from his tactical blunder and the setting of the confrontation. Where Palpatine encountered Windu, Vitiate would have died.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
damn mmm

When I win the other argument will my victory be squared I wonder. HAHAHAAHAHAHAHHA!

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Because that was a fight that Sidious stood a very serious chance of losing. Just like Vitiate with Revan, Scourge, and the Exile.

Vitiate didnt try to run from them so no, not like Vitiate.

Originally posted by Sinious
Vitiate didnt try to run from them so no, not like Vitiate.

Sidious didn't require outside intervention to attack, either.

There's no getting around this, Sin. I've got you and Neph by the balls. Time to man up and concede.

Originally posted by Sinious
Yeah, I'd avoid going there as well since it will automatically refute your arguments.


Avoid going where? Your whole b*tching reply was just a cleverly worded well-poisoning, where you try to complain that I treat Vitiate differently from other combatants and do anything but actually address the point, ie, that Vitiate's ability to charge uber-force blasts is contingent on his environment.



Yeah, see, I just did "explain and prove that Vitiate needed" those circumstances, and you reply simply by demanding that I explain and prove that Vitiate needed those circumstances, instead of, you know, actually addressing my argument. It's a rhetorical evasion, and nobody's falling for it.



Yeah, and it's not as though Caedus is massively superior to anyone on the strike team, or anything. But way to dodge the point again; he needed to charge his attack to overpower Revan, and he will need to do so to overpower Caedus, but he won't be able to do so because Caedus is ridiculously fast. Vitiate's ability to overpower strike teams is irrelevant.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
So assessing the Exile's Force strength and relative threat level was such a long, arduous mental process that Vitiate did not dare act until Scourge knifed her in the back?

As you said, Vitiate was being super cautious. Plus Revan stood up and Scourge joined them immediately.

Also, Vitiate's behavior could just be explained by bad writing and PIS.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Cool story. Vitiate's behavior begs to differ and only serves as proof that Nyriss's standing next to Vitiate is hyperbolic in the extreme. Otherwise, if Vitiate could "easily one-shot" both Meetra and Scourge, he'd have done so rather than wait to act until Scourge betrayed the Jedi.

How can it be hyperbolic in the extreme when we have a direct comparison between her lightning and Vitiate's that proves that Vitiate is actually much more powerful than her? Regardless are you seriously denying that Vitiate could have one-shot Scourge and Meetra despite a less powerful Sith doing so? Nyriss one-shot them both. It's obvious that Vitiate is capable of replicating that, if not one-shotting them both at the same time.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's your burden to prove, especially when the text suggests otherwise.

I've already proven that Meetra and Scourge were insects to Vitiate. So my case has been made.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
No, the text says that he had to evaluate the strength of his "new foe." Foe being singular, referring to the Exile. He knew well enough how powerful Scourge was.

Scourge hadn't reached them at that point. Given that Vitiate addresses him just after Scourge does though, I think it's likely he was considering him at the time. He'd not seen him in action or properly read his mind, so his evaluation of Scourge may have been vague.

Regardless though, Vitiate's behaviour is explained beyond fear of them.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Perhaps because he wants to justify his decision? Or perhaps because Revan was not destined to defeat Vitiate? Either way, that has no bearing on the trio's power vis a vis Vitiate's.

Perhaps perhaps perhaps. Scourge states the outcome was inevitable and that they would have lost regardless. That's a fact. If the trio had worked together perfectly to pool their power into resisting him they might have had a shot, but that would still require Vitiate to fight poorly and not try to attack them individually or do anything else. I've never denied that possibility. Just that it's highly remote.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Aren't you the one who claims Vitiate is also vastly improved by then?

And vastly weakened. And Scourge would be benefiting from the Dark Temple just as much as him in a fight.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The text clearly indicates otherwise. And no one claimed the odds were 50/50 or that Vitiate didn't have the advantage in outcome. The bottom line, though, is that you're grossly overstating his odds. That's just a fact, per the book.

Nah. Scourge and Meetra were far, far below him and Revan had been firmly established as no match for him. Vitiate had a much greater chance of victory than they did.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
So, to recap:

The presence of the Exile alone is enough to give Vitiate pause
Scourge sees multiple futures where Revan is triumphant and never gives any suggestion that this outcome is some sort of insignificant minority
Scourge speculates that Vitiate might be stalling for backup
Vitiate himself doesn't contradict Revan's claim that the three of them can take him
Scourge admits that there's no way of determining which future is the case, suggesting a relative parity in odds of outcome


That he has an epiphany that the one destined to defeat Vitiate is another Jedi Knight does not preclude the possibility that Revan, the Exile, and Scourge were powerful enough to defeat Vitiate anymore than Anakin's destiny to kill Sidious means that Anakin alone is capable of defeating him.

It's all here, Neph.

You didn't actually refute any of this.

Originally posted by Nephthys
How does it obviously not work that way? I don't see why it wouldn't be proportionately effective.

Because we clearly see that Vitiate's non-charged attacks couldn't overpower Revan. this suggests it does not work that way. Duh?

Vitiate's half-serious attacks.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You didn't actually refute any of this.

Nor you, my points. Vitiate had been established as so far above Meetra and Scourge that he could easily chump them. And he'd established comfortable dominance over Revan. The odds were ever in his favor.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111123012923/thehungergames/images/0/00/2011-11-15-10-38-33-5-katniss-delivers-a-farewell-salute-this-gesture-i.jpeg

Peace out, bro.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nor you, my points.

That was a very candid admission; I appreciate it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate had been established as so far above Meetra and Scourge that he could easily chump them. And he'd established comfortable dominance over Revan. The odds were ever in his favor.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111123012923/thehungergames/images/0/00/2011-11-15-10-38-33-5-katniss-delivers-a-farewell-salute-this-gesture-i.jpeg

Peace out, bro.





No one claimed that the odds weren't favorable to him. But the indisputable fact remains that they stood a decent shot of taking him down.

You need to raise your game, bro.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That was a very candid admission; I appreciate it.







No one claimed that the odds weren't favorable to him. But the indisputable fact remains that they stood a decent shot of taking him down.

You need to raise your game, bro.

Well actually I think Ant's suggested they weren't, but I never said you had suggested such, I just wanted to make a cool line.

The only thing we're arguing about is how decent a shot they had. You haven't shown anything that indicates why they would have a decent shot, since two of the fighters were laughably outclassed by him and Revan was injured and outmatched. Any indication they did have a good shot was just poorly thought out hogwash on Drews part.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sidious didn't require outside intervention to attack, either.

There's no getting around this, Sin. I've got you and Neph by the balls. Time to man up and concede.

And Vitiate did?

What kind of concession do you want exactly? I never said the trio didnt stood a chance. As Neph said, Vitiate is well above Revan and the other two are non factors. I wouldn't tag their chances as "decent".

Originally posted by Skybreaker
Avoid going where? Your whole b*tching reply was just a cleverly worded well-poisoning, where you try to complain that I treat Vitiate differently from other combatants and do anything but actually address the point, ie, that Vitiate's ability to charge uber-force blasts is contingent on his environment.

Yeah, see, I just did "explain and prove that Vitiate needed" those circumstances, and you reply simply by demanding that I explain and prove that Vitiate needed those circumstances, instead of, you know, actually addressing my argument. It's a rhetorical evasion, and nobody's falling for it.


You feel like I'm bitching cause I'm exposing your biased opinions and double standards?

Well, you've suggested things. You haven't proven anything still. Its your opinion that Vitiate required that environment to be able to dominate Revan. Perhaps it made it a bit easier for him to take Revan out with his lightning that fast, but nothing suggests that he wouldn't be able to pull off a win with his regular lightning. Besides, Revan eventually got pretty close to him.




He isnt MASSIVELY superior to ACT 2 HoT. I havent dodged anything. Vitiate charges up his attacks sometimes. Big deal. He can do it fast enough to keep his enemies at a distance and no Vitiate's strike team domination is surely not irrelevant. Has the OP said anything like "the opponents start with a 1 meter distance" or something like that?Cause just a bit of distance is all he needs buddy.

And of course, Caedus turning it into a saber duel doesn't end it automatically. Vitiate has managed to duel very capable combatants and he even when weakened can push the opponent back at a distance again.

Caedus is solidly above any HoT, though, unless they get more feats in the near future, which I doubt will be anytime soon.

Dunno, Act III HoT did resist Sel Makor in the heart of his power. And Sel Makor is a godlike entity capable of unleashing planet-wide annihilation.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate's half-serious attacks.


...lol yeah, keep grasping at straws Neph.

Originally posted by Sinious
You feel like I'm bitching cause I'm exposing your biased opinions and double standards?


You've "exposed" nothing; you've flung out ridiculous accusations in place of actually debating the subject matter.



^my point exactly. You decide to ignore all supporting logic and evidence provided for an assertion by just smugly declaring that nobody's provided any supporting logic or evidence for said assertion.



Oh please, what are we, kindergarteners again? My "opinion" has been supported with warrants that you've decided to pretend do not exist. Go back and actually address them, and quit playing this game.



Oh, nothing? Nothing but the fact that Revan knocked his regular lightning back at him, and put him on his ass with it?



Because you say so?



You've tried to.



It took him enough time for Revan to deactivate his lightsaber, hold his hands in front of him and gather his own energy.



Ooohhh, he's managed to duel "very capable combatants"!

Emperor Vitiate solidly

Originally posted by Skybreaker
You've "exposed" nothing; you've flung out ridiculous accusations in place of actually debating the subject matter.

^my point exactly. You decide to ignore all supporting logic and evidence provided for an assertion by just smugly declaring that nobody's provided any supporting logic or evidence for said assertion.

Oh please, what are we, kindergarteners again? My "opinion" has been supported with warrants that you've decided to pretend do not exist. Go back and actually address them, and quit playing this game.

Oh, nothing? Nothing but the fact that Revan knocked his regular lightning back at him, and put him on his ass with it?

Because you say so?

You've tried to.

It took him enough time for Revan to deactivate his lightsaber, hold his hands in front of him and gather his own energy.

Ooohhh, he's managed to duel "very capable combatants"!

Keep repeating the same thing as long as you want. I've already explained to you why Vitiate isnt as desperate as you think. His actions against the strike team is all you need to know.

After Hot defeats Scourge and Braga addresses the Emperor, he jumps down and gets closer to them. When the strike team starts to approach him, he casts an FLS INSTANTLY and it is powerful enough to back off the powerful members of the group like HoT and Tol Braga and stun the inferior ones. Its a massive aoe attack inflicted on several combatants and it was summoned without charging. After keeping them where he wants them, he charges a new attack while he simultaneously keeps on feeding the FLS with more energy. After he unleashes the second attack, the group is done.

There is the proof @ 9:00

He could've stayed up there on his throne and cast a force lightning from there while they run to him. Its the perfect set-up for him yet he decides to confront them from a closer distance and is able to instantly cast an FLS strong enough to achieve what he wanted against a challenging opposition.

He can unleash a more concentrated version of his FLS on Caedus and do the exact same to him unless you think Caedus is fast enough to come closer to Vitiate and cut him down before Vitiate can react. If that's the case, tell me now so I don't waste anymore of my time here.


"Your wanking is insignificant. Let your concession be the same."

Originally posted by Sinious
His actions against the strike team is all you need to know.


What the hell do the actions of a more powerful TOR Vitiate against the strike team have to do with his performance against Revan? What the hell does it have to do with his hypothetical performance against Caedus? Your reply once again conveniently ignores Vitiate's need to gather his energy to overpower Revan by trying to appeal to his performance against an assortment of less powerful individuals, and then arbitrarily suggest that Caedus would fall to the same fate. You can try to deflect the point of the matter with these smokescreens all you want; at the end of the day, this battle ends with Vitiate's head on the floor.

Originally posted by Sinious
since its obvious that Vitiate didnt double his power after Revan

You try to sidestep your way through the fact that we're comparing two different Vitiates by positing an extreme strawman (doubling his power!) and then dismissing it out of your own incredulity. Nobody's falling for it. Try again.



A more challenging opposition? Says who?



That wasn't the point. The point was that Vitiate needed to charge his power against Revan.



Yeah, let's pretend bolding a few vague words and phrases constitutes an argument for you, and thanks for conceding that Vitiate owes his victory over Revan to the size of the battlefield. Let's just pretend that, were Vitiate to try this against Caedus, the latter would have absolutely no options but to stand there and try to absorb the attack, as though he has no lightsaber or lightning of his own. I would have guessed that Vitiate would get a lightsaber thrown through his gut were he to try this, though I'm obviously missing something important.

Originally posted by Skybreaker
A more challenging opposition? Says who?

The Jedi Strike Team > The Imperial Strike Team that beat Revan.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Jedi Strike Team > The Imperial Strike Team that beat Revan.

Let's pretend that Revan would be at full power after having been confined and tortured for several centuries.

Lets pretend that he didn't have plenty of time to recover and the greatest means to do so available.

Plus he had been confined and tortured in Revan too and was fine.

Note that during the Foundry fight majority of it was only Dark!Revan (the guy who took on Vitiate and the Dread Master's full force), who was also in a constant mental war with Light!Revan. Despite this, it is stated he nearly almost killed the Strike Team. Highly impressive.

Nah.

Please enlighten me where anything I said was not true, because everything I said was directly from the new expansion's dialogue.

Light!Revan: "You've been so blinded by your unchecked rage, your thirst for vengeance, that you could not see the truth." />
Light!Revan: "Now that your power has subsided, I may finally confront you. I only hope you will listen." />
TOR Protag: "You're both Revan." />
Light!Revan: "Yes, though neither of us is truly Revan." />
TOR Protag: "What exactly is happening here?" />
Light!Revan: "When I died, I had come to terms. I was ready to become one with the Force. But I soon realized that was only what part of me wanted." />
Dark!Revan!: "I cast you out! It was the only way to go on--to remain and finish what we started! You were holding me back!" />

Theres no mention of a mental war before that point to my knowledge.

Originally posted by Skybreaker


Yeah, let's pretend bolding a few vague words and phrases constitutes an argument for you, and thanks for conceding that Vitiate owes his victory over Revan to the size of the battlefield. Let's just pretend that, were Vitiate to try this against Caedus, the latter would have absolutely no options but to stand there and try to absorb the attack, as though he has no lightsaber or lightning of his own. I would have guessed that Vitiate would get a lightsaber thrown through his gut were he to try this, though I'm obviously missing something important.

Wow dude serisouly, bravo. You've found a lame ass excuse to ignore every detailed feat I've given you and then blamed me with playing with words and avoiding the subject with each your post where that is exactly what you did. I've given you several accomplishments of Vitiate to prove my point to you were all you did was kept on yapping about your assumptions that have no value here.

I'm done trying to convince someone who holds his own assumptions higher than actual showings.

Even Carthage wasn't this bad

Originally posted by Sinious
I've given you several accomplishments of Vitiate to prove my point

Your ability to link to youtube videos (which you, in your intellectual limitations, think constitutes "detailed" evidence) does not f*cking matter when those videos have nothing to do with the points of contention. Linking to a more powerful Vitiate dealing with a Jedi strike team has nothing to do with his performance against Revan, and it has nothing to do with his ability to face Caedus. That you try to reply to the particular criticisms of your argument by vaguely waving your hand about assumptions and whatever is just evidence that you're a f*cking idiot who probably lives in his mother's basement. Who knew?

(Seriously, you just vaguely wave your hand and assume that the Vitiate of the revan novel and the Vitiate of TOR are identical in power, and then you vaguely wave your hand and claim that I am making assumptions here? How f*cking pathetic is that?)

Originally posted by Skybreaker
Your ability to link to youtube videos (which you, in your intellectual limitations, think constitutes "detailed" evidence) does not f*cking matter when those videos have nothing to do with the points of contention. Linking to a more powerful Vitiate dealing with a Jedi strike team has nothing to do with his performance against Revan, and it has nothing to do with his ability to face Caedus. That you try to reply to the particular criticisms of your argument by vaguely waving your hand about assumptions and whatever is just evidence that

(Seriously, you just vaguely wave your hand and assume that the Vitiate of the revan novel and the Vitiate of TOR are identical in power, and then you vaguely wave your hand and claim that I am making assumptions here? How f*cking pathetic is that?)

Calm down pumpkin, I didnt mean to hurt your tiny feelings.

I was talking about the the author of the novel REVAN who freakin wrote the fight between Vitiate and Revan and who specifically stated that Vitiate was fast enough to unleash an attack powerful enough to defeat Revan before he could reach him. Oh btw, there isnt a single time where he says anything about a long ass charging there. Read the text I've posted again, if you're capable of reading of course.



You'd be surprised where I live buddy.

Originally posted by Sinious
I was talking about the the author of the novel REVAN who freakin wrote the fight between Vitiate and Revan and who specifically stated that Vitiate was fast enough to unleash an attack powerful enough to defeat Revan before he could reach him.

Actually, you were making weird references to Vitiate's performances against strike teams in TOR, and then conveniently sort of let that go when you realized that you couldn't actually connect that point to anything relevant to the thread topic.



Since I never qualified my point with "long ass", I guess you're just appealing to more strawman points, yet again. But good job completely ignoring my point that Caedus would not just stand there and let Vitiate charge his attacks, and that he would have various methods of getting to him before such an event occurred. It perhaps should not surprise me that you basically wait for two replies and then reset the discussion by pretending that I haven't addressed this point already, so that you can just copy-paste your argument and pretend that nobody's looked at it.

Vitiate's insta-lightning is strong enough pumpkin. We can keep doing this as long as you want. Just try to control your nerves though. I don't like to interact with immature people.

Originally posted by Sinious
Vitiate's insta-lightning is strong enough pumpkin.

Yeah, notice how you just state this, without any supporting warrants or evidence? Notice how you ignore, time and time again, the observation that his insta-lightning not only was insufficient to take on Revan (even in a DS nexus), but got him knocked on his ass? Your trying to pad your post with some silly ad hominems doesn't divert attention away from this observation.

Originally posted by Skybreaker
Yeah, notice how you just state this, without any supporting warrants or evidence? Notice how you ignore, time and time again, the observation that his insta-lightning not only was insufficient to take on Revan (even in a DS nexus), but got him knocked on his ass? Your trying to pad your post with some silly ad hominems doesn't divert attention away from this observation.

I see now that this guy hasn't even read the novel.

Originally posted by Sinious
I see now that this guy hasn't even read the novel.

I actually have read the novel. But yeah, you continue to use any rhetorical technique you can muster to pretend and insinuate that you know what you're talking about, instead of actually outlining your argument in an intelligible manner. Your bluffing is horribly ineffective and just serves to make you seem more pathetic with every cringe-inducing post I have to read.

The fact of the matter is, Vitiate tried sending bolts of lightning at Revan, and the Jedi knocked one back at Vitiate, hitting him in the chest and knocking him on his ass. This has been pointed out to you on multiple occasions, and with each you have outright ignored me. Trying to cleverly reply to me in the third person doesn't make you look any less foolish.

Just kiss already.

I don't reply to this kind of interaction so I'll tell you this as my final post to you:

1) Vitiate was spending a majority of his power trying to mindrape Revan which is why he wasn't performing his best as a combatant.

2) He vastly underestimated Revan and kept his guard down. He basically halfassed until he got struck down by Revan.

These are clearly depicted in the novel and I shouldn't need to remind you about what was going on during the fight if you have actually read it.

But whatever dude, hope you fix your RL issues one day and won't have to reflect them here anymore.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Just kiss already.

I'm actually creeped out a bit atm.

Originally posted by Sinious
I don't reply to this kind of interaction

Yep, who's the one whose "tiny feelings" are being hurt again?

But good to know that you consciously avoid even acknowledging this argument for an entire page, and then suddenly throw out a few pathetic points at the very end and decide to drop out. What balls you have, to call others "immature".




You're full of sh*t. Vitiate gave up on trying to mindrape Revan when he started to fling lightning bolts at Revan.



Pure speculation and handwavium on your part.



You are a liar. None of these things were ever mentioned in the novel; nowhere do we ever get an inside look at Vitiate's perspective or learn whether or not he was toying with Revan. You may make the argument that he was underestimating the Jedi; to suggest that this was clearly depicted is pure fabrication. Go f*ck yourself, you dishonest little sh*t.

Wow, I haven't seen such a total ownage since the good ol' days of Gideon and Lightsnake. Kudos Skybreaker thumbup1

If it weren't for my deficienty in the field of rhetoric, I would gladly join in the discussion

Originally posted by Stigma
Wow, I haven't seen such a total ownage since the good ol' days of Gideon and Lightsnake. Kudos Skybreaker thumbup1


Not really an ownage when someone loses their control and spits random insults at a person. As I said before, I don't care about what we're debating. I don't like interacting with immature people.





I'm glad you didnt.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lets pretend that he didn't have plenty of time to recover and the greatest means to do so available.

Plus he had been confined and tortured in Revan too and was fine.

Because the difference between a couple years and 300 isn't much...

Originally posted by Sinious
Not really an ownage when someone loses their control and spits random insults at a person. As I said before, I don't care about what we're debating. I don't like interacting with immature people.
Nah. He crushed you thoroughly.
Originally posted by Sinious

I'm glad you didnt.
Obviously, as your butt would be bruised and battered pretty badly.

Originally posted by Stigma
Nah. He crushed you thoroughly.


Nope.



Nope.

"B****, you better check yo self before you wreck yo self. Cos I'm bad for your health."
- Ice Cube