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How powerful is everyone else in terms of their applicable raw power in the Force?

IMHO (and this is largely speculative, of course, and may contradict earlier declarations of mine, but oh well);

Luke - 120
Sidious (DE) - 120
Sidious (RotS) - 90
Yoda - 90
Bane - 80
Vader (RotJ) - 80
Revan - 75
Nihilus - 75
Galen Marek - 75
Exar Kun - 70
Anakin - 65
Windu - 65
Dooku - 60
Obi Wan - 40

Wait, you think Bane is 20% more powerful than Anakin yet also that Anakin can resist his Force attacks?

Aren't you one of the guys going on about how much of a difference 20% is between Vader and Sidious?

T'would actually be slightly less than 20%

I think 20% of 65 would be 13 or something or basically 20% I guess. I think it's a little over.

It would be 18.75% if we're talking about Bane as 100%

Would be around 23% if we're talking about Anakin as 100%

Originally posted by Emperordmb
It would be 18.75% if we're talking about Bane as 100%

Would be around 23% if we're talking about Anakin as 100%

Nu huh

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wait, you think Bane is 20% more powerful than Anakin yet also that Anakin can resist his Force attacks?


Yep.



Nope.

How is Obi wan 40 when Obi wan> Anakin?

How is Anakin and Windu 65 and Dooku only a 60? He's more powerful than either imo.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
How is Obi wan 40 when Obi wan> Anakin?
Because if you think that Obi-Wan is better than Anakin, you've already stopped caring about making sense.

Originally posted by Nephthys
How is Anakin and Windu 65 and Dooku only a 60? He's more powerful than either imo.

The implication in RotS is that Anakin's raw power vastly outstrips either, but Dooku's fine control is superior.

Dooku's actualised power is above Anakin's. Anakin just taps into his raw potential at points.

"at points"? I dunno, throughout that whole duel Dooku was basically struggling to hold onto his lightsaber against Anakin.

Dooku only had the edge when he talked about Shmi, and that lasted seconds.

What about when he kicked Anakin on his ass? Or when he was blocking Anakin + Obi-Wan at once?

Weren't you the one talking just yesterday about how it's easier to land kicks than actual saber strikes?

How does that contradict the idea of Dooku having the edge? I mean he kicked Anakin while dealing with Obi-Wan at the same time. But no, Anakin was super whooping him.

I feel like assigning Force power levels to a percentage is a fools errand. That shit fluctuates like crazy depending on any number of factors.

Originally posted by Skybreaker
How powerful is everyone else in terms of their applicable raw power in the Force?

IMHO (and this is largely speculative, of course, and may contradict earlier declarations of mine, but oh well);

Luke - 120
Sidious (DE) - 120
Sidious (RotS) - 90
Yoda - 90
Bane - 80
Vader (RotJ) - 80
Revan - 75
Nihilus - 75
Galen Marek - 75
Exar Kun - 70
Anakin - 65
Windu - 65
Dooku - 60
Obi Wan - 40

Luke - 120
Sidious (DE) - 110
Sidious (RotS) - 95
Yoda - 95
Bane - 85
Vader (RotJ) - 80
Revan - idk
Nihilus - dik
Galen Marek - 80
Exar Kun - idk
Anakin - 105
Windu - 85
Dooku - 85
Obi Wan - 65

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
Anakin - 105

Anakin's 200 bro.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
dik

Teehee

Nihilus - 1000

As in Nihilus could solo 10 DE Sidious simultaneously.

Originally posted by Board Walker
Nihilus - 1000

As in Nihilus could solo 10 DE Sidious simultaneously. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f122/blaxican_templar/1406866656282_zpsa3765309.gif~original

Originally posted by Tzeentch
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f122/blaxican_templar/1406866656282_zpsa3765309.gif~original
This gif is perfect.

Originally posted by ares834


What's hard to agree with about this? Anakin's raw force power was supposed to be unheard of. This isn't about mastery, just power.

It's applicable raw power. Not potential.

Originally posted by ares834
It's applicable raw power. Not potential.

All he has to do is get extremely emotional and the power will be shown.

Not nearly to Sidious's level. If he did, Kenobi wouldn't have lasted more than a few moments.

Originally posted by ares834
Not nearly to Sidious's level. If he did, Kenobi wouldn't have lasted more than a few moments.

Idk, the force certainly sustained Vader through Sidious's lightening when Vader was emotional enough to let it fuel him.

Didn't Vader's anger upon hearing about Padme's death also bring Palpatine to his knees or something similar? That wasn't even focused to effect anyone specific.

It seems like Vader has a range of force power he can use, and his more emotional states seem to tap into the higher, more outlier feats within that range.

^I recall Vader reaching out and trying to kill Sidious at that moment, but ultimately he "could not touch the shadow".

Where would you rank Anakin compared to Sidious's different versions?

Seems like all...0 people were brave enough to make a list like the op seems to have had in mind.

EDIT: I typed this before SKy's post, so it certainly wasn't directed at you.

haha

I would argue that, had Anakin not been crippled, he could have been a serious danger to Palpatine in his zone-rage-mode. My reasoning being that both the movie's depiction and the novel's pretty explicit description of Anakin's domination of Dooku is significantly more impressive than Yoda's performance, and really establishes a gulf between Anakin and Dooku greater than the suggest gulf between Palpatine and Dooku. That's my opinion on it.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
Where would you rank Anakin compared to Sidious's different versions?

Seems like all...0 people were brave enough to make a list like the op seems to have had in mind.

EDIT: I typed this before SKy's post, so it certainly wasn't directed at you.

As of RotS? Don't know. Below Vader, so under 80%.

Kyp Durron - 85
Caedus - 85
Unuthul - 150?

Originally posted by Skybreaker
haha

I would argue that, had Anakin not been crippled, he could have been a serious danger to Palpatine in his zone-rage-mode. My reasoning being that both the movie's depiction and the novel's pretty explicit description of Anakin's domination of Dooku is significantly more impressive than Yoda's performance, and really establishes a gulf between Anakin and Dooku greater than the suggest gulf between Palpatine and Dooku. That's my opinion on it.


Yoda's fight against Dooku isn't comparable to Anakin's at all per the very same logic you used with Sidious vs the bros.

Regarding actualized power, Anakin as of ROTS was already a great deal more powerful than Dooku. His only problem was his lack of command over his actualized power, but when angry Anakin can harness his actualized power dominate Dooku through brute strength, which wouldn't have nearly the same effect against Yoda, considering Yoda can match Sidious in strength and is a great deal more powerful than Anakin as far as actualized power is concerned and having total control over it. I think that's pretty much self evident in the fact that Yoda is a peer of Sidious who can ragdoll Dooku from a distance of light years.

Luke - 115
Sidious (DE) - 110
Sidious (RotS) - 95
Yoda - 93
Valkorian - 93
Vitiate (ToR) - 85
Vitiate (Revan) - 82
Vader (RotJ) - 80
Revan (SoR)- 80
Galen Marek - 75
Revan Reborn - 72
Nihilus - 70
Exar Kun - 70
Windu - 68
Bane - 65
Dooku - 65
Anakin - 65
Darth Revan - 60
Jedi Revan - 55
Obi Wan - 55

^ this primarily works if we assume that even small differences in Force ability can cause pretty large combative outcomes. Some results like Dooku having some parity with Yoda need to be explained.

My assumptions:

Anakin Skywalker = 200
Valkorion = 170
Vitiate (Rise of the Emperor) = 150
Luke Skywalker = 140
Palpatine (Dark Empire) = 140
The Sith Emperor (SWTOR original) = 130
Revan (Shadow of Revan) = 110
Palpatine (OT) = 100
The Sith Emperor (Revan) = 100
Yoda = 100
Revan (Reborn) = 90
Exar Kun = 85
Darth Revan = 80
Darth Vader (OT) = 80

Red = Same individual - different incarnations.
Blue = Same individual - different incarnations.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My assumptions:

Anakin Skywalker = 200
Valkorion = 170
Vitiate (Rise of the Emperor) = 150
Luke Skywalker = 140
Palpatine (Dark Empire) = 140
The Sith Emperor (SWTOR original) = 130
Revan (Shadow of Revan) = 110
Palpatine (OT) = 100
The Sith Emperor (Revan) = 100
Yoda = 100
Revan (Reborn) = 90
Exar Kun = 85
Darth Revan = 80
Darth Vader (OT) = 80

Red = Same individual - different incarnations.
Blue = Same individual - different incarnations.

Lmao.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My assumptions:

Anakin Skywalker = 200
Valkorion = 170
Vitiate (Rise of the Emperor) = 150
Luke Skywalker = 140
Palpatine (Dark Empire) = 140
The Sith Emperor (SWTOR original) = 130
Revan (Shadow of Revan) = 110
Palpatine (OT) = 100
The Sith Emperor (Revan) = 100
Yoda = 100
Revan (Reborn) = 90
Exar Kun = 85
Darth Revan = 80
Darth Vader (OT) = 80

Red = Same individual - different incarnations.
Blue = Same individual - different incarnations.

Dat ranking damaged my genes so badly that my great-grandchildren will have hereditary cancer.

Anakin being twice as powerful as Sidious is likely only how far he would've gotten as a Sith and not nearly as far as he would've gotten with the Ones' help.

Cuz let's be real, there is no way Mortakin is only twice as powerful as ROTS/ROTJ Sidious.

Uh, there is definitely a way. 2x is ludicrous already.

It would be if there was anything impressive about RotS and RotJ Sidious besides fighting Yoda once.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Anakin being twice as powerful as Sidious is likely only how far he would've gotten as a Sith and not nearly as far as he would've gotten with the Ones' help.

Cuz let's be real, there is no way Mortakin is only twice as powerful as ROTS/ROTJ Sidious.

RotJ Sidious is only 25% more powerful than Vader yet he can pretty much OHK him. Being twice as powerful is like a godmurderstomp in SW.

Yeah no twice of ROTJ Sidious's power is not soloing the Son and Daughter.

And "Anakin could've been twice as powerful as Sidious" isn't a limiting statement anyways. It doesn't explicitly state what he can't do, only what he can do. It doesn't state that that is all Anakin could've achieved.

Actually, I agree with zoltan. If the leap from 80 to 100 is equal to the gap between Vader and ROTJ Sidious, 200 should be an almost incomprehensible level where the Father probably is. People should understand that this doesnt mean 2 ROTJ Sidious' can take the Father. Not even close.

However, I don't take the universe buster hype BS seriously and do believe that enough amount of Sidious / Valkorion / Luke level opponents can take down a One. So 200 doesnt really sound low for peak Anakin.

Or the gap between Vader and Sidious isn't nearly as impressive as you want it to be. It's not like Lucas took DE into account when he was making an arbitrary statement.

LOL cmon man. Stop it with your pathetic Vader wank. You're making it hard for the rest of us to enjoy the character.

The Father (Peak) - 200
The Son - 180
The Daughter - 180

Luke Skywalker - 90~115
Darth Sidious (Dark Empire) - 110
Valkorion - 110

Darth Sidious (RotS~RotJ) - 100~105

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Or the gap between Vader and Sidious isn't nearly as impressive as you want it to be. It's not like Lucas took DE into account when he was making an arbitrary statement.
Yeah honestly given Vader's telekinetic feats I definitely don't see him being fodder for Sidious or Sidious having the capacity to quickly overcome him with TK.

Originally posted by Sinious
LOL cmon man. Stop it with your pathetic Vader wank. You're making it hard for the rest of us to enjoy the character.
Your devotion to Sidious is nauseating. It's become so sad that you can't even defend him and have instead resorted to attacking me and not the point.

The only time we see post ROTS Sidious put in a situation where he has to go all out in a GL or Disney related medium is in the DS option of TFU I, where he quite easily handles Marek.

You think he went all out there?

I mean that is where we get to see another high tier force user completely outclassed by Sidious. I don't recall any other instance like that that would clearly put Sidious above Vader as a force user.

The One's: Like, 1000+?

In Canon at least, it seems Vader is being portrayed as top tier. So I'd be surprised if there was a significant gap between him and Palpatine in Canon.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
RotJ Sidious is only 25% more powerful than Vader yet he can pretty much OHK him. Being twice as powerful is like a godmurderstomp in SW.

20%

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
20%

Do you math?

I actually like this list. It seems pretty solid

I'm ignoring the Vader being 80% of Sidious quote because not only does that make this ranking system more difficult, but that quote is outdated and I believe the new canon has made Vader a more elite force user

ROTJ Sidious-100
ROTS Sidious-95
Yoda-90/95
Vader-90
Mace Windu-80/85
Count Dooku-80
Anakin-80
Galen Marek-75/80
Obi Wan-75
Darth Maul-70/75
I'm not sure about ROTJ Luke, probably around 75

Let me know what you guys think

I strongly disagree. Yoda is not equal to Vader. He is significantly superior in the force. The gap between ROTS Sidious and Vader should be higher too. Sidious easily sent Maul & Savage flying and ragdolled Dooku from quite afar. Vader is really not that close to achieving these feats.

Maul probably should at least be equal to Kenobi here, and Anakin's achieved raw power varies a lot so it's hard to place him somewhere specific.

Feel free to create a better list if you can.

Also I never said Yoda and Vader were equals, Yoda is above Vader on my list

You clearly have them as almost equals lol. 0 to 5 difference is like nothing.

Idk, if we're talking strictly raw power and not overall mastery over the force and if ROTJ Sidious is 100 and Vader is 80;

Maul 70
Dooku 75
Windu 75
Malgus 75
Anakin 200 (by ROTS he'd probably vary between 70-80 most of the time)
Revan 80/85
TPM Sidious 85
Plagueis 85
ROTS Sidious 90
Yoda 90
Luke 105/110
DE Sidious 105
Valkorion 110

You've become Neph, Sinious. Tell us how your opinion matters more than actual feats.

What part of my list gives you cancer specifically?

Vader/Plagueis :>

You disagree as well Skillz?

Plagueis is clearly superior to Vader. Maybe even more than you're letting on.

Okay, so, if RotJ Sidious is a 100...

WARNING - this is only about Force mastery/power/skill. No combat stuff.

The Father - 250
Abeloth - 190
The Son / The Daughter - 180
Valkorion - 150
Luke Skywalker - 110
DE Palpatine - 105
Revan - 100
Yoda - 95
RoT Bane - 95
Arcann - 94
Darth Malgus - 90
Darth Jadus - 90
Darth Plagueis - 85
Darth Caedus - 82
Kyp Durron - 82
Starkiller - 80
Scourge - 75
Darth Vader - 74
Exar Kun - 73
DoE Bane - 70

I suppose the Vader = 80% Emperor benchmark is a good way to tabulate the rest of the data, even if it seems silly to base so much from a sort of offhand remark Lucas probably didn't think about very carefully. Regardless, it's still a better deal than complete arbitrariness. We have a few rules to play with, overall:

1. Vader = 80% RotJ Sidious.
2. TPM Sidious > all prior Sith
3. RotS Yoda > all prior Jedi
4. Vitiate > all prior Sith
5. Exar Kun > all prior Sith
6. Vader vs. Sidious tells us that relatively small power disparities mean a lot (imagine someone 10% faster than Usain Bolt...)

So we can get an idea of Vader's performance against the Emperor, and scale from there. Points 2 and 3 probably provide us with the best hope of scaling people from different eras.


Originally posted by cs_zoltan
RotJ Sidious is only 25% more powerful than Vader yet he can pretty much OHK him. Being twice as powerful is like a godmurderstomp in SW.

Yeah, that's a good point, and it makes sense if you think about it - most differences in ability between professional athletes are intuitively tiny, but make an enormous difference at that level (imagine trying to fight a guy twice as big as you, or who can move twice as fast, etc.).

Originally posted by Rebel95
I'm ignoring the Vader being 80% of Sidious quote because not only does that make this ranking system more difficult, but that quote is outdated and I believe the new canon has made Vader a more elite force user


I think 80% of the most powerful sith lord in history is a pretty elite number, actually.



Galen Marek should be above Obi Wan and Anakin in raw Force power, as should Dooku and Windu. Vader certainly is not on Yoda's level if you look at their sature relative to Palpatine.

I think the big question is how large the gap between Sidious and Dooku is. That probably dictates a lot of the mytho's hierarchy.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Plagueis is clearly superior to Vader. Maybe even more than you're letting on. Honestly, that's the only part that disturbed me though that's not what Freshest was talking about I'm sure.

Idk, if Vader is 80 and ROTJ Sidious 100, I didn't know where else to place TPM Sidious and ROTS Sidious anywhere other than 85 and 90, mostly because of the length of the time period between these incarnations of Sidious. And Plagueis automatically fell under 85 too. How would you have done it?

I think ROTS Sidious can be 100 which would solve the problems with my list.

Originally posted by Sinious
Honestly, that's the only part that disturbed me though that's not what Freshest was talking about I'm sure.

Idk, if Vader is 80 and ROTJ Sidious 100, I didn't know where else to place TPM Sidious and ROTS Sidious anywhere other than 85 and 90, mostly because of the length of the time period between these incarnations of Sidious. And Plagueis automatically fell under 85 too. How would you have done it?

I think ROTS Sidious can be 100 which would solve the problems with my list.

Not necessarily. Sidious's growth in power probably hits diminishing returns, so I could see RotS Sidious being a 95 and TPM Sidious being a 90. Plagueis vs. TPM Sidious is pretty up in the air, so he could be an 89 or 88. It seems like even the jump from 95 to 100 would be non-trivial anyway; that's roughly a 5% difference, which would be massive in, say, track and field - the jump from Vader to Sidious is enough to make a battle between them a curbstomp.

If the Banite sith are growing steadily more powerful over the ages, it's likely that Bane is a pretty small fraction of Palpatine.

Originally posted by Sinious
I strongly disagree. Yoda is not equal to Vader. He is significantly superior in the force. The gap between ROTS Sidious and Vader should be higher too. Sidious easily sent Maul & Savage flying and ragdolled Dooku from quite afar. Vader is really not that close to achieving these feats.

Maul probably should at least be equal to Kenobi here, and Anakin's achieved raw power varies a lot so it's hard to place him somewhere specific.
I disagree, Yoda is for sure more powerful in the force, but not by much. Keep in mind that the new canon has significantly increased Vader's power.
I do agree that Maul and Obi Wan are basically equals, I just gave the slight edge to Obi Wan

Originally posted by Rebel95
I disagree, Yoda is for sure more powerful in the force, but not by much. Keep in mind that the new canon has significantly increased Vader's power.
I do agree that Maul and Obi Wan are basically equals, I just gave the slight edge to Obi Wan

The thread focuses on Legends given its various EU characters. Even Legends Vader fails to ragdoll characters to the same extent that Sidious can.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
The thread focuses on Legends given its various EU characters. Even Legends Vader fails to ragdoll characters to the same extent that Sidious can.
In that case then yeah I agree. But in canon the gap is not that large.