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Round 2 Bulq gets Depa Billaba, Ventress gets Plo Koon

Ventress already won.

Originally posted by ILS
Ventress already won.

Bulq probably.

Ventress.

Originally posted by ILS
Ventress already won.

No she didn't. That was a mock battle in which neither Sora nor Asajj were actually trying to kill each other. The little graze Sora took was just to sell the deception.

Mace drove off Asajj easily, while Sora put up a fairly even fight against him. That alone shows that Sora outclasses Asajj.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Mace drove off Asajj easily, while Sora put up a fairly even fight against him. That alone shows that Sora outclasses Asajj.

And Ventress at her prime was considered an equal to Grevious and actually beat him.

*Pre-prime Grievous

Originally posted by chilled monkey
No she didn't. That was a mock battle in which neither Sora nor Asajj were actually trying to kill each other. The little graze Sora took was just to sell the deception.

Mace drove off Asajj easily, while Sora put up a fairly even fight against him. That alone shows that Sora outclasses Asajj. I was kidding, lol.

Except a source has told us that Mace required all of his skill in order to defeat Ventress, and Ventress left the fight early because she knew this. It wasn't her being stomped like so many people manage to perceive, she was just being smart. Also, the reason Sora did so well against Mace was very likely due to their intrinsic knowledge of each other's fighting style, because you don't go from being disarmed by Dooku in one move while you have back up, to stalemating Mace Windu. So yeah, Ventress is actually better than Bulq, in all reality.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
And Ventress at her prime was considered an equal to Grevious and actually beat him. I don't think Ventress has ever been considered equal to Grievous except in Filoni's opinion, which he hasn't put forward as fact. In Dooku's opinion, and I believe a sourcebook I'll need to dig for, Grievous has been stated as being Ventress's superior (and Dooku's most formidable acolyte), and he stomped her in Rogue's Gallery.

And, you know, Ventress was on Dathomir when she beat Grievous, where she was amped, and this was also coming from a medium which portrays Force Users/Grievous as far less fast/strong/powerful than in EU comics, novels ect.

And most of Grievous's best feats take place after his fight with Ventress while his most embarrassing defeats happen before that.

Pretty much all of his defeats can be justified in-universe, though. His cybernetics needed recharging when he fought Kit Fisto because he had been cut in half not too long ago, and Fisto has a form advantage against multiple blades. Before that, Grievous had fought Kit Fisto and his apprentice (who fodderized several MagnaGuards) at the same time while clones attacked him. His fight with Ventress - she was amped. Then there are things like the Eeth Koth fight which people bend out of shape and try to assert that Grievous was losing against Koth and needed his MagnaGuards' help, when really he was just trying to capture Koth. Then of course there are the Gungans, which partly I see as a result of Lucas' stupidity (or just an inconsistent low showing), and partly because Grievous isn't nearly as fast as he is in the EU, where he has fodderized literally hundreds of clone troopers with his bare hands in one sitting. And it's also inconsistent with the ROTS novel, where Grievous states that he has armed his MagnaGuards with weapons that couldn't possibly hurt him - Electromagnetic staffs - which are the exact weapons the Gungans incapacitated him with.

And then, he's stomped Kenobi twice during TCW, which is always nice.

My point was merely that he did not fight Ventress at his peak, and that he improved from that point.

I wouldn't say he improved as much as he just got better showings, which he probably could have accomplished before that point.

That's a bit of a lowball.

Anyway. Grevious himself says she's his equal in the Arc Trooper episode(during the first attack on Kamino) he never praises anyone, rarely does he do that.

It's not a lowball just because you say it is, bro.

He says "perhaps you're a match for me", to paraphrase, and he said it mockingly. I wouldn't take it too seriously given the overwhelming amount of evidence suggesting Grievous > Ventress we already have.

Originally posted by ILS
It's not a lowball just because you say it is, bro.

He says "perhaps you're a match for me", to paraphrase, and he said it mockingly. I wouldn't take it too seriously given the overwhelming amount of evidence suggesting Grievous > Ventress we already have.

Grevious hasn't taken on Obi-Wan and Anakin Simultaneously nor did he duel with Savage and Maul

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Grevious hasn't taken on Obi-Wan and Anakin Simultaneously nor did he duel with Savage and Maul And Ventress was clearly on the backfoot Ventress has never fought as an equal for Mace Windu whilst hindered by having her feet magnetized to the ground, and Grievous was only using two lightsabers in that fight. In contrast Ventress caused Windu a lot of bother but the winner was still clear between them in the end, the same wasn't the case with Windu and Grievous.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Grevious hasn't taken on Obi-Wan and Anakin Simultaneously nor did he duel with Savage and Maul Ventress was losing to Savage, though, and her fights with Maul were so brief they're hardly worth noting - and fighting Maul and Savage isn't a sign of superiority anyway. Also, you're forgetting that Grievous does fight Maul properly in SOD #4, where they appear to fight off-panel for a while and then Maul chooses to BFR Grievous. Make of that what you will.

I could easily say Ventress has never stomped Kenobi twice, has never performed as well against Mace, never fought five Jedi at once ect, but that's not really an argument because you don't need to carry out identical feats in order to be comparable to someone. Name dropping isn't going to do it, Fated.

Originally posted by ILS
Ventress was losing to Savage, though, and her fights with Maul were so brief they're hardly worth noting - and fighting Maul and Savage isn't a sign of superiority anyway. Also, you're forgetting that Grievous does fight Maul properly in SOD #4, where they appear to fight off-panel for a while and then Maul chooses to BFR Grievous. Make of that what you will.

So her fighting Maul+Savage along side kenobi on screen - even for a few moments, is not worth noting, but Maul's fight with Grevious off panel is? in spite of the fact that we know how that fight went? Like, come on. she held her own against Savage and Maul, and Grevious did the same against Maul. Don't be so dismissive



Most of the time she was a distraction, and she fought evenly with Anakin on Kamino, she even kicked his butt solidly during that fight.



Well there's the out of universe statement from fact file and then there's the statement from the comic. Make of that what you will.


Exhausted Jedi, three of which are the only warriors of note.



Agreed, that isn't my intention though.

I didn't say it wasn't worth noting, I said it wasn't a sign of superiority. Given Grievous' own ability to combat multiple opponents, and his comparable skill and physical ability to Kenobi and Anakin, I have no doubt in my mind he could fight them both at the same time whilst on the backfoot. I'm not being dismissive, you're just misinterpreting my points.
She kicked him down once, and this was pre-prime Anakin. Good feat because she's comparable to Anakin? Yes. Conclusive evidence of her being > Anakin or Grievous? Nah, because Anakin has also bested her, and so have Grievous and Mace already without circumstances.
What I make of it is that Ventress couldn't perform as well as Grievous against a common opponent even though Grievous even had circumstances riding against him.
Obviously, but Ventress hasn't ever replicated this level of multi-tasking or dexterity.

Originally posted by ILS
Obviously, but Ventress hasn't ever replicated this level of multi-tasking or dexterity. She did fight three Jedi, including K'Kruhk, simultaneously with ease. Not as many as Grievous, but still.

None of them were really notable duelists, though. Plus IIRC she used TK on them.

Grievous and Ventress had a close ass fight on Dathomir, then Grievous improved from that point since the majority of his most impressive feats happened after that fight.

Grievous>Ventress IMO

Originally posted by ILS
None of them were really notable duelists, though. Plus IIRC she used TK on them. True.
She used TK on them when Mace arrived.

Your av makes me want to watch bambi again

It makes me want to hug something, it's just soooo cute!!!

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy


Anyway. Grevious himself says she's his equal in the Arc Trooper episode(during the first attack on Kamino) he never praises anyone, rarely does he do that.




For Grievous to admit Ventress is her equal, while Ventress holds that he's no match for her certainly suggested Ventress >/= Grievous.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
And most of Grievous's best feats take place after his fight with Ventress while his most embarrassing defeats happen before that.


Wasn't his best feat, when he beat 5 Jedi including Ki-Adi-Mundi and Shaak Ti, supposed to be his first canonical appearance meeting the Jedi?

And his other best feat, defeating Ventress and Durge together the first time they met him as well?

Originally posted by ILS
Pretty much all of his defeats can be justified in-universe, though. His cybernetics needed recharging when he fought Kit Fisto because he had been cut in half not too long ago, and Fisto has a form advantage against multiple blades. Before that, Grievous had fought Kit Fisto and his apprentice (who fodderized several MagnaGuards) at the same time while clones attacked him. His fight with Ventress - she was amped. Then there are things like the Eeth Koth fight which people bend out of shape and try to assert that Grievous was losing against Koth and needed his MagnaGuards' help, when really he was just trying to capture Koth. Then of course there are the Gungans, which partly I see as a result of Lucas' stupidity (or just an inconsistent low showing), and partly because Grievous isn't nearly as fast as he is in the EU, where he has fodderized literally hundreds of clone troopers with his bare hands in one sitting. And it's also inconsistent with the ROTS novel, where Grievous states that he has armed his MagnaGuards with weapons that couldn't possibly hurt him - Electromagnetic staffs - which are the exact weapons the Gungans incapacitated him with.

And then, he's stomped Kenobi twice during TCW, which is always nice.

Originally posted by ILS

I could easily say Ventress has never stomped Kenobi twice,


Wait, Grievous has stomped Kenobi Twice?

Once as far as I'm aware, in the unaired and uncompleted TCW S6 Crystal arc. When was the other time. I really hope you're not counting Grievous kicking Kenobi, after which Kenobi and his troops retreat from Grievous's Forces in S5, as a stomp?!

And FYI Ventress has also stomped Kenobi once in Nightsisters.

lol @ DP trying to take pot shots at Grievous where he can.
I dunno, I can't remember how the fights went exactly I just remember Grievous winning two of them. Possibly poor wording on my part but the point remains.
Is that from an episode called Nightsisters? I don't remember either of them ever stomping each other but, they have traded wins and losses here and there over the course of all of their fights.

Originally posted by Arhael

Should have read second half before putting like. -_- Lucas stupidity is not a valid argument. And obviously will never agree with any speed arguments. Out of curiosity, in which source did he handle 100 troopers?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Wasn't his best feat, when he beat 5 Jedi including Ki-Adi-Mundi and Shaak Ti, supposed to be his first canonical appearance meeting the Jedi?

And his other best feat, defeating Ventress and Durge together the first time they met him as well?
I was thinking holding off Windu, contending with Maul, overloading ROTS Kenobi's defenses, stomping Kenobi in the Utupau arc, Dooku saying Grievous>Ventress, etc.

And the fact that all of his embarrassing defeats happened before that point.

Originally posted by Arhael
Should have read second half before putting like. -_- Lucas stupidity is not a valid argument. And obviously will never agree with any speed arguments. Out of curiosity, in which source did he handle 100 troopers? It also wasn't my only argument, and the speed argument is valid unless you want to only use canon speed for Grievous in versus threads, which is down to the moderators. Until they clarify which speed level we use for canon characters I'll continue to differentiate between sources.

Here are the sources:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4228668-catacombs+-+edited.png

- Star Wars Insider 86: Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4228669-entire+companies.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4228670-entire+companies2.png

- The Essential Guide to Warfare

There are 144 troopers in a company:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4228671-clone+company.png

- The Essential Guide to Warfare

I'm not really sure how ILS can be stomping me since we're supporting the same character here :/

Originally posted by ILS
lol @ DP trying to take pot shots at Grievous where he can.


No not at all. I've already had a long discussion with you about this in general, so you know what my view is, which is to side with Lucas and Filoni. I'm just asking about a couple of the points that have been brought up here, and not really interested in actually entering the debate.



Originally posted by ILS
Is that from an episode called Nightsisters? I don't remember either of them ever stomping each other but, they have traded wins and losses here and there over the course of all of their fights.

Here at 2:50-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtO1U79HSqo

After a few seconds of fighting Kenobi is knocked down disarmed of his weapon and is lying thee absolutely still for a few seconds (might indicate a short KO). So we don't have to be geniuses to know what would have happened if Skywalker wasn't there.

Of course there are factors to consider:

1. Ventress was Rage enhanced
2. Kenobi doesn't do too well on the offensive.

Of course most the times Kenobi struggles with Grievous are not exactly complete context free.

Hmm, I might not call that a stomp but she landed a pretty decent kick on him. Seems kind of weird for him to be down for so long though, he's taken worse hits from stronger opponents and gotten back up much quicker.

I'm thinking of getting all of Kenobi and Ventress' fights together in one thread to see who really is better out of the two one day.

Originally posted by ILS


I'm thinking of getting all of Kenobi and Ventress' fights together in one thread to see who really is better out of the two one day.


A difficult task judging whose better considering they never seem to finish a fight.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Grievous and Ventress had a close ass fight on Dathomir, then Grievous improved from that point since the majority of his most impressive feats happened after that fight.

Grievous>Ventress IMO

I conzider that fight non canon becauze grievouz iz damage like after the coruzcant battle.... And have the zame problemz like in Epizode III but TWC ZI ACTAULLY BEFORE EPIZODE III !! I declared all fight with grievouz in TWC 2008 totaly non canon.....

In fact in the original EU Ventrezz and druge waz juzt azz kicked by grievouz !!!!!!

It's always amusing to see what people consider Canon and Non-Canon.

Ventress.

Sora Bulq.