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-Dooku and Grievous have 1 week prep. time.

-Leader : Count Dooku

-Co Leader : General Grievous

-15 Battle Droids

-10 Magnaguards

-Preparation ; Dooku and Grievous calculated every fighting scenario against Darth Sidious, Grievous is ready to sacrifice himself in the battle for the victory and Droids are programmed to kill.

-Fight takes place in : Dooku's Serenno Office (same place he fought against 3 nightsisters)

-RotS Sheev

Sidious.

So you think these guys combined strength is inferior to amped Mace Windu ?

w1K1LWxJF9M

Even if it wasn't. most of the other side could be one shotted. Especially in a narrow combat space.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Even if it wasn't. most of the other side could be one shotted. Especially in a narrow combat space.

Not while Count Dooku is pressing in him.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Not while Count Dooku is pressing in him.
Dooku wouldn't have the chance. It's not like they haven't fought before.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Even if it wasn't. most of the other side could be one shotted. Especially in a narrow combat space.

Eh, that's fine, the point of the droids is to tire him out and make him use energy so that he's slower when he does face Grievous and Dooku.





10 Magnaguard and Grievous is enough to let him have the chance.

Originally posted by Q99
10 Magnaguard and Grievous is enough to let him have the chance.
It really isn't.

Sidious wrecks. All he really needs to do is throw Dooku head first into a wall or crush his windpipe, and then unleash the full might of lightning on the rest. His lightsaber would be redundant.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It really isn't.

It's not like Sidious can take 'em piece by pierce (I mean, if he could, he'd win as solidly as you say), he'll have to defend against a whole lot of stuff at the same time, often while blocking attacks from Dooku.


Dooku was able to hold off Yoda, so it's not like he's easy for Sidious either.

Mm, thinking about it more, there *is* the fact that Sidious has a big force edge, and only Dooku has force defense....

If Sidious goes nova and uses tons of power to kill all the droids and Grievous fast, he'll be tired... but will that be tired enough?


There is the very major matter that Dooku and Grievous get to plan this for a *week*. Meaning, they'll decide the order in which the attacks happen. They don't have to jam in the office all at once. They can hold some forces in reserve to jump in only after Sidious has engaged Dooku, and such.


If Sheev got to set the pace, I agree he could probably figure a way to handle the numbers, but the setup is an advantage to the team.

To be honest if Sidious was so inclined, he could operate at fast enough speeds so that nobody here could clearly perceive him. He could wreck most of the cannon fodder that way and I doubt Dooku and Grievous would be fast enough to really prevent it. Grievous is easy to take out - no telekinetic defence and vital organs that can be crushed on whim. Then Dooku can basically be wiped out through the Force or in a duel... I can't think of a plan where the team could plausibly win this, and Sidious has pretty impressive foresight anyway.

The Sidious wank is getting a bit ridiculous on this page.

Sidious still takes this.

*Force Wave/ Lightning annihilates the droids.

Grievous and Dooku cannot hope to fight against the Dark Lord. Hell Dooku, Grievous, and Ventress cannot hope to fight against him, Dooku knew this.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Sidious still takes this.

*Force Wave/ Lightning annihilates the droids.

Grievous and Dooku cannot hope to fight against the Dark Lord. Hell Dooku, Grievous, and Ventress cannot hope to fight against him, Dooku knew this.

I doubt it. Blitzing 3 Council Members left him vulnerable to Windu. Here he has to blitz a heck of a lot more in terms of numbers.

Even if he manages it, he will either be left open to an attack by Dooku + Grievous or he'll be weakened enough for the duo to take him.

Originally posted by ILS
To be honest if Sidious was so inclined, he could operate at fast enough speeds so that nobody here could clearly perceive him.

... no, just no.

The gap between him and Dooku is not that big. The gap between him and Maul wasn't that big. Heck, the gap between him and Fisto wasn't that big, Fisto was able to react, and I refuse to believe Kit Fisto is > Darth Tyrannus.





Again, Dooku gets to set the plan. So they can minimize opportunity of that/make sure if it happens, Dooku should be in position to take advantage of that distracting whim.



Well, that's because you're letting Sidious pick who he engages in what order, when the scenario is the opposite.



Lesse, if I were Dooku... I'd send in 2 waves of droids (say, 3 battle and 3 magna, battle positioned as shields to give the magna slightly more survival time, then another wave of the same thing), which gets sabered and force-smashed of course, this is just a warmup/to get him to spend a little effort, then Dooku engages, then Grievous and the remaining droids jump in while he's already got a Dooku to deal with, ready to take advantage of distractions. Then, sure, Sidious will be using the force to take out each of the four remaining magna and Grievous, in turn, but each force attack gives more opportunity for everyone else to attack. Crush Grievous's organs and that's when Dooku + whatever Magnas survive attacking at full.

Finally, you have the remaining Battledroids positioned at the door of the room, if Sidious manages to get disarmed at some point- something that has happened to him before- their instruction is to hose him down.

Where did I say that Dooku wouldn't be able to react? All I said was that he wouldn't be able to clearly perceive Sidious. You know, like the B-Team, Windu, Maul and Anakin all failed to do? Dooku isn't going to be mounting much of an offence against a blur. And Maul was drawing far more heavily on Dark Rage while he fought Sidious as per Shadow Conspiracy, which would amplify his physical stats higher than normal and there was still "too many blades to count, and then there was more than that"

Could you please explain to me how exactly they are going to prepare for Sidious negligibly crushing Grievous' internal organs? It would take less than a second to carry out.

What effort lol? Do you realize how easy it would be for Sidious to destroy those droids? Come on, now...

Dooku engages.. okay.. so what's stopping Sidious from picking the good Count up and directing him into Sidious' lightsaber blade, or throwing him into a wall hard enough to knock him out like he did to Maul, or eviscerating him with lightning that only Yoda could stalemate, ect? He could take out Dooku so negligibly it's not even worth discussing, and bringing Grievous into the room just to have his organs squished into a pulp adds nothing. Or Sidious could ragdoll Grievous and the rest of the droids. Or whatever, shit I don't know, this scenario could be played out in any number of ways but the simple fact remains that Sidious isn't going to be under much stress here...

You're acting like Sidious can't squish Grievous' organs and then react to whatever Dooku or the droids send his way. It'd take less than a second to wreck Grievous, and by then Dooku could be ragdolled with TK and held infront of the blaster bolts like a ****ing meatshield. There is just no plausible way for the team to win this when Dooku can dispatch them so negligibly...

You're totally right. Blaster bolts are going to be Sidious' undoing.

Originally posted by ILS
Where did I say that Dooku wouldn't be able to react? All I said was that he wouldn't be able to clearly perceive Sidious. You know, like the B-Team, Windu, Maul and Anakin all failed to do? Dooku isn't going to be mounting much of an offence against a blur. And Maul was drawing far more heavily on Dark Rage while he fought Sidious as per Shadow Conspiracy, which would amplify his physical stats higher than normal and there was still "too many blades to count, and then there was more than that"



LOL Of course they can all "perceive" Sidious. They can all perceive blaster bolts. So there's no reason at all why they can't perceive a guy with a bit of superhuman mobility and agility.

Lol @ Windu failing to perceive Sidious. He put Sidious on his ass!

Stop clinging to the non-canon version of the Sidious vs Maul fight. Maul never fought with 1 blade, he fought with 2. Sidious never disarmed Maul via a speed blitz. He disarmed him with superior strength in a blade lock.

In fact in that whole final fight, Rage enhanced Maul was fighting at the same speed as Sidious and with very similar looking skill and movements (kind of like Kenobi vs Anakin actually).

I suppose what happens now is I unload every instance of Sidious moving too fast for these characters to see, and you stick your fingers in your ears and scream "non-canon! lalalala", right?

Under very, very special circumstances.

There's no such thing as "non-canon", unless you're talking about the inifinities timeline. There's canon, and then there's Legends, both which have their own canonicity. I go by Legends when I debate, it's as simple as that. I distinguish between the two and generally hate TCW. So now that we've established that, would you like to debate Legends with me, or are you to run around like a fruitcake whining about canon and clinging to everything the animation shows you like a mindless minion?

With a week of prep the team sets up rayshields and trap Sidious immediately.

Sidious' TK can't be blocked by a ray shield.

Yeah but maybe they could drop a few hundred thermal detonators in there or vent him into the warp core/space or whatever the ****.

This is getting pretty speculative. They're getting their hands on a rayshield that can withstand a few hundred thermal detonators and setting it all up in a week?

Why couldn't Sidious just tk the thermal detonators back over the shield back at them?

Dooku and GG are the leaders of a trillion-strong, intergalactic empire. They could probably set this up in a day.

Rayshields go from the floor to the ceiling. Theres no up to throw them over.

Suppose if Sidious started the fight trapped by a ray shield that he is sharing with hundreds of thermal detonators he would lose.

Woo.

That's the issue with giving extensive prep to people with almost unlimited resources.

Realistically though, Sidious wouldn't let himself get into such a position.. You actually need to just put him in it for the discussion to happen.

Originally posted by ILS
I suppose what happens now is I unload every instance of Sidious moving too fast for these characters to see, and you stick your fingers in your ears and scream "non-canon! lalalala", right?


Yeah, basically.

Even the new canon had Kanan perceiving blaster bolts in slow motion, barely moving his head to dodge multiple of them at once. However, that whole scene was shown to the audience in slow motion, so it's safe to say Kanan and the blaster bolts were moving a just little faster than snails.

Team easily.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yeah, basically.

Even the new canon had Kanan perceiving blaster bolts in slow motion, barely moving his head to dodge multiple of them at once. However, that whole scene was shown to the audience in slow motion, so it's safe to say Kanan and the blaster bolts were moving a just little faster than snails.


This would also suggest that Kanan's reaction speed is beyond top of the chain council members, since he was able to dodge multiple blaster bolts just by moving his head slightly, whereas Tiin and Kolar couldn't even react to the speed of an old man.

Then again, as I said, that scene with Kanan was shown in slow motion, so perhaps they are equal in speed.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yeah, basically.

Even the new canon had Kanan perceiving blaster bolts in slow motion, barely moving his head to dodge multiple of them at once. However, that whole scene was shown to the audience in slow motion, so it's safe to say Kanan and the blaster bolts were moving a just little faster than snails. Exactly. That's why all Jedi and Sith have regular human speed. Because from the viewers perspective of the movies and animations they move that fast.

Shadow Conspiracy says nothing about Force Rage or Dark Rage (TPM novel clearly says Obi-Wan was using force rage for example, however Shadow Conspiracy says nothing about Maul's rage.) , even without rage amplification in the Novel, Maul managed to dodge from two attacks of Sidious in a one-on-one duel, with Dark Rage amplification in the canon TV show, (which gives you superior speed and strength for a while) he managed to kick Sidious's torso and make blade lock with him. Fisto managed to stay alive for a while, when Windu was helping him in a 2 v 1 in the book, in the canon movie he managed to deflect 3 attacks from Sidious. Dooku can certainly react to Sidious.

Originally posted by ILS
Exactly. That's why all Jedi and Sith have regular human speed. Because from the viewers perspective of the movies and animations they move that fast.

Not quite sure why people are failing to grasp that this wasn't the point I was trying to put forward. Sure, Dooku can react. He just won't be able to perceive - you know, with his eyes - Sidious clearly. Which gives Sidious a pretty obvious advantage.

Originally posted by ILS
Sure, Dooku can react. He just won't be able to perceive - you know, with his eyes - Sidious clearly.


Dooku must be pretty blind then.