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Bardock takes on Tienshinhaan.

Let's say Tien is fighting him at the level of strength he was for the Saiyan Saga battle against Nappa/Vegeta. Can he take Bardock?

If one squashes the other, at what point in the series do you think they are pretty equal for a good bout?

Bardock stomps SS Tien

Bardock has a power level of around 10,000 before he died. Nappa curb stomped Tien with less than half of that.

Saiyan Saga Tien gets butt phucked and hard

Yeah, Bardock's PL was approaching 10,000 during the film. Tien's PL during the Saiyan Saga was a scant 1,830.

Oh is that really the case? I always figured Nappa would be stronger than Bardock, considering the whole "saiyan elite" thing. That's not the case? What Tien could take Bardock then?

After training with King Kai in Otherworld. Although by then, his PL was logically far in excess of 10k... /shrug

Originally posted by Quincy
Oh is that really the case? I always figured Nappa would be stronger than Bardock, considering the whole "saiyan elite" thing. That's not the case? What Tien could take Bardock then?

Yeah Bardock was far and above most elites due to him constantly being in battle.

On that note, the end-scene in which Bardock shreds through hundredS of Frieza's troops, before reaching Frieza himself, was epic. Equally as epic was Frieza wiping out Bardock+all of his own troops+the Planet Vegeta.... With a damn finger-ball. none

Not only was that a badass moment for Bardock, but it also makes you realize how utterly insignificant everyone was in comparison to Frieza. At the time, the closest PL to his own was probably Zarbon's, which was still laughably insignificant next to Frieza's base power... Never mind transformations.

Dodoria wrecked Bardock in the movie right?

I always loved that scene. Frieza was always one of my favs in DBZ. I just wish we got to see more of him and his empire.

Originally posted by Quincy
Dodoria wrecked Bardock in the movie right?

And his whole squad. His power was around 12,000 above Bardock

Originally posted by Quincy
Dodoria wrecked Bardock in the movie right? Yes. Dodoria's PL was 22,000. Bardock's was <10,000.

...And Bardock's crew were much less powerful than himself. They were stomped by Dodoria's elite, who, in turn, were stomped by Bardock himself.

Originally posted by juggerman
I always loved that scene. Frieza was always one of my favs in DBZ. I just wish we got to see more of him and his empire.

It would have been awesome to see just how encompassing Frieza's(and King Cold's) empire was. I'm sure it was MASSIVE, given that they were several orders of magnitude more powerful than ANYONE else at the time. It would have also been nice to know how many races/species/worlds Goku(well, technically Trunks) liberated upon killing them.

You folks know a lot about power levels.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yes. Dodoria's PL was 22,000. Bardock's was <10,000.

...And Bardock's crew were much less powerful than himself. They were stomped by Dodoria's elite, who, in turn, were stomped by Bardock himself.

Ha I forgot it was Dodoria's crew that did the heavy lifting there.

Originally posted by Galan007


It would have been awesome to see just how encompassing Frieza's(and King Cold's) empire was. I'm sure it was MASSIVE, given that they were several orders of magnitude more powerful than ANYONE else at the time. It would have also been nice to know how many races/species/worlds Goku(well, technically Trunks) liberated upon killing them.

I always wanted a spin off about other beings under their rule. Not more Saiyans but maybe the Ginyu Force or some other planet filled with people that have no choice but to serve the mighty Frieza

KXvi4zWKT84

In the episode of Bardock (Which is canon from memory.) It reveals that Bardock didn't die, and instead was sent to the past, and was the first Super Saiyan.
He was the one that made Frieza's family fear the Saiyan's.
Super Saiyan Bardock has a power level of about 500,000 by the way.

Edit. Or at least was the first recorded Saiyan.

Non canon

Originally posted by juggerman
Non canon

You sure? Could've swoon Akira was the one that did it?

Iirc he helped with the idea, but he also helped a little with GT and that's non canon too

Originally posted by juggerman
Iirc he helped with the idea, but he also helped a little with GT and that's non canon too
He only did a few drawings here and there for GT.
I'm pretty sure he actually helped with the story for EOB, which makes it a higher level canon then GT anyway.

Its only N-canon when Akira contradicts it or says so
Edit. Could be wrong though. 'Shrug.'

Bardock Father of Goku isn't even canon.

Originally posted by juggerman
Bardock Father of Goku isn't even canon.

Do you think I care if its considered canon or not? Some of the events are in fact canon my good bro.
And it in fact does not contradict the Manga.
Anyway, Akira helped with the story of EOB, so that doesn't mean its full canon, but it means that it's not N-canon either.
Unless Akira stated it wasn't canon, at least.

Originally posted by Kaldin
Do you think I care if its considered canon or not? Some of the events are in fact canon my good bro.

Events like Frieza destroying Planet Vegeta and Bardock being present are canon. The rest is basically just filler unless otherwise stated. Don't get me wrong I love the story but it's still non canon

Originally posted by Kaldin
And it in fact does not contradict the Manga.

That doesn't matter. Goku entering a tournament in Other World and meeting Pikkon doesn't contradict the Manga either. Still non canon.

Originally posted by Kaldin
Anyway, Akira helped with the story of EOB, so that doesn't mean its full canon, but it means that it's not N-canon either.
Unless Akira stated it wasn't canon, at least.

Again him helping=/=canon. See GT

Originally posted by juggerman
Events like Frieza destroying Planet Vegeta and Bardock being present are canon. The rest is basically just filler unless otherwise stated. Don't get me wrong I love the story but it's still non canon



That doesn't matter. Goku entering a tournament in Other World and meeting Pikkon doesn't contradict the Manga either. Still non canon.



Again him helping=/=canon. See GT

As I said before, he didn't help with GT's story, he just helped with a few ****ing drawings. Which is why it was awful.

I wasn't talking about BFOG being canon or not anyway (Was just saying it didn't contradict the Manga and stuff, ya know,) I was talking about EOB, which Akira did in fact help create the story of.

Originally posted by Kaldin
As I said before, he didn't help with GT's story, he just helped with a few ****ing drawings. Which is why it was awful.

Did he help? He did more than "just a few ****ing drawings" too.

Originally posted by Kaldin
I wasn't talking about BFOG being canon or not anyway (Was just saying it didn't contradict the Manga and stuff, ya know,) I was talking about EOB, which Akira did in fact help create the story of.

If EoB is canon, wouldn't BFoG need to be as well?

Originally posted by Kaldin
As I said before, he didn't help with GT's story, he just helped with a few ****ing drawings. Which is why it was awful.

I wasn't talking about BFOG being canon or not anyway (Was just saying it didn't contradict the Manga and stuff, ya know,) I was talking about EOB, which Akira did in fact help create the story of.

What do you mean by bold?

Originally posted by juggerman
Did he help? He did more than "just a few ****ing drawings" too.

If EoB is canon, wouldn't BFoG need to be as well?

Akira did, in fact not help with GT's story bro, which is why it was awful.
And yeah, he did help with EoB's story.
I'm not saying EoB is canon, just saying technically, its not non canon unless Akira says so, because he helped make the story.
It's like with Star Wars, the Manga is A canon, and EoB is.......E canon
Best thing I've ever thought of in my life.

Nvm, didn't notice your first post lol. Sorry man. Damn I'm so tired.

Originally posted by Kadan
What do you mean by bold?


"........?"
Originally posted by Kadan
Nvm, didn't notice your first post lol. Sorry man. Damn I'm so tired.
..............Ok, quess I'll let it go then mate.
Get some sleep.

Originally posted by Kaldin
Akira did, in fact not help with GT's story bro, which is why it was awful.

Wasn't my question. He helped with more than just drawlings. Him just "helping" doesn't automatically mean it's canon.

Originally posted by Kaldin
And yeah, he did help with EoB's story.
I'm not saying EoB is canon, just saying technically, its not non canon unless Akira says so, because he helped make the story.

It's canon to BFoG which is a non canon feature. Unless BFoG is canon, which according to you it isn't since Akira had nthing to do with it and has not stated it to be, then it's sequel is equally non canon unless otherwise stated

Edit

Originally posted by juggerman
Wasn't my question. He helped with more than just drawlings. Him just "helping" doesn't automatically mean it's canon.



It's canon to BFoG which is a non canon feature. Unless BFoG is canon, which according to you it isn't since Akira had nthing to do with it and has not stated it to be, then it's sequel is equally non canon unless otherwise stated
Obviously he accepts BFoG then, works both ways bro. Also, Akira did in fact help with the drawings for BFoG, but that was all.
It either makes both a form of canon or non canon, as I said works both ways.
What do you mean by the italics?

Originally posted by Kaldin
Obviously he accepts BFoG then, works both ways bro. Also, Akira did in fact help with the drawings for BFoG, but that was all.
It either makes both a form of canon or non canon, as I said works both ways.
What do you mean by the italics?

I agree it works both ways. If BFoG is non canon then EoB is also non canon. Glad we agree here. Now there is nothing that says BFoG is canon since it was created by a source other than Akira and he never once said it was canon. So logic dictates that it is non canon until otherwise stated by the man himself. And if it is non canon then any and all sequels will have the same standing. Simple

You said all Toriyama did was help "with a few ****ing drawings" for GT. I'm saying he did more than that

Lets leave it at that.

K

Wait a minute. If something is done by Akira himself, wouldn't that make it canon?

Originally posted by carver9
Wait a minute. If something is done by Akira himself, wouldn't that make it canon?

Akira can help with non canon projects. See GT

Akira also designed Pikkon. Pikkon is still non-canon, though.

Akira didn't help with much in GT, he didn't help with its story, or anything like that, he only helped with (some of) the drawings.

Dodoria's goons would be about Nappa level.

Originally posted by Kadan
Akira didn't help with much in GT, he didn't help with its story, or anything like that, he only helped with (some of) the drawings.

He did more than that but if he also helped with Pikkon as Galan said than that's another point to consider. As I said before, Akira can help create non canon things but they are still non canon.

If Akira made "Broly 4, Shit's about to go DOWN!!" would that make Broly a canon character all of a sudden? Nope. A sequel for a non canon character would still be non canon unless the man says otherwise. He never did.

The manga and/or official press releases from Akira is what makes characters and events canon. If the material in question wasn't mentioned or shown in one of the former, it defaults to non-canon/filler. Simple. That is why 'Super kaio kens' and Pikkon are non-canon, even though Akira had a hand in their creation.

Conversely, the only reason Frieza killing Bardock and destroying planet Vegeta in BFoG is canon, is because those events were explicitly referenced in the manga.

Originally posted by juggerman
Akira can help with non canon projects. See GT

Why wouldn't it be canon though? If Akira produced it and came up with/assisted with the project, why wouldn't it be canon material?

Originally posted by Galan007
The manga and/or official press releases from Akira is what makes characters and events canon. If the material in question wasn't mentioned or shown in one of the former, it defaults to non-canon/filler. Simple. That is why 'Super kaio kens' and Pikkon are non-canon, even though Akira had a hand in their creation.

Conversely, the only reason Frieza killing Bardock and destroying planet Vegeta in BFoG is canon, is because those events were explicitly referenced in the manga.

I understand this but if Akira agreed/added parts to the anime, stories that came straight from the manga, why wouldn't it be canon? Akira DID the anime, including the filler. I see no reason on it not being canon. Including Pikkon.

Because the original canon source is the manga. Everything in it is canon. Things created outside of it are not unless he says they are. It's weird I know.

Originally posted by carver9
I understand this but if Akira agreed/added parts to the anime, stories that came straight from the manga, why wouldn't it be canon? Akira DID the anime, including the filler. I see no reason on it not being canon. Including Pikkon. Akira wrote every single word on every single page of the manga--that's why it is the *most* canon DB material. Conversely, it was Toei Animation that adapted the anime from Akira's manga. Granted, Akira helped with concepts for the anime here and there, but he didn't sit down and write every minute of every episode--ergo why the filler-scenes/characters that do not coincide with the manga are non-canon. Manga takes precedence, always.

It's a lot like the Star Wars canonicity tiers used to be. The SW films=the *most* canon material, as they were explicitly created/adapted by George Lucas' hand. If ANY other SW material(ie. novels, comics, guidebooks, etc.) contradicted what we saw happen in any of the films, then the aforementioned became non-canon by default--even if Lucas himself had a hand in their creation.

Originally posted by Kadan
He only did a few drawings here and there for GT.
I'm pretty sure he actually helped with the story for EOB, which makes it a higher level canon then GT anyway.

Its only N-canon when Akira contradicts it or says so
Edit. Could be wrong though. 'Shrug.' Originally posted by Kadan
He only did a few drawings here and there for GT.
I'm pretty sure he actually helped with the story for EOB, which makes it a higher level canon then GT anyway.

Its only N-canon when Akira contradicts it or says so
Edit. Could be wrong though. 'Shrug.' i think bardock will win here

Akira released a new chapter that centers around Bardock. That solidifies the fact that Bardock: Father of Goku was indeed non canon

Originally posted by juggerman
Akira released a new chapter that centers around Bardock. Huh?

Originally posted by Galan007
Huh?

Yeah, sounds fishy.

Mind posting it Juggerman? Just the first I've heard of it.

I haven't read but i saw a review of it. Haven't you heard that he was making a new that would finally show Goku's mom? I'll look for something on it

Originally posted by juggerman
I haven't read but i saw a review of it. Haven't you heard that he was making a new that would finally show Goku's mom? I'll look for something on it

No. From what I heard, it was a rumor about the new DBZ movie in 2015. They're apparently going to introduce Goku's mother, but that still doesn't have anything to do with the Bardock episode.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
No. From what I heard, it was a rumor about the new DBZ movie in 2015. They're apparently going to introduce Goku's mother, but that still doesn't have anything to do with the Bardock episode.

Goku's mother was introduced in a manga he writes within the same universe iirc. Someone posted the scan a few months back.

http://www.junkiemonkeys.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Screen-Shot-2014-04-04-at-6.45.58-PM.png

this is an english version I just couldn't be assed to look it up and read it

Tien kept up with Trunks for a bit, and might've stalemated him, were it not for Trunks turning SSJ: watch?v=tF99jsVww2w

Oh you're talking about Gine, from 'Dragon Ball Minus'. Yeah, she was revealed to be Bardock's mate, and mother of Goku/Raditz, but I'm not sure how that story would de-canonize BFoG as a whole..?

Either way, the only part of that film that is 100% canon, is the part where Frieza destroys Bardock, planet Vegeta, and nearly all the other Saiyans(the Dragon Ball Minus issue reconfirms this fact for us, actually.) Everything else I take with a grain of salt, though.

I'm hindered due to being at work and them having blocks up but according to the review I saw, this new chapter completely disregards BFoG. Some of the discrepancies are:

Bardock "senses" Frieza is up to no good but has no visions.
Vegeta is off on another planet with Raditz when Frieza calls every Saiyan back to Planet Vegeta but they ignore the order which spares them
Bardock steals a pod and launches Goku off into space, to a seemingly unknown location, out of fear for his life(due to the feeling that Frieza was up to no good)
Bardock has no run in with Dodoria nor does his team.
I don't even think he had a team at all

And also Frieza knows full well about the Super Saiyan God Legend.

Oh yeah, the story as a whole definitely contradicts/de-canonizes most of the film--I just thought you guys were implying that the introduction of Gine is what somehow rendered BFoG non-canon(not that I thought it was canon to begin with, mind you.) My bad.

Anyway, here's the entire Viz-translated 'Dragon Ball Minus' short, for anyone who is interested:
http://i.imgur.com/lldwUfH.png
http://i.imgur.com/ZH5yj1H.png
http://i.imgur.com/VRGZ6ND.png
http://i.imgur.com/AwbJnXC.png
http://i.imgur.com/QWl7zxn.png
http://i.imgur.com/1piZn68.png
http://i.imgur.com/p3s5OJH.png
http://i.imgur.com/KUs0Mps.png

Nice, thanks. I'll chack this out when I get home

Originally posted by Galan007
Oh yeah, the story as a whole definitely contradicts/de-canonizes most of the film--I just thought you guys were implying that the introduction of Gine is what somehow rendered BFoG non-canon(not that I thought it was canon to begin with, mind you.) My bad.

Anyway, here's the entire Viz-translated 'Dragon Ball Minus' short, for anyone who is interested:
http://i.imgur.com/lldwUfH.png
http://i.imgur.com/ZH5yj1H.png
http://i.imgur.com/VRGZ6ND.png
http://i.imgur.com/AwbJnXC.png
http://i.imgur.com/QWl7zxn.png
http://i.imgur.com/1piZn68.png
http://i.imgur.com/p3s5OJH.png
http://i.imgur.com/KUs0Mps.png

Awesome, thanks for posting that.

Yeah though, I'm surprised that it was that different from the BfoG special. Do you know when it came out, by any chance?

April 4th (japan) and 7th(english) of this year.