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1. Superman has MMs power set, not his own. Only experience he has is (besides using his own all his life) what he knows from fighting beside MM and fighting foes with like powers.

2. Martian Manhunter has Supes' power set, not his own. Only experience he has is (besides using his own all his life) what he knows from fighting beside Supes and fighting foes with like powers.

Pre DCnu versions. No prep. No BFR. Midtown Manhattan. Start distance 1 city block.

EDIT
In the above scenarios, they are in equal bodies. Supes has MM powers. So does MM.

MM with Supes powers. So does Supes.

Superman loses this, MAssive weakness with HV, but also, that lack of control with telepathy is liability.

But MM body dont have weakeness to the HV. It is a psicologic fear, dont ?

Also, MM alredy used intangibility against Prime HV.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
But MM body dont have weakeness to the HV. It is a psicologic fear, dont ?

Also, MM alredy used intangibility against Prime HV.

Meh, they SAID it was psychological, but we sawit affecting him later on as well.

MM used intangibility, sure. Would Clark have the experience for using it?

Although, I see there is an edit. Does this mean they BOTH have a weakness to fire/Kryptonite?

Yeah, same powers, same weaknesses, individual experience only.

Hmm. Well, MM should have an easier time of it - Superman's powerset isn't that different from his, only in scale.

Superman now has to learn how to control new powers such as intangibility, maintaining his form, telepathy etc.

The intangibility shouldn't be too hard - after all, when he was Electric Blue Superman, he had some measure of experience with it.

However, I also remember how long it took for him to get used to his new powers. So he isn't THAT quick a study.That telepathy is going to be a huge liability, IMHO, when he starts getting overloaded. So MM would win this.

Neat.
Hadnt thought of a few of those factors at all.

ON THE OTHER HAND.....

Martian knowledge is genetic. MM has the combined knowledge of his entire culture in his DNA, which includes telepathic warfare tactics (amongst other things).

Ergo, if they are in equal bodies, Superman should have the knowledge within him. It'll be close, and I still give it to MM, but its dependent on how quickly Superman can access the knowledge etc.

MY BOY MARTIAN MANHUNTER HAS THE ROUND WHERE THEY HAVE THE SAME POWERS.


When they both share clarks powers i think that clark has some pretty good martial arts techniques including being taught by batman and knowing forms of kryptonian martial arts.

MMH wins round 1, superman wins round 2.

Originally posted by thingy150
MY BOY MARTIAN MANHUNTER HAS ROUND 1


When they both share clarks powers i think that clark has some pretty good martial arts techniques including being taught by batman and knowing forms of kryptonian martial arts.

MMH wins round 1, superman wins round 2.

How we can know how hard is to control MM powers ?

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
How we can know how hard is to control MM powers ?

Did ms martian struggle with her powers, i have not read much of anything with her but if she struggles to control her powers like she does in YJ then that is your answer.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
How we can know how hard is to control MM powers ?

Because MM needs focus and meditation and control with his TP. And the shapeshifting is dependent on studying their opponent and using TP.

IOW, his powers aren't instinctual. Hence why Plastic Man was so well suited against Fernus.

Now, if they aren't instinctual, does it mean that it's hard? No. To answer your question, 'how hard is it', I don't know. But I am using his experience when he got new powers as Electric Superman, as a yardstick to how he performs when he gets new powers.

Edit: found the scan I referred to:

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/2299/z20r.jpg
The Martian can't compete without full concentration

Nice.

Darksaint, nice breakdown.

Where did it show that martian memory is genetic??

Originally posted by beatboks
Darksaint, nice breakdown.

Where did it show that martian memory is genetic??

I will look out for it, don't have my scans atm. IIRC, it was in WW3 (the Morrison penned one) where J'onn teaches Batman how to fly the Martian ship in Limbo; also, the genetic memories unlocked which makes Fernus fear the GLs/Vandal SAvage.

He's also made reference to it on other occasions, but will try and dig those up.

There is also this reference, although it refers to telepathic downloading. Gets rid of the plot hole whereby the last surviving member of your race may be a drooling idiot.

http://static.comicvine.com/api/image/original/2652503-4.png

Martian Manhunter takes this

Superman, bit, stronger, bit faster, HV. But it will be close.

Martian Manhunter wins. Same stats but overall more powerful and versatile.

Originally posted by carver9
Martian Manhunter wins. Same stats but overall more powerful and versatile.

Are you serious? They have the same exact stats and abilities they are both just as powerful.

did you read the op, they each get each others powers.

Manhunter wins from experience when they both have manhunters powers but when they both have clarks powers it will come down to fighting ability and clark has some training from batman and also kryptonian martial arts.

My question is really, can Supes win while basically having his power set at a lessened degree plus unfamiliar powers, and can MM win while having basically having his power set to a greater degree minus a handful of powers....

The op is a bit confusing, is it two separate fights?

Yeah.

Supes with MM powers vs MM with his normal power set and the other way around.

Ah. I was confused.

Fight 1 (Supes with MM powers vs MM with his own powers): Supes loses.
Fight 2 (MM with Supes powers vs Supes): Supes wins.

I gotta ask, why and why?
I enjoy you're reasoning.

superman has merged minds with j'onn before. He knows how martian powers works.

Of course he does.
I know how a car works, doesnt mean i'm a race car driver.
Before you start ranting, the same goes for MM as relates to kryptonian powers he doesnt have.

Superman also has lived a whole life as a martian when he was subjected to a machine that showed how his life in alternate timelines. So no.

Right, so that counts why? How?

Or is the answer to both questions "so Superman can be a better martian than a martian."
Typical abhi hypocrisy. Hopefully someone will take your bait. I wont.

So nothing as usual? I said superman knows how to use martian powers not that he is better than j'onn at it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman also has lived a whole life as a martian when he was subjected to a machine that showed how his life in alternate timelines. So no. Lol for real?

Lol. Where were you, abhi, when people were claiming Black Adam//Orion were Superman's equal?

^haha

Originally posted by riv6672
I gotta ask, why and why?
I enjoy you're reasoning.

1. Supes loses for the reasons I talked about before.
2. Supes wins because cutting MM off from his other senses would be quite debilitating for him - like blinding Hawkeye but giving him super strength, if you will. He relies so much on his TP.

Plus, making him equal to Supes in speed/strength etc would only mean that Supes will have the advantage of his MA training to tip the odds.

I never understood why MA training is supposed to help Superman that much?

The martial arts we have now are mostly about utilizing weaknesses and strengths of the human body/centered around the way humans move. Beyond the fact that Superman looks like us none of this applies to him. I'm confident that whatever fighting-style Superman develops on his own, using his own abilities, would be infinitely better than whatever earthly style he adapts.

Well, Comics wise, we've all seen skilled combatants out perform stronger, super powered foes. Superman being a good fighter does count when pitted against someone physically equal/stronger.

Originally posted by krisblaze
I never understood why MA training is supposed to help Superman that much?

The martial arts we have now are mostly about utilizing weaknesses and strengths of the human body/centered around the way humans move. Beyond the fact that Superman looks like us none of this applies to him. I'm confident that whatever fighting-style Superman develops on his own, using his own abilities, would be infinitely better than whatever earthly style he adapts.

It helps when he is fighting someone who has the exact same physical characteristics as him. He's Kryptonian, yes, but his joints still seem to have the same range of motion as a human (so bend his elbow back a certain way, it will snap etc). Principles of force redirection and blocking would also still apply.

When the body has certain rules it MUST obey (punching with your fist is more effective than, say, using your butt to charge into someone, or an elbow/knee packs more force than a finger flick) than Earth based MAs would be helpful.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111119340/3930018-9952971329-16529.png

Originally posted by riv6672
Yeah.

Supes with MM powers vs MM with his normal power set and the other way around.


Thanks, that is what i thought.

(and that is why carver's comment was so dumb lol)

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol. Where were you, abhi, when people were claiming Black Adam//Orion were Superman's equal?


Orion has been stated to be supermans equal on panel and he knocked out a young superman, lol are you really that slow.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Lol for real? Yeah, for real.Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol. Where were you, abhi, when people were claiming Black Adam//Orion were Superman's equal? What?

Thingy was claiming Orion was the equal of Supes, and BA is above Supes....

No thats not true at all.

The statements, or my post?

Superman Bolo stomps him.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The statements, or my post?
Just half the statements, my bad i was multi tasking.
Orion is not Superman level, and thats just MO.

Originally posted by riv6672
Just half the statements, my bad i was multi tasking.
Orion is not Superman level, and thats just MO.

He has been stated to be superman level in case you were unaware.

I'm aware. I dont buy it.

Originally posted by riv6672
I'm aware. I dont buy it.

That's true. I believe that Darkseid referred to him as a peer to Superman, as well as himself. However was that the true Darkseid. I mean you know how enigmatic rock face can be right?

Sure we'll go with that.

Originally posted by riv6672
I'm aware. I dont buy it.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...an_vs_orion.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads..._vs_orion_2.jpg

Dont buy it all you want but it has been stated.

and orion 1 shotted a young superman.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/pic003.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/pic004.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/pic005.jpg

He fires at superman, superman dodges, orion tanks a shot and then one shots superman.

They are and have been shown to be on par with each other.

Your ignorance does not change this.

I would have gotten to you faster but i posted my last comment word for word in the wrong thread, lol

Originally posted by thingy150
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...an_vs_orion.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads..._vs_orion_2.jpg

Dont buy it all you want but it has been stated.

and orion 1 shotted a young superman.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/pic003.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/pic004.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/pic005.jpg

He fires at superman, superman dodges, orion tanks a shot and then one shots superman.

They are and have been shown to be on par with each other.

Your ignorance does not change this.

Haha

Wonderful.

Check it out, sport. The

In my post stands for My Opinion. I'm not asking you to share it, posting scans to make that opinion seem more official, or calling you ignorant because we have differing views.

If i called you ignorant there's a whole bunch of other reasons you provide every time you manage to figure out the log in process.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Thingy was claiming Orion was the equal of Supes, and BA is above Supes.... Oh. Can't have that now

Originally posted by riv6672
Haha

Wonderful.

Check it out, sport. The

In my post stands for My Opinion. I'm not asking you to share it, posting scans to make that opinion seem more official, or calling you ignorant because we have differing views.

If i called you ignorant there's a whole bunch of other reasons you provide every time you manage to figure out the log in process.


Your views that are backed up by literally nothing and conflict with canon things.....you have no basis for those views except for ignorance.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh. Can't have that now



I have shown orion is on that level and stated in my opinion with scans that black adam is on superman level also.

Originally posted by thingy150
I have shown orion is on that level and stated in my opinion with scans that black adam is on superman level also.
Orion has never been stated to be equal to Superman. He has stated that Kalibak is his equal and Superman has beat the shit out of Kalibak like a child.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_jkfw-09-10.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_jkfw-09-13.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_ActionComics814a.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_ActionComics814b.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_ActionComics814c.jpg

See the difference?

I can see that mods will have to start cracking down on people who can't stop baiting, trolling, bashing and derailing threads.