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Everytime i see Juggernaut vs Thor or a Superman vs say a Grundy thread the first or atleast one of the first responses is always "Superman punches him to the moon" or "Thor punts him to the sun" but how viable is that tactic in a real bout? I can only think of a handful of times when elite bricks have been BFRed. For example Thor/Nul (weakened Thor vs an Amped Hulk) or Skaar/Hulk vs Juggernaut. But those examples are few and far in between. Anywho just curious as to the forums consensus on the subj....

This isn't a BFR exactly but it very well could have been one.

When Nimrod fought Juggernaut he sent him rocketing into the air. He didn't BFR him because as we know due to the story he wanted him dead.

http://i.imgur.com/eCHvLzNl.jpg

But he did do a BFR on Sebastian Shaw by reversing his gravimetrical polarity.

http://i.imgur.com/CCHuOGHl.jpg

So in answer to your question in full. I think every character would at some point BFR someone. But I don't think the tactic lends itself to other characters as much as it does others. For example Nimrod can reverse the gravimetrical polarity of people sending them rocketing to space, and he can do the thing that he did to Juggernaut.

But if you look at Supes or Thor. While it's viable for them to use BFR as a tactic. Like we see them do. I just think it's more related to powersets that the characters have. It's just not as common.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Everytime i see Juggernaut vs Thor or a Superman vs say a Grundy thread the first or atleast one of the first responses is always "Superman punches him to the moon" or "Thor punts him to the sun" but how viable is that tactic in a real bout? I can only think of a handful of times when elite bricks have been BFRed. For example Thor/Nul (weakened Thor vs an Amped Hulk) or Skaar/Hulk vs Juggernaut. But those examples are few and far in between. Anywho just curious as to the forums consensus on the subj....

Depends on how intelligent you see the characters, I suppose.

Rhino vs Spidey? If I were Rhino, the moment I managed to grab hold of him I'd throw him as far and as hard as I could.

The next point would be, but these guys in character wouldn't do that. Superman wouldn't punt XXX to the Moon.

It then goes down to their intelligence. Would Superman, if he was losing afight against XXX, really not start exploring other avenues of victory?

Obviously BFR is a viable option, faster characters like superman can bfr characters like hulk easy, all he has to do is pick him up using his speed and dump him far far away.

It's a shitty way of copping out of a forum fight

Originally posted by psycho gundam
It's a shitty way of copping out of a forum fight

A lot of the characters that are picked to bar could win by speed advantage anyway. Bfr is a viable argument and one of the most practical and easiest ways to win an argument. Why waste time arguing for pages when you can win with three letters (bfr).

Originally posted by thingy150
A lot of the characters that are picked to bar could win by speed advantage anyway. Bfr is a viable argument and one of the most practical and easiest ways to win an argument. Why waste time arguing for pages when you can win with three letters (bfr).

Because there is a percentage that this strategy would not work due to the resistance of the character that is going to be BFR'd. You do know about Murphy's Law right?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Everytime i see Juggernaut vs Thor or a Superman vs say a Grundy thread the first or atleast one of the first responses is always "Superman punches him to the moon" or "Thor punts him to the sun" but how viable is that tactic in a real bout? I can only think of a handful of times when elite bricks have been BFRed. For example Thor/Nul (weakened Thor vs an Amped Hulk) or Skaar/Hulk vs Juggernaut. But those examples are few and far in between. Anywho just curious as to the forums consensus on the subj....

This is 100% viable in a non PIS fight. There is no reason to then wont be able to do this in a fight. Is 100% PIS.

Originally posted by Stoic
Because there is a percentage that this strategy would not work due to the resistance of the character that is going to be BFR'd. You do know about Murphy's Law right?


BFR is an easy thing to pull off, the character they are BFRing weighs much less than what their strength lvl is and if the character has a speed advantage then the bfr is an obvious option.

It is just a way a character with a clear advantage can win.

Originally posted by thingy150
BFR is an easy thing to pull off, the character they are BFRing weighs much less than what their strength lvl is and if the character has a speed advantage then the bfr is an obvious option.

It is just a way a character with a clear advantage can win.

It's obvious, but it may not always work because nothing is guaranteed. The chances of the attempted BFR working increase with the speed disparity. That is obvious, but there are always other factors that may lead to the intended victim escaping the bum rush. Superman is faster than Doomsday, but when he attempted to BFR him, Doomsday broke out, and brought them crashing back to the Earth. It would also depend on the power set like One Angry Scot mentioned. Speed is not the only thing that matters. Take Magneto for example, he would never have to mix it up with guys like Colossus, Cyborg, the Metal Men.. etc.. Nor would he require speed to end the battle with possibly more speed than Superman. Lots of factors to consider.

Originally posted by Stoic
It's obvious, but it may not always work because nothing is guaranteed. The chances of the attempted BFR working increase with the speed disparity. That is obvious, but there are always other factors that may lead to the intended victim escaping the bum rush. Superman is faster than Doomsday, but when he attempted to BFR him, Doomsday broke out, and brought them crashing back to the Earth. It would also depend on the power set like One Angry Scot mentioned. Speed is not the only thing that matters. Take Magneto for example, he would never have to mix it up with guys like Colossus, Cyborg, the Metal Men.. etc.. Nor would he require speed to end the battle with possibly more speed than Superman. Lots of factors to consider.

Doomsday is faster than a lot of people that superman could BFR, of course it may not always work, nothing is guaranteed. Nothing is for sure in a fight it is basically just people guessing by using feats. BFR is a very viable option just like anything else, just like all those other things it is not guaranteed but we do the best we can to come up with a way that a character can beat the other. Every single one of these battle threads is subjective but to further the thread and the argument we give ways a character can beat the other, are those ways perfect, no, but we do what we can to try and make an educated guess.

It depends on the damage soak of a person. Example, punching someone like Doomsday or Hulk extremely hard probably won't send them out of orbit due to their bodies absorbing most of the impact but using other means of bfr could work.

Originally posted by carver9
It depends on the damage soak of a person. Example, punching someone like Doomsday or Hulk extremely hard probably won't send them out of orbit due to their bodies absorbing most of the impact but using other means of bfr could work.

You don't have to punch someone to BFR them, literally you could just pick them up and with superior speed just dump them in outer space, that simple.

Originally posted by thingy150
You don't have to punch someone to BFR them, literally you could just pick them up and with superior speed just dump them in outer space, that simple.

Yea but that rarely happens. Even superspeed which everyone brags about so much isnt an auto win

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Yea but that rarely happens. Even superspeed which everyone brags about so much isnt an auto win



And he obviously didn't read my post. I clearly said there are other ways of bfring.

Originally posted by carver9


And he obviously didn't read my post. I clearly said there are other ways of bfring.

Exactly. I was on comicvine earlier and read an argument stating supes would just grab hulk and fly him to the moon. First off he'd have to k.o him first (which wouldn't happen) and if he didn't k.o. him grab him and fly him fast enough that he couldn't react without hulk hitting him or breaking his hold. Its just not viable

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Exactly. I was on comicvine earlier and read an argument stating supes would just grab hulk and fly him to the moon. First off he'd have to k.o him first (which wouldn't happen) and if he didn't k.o. him grab him and fly him fast enough that he couldn't react without hulk hitting him or breaking his hold. Its just not viable

Are you you serious? SUPERMAN HAS A HUGE SPEED AND REACTION TIME ADVANTAGE OVER THE HULK, HE DOES NOT NEED TO KNOCK HIM OUT TO BFR HIM. LOL TO ME IT LOOKS LIKE YOU LOST AN ARGUMENT TO SOMEONE AND NOW YOU ARE COMING HERE AND COMPLAINING ABOUT BFR.

DAMN KIDS ON THIS FORUM ARE SO BIASED IT IS NOT EVEN FUNNY, YOU CANNOT WIN ARGUMENTS SO YOU JUST IGNORE THINGS AN MAKE SH*T UP.

SUPERMANS SPEED AND REACTION TIME IS HOW HE BFR'S HULK, BOTH NEW 52 SUPERMAN AND POST CRISIS HAVE GONE FTL AND THEY BOTH HAVE INCREDIBLE REACTION TIME SCANS.

Originally posted by thingy150
Are you you serious? SUPERMAN HAS A HUGE SPEED AND REACTION TIME ADVANTAGE OVER THE HULK, HE DOES NOT NEED TO KNOCK HIM OUT TO BFR HIM. LOL TO ME IT LOOKS LIKE YOU LOST AN ARGUMENT TO SOMEONE AND NOW YOU ARE COMING HERE AND COMPLAINING ABOUT BFR.

DAMN KIDS ON THIS FORUM ARE SO BIASED IT IS NOT EVEN FUNNY, YOU CANNOT WIN ARGUMENTS SO YOU JUST IGNORE THINGS AN MAKE SH*T UP.

SUPERMANS SPEED AND REACTION TIME IS HOW HE BFR'S HULK, BOTH NEW 52 SUPERMAN AND POST CRISIS HAVE GONE FTL AND THEY BOTH HAVE INCREDIBLE REACTION TIME SCANS.

WTF, man?

Originally posted by -Pr-
WTF, man?

I am very sorry for the caps, carver is being ridiculous and i am in a weird mood.

Is carver a troll? or is he just that biased?

This week Nova BFR Kluh (amped version of Hulk ?).

Then it is the second amped version of Hulk who was BFR.

The only reason Hulk is not BFR more often is PIS and nothing more.

Well, sometimes its CIS......but yeah, agreed, PIS plays a big part a lot of the times.

I agree.

My point is: there is no logical reason to BFR be hard.

Originally posted by thingy150
Are you you serious? SUPERMAN HAS A HUGE SPEED AND REACTION TIME ADVANTAGE OVER THE HULK, HE DOES NOT NEED TO KNOCK HIM OUT TO BFR HIM. LOL TO ME IT LOOKS LIKE YOU LOST AN ARGUMENT TO SOMEONE AND NOW YOU ARE COMING HERE AND COMPLAINING ABOUT BFR.

DAMN KIDS ON THIS FORUM ARE SO BIASED IT IS NOT EVEN FUNNY, YOU CANNOT WIN ARGUMENTS SO YOU JUST IGNORE THINGS AN MAKE SH*T UP.

SUPERMANS SPEED AND REACTION TIME IS HOW HE BFR'S HULK, BOTH NEW 52 SUPERMAN AND POST CRISIS HAVE GONE FTL AND THEY BOTH HAVE INCREDIBLE REACTION TIME SCANS.

First off I'm not carver. Secondly i don't have an account at comicvine i just ghost there from time to time. Thirdly bfr as a tactic against bricks who cant fly is rarely used. It's played up big on message boards but not in actual comics. Everyone wants to go h2h, even pacifist like Radd who prefer blasting eventually succumbs to fisticuffs. Imo the editors or whoever at the big houses don't believe its a likely or rather a good ending to a fight

Say Thor is fighting a rampaging Hulk. Thor decides to bfr him to another state. That's NOT gonna stop his rampage. He's gonna get back up wreck more shit and continue doing whatever he was doing in the first place. Plus the amount of power they'd have to unleash to remove said character from the battlefield would generally speaking leave them depleted. I just think there are better options

This is a comic forum, we discuss the power sets and what people could do if the plot was not required, the reason you do not see a lot of bfr in comic is because it is too easy.

With a speed advantage and a flight advantage one of the obvious conclusions is that bfr could take place.

People like superman could literally grab hulk and fly him to outer space before he knows what happens.

The reason op's often say "no bfr" is because it is an easy and logical way to win an argument.

We also take their character into account, not just powersets.

Otherwise, Flash rips everyone's eyes out at lightspeed....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
We also take their character into account, not just powersets.

Otherwise, Flash rips everyone's eyes out at lightspeed....


BFR has nothing to do with no morals. Obviously character plays a role but a lot of the time we have heroes fighting each other for no reason, isn't that a tad out of character, not all fights are completely in character and if they were a lot of the fights would not even be happening.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Exactly. I was on comicvine earlier and read an argument stating supes would just grab hulk and fly him to the moon. First off he'd have to k.o him first (which wouldn't happen) and if he didn't k.o. him grab him and fly him fast enough that he couldn't react without hulk hitting him or breaking his hold. Its just not viable

if Clark is flying at lightspeed how will hulk break free, does he have faster than light reaction or something?

Sin's crazy statement about Superman not being able to K.O Hulk notwithstanding ( ) BFR seems to only be put into play when it's

a) Someone who fights very logically (Nimrod)

b) It's impossible to win (Skaar, Thor)

c) They don't really care about proving that they're stronger/more powerful (WWH)

Let's also consider that BFR is incredibly boring and that comics need to sell.

Exactly.

Not to make this into a Superwankfest, but clause a) is actually quite major.

You have a guy like pre-DCnu Clark, who is a prize winning journalist, and a member of one of the most advanced civilisations in the DC galaxy, AND a member of their major science family....NOT fighting logically? When he faces Parasite, a guy who gets stronger as time progresses, should he stay and engage in fisticuffs until Parasite becomes strong enough to be a threat?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111130781/4209151-7610196334-17848.jpg

Or, say, WW, who knows every battle tactic under the sun, and doesn't let pride get in the way (like say, with Thor sometimes) - do we really suspend our belief and say she would continue fighting until she gets KOed? If she sees she's losing, and can use a cheap win (lasso, BFR) she will take it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Exactly.

Not to make this into a Superwankfest, but clause a) is actually quite major.

You have a guy like pre-DCnu Clark, who is a prize winning journalist, and a member of one of the most advanced civilisations in the DC galaxy, AND a member of their major science family....NOT fighting logically? When he faces Parasite, a guy who gets stronger as time progresses, should he stay and engage in fisticuffs until Parasite becomes strong enough to be a threat?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111130781/4209151-7610196334-17848.jpg

Or, say, WW, who knows every battle tactic under the sun, and doesn't let pride get in the way (like say, with Thor sometimes) - do we really suspend our belief and say she would continue fighting until she gets KOed? If she sees she's losing, and can use a cheap win (lasso, BFR) she will take it.

Neither diana or clark would choose bfr in a one on one bout imo

Even if they were losing?

Superman generally does when the threat is greatest. Doomsday, Darkseid, that stupid issue with Parasite (though not the only time hes tried that with Parasite iirc).

Originally posted by krisblaze
Sin's crazy statement about Superman not being able to K.O Hulk notwithstanding ( ) BFR seems to only be put into play when it's

a) Someone who fights very logically (Nimrod)

b) It's impossible to win (Skaar, Thor)

c) They don't really care about proving that they're stronger/more powerful (WWH)

Let's also consider that BFR is incredibly boring and that comics need to sell.

He won't. Not going h2h

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Even if they were losing?

U have a instance of her doing so?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman generally does when the threat is greatest. Doomsday, Darkseid, that stupid issue with Parasite (though not the only time hes tried that with Parasite iirc).

How much physical contact does parasite require?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
He won't. Not going h2h



U have a instance of her doing so?



How much physical contact does parasite require?

Was referring to her using her lasso as a cheap win.
In threads where that's been turned off, as she has the cheap win mindset, why not BFR? But I can try and have a look.

Theres just absolutelt no reason to think that Superman couldnt knock out the Hulk. Regardless of your opinion on that fight that is a ridiculous stance to take.

There isnt anyone Superman can bring down with enough punches.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Theres just absolutelt no reason to think that Superman couldnt knock out the Hulk. Regardless of your opinion on that fight that is a ridiculous stance to take.

There isnt anyone Superman can bring down with enough punches.

Really? Sounds like you're lowballing a lot of characters

bfr sucks in the forum and i've long been a proponent of having it removed as an option. it happens in comics, which is cool, but it has always been poitnless in a forum match imo. ONE of the big reasons is because it DOES end discussion, hence limiting discussion regarding actual battles. in a default situation, the arena is domed anyway (or it always was before...) and so the option is never viable unless a special stip or environment is expressly stated in the OP. and when it IS viable, it's useless as it is generally indefensible by one party. so...wtf is the point? it leads to no discussion, it doesn't solve the question of who is more powerful and it generally gives one side an indefensible advantage. very productive tactic.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Really? Sounds like you're lowballing a lot of characters
Haha what? If anything Im overestimating supermans ability.

But its obviously the opposite when you think, contrary to thousands of Hulk comics.., that its not possible for Superman to knock out the Hulk

It truly boggles the mind. How powerful do you think the Hulk is for it to be impossible for arguably the strongest herald to not be able to knock him out? Superman swings out of his paygrade so often that the Hulk would have to range far above Skyfather for it to be an impossibility that Superman is capable of knocking him out..

Originally posted by Sin I AM
He won't. Not going h2h



U have a instance of her doing so?



How much physical contact does parasite require?

Honestly depends on the writer. Sometimes Parasite doesn't even need physical contact, just proximity.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Really? Sounds like you're lowballing a lot of characters

You think Superman can't physically knock out certain other heralds?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
but how viable is that tactic in a real bout? It depends on how smart/stupid the comic writer is (or, more charitably, how willing they are to ignore physics for the sake of telling a good story).

For Superman, there is absolutely no reason he wouldn't be able to easily BFR a straight brick like Grundy. He would literally just have to slap the bottom of their chins and, for all their strength, they would find themselves rocketing into space. Flying bricks like Superman can withstand BFR more easily due to their ability to outright deny inertia with their flight, but a grounded brick would have absolutely no defense.

It also would definitely not deplete most of his power. It would be the easiest thing in the world to do. Also incredibly anticlimactic. That's probably why it doesn't happen too often.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Haha what? If anything Im overestimating supermans ability.

But its obviously the opposite when you think, contrary to thousands of Hulk comics.., that its not possible for Superman to knock out the Hulk
Who has physically ko'd Hulk in the last 10 years? Bar instances of him being weakened first.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Who has physically ko'd Hulk in the last 10 years? Bar instances of him being weakened first.

Random undersea monster choked him out

Lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Random undersea monster choked him out
You mean the Korphin? It was huge. It wasn't just due to the monster though, it was a combination of the sea pressure aswell as the lack of leverage that left Hulk unable to break free. IIRC he wasn't actually shown to be unconscious anyway.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Random undersea monster choked him out

Sungod, Nick Fury, Pandora, Red Hulk, Umar...

I could go on all night

Nick Fury happened off panel and he prepped to do it. Hit Hulk with some type of gamma burst.

Sun God has context.

Pandora?

Red Hulk did ko him by drainage.

Lol...Umar didn't drop him. They didn't even fight.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Sungod, Nick Fury, Pandora, Red Hulk, Umar...

I could go on all night
Pandora? Sungod didn't physically beat him down, in fact the opposite happened and Banner restricted Hulk in that fight. Nick Fury used a friggin Watcher killer weapon, Red Hulk drained him, and Umar had sex with him. Again who has PHYSICALLY ko'd him in the last 10 years?

When you answer that then you will realise what Sin said isn't far-fetched at all. Trying to beat Hulk by punching him these days is pretty much an impossible task for any herald, even one as powerful as Superman.

Does anyone have Hickman email address?

Originally posted by carver9

Sun God has context.





What context ?

Originally posted by eaebiakuya


What context ?

Did you read the comic? Asking for a reason.

A dinosaur and a snake beat hulk

Really?

Yes. But they were not recent. More then 10 years ago

Other recent examples would be Zeus, Titannus (context), that weird alien thing from the savage land, etc

Originally posted by -K-M-
Yes. But they were not recent. More then 10 years ago

Other recent examples would be Zeus, Titannus (context), that weird alien thing from the savage land, etc

Zeus didn't ko him and Titannus is more than 10 yrs ago AND Titannus was feeding off Hulks power while weakening him.

What weird Alien thing? The one that punched him into the ocean? Is there proof he was koed?

You're just mad because Carver is more Canadian than you.

Originally posted by carver9
Zeus didn't ko him and Titannus is more than 10 yrs ago AND Titannus was feeding off Hulks power while weakening him.

What weird Alien thing? The one that punched him into the ocean? Is there proof he was koed?

How do you figure he wasn't ko'ed by Zeus? also no it was less then 10 years ago. Check again.

Yes, he was dead limb flying through the air.

Originally posted by -K-M-
How do you figure he wasn't ko'ed by Zeus? also no it was less then 10 years ago. Check again.

Yes, he was dead limb flying through the air.

Because he wasn't koed. Punched in the river, hands reaching out the water, next time we see him he is talking and this was right after the fight. He was struggling to talk but he was talking.

I feel like that was more than 10 yrs ago but I will check, and it doesn't matter since it was plot involved. Strange knew Hulk could take him but Titannus used gamma absorption to win. Don't think that's what Sorrow is asking but if you want, you can use that as proof even though you'll be wrong.

So he was knocked out because he was flying through the air? What should he have done when he got punched by the monster to prove he wasn't koed?

Originally posted by carver9
Because he wasn't koed. Punched in the river, hands reaching out the water, next time we see him he is talking and this was right after the fight. He was struggling to talk but he was talking.

I feel like that was more than 10 yrs ago but I will check, and it doesn't matter since it was plot involved. Strange knew Hulk could take him but Titannus used gamma absorption to win. Don't think that's what Sorrow is asking but if you want, you can use that as proof even though you'll be wrong.

So he was knocked out because he was flying through the air? What should he have done when he got punched by the monster to prove he wasn't koed?

You mean when he was chained to the stone while birds were eating him alive. Haha oh carver. Only you would think he was "fine"

It was published in 2005. Honestly it takes one second to look up also if you noticed I put in brackets (context). You're the worst. Seriously.

Flying through the air didn't ko him. Sad you would even think that. The hit that sent him into the air is what caused him to fly through the air lifeless. Then a midair explosion occurred blowing off his clothes and then he was eaten by the sea creature.

Originally posted by -K-M-
You mean when he was chained to the stone while birds were eating him alive. Haha oh carver. Only you would think he was "fine"

It was published in 2005. Honestly it takes one second to look up also if you noticed I put in brackets (context). You're the worst. Seriously.

Flying through the air didn't ko him. Sad you would even think that. The hit that sent him into the air is what caused him to fly through the air lifeless. Then a midair explosion occurred blowing off his clothes and then he was eaten by the sea creature.

I never said he didn't take a beating. We are discussing koed here. Ya know, him being knocked out.

I believe you. Didn't pay attention to the brackets.

A hit didn't send him through the air. He dived at the monster and the monster punched him away 'while he was already in the air' and then the bomb blew up, and then a fish ate him. No where did it show him being koed.

So if he wasn't ko'ed how did he get chained up then? Politely ask him to walk over to yhe rock so they can chain him up?

If he wasn't ko'ed why was he dead weight and lifeless as he flew through the air? If he wasn't ko'ed why didn't he just come right back instantly?

Originally posted by leonidas
bfr sucks in the forum and i've long been a proponent of having it removed as an option. it happens in comics, which is cool, but it has always been poitnless in a forum match imo. ONE of the big reasons is because it DOES end discussion, hence limiting discussion regarding actual battles. in a default situation, the arena is domed anyway (or it always was before...) and so the option is never viable unless a special stip or environment is expressly stated in the OP. and when it IS viable, it's useless as it is generally indefensible by one party. so...wtf is the point? it leads to no discussion, it doesn't solve the question of who is more powerful and it generally gives one side an indefensible advantage. very productive tactic.

This right here contains some very excellent points.

Originally posted by -K-M-
So if he wasn't ko'ed how did he get chained up then? Politely ask him to walk over to yhe rock so they can chain him up?

If he wasn't ko'ed why was he dead weight and lifeless as he flown through the air? If he wasn't ko'ed why didn't he just come right back instantly?

Because Zeus beat the slob out of him, that's why. If you beat someone long enough, it's possible they can't move or fight back against you whatever you are trying to do. Then it's Zeus...no telling how Hulk got chained up.

I don't know...I guess he was dead weight because he cant fly. Maybe if he danced in the air, that would've been proof that he was awake. All in all, you dont have any proof of him being koed.

Originally posted by carver9
Because Zeus beat the slob out of him, that's why. If you beat someone long enough, it's possible they can't move or fight back against you whatever you are trying to do. Then it's Zeus...no telling how Hulk got chained up. Then again first panel of him on the rock was him waking up.

I don't know...I guess he was dead weight because he cant fly. Maybe if he danced in the air, that would've been proof that he was awake. All in all, you dont have any proof of him being koed.

Exactly. So if he is lifeless and has no strength to fight back is it really different from a ko? The answer would be no. Even in boxing and mma that would be ruled as a TKO (technical knock out)

Or he would have moved or did something other then go into a dead weight pose. Hulk can jump for miles and has been hit in the air before and he actually showed life. Here he was lifeless and dead weight. All and all you if you actually look at the facts he was. Why didn't he come back then carver? Hmmmmm?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Exactly. So if he is lifeless and has no strength to fight back is it really different from a ko? The answer would be no. Even in boxing and mma that would be ruled as a TKO (technical knock out)

Or he would have moved or did something other then go into a dead weight pose. Hulk can jump for miles and has been hit in the air before and he actually showed life. Here he was lifeless and dead weight. All and all you if you actually look at the facts he was. Why didn't he come back then carver? Hmmmmm?

He wasn't asleep so he wasn't koed.

We don't know if he was koed. Him not moving his hands or figures isn't proof of him being koed. Why would he jump back at the monster when the monster walked off after slapping Hulk?

Originally posted by carver9
He wasn't asleep so he wasn't koed.

We don't know if he was koed. Him not moving his hands or figures isn't proof of him being koed. Why would he jump back at the monster when the monster walked off after slapping Hulk?

You don't actually have to be asleep to be ko'Ed. Even once again inreal life there are standing KO's and the people weren't actually asleep. Again he woke up when he was on the rock and even if he was dragged and wasn't "asleep" that's still a TKO.

Him not moving for an extended period of time after the hit and then not returning right away is proof enough. So now your reason for him not going back is the creature walked away? Haha riiiiiiight. Not like the creature was exactly hiding nor did he even walk that far away. Great work carver, your logic always impresses me (for the wrong reasons)

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Exactly. I was on comicvine earlier and read an argument stating supes would just grab hulk and fly him to the moon. First off he'd have to k.o him first (which wouldn't happen) and if he didn't k.o. him grab him and fly him fast enough that he couldn't react without hulk hitting him or breaking his hold. Its just not viable



If Hulk's base strength was actually greater (or even equal) than Superman's like a lot of misinformed people believe then that might be true but it isn't. His base strength is nowhere near Superman's level. If Superman waits around and tries slugging it out with Hulk first thereby letting Hulk get angrier then yeah, it could be a problem but even then I'm still not convinced that Superman, with his infinitely superior speed, couldn't take him to space (he doesn't have to take him all the way to the moon) and drop him off there before Hulk can do a damn thing about it. Hulk is NOT Dooomsday. His stats are inferior to DD's across the board. Especially speed. Doomsday broke out of Superman's hold in time but Hulk probably wouldn't.

Heck, Clark could probably just throw him into space.

Originally posted by -K-M-
You don't actually have to be asleep to be ko'Ed. Even once again a real life there are standing KO's and the people weren't actually asleep. Again he woke up when he was on the rock and even if he was dragged and wasn't "asleep" that's still a TKO.

Him not moving for an extended period of time after the hit and then not returning right away is proof enough. So now your reason for him not going back is the creature walked away? Haha riiiiiiight. Not like the creature was exactly hiding nor did he even walk that far away. Great work carver, your logic always impresses me (for the wrong reasons)

So him making complete sentences means he was koed? So the condition he was in when he was pinned to the rock, Zeus would have had trouble forcing him onto a rock and chaining him up again?



Extended period of time? The time wasn't long between the hit and Hulk falling in the water. Let's not make assumptions here...do you have anything else besides your debatable scenes of Hulk being koed?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Neither diana or clark would choose bfr in a one on one bout imo


If Clark is fighting someone like Hulk and he starts to realize that as Hulk gerts angrier he gets stronger then I'm sure he would do whatever needs to be done in order to win and yes, BFRing is a viable option for doing that.

Originally posted by carver9
So him making complete sentences means he was koed? So the condition he was in when he was pinned to the rock, Zeus would have had trouble forcing him onto a rock and chaining him up again?



Extended period of time? The time wasn't long between the hit and Hulk falling in the water. Let's not make assumptions here...do you have anything else besides your debatable scenes of Hulk being koed?

That's great, but again how did he get to the rock? How was he chained up? Another real life example is when people are concussed they can talk but they exactly are not all there. What Zeus did to hulk if you wish to continue to belief he wasn't asleep is a TKO. Same thing.

Make assumptions? those are facts. He was lifeless in the air for the duration when he went flying to where he was landing and got eaten by the sea creature. Another point of fact is he didn't return for an extended period of time. That's all fact. You made the assumption he didn't come back as the creature walked away

No because I wasn't the one actually in th debate (krisblaze was) I made 3 offhand lists of recent examples and once again you broadcast your ever so dim wisdom.

Originally posted by leonidas
bfr sucks in the forum and i've long been a proponent of having it removed as an option. it happens in comics, which is cool, but it has always been poitnless in a forum match imo. ONE of the big reasons is because it DOES end discussion, hence limiting discussion regarding actual battles. in a default situation, the arena is domed anyway (or it always was before...) and so the option is never viable unless a special stip or environment is expressly stated in the OP. and when it IS viable, it's useless as it is generally indefensible by one party. so...wtf is the point? it leads to no discussion, it doesn't solve the question of who is more powerful and it generally gives one side an indefensible advantage. very productive tactic.


Well, there is a very simple solution to that. If the thread starter shares your opinion then he can just say "No BFR". Problem solved.

Originally posted by Star428
If Hulk's base strength was actually greater (or even equal) than Superman's like a lot of misinformed people believe then that might be true but it isn't. His base strength is nowhere near Superman's level. If Superman waits around and tries slugging it out with Hulk first thereby letting Hulk get angrier then yeah, it could be a problem but even then I'm still not convinced that Superman, with his infinitely superior speed, couldn't take him to space (he doesn't have to take him all the way to the moon) and drop him off there before Hulk can do a damn thing about it. Hulk is NOT Dooomsday. His stats are inferior to DD's across the board. Especially speed. Doomsday broke out of Superman's hold in time but Hulk probably wouldn't.

Heck, Clark could probably just throw him into space.

Correct. however Superman often fights it out with guys below the Hulk's base level. If he went Darkseid killer at the jump he would win against nearly every Hulk that has ever been shown (Mindless, WW Hulk, Nul, and possibly War Hulk being the exception).

Originally posted by krisblaze
Haha what? If anything Im overestimating supermans ability.

But its obviously the opposite when you think, contrary to thousands of Hulk comics.., that its not possible for Superman to knock out the Hulk

It truly boggles the mind. How powerful do you think the Hulk is for it to be impossible for arguably the strongest herald to not be able to knock him out? Superman swings out of his paygrade so often that the Hulk would have to range far above Skyfather for it to be an impossibility that Superman is capable of knocking him out..


If Superman starts throwing some of his stronger punches from the start of fight then it's very likely that he can KO HUlk but the longer he waits around by trying to slug-it-out with him the more likely than is no longer a viable option.

Originally posted by -K-M-
That's great, but again how did he get to the rock? How was he chained up? Another real life example is when people are concussed they can talk but they exactly are not all there. What Zeus did to hulk if you wish to continue to belief he wasn't asleep is a TKO. Same thing.

Make assumptions? those are facts. He was lifeless in the air for the duration when he went flying to where he was landing and got eaten by the sea creature. Another point of fact is he didn't return for an extended period of time. That's all fact. You made the assumption he didn't come back as the creature walked away

No because I wasn't the one actually in th debate (krisblaze was) I made 3 offhand lists of recent examples and once again you broadcast your ever so dim wisdom.

Zeus chained his weakened body to a rock. Remember, he couldn't amp or heal afterwards. There's your answer.

He wasn't knocked out against Zeus though. That's my argument. His eyes wasn't closed...he was still functional. Weakened but functional.

Those are not facts because there's not proof he is koed. What other examples do you have? Do I honestly have to show you what a knock out look like?

Originally posted by Star428
If Hulk's base strength was actually greater (or even equal) than Superman's like a lot of misinformed people believe then that might be true but it isn't. His base strength is nowhere near Superman's level. If Superman waits around and tries slugging it out with Hulk first thereby letting Hulk get angrier then yeah, it could be a problem but even then I'm still not convinced that Superman, with his infinitely superior speed, couldn't take him to space (he doesn't have to take him all the way to the moon) and drop him off there before Hulk can do a damn thing about it. Hulk is NOT Dooomsday. His stats are inferior to DD's across the board. Especially speed. Doomsday broke out of Superman's hold in time but Hulk probably wouldn't.

Heck, Clark could probably just throw him into space.

No such thing as a base strength hulk

Originally posted by carver9
Because he wasn't koed. Punched in the river, hands reaching out the water, next time we see him he is talking and this was right after the fight. He was struggling to talk but he was talking.

I feel like that was more than 10 yrs ago but I will check, and it doesn't matter since it was plot involved. Strange knew Hulk could take him but Titannus used gamma absorption to win. Don't think that's what Sorrow is asking but if you want, you can use that as proof even though you'll be wrong.

So he was knocked out because he was flying through the air? What should he have done when he got punched by the monster to prove he wasn't koed?
I asked for straight up physical losses of Hulks because of a comment Krisblaze made about it basically being lolworthy that Superman would be unable to physically defeat him, tbh it's not as far fetched as he would like to think. Hulk has also physically manhandled every Superclone he has faced in Marvel, and even defeating a more powerful one imo (Sentry).

Hulk has losses of course, no character is completely unbeatable (even the phucking Living Tribunal has been defeated before) his mind can be attacked, depending on the writer he can be weakened by absorbing his energy, he can be defeated by powerful enough energy/magic output, bfr etc but of all the high heralds his record in the h2h colomn over this past decade has been near impeccable. Beating him by punches is not the answer, I have a sneaking feeling even Thanos will find this out next month if they fight.

Bfr is a copout but it is needed for beings like Hulk/Doomsday/Thanos etc who are very difficult to defeat conventionally.

Originally posted by carver9
Zeus chained his weakened body to a rock. Remember, he couldn't amp or heal afterwards. There's your answer.

He wasn't knocked out against Zeus though. That's my argument. His eyes wasn't closed...he was still functional. Weakened but functional.

Those are not facts because there's not proof he is koed. What other examples do you have? Do I honestly have to show you what a knock out look like?

Please look up what a technical knock out is, a standing ko, concussion effects, etc. I'm tired of explaining basic things with you.

Your eyes do not have to be closed to be ko'ed. This isn't even comic book science this happens regularly in real life. Seriously.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
I asked for straight up physical losses of Hulks because of a comment Krisblaze made about it basically being lolworthy that Superman would be unable to physically defeat him

And there we go. My examples still stand. Sorry carver

I could probably come up with a ton more by digging through Hulk comics, but what's the point

Whether he's been KO'd very little or not doesn't really prove anything. It's all about who he fights and if the fights have gone on long enough.

If the Hulk fans think that him not being KO'd a lot in the recent years is proof of it being impossible to knock him out, or proof that he can't be knocked out....then yeah...what's the point in continuing any kind of debate with them?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Yes. But they were not recent. More then 10 years ago

Other recent examples would be Zeus, Titannus (context), that weird alien thing from the savage land, etc

There's also Thor.

Originally posted by Star428
Well, there is a very simple solution to that. If the thread starter shares your opinion then he can just say "No BFR". Problem solved.

yep, i agree. i just think that should be the default assumption in every forum fight.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
No such thing as a base strength hulk







Huh? Are you saying that Hulk doesn't start off at a certain level of strength and then get stronger as he gets angrier? I thought that was an essential element of the character of the Hulk. I guess all the stuff I've read online by fans and writers over the years are just ignorant on the Hulk then. You're essentially saying that his strength level never varies? Am I understanding you correctly?I'm pretty sure I remember in 'Secret Wars' Reed Richards or Captain America intentionally trying to get Hulk madder so he would be able to keep holding that mountain up. Heck, Hulk himself even said he understood why they were trying to piss him off. His words were something like "You understood that the madder I get the angrier I get". I guess the Hulk himself doesn't know what he's talking about regarding his own friggin' powers, right?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
No such thing as a base strength hulk

Originally posted by Star428



Huh? Are you saying that Hulk doesn't start off at a certain level of strength and then get stronger as he gets angrier? I thought that was an essential element of the character of the Hulk. I guess all the stuff I've read online by fans and writers over the years are just ignorant on the Hulk then. You're essentially saying that his strength level never varies? Am I understanding you correctly?I'm pretty sure I remember in 'Secret Wars' Reed Richards or Captain America intentionally trying to get Hulk madder so he would be able to keep holding that mountain up. Heck, Hulk himself even said he understood why they were trying to piss him off. His words were something like "You understood that the madder I get the angrier I get". I guess the Hulk himself doesn't know what he's talking about regarding his own friggin' powers, right?

On KMC the Hulk starts off wherever.

He generally starts off at a point he's reached 2-3 times in 40-50 years, and then still grows stronger!

Originally posted by krisblaze
On KMC the Hulk starts off wherever.

He generally starts off at a point he's reached 2-3 times in 40-50 years, and then still grows stronger!






Oh, I see now. That clears that up.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
No such thing as a base strength hulk

Wow, and people just let this be said and pawn it off as cannon.



Coming from you thinking Sentinels can adapt to a Alien without Mutant Gene, I can see the confusion here.

Does everybody f*cking hate each other on this site? From what i have seen only a few people who are fanboys of the same character seem to put up with each other, the rest of your relationships are just volatile.

Kris is the biggest Hulk hater on KMC, next to Thingy. Wouldn't take him serious at all. I would love to see some proof of current Hulks 'base strength'. We have a lot of assumptions here, I know someone have some scans.

Originally posted by carver9
Kris is the biggest Hulk hater on KMC, next to Thingy. Wouldn't take him serious at all. I would love to see some proof of current Hulks 'base strength'. We have a lot of assumptions here, I know someone have some scans.


Not even close to a hulk hater you dumb fanboy, i just don't ride him like you do.

Every thread you made has been hulk involved and you got upset when people voted for the Hulk. Doesn't seem like you like the character.

carver, you argue without an argument in favor of the hulk in every thread, you ignore speed advantages, you have used indestructible hulk scans to support savage hulk and you always, always vote for the hulk.

captain atom vs hulk, you voted for him, could not prove in any way shape or form that he won but you still voted for him.

Hell you basically hate thanos because he is superior to the hulk and you are afraid of what he is going to do to him.

We understand Carver. Hulk always has skyfather level strength and is stronger than everybody else who is not an abstract. When Hulk gets madder he then becomes an abstract-level being!

Originally posted by carver9
Every thread you made has been hulk involved and you got upset when people voted for the Hulk. Doesn't seem like you like the character.

Not once did i get upset, how did you get that? I just asked multiple people how the hulk "stomps" and none of you can actually give an answer, its pretty sad.

When i made the hal jordan thread and proved he could bfr all you guys did was call him scared after you said hulk "stomps".

I do not hate hulk i hate how you fanboys suck at arguing for him, zero of scans and ignoring the advantages people have over him is what you guys do every thread

Again I ask, post scans about Hulks base strength. How about I start this. A calm Hulk breaks Adamantium.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/19704414/14.jpg.html

Your image does not work. Out of curiosity what kind of adamantium is it?

It's Ultron body. Hulk need primary adamantium to survive in his blood stream because anything else would melt/get destroyed. My image worked just fine.

Originally posted by thingy150
Your image does not work. Out of curiosity what kind of adamantium is it?
Don't be too impressed.

Darkhawk destroyed a primary ultron with one blast.

Adamantium ain't what it used to be.

Scans and Adamantium is one of the most durable objects in comics. Don't hate on it because of Hulk. Give credit where credit is due.

Would also like to post this just because it's a work of art. These weapons were classified as being Mjlonir like weapons. Made out of enchanted Uru and blessed by a Skyfather that was said to have power comparable to Odin. Betty spoke with Hulk (he was being hypnotized), begged him to resurface and in order to break the possession he was in, Hulk had to crush enchanted Uru. The thing that cast the spell upon him.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/9397730/10-12-2011_20.jpg.html

Did this with his bare hands.

Hmm so i guess that what we know about adamantium is just hyperboles because it has been stated to be unbreakable multiple time and primary adamantium on marvel wiki is stated to:

"it is completely indestructible to all forms of attack"

For some reason the image did not work the first time.

I want to see Dark hawk breaking it. Not the only time Hulk has ripped through adamantium either.

Originally posted by thingy150
Does everybody f*cking hate each other on this site? From what i have seen only a few people who are fanboys of the same character seem to put up with each other, the rest of your relationships are just volatile.

Because we're mostly unbiased here, and call each other out if we see errors. This isn't Facebook.

I'd like to see the Ultron scan because I'm drawing a blank on the Darkhawk fight.

Also unless stated the majority of Ultron bodies aren't Adamantium, not to mention primary Adamantium.

His entire body is usually covered in adamantium. Also, you have it backwards, unless stated otherwise, it 'primary' adamantium.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
I'd like to see the Ultron scan because I'm drawing a blank on the Darkhawk fight.

Also unless stated the majority of Ultron bodies aren't Adamantium, not to mention primary Adamantium.

It was in Runaways, when Darkhawk first resurfaced.

And I agree, just following Carver's ridiculous line of logic here.

Originally posted by krisblaze
On KMC the Hulk starts off wherever.

He generally starts off at a point he's reached 2-3 times in 40-50 years, and then still grows stronger!
Qft kris, if anyone can prove a character with dynamic powers has a "base" strength, I'll concede.

Originally posted by carver9
Did you read the comic? Asking for a reason.

I read and Hulk was not weakened against Sun god.

Originally posted by carver9
Kris is the biggest Hulk hater on KMC, next to Thingy. Wouldn't take him serious at all. I would love to see some proof of current Hulks 'base strength'. We have a lot of assumptions here, I know someone have some scans.
Carver, why don't you understand. Thingy doesn't hate Hulk, he hates you. Passiantely. Lots and lots of passion. The apparent Hulk hate is is simply his miserable attempts to get to you which almost always fail.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
I read and Hulk was not weakened against Sun god.
Keep hoping

What does PIS mean? Anyway every time the Juggernaut is removed from battlefield or loses most of the time it is poor writing. If he kept his force field up then most of the characters he fights against couldn't touch him.

PIS- Plot Induced Stupidity