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This a debate for only me and sinious. Other people are welcome to comment but any arguments for the debate will be discarded

Well, this is pre-ritual Scourge as in the novel and his feats and accolades as the immortal Wrath will not be used.

In the Sith Empire, there were 2 main sith types a force user could chose to become. Scourge was the warrior type who relied more on his strength and melee combat skills. Even as an acolyte he was a fearsome warrior. Before he became a Sith Lord, Scourge spent years in hostile field, taking part in fighting and suppressing rebellions.

Unlike Yaru Korsin, he believed that his position in the Empire could only be secured by his combat skills and so in his entire career as a sith, he focused on improving his already deadly skills. Even though he wore a heavy armor which absorbed blaster fires and electrostaffs(to some extent), he was fast as a duelist and had complex reflexes that allowed him to duel at full capacity.

Despite being inexperienced in Sith politics, lacking influence and a proper network on Dromund Kaas, he has managed to survive the cunning intrigues of 2 dark council members with his intelligence and talent. He was also an expert interrogator who could break his prisoners through both physical pain and unlocking their minds. He could easily see through the deceptions of his opponents and trick them with his own deceitful plans.

He is a superior tank, he has more strength, he is more skilled in melee combat and has a wider knowledge of the force as he spent years under a dark council member's supervision and learned a lot about the force from Revan himself.

I believe that Lord Scourge is the superior combatant.

Good start

Yaru Korsin was a captain of a ship for Naga Sadow, but when his ship crashed, stranding him and his entire crew on a strange planet he quickly adapted and assumed the leader of Grand Lord of the Sith. While skilled in combat and the force, he was more of a grand manipulator.

As I just said Yaru Korsin is no stranger to manipulation and politics. Shortly after crashing on Kesh he gave all the Sith faulse hope of escape when he knew there was none in order to a) allow them to slowly come to the realization them self's instead of initial angery in fighting and b) to give an excuse to mine for resources. Later in his life he thwarted the plans of both his wife and close friend, who each lay plans to screw him over, in one move. He was the head of the new Sith government and was no stranger to politics and manipulation. Although, more relevant to this debate, this also spilled over into his fighting. When faced with a superior opponent he simply lead them into a trap. Yaru Korsin is very smart and Scourge will not out wit him.

Physical strength, I believe, will be one of the advantages Yaru has over Scourge as Yaru was able to shatter his captians chair with his hands. Also knowledge in the force is not an area where Yaru is lacking, as he has shown to have knowledge in Sith Magic. Using it in the healing arts. He also is extremely skilled in telepathy and telekinesis, showing great strength in both areas

Yaru is smart cunning powerful and skilled. Of he can't beat you out tight he will lead you into a trap. If that still doesn't work he operates under the mentality that "if I'm going to die, I'm taking you with me"

Great openin posts, and good luck to you both of my Droogies!

Scourge wins. He was compared to the strength of the Exile who soloed Malachor V. Good luck to both of you though!

@Emperordmb @DarthAnt

Thank you

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Good start







Perhaps not, but same can be said for both sides.



I don't think the chair feat puts him above Scourge. Scourge is a huge guy and has the advantage as a sith pureblood. His manhandling others with his bare hands suggest this as well. Scourge was a typical Sith Warrior who was made the Wrath of the Emperor for a reason. He was the opposite of the Emperor. He depended on brutal strength more than sorcery.

IIRC, Yaru never properly mastered force healing.

His TP won't work in this case as Revan thought Scourge how to defend against TP attacks. Revan prepared Scourge for Emperor Vitiate's TP attack so Yaru's telepathic offense would only exhaust Yaru himself absent results.

Scourge used TK against against an enemy(droids) that he underperforms with. Scourge has no great showings but his usage of it in his most desperate hour and his overall force powers prove that he won't get ragdolled by him.



Lord Scourge has faced a more experienced and cunning sith lord and he couldn't manage to deceive Scourge. Scourge has self-control and thinks before he acts as even Meetra Surik was surprised by his calmness. The entire novel focuses on Scourge's strategic way of thinking.

Originally posted by Sinious


Perhaps not, but same can be said for both sides. So it is the battle of the intellects


Yaru may not be physically imposing but his physical strength cannot be discounted. Scourge may appear bigger but that doesn't mean he is stronger as Yaru is also very physically strong.

Korsin spun and shattered his bridge chair against a marble column. He didn't use the Force. He didn't need to. Page 88 Lost tribe of the sith the collected stories.

That wasn't a wooden chair either, I believe it may have been metal.
He used it once and in the text of the book it seems like the person he was trying to heal was already dead.

A scaffold, hurriedly erected, had given way. Adari had failed that day, too, flying her broken child to the temple and Korsin's feet. Korsin had immediately come to Finn's side, working his Sith magic; for a moment, Adari found herself hoping that Korsin could actually return life to her son. But of course he couldn't

page 99

even if Finn was already dead, he was damn near it and not being able to save him shouldn't be discounted against his skill with the power.

Yaru has never used it offensively but his TP is more passive, he can read the minds of those around him and he will do so if Scourge lets his guard down, although I highly doubt Yaru's mind reading will come into play, or his TP ability to communicate with others across mountains.



Yaru does have some very impressive TK showings. One needs look no further than his battle with his brother Devore, who was hyped up on Force empowering drugs at the time. Korsin was able to mount a defense against a powerful attack but also throw Devore out a window.

Korsin walked into a hurricane. Devore stood atop the command chair, calling forth all the debris of the bridge like a deity on a mountaintop. Korsin rolled, fragments of transparasteel raking his face and ripping his uniform. Reaching Gloyd's station, he mounted his own defense, cocooning himself in the Force against the onslaught. Devore was as strong as any in his family- and now he was riding chemicals Korsin didn't understand.

A beam slapped against the bulkhead- and Omen shivered. A second strike, and the bridge tipped forward, knocking Devore off his perch. Korsin didn't let him get up again. The moment Devore's head appeared behind the chair, Korsin Force-flung him out through the ruined viewport.

page 25

like wise Yaru who was being plotted against on either side, was able to best everyone in the realm of manipulation. Scourge and Yaru are both smart. Both can see through deception. Call it a draw?

Nice arguments guys, good luck to you both

Bantha, pms.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
So it is the battle of the intellects


No but Yaru appears to be relying on his intelligence more than Scourge yet he wouldn't be able to gain any advantage as Scourge has proven himself in this area both in and out combat. This was my point.



Then I think we'd both agree that in pure strength, neither side can gain an advantage here?



Well if it had been a wooden chair, I would beat you with a wooden chair for mentioning this at all.



But isnt being able to heal mortal wounds a major thing in force healing? I mean healing lesser wounds don't even require sith magic in most cases. Besides, if Yaru doesn't have a feat where he heals himself in combat, this skill of his won't come in handy at all.



Exactly, his TP is even more irrelevant than his healing skills.



Impressive. However, as I've stated before, Scourge is a sith warrior who focuses on TK skills as his force powers instead of other sith force abilities like lightning. He hasn't shown very destructive levels of usage of TK but he has skill and training in that area and his constant usage of force grip/choke also fits the sith warrior description perfectly. Most importantly, his overall power in the force allows him to create a force aura strong enough to protect himself from getting rag dolled by Yaru.

Almost every other force user he encountered praised his potential and more importantly/relevantly in this case, his actualized power in the force:

"You are strong in the Force." - Darth Nyriss

"Revan had sensed the Force in him; he had incredible potential." - Revan

"He had been one of the top students, marked by his superiors for his strength in the Force and his fanatic devotion to the ways of the Sith."



Of course. The key point here is that Scourge is a beast who prefers direct confrontation in battles yet unlike other brute sith warriors, this aggressive style of his won't allow Yaru to trap him into a disadvantageous position. So how will Yaru keep up with Scourge once they face each other in melee combat?

Originally posted by Sinious
No but Yaru appears to be relying on his intelligence more than Scourge yet he wouldn't be able to gain any advantage as Scourge has proven himself in this area both in and out combat. This was my point. Still Yaru's tactical tendencies will give him a distinct advantage. Scourge will have to be on his toes the entire time


could you provide a quote that displays his strength?


a just judgment


his healing and TP most likely won't cone into play in this battle but still in none combative sense they are impressive



Again I would like to see an instance of him using TK.

Yaru is a very skilled lightsaber duelist. In his final battle he faced his Nephew who was a very skilled swordman and his nephew was aided by multiple other sith. Yet Yaru held out on his own for a substantial amount of time, even after sustaining fatal wounds he fought on.

And that brings up another point Yaru has a high pain threshold. He was able to take fatal wounds and still fight on, even after he realized that he would never recover from them. He simply powered through till the end

Originally posted by Sinious
He always is. Thats why Yaru's maneuvers won't work. perhaps. Although Scourge is the kind of duelist Yaru most easily manipulates. Yaru likes to assume a defensive role and give ground, leading the opponent onto a trap. Both instances of him doing this cost the opponent their lives, although neither opponent is as smart as Scourge so, idk tbh


hmmm I propose a draw. Scourge and Yaru seem to possess similar strength. Scourge won't be able to bully Yaru around and the same goes for the opposite.






Scourge seems very impressive but the edge will still goto Yaru. Rereading his encounter with Devote I realized that I misinterpreted the text. Devore was NOT amped during his fight with Yaru as I initially believed he was just high on spices, in fact Yaru's power with the Force would be increased latter on.

Yaru and the rest of the Sith would put Lignan crystals into their lightsabers, these crystals amping their power.

At the time that Devore and Yaru fought neither was amped but as the text states. "Devore was as strong as any in his family." Devore being Yaru's brother would mean that they posses similar strength in the Force, and as we have seen, Devore was capable of creating a powerful Force tornado that filled up the bridge of a ship and whipped up heavy beams and countless others debris into the storm. So Yaru possesed similar strength to that guy, before he put a Lignan crystal into his lightsaber.




Devore has no dueling feats or accolades but he was bloodlusted.

Jariad does have a dueling feat.

Whirling across the glossy floor, Jariad charged at the three attackers clad in Saber black.Their blades weren't tracing harmless circuits in the air this time. Jariad's assailants lunged at him, only to be driven back by his angery riposte.

One by one, Jariad bested his opponents-driving one underneath a falling statue, hurling another through a brand new pane of smoked glass. The third saw his lightsaber skitter down a hall way when Jariad separated his gloved hand from his wrist.

Page 104

Jariad was also aided by an unknown number of lesser Sith who were among the same group as the three Sith that Jariad beat in the for mentioned quote

Originally posted by WildBantha88
perhaps. Although Scourge is the kind of duelist Yaru most easily manipulates. Yaru likes to assume a defensive role and give ground, leading the opponent onto a trap. Both instances of him doing this cost the opponent their lives, although neither opponent is as smart as Scourge so, idk tbh

But that was my point exactly. Despite having the style of a reckless brute, Scourge has always been very careful and calm and he has managed to see through the deceptions of his enemies. This is a 1on1 fight in a plain field right? So only Yaru's powers combat skills can save him anyway.



TBH, I didnt think of the imperial guard feat when I proposed a draw. I've changed my mind back to believing that Scourge has the upper hand here. He wasn't in a 1on1 duel with the guard. The Captain of the Imperial Guard was assisting the other guard and it was 2on1 yet Scourge managed to show the strength to overwhelm him.

Scourge's strength feats are more combat related and more consistent. I'm not saying he can overwhelm Yaru as easily as he overwhelmed the guard but Yaru will have to give a lot of effort and energy to keep up with Scourge. It will be really hard for him to show any offensive action against Scourge.



I won't deny Yaru's superiority here. However, TK prowess doesn't mean much unless the applicant of TK is vastly more powerful than his/her opponent or has exceptionally good skills with the ability while the opponent lacks skill in this area.

Like I said, Scourge does not reach extremely destructive levels of TK but his skill with it and overall power in the force will allow him to guard himself from Yaru's TK attacks without much trouble. Scourge might even sucker punch him with TK in offense as it is something he has done more than once in the novel.



Would you say that Jariad is a better duelist than Yaru?



Yaru was also protected by an unknown number of bodyguards wasn't he? They were outnumbered but Yaru wasn't alone IIRC.

Originally posted by Sinious
But that was my point exactly. Despite having the style of a reckless brute, Scourge has always been very careful and calm and he has managed to see through the deceptions of his enemies. This is a 1on1 fight in a plain field right? So only Yaru's powers combat skills can save him anyway.
I concede. Neither should outsmart the other.

honesty I'm not sure what is so impressive about these guards. IMO crunching a guys chest under his foot is one of his top strength feats. And Scourge is probably stronger than Yaru, but the difference is minimal and hardly matters.


being the equel to someone who can something like Devotes bridge feat before a power increase does put Yaru above Scourge telekineticly and I won't deny Scourge is pretty damn powerful himself. But Yaru has displayed the same amount of control as Scourge. He has displayed Force grips, pushes, and chokes, the later he was able to do while appearing shocked at what has happening, obviously no hand gesters involved.

Yaru displays similar skill just more power behind it.


Equals IMO.
Also Yaru had four body guards, that attackers out numbered the 4-1 meaning there were twenty Sith. The number that died before it was just Yaru is in specified but the book said that his guards "fought valiantly" and Yaru's captain suiside bombed a bunch. The number of remaining Sith is anyone's guess

The guard have a ton of accolades other than that Bantha. Do you want me to PM them to you?

Are there any good ones in the Encyclopedia?

I think I know how this will play out.

Little detail is given about Yaru's fighting style or his fights but in both of his fights Yaru has assumed a defensive role. Soresu comes to mind as a logical choice for his fighting style but I believe it may be either Shi cho or Djem so. Yaru is capable of assuming the offensive as he lead an assault on a organization of Sith traitors. He goes on the defensive when faced with superior duelist, Devore who was going ballistic on him and Jariad who had back up.

Admittedly, Yaru will be on the defensive on this fight as well as Scourge is a better trained and more seasoned warrior than either Devore or Jariad. The Sith that Jariad fought were poorly trained and the Sith that supported him in the Fight against Yaru were the same ones. Yaru was old at the time and past his prime but he still retained a good amount of ability.

What will happen is Yaru will go on the defensive knowing that he can't beat Scourge out right. He will deliberately give ground, attempting to lead Scourge into a trap, Scourge will see through this and not allow this to happen. Yaru, with no other options will resort to holding him off as long as possible but Scourge will break through his defenses and injure Yaru but Yaru will be able to take the pain and carry on for a while longer. Yaru, realizing that he is a bout to die will use the Force in a last ditch effort to kill Scourge. Scourge will be effected by the TK attack but the attack will do little more than buy Yaru a few more seconds and with no more options Yaru will die.

I concede, Yaru is not skilled enough to compete with Scourge and he isn't so much more powerful in the Force to make up for this. Yaru puts up a good fight but he can't win

Scourge fought faster than factory droids could react and soundly defeated the head captain of the ultimate non-force sensitive warriors in the Empire and her companion. Oh yeah, he also tanked an uber-prepped FLS, was an expert of Juyo, Soresu, and Ataru, (or was it Djem So?) and was considered an equal of Meetra Surik. Go Scourge!

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Scourge fought faster than factory droids could react and soundly defeated the head captain of the ultimate non-force sensitive warriors in the Empire and her companion.

Yeah, he has a lot more speed feats.



Juyo, Soresu and Ataru but it isnt stated how well he mastered Ataru and Soresu forms. How do you know he mastered all 3?

Originally posted by WildBantha88
I think I know how this will play out.

Little detail is given about Yaru's fighting style or his fights but in both of his fights Yaru has assumed a defensive role. Soresu comes to mind as a logical choice for his fighting style but I believe it may be either Shi cho or Djem so. Yaru is capable of assuming the offensive as he lead an assault on a organization of Sith traitors. He goes on the defensive when faced with superior duelist, Devore who was going ballistic on him and Jariad who had back up.

Admittedly, Yaru will be on the defensive on this fight as well as Scourge is a better trained and more seasoned warrior than either Devore or Jariad. The Sith that Jariad fought were poorly trained and the Sith that supported him in the Fight against Yaru were the same ones. Yaru was old at the time and past his prime but he still retained a good amount of ability.

What will happen is Yaru will go on the defensive knowing that he can't beat Scourge out right. He will deliberately give ground, attempting to lead Scourge into a trap, Scourge will see through this and not allow this to happen. Yaru, with no other options will resort to holding him off as long as possible but Scourge will break through his defenses and injure Yaru but Yaru will be able to take the pain and carry on for a while longer. Yaru, realizing that he is a bout to die will use the Force in a last ditch effort to kill Scourge. Scourge will be effected by the TK attack but the attack will do little more than buy Yaru a few more seconds and with no more options Yaru will die.

I concede, Yaru is not skilled enough to compete with Scourge and he isn't so much more powerful in the Force to make up for this. Yaru puts up a good fight but he can't win

Very well buddy.

Pretty much same with how I pictured it.