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Both at their peak.

Setting: Jabba's palace

Who wins?

HoT

Maul easily.

It could go either way imo, it's a glorious fight either way.

HoT.

Based on Nova's respect thread, I'm going with Maul.

Nah HoT isnt as skilled

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
It could go either way imo, it's a glorious fight either way.

Agreed, but siding with the HoT 6/10.

Newguys true colors as TOR fanboy emerge

Originally posted by carthage
Newguys true colors as TOR fanboy emerge

Saying HoT > Maul makes someone a TOR fanboy in your eyes?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Agreed, but siding with the HoT 6/10.
Yeah, HoT takes this, if with difficulty.

Originally posted by carthage
Newguys true colors as TOR fanboy emerge
"Our greatest student! Our greatest failure."

Can someone tell me something about Hero of Tython that Nova's thread didn't? I'm not seeing how he wins.

-Mind dominating Tol Bragga (If you choose Dark Side)
-Casually collapsing ceiling portions
-Powering through weakened Vitiate's powers on a nexus
-Fighting through the Imperial Guard on a nexus (The guard has killed Dark Council members)
-Defeating Lord Scourge, who's power was as great as any of the Dark Council, before reaching his peak
-Is stronger than Satele and basically everyone else in the Order

Those are pretty much his best feats, give or take. He should be at least on oar with Maul, from that IMO.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
-Mind dominating Tol Bragga (If you choose Dark Side)
-Casually collapsing ceiling portions
-Powering through weakened Vitiate's powers on a powerful nexus
-Fighting through the Imperial Guard on a nexus (The guard has killed Dark Council members)
-Defeating Lord Scourge, who's power was as great as any of the Dark Council, before reaching his peak
-Is stronger than Satele and everyone else in the Order

Those are pretty much his best feats, give or take. He should be at least on oar with Maul, from that IMO. Unless he uses TP combatively I don't see that mattering.

So Vitiate was.. more or less unamped? Feats for an unamped Vitiate? Or how impressive would you say it is as a feat, I guess? It's more of a defensive feat anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter given Maul would likely win through saber combat.

Aren't Dark Council Members just unquantifiable hype?

Read above.

Eh, Maul is also stronger than Satele fairly comfortably.

Originally posted by ILS
Feats for an unamped Vitiate?


Easily defeating Revan?

Vitiate wasn't just unamped, he was weakened by the failed attempt on his ritual.

A good amount better than Ulic's feat against Ominin, to be sure. Yeah, I was talking about his Force defenses.



We have a good idea of how strong they tend to be, from the ones we've seen. If it means anything, Nyriss had resigned that the Imperial guard would kill her, and we know how strong she is.



I know, and the point is that the Hero is too.

Ulic wasn't using his lightsaber though, but just his Force shields. Ulic was on a nexus as well.
Eh. To be honest I can agree with HoT being comparable to Maul in power but I see Maul as more skilled, for definite.

Hero wins solidly. Suggesting a mere Sith Apprentice can defeat one of the Jedi Order's most famous champions is quite pathetic.

He also blitzed two Sith Lords that had just defeated a Jedi Councillor, though I think they ambushed her.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Hero wins solidly. Suggesting a mere Sith Apprentice can defeat one of the Jedi Order's most famous champions is quite pathetic.

To be honest, Vitiate even in his weakened state in TOR could probably one-shot Darth Maul.

Maul would probably speedblitz tbh

Scourge is basically fodder compared to anyone Maul's fought, and his TK feats are inferior. Maul kills him in a duel

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Suggesting a mere Sith Apprentice can defeat one of the Jedi Order's most famous champions is quite pathetic.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Hero wins solidly. Suggesting a mere Sith Apprentice can defeat one of the Jedi Order's most famous champions is quite pathetic.

That's incredibly weak reasoning TBH.

Hero has only beaten featless opponents, he would get stomped horribly in a duel. His level of power is being wanked as well, he's only broken a ceiling lol. Maul throwing a ship is a superior feat to anything shown by HoT. Ragdolling a weakened Vitiate who couldn't defend himself does not impress me

Suggesting a mere Jedi Knight can defeat one of the most skilled Sith Lords in history is equally pathetic tbh.

Originally posted by carthage
Hero has only beaten featless opponents, he would get stomped horribly in a duel. His level of power is being wanked as well, he's only broken a ceiling lol. Maul throwing a ship is a superior feat to anything shown by HoT. Ragdolling a weakened Vitiate who couldn't defend himself does not impress me
Who's trying to impress you though?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Hero wins solidly. Suggesting a mere Sith Apprentice can defeat one of the Jedi Order's most famous champions is quite pathetic.
This mere apprentice defeated one of the most famous champions of the Order of his time in case you don't know.

Originally posted by Sinious
HoT


Originally posted by ILS
Can someone tell me something about Hero of Tython that Nova's thread didn't? I'm not seeing how he wins.

Nova's respect thread is frankly shit. Read mine. Here.

Dies and then the memory of TOR is purged along with him in oblivion

Maul wins this.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Hero wins solidly. Suggesting a mere Sith Apprentice can defeat one of the Jedi Order's most famous champions is quite pathetic.

Rival Sith Master Darth Maul wins. Nuff said.

T9VWlrJJOJM

Maul wins with mid difficulty at most, in sabers its almost a slaughter for him

http://www.narutoforums.com/images/smilies/user222437_pic71490_1370609620_thumb.png The Maul wank has gotten out of hand. The HoT puts Maul down.

The North Remembers

TOR fans talking about wank lmao

Originally posted by carthage
TOR fans talking about wank lmao

I'm a TOR fan? http://i.imgur.com/V4xJW6d.png

No I just don't believe a PT High Tier can defeat a TOR Top tier.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
http://www.narutoforums.com/images/smilies/user222437_pic71490_1370609620_thumb.png

You a Berserk fan?

Yeah, I've never seen Lord Stark wank TOR. On the other hand, Carthage's ridiculous PT wank is what labeled him as the official troll of KMC.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I'm a TOR fan? http://i.imgur.com/V4xJW6d.png

No I just don't believe a PT High Tier can defeat a TOR Top tier.

HoT isn't top tier. He is a few tiers down from Revan and the Sheev knock off.

I love the PT so much that Malgus is my avatar, maybe I should change it to Maul and say Mace teleports

ILY MARCO!

And Sidious is my avatar. Maybe we should switch roles or find common ground. Like Bane's era is in the middle so maybe we can both abandon our priorities and start wanking Bane as a sign of good faith?

Bane's era is among the weakest in the Star Wars EU

Originally posted by Sinious
Yeah, I've never seen Lord Stark wank TOR. On the other hand, Carthage's ridiculous PT wank is what labeled him as the official troll of KMC.
What he does is no different from what nearly all, if not all TOR fans do. Why being a hypocrite?

Actually carthage is a secret comicvine protector. I've notice that carthage always protect the ridiculous cliches of CV just like ILS does. Such as Sidious speedblitzes everyone, Vader is actually fast and faster than thought, Mace had trouble with Sora Bulq and Depa, real Grievous should be the microseries CW not the Canon one, etc.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Actually carthage is a secret comicvine protector. I've notice that carthage always protect the ridiculous cliches of CV just like ILS does. Such as Sidious speedblitzes everyone, Vader is actually fast and faster than thought, Mace had trouble with Sora Bulq and Depa etc.
I don't believe in Sidious speed blitzing. In fact speed blitz concept doesn't exist for me. But then again he is far from the only person making speed blitzing arguments.

Originally posted by Arhael
But then again he is far from the only person making speed blitzing arguments.

Yeah I know, that is why I said comicvine protector because carthage is not seem like a sidious fanboy yet believes that sidious can saberblitz everyone, which is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Arhael
I don't believe in Sidious speed blitzing. In fact speed blitz concept doesn't exist for me.

Agree.
And we shouldn't call it speedblitz tbh, you need also high level lightsaber skills to do it, saber-blitz would be more proper.

Originally posted by Marco1907

Agree.
And we shouldn't call it speedblitz tbh, you need also high level lightsaber skills to do it, saber-blitz would be more proper.
For me speedblitz doesn't exist primarily because of multiple examples with Force sensitive fighting non-sensitive most notably Vizla vs Ahsoka,Kenobi/Maul. As of Sidious vs B-team, I can come up with plenty of explanations other than Sidious being too fast to react.

Originally posted by Arhael
For me speedblitz doesn't exist primarily because of multiple examples with Force sensitive fighting non-sensitive most notably Vizla vs Ahsoka,Kenobi/Maul. As of Sidious vs B-team, I can come up with plenty of explanations other than Sidious being too fast to react.

I wonder that mandalorians have enhanced speed and strength or not though, it would not be weird since some species and droids actually have.

Still Ahsoka managed to saberblitz 4 mandalorian, yet she failed against Vizsla.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okgh4NCZ95U

Originally posted by Arhael
What he does is no different from what nearly all, if not all TOR fans do. Why being a hypocrite?

He said HoT > Maul. Does that make him a TOR fanboy?

Originally posted by Arhael
What he does is no different from what nearly all, if not all TOR fans do. Why being a hypocrite?

Originally posted by ares834
You a Berserk fan?

Fan is a bit far, but I do appreciate a lot of the artwork in the series.

Originally posted by ares834
HoT isn't top tier. He is a few tiers down from Revan and the Sheev knock off.

A few tiers? Nope. He killed Vitshit's real body.

5oVTIpHIFWI

"I struck the Emperor down myself, I saw him die."
"You destroyed his body. Even wounded his spirit perhaps more than anyone before you..."

Revan, Meetra and Scourge combined could not do that. Was the Emperor weakened? Sure. But HoT had no backup. He's on Revan's level imo, although Revan is likely superior powerwise.

3.0 is seemingly changing the perception of Vitiate from a power standpoint. Before this, the order's champions (revan and the hero of Tython) could contend with the emperor by themselves. Now they're making him out to be a force only able to be beaten by a group of TOR top tiers and infinitely stronger than any one individual.

Yeah Starch, new content directly states no one, not even Revan, can defeat Vitiate.
The fact Revan is superior to the Hero yet was utterly insignificant to Vitiate also shows this.

HoT comfortably. This is not a fair confrontation.

Rofl, the difference between Mace and Maul isn't large enough for this match up to be unfair for Maul and Mace's to be a "good fight"

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
HoT comfortably. This is not a fair confrontation.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
"I struck the Emperor down myself, I saw him die."
"You destroyed his body. Even wounded his spirit perhaps more than anyone before you..."

Revan, Meetra and Scourge combined could not do that. Was the Emperor weakened? Sure. But HoT had no backup. He's on Revan's level imo, although Revan is likely superior powerwise.

Which just goes to show how dramatically weakened Vitiate was in that battle. Revan is not only directly stated to be above the PCs but his new feat shots on anything HoT has done.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
3.0 is seemingly changing the perception of Vitiate from a power standpoint. Before this, the order's champions (revan and the hero of Tython) could contend with the emperor by themselves. Now they're making him out to be a force only able to be beaten by a group of TOR top tiers and infinitely stronger than any one individual.

It is quite possible the Emperor will be engaged in the netherworld of the Dark Side. Marr thinks Vitiate cannot be defeated by normal means, so I don't think it'll be a simple lets kill him. It'll likely be kinda like the gree mission where you go into the digital world.

Originally posted by ares834
Which just goes to show how dramatically weakened Vitiate was in that battle. Revan is not only directly stated to be above the PCs but his new feat shots on anything HoT has done.

On a DS Nexus bro. Revan himself states that a stronger version of himself legitimately lost to the strike team on the foundry.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
On a DS Nexus bro. Revan himself states that a stronger version of himself legitimately lost to the strike team on the foundry.
This makes utterly no sense, sorry.
1.) Foundry Revan is a far weaker incarnation then Dark Revan.
a. Weakened over 300 years of mental war with Vitiate and Dread.
b. Having mental war with his own light side self during the battle.
3. The light side incarnation fought and was killed during the battle.
2.) Foundry Revan nearly defeated the Imperial strike team:
"You barely managed to drive me away last time. What makes you think you can survive against me?"
―Dark Revan (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

LMFAO @ Having a mental war with his light side. Nothing suggests this.

"I cast you out! It was the only way to go on--to remain and finish what we started! You were holding me back!"
--Dark Revan (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
This makes utterly no sense, sorry.
1.) Foundry Revan is a far weaker incarnation then Dark Revan.
a. Weakened over 300 years of mental war with Vitiate and Dread.
b. Having mental war with his own light side self during the battle.
3. The light side incarnation fought and was killed during the battle.
2.) Foundry Revan nearly defeated the Imperial strike team:
"You barely managed to drive me away last time. What makes you think you can survive against me?"
―Dark Revan (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

"You think you're stronger this way...you're wrong."

He cast LS Revan out when he died.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
"You think you're stronger this way...you're wrong."

He cast LS Revan out when he died.
4/5 members consider Dark Revan the most powerful Revan incarnation.
I accept your concession on the other points though.

Depends on whose point of view you are going with here, really. I really wish they would clarify though.
Spirit Revan: I became weakened during the war with Vitiate, and so I began to detach myself. I was killed at the Foundry, so I embraced death and became a Spirit.
Dark Revan: He was too weak to fight the entire war with Vitiate, and so began to detach himself. He was killed at the Foundry, so I cast him out and he became a Spirit.
Spirit Revan said that when he died he still had conscience and wanted to become a spirit. This is perhaps when he nudged Dark Revan to join him, which led to Dark Revan casting him out forever.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
4/5 members consider Dark Revan the most powerful Revan incarnation.
I accept your concession on the other points though.

Depends on whose point of view you are going with here, really. I really wish they would clarify though.
Spirit Revan: I became weakened during the war with Vitiate, and so I began to detach myself. I was killed at the Foundry, so I embraced death and became a Spirit.
Dark Revan: He was too weak to fight the entire war with Vitiate, and so began to detach himself. He was killed at the Foundry, so I cast him out and he became a Spirit.
Spirit Revan said that when he died he still had conscience and wanted to become a spirit. This is perhaps when he nudged Dark Revan to join him, which led to Dark Revan casting him out forever.

I think they're talking about mentally there bro. Even so, if we do say Revan Reborn>Dark Revan>Foundry Revan HoT should still be on his level based on his feats.

Exactly. They diverged at death, not during the battle.

LS Revan diverged right after death, and he died during the Foundry battle.
Though to be entirely honest, it goes down to the interpretation of dialogue.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
LS Revan diverged right after death, and he died during the Foundry battle.
Though to be entirely honest, it goes down to the interpretation of dialogue.

Yeah, I personally thought they just split at death.

Well, if BioWare didn't write a shitty story, maybe we would have known.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
"You think you're stronger this way...you're wrong."

He cast LS Revan out when he died.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
On a DS Nexus bro. Revan himself states that a stronger version of himself legitimately lost to the strike team on the foundry.

Nope he doesn't. Weaker then at full power sure, but not weaker than just woke from 300 years of being camotose while mentally battling Vitiate and Dread Masters and being drained by the former.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I think they're talking about mentally there bro. Even so, if we do say Revan Reborn>Dark Revan>Foundry Revan HoT should still be on his level based on his feats.

Not a single feat he has puts him on the level of smacking around the SoR strike team. Hell, based on feats HoT isn't even on Malgus's level anymore.

Hero was never on Malgus's level. Revan surpassing him shows how wanked and overrated he is

Originally posted by ares834
Nope he doesn't. Weaker then at full power sure, but not weaker than just woke from 300 years of being camotose while mentally battling Vitiate and Dread Masters and being drained by the former.

As I've said repeatedly, Revan had ample time to recover after his rescue. It's not as if he immediately ran off to the Foundry.

Originally posted by carthage
Hero was never on Malgus's level. Revan surpassing him shows how wanked and overrated he is

True, but certain posters tried to spin it that Vitiate was hardly weakened.

Originally posted by Nephthys
As I've said repeatedly, Revan had ample time to recover after his rescue. It's not as if he immediately ran off to the Foundry.
There is utterly no proof for that, and the fact that Revan's halves didn't repair even further suggests he got no healing done.

Originally posted by Nephthys
As I've said repeatedly, Revan had ample time to recover after his rescue. It's not as if he immediately ran off to the Foundry.

And as I said before, it's going to take more than a few weeks or months to be back at top shape. The guys was out if it for 300 years, it's going to take years to physically recover from something like that.

Plus Dark!Revan's feats completely eclipse those of the foundry so...

He must have had the worst "I can't feel my leg" moment.

Originally posted by ares834
And as I said before, it's going to take more than a few weeks to be back at top shape. The guys was out if it for 300 years, it's going to take years to physically recover from something like that.

Plus Dark!Revan's feats completely eclipse those of the foundry so...

He doesn't look to have diminished or have been physically impaired at all. Dude didn't even grow a ****ing beard or get fingernail claws. He was clearly well preserved. The usual atrophy can't be assumed for some who's body was preserved by Sith alchemy, sorcery and whatever else the Emperor used to give him eternal life. If he can be prevented from aging, then preventing from atrophying should be simple.

Also, this is the guy who healed off Vitiate's lightning in a few seconds. Who has the finest Jedi healers and Republic equipment to help him recover as well.

Except we know canonically he never recovered...

^Mentally.

Even if we assume he didn't atrophy that doesn't change the fact that he was out of practice for 300 years...

The idea that he was operating at top condition is frankly absurd.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Except we know canonically he never recovered...

From?

The fact he was still mentally injured during the Foundry, leading to SoR.

Close, 50/50

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The fact he was still mentally injured during the Foundry, leading to SoR.

That he was deranged isn't in question. Physically and in terms of his power though, there's nothing indicating he was impaired.

To save myself from wasting time, are you actually serious or just mocking another member?

Who would I be mocking?

So... you're serious?
http://www.bopandtigerbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/salute1.gif

Originally posted by Nephthys
That he was deranged isn't in question. Physically and in terms of his power though, there's nothing indicating he was impaired.

Except, you know, common sense.

Originally posted by ares834
Except, you know, common sense.

Common sense indicates that a guy who doesn't suffer from age doesn't suffer from atrophy, that a guy with Jedi healing and access to the best medical resources in the Republic can recover from maltreatment rather quickly and that a Jedi can regain their force reserves well inside of a day. Theres no reason for Revan to be physically impaired or have his power weakened.

I can't remember, do you also think that Foundry Revan > Darth Revan as well?

Funny, we also having nothing confirming any of those either. Regardless, none of that addresses the fact that he hasn't walked let alone held a saber for centuries... At the absolute least he is going to be badly out of practice.

Don't know how powerful Darth Revan was. So I can't say.

Originally posted by ares834
Funny, we also having nothing confirming any of those either. Regardless, none of that addresses the fact that he hasn't walked let alone held a saber for centuries... At the absolute least he is going to be badly out of practice.

Don't know how powerful Darth Revan was. So I can't say.

Just like we have nothing confirming he was impaired.

And about him being out of practice, Revan was a genius. He seemed none the worse for wear after his capture in Revan either. Kun didn't seem overly out of practice after thousands of years. Lots of Force users have come back after long periods without practice with their skills undiminished.

I meant to say Dark Revan, my bad. These Revan's are confusing.

Exar Kun also wasn't running around with a light saber.

And yeah, Dark Revan is heads and shoulders above Foundry Revan.

Plural?

Not just one set of head and shoulders, multiple sets. That's how much better Dark Revan is.

Originally posted by Marco1907
I wonder that mandalorians have enhanced speed and strength or not though, it would not be weird since some species and droids actually have.

Still Ahsoka managed to saberblitz 4 mandalorian, yet she failed against Vizsla.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okgh4NCZ95U
Because Vizsla was easily the most skilled Mando perhaps?

Common sense is that Revan after re-awakening did not improve an inch because why would he? Unless he was amped by something.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
It is quite possible the Emperor will be engaged in the netherworld of the Dark Side. Marr thinks Vitiate cannot be defeated by normal means, so I don't think it'll be a simple lets kill him. It'll likely be kinda like the gree mission where you go into the digital world.

I'd assume that The Emperor would entertain manifesting himself in a physical body, in all honesty. Though admittedly, there is plenty of room for speculation on what Bioware will ultimately do with Viti.

-

Originally posted by Arhael
Common sense is that Revan after re-awakening did not improve an inch because why would he? Unless he was amped by something.

He said his power was intensified.