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All Out

Who wins?

Traya shitstomps.

That was fast.

IDK

Malgus takes this one.

Malgus has no response to her drain, though I doubt she could ragdoll him due to him being comparably powerful

Malgus without the drain.

Why is it everyone assumes that drain is her only good technique? she's one of the best stealth characters in the mythos.

Stealth would really have no use in a fight between two powerful Sith like this imo

She has drain. Thats the main point of this thread. Can she use it against very capable and powerful combatants? If so, can she take down top tier sith with it? (Not saying, Malgus is top tier. If she takes this in this thread, I'll make another thread of her against a more powerful opponent)

I'm trying to figure it out atm.

She can.

Nothing is stopping her unless you have a resistance to it, and or are faster than her by a superior margin (i,e Plagueis/Sidious tier).

Malgus ticks none of those, ergo Malgus dies

Originally posted by carthage
Stealth would really have no use in a fight between two powerful Sith like this imo

Windu walked up to Dooku and could have decapitated him without the Count even knowing about it.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Why is it everyone assumes that drain is her only good technique? she's one of the best stealth characters in the mythos.

We're not. But she loses without it to an opponent like Malgus.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Windu walked up to Dooku and could have decapitated him without the Count even knowing about it.
That wasn't a straight-up fight.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Windu walked up to Dooku and could have decapitated him without the Count even knowing about it.

Was that really due to force stealth or incredibly bad script writing by George Lucas? Cmon man what do you think is more likely? Dooku is more powerful than Windu in the force in terms of feats.

Yeah we typically debate straight fights here, not situations where one guy has the drop on another.

Originally posted by carthage
She can.

Nothing is stopping her unless you have a resistance to it, and or are faster than her by a superior margin (i,e Plagueis/Sidious tier).

Malgus ticks none of those, ergo Malgus dies

I doubt that Traya would get insta-blitzed by even Sidious. I also doubt that Sidious would be vulnerable to such technique.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
That wasn't a straight-up fight.

Even alerted, a stab in the back is far from impossible, three lightsabers should certainly prove an advantage, when you can disappear whilst your opponent is busy.

Bar Drain feats she has displayed a bucket ton of impressive Force feats, combative and otherwise.

Originally posted by carthage
Was that really due to force stealth or incredibly bad script writing by George Lucas? Cmon man what do you think is more likely? Dooku is more powerful than Windu in the force in terms of feats.

I am not referring to the film, but Shatterpoint.

She isn't going to sneak up on him, he could sense her as they're on the same tier in power.

Or Malgus could just Force Maelstrom and start tearing shit up.

He's never displayed that feat in combat, and or against someone on Traya's level.

What? He did against the strike team.

Tiers in power isn't exactly relevant, tbh... I mean Caedus had no idea that Jaina was on the other side of that door before she shoved her lightsaber in his stomach. We know for a fact that he was a lot more powerful than her.

Whilst Malgus has sensed a camouflaged Jedi before, said camouflaged Jedi has nowhere near the levels of collective stealth feats Traya has.

Could you provide these stealth feats?
(not saying you're wrong per se, I'm just not too familiar with them)

Originally posted by carthage
He's never displayed that feat in combat, and or against someone on Traya's level.

I meant if she stealths. So he can put himself in a Force Bubble and start spamming TK and lightning everywhere to deal with that.

She messes with Mical's head, so that he cannot perceive her despite the fact that she is standing right in front of him. He ends up thinking he is just hearing things. When he turns around, Kreia appears to vanish from sight.

She messes with Mical's head again. This time, she calls out to him telepathically. After following the source, Mical finds nothing. Kreia is seen behind him, and she whispers to him. When Mical tends around, she disappears and reappears behind him. She then alters Mical's mind so that all thoughts of her slide away, revealing that he only sees what she allows him to see. This clearly shows how much power she has over other people

"Jedi. Jedi. Betrayer. All thoughts of me will slide from your vision, from your mind, like water. You know who I am. But you will unable to voice it, to remember it. What does a Jedi see? Only what I allow them to see."

This time, Kreia erases Mical's memory of what he discovers, but displays an alarming degree of power over him (and power in general) when she modified his memory so that "when the time was right", he would recall what he had discovered. She also appeared to be unnoticed by GO-TO and Mandalore during the entire conversation, and prior to the conversation, she was able to observe Mical (who has displayed the abilities to Sense others, such as Atton, near him) without him, GO-TO or Mandalore noticing her.

Every time Mical comes close to finding out what he discovered, Kreia's former memory afflictions come into effect, and Mical's discoveries "slip away". This is evidence of the potency of the previous telepathy and memory rub powers that Kreia used on Mical, and she confirms this with a whisper of "so close" from the other end of the Ebon Hawk when Mical fails to recover his memories, which proves she also continually knows what is going on in Mical's head and what he is saying, even from across the ship.

Kreia explains that she uses Force techniques so that even across the breadth of the galaxy, the Jedi Masters "do not remember or care" about her. She explains that this is the usage of Force techniques to cloud the memory of others and make herself unnoticed. When Meetra asks if she used the technique on her, Kreia replies that she didn't, but claimed that if she did, the Exile would never know.

She describes her technique as "making herself small", to make herself unnoticed.(essentially she uses Art of Small)

Emperor Malgus, IMO.

Effectiveness of Force Drain related applications against genuinely powerful Force-users is open to hyperbole in discussions due to lack of such depictions in the lore. My observation is that people tend to take liberty from unexplored aspects of powers demonstrated in KoTOR II and regard Force Drain related applications as unstoppable insta-kills against even powerful Force-users. If this was really the case then most Sith Lords would have focused on mastering these applications and used them to devastating effect during combative situations, but this doesn't seems to be the case. The no-limits hype of Force Drain died with KoTOR II at official capacity, which is good, but continues in discussions in forums without critical evaluation, which is not constructive.

Originally posted by AncientPower
She messes with Mical's head, so that he cannot perceive her despite the fact that she is standing right in front of him. He ends up thinking he is just hearing things. When he turns around, Kreia appears to vanish from sight.

She messes with Mical's head again. This time, she calls out to him telepathically. After following the source, Mical finds nothing. Kreia is seen behind him, and she whispers to him. When Mical tends around, she disappears and reappears behind him. She then alters Mical's mind so that all thoughts of her slide away, revealing that he only sees what she allows him to see. This clearly shows how much power she has over other people

"Jedi. Jedi. Betrayer. All thoughts of me will slide from your vision, from your mind, like water. You know who I am. But you will unable to voice it, to remember it. What does a Jedi see? Only what I allow them to see."

This time, Kreia erases Mical's memory of what he discovers, but displays an alarming degree of power over him (and power in general) when she modified his memory so that "when the time was right", he would recall what he had discovered. She also appeared to be unnoticed by GO-TO and Mandalore during the entire conversation, and prior to the conversation, she was able to observe Mical (who has displayed the abilities to Sense others, such as Atton, near him) without him, GO-TO or Mandalore noticing her.

Every time Mical comes close to finding out what he discovered, Kreia's former memory afflictions come into effect, and Mical's discoveries "slip away". This is evidence of the potency of the previous telepathy and memory rub powers that Kreia used on Mical, and she confirms this with a whisper of "so close" from the other end of the Ebon Hawk when Mical fails to recover his memories, which proves she also continually knows what is going on in Mical's head and what he is saying, even from across the ship.

Kreia explains that she uses Force techniques so that even across the breadth of the galaxy, the Jedi Masters "do not remember or care" about her. She explains that this is the usage of Force techniques to cloud the memory of others and make herself unnoticed. When Meetra asks if she used the technique on her, Kreia replies that she didn't, but claimed that if she did, the Exile would never know.

She describes her technique as "making herself small", to make herself unnoticed.(essentially she uses Art of Small)


She also masked herself from the council during their Trial of the Exile, and manipulated each of their minds into wanting the Exile cast out.

The thing is here, Malgus is a brute in combat.

Brutes are Traya's forte. She would find these characters the easiest to manipulate, and always has. Malgus is a more powerful version of Sion, who she manipulated with ease. Not saying Malgus would bow to her, but she can predict his combat methods and manipulate his mind into seeing her where she's not. The easiest way to apply force tricks is showing opponents what they want to see, not only could she make herself physically invisible (Which we know she can do) but she could place herself, in his mind, at a disadvantage which just makes him more reckless.

Her masterful displays of Tk and Kinetic Combat would be enough to finish off a dazed, confused Malgus. Even without Force Drain.

Malgus is smarter and much more powerful than Sion. And I highly doubt she'll be able to effect Malgus in the manner you're suggesting in an actual fight where he's spitting lightning and force waves in her direction and charging at her. And if he does lose track of her theres ways for him to find her again.

Playing with Mical's mind isn't particularly impressive imo. A few of that other stuff sounds kind of off to me. I don't recall her being at the trial.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Playing with Mical's mind isn't particularly impressive imo. A few of that other stuff sounds kind of off to me. I don't recall her being at the trial.

He doesn't mean Meetra's first trial, he means the trial on Dantooine - or rather the meeting on Dantooine.

She manipulated the Council into wanting to cast the Exile out..... and then got super pissed at them for doing it?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Malgus without the drain.

So how does it feel to be on the other side of "lol drainz?"

Originally posted by Nephthys
She manipulated the Council into wanting to cast the Exile out..... and then got super pissed at them for doing it?

No, she manipulated the Coruscant trial.

I need to find the quote...

Edit: She might have just manipulated Atris' mind, I can't remember.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Effectiveness of Force Drain related applications against genuinely powerful Force-users is open to hyperbole in discussions due to lack of such depictions in the lore.

Based on what?



Your observation means absolutely nothing without evidence.



Again, an hypothesis without evidence. One can easily counter that this technique is not easily mastered, evidence by your onetruegod Vitiate needing rituals to perform the same thing. This is probably y u so mad about KOTOR II.




I don't think anyone on this board can say what is or is not constructive, least of all you with your technique being mostly relentlessly stubborn. So I don't know what this high horse is about.

You're critiquing everyone yet have provide no shreds of evidence of a viable defense of the force drain. I will say that I share you're obvious distaste of the technique but it exists either way. I'm not ignoring it because I don't like it.

Originally posted by Selenial
No, she manipulated the Coruscant trial.

I need to find the quote...

Edit: She might have just manipulated Atris' mind, I can't remember.

See I just took all the times they talk to be Atris being ****ing nuts and Traya only messing with her mind to conceal her presence and involvement.

But yes idk anything about her messing with Atris at that point.

I'd agree with LeGenD as far as drain goes.

The only known defense of the technique is if you're a wound which is the entire basis of the game. Anything else is speculation and none of y'all are providing even a modicum of evidence to it.

She did manage to stealth around Sion early on in the game. She was in the same room as him and she was even taunting him and he still had trouble finding her. She was still not at 100% at this point though and Sion managed to eventually chop off her hand.

A 100% Traya could probably use her stealth powers against Malgus. But giga-drain aside, I think Malgus is the better combatant.

A side note, Sion is grossly underrated on this forum.

He has little feats to even be "rated."