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Who wins who dies?

Krayt stomps

Bane.

Krayt SLAUGHTERHOUSE

Bane in a good fight.

Originally posted by Trocity
Krayt stomps

Bane has no saber feats to compare with Krayt, he loses and it isn't a good fight. Krayt is faster, has beaten better opponents than Fohargh and Sirak, etc.

Originally posted by Nalaniel
Bane in a good fight.





lol u srs? Krayt had an intense duel with Kenobi that lasted several minutes, a Kenobi not far removed from his prime, a Kenobi who is above Bane in sabers. He solidly beat Cade in both duels he has with him while wanting him alive. He blitzes 4 of the Emperor's personal IK's while hindered by his sickness.

Bane beat trainee Sirak, lost the duel to Kas'im and didn't kill any of the Tython Strike team until PIS allowed Zannah to kill Sarro and then backstab Raskta. Krayt is a far better duelist than Bane. Not sure why you laughed, Bane isn't very good without his armor. Krayt slaughters him in sabers only.

Bane also had a nexus amp and the amp for his orbalisks when he fought the strike team.

Originally posted by carthage
Bane also had a nexus amp and the amp for his orbalisks when he fought the strike team. I remember you using an argument against Gnost saying that being amped doesn't increase the characters lightsaber skill.

*puts on his detective glasses* I can only conclude that your argument was kill by somesort of double standard

Read the fight again, Bane was getting slashed all over the place. He had orbalisk to protect him. Bane honestly has no dueling feats that matter that aren't against Zannah or Kas'im, both of which Krayt is over.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
I remember you using an argument against Gnost saying that being amped doesn't increase the characters lightsaber skill.

*puts on his detective glasses* I can only conclude that your argument was kill by somesort of double standard

And Bane's lightsaber skill wasn't increased, he beat them due to the nexus amp for himself/orbalisk amp/orbalisk protection? What part of my post was contradicted by an earlier one? It's not a positive that Bane sucks and needs amps/nexuses in order to fight. You might want to take some reading comprehension courses.

Krayt blitzed 4 knights at once, dominated Cade, and took out Wyyrlok without a nexus amp. Bane couldn'tve replicated any of those feats unless he had orbalisk armor

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Read the fight again, Bane was getting slashed all over the place. He had orbalisk to protect him. Bane honestly has no dueling feats that matter that aren't against Zannah or Kas'im, both of which Krayt is over. it says right in the book that bane was confident in letting his armor take the hits and just wasn't bothered to block strikes when he is wearing indestructible armor

Originally posted by WildBantha88
it says right in the book that bane was confident in letting his armor take the hits and just wasn't bothered to block strikes when he is wearing indestructible armor

He was still protected and had 2x an amp due to the Tython nexus/his orbalisks, again he didn't beat them by virtue of being more skilled. Bane doesn't have his orbalisks in this fight, and Krayt is faster and more skilled. Bane doesn't have the feats to stand against a duelist of Krayt's caliber, that's all he is saying.

Krayt in a good fight.

Originally posted by carthage
And Bane's lightsaber skill wasn't increased, he beat them due to the nexus amp for himself/orbalisk amp/orbalisk protection? What part of my post was contradicted by an earlier one? It's not a positive that Bane sucks and needs amps/nexuses in order to fight. You might want to take some reading comprehension courses.

Krayt blitzed 4 knights at once, dominated Cade, and took out Wyyrlok without a nexus amp. Bane couldn'tve replicated any of those feats unless he had orbalisk armor in a debate over lightsaber skill you are saying "banes lightsaber skill sucks because he was amped" when you previously said "being amped has no effect on lightsaber skill" #double standard

Now, the fact that you chose to consider this battle in order to establish banes lightsaber skill makes almost no sense since bane knew he was wearing lightsaber proof armor and just let the opponents wail on him. Kas'im or Zannahs duels are far better choices but troll both those characters so trying to convince you that Bane is skilled would be like trying to explain politics to a 3 year old

Originally posted by WildBantha88
in a debate over lightsaber skill you are saying "banes lightsaber skill sucks because he was amped" when you previously said "being amped has no effect on lightsaber skill" #double standard

Now, the fact that you chose to consider this battle in order to establish banes lightsaber skill makes almost no sense since bane knew he was wearing lightsaber proof armor and just let the opponents wail on him. Kas'im or Zannahs duels are far better choices but troll both those characters so trying to convince you that Bane is skilled would be like trying to explain politics to a 3 year old

Except my post isn't being contradicted in any sort, Bane's lightsaber skills weren't affected by the amp he beat them because he was encased in armor/protected by the orbalisks/and was using his force abilities as well. Obviously none of that is applicable in this fight. Bane's sole showings by virtue of his own skill are beating Sirak, Fohargh, and fighting evenly with Zannah. Try to understand this instead of deflecting my points.

Bane's skill prior to the orbalisk armor was still inferior to Krayt's, Sirak and Fohargh are inferior opponents to Cade, Wyyrlok, holding his own against Kenobi. Bane was amped when he fought Kas'im and he only beat him by killing him with nexus energy.

You keep bringing up factors that have nothing to do with a pure saber duel between these two. Bane doesn't have the Lehon nexus amp here, his opponents are inferior to Cade/Wyyrlok, and he is much slower than Krayt.

He loses

Originally posted by carthage
Except my post isn't being contradicted in any sort, Bane's lightsaber skills weren't affected by the amp he beat them because he was encased in armor/protected by the orbalisks/and was using his force abilities as well. Obviously none of that is applicable in this fight. Bane's sole showings by virtue of his own skill are beating Sirak, Fohargh, and fighting evenly with Zannah. Try to understand this instead of deflecting my points.

Bane's skill prior to the orbalisk armor was still inferior to Krayt's, Sirak and Fohargh are inferior opponents to Cade, Wyyrlok, holding his own against Kenobi. Bane was amped when he fought Kas'im and he only beat him by killing him with nexus energy.

You keep bringing up factors that have nothing to do with a pure saber duel between these two. Bane doesn't have the Lehon nexus amp here, his opponents are inferior to Cade/Wyyrlok, and he is much slower than Krayt.

He loses lol. Why are you trying to pin this on me? YOU were the one who brought up Bane being amped as if amps have any bearing on a lightsaber duel. YOU were the one that brought up his fight on Tython even though Orbalisk Bane fights much differently than unarmored Bane. And here you are still bringing up amps like they even matter.

1. Kas'im was equelly as amped as Bane so their amps are both negligable.

2.Bane was beating Kas'im before the latter busted out jar'kai, something Bane never saw before. So Kas'im kicked Banes ass afterwards, so what? Kas'im was feeding on a weakness that he had implanted into Bane. And afterwards Bane made up for that weakness.

3. Bane was not fighting evenly with Zannah, she was loosing that fight.

All you have ever done is try vigorously to under cut Bane, but at some point you need to wake up and realize that Bane is a lot better than you want to admit

Originally posted by Dionysus
Bane.

Bantha I know you have trouble with reading comprehension, so let me surmise it with my own quote. Who cares if Bane fights "Differently" than Orbalisk Bane, Krayt has superior showings to Bane's so-so unless Bane's "different"fighting style caused him to beat someone superior, it doesn't matter



Not how I already delineated in my example the fact you can't seem to get your mind around. Now let me break it down even further for you since you can't seem to understand that even before the orbalisks Bane's dueling ability was inferior to Krayt's:



Let me reiterate that not only is Kas'im featless, but he didn't beat him by virtue of his own skill. He used a nexus amp to dispatch him, can you please tell me what that has to do with his duel? Kas'im likewise has no feats to compare with Cade, Wyyrlok, and Krayt's blitzing of the knights is more impressive than Bane not being killed due to Kas'im's Jar kai advantage. Bane in DoE has no dueling feats to compare either, Zannah has beaten no one of note.



He wasn't beating him they were roughly fightly evenly, until he pulled out his other saber. Who cares Kas'im has no feats that put him above Cade, Wyyrlok, or Krayt's feat of blitzing knights. Also Bane was amped considerably when he fought him, as well as knew his style through constant sparring, Bane has none of those advantages here.



Zannah has no feats that put her above Cade or Krayt as a duelist. Whether or not he was gaining advantage over a duelist who has only beaten a featless half-trained Jedi knight doesn't put her above Krayt. Krayt is faster and more skilled than Zannah

Originally posted by Nephthys


dies

Originally posted by carthage
Bantha I know you have trouble with reading comprehension, so let me surmise it with my own quote. Who cares if Bane fights "Differently" than Orbalisk Bane, Krayt has superior showings to Bane's so-so unless Bane's "different"fighting style caused him to beat someone superior, it doesn't matter



Not how I already delineated in my example the fact you can't seem to get your mind around. Now let me break it down even further for you since you can't seem to understand that even before the orbalisks Bane's dueling ability was inferior to Krayt's:



Let me reiterate that not only is Kas'im featless, but he didn't beat him by virtue of his own skill. He used a nexus amp to dispatch him, can you please tell me what that has to do with his duel? Kas'im likewise has no feats to compare with Cade, Wyyrlok, and Krayt's blitzing of the knights is more impressive than Bane not being killed due to Kas'im's Jar kai advantage. Bane in DoE has no dueling feats to compare either, Zannah has beaten no one of note.



He wasn't beating him they were roughly fightly evenly, until he pulled out his other saber. Who cares Kas'im has no feats that put him above Cade, Wyyrlok, or Krayt's feat of blitzing knights. Also Bane was amped considerably when he fought him, as well as knew his style through constant sparring, Bane has none of those advantages here.



Zannah has no feats that put her above Cade or Krayt as a duelist. Whether or not he was gaining advantage over a duelist who has only beaten a featless half-trained Jedi knight doesn't put her above Krayt. Krayt is faster and more skilled than Zannah 1. The only part of the Kas'im duel that matters is up until the duel blades came out because after that was basicly Kas'im just cheating, so Babe having dispatched him with the force has nothing to do with his lightsaber skill.

2. Bane was beating Kas'im in the initial fight. Kas'im was in a retreat.

3. Bane being amped and familiar with Kas'ims style don't matter because Kas'im was amped as well and was familiar with Banes style. They both had the same advantages so there for they cross each other out

As for my apparent " comprehensive problems" I understand perfectly what you are trying yo say but you don't understand that none of that matters. What I can't comprehend is why you brought it up in the first place

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Babe

I'm imagining a pig running rampant with force lightning and wielding a red lightsaber in its little trotters.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm imagining a pig running rampant with force lightning and wielding a red lightsaber it its little trotters. I was talking about you peanut. <3 # soulmates

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm imagining a pig running rampant with force lightning and wielding a red lightsaber it its little trotters.

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608017999105820040&pid=1.7

Can you please tell me where in there it states that Bane had beaten him by virtue of his own skill? He had to call upon the darkside in the temple in order to respond, and Kas'im realized that he was doomed due to Bane's power not Bane's skill. Bane was more powerful in the force, not more skilled than Kas'im. Bane has no such advantage over Krayt, Krayt is much faster and has beaten better opponents (which you have no refutation for)

Here Kas'im admits he has no chance due to Bane's power in the force, again no mention of Bane's skill with a lightsaber:




Bane also had intimate knowledge of Kas'im's form, something which he lacks against Krayt's skillset. Bane was amped by a nexus and was stronger int he force which caused him to overwhelm Kas'im, nowhere does it state that Bane won by virtue of being more skilled





Originally posted by WildBantha88
I remember you using an argument against Gnost saying that being amped doesn't increase the characters lightsaber skill.

*puts on his detective glasses* I can only conclude that your argument was kill by somesort of double standard

My post was made in reference to Trocity's when he was bringing up his fight against the strike team- and how he thought the fight went. All I did was mention that he had a nexus and orbalisks along with that. I didn't mention anything about them increasing his skill. There are no doublestandards, and I even broke the posts down for you because you suck at reading.

So do you have any actual dueling feats that prove Bane is better than Krayt or are you just going to keep going over irrelevant stuff? Krayt simply is a better duelist

We are just going around In circles because you suck at debating and just ignore everything I say.

Bane being amped in the Kas'im duel because Kas'im was equelly as amped. Bane being familiar with Kas'im's lightsaber form means nothing because Kas'im literally taught him everything he knew. Both were amped and both were familiar with the others style. Are you actually going to acknowledge this now or are you going to keep going on like Bane beat Kas'im due to bring amped and familiar with Kas'ims style?

They were equally amped when they first started fighting, and then Bane had to give himself over to the force fully in order to win. I even posted the text for you from POD, when Bane drew upon his force reserves/the nexus he won. Again none of that had to do with his own skill, and its irrelevant whether or not he fought evenly with Kas'im- Kas'im is massively inferior to Krayt as a duelist and Cade.

I've already refuted that claim of yours, and posted text to support my argument. Now back to the topic what feats in lightsaber skill does Bane have that are superior to Krayt's?

You truly are hopeless. Smh

Krayt will never break through Banes Soresu wall. Bane can defend against a torrent of rain, that is far more than Krayt can hope to crank out

Close battle, going with Bane.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
You truly are hopeless. Smh

Krayt will never break through Banes Soresu wall. Bane can defend against a torrent of rain, that is far more than Krayt can hope to crank out

Krayt is faster than rain drops lmao, and yeah he can. Bane can't keep on the defensive forever, likewise Krayt is objectively the better duelist and is faster than Bane by a large margin. Again you've provided nothing in Bane's duels to prove he is a superior duelist to Bane- whether or not he can hold his defense is less of an issue than if he can beat Krayt.

Originally posted by carthage
They were equally amped when they first started fighting, and then Bane had to give himself over to the force fully in order to win. I even posted the text for you from POD, when Bane drew upon his force reserves/the nexus he won. Again none of that had to do with his own skill, and its irrelevant whether or not he fought evenly with Kas'im- Kas'im is massively inferior to Krayt as a duelist and Cade.

That's just Drew's way of describing duels. Kas'im mentions early on that reacting to each attack is hard so it's best to just give yourself over to the Force and start reacting instinctively and drawing on your skill instinctively. Remember, theres a scene where Kas'im praises Bane for letting the Force fully run through him and guide his blade.

This was re-mentioned in the Harth vs Zannah fight in DOE.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That's just Drew's way of describing duels. Kas'im mentions early on that reacting to each attack is hard so it's best to just give yourself over to the Force and start reacting instinctively and drawing on your skill instinctively.

None of that disproves the fact that he had to call extra hard on the force in order to win . The text even says that Kas'im knew it was inevitable due to Bane's power in the force. Before that they were largely just going back and forth, which is due to Bane's knowledge of his form. When Bane drew on the force/temple he became more powerful, and the tide had changed. He doesn't have that edge here, Krayt will beat him by being more skilled and faster. Also there is no evidence Bane ever knew how to counter Jar kai

Originally posted by carthage
Krayt is faster than rain drops lmao, and yeah he can. Bane can't keep on the defensive forever, likewise Krayt is objectively the better duelist and is faster than Bane by a large margin. Again you've provided nothing in Bane's duels to prove he is a superior duelist to Bane- whether or not he can hold his defense is less of an issue than if he can beat Krayt. what is krayts best speed feat? Because I highly doubt it is above a torrent of rain

Originally posted by WildBantha88
what is krayts best speed feat? Because I highly doubt it is above a torrent of rain

He blitzed 4 IKS at once, and formed tornados out of his blade.

He can overwhelm Bane at anytime, all Bane has done was move in a blur and form a shield out his blade

Originally posted by WildBantha88
what is krayts best speed feat? Because I highly doubt it is above a torrent of rain

He mad after images in the comics http://r28.imgfast.net/users/2811/36/97/52/smiles/3906539896.gif

Originally posted by WildBantha88
what is krayts best speed feat?
http://r19.imgfast.net/users/1916/39/10/06/album/pr/krayt11_800x600.jpg

Originally posted by carthage
None of that disproves the fact that he had to call extra hard on the force in order to win . The text even says that Kas'im knew it was inevitable due to Bane's power in the force. Before that they were largely just going back and forth, which is due to Bane's knowledge of his form. When Bane drew on the force/temple he became more powerful, and the tide had changed. He doesn't have that edge here, Krayt will beat him by being more skilled

No, he didn't. He called on the force as much as he does anywhere. Bane WAS winning because he was more powerful, yes. But so what. And lol wtf? Before that quote Kas'im attacks Bane with a single sequence. There was no back and forth.

Blitzing 4 knights is not faster than rain torrents. I concur, Krayt won't penetrate Banes defense

Originally posted by Nephthys
Unobservant as always.

"Kas'im lunged in again, and the room was filled with the hiss and hum of lightsabers striking each other half a dozen times in the space of two heartbeats. Bane would have been carved to ribbons had he tried to react to each move individually. Instead he simply called upon the Force, letting it flow through him and guide his hand. He gave himself over to the dark side completely, without reservation. His weapon became an extension of the Force, and he responded to the Twilek's unstoppable attack with an impenetrable defense."

The part you'd highlighted was describing Bane's reactions to the second exchange. So there was only one exchange before that point.

Plus I thought you believed nexus amps to be automatic. So why would Bane not have access to it prior to anything? And Bane "gathering" the Force, was just him getting serious and fighting at his full power. It's no amp.

I guess you missed the part I had in bold where it says Kas'im had stopped to regroup:



Now who is the one being unobservant. The second exchange began when he attacked Bane, and then forced Bane to draw on his own reserves on top of the nexus amp? I already said they were passively amped, he just drew on his own reserves on top of the temple amp he had and it overwhelmed Kas'im. Maybe you should go back to read prior posts.

Bane being amped is already common knowedgle. The combined nexus of the Temple of the Ancients, Lehon, AND the Star Forge is insane, and utterly minimize his temple feat.
That being said, everyone must remember Kas'im is getting the same amp Bane is getting, so it evens out in the long run. Though any attacks/powers either displays there shouldn't be considered much.

Bane had to draw on his own reserves on top of the nexus amp he got from the temple, which at that point Kas'im is screwed. You're exactly right about the planetary amp as well though, not to mention Revan as you showed had blown much of the temple up.

Originally posted by carthage
I guess you missed the part I had in bold where it says Kas'im had stopped to regroup, now who is the one being unobservant. The second exchange began when he attacked Bane, and then forced Bane to draw on his own reserves on top of the nexus amp? I already said they were passively amped, he just drew on his own reserves on top of the temple amp he had and it overwhelmed Kas'im. Maybe you should go back to read prior posts.

I... know. Kas'im attacks, stops to regroups and attacks again, and Bane drew completely on the darkside to respond to that. So before that point Kas'im had previously attacked him once. That's what happened.

And he's drawing on his full power, just like Kas'im is doing as well. Neither was holding back. That doesn't mean one was getting an unfair advantage other than Bane being more powerful. I don't know what the hell you mean by reserves.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I... know. Kas'im attacks, stops to regroups and attacks again, and Bane drew completely on the darkside to respond to that. So before that point Kas'im had previously attacked him once. That's what happened.

And he's drawing on his full power, just like Kas'im is doing as well. Neither was holding back. That doesn't mean one was getting an unfair advantage other than Bane being more powerful. I don't know what the hell you mean by reserves.

And what would make two-three exchanges lmao. You just said there was only one, the second one Bane had to draw on the force. Case closed Neph. I never said it was an unfair advantage, but the issue is if Bane is more skilled than Krayt which Bantha tried to use his duel with Kas'im as an example is false. Again Bane didn't outskill Kas'im (in that fight), nor does he outskill Krayt. So it was a shit example to use.

Again who has Bane beaten that is superior to Wyyrlok, Kenobi, or Cade?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Bane being amped is already common knowedgle. The combined nexus of the Temple of the Ancients, Lehon, AND the Star Forge is insane, and utterly minimize his temple feat.
That being said, everyone must remember Kas'im is getting the same amp Bane is getting, so it evens out in the long run. Though any attacks/powers either displays there shouldn't be considered much.

https://38.media.tumblr.com/7143a670544381ee0dac141ca1d38614/tumblr_mzys8nfrxf1st18yzo1_400.gif

You'll do anything just to make Neph lose won't you?

No, Neph. That's not how the Force works. Carthage is right, actually. When you call upon the Force, you draw it in from the surroundings into yourself via the midichlorians.
The amount of Force energy you are able to call in depends on your unlocked midichlorian count. When you draw in energy from a nexus, it is more concentrated, so more comes in available.
Darth Bane drawing on the Force grants him significantly more energy then otherwise thanks to the condensed state of the Force. As obviously, involuntary amps are not as grand as voluntary amps.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
https://38.media.tumblr.com/7143a670544381ee0dac141ca1d38614/tumblr_mzys8nfrxf1st18yzo1_400.gif

You'll do anything just to make Neph lose won't you?
Unless you are playing, posts like these are specifically what I was referring to in the PM besides chatzys.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Unless you are playing, posts like these are specifically what I was referring to in the PM besides chatzys.
That was just a little friendly gif poking fun at the argument you and Carthage are both trying to make and your support of carthage.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
That was just a little friendly gif poking fun at the argument you and Carthage are both trying to make and your support of carthage.

The only thing funny was your concession to me in the B team thread lmao. Go away.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
That was just a little friendly gif poking fun at the argument you and Carthage are both trying to make and your support of carthage.
I'm not joining in on carthage's debate sans the nexus part. Though you must understand carthage is correct about the nexus.
I understand you don't consider him very reliable but Bane was calling on unnatural amounts of Force energy during the fight.
Hopefully Nephthys will admit this and concede. That being said, it's now my turn: http://i.imgur.com/TC7X3.gif. :iwin:

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
That was just a little friendly gif poking fun at the argument you and Carthage are both trying to make and your support of carthage. hey baby. I want to slather your body in experience oils

Originally posted by WildBantha88
experience oils
What?

Originally posted by WildBantha88
hey baby. I want to slather your body in experience oils

I'm surprised you didn't misspell experience.

Originally posted by carthage
And what would make two-three exchanges lmao. You just said there was only one, the second one Bane had to draw on the force. Case closed Neph. I never said it was an unfair advantage, but the issue is if Bane is more skilled than Krayt which Bantha tried to use his duel with Kas'im as an example is false. Again Bane didn't outskill Kas'im (in that fight), nor does he outskill Krayt. So it was a shit example to use.

Again who has Bane beaten that is superior to Wyyrlok, Kenobi, or Cade?

No, I said there was only one before Bane drew on the force. Bane drew on the force to deal with the 2nd exchange, therefore there was only one before that.

The fight is still a great skill feat for Bane, since he knew everything Kas'im could throw at him (barring dual sabers obviously), which was all the forms and everything Kas'im knew about them, which was everything. And given that Kas'im earlier told Bane to focus on mastering his own skills before learning his opponents, Bane's grasp of own dueling skills is likely just as good as his grasp of Kas'ims.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No, Neph. That's not how the Force works. Carthage is right, actually. When you call upon the Force, you draw it in from the surroundings into yourself via the midichlorians.
The amount of Force energy you are able to call in depends on your unlocked midichlorian count. When you draw in energy from a nexus, it is more concentrated, so more comes in available.
Darth Bane drawing on the Force grants him significantly more energy then otherwise thanks to the condensed state of the Force. As obviously, involuntary amps are not as grand as voluntary amps.

Carthage didn't even say that.

Also it never actually says Bane was drawing on the nexus, lol.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Carthage didn't even say that.
Carthage said Bane was amped by voluntary drawing on the nexus, he was correct.
I don't know or care about what else he said, but that particular point is correct according to canon.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
hey baby. I want to slather your body in experience oils

Experience oils? well, Just wait till i get my Xbox One as well as Destiny and we'll be unstoppable my love, we'll be showering in XP all day, every day. <3

Again I never even highlighted his duel with Kas'im in my prior discussion with Bantha. I never considered it and still don't consider it an example of Bane outskilling Kas'im. He had to draw on the nexus to kill him/draw on the force to even hold his own, it would be different if he beat him outright in a contest of pure sabers. Kas'im likewise has beaten no one, whereas, Cade has beaten Nihl, Talon, fought evenly with Antares Draco, and Krayt dominated him in a duel/killed Wyyrlok/blitzed knights . Bane has no comparable saber feats to Krayt.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Carthage said Bane was amped by voluntary drawing on the nexus, he was correct.
I don't know or care about what else he said, but that particular point is correct according to canon.

But he didn't though. Letting the Force flow through him isn't the same as drawing on the nexus.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But he didn't though. Letting the Force flow through him isn't the same as drawing on the nexus.
A Force nexus is an area with a concentrated/unnatural amount of Force energy. Bane calling upon the Force grants him access to additional Force energy due to the concentration of it currently.
To put it into more easy to understand terms, since the energy is more concentrated, more can go through through Bane's midichlorians for him to use against Kas'im. Basic Star Wars science, bro.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
A Force nexus is an area with a concentrated/unnatural amount of Force energy. Bane calling upon the Force grants him access to additional Force energy due to the concentration of it currently.
To put it into more easy to understand terms, since the energy is more concentrated, more can go through through Bane's midichlorians for him to use against Kas'im. Basic Star Wars science, bro.

Nope. Thats not voluntarily drawing on the nexus, thats drawing on the force and it being involuntarily more effective. But that's besides the point. It's not as if Kas'im wasn't you know, using the Force too.

You don't have to "draw" on it to be amped, when Bane arrived on Lehon he involuntarily got a headache, Bane also knew the Temple was a place strong in the darkside:



Bane senses the power of the temple



Likewise No one is posting any feats Kas'im has done or anyone Bane has beaten that surpasses anything by Cade or Krayt. So I'm assuming this is an attempt for Neph to save face. Bantha I also accept your concession

Feeling something = being amped by it, ok.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Feeling something = being amped by it, ok.

Bane felt the power of the temple and involuntarily got a headache, he would involuntarily be amped whether or not he went in due to the area being strong in the darkside. But keep ignoring the fact the place was a nexus Neph

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Experience oils? well, Just wait till i get my Xbox One as well as Destiny and we'll be unstoppable my love, we'll be showering in XP all day, every day. <3 ****ing auto correct. I do all my stuff on my phone now because my computer sucks and I can't get on it without my brother throwing a hissy fit because it makes his call of duty lag. Any ways that's why I'm never in chat any more

Originally posted by WildBantha88
****ing auto correct. I do all my stuff on my phone now because my computer sucks and I can't get on it without my brother throwing a hissy fit because it makes his call of duty lag. Any ways that's why I'm never in chat any more

we miss you bubby, Hopefully you'll be able to figure out a way to get online again sometime in the future. For now, i'll enjoy those expansive oils

Hold on Neph, drawing you a diagram.

Originally posted by carthage
Again I never even highlighted his duel with Kas'im in my prior discussion with Bantha. I never considered it and still don't consider it an example of Bane outskilling Kas'im. He had to draw on the nexus to kill him/draw on the force to even hold his own, it would be different if he beat him outright in a contest of pure sabers. Kas'im likewise has beaten no one, whereas, Cade has beaten Nihl, Talon, fought evenly with Antares Draco, and Krayt dominated him in a duel/killed Wyyrlok/blitzed knights . Bane has no comparable saber feats to Krayt.

I don't care, this has nothing to do with my initial interjection.

Originally posted by carthage
Bane felt the power of the temple and involuntarily got a headache, he would involuntarily be amped whether or not he went in due to the area being strong in the darkside. But keep ignoring the fact the place was a nexus Neph

Getting a headache = drawing on a nexus, ok.

Your initial interjection had nothing to do with what I was discussing anyway, you came in and as always ignored the fact Bane's feats occur on places strong in the dark side (as always).

But whatever no one has bothered to address the fact Krayt has objectively better dueling feats than Bane so I'm assuming the conversation is over and everyone has admitted Bane is an inferior duelist and would die.

No, Bane still wins.

Bane dies

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
we miss you bubby, Hopefully you'll be able to figure out a way to get online again sometime in the future. For now, i'll enjoy those expansive oils you had better. They were expensive

Originally posted by WildBantha88
you had better. They were expensive

I'll need you to do my back though

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nope. Thats not voluntarily drawing on the nexus, thats drawing on the force and it being involuntarily more effective. But that's besides the point. It's not as if Kas'im wasn't you know, using the Force too.
You continue to fail to understand. Please listen so you can learn for future debates. The area where Bane was fighting in had a HIGH concentration of Force energy, being much greater then usual. Please understand that the Force and a nexus are not separate entities. A nexus is a way to describe the Force in a condensed state. When Bane opened himself up to this energy voluntarily, more energy was able to come in for him to use thanks to it being concentrated. I made some simple diagrams below to help you better get what I am saying so in the future you understand better about this topic :

http://i59.servimg.com/u/f59/17/73/92/12/neph_l10.png
* When I say "Force Reserve", I mean Darth Bane's entire body including tissue and such. Sorry about that typo.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
we miss you bubby, Hopefully you'll be able to figure out a way to get online again sometime in the future. For now, i'll enjoy those expansive oils you had better. They were expensive

Again, if a nexus had to be voluntarily drawn on to have effects, Jedi would not be weakened and/or driven to the dark side whilst on their surfaces. Unless you're trying to tell me that Yoda was voluntarily drawing on Vjun's nexus to hinder himself?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Again, if a nexus had to be voluntarily drawn on to have effects, Jedi would not be weakened and/or driven to the dark side whilst on their surfaces. Unless you're trying to tell me that Yoda was voluntarily drawing on Vjun's nexus to hinder himself?
Any living being has a constant supply of Force energy going into them every micro-second. Because of this is why Jedi are weakened.
When one manually calls upon the outside Force for additional energy, they are using the midichlorians to it's maximum current potential.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You continue to fail to understand. Please listen so you can learn for future debates. The area where Bane was fighting in had a HIGH concentration of Force energy, being much greater then usual. Please understand that the Force and a nexus are not separate entities. A nexus is a way to describe the Force in a condensed state. When Bane opened himself up to this energy voluntarily, more energy was able to come in for him to use thanks to it being concentrated. I made some simple diagrams below to help you better get what I am saying so in the future you understand better about this topic :

http://i59.servimg.com/u/f59/17/73/92/12/neph_l10.png
* When I say "Force Reserve", I mean Darth Bane's entire body including tissue and such. Sorry about that typo.

That wouldn't be voluntary though. That's still Bane just drawing upon the Force as he does everywhere else and the nexus making it more effective without Bane deliberately drawing upon it. Bane using the nexus to fuel his Death Field? That's him deliberately using a nexus. Bane using the Force and the nexus automatically making it more powerful? Not voluntary.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That wouldn't be voluntary though. That's still Bane just drawing upon the Force as he does everywhere else and the nexus making it more effective without Bane deliberately drawing upon it. Bane using the nexus to fuel his Death Field? That's him deliberately using a nexus. Bane using the Force and the nexus automatically making it more powerful? Not voluntary.
I don't completely understand what you are getting at here, please explain. Bane calling upon Force energy (that is concentrated, since they are on a nexus) grants him additional power.
I once again stress that nexus's and the Force itself are not separate entities. A nexus is a concentrated area of the Force. Bane calling upon the Force on Lehon gets him extra energy then usual.

Bane isn't calling on additional energy though. He's just letting the force flow through him, like all Jedi and Sith do. You know, to use the force, you kind of draw on the force? He's not amping himself at all.

I'm not discussing you on that. You're going on about the difference between involuntary amps and voluntary amps when this example of yours would clearly be Bane being amped involuntarily.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane isn't calling on additional energy though. He's just letting the force flow through him, like all Jedi and Sith do. He's not amping himself at all.
Ah okay, I see where your confused at. Then again, I explained this a million times, but I see like I need to do it again.
Bane is calling upon the Force. Where do you get the Force? The area around you. Bane calls that in for power and strength.
The Force he calls in is concentrated. He doesn't make it concentrated, it already is. All the energy on the planet is concentrated.
The only way to not call upon concentrated energy is to cut yourself off from the Force. I feel you are thinking of a different, inaccurate possibility.
Bane doesn't first call upon the Force, then the extra energy. The Force is rather condensed together so extra energy is allowed to fit in per the area.
An example would be eating five cotton balls that is stuffed together to match the size of one cotton ball rather then just eating the one cotton ball.

In Dark Rendezvous on Vjun both Padwans Scout and Whie confirm Vjun is a nexus:


-Dark Rendezvous

Late Whie confirms that due to the energies of the Vjun nexus he could lift a skeleton which he would have to struggle with off nexus:





Scout is weak in the force, but even she feels empowered when confirming the nexus here:



Whie didn't have to "Draw on any nexus" in order to feel empowered on Vjun, nowhere is it stated he had to "Draw on anything" in order to perform a task he would ordinarily struggle to do. The fact is you don't have to "actively" draw on anything in order to receive an amplification in your ability/power in the force. Case closed Neph.

Oh, and note that the difference between involuntary and voluntary amps is this:
Involuntary amp: Constant, steady supply of Force energy that you do not control.
Voluntary amp: Calling upon as much Force energy that can come into you as possible.
In either scenario (Bane is doing the second here), you get amplified energy regardless.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane isn't calling on additional energy though. He's just letting the force flow through him, like all Jedi and Sith do. You know, to use the force, you kind of draw on the force? He's not amping himself at all.

I'm not discussing you on that. You're going on about the difference between involuntary amps and voluntary amps when this example of yours would clearly be Bane being amped involuntarily.

And Whie was just using the force ordinarily when he lifted a skeleton, the nexus aided him in lifting in when he plainly stated it would be harder for him perform off of Vjun. Nowhere did it state he was "Drawing on a nexus", he just did it and the nexus aided him as confirmed by himself

Lehon, Dxun, Korriban, and Tython are all more powerful than Vjun; for everyone of Bane's feats he would've been amped regardless and to much higher degrees than a simple Padawan like Whie.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Ah okay, I see where your confused at. Then again, I explained this a million times, but I see like I need to do it again.
Bane is calling upon the Force. Where do you get the Force? The area around you. Bane calls that in for power and strength.
The Force he calls in is concentrated. He doesn't make it concentrated, it already is. All the energy on the planet is concentrated.
The only way to not call upon concentrated energy is to cut yourself off from the Force. I feel you are thinking of a different, inaccurate possibility.
Bane doesn't first call upon the Force, then the extra energy. The Force is rather condensed together so extra energy is allowed to fit in per the area.
An example would be eating five cotton balls that is stuffed together to match the size of one cotton ball rather then just eating the one cotton ball.

I'm not the one who's confused. I've kept up with your argument the whole time, it's hardly something I haven't seen before. You've been the one misinterpreting my posts and failing to keep up. Which has made your incredibly condescending tone very ironic.

If this is what you call "voluntary", then what did you mean by an involuntary amp? Because this all still seems very involuntary to me. Bane isn't making the choice to amp himself, it's happening without his choice.

Edit: Nevermind, I can see that your definitions are just stupid.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Oh, and note that the difference between involuntary and voluntary amps is this:
Involuntary amp: Constant, steady supply of Force energy that you do not control.
Voluntary amp: Calling upon as much Force energy that can come into you as possible.
In either scenario (Bane is doing the second here), you get amplified energy regardless.
I have said this numerous times now. Please keep up.

Yeah, ok. We're done now.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not the one who's confused. I've kept up with your argument the whole time, it's hardly something I haven't seen before. You've been the one misinterpreting my posts and failing to keep up. Which has made your incredibly condescending tone very ironic.

If this is what you call "voluntary", then what did you mean by an involuntary amp? Because this all still seems very involuntary to me. Bane isn't making the choice to amp himself, it's happening without his choice.

Edit: Nevermind, I can see that your definitions are just stupid.

Lmfao I just posted an example in Dark Rendezvous where Whie didn't have to draw on an amp and he felt empowered by the nexus. Even another barely force sensitive padwan like Scout felt empowered and stronger. Karpashyn sucks at writing and doesn't know the definition of a force nexus, which was the standard is still is all of what Ant said. You don't have to consciously draw on it, Bane was amped and when he destroyed Kas'im just drew more force energy from himself and received an additional boost.

@ Nephthys. I am disappointed you cannot grasp such an easy part of Star Wars lore. I recommend you begin to accept canon to become a better debater.
If you have done more extensive study on how Force Energy and nexus' work, and have formed a theory different from canon evidence, please let me know.
How do you consider voluntary vs involuntary? Note that my involuntary definition is canonical. My voluntary definition is based off of information presented.

Neph losing another argument and denying evidence just to wank Bane more

Krayt still stomps Bane in a duel.

There was no argument, I was simply taking issue with how Ant was defining an amp as voluntary. He was obviously trying to bait me into a debate on nexuses, so I didn't give him the satisfaction.

This thread was everything I knew it would become.

I was not defining an amp as voluntary. Amps can also be involuntary, which I said.
Once again though, if you have any questions about how nexus' work, please let me know.

Originally posted by ILS
This thread was everything I knew it would become.

Which is hilarious because I provided evidence for the fact that Whie didn't have to "Draw" into the nexus and even admitted that it enabled him to perform the feat of lifting a skeleton (which he would've struggled to do) off of Vjun.

Neph just wants to downplay, ignore, and willingly disavow that Bane's feats on darkside worlds weren't by his own power

No, it's that you're on ignore and I didn't bother to click on that post.

I wasn't quoting you anyways, lol. You lost another debate, this is like what the 5000th time?

Bane gets his bald ass kicked in a duel with Krayt, at least back onto the subject matter.

Real life has awesome jiggle physics

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Read the fight again, Bane was getting slashed all over the place. He had orbalisk to protect him. Bane honestly has no dueling feats that matter that aren't against Zannah or Kas'im, both of which Krayt is over.

This man speaks to the heart of the matter, you would all do well to listen to him.

In Bane's defense, he was getting slashed up in large part because he knew he could afford to be.

The gist of his message was than Krayt has beaten superior opponents to Bane, and that's true.

Originally posted by Trocity
Krayt stomps

Mm, I give Bane-era duelists a bit more credit than that, I don't view it as all that stompy.

Krayt stomps

Krayt-sama takes this.

Krayt hasn't beaten superior duelist to Kas'im and Zannah. One sigh era duelist are terrible

Who are these One sigh duelists you speak of?

Auto correct turns Sith into sigh.

I've never heard of duelists of the One sigh era?

Could they stomp trainees (with a nexus) and be strong like Darth Bane?

Bane stalemated the greatest duelist of that era who mastered ever lightsaber form to its apex. A lot better than moon trainie. Who has Krayt beat? Cade, who has only beat Krayts sucky underlings? Four fearless mook Jedi?

Cool story bo. In spite of his "mastery of all forms" he never beat anyone of note. Kas'im has no feats to put him over Talon, Nihl, or Cade. Beating opponents with feats >> being a schoolteacher that can't even beat a trainee without cheating.

Originally posted by carthage
Cool story bo. In spite of his "mastery of all forms" he never beat anyone of note. Kas'im has no feats to put him over Talon, Nihl, or Cade. Beating opponents with feats >> being a schoolteacher that can't even beat a trainee without cheating. Talon and Nihl and Cade who's only feats are beating each other. None of them is as impressive as the school teacher

Cade slaughtered dozens of Sith, what are you talking about?

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Talon and Nihl and Cade who's only feats are beating each other. None of them is as impressive as the school teacher

Who has Kas'im beaten (apart from his duel with trainee Bane) that has beaten an individual such as Cade, Talon, or Nihl? Please tell me.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Cade slaughtered dozens of Sith, what are you talking about?

Not to mention Talon, who simultaneously defeated Shado Vao and Wolf Sazen, who have each individually killed their fair share of Sith.

Cade talon and nihl? Who are sucky duelist who can only compete with each other? Also he beat his master who was also the greatest duelist of his time IIRC

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Not to mention Talon, who simultaneously defeated Shado Vao and Wolf Sazen, who have each individually killed their fair share of Sith.

Lol @ your opinion. Kas'im's master (like Kas'im) is featless and Ant and Sasuke gave you notable opponents Nihl and Talon have beaten. Again who has Kas'im beaten that is comparable to the duelists they've beaten, we have no idea who or what Kas'im's master has done he has as many feats as Mendor Typhoons.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Not to mention Talon, who simultaneously defeated Shado Vao and Wolf Sazen, who have each individually killed their fair share of Sith. random fearless sigh neither has any real feats

I'm sorry, but you're not really making any sense.

What has cade talon or nihl done that is better than beating the greatest duelist of the era?

Proof Na'daz was the greatest of the era?

Kas'im states it

Quote me.

On my phone

Can anyone else besides Bantha supply a quote for me?

Also Bane wasn't a trainee when he fought Kas'im. Bane was actually a dark lord and among the highest ranking Sith among the empire

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Also Bane wasn't a trainee when he fought Kas'im. Bane was actually a dark lord and among the highest ranking Sith among the empire
I have tried mentioning this countless times, very specifically and explicitly, but it is a point some fail to grasp for some reason.

DMB, can you quote me of Kas'im declaring his master as the best?

pg 88, POD

Basically vague nonsense and Kas'im's personal opinion, and he is featless as well

I saw that... no where does it state he is the greatest, but rather instead he was "adept."
The same was said about your average KotOR Dark Jedi. Glad to see they are Kas'im level now.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I have tried mentioning this countless times, very specifically and explicitly, but it is a point some fail to grasp for some reason. because Carthage is particularly adept at ignoring good points that his opponents make and pretending like they never said anything

I have DMB on ignore, I don't care what he says anymore. Now do you have any feats for Kas'im or any rebuttals to Ant's points, what proof do you have Na Daz or Kas'im are better duelists than Cade, Krayt, Nihl, or Talon?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I saw that... no where does it state he is the greatest, but rather instead he was "adept."
The same was said about your average KotOR Dark Jedi. Glad to see they are Kas'im level now. "a skill he passed onto me."that highly implies that his master taught him most of what he knows and since Kas'im has mastered all lightsaber forms to the fullest his master would exhibit great knowledge and skill with the lightsaber

Kas'im only remarked about his observations of his masters training sessions:



Can you please tell me how Kas'ims personal opinion and his memories of his master performing training drills makes him a better duelist than Nihl, Talon, Krayt, Wyyrlok, or Cade?

Kas'im likewise has no dueling feats of his own

Originally posted by WildBantha88
"a skill he passed onto me."that highly implies that his master taught him most of what he knows and since Kas'im has mastered all lightsaber forms to the fullest his master would exhibit great knowledge and skill with the lightsaber
I hate to ruin your moment but that does not mean Na'daz is the greatest duelist in the Order. Na'daz passing knowledge to Kas'im is not a feat for Na'daz. Kas'im directly states that he was stronger and more skilled then Na'daz at the time of his death. It is also stated that since then, Kas'im has perfected his skill with a blade. Note Na'daz was killed an entire decade before Kas'im. Kas'im would have spent many years since then mastering the skill with the blade without his masters guidance. Saying a person got to the power where they were because of there master is fallacious because majority of the time there greatest training is personal in efforts to overcome said master. I recommend for future debates to not quote misleading or inaccurate feats or accolades to help your credibility and to prevent users from believing incorrect statements. Thank you for understanding.

Kas'im 1. Mastered all lightsaber forms to the fullest.

2. Stalemated one of the highest ranking sith of the order.

3. Defeating his master who was prestigious with the lightsaber and taught Kas'im most of what he knows about lightsaber combat which is quite literally everything

Bane is getting murked in every debate...

Not really. Just because Ant is agreeing with Carthage doesn't mean I am loosing. Ant has developed down syndrome as of late

You're right Bantha. Anyone who agrees with carthage on anything has down syndrome.

#Bantha #da #bez #debator

I would praise you for being awesome and intelligent had I not sensed a dab of sarcasm in that remark

So Kas'im is a good fighter because he can stalemate (more like fail to defeat) Trainee Bane, trained in a bunch of styles (which never led to beating anyone of note), and because he beat his master (who likewise never beat anyone of note).

Great one Bantha , you really showed me . You never responded to any of Ant's, mine, or Newguy's points that all of the Legacy duelists have beaten people of their own (unlike Kas'im and his master), and instead made posts like this:





You do know those "sucky underlings" all have beaten the people Ant and Newguy listed? Yet you haven't for two pages shown anyone that Kas'im or Na daz have beaten that puts them above even Sazen, Talon, or Nihl. I'm going to assume that you cannot do so, and you're just going to keep parroting on Kas'ims "technical mastery" in spite of having no evidence he was a good duelist and or has beaten people of the same caliber Krayt has defeated.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Not really. Just because Ant is agreeing with Carthage doesn't mean I am loosing. Ant has developed down syndrome as of late
Reported to moderators. Enjoy you ban!

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Reported to moderators. A just course of action, I would say.

Indeed, especially given the fact I didn't even remotely insult him.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
random fearless sigh neither has any real feats


Uh, I rate Kas'im pretty well, he was one of the best of his era, but it's really evident that Talon and Nihl have a good share of feats. Cade even more-so.

It's lazy debating to go 'Y is featless!' instead of 'I think X is stronger because...'.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Kas'im 1. Mastered all lightsaber forms to the fullest.

2. Stalemated one of the highest ranking sith of the order.

3. Defeating his master who was prestigious with the lightsaber and taught Kas'im most of what he knows about lightsaber combat which is quite literally everything

On one, I'll point out mastery of more forms isn't necessarily much of an edge. Some of the best duelists focus on just one form, and some duelists know all the forms while still managing to not be overly powerful. It simply makes one more flexible.

Two's his main thing. That's Kas'im's best feat.

Three is good, but not unusual, most high-rank people have beatened prestigious masters (Nihl certainly has). We don't know too much of what his master did, after all. His master could've been a Cin Drallig for all we know.

Originally posted by Q99
On one, I'll point out mastery of more forms isn't necessarily much of an edge. Some of the best duelists focus on just one form, and some duelists know all the forms while still managing to not be overly powerful. It simply makes one more flexible.

Kas'im seems to be pretty unique in that he was able to focus on absolutely every form but was still good enough with each form in a way that's comparable to high level saber masters that specialise in just a single form. This isn't a simple matter of a jack of all trades versus a single form master. He was an extremely high level master and perfectionist of every single form, and nobody else really comes close to matching how comprehensively he mastered lightsaber combat, so I'd say it's a huge edge.

Except there's nothing you said that doesn't apply to Sora Bulq.

How so?

Bulq mastered every form and then completely perfected every aspect of them? The first part I buy, but the second I doubt.

Also, mastering all forms is pretty much Yoda and Sidious' main claim to fame when it comes to their skill and the main thing people bring up when discussing them. Tempest always busts out the sources for that point. And it's certainly nothing to sneeze at when it comes to advantages. The Forms round themselves out very nicely and being able to switch between them at will is an edge imo.