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The sole surviving master of Vaapad Vs The Sword Of The Jedi.

I've been reading Shatterpoint(very good read, I highly recommend it ) so I'm a bit more impressed with Mace atm and I figured Jaina would give Mace a good fight or vice-versa. So:

Who the **** wins this!?

Mace solidly

Jaina 6/10.

Mace, though it should be a good fight.

No super conducting loop for Windu here. Jaina takes this.

She is beyond it.

Mace takes this one.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Mace takes this one.

Based on what?

Windu wins.

Originally posted by ares834
No super conducting loop for Windu here.

That's not really true, everyone has some level of darkness within them, even Yoda--Jaina is far from being an exception. Sure, it's not the same as if he were fighting a Sith or Dark Jedi, but it's not like Vaapad is ineffective in scenarios like these.

What advantage does Jaina have over Mace, really?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
That's not really true, everyone has some level of darkness within them, even Yoda--Jaina is far from being an exception. Sure, it's not the same as if he were fighting a Sith or Dark Jedi, but it's not like Vaapad is ineffective in scenarios like these.

What advantage does Jaina have over Mace, really?

Considerably better saber feats.

For example?

Like her initial duel with Caedus or taking down several Vong slayers while not at her peak.

Aside from being massively amped in his duel against Sheev, what does Windu have that compares?

Mace with difficulty

> Makes mention of Windu being amped against Sidious

> Elects to ignore that Jaina fought a heavily injured Caedus while she herself was being amped

> Pardon me while I go lose my shit laughing

Prove that Jaina was amped.

Mace Windu in a good fight.

Originally posted by ares834
Prove that Jaina was amped.

dude, the freaking text says she was losing her energies, how is that not proof enough? Imo, Jaina is a great duelist and So is Mace. Regardless of who wins, it's a good fight.

You don't think Mace could defeat a one-armed, injured Caedus?



She was in a battle meld with beings as powerful as Luke Skywalker and Jacen Solo. As a result, her abilities would obviously be light years beyond what she'd ever be normally capable of.



The fact that his power was above normal par doesn't change the fact that he demonstrated the skill necessary to stalemate Darth Sidious. Considering his power/physical feats are better than Jaina's in the first place, I'm not seeing how he would even need such an amp to win this.

How does that mean it exactly? She could easily be just exhausted after the beating she took. And she is exhausted. Could she have been amped by Luke? Perhaps, but it isn't concrete either way. Which is why I asked for proof. If he has definitive proof that Jaina was being amped by Luke and not having a one with the force moment I'd like to see it.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
You don't think Mace could defeat a one-armed, injured Caedus?

Of course he could. He has Vaapad. Without it? Not a chance.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
The fact that his power was above normal par doesn't change the fact that he demonstrated the skill necessary to stalemate Darth Sidious.

Which is irrelevant as Mace was amped of Palpatine in that fight.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Considering his power/physical feats are better than Jaina's in the first place, I'm not seeing how he would even need such an amp to win this.

What feats? The only one that are far better are his CW ones. Otherwise, I don't see any that put him beyond Jaina keeping up with Jacen.

Originally posted by NewGuy01

What advantage does Jaina have over Mace, really?

Well, her fighting style includes being trained to fight unconventionally and unpredictably, Windu's not likely to have encountered this at such a high level. Jaina's got the same force potential as her brother. Her mental force abilities are strong.


Originally posted by ILS

> Elects to ignore that Jaina fought a heavily injured Caedus while she herself was being amped


Jaina wasn't amped by anything outside herself, and while Caedus was injured, he also specifically has the ability to ignore pain and injury, so it wouldn't slow down his sword arm or such.

Personally, I'm not entirely sure who'll win. They're both extremely good, they both have shatterpoint, it may come down to who's style has the edge over the other.

Originally posted by ares834
How does that mean it exactly? She could easily be just exhausted after the beating she took. And she is exhausted. Could she have been amped by Luke? Perhaps, but it isn't concrete either way.

I said that her energies returned to "normal levels". If she were merely exhausted that doesn't fit.

Originally posted by ares834
Which is why I asked for proof. If he has definitive proof that Jaina was being amped by Luke and not having a one with the force moment I'd like to see it.

He said she was amped, but not specifically by Luke. In either case, Luke or oneness, she was amped beyond her normal level.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I said that her energies returned to "normal levels". If she were merely exhausted that doesn't fit.

Sure it does. It's why she returned to her "normal levels" (or at least could be).

Originally posted by Nephthys
He said she was amped, but not specifically by Luke. In either case, Luke or oneness, she was amped beyond her normal level.

And? Generally speaking, a moment of oneness is done by the user opening themselves to the force more fully. As Q99 pointed out it's basically Jaina amping herself.

Originally posted by ares834
Sure it does. It's why she returned to her "normal levels" (or at least could be).

"Then Jaina experienced an abrupt draining as her Force energies returned to their normal level."

Yeah, totally just tired.

Originally posted by ares834
And? Generally speaking, a moment of oneness is done by the user opening themselves to the force more fully. As Q99 pointed out it's basically Jaina amping herself.

I see, so Jacen wins every versus fight because he goes Super Saiyan with the most powerful state of oneness ever. Totally legit, its just him amping himself.

Originally posted by Nephthys
"Then Jaina experienced an abrupt draining as her Force energies returned to their normal level."

Yeah, totally just tired.

Cool story bro. If you hadn't taken by quote out of context initially you'd realize I was arguing against Luke amping her.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I see, so Jacen wins every versus fight because he goes Super Saiyan with the most powerful state of oneness ever. Totally legit, its just him amping himself.

Except it's explicitly stated that Jacen can't ever use that again. But yeah, end of NJO Jacen could probably beat anyone that's true.

Originally posted by ares834
Cool story bro. If you hadn't taken by quote out of context initially you'd realize I was arguing against Luke amping her.

Um, duh? I'm arguing it was Luke amping her. I took your quote in exactly the context it was in. That doesn't change anything. Her energies returned to normal levels from being amped. Again, duh.

Originally posted by ares834
Except it's explicitly stated that Jacen can't ever use that again. But yeah, end of NJO Jacen could probably beat anyone that's true.

Gee, it's almost as if a state of oneness is like, involuntary and you can't just pull it out whenever you want or something.

But yeah I totally agree that if Jaina just happens to achieve oneness she wins. But thats true of any character.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Um, duh? I'm arguing it was Luke amping her. I took your quote in exactly the context it was in. That doesn't change anything. Her energies returned to normal levels from being amped. Again, duh.

You are? So I ask, do you have any concrete evidence Luke as amping her? Like I mentioned earlier, her energies could just as easily have returned to normal because she was exhausted and could no longer draw on the force so heavily.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Gee, it's almost as if a state of oneness is like, involuntary and you can't just pull it out whenever you want or something.

But yeah I totally agree that if Jaina just happens to achieve oneness she wins. But thats true of any character.

Someone is bitter. Anyway, if this is a moment of "oneness" it seems to be far more like Zonakin or Kenobi when he defeated the Maul bros as she isn't glowing with force energy or even dying. Rather she is just using the force to a greater extent than typical. So frankly, I don't see the problem. This is just Jaina operating at her best not at her normal level.

If that's the case, then we should assume Mace is operating at his best as well.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
If that's the case, then we should assume Mace is operating at his best as well.

Of course. But only on the power that he can draw on on his own.

So because I am exhausted at people incorrectly debating the Caedus vs Jaina battle here:

Part II

Fight II

Fight II Part II:

Originally posted by ares834
You are? So I ask, do you have any concrete evidence Luke as amping her? Like I mentioned earlier, her energies could just as easily have returned to normal because she was exhausted and could no longer draw on the force so heavily.

No, nothing concrete. But she clearly was being amped and Luke was already projecting illusions into the area so he's the most likely source. A state of oneness doesn't make any sense. Luke helping more than we already know he was, does make sense.

Originally posted by ares834
Someone is bitter. Anyway, if this is a moment of "oneness" it seems to be far more like Zonakin or Kenobi when he defeated the Maul bros as she isn't glowing with force energy or even dying. Rather she is just using the force to a greater extent than typical. So frankly, I don't see the problem. This is just Jaina operating at her best not at her normal level.

Lol BS. Jaina was injured at that point, so how exactly was that her at her best? The amp continues even when she's barely standing, choking on her own burnt flesh and has blurred vision. I highly doubt that she could continue drawing on the Force deeper than she ever had at that point. And she wouldn't just suddenly stop in the middle of the action. An outside amp makes far more sense.

It's not something she can replicate here.

Originally posted by ares834
Of course. But only on the power that he can draw on on his own.

So Mace Shatterpoints her instantly.

No clue what you are talking about.