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Could the Sith'ari take this team?

Prolly not, no.

BROTHERS SLAUGHTERHOUSE

Bane would be pressured by Savage alone, add Maul to the equation and Bane gets a ticket to ragdoll city.

What if instead of Maul I replace him with Ventress?

They'd still slaughter Bane.

Bane is an inferior duelist, slower, and far less skilled than Ventress. If the match was Qui Gon Jinn and TPM Kenobi he might get a few rounds though. Ventress can dodge his lightning, absorb his TK with a force shield, and dance around him while Savage sends him flying with TK.

Man, it's hard to find a match-up for Bane.

Qui Gon Jinn/Quinlan Vos/Darth Wyyrlok/Darth Malak would be good matches for Bane imo, he just doesn't hold a candle to tier 8/tier 9 duelists or powerful force anomalies

My tiering differs from Carthage's a fair amount.

I'm with Newguy on 'probably not.' I don't think it'll be a slaughter, but it is two strong foes who work well together. Maybe if Bane gets lucky, but he's not as overpowering in the force as Sids was, and Sids' force powers is the main reason he was able to handle them like he did. Somewhat lower dueling at the same time, and it's a rough situation.

Bane kicks their asses. Merchant, I'm worried that you're not being ironic here and are actually listening to carthage's bs.

This will be good battle. I believe that Darth Bane have a chance of victory.

Savage would be instantly taken out by lightning. Then Maul vs Bane is a very short fight.

Brothers stomps hard this one.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Brothers stomps hard this one.

Nah, Bane kicks their hides and play around with them Sidious style.

Sidious didn't play with them though. They gave him a rarlly tough fite and we should ignore everything suggesting otherwise. Maul bro's = Sidious level, Bane = Ventress level Bain gets stomped.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Nah, Bane kicks their hides and play around with them Sidious style.


Savage puts up a better fight than Jedi Council did.

- Dave Filoni

Bane hardly beats Savage in a one-on-one, adding Maul into this clearly Spite.

Bane wins.

Originally posted by carthage


Bane is an inferior duelist

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane kicks their asses. Merchant, I'm worried that you're not being ironic here and are actually listening to carthage's bs.

Brothers. Savage is overkill here.

Savage is fodder here. Bane can one-shot him with lightning.

Nah.

http://www.adpulp.com/archive/2010/10/03/YBNBY.jpg

Originally posted by Nephthys
Savage is fodder here. Bane can one-shot him with lightning.

Savage literally take 4 or 5 shot from Dooku's lightning, and he still continued to fight without any damage. Bane's lightning is better than Dooku's, but he still can't one-shot someone durable as Savage Opress.

Savage would be too injured to keep fighting even if he wasn't dead or unconscious. At the least he'd be rendered insignificant to Bane and easily slain.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Savage is fodder here. Bane can one-shot him with lightning.

Like he failed to do to Hetton

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane kicks their asses. Merchant, I'm worried that you're not being ironic here and are actually listening to carthage's bs.

Bane couldn't even defeat Zannah lmao. He isn't beating Maul who is vastly more skilled, faster, stronger, and his brother.

Maul's an extremely skilled and ridiculously well trained Sith Lord. With Opress's brute force and power as back up he can easily compete against most/all the top dogs (minus Yoda and Sidious obviously).

Oh great.. the Bane crew is back.

Bane would get stomped by Maul alone, thinking he can take Savage who alone would likely either beat him or give him a good fight his hilarious

carthage has really put me off reading the Bane trilogy

Bane SLAUGHTERHOUSE.

Maul would stomp Bane hilariously in a duel, Bane got taken out by mercenaries and Sith trainees. He could barely handle anyone without an amp or nexus, the Black sun gang would probably kill Darth Bane

I believe that Savage cannot cope with Bane's lightning bursts.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I believe that Savage cannot cope with Bane's lightning bursts.
Agreed

Tell that to Hetton who dodged his lightning lmao

Savage alone rivals Bane. Adding Maul is an overkill.

Even then I'd give Savage the victory over Bane due to being more skilled, Banes lightning was dodged as well so Savage can avoid it that way

Originally posted by carthage
Even then I'd give Savage the victory over Bane due to being more skilled, Banes lightning was dodged as well so Savage can avoid it that way
True. Savage also has better TK feats.

Lol @ Savage being more skilled than Bane.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol @ Savage being more skilled than Bane.

Lol @ Bane being more skilled when he's only beaten Sirak without orbalisks.

Bane knows every move Savage can make with his saberstaff, his lightsaber mastery is vastly superior to the brutes.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane knows every move Savage can make with his saberstaff, his lightsaber mastery is vastly superior to the brutes.

None of that makes Bane more skilled that Savage, who has he beaten without or balisks or a nexus other than Featless Sirak that surpasses Plo Koon or Ventress?

Originally posted by carthage
None of that makes Bane more skilled that Savage, who has he beaten without or balisks or a nexus other than Featless Sirak that surpasses Plo Koon or Ventress?

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Actually it does but since you only count win/loss record as a way to gauge a characters skill I can see why you would be blind to the meaning of that fact

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane knows every move Savage can make with his saberstaff,

I'm not so sure about that. He's very familiar with the weapon, but Savage's application of it is somewhat non-traditional.

Bane has never beaten anyone by virtue of his skill with a lightsaber apart from Sirak and even then he was amped. His sole victories are a result of orbalisks or relying on a nexus, stop evading the point. Who has Bane beaten that surpasses Plo koon or Ventress?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I'm not so sure about that. He's very familiar with the weapon, but Savage's application of it is somewhat non-traditional.

You mean because he has basically no actual lightsaber training or grasp of the forms?

Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean because he has basically no actual lightsaber training or grasp of the forms?

Lol knowledge of forms doesnt make Bane a "skilled" duelist, it means he has technical knowledge of those forms. If he hasnt incorporated them in combat and won, who cares. By your logic Cin Drallig and Kas'im >>> other duelists like Kun or Dooku because they know more forms.

He quite obviously does, otherwise he wouldn't be able to face the bladework of Council-level duelists without being skewered.

I was more referring to the manner in which he uses the weapon--I mean, Djem So and Lus-ma with a saberstaff? That's pretty unconventional.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
He quite obviously does, otherwise he wouldn't be able to face the bladework of Council-level duelists without being skewered.

I was more referring to the manner in which he uses the weapon--I mean, Djem So and Lus-ma with a saberstaff? That's pretty unconventional.

No, not obviously. He gets by with pure power and strength coupled with whatever he learned as a Nightbrother, but it's pretty obvious that his actual training in using a lightsaber is extremely minimal. He's only been using one for a few months. He had a tiny bit of training from Dooku and probably some from Maul but it's barely a drop in the bucket.

Bane had only a few months of training and only beat Sirak, decades later in DOE there is scant evidence that he ever increased in skill. Bane gets by using nexuses and his nexus amped force abilities, so its pretty obvious the importance of his training is minimal

Originally posted by Nephthys
He's only been using a lightsaber for a few months.

The same could be said about Bane in PoD, really. He's trained under Maul and Dooku and was at least somewhat proficient in the use of polearms beforehand. Were he not adequately skilled, no, brute strength would not save him from the intricate bladework of someone like Ventress.

People still going full-retard in regards to Savage's use of a lightsaber I see.

No its just Neph

That's what I meant lol

Originally posted by NewGuy01
The same could be said about Bane in PoD, really. He's trained under Maul and Dooku and was at least somewhat proficient in the use of polearms beforehand. Were he not adequately skilled, no, brute strength would not save him from the intricate bladework of someone like Ventress.

Bane has an insane learning rate and a genius IQ though, and he spent all his time training, increasing his knowledge and power etc. Dooku obviously couldn't devote too much time to training Savage and didn't appear to anyway and we only saw Maul beat Savage up once as training to my knowledge.

I'm not saying Savage isn't adequately skilled, I was the one who brought up his Nightbrother training afterall, just that he has extremely minimal training in using a lightsaber and obviously lacks a decent grasp of the forms. He competed with Ventress with pure brute force, as is pretty clear from watching the fight imo.

You need to be a truly masterful fighter who is in perfect attunement with his weapon in order to use a Saberstaff, otherwise you're at risk of cutting yourself in half with the slightest error. Savage went from being stomped by Dooku to competing evenly with Plo Koon, Asajj Ventress and at times, Kenobi, after Maul trained him. Even if we don't know what Form he used or if he used one at all, he's pretty obviously more than just raw strength. I lose brain cells every time someone says that.

Originally posted by ILS
You need to be a truly masterful fighter who is in perfect attunement with his weapon in order to use a Saberstaff, otherwise you're at risk of cutting yourself in half with the slightest error. Savage went from being stomped by Dooku to competing evenly with Plo Koon, Asajj Ventress and at times, Kenobi, after Maul trained him. Even if we don't know what Form he used or if he used one at all, he's pretty obviously more than just raw strength. I lose brain cells every time someone says that.

And let's not forget that he defeated Adi Gallia as well. While she's not the most revered lightsaber mastery, she was noted amongst the rest of the council to have a very unorthodox fighting style.

I conceded that he was more, just not much more. Anyone with a few brain cells could look at Savage's fights and see that there's not a lot of skill in them. I'm seriously watching them all right now and he mostly just wildly swings.

Also Savage fought Ventress and Obi-Wan before his training with Maul. And he beat Adi Gallia by force pushing her into a wall and skewering her with his horns. Not with his lightsaber skill.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
And let's not forget that he defeated Adi Gallia as well. While she's not the most revered lightsaber mastery, she was noted amongst the rest of the council to have a very unorthodox fighting style. Gallia and Savage seem pretty closely matched in skill actually, which is more a feat for Gallia admittedly. Although she was stomping MagnaGuards during the Republic comic series, which may be retconned due to the fact Grievous now isn't the one who killed her, but it shows that she's still capable of doing so.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I conceded that he was more, just not much more. Anyone with a few brain cells could look at Savage's fights and see that there's not a lot of skill in them. I'm seriously watching them all right now and he mostly just wildly swings.

Also Savage fought Ventress and Obi-Wan before his training with Maul. And he beat Adi Gallia by force pushing her into a wall and skewering her with his horns. Not with his lightsaber skill. Calling them wild swings is just your interpretation, though, and they obviously get the job done regardless.

Even better, and him killing her with TK/horns doesn't negate the fact he dueled evenly with her leading up to that.

And again there is no evidence Bane increased in skill between POD and DOE. Zannah remarks his style had developed, but that means nothing due to he fact he hadnt beaten anyone to show that he had become a better swordsman wijiut a nexus or orbalisks

Originally posted by ILS
Calling them wild swings is just your interpretation, though, and they obviously get the job done regardless.

Even better, and him killing her with TK/horns doesn't negate the fact he dueled evenly with her leading up to that.

I know. I haven't stated that Savage is a shitty fighter or anything, he's competed with enough respectable duelists to establish the opposite of that. All I'm saying is that he likely has a minimal grasp of lightsaber forms and techniques.

Sure, but not necessarily due to his skill. Savage is a massive, sorcery-empowered monster. That is what makes him a good fighter, not his skill with a blade.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I know. I haven't stated that Savage is a shitty fighter or anything, he's competed with enough respectable duelists to establish the opposite of that. All I'm saying is that he likely has a minimal grasp of lightsaber forms and techniques.

Sure, but not necessarily due to his skill. Savage is a massive, sorcery-empowered monster. That is what makes him a good fighter, not his skill with a blade.

You havent even established that Bane is a skilled duelist himself. You keep harping on what you presume is his "minimal grasp",yet you have posted nothing other than presumptions regarding Bane's own knowledge of form. In spite of Savage's lack of "refinement", his showings against Ventress and Plo are superior showings to Banes lackthereof.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I know. I haven't stated that Savage is a shitty fighter or anything, he's competed with enough respectable duelists to establish the opposite of that. All I'm saying is that he likely has a minimal grasp of lightsaber forms and techniques. He's actually used some pretty advanced saber techniques.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4205736-cho+mai+hand+cut.png http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/3831337-savage+vs+tatsu2.jpg

Neph keeps myopically focusing on Savage in spite of the fact Maul is fighting too

Originally posted by ILS
He's actually used some pretty advanced saber techniques.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4205736-cho+mai+hand+cut.png http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/3831337-savage+vs+tatsu2.jpg

Or he just cut off someone's hand. You don't need a high level of lightsaber skill to do that against an outclassed opponent.

Lol at Savage being one-shot with lightning. Last time Opress got electrocuted, he started Force choking and throwing main characters right and left.

Bane's lightning outclasses Dooku's.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Or he just cut off someone's hand. You don't need a high level of lightsaber skill to do that against an outclassed opponent. Sourcebook disagrees bro :/

Originally posted by ILS
Sourcebook disagrees bro :/
To be honest I don't know what author of that book was smoking. Attacking wrist is the most easy and obvious target as unlike other body parts it is most often in range of attack. During friendly shinai sparrings my fingers and hands were getting hurt the most.

It's said it's considered a mark of a master, not that it's required. Luke sure wasn't using skill when he cut off Vader's hand.

Isn't a viable comparison. Savage wasn't in a Force-amped condition facing an opponent who was already beaten down. He simply showed knowledge of a masterful lightsaber technique by removing Tatsu's sword hand. Not too much more to it than that really.

I didn't compare it, I brought it up for how you don't need l33t skillz to hack off a ducking hand. I could freaking do that.

Cutting off someones hand isn't necessarily a masterful lightsaber technique.

Savage simply sliced off the nearest part of an opponent he obviously outclassed in speed and power.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I could freaking do that.

Cutting off someones hand isn't necessarily a masterful lightsaber technique.

Savage simply sliced off the nearest part of an opponent he obviously outclassed in speed and power. Scans or it didn't happen.

Your claim was that Savage's training in lightsaber techniques is minimal. I've provided you a description of a fairly advanced lightsaber technique, and Savage carrying it out. He could of cut Tatsu in half if he was just a brute - instead he cuts off his sword hand, specifically. Nothing random about it. Speed and power have nothing to do with it, just skill and precision. This isn't difficult, Neph.

Originally posted by ILS
Scans or it didn't happen.

Your claim was that Savage's training in lightsaber techniques is minimal. I've provided you a description of a fairly advanced lightsaber technique, and Savage carrying it out. He could of cut Tatsu in half if he was just a brute - instead he cuts off his sword hand, specifically. Nothing random about it. Speed and power have nothing to do with it, just skill and precision. This isn't difficult, Neph.

I've fenced before and I can back up Arhael that hands get hit a lot. I've also fought with sticks and hands and wrists were the best things to go for.

Cutting off a hand isn't a specific lightsaber technique though. Cho mai is a mark of contact, not a lightsaber technique. It's simply a description of something you use lightsaber techniques (or not) to achieve. So I guess it's a harder concept to grasp than you thought.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I've fenced before and I can back up Arhael that hands get hit a lot. I've also fought with sticks and hands and wrists were the best things to go for.

Cutting off a hand isn't a specific lightsaber technique though. Cho mai is a mark of contact, not a lightsaber technique. It's simply a description of something you use lightsaber techniques (or not) to achieve. So I guess it's a harder concept to grasp than you thought. That's nice, I guess. Ever been in a lightsaber duel?

No, but targeting that area in a lightsaber duel evidently requires precision. Even says so above. Fencing isn't the same as lightsaber dueling, as well, so what may be common in fencing might be more difficult in a lightsaber duel. There's a lot more prodding involved, right? Makes sense that your hand would get jabbed a lot. Lightsaber duels are different, especially Savage's fighting style which involves broad strokes.

And if that isn't enough for you him picking up a Saberstaff after absolutely minimal training should be.

Lightsaber combat actually leaves the hands far more exposed than fencing does, since they don't have handguards and involve a lot of slashes, spins and shit instead of pokes.

Seriously stop. Cutting hand is not a technique. Technique is what exposes opponent's defense and creates an opening. Comic does not reveal what technique he used to slice the hand off. It does not reveal, if he planned it. It does not reveal, if he actually tried to use any precision. Hacking away hands does not automatically becomes a technique of great precision. Otherwise we should elevate Luke to be a superior lightsaber master for "skillfully" hacking off Vader's hand.

Regardless of anything, using your own personal experience of fencing to debunk a Star Wars sourcebook is about as fallacious as an argument can get, and you can appeal to ignorance all you want about how we didn't get an in-depth f*cking review on the mechanics of Savage cutting off Tatsu's hand, but really, to anyone with eyes it's clear that Savage just showed a good level of skill in cutting off Tatsu's hand, nothing more nothing less.

The logic being used in this thread is quite poor.

Originally posted by Raptor22
The logic being used in this thread is quite poor.

Enlighten us then.

The only poor logic is coming from Neph

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane's lightning outclasses Dooku's.

And his lightning was also dodged by a fodder semi-force sensitive old man named Hetton

Originally posted by carthage
Enlighten us then. ok.

Savage is a powerful combatant but mediocre lightsaber duelist at best. His main attributes are his physical strength, powerful tk, and the ability to tank punches and kicks. This is demonstrated in almost all of his fights.

These quotes r a little early in his training but they give a good base.

Obi wan- " This is the work of a reckless, impulsive animal"

Dooku- "u have no technique." "Sloppy"

Fights-

Master Halsey- savage uses his strength to crush his arm until he drops his lightsaber, then tanks his physical blows and beats him down while hes unarmed.

Obi-wan & Anakin- They pin him down, but he over powers them, throws them off, then drops a hover platform on them and flees.

Dooku- takes savage 7 swings to even connect once with dookus lightsaber, then when it does it overpowers dooku and he gets sent flying, then he gets zapped by dooku a bunch of times, turns on ventress, flails around for a bit missing more swings, finally connects and sends ventress flying, then tk's dooku.

Ventress- Savage tanks a few kicks to the face, a palm strike, another kick then slams ventresses head into a box disarming her. Then he grabs her leg and throws her accross the room. Savage proceeds to land some punches but is unable to strike her down with his saber, even though shes unarmed. She gets a saber from kenobi, and it cuts to maul vs kenobi.

Adi galia- savage tanks a leg kick, tk's her into a wall then impales her with his horns.

Kenobi out numbered- Savage did nothing but get kicked 7 times, 6 of them in the same leg then got his arm cut off.

Plo Koon- Tore off his mask.

Tatsu- probably his only victory thru sheer lightsaber skill. Unfortunately it was against a noob padawn, after he pissed savage off by calling him a coward, and got his hand cut off for it. Not really a master level skill performance.

Maul- oddly enough against the one person he fought that he doesnt have a massive strength/power advantage over, he gets disarmed and put down in less than 5 seconds. Weird huh.

Im seeing alot of physical/force overpowering and damage soak, but not much in pure skill.

I'm guessing you missed the part where Bane has no comparable showings, and highlighting the forms he knows doesn't mean he is a better duelist than Savage. You can breakdown his performances all you want, but as Bane has never beaten anyone without a nexus, amp, or Orbalisks apart from Sirak, your point is moot.

****ing hell, dude has some nerve telling other people their logic is poor LOL.

Yeah, the Fodd'ari of legend loses yet another match.

No one thus far has been able to actually show that Bane has better showings, so much as attack the tangential issue of Savage's lack of refinement. Which would be good if you're opponent had objectively better showings, Bane simply has no superior showings by virtue of his own skill:

Bane lost to Fohargh, lost to Sirak once and killed him, and only fought evenly with Darth Zannah who has only beaten a half-trained failed Jedi Set Harth. He only beat the Tython strike team with a nexus amp/orbalisks, and never beat any duelist comparable to Plo Koon or even Adi Gallia

He also got stomped by a Mercenary team.

He also got stomped by Sithspawn on Korriban in POD, and also got stomped by the orbalisks on Dxun lol

Subjective opinions mean little, this was Savage with barely any training, and Dooku said similar stuff about Grievous whilst watching him sparring. He even said to himself that Grievous was "hopeless", when, evidently he isn't.

You're missing the part where Savage caught his sword arm and disarmed him using a pretty common wrist pressure point, and the part where he dodged Hasley's blows and then beat him down with his axe. That was actually a decent showing of agility and skill and anyone with functioning eyeballs should hopefully be able to attest to this.

This wasn't even a dueling scenario lmao, Savage was tasked with capturing one of the little flying dinosaur dudes. He had no reason to be fighting them.

You don't have to be "mediocre at best" to be outclassed by Dooku in terms of raw skill.

First off, both Savage and Maul received kicks to the face from both Kenobi and Ventress, so unless you want to group Maul along in your little downplay-fest, this is a moot point. Next, Savage actually dodged the palm strike, tanked one kick, dodged another blow and then pushed Ventress over the crate, disarming her. That was a good showing of martial arts skill for Savage. Your argument about her being unarmed and Savage failing to kill her kind of falls short when you consider shit like Ventress failing to kill Kenobi while he was unarmed and taunting her as if the whole duel was casual. For story purposes, characters who are disarmed pretty much never die. They do some cool dodging bullshit then regain a saber, 99% of the time.

I think we're forgetting about the prolonged, even duel they had prior to this which had nothing to do with durability, physical stats or Force power. Sure, Savage won through durability and TK, but his skill carried him through the majority of the duel itself.

This partly due to Kenobi surprising both brothers with an unorthodox, uber-offensive fighting form, and the fact the area was extremely cramped not allowing Savage to move around. Plus Maul has been kicked by Kenobi during duels a ridiculous number of times for someone who is meant to be a master of something like a dozen martial arts so it's really no slight against Savage.

.......
Are you forgetting the extensive duel they had prior to this? The one where Savage had to contend with clone whilst dueling Plo simultaneously? There are panels where Savage is literally fighting Plo and dodging blaster bolts at the same time. Savage even landed a kick to boot. This fight actually shits all over your parade, I find it funny you even tried to mention it as a way of demonstrating Savage's lack of skill.

Maul used a wrist pressure point, and a pair of enchanted metal legs which have snapped Jedi bones and killed Jedi in single strikes, to subdue Savage, two things everyone listed here lacks, and this was Savage with minimal training.

Savage obviously isn't entirely based on skill, nobody is saying that. He's a mixture of strength and skill. His durability also helps him in some situations, and he takes advantage of his TK at certain moments. But a lot of you mother****ers act like he just runs in, breaks peoples wrists with one swing, tanks 90 punches and then blows the place up with TK, every fight. It's borderline short bus material.

Originally posted by carthage
I'm guessing you missed the part where Bane has no comparable showings, and highlighting the forms he knows doesn't mean he is a better duelist than Savage. You can breakdown his performances all you want, but as Bane has never beaten anyone without a nexus, amp, or Orbalisks apart from Sirak, your point is moot. i think ur getting a little obsessed with bane. I never mentioned him nor did i say he was a superior duelist to savage. (He is but thats beside the point). I was simply highlighting the poor logic being used to say that Savage is a highly skilled duelist. Then like usual u go on a rant about bane. Whats up with that?

Your AVI is ugly as hell change it

Originally posted by Raptor22
i think ur getting a little obsessed with bane. I never mentioned him nor did i say he was a superior duelist to savage. (He is but thats beside the point). I was simply highlighting the poor logic being used to say that Savage is a highly skilled duelist. Then like usual u go on a rant about bane. Whats up with that?

The post was made in reference to earlier terrible posts by Neph. None of your points addressed how "poor of a duelist" Savage was anyway, so much as showcase your own nitpickings on why you thought he was- all of which were promptly rebutted by I like swords. This post is about Bane vs. the Maul brothers, so referencing deficiencies in Savage's form, yet not bringing up comparable showings for the person that's being argued for isn't adding anything new to the discussion.

Originally posted by carthage
The post was made in reference to earlier terrible posts by Neph. None of your points addressed how "poor of a duelist" Savage was anyway, so much as showcase your own nitpickings on why you thought he was- all of which were promptly rebutted by I like swords. This post is about Bane vs. the Maul brothers, so referencing deficiencies in Savage's form, yet not bringing up comparable showings for the person that's being argued for isn't adding anything new to the discussion. so i cant discuss savages saber skills if i dont talk about bane in the same post? Thats weird because in ur response u went on about bane but didnt mention the brothers. Does that mean u didnt add anything new to the discussion also?

Also ils didnt rebut much, most of its excuses for lack of skill and things without context, which ill get to tomorrow because its late, but an example would be his first point where he compares dookus comments on grievous. Hes right he did say those things, but he left out the context that dooku was comparing grievous with some of the best swordsmen ever, and he didnt measure up to them. With savage he was simply saying hes sloppy as a duelist, not sloppy compared to mace or someone.

If u cant see the difference between the 2 comparisons there is probably no point in going any further with this tomorrow.

I dont think, that Bane is inferior to level 8 duelists. I would place him around them, actually. But still, Maul alone should be able to beat Bane. They're about equals. With Savage on Maul's side, it's completly one-sided. Bros takes 10 out of 10.

Originally posted by McP
I dont think, that Bane is inferior to level 8 duelists. I would place him around them, actually. But still, Maul alone should be able to beat Bane. They're about equals. With Savage on Maul's side, it's completly one-sided. Bros takes 10 out of 10.

Originally posted by Raptor22
i think ur getting a little obsessed with bane. I never mentioned him nor did i say he was a superior duelist to savage. (He is but thats beside the point). I was simply highlighting the poor logic being used to say that Savage is a highly skilled duelist. Then like usual u go on a rant about bane. Whats up with that?

He hates how much he actually loves Bane.

Originally posted by Raptor22
Also ils didnt rebut much, most of its excuses for lack of skill and things without context, which ill get to tomorrow because its late lmfao

Of course Grievous measured up to them, he measured up to Mace himself for a kick off, defeated Ventress, has plentiful accolades which would denote him qualifying as "some of the best swordsmen ever", ect. Grievous has challenged Dooku legitimately in sparring matches in the past, and that's with Dooku having the advantage of being his trainer and controlling what he is allowed to learn. The comparison is absolutely valid, therefore Dooku's subjective commentary on his apprentices means jack in comparison to the results they achieve.

Bane doesn't even need his lightsaber. He wins via force powers

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Bane doesn't even need his lightsaber. He wins via force powers watch?v=9xH0xorgUoI

Originally posted by ILS
Of course Grievous measured up to them, he measured up to Mace himself for a kick off, defeated Ventress, has plentiful accolades which would denote him qualifying as "some of the best swordsmen ever", ect. Grievous has challenged Dooku legitimately in sparring matches in the past, and that's with Dooku having the advantage of being his trainer and controlling what he is allowed to learn. The comparison is absolutely valid, therefore Dooku's subjective commentary on his apprentices means jack in comparison to the results they achieve. he came out on the losing end both times he faced mace, got bfr'd almost the instant mace decided he didnt want a prolonged fight, and got his hands cut off and killed by kenobi. It seems like Dooku's hopless thought was pretty spot on in that regard. heck his next thought is that grievous fights with too much hate instead of dispassion which was his exact mistake against mace. He knew he should have side steped the hole he cut but his desire to kill drove him into it. -

"Grievous-onetime courageous commander of sentient troops-realized what mace had done and wanted to sidestep, where general grievous-current commander of droids and other war machines-wanted nothing more than to impale mace with lunging thrusts of the paired blade."
"Slipping into the gap made by maces saber, grievous' s left talon lost magnetic purchase on the roof, and the general faltered."

Another pretty spot on judgement of one of his apprentices wouldnt u say?

U also missed the context of it being part of his inner monologue where hed been describing his distaste for grievious in other aspects such as collecting defeated jedi sabers, using 4 blades, and lack of elegance and gallantry.

These next quotes better reflect dooku's feelings on grievous' s skill.

"Grievous was a force to be reckoned with, to be sure,"

"Grievous was fast, and so were his ig 100-series sparring partners"

"Dooku had taught grievous well, and grievous had taught his elite well."

To think thats comparable to the scene with savage, where there's no context but dooku training him in sabers and calling his technique sloppy is laughable.

Yeah, the first time he was crushed by telekinesis, and the other time he had his foot stuck to the floor, and Mace proceeded to cut the floor beneath said foot. What does this have to do with lightsaber skill exactly?
Oh please, if Mace was as superior as you're failing to prove, he would have ended the fight by merit of skill, not by exploiting an environmental disadvantage.
Not only has Grievous gotten the better on Kenobi on a couple of occasions other than the one in ROTS, but Kenobi has a Form advantage against Grievous - which is backed up by both Mace telling Kenobi this, and Mace doing worse against Grievous than Kenobi despite being a better duelist than Kenobi. And you're accusing me of taking shit out of context.
Not really. And yes, Grievous does tend to zone in entirely on his opponent when fighting him. However, this has only ever hindered him while he was already at a disadvantage... you know, having his feet magnetized to the ground? If his feet weren't magnetized to the ground, Mace would have nothing environmental to exploit against Grievous.
No, not really, because if Grievous really was hopeless he wouldn't be doing shit like stalemating Windu while his feet were stuck to the floor, defeating Ventress, fighting evenly with Kenobi despite a Form disadvantage, ect.
Dooku's feelings on Grievous' skill level are irrelevant in comparison to Grievous' feats, which include challenging Dooku himself.

Of course it's comparable, because if Savage really was as shit as Dooku proclaimed him to be he wouldn't have the feats he has. Dooku is highly critical anyway, so what he deems hopeless can be incredible from someone elses view.

Btw, you forgot to rebut everything I said on the page before like you said you would. Am I to take that as a concession?

Originally posted by ILS
Yeah, the first time he was crushed by telekinesis, and the other time he had his foot stuck to the floor, and Mace proceeded to cut the floor beneath said foot. What does this have to do with lightsaber skill exactly?
Oh please, if Mace was as superior as you're failing to prove, he would have ended the fight by merit of skill, not by exploiting an environmental disadvantage.
Not only has Grievous gotten the better on Kenobi on a couple of occasions other than the one in ROTS, but Kenobi has a Form advantage against Grievous - which is backed up by both Mace telling Kenobi this, and Mace doing worse against Grievous than Kenobi despite being a better duelist than Kenobi. And you're accusing me of taking shit out of context.
Not really. And yes, Grievous does tend to zone in entirely on his opponent when fighting him. However, this has only ever hindered him while he was already at a disadvantage... you know, having his feet magnetized to the ground? If his feet weren't magnetized to the ground, Mace would have nothing environmental to exploit against Grievous.
No, not really, because if Grievous really was hopeless he wouldn't be doing shit like stalemating Windu while his feet were stuck to the floor, defeating Ventress, fighting evenly with Kenobi despite a Form disadvantage, ect.
Dooku's feelings on Grievous' skill level are irrelevant in comparison to Grievous' feats, which include challenging Dooku himself.

Of course it's comparable, because if Savage really was as shit as Dooku proclaimed him to be he wouldn't have the feats he has. Dooku is highly critical anyway, so what he deems hopeless can be incredible from someone elses view.

Btw, you forgot to rebut everything I said on the page before like you said you would. Am I to take that as a concession? this is just for the last part. I intend to respond to those but i do almost all of my posting from my phone and i takes long as hell. Id like to respond to all the points u made at once but i need a chunk of time to do it. The post u just responded to took me almost an hour. Sorry for my sluggishness and i appreciate ur patience.

Also i just want to apologize for coming in and talking shit about peoples logic, it was kind of douchy and out of nowhere. Ive been here for years and never do stuff like that so my bad.

Originally posted by Raptor22
Also i just want to apologize for coming in and talking shit about peoples logic, it was kind of douchy and out of nowhere. Ive been here for years and never do stuff like that so my bad. You don't really need to apologize, we all act like douchebags while debating at some point, myself included. But people will disagree with you if you call their logic shitty.

Originally posted by ILS
people will disagree with you if you call their logic shitty.

That's very shitty logic, come at me!!!

Originally posted by Trocity
That's very shitty logic, come at me!!! Douche

Maul sits back and drinks a martini while Savage kills Darth Bane

-

Originally posted by The Merchant
What if instead of Maul I replace him with Ventress?

Bane has a chance with this.

ILS defending Grievous. I'm hard.