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I'm going with Revan based on the listed feats so far.

Ok, official debate, start now!!

There's no debate to be had really. Revan is Vader tier and breaks pretty close to a Vader that is well above Maul.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
There's no debate to be had really. Revan is Vader tier and breaks pretty close to a Vader that is well above Maul.

"When the Prophets of the Dark Side pitted a copy of Maul against Darth Vader as a test on Kalakar Six, Maul was able to bring Vader to his knees." Did you read it?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
"When the Prophets of the Dark Side pitted a copy of Maul against Darth Vader as a test on Kalakar Six, Maul was able to bring Vader to his knees." Did you read it?

Well Vader got much more powerful after that. His peak (ROTJ) version would TK Maul's ass.

Originally posted by Sinious
Well Vader got much more powerful after that. His peak (ROTJ) version would TK Maul's ass. ...Since when has TK ever actually killed a significantly powerful force-user?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
...Since when has TK ever actually killed a significantly powerful force-user?

I went with TK cause that's Vader's most potent ability. He got more powerful in every way possible not just his TK.

Originally posted by Sinious
I went with TK cause that's Vader's most potent ability. He got more powerful in every way possible not just his TK.

...Maul is no push-over in terms of TK either, dude.

Plus, his Saber combat will come through very well in this match-up, Revan's good, but he's no Maul.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
"When the Prophets of the Dark Side pitted a copy of Maul against Darth Vader as a test on Kalakar Six, Maul was able to bring Vader to his knees." Did you read it?
Maul still died.

And it was pre-prime Vader.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
"When the Prophets of the Dark Side pitted a copy of Maul against Darth Vader as a test on Kalakar Six, Maul was able to bring Vader to his knees." Did you read it?

Originally posted by ares834
How did that comic end? Oh yeah.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/59115/2650903-vadermauls.jpg

With Maul dead on the floor.

Did you read it?

Not that it's canon either way. Maul was brought back in TCW before Legends was separated from Canon.

T-Canon>C-Canon

Originally posted by ares834
Did you read it?

Yes, but Maul was able to bring him down before he was killed.

Regardless, this isn't about Vader, it's about Revan. Maul outmatches Revan in terms of Saber Combat in EVERY WAY.

Revan is Vader level. Maul may have an edge in sabers, but his Force showing in no way compare. Maul is behind Dooku. He honestly can't hope to compete.

Revan dominates.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Revan is Vader level. Maul may have an edge in sabers, but his Force showing in no way compare. Maul is behind Dooku. He honestly can't hope to compete. ...So Revan ALSO has 80% of Darth Sidious' power?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
...So Revan ALSO has 80% of Darth Sidious' power?

Do you think someone 1/5 of Vader would be able to help Vader stalemate Sidious?

Originally posted by Sinious
Do you think someone 1/5 of Vader would be able to help Vader stalemate Sidious? You're confusing me now, Revan is Vader-Level. You didn't say he was in the same Tier as Vader, you said he was on Vader-Level, which means specifically that he is just as strong as him, that would mean, by canon defaults, that Revan has 80% of Sidious power'.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
You're confusing me now, Revan is Vader-Level. You didn't say he was in the same Tier as Vader, you said he was on Vader-Level, which means specifically that he is just as strong as him, that would mean, by canon defaults, that Revan has 80% of Sidious power'.

I never said that. I personally think that Vader would defeat Revan in a really close fight but Revan has a decent chance too unlike Maul. Maul is the first and the weakest of Sidious' apprentices and Vader is the last and strongest one.(Not including DE Luke)

My point was that don't be fooled by those numbers. Sidious would destroy Vader if he wanted to.

Originally posted by Sinious
Well Vader got much more powerful after that. His peak (ROTJ) version would TK Maul's ass.

According to what? Between ANH and RotJ Vader has literally no TK feats of note, everything he's accomplished in that area was prior to that match. It's Maul that became vastly more powerful.

That said, Vader did enormously refine his lightsaber technique between ANH and ESB.

Regardless, it's pretty silly to insinuate Maul and Tyranus aren't a match for Vader.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
According to what? Between ANH and RotJ Vader has literally no TK feats of note, everything he's accomplished in that area was prior to that match. It's Maul that became vastly more powerful.


Yeah fairly, thats true.








Never suggested that.

Maul vs Revan isnt a bad fight fight but the there is an obvious victor here.

Prime Vader's saber skills still aren't on par with Maul's, neither are Revan's.

Yep, they are better.

Originally posted by ares834
Yep, they are better. I hope that's a joke. If not, you are literally trolling.

So saying Vader is a better duelist than Maul is trolling...

Lol, Maul fanboys.

Originally posted by ares834
So saying Vader is a better duelist than Maul is trolling...

Lol, Maul fanboys.

Pretty much. It's common knowledge that Maul is a better Saber Duelist then Vader, Maul is considered one of the best Duelists in the SW Universe, only a handful of people are ahead of him in that regard, Vader is not one of them. Vader has strength, but he can't keep up with Maul in that regard, I actually think that Revan has a better chance at beating Maul then Vader does.

Lol, some characters get seriously wanked on this site.

Revan is not dominating Maul with the Force, at all, nor is Vader for that matter. Neither of them have telekinetically dominated anyone as powerful as Maul, and typically in order to do that to another Force User the disparity in power needs to be as high as Maul/Dooku > Obi-Wan Kenobi, or Sidious > Maul/Savage or Dooku. To say Vader could dominate Maul with the Force is utter nonsense. At best he'd hurl him with TK now and again, but then we're talking about someone who can manipulate gravity, cushion falls, and guide his body away from obstacles with 100% control, in order to survive blunt impacts anywhere from back-breaking falls to 100 foot drops. If Vader was going to defeat Maul, it'd be through a combination of TK harassment and sabers, which it's plain as day to see wouldn't be an easy task.

Likewise, Revan isn't dominating Maul in the Force. He has inferior TK to Maul, going by feats and even by statements (his best TK accolade/feat is being stated that he might be able to bring down a building, where in contrast Maul was threatening to collapse a barracks with a Force scream when he was only 15, and his power increased monumentally in the decades to come).

Revan can and likely would win with his lightning/storms, maybe drain although that's far less likely. Otherwise Maul is faster, stronger, a more skilled duelist by a tier or so, and about a match for Revan tactically. Again, to say Revan would dominate him is preposterous and only shows how little you've chosen to look into the fight itself.

Originally posted by ILS
Lol, some characters get seriously wanked on this site.

Revan is not dominating Maul with the Force, at all, nor is Vader for that matter. Neither of them have telekinetically dominated anyone as powerful as Maul, and typically in order to do that to another Force User the disparity in power needs to be as high as Maul/Dooku > Obi-Wan Kenobi, or Sidious > Maul/Savage or Dooku. To say Vader could dominate Maul with the Force is utter nonsense. At best he'd hurl him with TK now and again, but then we're talking about someone who can manipulate gravity, cushion falls, and guide his body away from obstacles with 100% control, in order to survive blunt impacts anywhere from back-breaking falls to 100 foot drops. If Vader was going to defeat Maul, it'd be through a combination of TK harassment and sabers, which it's plain as day to see wouldn't be an easy task.

Likewise, Revan isn't dominating Maul in the Force. He has inferior TK to Maul, going by feats and even by statements (his best TK accolade/feat is being stated that he might be able to bring down a building, where in contrast Maul was threatening to collapse a barracks with a Force scream when he was only 15, and his power increased monumentally in the decades to come).

Revan can and likely would win with his lightning/storms, maybe drain although that's far less likely. Otherwise Maul is faster, stronger, a more skilled duelist by a tier or so, and about a match for Revan tactically. Again, to say Revan would dominate him is preposterous and only shows how little you've chosen to look into the fight itself.

I agree with every part of that, except the part where you said that Maul is a match for Revan as a tactician. Revan is undoubtedly one of the biggest tactical geniuses in THE ENTIRE SW MYTHOS. Not to say Maul isn't. He took over Deathwatch, was able to coexist with the Jedi and Sith as a renegade with his brother.

I also disagree with the TK thing, Revan in recent times has been able to conduct his use of releasing the force in its purest form. If anything, they're equals. No other character in the mythos besides Revan has been able to do something like that.

What has Revan done tactically that supersedes Maul? In dueling scenarios, I mean.

The esoteric manner in which Revan uses the Force doesn't necessarily translate to how powerfully he's using it.

Originally posted by ILS
What has Revan done tactically that supersedes Maul? In dueling scenarios, I mean.

The esoteric manner in which Revan uses the Force doesn't necessarily translate to how powerfully he's using it.

In a duel, nothing. But that's because he usually never has prep time. Revan losing to Vitiate is not his fault. Karpyshyn is the moron, not Revan, Revan could've easily come up with a much better way to kill the Sith Emperor then the way he did it.

Honestly, how many Lightsaber duels has Revan had to be in where he was on equal ground with his opponent?

He outclassed Malak, and then was outclassed by Vitiate. (On a sidenote, Revan defeated Malak in a pure saber duel.)

Well, Maul doesn't really need prep time to incorporate tactics into his duels. When he was fighting Qui-Gon Jinn on Tattooine, Jinn parried his first attack pretty easily. So, as to avoid being predictable, Maul threw out his first fighting strategy and incorporated an entirely different one within seconds.

During the duel at Theed, Maul was pretty easily manipulating the location of the fight to his liking despite the fact he was fighting two very solid duelists at the same time.

Haven't seen Revan do anything to compare.

I would give Revan the edge simply due to powerscaling and accolades. I know it sounds speculative, but when you're comparing characters over such vast separations in eras, this is what you have to go with. Revan's standout abilities and power level in the KOTOR era clearly surpasses Maul's comparatively diminutive status in his own, even one comparable more saturated with powerful Force users.

More substantively, I do not see Maul possessing anywhere near the ridiculous array of Force abilities Revan has acquired, demonstrating clearly the depth and breadth of his mastery and understanding of the Force, nor do I really see Maul lasting more than 2 seconds against Vitiate.

Originally posted by Skybreaker
I would give Revan the edge simply due to powerscaling and accolades. I know it sounds speculative, but when you're comparing characters over such vast separations in eras, this is what you have to go with. Revan's standout abilities and power level in the KOTOR era clearly surpasses Maul's comparatively diminutive status in his own, even one comparable more saturated with powerful Force users.

More substantively, I do not see Maul possessing anywhere near the ridiculous array of Force abilities Revan has acquired, demonstrating clearly the depth and breadth of his mastery and understanding of the Force, nor do I really see Maul lasting more than 2 seconds against Vitiate.

So what you're saying is, because Revan is the best of his time (roughly speaking), and Maul isn't quite the best of his time, that Revan must be better?

So how does this line of thinking not fall apart when you realize that the Rise of the Empire Era in general has more quality and quantity in terms of combatants than Revan's lifetime, and that Maul has been noted by numerous sources to be one of the most highly trained, skilled and lethal Sith of the entire order? (Not just his own generation).

Simply put your line of thinking is flawed. Maul is a better duelist. He has better physical feats. He has better battle tactics. He has better telekinetic showings and statements. Revan has more powerful Force abilities and command of the Force i.e lightning, barrier storms ect ect. So Revan could win if he fully utilised his Force power, or Maul could win in a dueling scenario. It has nothing to do with power scaling or who was the best of their time and all the rest of it. It's like saying Xesh from DotJ era is better than Yoda, because Xesh was the best duelist and Force User of his time whilst Yoda was only second best at his prime. It just doesn't work.

Revan solidly.

Sabers = Maul
Force = Revan

All-out: I give it to Revan.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Revan dominates.

Don't get me wrong, I think Revan wins this one very solidly...

but I find it sad that Maul has less votes in his favor here than Ventress did on the Ventress vs Revan thread.

Ventress did well against Maul in their clashes in TCW, smacking him around with kicks twice. She's not that far below him imo.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ventress did well against Maul in their clashes in TCW, smacking him around with kicks twice. She's not that far below him imo.
I thought that was BS, personally. Not so much her dueling evenly with him, but the fact she was kicking him so frequently. Martial arts is one of the core elements of his character, not Ventress'. But that's TCW writers for you, lol.

I see them as more or less equal as duelists, but Maul is better overall physically and more powerful.

Agree. But only a little bit. Ventress, Savage, Maul and Obi-Wan are all around the same tier imo.

I find it odd how Maul with his obsessive, somewhat excessive, training is equaled in lightsaber skill by duelists like Obi-Wan and Ventress. Who are much less well trained and less powerful.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Agree. But only a little bit. Ventress, Savage, Maul and Obi-Wan are all around the same tier imo.

I find it odd how Maul with his obsessive, somewhat excessive, training is equaled in lightsaber skill by duelists like Obi-Wan and Ventress. Who are much less well trained and less powerful.
I'd say Ventress, Kenobi and Maul are all equal as duelists. I don't really know where Savage is in terms of raw skill, but in terms of his ability to just fight and be a threat, he's a tier below them.

Well, I mean, he did spend twelve years in inhospitable conditions with no training. That would have allowed them to catch up to him.

Oh?





I think you did.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Don't get me wrong, I think Revan wins this one very solidly...

but I find it sad that Maul has less votes in his favor here than Ventress did on the Ventress vs Revan thread.
Agreed.

Maul.

And no, Vader & Dooku are not one tier ahead of Maul, because Lucas said so.

Both Vader and Dooku have significant weaknesses.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Maul.

Shocker.

Originally posted by Marco1907
And no, Vader & Dooku are not one tier ahead of Maul, because Lucas said so.

No he really didn't, and even if he did, Lucas hasn't determined canon since 2012.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No he really didn't, and even if he did, Lucas hasn't determined canon since 2012.

Look at Maul vs. Vader topic, I have a surprise for you. (Another source)

Look, you've been spamming that same quote for months now. It doesn't say what you think it does.

Originally posted by NewGuy01


I think you did.

Ok maybe I kinda did.

In all seriousness, I didnt mean to say Maul can't give Revan or Vader a decent fight. I just meant that they both have the upper hand solidly against Maul. Both can keep up with him as duelists(especially Vader) and overwhelm him in the force.

Originally posted by Skybreaker

More substantively, I do not see Maul possessing anywhere near the ridiculous array of Force abilities Revan has acquired, demonstrating clearly the depth and breadth of his mastery and understanding of the Force, nor do I really see Maul lasting more than 2 seconds against Vitiate.

I can see Revan overwhelming Maul in the Force due to having an actual means of dispatching him (lightning, ect), but Vader literally only has telekinesis as a combative means of hurting Maul with the Force. Not only can Vader not overwhelm him with telekinesis, he can't really put him out for good with it, unless he's generating more force than a 100 foot fall these days.

Do people really see Vader vs Maul and think "hmm Vader has stronger TK he wins cus TK" and think that's the end of it?

Vader wouldn't have to rely on the force as much as Revan does.

I agree. I just don't see how people come to the conclusion that in any scenario Vader would stomp/overwhelm or "solidly" defeat Maul. Any fight between them would be close to say the least.

Well unless there is a huge power gap between characters, you'll always see a decent fight in SW universe which makes sense even though sometimes its just due to pure PIS.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No he really didn't, and even if he did, Lucas hasn't determined canon since 2012. Lucas is still the original creator. Canon of Lucas > Canon of Leland Chee, Disney, or any other source.

G-Canon = George-Canon.

Originally posted by Sinious
Well unless there is a huge power gap between characters, you'll always see a decent fight in SW universe which makes sense even though sometimes its just due to pure PIS.
True to some extent, but that doesn't mean that Maul can't and wouldn't give Vader the fight of his life.

Lets stick to somewhere in between "gives Vader the fight of his life" and "Vader wins with mid difficulty"

I still think Maul could take it with his Saber skill, he isn't fast enough to keep up with Maul.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Lucas is still the original creator. Canon of Lucas > Canon of Leland Chee, Disney, or any other source.

G-Canon = George-Canon.
That's really not how it works. TCW has always been canon, and Maul is reestablished there. That statement made my Lucas was made years before Maul was made alive in canon, and Lucas had very little bearing on it. Finally, the owner of the license sets the canon, not the creator. Lucas sold his rights to the name. He has no bearing on Star Wars any longer.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
I still think Maul could take it with his Saber skill, he isn't fast enough to keep up with Maul.
That's a bit of an exaggeration. Maul might be faster somewhat but not that fast.

Originally posted by ILS
That's a bit of an exaggeration. Maul might be faster somewhat but not that fast. Read over the facts I posted on Maul, in fact, anyone who hasn't read it yet, please do. They are useful facts.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Read over the facts I posted on Maul, in fact, anyone who hasn't read it yet, please do. They are useful facts.
I was already aware of everything you posted about Maul. He's still not so fast that Revan couldn't keep up with him.

Originally posted by ILS
I was already aware of everything you posted about Maul. He's still not so fast that Revan couldn't keep up with him. Oh, of course not, I'm not saying that, he could keep up with him, but not forever, and as far as I can tell, Maul knows the tutaminis ability, and can use it, those clashes, however, are usually based on how strong the other one is in the force. So Maul will probably lose it.

My grammar was so messed up in that last post. No periods, ANYWHERE T-T

I have to go with Maul personally due to the massive dueling disparity. Revan wont be able to hold his own in a duel against someone who is proven to be faster, stronger, comparably powerful, and who outweights him heavily in that category. Revan's TK is inferior to Mauls, barrier is useless, given that if Maul understands Revan can soak his TK, he'll just outduel him, Revan's tutaminus is useless because Maul doesn't use lightning.

Maul's strength and dueling ability should grant him a victory imo

XD Ligth saber V.S force use....

Revan is the fastest between them look at his figth with Vitiate.. All of it happen in just a few second..

Maul just get ripped before he can draw his ligth saber......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6WYHb8GuZ8
Doe that when you face Revan. You will die the mind cleared because you have in anyway no chance to win !!!

Revan solidly

Maul. He has both better saber and Force feats.

My class was just in a silent prayer and I read that and I laughed so hard we had to start all over again because of the disturbance.

Thread:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan solidly

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
My class was just in a silent prayer and I read that and I laughed so hard we had to start all over again because of the disturbance.

You're such a bad boy.

Originally posted by Nalaniel
You're such a bad boy.
You are going to have to punish me later then.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You are going to have to punish me later then.

That's going to be fun. Hihihi. :3

Come to TOF.