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Anime and Manga fts are accepted here since Ironman has a history of fts to pull from.

Everyone already knows who my debate is for. Let's begin.

Which Iron Man, just to be certain?

They both have a history of feats. I thought you don't make threads where you already have a clear winner in mind?

Per some people, this is debatable and this is your standard every day Ironman.

Hm.. I /think/ Stark is slower but with drastically faster reactions. He would lack the raw force, unless he brings out this hax I've been hearing about like black holes.

Can't say too much on his other armour. Though if the Hulkbuster can stand up to WWH (even to be swiftly defeated), and Thorbuster can do the same with King (?) Thor.. then tables will turn.


Edit: Assuming 'standard everyday' means his main armour only.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Hm.. I /think/ Stark is slower but with drastically faster reactions. He would lack the raw force, unless he brings out this hax I've been hearing about like black holes.

Can't say too much on his other armour. Though if the Hulkbuster can stand up to WWH (even to be swiftly defeated), and Thorbuster can do the same with King (?) Thor.. then tables will turn.


Edit: Assuming 'standard everyday' means his main armour only.

What reaction fts does he have over Goku?

He can think/comp in picoseconds. And thats the same compmind that can scan to locate weaknesses and predict movements.

Doing some searching, his hax would be highly effective.

Originally posted by BloodRain
He can think/comp in picoseconds. And thats the same compmind that can scan to locate weaknesses and predict movements.

Doing some searching, his hax would be highly effective.

So you're using a statement as facts? With that said, Goku as a Kid was faster than lightning and would be a snail to his teen self.

What else do you have?

Also, if Goku just vanish right in front of him, prove that Ironman would be able to detect him. Hell, prove that Ironman could hurt him (the same guy that tanked an attack that leveled an island). Provide scans as well.

There's a difference between stating figures to saying common trope phrases. Examples being Supersonic, Light speed, megaton (usually on attacks, hotter than the sun.

Apparently he can track teleportation, so that could be a thorn there. And damage? I never said damage, I said Hax. Though apparently his full charged attacks can rival higher tier characters. Anyhow, things like the nanites or brain hacking. Never thought Stark was that powerful..


I can already see you trying to put me in the push me to the IM side so you have someone to argue against. Will play though.

Edit : any word on hulkbuster or thorbuster?

End of DB as in end of part 1 or end of part 2? Manga was just called DB instead of DB and DBZ like the anime so maybe clarify on that.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
End of DB as in end of part 1 or end of part 2? Manga was just called DB instead of DB and DBZ like the anime so maybe clarify on that.

End of Dragonball, the entire run...no DBZ here.

Originally posted by BloodRain
There's a difference between stating figures to saying common trope phrases. Examples being Supersonic, Light speed, megaton (usually on attacks, hotter than the sun.

Apparently he can track teleportation, so that could be a thorn there. And damage? I never said damage, I said Hax. Though apparently his full charged attacks can rival higher tier characters. Anyhow, things like the nanites or brain hacking. Never thought Stark was that powerful..


I can already see you trying to put me in the push me to the IM side so you have someone to argue against. Will play though.

Edit : any word on hulkbuster or thorbuster?

So he doesn't have the fts, he basically have statements?

Scans of him tracking teleportation.

Lol...naah...you voted for Ironman, so we are having a casual debate. Nanites won't work and he has to tag Goku to do something like that.

Those Ironman are not usable here.

Dude.. you jump the bone of DB when it says common phrases like "fast as lightning" or "light speed punch".. yet the genius mind melded to a computer saying picoseconds is too far and beyond belief?

Pfft, I'm just the info passer, not the guys with comic folders. If I search and find one later I'll let ya know, but it seems like everyone has seen it. (Later)

First post was just posting things about IM while preassuming Goku would crush him.. Yes, a tag, or equally take a single physical hit from Goku. Then he'd be infected and be on his route to death, right?

In Ironman case, i do think the picosecond history is weird/outlier.
A part from that he never displayed reactions in that level (not like Superman who have alot FTL feats).

Maybe he could calculate/process something in that speed, but i dont think this will help much during a fight.

I think Goku wins this fight because Ironman lack durability to tank his attacks.

He's already flown to and from the sun, among other feats. This is far faster than what End of DB Goku has on him.

For durability he's already taken blows from guys like Surfer, Thor and Sentry, and surviving things like black hole bombs etc which is without activating his powerful shields.And I'd say absorption seems to come before durability. His suit can take in huge levels of energy (that of Terrax, Thor, Sentry, Surfer) to either amp up or redirect the attack. This cripples the effectiveness of energy attacks in nearly all situations.


On the other hand Stark still has black hole, anti-matter and atomic shredding weapons at his disposal, along with brain hacking and nanomachines that would steal a win the second they enter Goku's body.

Originally posted by BloodRain
He's already flown to and from the sun, among other feats. This is far faster than what End of DB Goku has on him.

For durability he's already taken blows from guys like Surfer, Thor and Sentry, and surviving things like black hole bombs etc which is without activating his powerful shields.And I'd say absorption seems to come before durability. His suit can take in huge levels of energy (that of Terrax, Thor, Sentry, Surfer) to either amp up or redirect the attack. This cripples the effectiveness of energy attacks in nearly all situations.


On the other hand Stark still has black hole, anti-matter and atomic shredding weapons at his disposal, along with brain hacking and nanomachines that would steal a win the second they enter Goku's body.

Flight and reaction speed are two different things.

He isn't tanking Goku blows and Goku energy attacks will hurt him. If he was as durable as you say he is, he wouldn't have to shield against a Nuke, something that Goku can tank easily.

Never used a black hole or atomic shredding weapon. I'm trying to think of the antimatter scene and you are obviously pointing out abilities his standard suit doesn't have. Then, he isn't touching Goku.

Goku shit stomps

Originally posted by carver9
Flight and reaction speed are two different things.

He isn't tanking Goku blows and Goku energy attacks will hurt him. If he was as durable as you say he is, he wouldn't have to shield against a Nuke, something that Goku can tank easily.

Never used a black hole or atomic shredding weapon. I'm trying to think of the antimatter scene and you are obviously pointing out abilities his standard suit doesn't have. Then, he isn't touching Goku.
Like the picosecond thought speed?

Lowballing? Cool. Face it, he's been hit but strong enough force without shields and without absorbing energy. C'mon its only DB Goku afterall.

Ive seen several credible people bring it up so.. tbh I'd trust their words on this situation.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Like the picosecond thought speed?

Lowballing? Cool. Face it, he's been hit but strong enough force without shields and without absorbing energy. C'mon its only DB Goku afterall.

Ive seen several credible people bring it up so.. tbh I'd trust their words on this situation.

Did he move in Pico seconds or was it Tony just boasting? He isn't close to Goku in speed, let alone Roshi who did an entire martial arts tournament in less than a second.

He has been hit by powerful forces but he isn't tanking Goku hits...at all. Especially loads of them.

So you're bringing up fts you have no idea about? Gotcha. Goku wins.

Reactions.. literally just said it. That added to those'ftl feats. Lol that Roshi scene is nothing. In that 0.2 seconds they each made around 20-25 separate movements. An average human can make 1 movement in 0.2 seconds. That only clocks in at 250m/s.. pushing to mach 1 at the very best.

The Goku who can who would have to charge to get close to planetary? Even if his full blast is the win-weapon, that charge, especially after seeing normal ki attacks, will be enough for StarStark to analyse the attack. That's if the bulk isn't absorbed.

Tbh I rank their credibility above those in this thread, all I need. So that's a few things that take him down sorted.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Reactions.. literally just said it. That added to those'ftl feats. Lol that Roshi scene is nothing. In that 0.2 seconds they each made around 20-25 separate movements. An average human can make 1 movement in 0.2 seconds. That only clocks in at 250m/s.. pushing to mach 1 at the very best.

The Goku who can who would have to charge to get close to planetary? Even if his full blast is the win-weapon, that charge, especially after seeing normal ki attacks, will be enough for StarStark to analyse the attack. That's if the bulk isn't absorbed.

Tbh I rank their credibility above those in this thread, all I need. So that's a few things that take him down sorted.

Are you really lowballing the Roshi showing? They were TAUNTING each other during this as well along with having conversation and fighting. You honestly can't believe the stuff you say about DBZ sometimes, can you?

Who said anything about charge attacks? A standard blast from Goku should be able to destroy Ironman. Do you honestly believe it takes planetary power to stop Ironman because if so, I have a load of scans to show you. Hell, on average, it doesn't take planetary power to stop the best of Heralds.

Stark isn't analyzing anything from Goku, someone that could punch him 20 times before he realized he was in a fight.

Who credibility because of they are from the anime forum, it's rare that they read anything on American comics.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Reactions.. literally just said it. That added to those'ftl feats. Lol that Roshi scene is nothing. In that 0.2 seconds they each made around 20-25 separate movements. An average human can make 1 movement in 0.2 seconds. That only clocks in at 250m/s.. pushing to mach 1 at the very best.

I'm more impressed by Roshi's casual machinegun bullet catch, personally. Because it's one of few concrete speed examples in the series.

Never thought I'd see a threat arguing Ironman's super speed.

Yeah, his armor flies insanely fast, and yes, his modern armor's enhance his reflex's to such heights that Spidey and Iron Fist can't really blitz him anymore... But to read this thread, you'd think he could blitz Thor, who has much better straight line movement feats, but himself isn't anywhere near the lightspeed. (Notwithstanding feats like stopping Quicksilver when the Avengers were torturing Loki, but that's a pretty obvious outlier...)

Originally posted by carver9
Are you really lowballing the Roshi showing? They were TAUNTING each other during this as well along with having conversation and fighting. You honestly can't believe the stuff you say about DBZ sometimes, can you?

Who said anything about charge attacks? A standard blast from Goku should be able to destroy Ironman. Do you honestly believe it takes planetary power to stop Ironman because if so, I have a load of scans to show you. Hell, on average, it doesn't take planetary power to stop the best of Heralds.

Stark isn't analyzing anything from Goku, someone that could punch him 20 times before he realized he was in a fight.

Who credibility because of they are from the anime forum, it's rare that they read anything on American comics.

Honestly. I'll show you the play-by-play, so if you find something you think is wrong please share:
Roshi did max 12 movements, though some would take much longer than a punch, so 20; Running 3, kick 1, tongue 1, pull back 1, "I'm gonna go with this" 2, announce game 2, cock back 1, throw scissors 1, point 1, "gave me an opening" 2, jump kick 2, landing away 3.

Doing 20 movements in 0.2 seconds means 0.01 seconds per movement. For a 1 meter punch that's 100m/s.

You'll notice that I did not include the planning period. Why? Because Krillen states that the planning stage took 0.2 seconds. At this point I can only assume the action period was around the same time as the thinking. And don't ask such rhetorical questions where on the same page I found that info from, you were calling this "almost damn near a nano second feat", which would require 200,000,000 movements in 0.2 seconds..

So let me know where the fault in this is.



I'm saying that at this point his casual blasts didn't hold that much of a punch. Tbh I'm having trouble remembering Goku using any casual ki attacks that weren't the KMHMH at this point. Even so, comparing to Piccolo's casual attacks leads to this train of thought.

Why not? At this stage he's been calced to be Mach 89.

NF, so all verses. Where people may not like their calcs, the known credible ones always give reliable verse info.

Goku wins. Cmon now

Goku, even Roshi at full power is a moon buster. Pretty sure End of DB Goku is stronger than that.