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All combatants are in their respective primes.

Lightsabers
Force powers
All out.

Who wins?

Force V.Z light zaber... Zcourge iz more cool minded zo vaapad iz lezz effectiv againzt him... Where nyrizz iz more agrezziv...

Team 2

Team 1

Mace Windu might be capable of tackling anybody in this contest but two Sith heavyweights will be too much for him. Vos isn't much of an help, he is heavily outgunned.

Vos is seriously outgunned.

Holy shit Vos against two TOR character of course he's outgunned what is this Fated?!

Originally posted by ILS
Holy shit Vos against two TOR character of course he's outgunned what is this Fated?!

This? this is revenge for saying tbh over 50 times in a single week.

jk, obviously. I think Vos could take Nyriss down or at the very least hold his own against her, while Mace defeats Scourge. But that's just me

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
This? this is revenge for saying tbh over 50 times in a single week.

jk, obviously. I think Vos could take Nyriss down or at the very least hold his own against her, while Mace defeats Scourge. But that's just me That's fair tbh but you got me started again by reminding me tbh

lol

Just how low do you rate Meetra and Scourge?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Just how low do you rate Meetra and Scourge?

I still hold my view on the fact that Meetra was weakened during Revan. So, I put her at a low level - no wound, means no Instant ability learning, no mimicking lightsaber styles to near mastery. Yeah she defeated a few Imperial guards, but that doesn't put her at that high of a level. As for Scourge, i don't know where i rank him, I just know he's not good enough to beat Mace.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I think Vos could take Nyriss down or at the very least hold his own against her,
You serious?

Darth Nyriss outdueled and overwhelmed Lord Scourge and Meetra Surik simultaneously. Quinlan Vos is a joke for her.

Originally posted by ILS
Holy shit Vos against two TOR character of course he's outgunned what is this Fated?!

Scourge and Nyriss are seriously powerful people ILS. Vos gets oneshot.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You serious?

Darth Nyriss outdueled and overwhelmed Lord Scourge and Meetra Surik simultaneously. Quinlan Vos is a joke for her.

And Scourge was the only one who was at full power, while Meetra was not at her peak

There really is nothing that can convince me other-wise on the matter that Meetra was weakened, especially not when there's a lot of stuff that points to that being the case.

Even if she was weakened, Nyriss one-shot her and easily defeated her in sabers.

There's even less pointing toward that not being the case, tbh.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
And Scourge was the only one who was at full power, while Meetra was not at her peak
Meetra Surik was not a Wound during her visit to Dromund Kaas and may have lost the benefits affiliated with that condition (e.g. immunity to Force Drain) but that condition was unlikely to influence her raw power and skills. She was a "powerful" Jedi at this point as pointed out in the novel.

In-fact, Darth Traya is also stated to be more powerful then Meetra Surik.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
There really is nothing that can convince me other-wise on the matter that Meetra was weakened, especially not when there's a lot of stuff that points to that being the case.
How exactly?

Watch this:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_medium/11114/111140132/4253751-revan12.gif

Don't try to use Revan as a benchmark to judge Darth Nyriss and Meetra Surik and you will come to terms with superiority of Darth Nyriss over Meetra Surik very soon.

Fact is that Darth Nyriss was among the most powerful Sith Lords in the galaxy in an era when many Sith Lords co-existed including the Sith Triumvirate. And her performance against Lord Scourge and Meetra Surik simply solidifies her position of being a powerhouse, nothing less.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Even if she was weakened, Nyriss one-shot her and easily defeated her in sabers.

And? your point? She defeated a Meetra who wasn't near her prime at all.



So you say, but that's your opinion, and much like you, I won't be swayed

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Team 1

Mace Windu might be capable of tackling anybody in this contest

http://replygif.net/i/875.gif

LEGEND, HOW MANY SCOUNDRELS ARE HOLDING YOU AT GUNPOINT AT THIS VERY SECOND???

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
And? your point? She defeated a Meetra who wasn't near her prime at all.



So you say, but that's your opinion, and much like you, I won't be swayed
Yours is also an opinion, my friend.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
http://replygif.net/i/875.gif

LEGEND, HOW MANY SCOUNDRELS ARE HOLDING YOU AT GUNPOINT AT THIS VERY SECOND???
Waa?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yours is also an opinion, my friend.

Indeed it is.... which is why i said "much like you, I won't be swayed"

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Waa?

SPEAK TO ME, FRIEND. ARE YOU INJURED? ARE YOU WELL?? WHAT ON EARTH WOULD COMPEL YOU TO SAY SUCH A THING?

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Indeed it is.... which is why i said "much like you, I won't be swayed"
You overlooked a response of mine:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Meetra Surik was not a Wound during her visit to Dromund Kaas and may have lost the benefits affiliated with that condition (e.g. immunity to Force Drain) but that condition was unlikely to influence her raw power and skills. She was a "powerful" Jedi at this point as pointed out in the novel.

In-fact, Darth Traya is also stated to be more powerful then Meetra Surik.


How exactly?

Watch this:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_medium/11114/111140132/4253751-revan12.gif

Don't try to use Revan as a benchmark to judge Darth Nyriss and Meetra Surik and you will come to terms with superiority of Darth Nyriss over Meetra Surik very soon.

Fact is that Darth Nyriss was among the most powerful Sith Lords in the galaxy in an era when many Sith Lords co-existed including the Sith Triumvirate. And her performance against Lord Scourge and Meetra Surik simply solidifies her position of being a powerhouse, nothing less.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
SPEAK TO ME, FRIEND. ARE YOU INJURED? ARE YOU WELL?? WHAT ON EARTH WOULD COMPEL YOU TO SAY SUCH A THING?


That point represents my genuine belief. Mace Windu was the second most powerful Jedi in his era barring Yoda, among the finest swordsmen in galactic history, and managed to defeat Darth Sidious with his unique talents. These are sufficient indicators to acknowledge his insane combat prowess.

My love for TOR era doesn't clouds my judgment.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
And? your point? She defeated a Meetra who wasn't near her prime at all.


That even if Meetra was weakened, it would have to be by a hell of a lot to still not make Nyriss a powerhouse.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


That point represents my genuine belief. Mace Windu was the second most powerful Jedi in his era barring Yoda, among the finest swordsmen in galactic history, and managed to defeat Darth Sidious with his unique talents. These are sufficient indicators to acknowledge his insane combat prowess.

My love for TOR era doesn't clouds my judgment.

BUT EVERYONE KNOWS THAT TONS OF TOR CHARACTERS WOULD STOMP THE PT HEAVYWEIGHTS WHY ARE YOU CONTRADICTING YOURSELF?

YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY UNDER DURESS I SHALL SAVE YOU

Originally posted by The_Tempest
BUT EVERYONE KNOWS THAT TONS OF TOR CHARACTERS WOULD STOMP THE PT HEAVYWEIGHTS WHY ARE YOU CONTRADICTING YOURSELF?

YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY UNDER DURESS I SHALL SAVE YOU


I do believe that TOR era witnessed greatest number of powerhouses in co-existence on few occasions because Jedi and Sith had hardened themselves with multiple wars and set a benchmark for competence for themselves to obtain victory. This is implied in Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia.

PT era had different dynamics in comparison to the TOR era because the Sith had retreated to secrecy and sabotaging the Republic from within and the Jedi became complacent due to prolonged period of peace and lacked knowledge of existence of Sith. This is also pointed out in latest Star Wars novels in the form of summaries that are detached from the actual stories.

Even if PT era of the Jedi is assumed to be the golden age for them, this is more likely for the reason that Jedi are in big numbers, flourishing, and do not have lot of external threats to contend with. Much like the golden age of Sith, I don't use this philosophy to determine competence of the Order.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Meetra Surik was not a Wound during her visit to Dromund Kaas and may have lost the benefits affiliated with that condition (e.g. immunity to Force Drain) but that condition was unlikely to influence her raw power and skills. She was a "powerful" Jedi at this point as pointed out in the novel.

In-fact, Darth Traya is also stated to be more powerful then Meetra Surik.

The benefits attributed to her being wound were far greater:

- Faster Learning ability

- Mimicking a lightsaber style to near mastery

- Strength with each person she killed

- Power Via Force bonds with 6 force sensitives.

The lack of the first two would greatly influence her skills and overall fighting ability. the lack of the second two points, would like-wise greatly affect her raw power.

Yeah, true. but what is your point? Traya was stronger, but Meetra beat her...and?




Elaborate on what you're asking.



what does Revan have to do with this? that was after the events of the Revan novel.



Doubtful, Nyriss is nowhere near The Exile from Kotor 2. and i still hold firm to that belief. Also what you mean "Don't try to use Revan as a benchmark to Judge Nyriss"? i didn't imply that she sucked because of Revan



I disagree, defeating a very weak Meetra who had lost all of the benefits of being a wound, is not impressive. defeating a sith lord who was far from his peak, is impressive, but not that much. Nyriss is strong, but Meetra's defeat is circumstantial.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Meetra Surik was not a Wound during her visit to Dromund Kaas and may have lost the benefits affiliated with that condition (e.g. immunity to Force Drain) but that condition was unlikely to influence her raw power and skills. She was a "powerful" Jedi at this point as pointed out in the novel.

In-fact, Darth Traya is also stated to be more powerful then Meetra Surik.


How exactly?

Watch this:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_medium/11114/111140132/4253751-revan12.gif

Don't try to use Revan as a benchmark to judge Darth Nyriss and Meetra Surik and you will come to terms with superiority of Darth Nyriss over Meetra Surik very soon.

Fact is that Darth Nyriss was among the most powerful Sith Lords in the galaxy in an era when many Sith Lords co-existed including the Sith Triumvirate. And her performance against Lord Scourge and Meetra Surik simply solidifies her position of being a powerhouse, nothing less.

How Exactly.. Like Revan reborn....

The matter iz about wich Dark Revan are you talking about? Doez 3.0 Dark Revan even zeparate from the light part iz able to channeling both zid of the force and uze together az Revan reborn? Like force protection, tutaminiz + abzorbtion, + zuper force buble zhield + Lighning + forcz ztorm in the zame time....

Revan reborn ztill more powerfull....

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You serious?

Darth Nyriss outdueled and overwhelmed Lord Scourge and Meetra Surik simultaneously. Quinlan Vos is a joke for her.

While furious at her betrayal, on a Dark Side Nexus and closer to death than anyone has ever seen.

Sure, Vos would die, but it wouldn't be a stomp.

LeGenD, just ignore Fated. He's just a troll with no credibility these days.

1.) This is irrelevant. All this means is that Meetra didn't get any stronger since KOTOR 2.

2.) So? She knows those lightsaber forms now, it's not like she forgot them.

3.) That strength didn't evaporate into thin air, you know. This is the same as point #1.

4.) Those Force Bonds are still there, dude.



Except that she defeated the Exile.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


I do believe that TOR era witnessed greatest number of powerhouses in co-existence on few occasions because Jedi and Sith had hardened themselves with multiple wars and set a benchmark for competence for themselves to obtain victory. This is implied in Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia.

PT era had different dynamics in comparison to the TOR era because the Sith had retreated to secrecy and sabotaging the Republic from within and the Jedi became complacent due to prolonged period of peace and lacked knowledge of existence of Sith. This is also pointed out in latest Star Wars novels in the form of summaries that are detached from the actual stories.

Even if PT era of the Jedi is assumed to be the golden age for them, this is more likely for the reason that Jedi are in big numbers, flourishing, and do not have lot of external threats to contend with. Much like the golden age of Sith, I don't use this philosophy to determine competence of the Order.

THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU CONTRADICTING YOURSELF. CLEARLY TOR IS JUST BETTERER THAN THE PT IN ALL WAYS NOT JUST WAR IM SURE TOR SECRECY > PT SECRECY SO WHY ARE YOU SAYING THESE COOL THINGS ABOUT MACE WINDU

IIRC LeGenD had Dooku and Mace ranked below Ven Zallow.

*Thinks for a moment*

LeGenD, do you have Zallow>Nyriss?

Guys, I think LeGenD may honestly be in legitimate danger here.

LeGenD>Tempest

Team 2 pretty easily

Nyriss is fodder without a nexus

Originally posted by NewGuy01
1.) This is irrelevant. All this means is that Meetra didn't get any stronger since KOTOR 2.

2.) So? She knows those lightsaber forms now, it's not like she forgot them.

3.) That strength didn't evaporate into thin air, you know. This is the same as point #1.

4.) Those Force Bonds are still there, .

1- No, having lost that ability would greatly impair her.

2- She knows Shii-Cho, Makashi, Soresu and Juyo, The first three supposedly came back "naturally" according to Kreia and the last one she could have mimicked from Atris. Seeing as how Meetra lost all of her knowledge - Battle Meditation, Breath Control and force immunity abilities, her losing her knowledge of the forms she mimicked is also likely. Plus, we also have to take into consideration the fact that we don't know which forum the masters taught her. She could have learned Force forms or Lightsaber forms, it's a big unknown.

3- unless you're cut off from the thing that allowed you to feed off that deatb and power.

4- I'm unsure of this part, one of the masters said she had the force bond ability before she went to Malachor.. curious even then, she lost two of her supporters. Mira and Bao Dur, possibly Atton as well if we count cut-content. And of course she lost Kreia.


The weakened Exile.

Come to think of it Scourge sucks badly, so Windu can likely solo this

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
The benefits attributed to her being wound were far greater:

- Faster Learning ability

- Mimicking a lightsaber style to near mastery

- Strength with each person she killed

- Power Via Force bonds with 6 force sensitives.
1. What she learned during her time as a Wound is ingrained in her during her visit to Dromund Kaas.

2. Same as above.

3. This is how she progressed from being a normal human to a powerful Force-user till she healed.

4. Their was no need for her to formulate a bond with another Force-sensitive to maintain her strength after she healed.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
The lack of the first two would greatly influence her skills and overall fighting ability. the lack of the second two points, would like-wise greatly affect her raw power.
See above.

By the time she confronted Darth Nyriss, she was a powerful Jedi and an immensely skilled duelist.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Yeah, true. but what is your point? Traya was stronger, but Meetra beat her...and?
Meetra Surik was never intended to be super-strong like Revan. She had her prime moments but it isn't implied anywhere that she will manage to defeat every Sith Lord in every setting because she defeated Darth Traya on Malachor V.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Elaborate on what you're asking.
How exactly is (healed) Meetra Surik weaker then (Wound) Meetra Surik? Any official information?

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
what does Revan have to do with this? that was after the events of the Revan novel.
Revan have a lot to do with this. The sheer disparity between his power and that of Meetra Surik is what led some fans to speculate about Meetra Surik being a weaksauce after she healed. She isn't and the novel explicitly makes this clear.

Revan is far stronger then Meetra Surik (and majority of the Jedi and Sith in the mythos). He shouldn't be used as a benchmark to judge Darth Nyriss and Meetra Surik.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Doubtful, Nyriss is nowhere near The Exile from Kotor 2. and i still hold firm to that belief. Also what you mean "Don't try to use Revan as a benchmark to Judge Nyriss"? i didn't imply that she sucked because of Revan
And what makes you think that Darth Nyriss doesn't holds a candle to The Exile of KoTOR 2?

The Exile was never about being a juggernaut of competence and destruction. This story is about redemption of an exiled Jedi who emerged as a hero under extraordinary circumstances, her condition facilitated her success and The Force was with her or something. This is what I gather from the story of KoTOR 2.

Revan, on the other hand, have always been hyped as a super-strong individual.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I disagree, defeating a very weak Meetra who had lost all of the benefits of being a wound, is not impressive. defeating a sith lord who was far from his peak, is impressive, but not that much. Nyriss is strong, but Meetra's defeat is circumstantial.
Darth Nyriss wasn't some chump. She became a member of a Dark Council on merit and lasted 20 years in that position due to her cunning and power. If she and some Dark Council members are stronger then Meetra Surik/The Exile, this isn't a big deal and neither this implies that the referred Jedi is not among the best of the Order. Dark Council members are likely to be stronger then majority of the Jedi and Sith on average.

Originally posted by Selenial
While furious at her betrayal, on a Dark Side Nexus and closer to death than anyone has ever seen.

Sure, Vos would die, but it wouldn't be a stomp.
I hold Meetra Surik in high regard, never thought less of her abilities. But I don't have an issue about her inferiority to a Dark Council member. And come on, Meetra Surik wasn't closer to death at this point.

My point is that Meetra Surik and Lord Scourge couldn't tackle Darth Nyriss with their combined effort and didn't manage to posit much of a challenge to her either. Quinlan Vos is relatively lesser threat. This is a stomp indeed.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU CONTRADICTING YOURSELF. CLEARLY TOR IS JUST BETTERER THAN THE PT IN ALL WAYS NOT JUST WAR IM SURE TOR SECRECY > PT SECRECY SO WHY ARE YOU SAYING THESE COOL THINGS ABOUT MACE WINDU


I never considered this to be the case. While I find TOR era more fascinating (thanks to the masterpiece KoTOR I), I do not overlook the merits of other eras.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
IIRC LeGenD had Dooku and Mace ranked below Ven Zallow.

*Thinks for a moment*

LeGenD, do you have Zallow>Nyriss?
Ven Zallow is among the finest of the Jedi, this is what I would say at the moment. Ranking him can be tricky due to limited information but he is SOLID based on what I have learned about him from TOR sources and my play-through of the Jedi Knight story. Unfortunately, he looks less impressive in the trailer due to inadequate exploration or expansion of the lore at the time of its release. So don't let the trailer fool you.

Originally posted by Bane Dies Again
Only Dooku. He has Mace way above the Count.
You "do" pay attention sometimes. Good.

What mention does he have in the Jedi Knight story?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
What mention does he have in the Jedi Knight story?
Ven Zallow was likely the strongest and most skilled Jedi stationed inside the Jedi Temple at the time of the raid, if assessment of Darth Malgus is to be believed. Some other great warriors were also inside the Jedi Temple during this time such as Jedi Master Usma and Bengel Morr, the latter survived though. This disclosure makes Ven Zallow even more impressive then he originally seemed to be.

C'mon, LeGenD, we all know that PT characters are puny next to TOR characters. You don't have to be polite.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Ven Zallow was likely the strongest and most skilled Jedi stationed inside the Jedi Temple at the time of the raid, if assessment of Darth Malgus is to be believed. Some other great warriors were also inside the Jedi Temple during this time such as Jedi Master Usma and Bengel Morr, the latter survived though. This disclosure makes Ven Zallow even more impressive then he originally seemed to be.

How does Ven fare against fighters such as Kyle Katarn and Plo Koon in your opinion?

Not to mention that those bonds are still present.





On top of that, it's not like she was completely overran--The novel stated she was holding her own.

Surik was definitely intended to be super-strong like Revan. Solo'ing Malachor plus beating Traya and getting called her greatest student makes that abundantly clear.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Surik was definitely intended to be super-strong like Revan. Solo'ing Malachor plus beating Traya and getting called her greatest student makes that abundantly clear.
Powerful? Yes.

Super-strong? No.

KoTOR II hyped Revan much more then Meetra Surik actually. The latter earned the accolade of being the best student in the end. Also, one of the Jedi Masters considered The Exile as being average.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


KoTOR II hyped Revan much more then Meetra Surik actually. The latter earned the accolade of being the best student in the end. Also, one of the Jedi Masters considered The Exile as being average.

And that Master is Vrook Lamar, a man who lowballs the hell out of Revan and Meetra on a daily basis

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Powerful? Yes.

Super-strong? No.

KoTOR II hyped Revan much more then Meetra Surik actually. The latter earned the accolade of being the best student in the end. Also, one of the Jedi Masters considered The Exile as being average.

Meetra fought through an entire academy of Sith capable of drawing power from her, getting more powerful the more powerful she was, and defeated Darth Sion about 6 times in a row and Darth Traya twice in a row. On Malachor V, one of the greatest darkside nexus' of all time, with hyper-gravity from the mass shadow generator. After she'd crash landed on the planet and fought through masses of Storm beasts.

Plus she was growing more powerful from every person she killed and from her force bonds as well as instantly learning several advanced techniques and almost instantly mastering lightsaber forms that usually take years to grasp.

She was super strong.

Vrook was an *******. Kavar said she was talented.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
And that Master is Vrook Lamar, a man who lowballs the hell out of Revan and Meetra on a daily basis
Vrook Lamar to Revan: "The Force flows through you like no student we have ever seen."

Fated lacks knowledge on KotOR. His confusion is to be expected.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Meetra fought through an entire academy of Sith capable of drawing power from her, getting more powerful the more powerful she was, and defeated Darth Sion about 6 times in a row and Darth Traya twice in a row. On Malachor V, one of the greatest darkside nexus' of all time, with hyper-gravity from the mass shadow generator. After she'd crash landed on the planet and fought through masses of Storm beasts.

Plus she was growing more powerful from every person she killed and from her force bonds as well as instantly learning several advanced techniques and almost instantly mastering lightsaber forms that usually take years to grasp.

She was super strong.
The Exile apparently benefitted from Wound condition on Malachor V. Its environment wouldn't have influenced her in the manner as it would a normal Force-user, and she was immune to effects of Force Drain. Apart from this, she was an immensely skilled duelist so it doesn't surprise me that she kicked so many butts during her raid on the Sith fortress.

Darth Sion wasn't an exceptional warrior, he benefitted from his immortality which would allow him to revive himself again and again till his opponent would perish. Against The Exile, he faltered because he developed feelings for her and the Jedi convinced him to give-up.

Darth Traya, a very powerful Force-user, somehow underperformed on Malachor V or deliberately avoided killing The Exile. She lost her only remaining hand in the first bout which would have weakened her, and then used her powers to perform telekinetic lightsaber dueling which may have been a tedious task and The Exile outdueled her in this bout as well. I also recall that The Exile shared a special bond with Darth Traya which ended during this confrontation. Therefore, Meetra Surik may have put additional strain on Darth Traya by drawing on her power, using this bond to her advantage.

The events of Malachor V indicate that Meetra Surik had became powerful and an immensely skilled duelist.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vrook was an *******. Kavar said she was talented.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The Exile apparently benefitted from Wound condition on Malachor V. Its environment wouldn't have influenced her in the manner as it would a normal Force-user, and she was immune to effects of Force Drain. Apart from this, she was an immensely skilled duelist so it doesn't surprise me that she kicked so many butts during her raid on the Sith fortress.

Darth Sion wasn't an exceptional warrior, he benefitted from his immortality which would allow him to revive himself again and again till his opponent would perish. Against The Exile, he faltered because he developed feelings for her and the Jedi convinced him to give-up.

Darth Traya, a very powerful Force-user, somehow underperformed on Malachor V or deliberately avoided killing The Exile. She lost her only remaining hand in the first bout which would have weakened her, and then used her powers to perform telekinetic lightsaber dueling which may have been a tedious task and The Exile outdueled her in this bout as well.

The events of Malachor V indicate that Meetra Surik had became powerful and an immensely skilled duelist.




The Revan novel confirms that Meetra was assaulted mentally and physically by the effects of Malachor. She was even gasping for air the whole time because of the gravity.

All the stuff you just said doesn't undermine her feats. That she was an immensely powerful and skilled fighter is the same as being super strong. And Traya doesn't have to have underperformed, the Exile was just better than her. Sion was an exceptional fighter (compared to ordinary Sith) and the Exile beat him over and over again on a powerful nexus after fighting through a horde of Sith.

She was super strong.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
And that Master is Vrook Lamar, a man who lowballs the hell out of Revan and Meetra on a daily basis

This. Your knowledge on Kotor 2 continues to amaze me LeGenD.

For someone who has never, ever, played the game, I find it hilarious you seek to lecture people who are currently on there 30-something'th play through.

Surik was literally a master of every form of Lightsaber Combat. And you know what, Vrook might have called her Average, but:

"It's not possible... you... you must be stopped!"
"Your.. power, is undeniable"

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Darth Sion wasn't an exceptional warrior, he benefitted from his immortality which would allow him to revive himself again and again till his opponent would perish. Against The Exile, he faltered because he developed feelings for her and the Jedi convinced him to give-up.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong, wrong wrong wrong wrong.

He outdueled a Jedi Master who was "A master of Lightsaber combat" and force crushed her like an absolute boss... He wasn't a mook.

Vrook called her unremarkable before the Mandalorian war. In the game she grew far, far greater than she'd ever been as an ordinary Jedi because of her unique powers.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Revan novel confirms that Meetra was assaulted mentally and physically by the effects of Malachor. She was even gasping for air the whole time because of the gravity.
Malachor V would have stressed others too, not just her.

Originally posted by Nephthys
All the stuff you just said doesn't undermine her feats. That she was an immensely powerful and skilled fighter is the same as being super strong. And Traya doesn't have to have underperformed, the Exile was just better than her. Sion was an exceptional fighter (compared to ordinary Sith) and the Exile beat him over and over again on a powerful nexus after fighting through a horde of Sith.

She was super strong.
I am not undermining her feats, simply refuting the notion that she was super-strong. She was powerful, not super-strong like Revan.

Originally posted by Selenial
This. Your knowledge on Kotor 2 continues to amaze me LeGenD.

For someone who has never, ever, played the game, I find it hilarious you seek to lecture people who are currently on there 30-something'th play through.

Surik was literally a master of every form of Lightsaber Combat. And you know what, Vrook might have called her Average, but:

"It's not possible... you... you must be stopped!"
"Your.. power, is undeniable"
In case, you missed:

Vrook Lamar to Revan: "The Force flows through you like no student we have ever seen."

Surik's dueling skills are not in dispute, I have always admired her martial prowess. Her martial abilities may have been a major factor in her victory on Malachor V.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
In case, you missed:

Vrook Lamar to Revan: "The Force flows through you like no student we have ever seen."

Surik's dueling skills are not in dispute, I have always admired her martial prowess. Her martial abilities may have been a major factor in her victory on Malachor V.

And?

Congratulations, Revan isn't knight level. What a phenomenal accomplishment.

Originally posted by Selenial
Wrong wrong wrong wrong, wrong wrong wrong wrong.

He outdueled a Jedi Master who was "A master of Lightsaber combat" and force crushed her like an absolute boss... He wasn't a mook.
I am not asserting that he was a mook. Above average, yes.

However, Darth Sion immensely benefitted from his immortality during his confrontations. He was struck down many times in his battles only to rise up again and again to defeat his adversaries.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am not asserting that he was a mook. Above average, yes.

However, Darth Sion immensely benefitted from his immortality during his confrontations. He was struck down many times in his battles only to rise up again and again to defeat his adversaries.

Except the mere ability to stave off death is incredibly impressive.

He was struck down in battle because he relished it, and even then most of the time it was while outnumbered.

If you have any examples of someone who is not incredibly powerful beating him, I'd love to hear them.

Originally posted by Selenial
And?

Congratulations, Revan isn't knight level. What a phenomenal accomplishment.
It refutes this claim:

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
And that Master is Vrook Lamar, a man who lowballs the hell out of Revan and Meetra on a daily basis

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It refutes this claim:

He lowballs Meetra, that is true. The other masters say she mastered the form they tought, even Vash. He says her form is sloppy.
However when she replicates him as a Dark Jedi, he is terrified.

It's obvious he is lowballing her simply because he does not want to admit he was wrong, or praise someone he despises.

Vrook on the other hand for Revan, treated him with a cold shoulder, constantly said he was falling to the Dark Side and was in danger of even training him.

The point Fated was making is that Vrook's a jackass, nothing more.

Dark Jedi Meetra version is non-canon though, Selenial.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Dark Jedi Meetra version is non-canon though, Selenial.

She is no different in power levels or lightsaber mastery however, so it's applicable.

And no draining masters did not increase her power, Traya said it was temporary.

Originally posted by Selenial
Except the mere ability to stave off death is incredibly impressive.
Indeed. However, this also implies that he is expending lot of energy performing this act alone.

Sion finds that keeping his decomposing flesh tethered together with dark side energy is inexplicably painful, and requires endless concentration on the rage that festers inside him - but immortality is immortality. (Taken from Knights of the Old Republic - Campaign Guide)

Originally posted by Selenial
He was struck down in battle because he relished it, and even then most of the time it was while outnumbered.

If you have any examples of someone who is not incredibly powerful beating him, I'd love to hear them.
This;

Sion embarks on a Jedi-assassination spree, "dying" many more times, but always ending more lives. (Taken from Knights of the Old Republic - Campaign Guide)

Darth Traya easily humbled him on Malachor V. And Meetra Surik convinced him to give-up with Dun Moch. Apart from these two, other adversaries are unknown.

Quote for Lonna Vash being a master of lightsaber combat?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Indeed. However, this also implies that he is expending lot of energy performing this act alone.

Sion finds that keeping his decomposing flesh tethered together with dark side energy is inexplicably painful, and requires endless concentration on the rage that festers inside him - but immortality is immortality. (Taken from Knights of the Old Republic - Campaign Guide)


This;

Sion embarks on a Jedi-assassination spree, "dying" many more times, but always ending more lives. (Taken from Knights of the Old Republic - Campaign Guide)

Darth Traya easily humbled him on Malachor V. And Meetra Surik convinced him to give-up with Dun Moch. Apart from these two, other adversaries are unknown.

Exactly, that just shows that being able to stay in a trance and simultaneously kill hundreds of Jedi is an impressive feat.

And that doesnt mean he was killed in Single combat, he was likely ganged up upon. The fact that he managed to compete with Jedi Masters who were masters of Lightsaber combat shows he was talented, and force crushing them even more so.

Being beaten by Surik and Traya isn't exactly degrading.

Originally posted by Selenial
He lowballs Meetra, that is true. The other masters say she mastered the form they tought, even Vash. He says her form is sloppy.
However when she replicates him as a Dark Jedi, he is terrified.

It's obvious he is lowballing her simply because he does not want to admit he was wrong, or praise someone he despises.

Vrook on the other hand for Revan, treated him with a cold shoulder, constantly said he was falling to the Dark Side and was in danger of even training him.

The point Fated was making is that Vrook's a jackass, nothing more.
Vrook might be a jackass but he does not hesitates to praise someone even if he does so reluctantly as apparent from his conversation with Revan.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Quote for Lonna Vash being a master of lightsaber combat?
"As a former member of the Jedi Council, Darth Traya is a master of lightsaber combat"

Implies that to be on the council, one must be a master of Lightsaber combat. Which is fitting, since every Jedi you encounter from the Council were indeed masters of the blade. Zez Kai Ell, Traya, Kavarr, Vrook, Atris, Vandar, all of them.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vrook might be a jackass but he does not hesitates to praise someone even if he does so reluctantly as apparent from his conversation with Revan.

And he does praise Surik.

What's your point?

Originally posted by Selenial
Exactly, that just shows that being able to stay in a trance and simultaneously kill hundreds of Jedi is an impressive feat.

And that doesnt mean he was killed in Single combat, he was likely ganged up upon. The fact that he managed to compete with Jedi Masters who were masters of Lightsaber combat shows he was talented, and force crushing them even more so.

Being beaten by Surik and Traya isn't exactly degrading.
Not a single disclosure implies that he was ganged-up. Not ruling out the possibility but you make it sound like as if this was norm which isn't the case.

Which of his adversaries have been confirmed to be Jedi Masters and expert swordsmen barring Darth Traya?

Darth Sion immensely benefitted from his immortality, not much from his skills since he ended-up struck down many times as well. This isn't a great display of combat prowess.

I am not asserting that his loss to those two degrades him, but this does affirm that a powerful adversary can defeat and/or humble him. And not a single source confirms that Darth Sion have ever managed to defeat a powerful adversary under fair circumstances. Therefore, his power and skills are certainly in question if he is being used as an example to hype Meetra Surik.

Originally posted by Selenial
"As a former member of the Jedi Council, Darth Traya is a master of lightsaber combat"

Implies that to be on the council, one must be a master of Lightsaber combat. Which is fitting, since every Jedi you encounter from the Council were indeed masters of the blade. Zez Kai Ell, Traya, Kavarr, Vrook, Atris, Vandar, all of them.
Not necessarily.

Jedi Masters do not become members of the Jedi High Council on the basis of their skill and powers. They mostly acquire such positions by being role-model Jedi. Yes, powerful Jedi do often arrive in the Jedi High Council but this is not a requirement.

Originally posted by Selenial
And he does praise Surik.

What's your point?
Its an indication that Meetra Surik wasn't super-strong.

KoTOR II doesn't hypes Meetra Surik as a super-strong Force-user, it hypes her as being the best student of Darth Traya/Jedi Master Kriea. However, the same source immensely hypes Revan in relation to his power.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Not necessarily.

Jedi Masters do not become members of the Jedi High Council on the basis of their skill and powers. They mostly acquire such positions by being role-model Jedi. Yes, powerful Jedi do often arrive in the Jedi High Council but this is not a requirement.

Except that quote says exactly that, you have to be a master of Lightsaber combat.

No they weren't, mother Sel.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Not a single disclosure implies that he was ganged-up. Not ruling out the possibility but you make it sound like as if this was norm which isn't the case.

Which of his adversaries have been confirmed to be Jedi Masters and expert swordsmen barring Darth Traya?

Darth Sion immensely benefitted from his immortality, not much from his skills since he ended-up struck down many times as well. This isn't a great display of combat prowess.

I am not asserting that his loss to those two degrades him, but this does affirm that a powerful adversary can defeat and/or humble him. And not a single source confirms that Darth Sion have ever managed to defeat a powerful adversary under fair circumstances. Therefore, his power and skills are certainly in question if he is being used as an example to hype Meetra Surik.

They don't, you're right. However the fact he beat a council member who's a master of Lightsaber combat proves that there must have been many people...

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No they weren't, mother Sel.

It says it mmk.

Stop going against me or you're grounded.

Council members were appointed for a large variety. There have been some members who hardly/never use a lightsaber. But okay, sorry.
*DarthAnt66 leaves the topic shamefully and runs to his room, slams the door, and then texts his friends over how mean his mom is being.*

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Council members were appointed for a large variety. There have been some members who hardly/never use a lightsaber. But okay, sorry.
*DarthAnt66 leaves the topic shamefully and runs to his room, slams the door, and then texts his friends over how mean his mom is being.*

Again, "As a former member of the Jedi Council, Darth Traya is a master of lightsaber combat" disagrees with you.

Sure, a lot of council members have been bad with sabers, but this council was obviously different, given the quote.

They were wartime Jedi afterall.

Seeing as you guys take TSLRCM as Canon most of the time, we know she mastered Niman too.

Using a quote found by me, but then telling me to go to my room, is pretty lame.
But nah, your interpretation of the vague quote is not canonical, to be entirely honest.

Thank you for stepping in Sel. Every single argument you made perfect

Even the one wher- *Selenial grounds me.*

Originally posted by Selenial
"As a former member of the Jedi Council, Darth Traya is a master of lightsaber combat"


Lol, so nothing then. Traya is a master of lightsaber combat, not Vash.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Lol, so nothing then. Traya is a master of lightsaber combat, not Vash.

"As a former member of the Jedi Council,"

Also, TLSRCM Confirms she's a master of Niman.

Oh Your point is pretty baseless Legend, Meetra is constantly praised by Kreia, Kavar, Zez-Kai-El(and in cut-content, Lonna Vash as well) the only two people that hound her are Atris and Vrook. two jedi who completely dislike the hell out of her, who complete disagree with her going to war and advocated for her Exile

SWTOr question: All of my comps seem to be more or less neutral in morality. So does that mean they can't wield Dark IV weapons? Or can they wield dark IV weapons if I myself and Dark IV?

YOU ARE ON SWTOR!???!?!??!?!?!?!?!!??!?!?! WHY DIDNT YOU TELL ME WTDFADOOGLES

Originally posted by NewGuy01
SWTOr question: All of my comps seem to be more or less neutral in morality. So does that mean they can't wield Dark IV weapons? Or can they wield dark IV weapons if I myself and Dark IV?

Yeh, if you're Dark IV they can wield them. None of your companions Light/Dark meters move.

Kk thanks.

Selenial, what's your main Imp on Harbinger?