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All out

Probably Team 1 in a close fight.

Yeah, team 1.

Team 1.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Probably Team 1 in a close fight.

Do you think team 2 has a decent chance?

I would think team one wins a solid majority but a well contested fight each time, to be sure.

Does Wrath II have a respect thread or a thread with a lot of his feats posted?

Originally posted by Sinious
Do you think team 2 has a decent chance?

They have a fair enough chance, yeah. Maul could probably take either of them, and Savage is weaker than both--but still solid.

Originally posted by ILS
Does Wrath II have a respect thread or a thread with a lot of his feats posted?

Here.

If you want I could go over some of them for added context and perspective.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Here.

If you want I could go over some of them for added context and perspective. Thanks.

Would you say Wrath's cap on dueling ability would be Satele's level or somewhat better?

And what would you say his strongest, confirmed, Force feat/accolade is?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
They have a fair enough chance, yeah. Maul could probably take either of them, and Savage is weaker than both--but still solid.

Wrath vs Maul is one fight I can't pick a side tbh.

Originally posted by ILS

And what would you say his strongest, confirmed, Force feat/accolade is?

Defeating Sel Makor and Baras.

EDIT: Nvm, didnt notice the "force" there

His best Force Feat is pulling down a giant slab of metal, kinda like Obi-Wan did in the RotS video game. He also has some pretty exceptional showings with lightsaber throw, and chokes some mooks. That's about it, though, nothing too exceptional there.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
His best Force Feat is pulling down a giant slab of metal, kinda like Obi-Wan did in the RotS video game. He also has some pretty exceptional showings with lightsaber throw, and chokes some mooks. That's about it, though, nothing too exceptional there. If that's the case then I'm going with Team 2.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Probably Team 1 in a close fight.

Originally posted by ILS
Thanks.

Would you say Wrath's cap on dueling ability would be Satele's level or somewhat better?

And what would you say his strongest, confirmed, Force feat/accolade is?

Better, definitely. At one point he defeats the Jedi's top lightsaber instructor and the best duelist the man had ever taught at the same time. And the instructor was very powerful too. When he was still an acolyte, he defeated Marka Ragnos' "pet" Terentatek and one of the greatest Sith Overseers ever, shortly after arriving for training. He also defeated one of the best Sith Assassins to ever live (who was said to be as great a weapon as any the Empire ever possessed) and several Dark Council members and Dark Council level beings.

Like the HoT, the Wrath's focus is on lightsaber combat and defense. He's defeated beings far more powerful than Maul and Savage though.

Originally posted by Nephthys


Like the HoT, the Wrath's focus is on lightsaber combat and defense. He's defeated beings far more powerful than Maul and Savage though.

That terentatek was a Plagueis-level nexus of dark side energy.

Originally posted by Sinious
Originally posted by Sinious
All out lol

Dude, if Sel Makor couldn't beat the Wrath with the Force, neither will Savage and Maul. The Wrath could also resist the Dread Master's mental assualt. The guys who telepathically destroy fleets.

?

Not sure what you're loling at but he has defeated beings far more powerful in all out fights.

I didn't imply as such. I just find it kind of funny that Sinious made a thread featuring two characters who he believes to be outclassed.

I never said Wrath outclasses Maul.

I made this thread cause I saw some posters believing quite the opposite.

Yeah, he just said that the Wrath is far more powerful. Immensely different, ILS, you should know better.

If Wrath can beat people who are far more powerful than Maul, he should be able to beat Maul pretty soundly. Unless I'm missing some specifics in that analysis which could deter from that line of logic.

I mean, if I made a dueling only thread between Maul and some sap tier 4 duelist from SWTOR the pitch forks would come flying.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yeah, he just said that the Wrath is far more powerful. Immensely different, ILS, you should know better. Not really lol. If the gap in Force power or whatever is as large as it's being made out to be in this thread then it's a foregone conclusion that Maul would lose.

Originally posted by ILS
Not really lol. If the gap in Force power or whatever is as large as it's being made out to be in this thread then it's a foregone conclusion that Maul would lose.

I was joking. And no, Maul's force feats are a lot better than the Wrath's.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I was joking. And no, Maul's force feats are a lot better than the Wrath's. My bad, I am absolutely awful at picking up text-sarcasm.

We were talking about power in the force.

Maul is an excellent duelist who can be a tough challenge for either member of team 1 and Wrath didnt defeat his enemies via force powers so it only proves that he is powerful enough to survive beings like Sel Makor. Its not like he can ragdoll Maul.

So I guess Maul would beat Wrath in a duel while Savage beats Satele?

The argument isn't that the wrath's direct force feats are better, it's that some of the opponents he has defeated are far more powerful than Maul.

Originally posted by ILS
So I guess Maul would beat Wrath in a duel while Savage beats Satele?

Savage isnt beating Satele.

Team 2 every time.

Savage is too powerful for Satele to do anything with TK, and Wrath has only beaten featless mooks and Baras

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Sinious
Savage isnt beating Satele. Check your bias at the door if you want to debate with me, broski.
Originally posted by carthage
Team 2 every time.

Savage is too powerful for Satele to do anything with TK, and Wrath has only beaten featless mooks and Baras I was eagerly awaiting your arrival to this thread, man.

NVM.

Satele struggled with featless Mekhis and got stomped by pre-prime Malgus. She isn't beating Savage by virtue of her skill, and his force feats are comparable to her so she gets no advantage in TK.

Maul would also beat Wrath with at best mid difficulty

Originally posted by carthage
Satele struggled with featless Mekhis and got stomped by pre-prime Malgus. She isn't beating Savage by virtue of her skill, and his force feats are comparable to her so she gets no advantage in TK.

Maul would also beat Wrath with at best mid difficulty Seems like Sinious was just looking to play devil's advocate.

Originally posted by ILS
If Wrath can beat people who are far more powerful than Maul, he should be able to beat Maul pretty soundly. Unless I'm missing some specifics in that analysis which could deter from that line of logic.

There's some mitigation. Sel Makor probably wasn't that stellar a fighter since it was an incorporeal being until it possesses the Emperor's Voice. And even though Vitiate had lowered his defenses to allow that, he may have hindered Sel Makor from within. But Sel Makor was still basically Vitiate-level powerful and was literally creating monsters out of thin air to help him fight the Wrath.

The Wrath can also defeat an immensely powerful Jedi Master who basically achieved enlightenment after 15 years of meditation and was literally classified as a superweapon. And Baras who was said to be nigh indestructible and had his power enhanced by Sel Makor.

The Wrath is really great, and should get more respect around here imo. He;s easily a good match for Maul.

All vague nonsense and unquantifiable descriptions relating to Sel Makor's power, and none of which speak to his skill as a duelist. Baras has beaten Angral with the force, and stalemated pre-prime Satele Shan. None of that compares to Savage defeating Plo Koon and fighting evenly with Asajj Ventress, Satele likewise has only beaten featless opponents and lost to pre-prime Malgus twice.

Originally posted by carthage
All vague nonsense and unquantifiable descriptions SWTOR in a nutshell tbh

Originally posted by carthage
All vague nonsense and unquantifiable descriptions relating to Sel Makor's power, and none of which speak to his skill as a duelist.

Sel Makor isn't a "duelist", it's a godlike being formed from the darkside of two entire races capable of planetary and possibly galaxy wide destruction, forming beings from pure dark energy and is such an immensely corrupt and dark being that even the area surrounding its lair turns all but the very strongest Jedi and Sith irreparably insane.

lol

Originally posted by Nephthys
All vague nonsense and unquantifiable descriptions

godlike entities tbh

Its a godlike entity that is formed of pure darkside energy that is immensely corrupt

capable of planetary and possibly galaxy wide destruction tbh

Reported for trolling tbh

Originally posted by Nephthys
Reported for trolling tbh but like tbh i'm just playin

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Wrath can also defeat an immensely powerful Jedi Master who basically achieved enlightenment after 15 years of meditation and was literally classified as a superweapon. And Baras who was said to be nigh indestructible and had his power enhanced by Sel Makor.

It never stops to amaze me how TOR writes come up with more epic nonsense like this.

They think hyping up featless characters with 00ber mystical descriptive powers makes up for the fact they're not particularly interesting or skilled

Originally posted by Arhael
It never stops to amaze me how TOR writes come up with more epic nonsense like this.

Oh really? Then you should know that the Wrath also defeats a super wardroid literally powered by the ashes of the people killed when Malak bombarded Taris, which is apparently a source of power 10x greater than normal.

Totally. Happened.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh really? Then you should know that the Wrath also defeats a super wardroid literally powered by the ashes of the people killed when Malak bombarded Taris, which is apparently a source of power 10x greater than normal.

Totally. Happened.
http://galeri7.uludagsozluk.com/218/i-m-out_301876.jpg

Originally posted by ILS
Check your bias at the door if you want to debate with me, broski.


lol



You sound just as immature as Carthage in this thread btw.

Lowball Wrath all you want. Defeating Sel Makor is greater than anything Maul has ever done.

Cool story bro, Makor is utterly featless and has nothing but vague accolades and completely unintelligible descriptions of "power". This like most of the terrible characters in TOR

Yeah with that logic Ahsoka Tano stomps the likes of Marka Ragnos which is why your logic sucks.

Ragnos is utterly featless, and is vague accolades like Sel Makor. Just because they have 00ber dark and vague descriptions like "Supremely powerful" or "nigh invincible" doesn't make them superior to characters you don't like

And yes Tano would stomp Ragnos.

Totally makes sense brobeans.

What makes sense is this completely accurate description of being a godlike being capable of planetary destruction and being immensely corrupt has anything to do with combat skill or combative application of the force

XD WTF???? Satele and warth II !!!!
Savage is peharps a pure beast of strengh and resistance but against really well train force user he is a noob.

Ragnos lack of skill in sword fight...

Originally posted by Sinious
lol



You sound just as immature as Carthage in this thread btw.

Lowball Wrath all you want. Defeating Sel Makor is greater than anything Maul has ever done. I mean, without mincing my words, you're the one who made a thread just so you could say that two TOR characters you like to fanboy over win against movie-era characters. So like, it's sort of, you, who's being immature... tbh

Originally posted by Sinious
lol



You sound just as immature as Carthage in this thread btw.

Lowball Wrath all you want. Defeating Sel Makor is greater than anything Maul has ever done.
The irony...

Originally posted by ILS
I mean, without mincing my words, you're the one who made a thread just so you could say that two TOR characters you like to fanboy over win against movie-era characters. So like, it's sort of, you, who's being immature... tbh

%90 of the time you make a thread, you already have an opinion on how it will go down.

Like I said, I've seen several posts believing in favor of team 2 and so I've made a thread where arguments can be made.

If you're looking for spite threads you should check Carthage's department of trolling.

Originally posted by Sinious
%90 of the time you make a thread, you already have an opinion on how it will go down.

Like I said, I've seen several posts believing in favor of team 2 and so I've made a thread where arguments can be made.

If you're looking for spite threads you should check Carthage's department of trolling. IG-88 vs Jango Fett, Cay Qel-Droma vs Anoon Bondara, Exar/Ulic vs Dooku/Ventress, Bane vs Shaak, Malgus vs Ulic, Ommin vs Strike team, Vodo vs Qui-Gon, Ulic/Cay vs Ven/Kao, Ulic vs Kyle Katarn, Sora Bulq vs Plo Koon. Those are threads I've made from the past three pages alone. Nice theory broseph.

Nah but you clearly think and want Wrath to beat Maul and you've only supported arguments for Wrath and Satele and in general just wank SWTOR characters so nah tbh.

Yhea but holding ventrezz waz juzt a miracle.

O.K I admit hiz duelling capacitiez are increazed whe he iz with hiz bro...



XD ToR character V.Z moovie character XDXDXD Execpt Yoda zidiouz or Mace.... ToR over kill mooviez characterz !!!!


It'z the emperor wrath II XD !!!! It'z above darth council level XDXDXDXDXDXDXD.

And dezpite the apparenze Zatele zhan iz not the grand mazter for nothing....

It'z a mixt between anakin zkywalker Yoda and maul and baztilia.

Maul light zaber fighting ztyle in lezz agrezziv, ztrengh zpeed and dexerterity boozt az yoda but zhe boozt the ztrengh more than the zpeed etc...

And a luke zkywalker becauz zhe have amazing force power but train herzelf more in light zaber combat (but zhe iz really well train in force combat that'z the difference with anakin...) puzhed to her limit... Eeeeeerrrr O.P !!!!

Remember when malguz cut her light zaber zhe hold the light zaber of malguz with her tutaminiz (O.P zkill) O.K her friend came to "zave her" and zhe unleah her force power wich completly reap malguz azz !!!!!!!!!!!!

It take no time for her to kick hiz azz !!! You need to quicly kill her in light zaber combat if you don't want to face her uzing her force abilitiez...

Originally posted by ILS
IG-88 vs Jango Fett, Cay Qel-Droma vs Anoon Bondara, Exar/Ulic vs Dooku/Ventress, Bane vs Shaak, Malgus vs Ulic, Ommin vs Strike team, Vodo vs Qui-Gon, Ulic/Cay vs Ven/Kao, Ulic vs Kyle Katarn, Sora Bulq vs Plo Koon. Those are threads I've made from the past three pages alone. Nice theory broseph.

Nah but you clearly think and want Wrath to beat Maul and you've only supported arguments for Wrath and Satele and in general just wank SWTOR characters so nah tbh.

I'm sorry have you proven something with this?

Pumpkin, if you have a problem with my point of view or get annoyed by my threads/posts, ignore them. If you think I'll try to justify myself to you, think again.


Honestly, the lack of SW in this thread disturbs me.

Making a thread where you deliberately support TOR characters to spite dos 3vil PT characters >> being immature

Originally posted by Sinious
I'm sorry have you proven something with this?

Pumpkin, if you have a problem with my point of view or get annoyed by my threads/posts, ignore them. If you think I'll try to justify myself to you, think again.


Honestly, the lack of SW in this thread disturbs me. Proven that I don't have a clear winner in mind when I create 90% of my threads. Some of those threads feature characters I don't even care about that much on both sides.

Annoyed? Rofl, I'm just pointing out how ridiculous you're being in this thread. And it's not that you won't justify yourself to me - it's that you can't. I justified myself to you when you accused me of attempting to make spite threads, but you can't do the same here. Essentially:
Originally posted by carthage
Making a thread where you deliberately support TOR characters to spite dos 3vil PT characters >> being immature

Originally posted by ILS
Proven that I don't have a clear winner in mind when I create 90% of my threads. Some of those threads feature characters I don't even care about that much on both sides.

Annoyed? Rofl, I'm just pointing out how ridiculous you're being in this thread. And it's not that you won't justify yourself to me - it's that you can't. I justified myself to you when you accused me of attempting to make spite threads, but you can't do the same here. Essentially:

Oh I meant that in general. Its rare not having a clue about who would win as the thread maker. I wasn't accusing you, my bad.

I think team 1 wins mostly cause I don't think Savage can keep up with these guys and I was expecting some arguments instead of this crap you've displayed.

Originally posted by Sinious
Honestly, the lack of SW in this thread disturbs me.

With such illuminating posts as these, please explain to me the lack of SW in this thread/discussion about a fight

Originally posted by Sinious
?

Not sure what you're loling at but he has defeated beings far more powerful in all out fights.

Originally posted by Sinious
lol



Defeating Sel Makor is greater than anything Maul has ever done.

Originally posted by Sinious
Oh I meant that in general. Its rare not having a clue about who would win as the thread maker. I wasn't accusing you, my bad.

I think team 1 wins mostly cause I don't think Savage can keep up with these guys and I was expecting some arguments instead of this crap you've displayed.


Savage is good enough to keep up with some of the top duelists of his order, and usually ends up overpowering them with his physical strength or the force. Just by getting angry, which happens pretty easily, Savage can tag, throw around, and sometimes even outright overpower numerous powerful force users at once. The raw power at his disposal is ridiculous. There is a reason Dooku felt that his increasing power was a threat, and was uneasy about Savage running free around the galaxy.

If you don't think Wrath has the power to overpower Maul, then how you expect him to win? For most of his achievements, we are lack the circumstances to place him on Maul's level. His best force feats, with respect to TK, have been replicated by opponents whom Maul has consistently overpowered. What feats does he have to suggest he approaches Maul as a duelist?

Basically, Wrath is an implied powerhouse, which I won't argue against. However, both Maul and Savage have solid accolades backed with feats to place them pretty high among the majority within the SW mythos.

Over powering'em lack of finezz.... He juzt improvize the combot.... Againzt agile opponen zatele who faced malguz..... EEeeeeeeeeeerrrr....
Zavage telekineziz zource on hiz rage it'z juzt an impulzion...

Wrath Kill Baraz....

Originally posted by carthage
With such illuminating posts as these, please explain to me the lack of SW in this thread/discussion about a fight

You don't agree with those posts?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Savage is good enough to keep up with some of the top duelists of his order, and usually ends up overpowering them with his physical strength or the force. Just by getting angry, which happens pretty easily, Savage can tag, throw around, and sometimes even outright overpower numerous powerful force users at once. The raw power at his disposal is ridiculous. There is a reason Dooku felt that his increasing power was a threat, and was uneasy about Savage running free around the galaxy.


And do you think he can defeat the Grand Master of the Order of SWTOR era? I mean, we lack proper info on Satele's prime but her performance in "Hope" clarifies why she became a Grand Master in the first place.
She has some pretty decent strength and speed feats in Fatal Alliance as well.



Idk if he can overpower Maul or not. Who do you mean by "opponents whom Maul has consistently overpowered?

Like HoT, Wrath's accomplishments are a bit vague compared to the other 2 protags though they are considered to be more powerful than the other 2 protagonists. Wrath's victory against Baras is also a very impressive one considering the accolades Darth Baras has.

You can check his victories here. Darth Baras and Sel Makor are the 2 major ones but he has defeated many other challenging opponents.




Fair enough. Do you think Savage>Wrath though?

avage>Wrath??????????? Haaaaaahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaa

Originally posted by Sinious
And do you think he can defeat the Grand Master of the Order of SWTOR era? I mean, we lack proper info on Satele's prime but her performance in "Hope" clarifies why she became a Grand Master in the first place. I think people, in general, need to get over what they think should be the status quo, and try and realize what is the case in reality. Like, in debates, people put far too much stock into things like a characters' rank or level authority within an organization, or their significance in the grand scheme of things in SW, and let that dictate who they want to win a fight rather than clear cut evidence.

Example? Satele Shan, Grandmaster of the Jedi Order, legendary Jedi Master and war veteran, versus... Savage Opress, dark side monster who died after like 2 months of not doing much.

Who wins? Well..... one may first assume that because Satele overall is just a much more significant character it would look silly for Savage to be beating her, and that would sway their decision. The preconceived notion that some stupid monster from the evil PT era cannot beat one of the main characters from SWTOR who also happens to be da grandmastur. But then when you compare their feats, it's pretty clear who is superior and who should win the fight based on real evidence.

It's the same reason people convince themselves that Darth Vader must be light years ahead of Darth Maul and Ventress as a duelist, or why people think Agen Kolar would struggle to get himself out of a paper bag. Because overall these characters are less significant, therefore they can't possibly be as good as *insert significant character here*

Fact is, you don't need to be important or whatever to have good feats. You just need to have good feats, which Savage does.

That wasn't really directed at you btw, Sinious, but just in general I feel like people jump the gun with characters and assume they're shit because they aren't as significant to whatever stories they feature in. It's why people still have a hard time believing Luke Skywalker could match Vader.

Originally posted by ILS
I think people, in general, need to get over what they think should be the status quo, and try and realize what is the case in reality. Like, in debates, people put far too much stock into things like a characters' rank or level authority within an organization, or their significance in the grand scheme of things in SW, and let that dictate who they want to win a fight rather than clear cut evidence.

Example? Satele Shan, Grandmaster of the Jedi Order, legendary Jedi Master and war veteran, versus... Savage Opress, dark side monster who died after like 2 months of not doing much.

Who wins? Well..... one may first assume that because Satele overall is just a much more significant character it would look silly for Savage to be beating her, and that would sway their decision. The preconceived notion that some stupid monster from the evil PT era cannot beat one of the main characters from SWTOR who also happens to be da grandmastur. But then when you compare their feats, it's pretty clear who is superior and who should win the fight based on real evidence.

It's the same reason people convince themselves that Darth Vader must be light years ahead of Darth Maul and Ventress as a duelist, or why people think Agen Kolar would struggle to get himself out of a paper bag. Because overall these characters are less significant, therefore they can't possibly be as good as *insert significant character here*

Fact is, you don't need to be important or whatever to have good feats. You just need to have good feats, which Savage does.

That wasn't really directed at you btw, Sinious, but just in general I feel like people jump the gun with characters and assume they're shit because they aren't as significant to whatever stories they feature in. It's why people still have a hard time believing Luke Skywalker could match Vader.

You are not wrong but I have to point out one thing. There are indeed certain ranks/positions that imply power and mastery over the force. Savage's importance in the galactic timeline doesn't matter at all. However, the time he spent time mastering the force, his sources of knowledge(sorcery, training with a master etc) and his focus matters. There is a difference between a descendant of Revan who is surrounded by thousands of jedi, gets raised by proper masters and becomes the freaking Grand Master of the Order in a very competitive era and someone who has little mastery and knowledge over the force.

More importantly, movies related characters will always have more feats because they get to appear in a lot of material unlike characters from other eras. We're not trying to solve issues like global warming here. Its not a bad thing to use your learned opinions in arguments especially since SW is a universe with multiple sources/writers and has different realities in different eras. I mean otherwise Ahsoka>Ragnos would actually be the case which is something you disagree with right?

Originally posted by Sinious
You are not wrong but I have to point out one thing. There are indeed certain ranks/positions that imply power and mastery over the force. Savage's importance in the galactic timeline doesn't matter at all. However, the time he spent time mastering the force, his sources of knowledge(sorcery, training with a master etc) and his focus matters. There is a difference between a descendant of Revan who is surrounded by thousands of jedi, gets raised by proper masters and becomes the freaking Grand Master of the Order in a very competitive era and someone who has little mastery and knowledge over the force.

More importantly, movies related characters will always have more feats because they get to appear in a lot of material unlike characters from other eras. We're not trying to solve issues like global warming here. Its not a bad thing to use your learned opinions in arguments especially since SW is a universe with multiple sources/writers and has different realities in different eras. I mean otherwise Ahsoka>Ragnos would actually be the case which is something you disagree with right? The problem is, unless Satele has actually been given some real, quantifiable praise that would factually put her ahead of Savage, then she can still be put below him if her feats are inferior. Hype means nothing if it doesn't yield results, and often times this is the case in SWTOR. And I mean yeah, Satele is more skilled at using the Force (which we found out from feats opposed to vague accolades and praise), but then Savage is more powerful.

Not always. Savage doesn't have a massive stockpile of feats. But that's besides the point. Even if movie characters sometimes do have more feats (which doesn't even necessarily mean better feats), that's no reason to begin resenting them and drawing your own conclusions based on conjecture. Just concede that the movie character wins and move on.

Probably. Ragnos' power level is pretty vague as far as I can tell. And I don't have double standards when it comes to characters with little to no feats. Like I said, just because someone is perceived to be a much more important and powerful character doesn't necessarily mean they are going to win the fight. Having said that, the notion of Ragnos being inferior to Ahsoka does sound pretty silly, but then I think Ragnos was always intended to be a vaguely powerful character, which means he isn't too well suited to a versus board.