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For those here who do AND dont believe in the hereafter...

$1,000,000.12, after taxes. In return you sign a piece of paper with the words MY SOUL written across the middle, and a line at the bottom for your signature.

Thats it.
No further obligation on your part at all.

Yes or no, why why not.

No. My soul is much more valuable to me than any amount of money.

Eh, it'd be at least a bit suspicious. Why would I want that much money anyways? I guess you could use it to do good deeds and regain your soul like in a movie but why get the money if you are going to just do good with it?

Is this a supernatural entity asking for souls or just a dude?

This is a guy who'd leave because you couldnt make up your mind.

As for it being a supernatural being, there's no such thing ( right?). Just an eccentric millionaire and easy cash....

i would give you a piece of paper with my soul and my signature written on it for a free burrito from taco bell.

I don't think I would sell my figurative soul for money. I get this is a rich man with the right to do whatever he wants with his cash, but I don't have to humor his idiocy and trolling.

Maybe I would sing a different tune if I actually needed the money, but I don't, so I get to refuse and make witty replies g_grin

Eh, who am I kidding, the chance of doing some witty replies is worth my life

Originally posted by red g jacks
i would give you a piece of paper with my soul and my signature written on it for a free burrito from taco bell.

The tacobell offer would be more honest form a money-thrown-away standpoint. But then you can get offended by how much meals they are willing to pay for your soul.

This is why the devil lets the people propose a price for their souls.

i wouldn't be offended i would just think they are either slow or insane.

Originally posted by red g jacks
i wouldn't be offended i would just think they are either slow or insane.

What would be really cool is to resell a second paper that says soul for another round.

what would be funny is if they turn around and use my signature to somehow steal my identity and plunge me into debt.

Originally posted by red g jacks
what would be funny is if they turn around and use my signature to somehow steal my identity and plunge me into debt.

That's even darker than going to hell

This idea of selling souls to pay for food reminded me of this:

http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20141026.png

I don't think I would sell my figurative soul for money. I get this is a rich man with the right to do whatever he wants with his cash, but I don't have to humor his idiocy and trolling.
how is this trolling? Idiotic, i can see, as he's spending a lot of money for "nothing". But how is it trolling? I really think i'm going to get a kick out of the answer.

Maybe I would sing a different tune if I actually needed the money, but I don't...
really? Yeah i call BS on that but its not a major point, just you posturing.

Eh, who am I kidding, the chance of doing some witty replies is worth my life
this one's way too easy...

Originally posted by riv6672
how is this trolling? Idiotic, i can see, as he's spending a lot of money for "nothing". But how is it trolling? I really think i'm going to get a kick out of the answer.

Well, I don't see any reason to do something like giving money for figurative souls other than trolling. I guess you could be an entire moron of a fool, which would make me an abusive bastard if I actually took the money. In either case, no point in taking money I don't need.

You see, if the question was asked by a supernatural being at least these moral complications of jumping like a lapdog for a rich moron or abusing a crazy person wouldn't appear.

i would rationalize abusing the crazy person by telling myself that i will spend the money better than they would and not waste it on dumb shit like a piece of paper with some nonsense scribbled on it. probably wouldn't lose any sleep over it tbh.

@Bentley

Your reasoning isnt as funny as i'd hoped, but still nutty as squirrel poop.

Also, i never said the person was or wasnt supernatural. We have a lot of posters here who dont believe in the supernatural, and would bog the thread down with THAT instead of just answering the question.

By leaving it ambiguous i'm trying to get at something else altogether.

Originally posted by red g jacks
i would rationalize abusing the crazy person by telling myself that i will spend the money better than they would and not waste it on dumb shit like a piece of paper with some nonsense scribbled on it. probably wouldn't lose any sleep over it tbh.

I guess that if the person in question was actually crazy you could actually help him better than he can help himself, so getting his money and using it to safely keep him from doing stupid would be the moral thing to do.

Me, I wouldn't want to waste my time with them, I'm not that much of a goody two-shoes.

I like your rationalisation though.

Originally posted by riv6672
By leaving it ambiguous i'm trying to get at something else altogether.

Yes that makes sense, good point.

I'm not really materialistic myself, I'm more of a pragmatist. Money is a hassle, and even if it's "free" it's never really free, you have to take care of it, invest it, putting on savings and feed a bunch of parasites that will distribute it for you. This is also why I think the Tacobell meal is more appealing as a whole. At this point in life I can't say I care much for having lot's of savings.

But mostly, I'm like Peter Quill:

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/2/27154/488948-screenhunter_19_nov._18_21.18.jpg

you sound like you've never been broke in your life.

Originally posted by red g jacks
you sound like you've never been broke in your life.

I can't say I've been broke. Here in France is pretty easy to live by the day without being miserable, I come from a low outcome family so I'm savvy and I've gone from being essentially homeless to a rather average income without much care.

It's an exceptional thing in it's own way and I can see that most people on the world would have a very different mindset than me on the subject. Which is totally justified if you ask me, it just happens to be pretty different than my personal experience.

I like your Quill reference.

That said, i'm hoping for more than just you commenting in this thread, as the point i wanted to explore is getting hopelessly lost, no offense.

so you're not wealthy? do you have any idea how much fun you can have with a million dollars? it's not about being materialistic. you could take a year off and travel the world. money can absolutely buy happiness son.

Originally posted by riv6672
I like your Quill reference.

That said, i'm hoping for more than just you commenting in this thread, as the point i wanted to explore is getting hopelessly lost, no offense.

Tell me that by PM before I got into scans rambles like I just did. Sorry

Originally posted by red g jacks
so you're not wealthy? do you have any idea how much fun you can have with a million dollars? it's not about being materialistic. you could take a year off and travel the world. money can absolutely buy happiness son.

Oh, I don't doubt money can buy happiness, I'm just happy already.

And imagine the bragging rights of saying "son, let me remind you of that time I refused a million dolars"! I'd be like the hippiest hippy ever. Admittedly the whole soul stuff would make it sound much lamer, but I'd skip that part when I tell the story.

No, no, a thousand times no. I've watched too many Twilight Zone episodes to not know better.

That aside, who's giving me this paper, what are his/her credentials and guarantees that I get this money? I'd be more fearful of humans screwing me over than anything else.

So its no but, you want to know the details?

No!

Originally posted by riv6672
So its no but, you want to know the details?

No!
http://jaymans.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/when-communicating-the-devil-is-in-the-details.jpg

https://d13yacurqjgara.cloudfront.net/users/214626/screenshots/1377052/devilhisdue_teaser.png

A soul is worth more than that.

This is actually a very interesting question. I actually believe in God and souls so I guess I was banned from answering but for those that don't believe.... well that's a lot of money to turn down for "nothing".

Originally posted by riv6672
For those here who do AND dont believe in the hereafter...

$1,000,000.12, after taxes. In return you sign a piece of paper with the words MY SOUL written across the middle, and a line at the bottom for your signature.

Thats it.
No further obligation on your part at all.

Yes or no, why why not.

There is no such thing as a soul. It would be fraud for me to try and sell something that didn't exist. So, the answer would be no. I don't do fraud.

Technically you'd be seeling him a piece of paper with some "useless words" written on them.

Originally posted by juggerman
Technically you'd be seeling him a piece of paper with some "useless words" written on them.

Ya! Kind of like selling the Brooklyn Bridge.

Hell yes, why wouldn't I?

I don't want for money, but on the other hand, it's a million bucks for nothing at all. Yeah, I'd probably do it.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Ya! Kind of like selling the Brooklyn Bridge.

Not really the same. The man comes to you and tries to convince you to sell something you don't even believe exists for a cool mil. Not really fraud since they are fully aware of what they are getting, which is nothing iyo.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
A soul is worth more than that.

Not that you'd buy one

Originally posted by juggerman
Not really the same. The man comes to you and tries to convince you to sell something you don't even believe exists for a cool mil. Not really fraud since they are fully aware of what they are getting, which is nothing iyo.

Wouldn't you be suspicious? I still wouldn't do it. I would just laugh at the man and walk away.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Wouldn't you be suspicious? I still wouldn't do it. I would just laugh at the man and walk away.

I would be suspicious too but I also believe we all have souls and I wouldn't sell mine.

Now if someone came up to me and said "We all have magical invisible unicorns that protect us from goblins at night and I would like you buy yours for a million dollars" I'd be like "Hell yeah! I actually breed them and have more if you'd like!"

If you don't believe something exists or benefits you then why not "sell" it to better your personal situation. Even if you are living comfortably, it's a million dollars for basically just the amount of time to sign your name. It seems to me, and I could be completely wrong here, that anyone who wouldn't has to believe that they do indeed have a soul and that it is worth something

But again I could be way off. Just the vibe I get.

Since I do not believe selling your soul can be done (it is a figurative thing where a person descends into sin), I'd gladly pretend to sell it.

Originally posted by juggerman
I would be suspicious too but I also believe we all have souls and I wouldn't sell mine.

Now if someone came up to me and said "We all have magical invisible unicorns that protect us from goblins at night and I would like you buy yours for a million dollars" I'd be like "Hell yeah! I actually breed them and have more if you'd like!"

If you don't believe something exists or benefits you then why not "sell" it to better your personal situation. Even if you are living comfortably, it's a million dollars for basically just the amount of time to sign your name. It seems to me, and I could be completely wrong here, that anyone who wouldn't has to believe that they do indeed have a soul and that it is worth something

But again I could be way off. Just the vibe I get.

But you are being dishonest and lying to the person. I wouldn't do that for money. I wouldn't do that at all. The "negative Karma" that I would receive from such a transaction would be too high of a price to pay.

This is what I would do: I would tell the guy, there are no souls to buy. Please don't go around trying to buy souls, okay?. If you don't want the money, there are other ways of getting rid of it. You could give it to charity, or foundations that feed the poor. I would never take money that isn't mine.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But you are being dishonest and lying to the person. I wouldn't do that for money. I wouldn't do that at all. The "negative Karma" that I would receive from such a transaction would be too high of a price to pay.

As far as the "breeding" part goes yes. That was more for humor than being my actual reaction. But he wants to buy "nothing" from you. He's basically walking up to you and saying "here's free money" iyo. In the end he gets what he wants, at a price he wants to pay and you come out no worse for wear. I really don't see that as being dishonest especially if you say you don't believe in whatever he's trying to buy and he insists.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
This is what I would do: I would tell the guy, there are no souls to buy. Please don't go around trying to buy souls, okay?. If you don't want the money, there are other ways of getting rid of it. You could give it to charity, or foundations that feed the poor. I would never take money that isn't mine.

Ok so say you explain to him "There is no soul and you are wasting your money, and there are other things you could do with it" and he insists he wants to specifically "buy a soul". Nothing else will do. He also says "if you don't believe then consider it payment for indulging his silliness". Now it's clear to him you don't believe you are giving anything and he is still willing to buy "nothing" from you. Would you really let it pass you by just cuz you "don't believe"?

That's what makes me think that your reservations are rooted deeper.

I just had an idea:

I'd write Shakyamunison's name down on the piece of paper, selling his soul!

Originally posted by juggerman
Ok so say you explain to him "There is no soul and you are wasting your money, and there are other things you could do with it" and he insists he wants to specifically "buy a soul". Nothing else will do. He also says "if you don't believe then consider it payment for indulging his silliness". Now it's clear to him you don't believe you are giving anything and he is still willing to buy "nothing" from you. Would you really let it pass you by just cuz you "don't believe"?

That's what makes me think that your reservations are rooted deeper.

It would still be dishonest. At that point I would come to the opinion that I am talking to a "nut", and I would vacate and call the police. I would never take advantage of a mentally ill person.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I just had an idea:

I'd write Shakyamunison's name down on the piece of paper, selling his soul!

Identity thief!

Originally posted by juggerman
As far as the "breeding" part goes yes. That was more for humor than being my actual reaction. But he wants to buy "nothing" from you. He's basically walking up to you and saying "here's free money" iyo. In the end he gets what he wants, at a price he wants to pay and you come out no worse for wear. I really don't see that as being dishonest especially if you say you don't believe in whatever he's trying to buy and he insists.

Its absolutely dishonest! In any transaction, there must be a fair give and take. I go to the store, and I give the guy behind the counter money for a loaf of bread. He gets money and I get bread. That is a fair transaction. If the money is counterfeit or the bread is bad, then that is not a fair give and take. Just because someone is being foolish does not make a dishonest transaction legit.

I am beginning to worry about your ethics.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Its absolutely dishonest! In any transaction, there must be a fair give and take. I go to the store, and I give the guy behind the counter money for a loaf of bread. He gets money and I get bread. That is a fair transaction. If the money is counterfeit or the bread is bad, then that is not a fair give and take. Just because someone is being foolish does not make a dishonest transaction legit.

I am beginning to worry about your ethics.

But who decides the worth of a "soul"?

"A fair give and take" depends on both the product and the parties. Here water isn't worth much. Maybe I shouldn't say "worth" but it doesn't cost much but go to some third world places and it has a much higher value. A painting may be worthless to me but it may auction for millions. So just because this "piece of paper" seems meaningless to you doesn't mean you are "taking advantage" if others see increased value where you don't

Originally posted by dadudemon
I just had an idea:

I'd write Shakyamunison's name down on the piece of paper, selling his soul!

Ha!

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It would still be dishonest. At that point I would come to the opinion that I am talking to a "nut", and I would vacate and call the police. I would never take advantage of a mentally ill person.

Ok hypothetically you know he is not mentally ill. He's rich and bored and just wants to see if someone would actually sell thier soul. Hopefully this covers all bases. If not what other objections do you have?

Originally posted by juggerman
But who decides the worth of a "soul"?

"A fair give and take" depends on both the product and the parties. Here water isn't worth much. Maybe I shouldn't say "worth" but it doesn't cost much but go to some third world places and it has a much higher value. A painting may be worthless to me but it may auction for millions. So just because this "piece of paper" seems meaningless to you doesn't mean you are "taking advantage" if others see increased value where you don't

I would be selling him nothing for something and that is not an ethical deal. Plane and simple; I wouldn't do it. The one thing I would be protecting by not making such a dishonest deal is my Karma.

Originally posted by juggerman
Ok hypothetically you know he is not mentally ill. He's rich and bored and just wants to see if someone would actually sell thier soul. Hopefully this covers all bases. If not what other objections do you have?

It doesn't matter how much money he has. I would not have anything to do with a dishonest deal.

Would you give it away for free then? Nothing for nothing deal?

Originally posted by juggerman
Would you give it away for free then? Nothing for nothing deal?

No.

That answers my question. Thanks for playing along.

Originally posted by juggerman
That answers my question. Thanks for playing along.

Would you sign a document that said you would give nothing for nothing in return?

Is the signature what you have issue with? And if you didn't have to sign it? Maybe just write "My soul" on paper and hand it over? It seems as tho you are just looking for reasons not to part with something you say you don't believe you have. That just seems weird to me. Maybe I'm just asking the question wrong and if that's the case I do apologise.

How about this: Is there a scenario where you would be comfortable selling or giving away your proverbial soul to another human being? If so please explain. If not just say no.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Would you sign a document that said you would give nothing for nothing in return?

I don't want you to think I'm just gonna ask you questions while dodging the ones you ask me. Knee jerk answer is no, but since we've been talking about this and it's kinda established what we are referring to without being too vague or potentially hazardous in some unknown way I don't see that harm. Again this is within the hypothetical realm we've created here. I wouldn't just go around signing stuff that I had no clue about.

Also I'm reading back on the comments and I feel like I may have come off a bit dickish. If that's the way it seems I apologize

Originally posted by juggerman
Is the signature what you have issue with? And if you didn't have to sign it? Maybe just write "My soul" on paper and hand it over? It seems as tho you are just looking for reasons not to part with something you say you don't believe you have. That just seems weird to me. Maybe I'm just asking the question wrong and if that's the case I do apologise.

How about this: Is there a scenario where you would be comfortable selling or giving away your proverbial soul to another human being? If so please explain. If not just say no.



I don't want you to think I'm just gonna ask you questions while dodging the ones you ask me. Knee jerk answer is no, but since we've been talking about this and it's kinda established what we are referring to without being too vague or potentially hazardous in some unknown way I don't see that harm. Again this is within the hypothetical realm we've created here. I wouldn't just go around signing stuff that I had no clue about.

I'm not worried about a soul or about some trick. I would never involve myself in a dealing where I feel like I am taking advantage of someone. The reason is for my own selfish needs.

Let's change the scenario to get a better handle on this. Lets say I am buying a car from someone, and they are asking way too low of a price for the value of the car. Would you not tell the person you are asking too little? I would. I would feel bad if I bought a $10,000 car for $1,000. The reason is because I believe that every action I take builds my Karma. If I start to build my Karma with taking advantage of other people, what I will receive in return is being taking advantage by other people. "what you sow so shall you reap".

I am not trying to avoid your question. I am giving you my truthful answer.

Originally posted by Bentley
Tell me that by PM before I got into scans rambles like I just did. Sorry



Oh, I don't doubt money can buy happiness, I'm just happy already.

And imagine the bragging rights of saying "son, let me remind you of that time I refused a million dolars"! I'd be like the hippiest hippy ever. Admittedly the whole soul stuff would make it sound much lamer, but I'd skip that part when I tell the story. do you not think you could be happier with a million dollars though? i think i'd be way happier.

Who are we selling our soul to? How can they collect on said soul? What happens once they have collected said soul? So many vague points in this OP that it's impossible to answer the question.

If it's anything like the Devil taking a soul for eternal damnation as understood by mainstream Christianity, no amount of money could possibly be worth it.

the way i interpreted it, it's like some dude asking you to sign a piece of paper that says "my soul" on it for a million bucks. you're basically taking the risk that it's not really the devil and that writing your name on a piece of paper that says "my soul" on it isn't really spiritually binding. so based on whatever your ideology that is either a no-brainer or maybe a little sketchy.

to me if you knew it was the devil cause he appeared in some supernatural way then obviously i wouldn't do it. but if it was the devil and he appeared as some random dude i would just assume the guy is a nut and take his money.

Originally posted by red g jacks
the way i interpreted it, it's like some dude asking you to sign a piece of paper that says "my soul" on it for a million bucks. you're basically taking the risk that it's not really the devil and that writing your name on a piece of paper that says "my soul" on it isn't really spiritually binding. so based on whatever your ideology that is either a no-brainer or maybe a little sketchy.

to me if you knew it was the devil cause he appeared in some supernatural way then obviously i wouldn't do it. but if it was the devil and he appeared as some random dude i would just assume the guy is a nut and take his money.

So, if a crazy guy came up to you and tried to buy your soul for a million dollars? You would take advantage of the man and just take his money? I'll come visit you in jail when his family calls the cops and has you arrested.

you think it's a crime to sell someone a piece of paper with writing on it?

Originally posted by red g jacks
you think it's a crime to sell someone a piece of paper with writing on it?

You just took a million from a family that most likely has more, and a line of layers. You will be in jail.

doubtful. i don't care how much money you have you couldn't make that case against me in any serious court.

Originally posted by red g jacks
doubtful. i don't care how much money you have you couldn't make that case against me in any serious court.

Think about it. How much money do you have. How many layers can you afford? They will say that you took the money, and payed witnesses will come out of nowhere.

Even if you win, they will drain you of all your money, and you will still have to pay taxes.

you might have a point. i honestly don't know cause i've never really never been in a place to need an expensive lawyer. is the system that corrupt?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Think about it. How much money do you have. How many layers can you afford? They will say that you took the money, and payed witnesses will come out of nowhere.

Even if you win, they will drain you of all your money, and you will still have to pay taxes.
Unless he gives you the money in cash, there will be a record of the money transfer that would show that it was done legitimately.

Also there's a 'w' in lawyer.

However, while I don't see any scenario where you might be imprisoned, there is a concept in contract law regarding mental competence. It isn't lawful to enter into a contract with someone mentally incompetent (i.e. insane, delusional, under the influence of something serious like anesthetic), so in this case the family would have to prove that their relative is insane and the contract would be null and void. You'd have to give the money back and you'd have your "soul" returned to you.

Edit: Okay so I did a little research, and this might not be so open and shut as I thought. Competency is defined such: (credit to Wikipedia) "Generally, in the United States, a person has the capacity or competence to make the decision to enter into a contract if the person has the ability to understand and appreciate, to the extent relevant, all of the following: (a) The rights, duties, and responsibilities created by, or affected by the decision. (b) The probable consequences for the decisionmaker and, where appropriate, the persons affected by the decision. (c) The significant risks, benefits, and reasonable alternatives involved in the decision."

With such a simple contract (a million dollars for a piece of paper saying 'my soul') it might be difficult to show that the soul buyer wasn't aware of the circumstances.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I'm not worried about a soul or about some trick. I would never involve myself in a dealing where I feel like I am taking advantage of someone. The reason is for my own selfish needs.

Let's change the scenario to get a better handle on this. Lets say I am buying a car from someone, and they are asking way too low of a price for the value of the car. Would you not tell the person you are asking too little? I would. I would feel bad if I bought a $10,000 car for $1,000. The reason is because I believe that every action I take builds my Karma. If I start to build my Karma with taking advantage of other people, what I will receive in return is being taking advantage by other people. "what you sow so shall you reap".

I am not trying to avoid your question. I am giving you my truthful answer.

I changed it tho. It's not a sale anymore. You kinda did avoid my question tho it may not have been intentional on your part. I asked if there was any scenario where you would willingly give up your "soul" in the form of it written on a piece of paper.

You seem caught up on not wanted to take advantage of people and rightfully so but say that wasn't the case. I can try to offer scenarios where it wouldn't be taking advantage of someone but I feel like you'll object based on some other reason you see it being immoral. So I just want your opinion as to if there is a situation where you would give it up without it being an issue

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Unless he gives you the money in cash, there will be a record of the money transfer that would show that it was done legitimately.

Also there's a 'w' in lawyer.

However, while I don't see any scenario where you might be imprisoned, there is a concept in contract law regarding mental competence. It isn't lawful to enter into a contract with someone mentally incompetent (i.e. insane, delusional, under the influence of something serious like anesthetic), so in this case the family would have to prove that their relative is insane and the contract would be null and void. You'd have to give the money back and you'd have your "soul" returned to you.

Edit: Okay so I did a little research, and this might not be so open and shut as I thought. Competency is defined such: (credit to Wikipedia) "Generally, in the United States, a person has the capacity or competence to make the decision to enter into a contract if the person has the ability to understand and appreciate, to the extent relevant, all of the following: (a) The rights, duties, and responsibilities created by, or affected by the decision. (b) The probable consequences for the decisionmaker and, where appropriate, the persons affected by the decision. (c) The significant risks, benefits, and reasonable alternatives involved in the decision."

With such a simple contract (a million dollars for a piece of paper saying 'my soul') it might be difficult to show that the soul buyer wasn't aware of the circumstances. sounds a bit like an easy million dollars to me. in which case shaky can eat a bag of dicks for trying to rain on my imaginary fortune.

Originally posted by juggerman
I changed it tho. It's not a sale anymore. You kinda did avoid my question tho it may not have been intentional on your part. I asked if there was any scenario where you would willingly give up your "soul" in the form of it written on a piece of paper.

You seem caught up on not wanted to take advantage of people and rightfully so but say that wasn't the case. I can try to offer scenarios where it wouldn't be taking advantage of someone but I feel like you'll object based on some other reason you see it being immoral. So I just want your opinion as to if there is a situation where you would give it up without it being an issue

Souls don't exist, so I don't have a soul to sell. And selling something that I don't have is unethical.

It is like asking me would I be willing to sell my unicorn. I don't have a unicorn. Souls are like unicorns, they are just make believe.

Originally posted by juggerman
...So I just want your opinion as to if there is a situation where you would give it up without it being an issue

Souls would have to exist, but then I wouldn't sell my soul for any money. So, no, there is no situation where I would give up my soul (if I had one). Happy?

P.S. I wouldn't sell my unicorn ether.

Ah, no thread of mine would be complete without shaky.

Originally posted by juggerman
That answers my question. Thanks for playing along.
If only it would have ended there.

Originally posted by riv6672
Ah, no thread of mine would be complete without shaky.

Why don't you ever get involved in your own threads?

Why do you care what i do in my threads?

If you dont like what i do in my threads there are 2 sure ways not to deal with it.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Souls would have to exist, but then I wouldn't sell my soul for any money. So, no, there is no situation where I would give up my soul (if I had one). Happy?

You keep saying "sell" even tho I changed it. Seems like you are unwilling to give up your soul under any means. So am I.

Talk about soul searching...!

Originally posted by red g jacks
the way i interpreted it, it's like some dude asking you to sign a piece of paper that says "my soul" on it for a million bucks. you're basically taking the risk that it's not really the devil and that writing your name on a piece of paper that says "my soul" on it isn't really spiritually binding. so based on whatever your ideology that is either a no-brainer or maybe a little sketchy.

to me if you knew it was the devil cause he appeared in some supernatural way then obviously i wouldn't do it. but if it was the devil and he appeared as some random dude i would just assume the guy is a nut and take his money.

I like how this argument regarding the supernatural is "the devil must know what he's doing", while the human obviously is stupid or playing around. So let's say the supernatural entity was a fairy so idiotic looking that kids could spit at his face and he offers you gold for a piece of paper that says soul, with no signature or whatsoever. Would you accept?

I'm starting to think a paper and a signature wouldn't be enough for you to lose your soul anyways. I'd need to check with the folklore behind devil transactions.

Originally posted by juggerman
You keep saying "sell" even tho I changed it. Seems like you are unwilling to give up your soul under any means. So am I.

If a soul existed (they don't) I would assume they have magical value of some kind. I would never get rid of my magical soul or unicorn.

Originally posted by riv6672
Why do you care what i do in my threads?

If you dont like what i do in my threads there are 2 sure ways not to deal with it.

All you do is troll.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If a soul existed (they don't) I would assume they have magical value of some kind. I would never get rid of my magical soul or unicorn.

Fair enough

Originally posted by Bentley
I like how this argument regarding the supernatural is "the devil must know what he's doing", while the human obviously is stupid or playing around. So let's say the supernatural entity was a fairy so idiotic looking that kids could spit at his face and he offers you gold for a piece of paper that says soul, with no signature or whatsoever. Would you accept?

I'm starting to think a paper and a signature wouldn't be enough for you to lose your soul anyways. I'd need to check with the folklore behind devil transactions.
It probably wouldn't be.

In most folklore, pacts are usually made official by the shedding of blood, sharing of blood, ingesting earth (Slavic tradition when making a vow), burning something, burying something, or putting something in a body of water. Or just repeating something three times.

Originally posted by Bentley
I like how this argument regarding the supernatural is "the devil must know what he's doing", while the human obviously is stupid or playing around. So let's say the supernatural entity was a fairy so idiotic looking that kids could spit at his face and he offers you gold for a piece of paper that says soul, with no signature or whatsoever. Would you accept?that's a good question but also a funny question at the same time, because i'm wondering how a supernatural entity could look retarded. or at least how it could look retarded and have me know they are a supernatural entity at the same time.

i suppose they could appear as a floating and glowing head that resembles a human head with downs syndrome. in which case no i wouldn't sell my soul to them because it would make me question my beliefs. currently i don't think i have a soul but if i find out there's a supernatural entity floating about then maybe i am wrong. i will start to doubt it and think they might have a good reason to try to trick me into selling my soul and i wouldn't trust them.

i'm not saying this is a fail safe plan either, cause really maybe the supernatural entity is god or at least the most powerful supernatural entity that exists, and by my saying no i chance getting on their bad side and having them torture me. but since i'm guessing either way i'm going to have to say my instinct would to be scared of and avoid the supernatural entity that is trying to buy my soul.

what makes you think folklore would be any more accurate as to what the real rules are on selling your soul to the devil than my made up bullshit scenarios?

Originally posted by red g jacks
... what makes you think folklore would be any more accurate as to what the real rules are on selling your soul to the devil than my made up bullshit scenarios?

Good point.

Folklore would just be older bullshit, in this case.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
All you do is troll.
If you consider me a troll and keep posting in my threads (over and over and over and over), what does that make you?

Thats a rhetorical question, shaky. I know exactly what it makes you.

Originally posted by red g jacks
what makes you think folklore would be any more accurate as to what the real rules are on selling your soul to the devil than my made up bullshit scenarios?

It's not necessarily more accurate. The reason for me to care about rules is that unlike many other folktales, selling your soul obviously spans from a very mundane concept that is obviously human. Promises, pacts, I think it's understood that there is a lot of stupid ruling about them. Similar tales such as djinns granting wishes are also pretty picky when it comes to technicalities, because at least in the tale (and in our human legal world), these pacts have to be technical.

Maybe there's a reason lawyers are joked about so often as being tied to the devil...

Originally posted by riv6672
If you consider me a troll and keep posting in my threads (over and over and over and over), what does that make you?

Thats a rhetorical question, shaky. I know exactly what it makes you.

It makes me a participant. Getting onto a thread just to attack someone makes you a troll. If you continue, I will report you.

These are MY threads YOU'RE getting on, and being confrontational in. When messed with about it, you cry troll.

There are people on the community forums i consider trolls. I choose not to "participate" in their threads. Nothing nice to say and all that. You want to argue? Fine.
Be a man and dont cry troll when you get zinged you cry baby.

Originally posted by riv6672
These are MY threads YOU'RE getting on, and being confrontational in. When messed with about it, you cry troll.

There are people on the community forums i consider trolls. I choose not to "participate" in their threads. Nothing nice to say and all that. You want to argue? Fine.
Be a man and dont cry troll when you get zinged you cry baby.

In more then one occasion you have posted antagonistic statement that include my name. That is considered to be a personal attack and it will get you banned.

You can post your snide remarks all you like, but do not include my name. I will report it!

Shaky, shaky, shaky...

Originally posted by riv6672
Shaky, shaky, shaky...

I'm not arguing with you, or joking. Saying my name is just fine. Personal attacks is a different matter.

Forum Guidelines & Rules

Courtesy
Don't attack others. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully ... without insult and personal attack.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/misc.php?action=rules

So, you've called me a troll several times now, shaky.
Shaky, i'm taking these incidents as personal attacks, as i believe you're using the term erroneously, and, more importantly, shaky, knowingly, to allow yourself to be confrontational.
So, shaky, i'm warning you right now, to stop baiting me into these confrontations by calling me a troll.
Failure to do so will result in me reporting you to the proper authorities. They can decide who's in the right.

Originally posted by riv6672
So, you've called me a troll several times now, shaky.
Shaky, i'm taking these incidents as personal attacks, as i believe you're using the term erroneously, and, more importantly, shaky, knowingly, to allow yourself to be confrontational.
So, shaky, i'm warning you right now, to stop baiting me into these confrontations by calling me a troll.
Failure to do so will result in me reporting you to the proper authorities. They can decide who's in the right.

Your approach to this problem is childish. I've tried to work with you, but you refuse to simple restrain from attacking me. Please do not continue.

Whatever, shaky.

I used the proper channels here and was told if i had a problem with a poster to use the ignore button.

Thats good advice; the mods arent baby sitters and we are all, supposedly adults.

So, you consider me a troll, but keep posting in my threads where i'm supposedly being antagonistic while using your name.

This is the SECOND time i'm telling you:
There are two sure ways to not deal with this. Dont come in my threads. though if you find them so fascinating you just have to participate, put me on ignore.

Please, report me so the mods can read this thread and see how hilariously churlish you're being. Maybe they can get through to you.

Originally posted by riv6672
Whatever, shaky.

I used the proper channels here and was told if i had a problem with a poster to use the ignore button.

Thats good advice; the mods arent baby sitters and we are all, supposedly adults.

So, you consider me a troll, but keep posting in my threads where i'm supposedly being antagonistic while using your name.

This is the SECOND time i'm telling you:
There are two sure ways to not deal with this. Dont come in my threads. though if you find them so fascinating you just have to participate, put me on ignore.

Please, report me so the mods can read this thread and see how hilariously churlish you're being. Maybe they can get through to you.

It is really simply. All you have to do is stop attacking me, and we will be fine. I am not asking too much. I, in return, will leave you alone.

As far as I know, you have no right to stop someone from posting in your threads. Maybe the best thing you can do is place me on your ignore list. That would be fine with me as long as you stop attacking me.

All I want is to be free of your attacks.

Nope, cant make you not post in my threads, just pointing out that if you do, you can put me on ignore if i bother you so much. Though really, that seems asinine.

I have no problem with you so no, not putting you on ignore.

I am however going to report this myself.

Originally posted by riv6672
Nope, cant make you not post in my threads, just pointing out that if you do, you can put me on ignore if i bother you so much. Though really, that seems asinine.

I have no problem with you so no, not putting you on ignore.

I am however going to report this myself.

I'm not attacking you. All I am doing trying to solve a problem. Why do you refuse to simply say that you will not personally attack me? If it makes you feel better, you can say "I never personally attacked you, and will not personally attack you in the future".

Otherwise I feel like you are just leaving the door open for you to personally attack me in the future. Just please do me a favor, and tell me that you will not personally attack me in the future, and we can forget the past. Doesn't that sound reasonable to you?

Originally posted by riv6672
I am however going to report this myself.
Done.

Originally posted by riv6672
Done.

Okay. As long as you stop personally attacking me, I'm fine.

Well, you'll be watched from now on (in my threads) to make sure you practice what you preach. Or not.
With that in mind this is my last word on the matter.

On Topic: for a variety of reasons, some of which i never would have thought of, seems almost no one would actually sell their soul.
Thanks for the input. This'll be useful for me down the road!

Originally posted by riv6672
Well, you'll be watched from now on (in my threads) to make sure you practice what you preach. Or not.
With that in mind this is my last word on the matter.

On Topic: for a variety of reasons, some of which i never would have thought of, seems almost no one would actually sell their soul.
Thanks for the input. This'll be useful for me down the road!

I feel like on some level even those that claim they "know there is no such thing as a soul" still would not risk selling theirs in case they are wrong. Seems interesting and kinda underminds them being in the "know" imo.

That was my thinking too, now that all the regulars have weighed in.
I cant really blame them though, or get on a high horse. I wouldnt do it either!

You should do one about adoring a statue and getting a testament from an old dying man who wants his image worshipped

Looks like you have a handle on THAT one!

Originally posted by juggerman
I feel like on some level even those that claim they "know there is no such thing as a soul" still would not risk selling theirs in case they are wrong. Seems interesting and kinda underminds them being in the "know" imo.

I feel the same way about unicorns. No one would ever get rid of their unicorn.

If you make up something of value, like a soul, don't be surprised when people who don't believe in it wouldn't want to get rid of it. That's human nature, not an indication that a magical soul exists.

Originally posted by riv6672
Well, you'll be watched from now on (in my threads) to make sure you practice what you preach. Or not.
With that in mind this is my last word on the matter...

You are not a moderator. If you threaten me, or personally attack me, I will report you.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I feel the same way about unicorns. No one would ever get rid of their unicorn.

I would since I'm 100% sure there is no such thing.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If you make up something of value, like a soul, don't be surprised when people who don't believe in it wouldn't want to get rid of it. That's human nature, not an indication that a magical soul exists.

Not saying it's an indication that it exists, just an indication that you are less than 100% sure in your beliefs. I'm not knocking you at all tho. If I thought there was even the slightest chance of unicorns being real I wouldn't sell mine either.

Originally posted by juggerman
I would since I'm 100% sure there is no such thing.



Not saying it's an indication that it exists, just an indication that you are less than 100% sure in your beliefs. I'm not knocking you at all tho. If I thought there was even the slightest chance of unicorns being real I wouldn't sell mine either.

I have a vivid imagination. I had a talk with a friend the other day about who was faster, superman or the flash. That doesn't mean that I am less then 100% sure they don't exist.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I have a vivid imagination. I had a talk with a friend the other day about who was faster, superman or the flash. That doesn't mean that I am less then 100% sure they don't exist.

False equivalency. Besides Flash is faster.

Originally posted by juggerman
False equivalency. Besides Flash is faster.
But superman can go back in time and cross the finish line before the flash.

Originally posted by juggerman
False equivalency...

I can imagine believing in a soul, because long ago I did. I have also seen a lot of movies and popular culture that showed how bad selling your soul is. So, even though I am 100% sure that souls do not exist, I would still not sell mine. That is a result of the effect of popular culture not doubt about my beliefs.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But superman can go back in time and cross the finish line before the flash.

Or like this:

http://youtu.be/6EWubLFVgRc

Originally posted by juggerman
Or like this:

http://youtu.be/6EWubLFVgRc


We concluded that it all boiled do to rather superman wanted to cheat or not.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I can imagine believing in a soul, because long ago I did. I have also seen a lot of movies and popular culture that showed how bad selling your soul is. So, even though I am 100% sure that souls do not exist, I would still not sell mine. That is a result of the effect of popular culture not doubt about my beliefs.

I still see it as a doubt. I can totally understand what you are saying but it just comes off a bit weak to me. As stated earlier, I personally would not have an issue with "parting" with something that doesn't exist. Especially if it benefits me in some way since my non existant item doesn't. So if I truly believed without a doubt there was no soul, than I wouldn't care about selling it off. Like a unicorn.

So the fact that you won't tells me you aren't 100%. I admit I could be very wrong in this but that's the way it seems to me.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

We concluded that it all boiled do to rather superman wanted to cheat or not.

Flash could cheat too. And would be more likely since Superman is much more of a 'boy scout". But either way Superman is the top dog!

Originally posted by juggerman
I still see it as a doubt. I can totally understand what you are saying but it just comes off a bit weak to me. As stated earlier, I personally would not have an issue with "parting" with something that doesn't exist. Especially if it benefits me in some way since my non existant item doesn't. So if I truly believed without a doubt there was no soul, than I wouldn't care about selling it off. Like a unicorn.

So the fact that you won't tells me you aren't 100%. I admit I could be very wrong in this but that's the way it seems to me.

There is also the point of selling nothing for something, which I find unethical.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is also the point of selling nothing for something, which I find unethical.

Yes and on that point you have my full understanding and respect. Which is why I changed it you "giving" instead of "selling"

Hey Shaky, would you sell Karma? Idk if there is any legend or story about anything like that but say someone offered you money or service in exchange for some of your good Karma? Or bad Karma if you don't want to give up the good.

And if selling it is unethical, how about just giving it up? I would think you'd want as little bad Karma as possible right?

That's of course if you believe in two different types and not just one that builds and declines depending on your actions. Just throwing it out there.

Originally posted by juggerman
Hey Shaky, would you sell Karma? Idk if there is any legend or story about anything like that but say someone offered you money or service in exchange for some of your good Karma? Or bad Karma if you don't want to give up the good.

And if selling it is unethical, how about just giving it up? I would think you'd want as little bad Karma as possible right?

That's of course if you believe in two different types and not just one that builds and declines depending on your actions. Just throwing it out there.

I don't know, let me think about it.

Originally posted by juggerman
Thank you. Why wouldn't you give away your bad Karma? Would that invite more bad Karma?

Yes.

Originally posted by juggerman
To give away your good Karma you actually pray or is that just the name while you do something else entirely?

We chant, recite two chapters of the Lotus Sutra and prey. This is called Gongyo.

http://www.sgilibrary.org/search_dict.php?id=899

Karma's a little be-yotch.

Originally posted by Bentley
It's not necessarily more accurate. The reason for me to care about rules is that unlike many other folktales, selling your soul obviously spans from a very mundane concept that is obviously human. Promises, pacts, I think it's understood that there is a lot of stupid ruling about them. Similar tales such as djinns granting wishes are also pretty picky when it comes to technicalities, because at least in the tale (and in our human legal world), these pacts have to be technical. i get the part about obvious human influence but i feel the same sort of way about god. it really makes sense to us that an intelligence would create everything around us cause we use our intelligence to create things all the time. so god gets personified. doesn't make god impossible though, and likewise while selling your soul might seem a petty or uniquely human idea it doesn't make it impossible. and i would have to wonder what would motivate a supernatural entity to try to buy my soul if it was really all that meaningless.

Depends how you define meaningless.
All supernatural supposition is based on these beings, from god to the devil, everything in between, thinking like we do.
Its sort of like attributing malevolent intent on a bear or wolf, big cat, thats stalking your village eating your animals and other people.
Its us trying to feel better by making sense if something that to us, doesnt.

If some...entity wanted something ethereal from us, there's really no way for us to know ANYthing for sure.