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Who wins?

No bfring.

Grimm.

Ben.

Carol.... She can blast him from the sky or just dump him in the ocean and wait for him to drown.

Not sure if that would work.

Yeah. To "dump him in the ocean" she would have to pick him up somehow and he is big enough their isn't anyway that she could get a hold of him where he couldn't reach her and fight it off.

*awaits the 13 year old mindset reaction*

???

She is capable of ftl speed, even assuming she can't use it in atmosphere like almost all marvel characters she can tank a few punches.

Carol was strong enough to get the better of Mr. Fixit, until he turned into the Savage Hulk. I think that she may be able to take him based on that one showing.

I always thought Carol had a little bit of a strength advantage and surely speed.

I don't know. Its to close to call.

Carol is probably class 60-80 at base but amping off energy she gets physically stronger.

Her durability is in line with class 100 though.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Carol is probably class 60-80 at base but amping off energy she gets physically stronger.

Her durability is in line with class 100 though.

I don't think that this is the case any longer. She was able to contend with a blood lusted Wonder Man while he was being controlled by Modok, or something along those lines. She was also able to physically over power Mr. Fixit until he turned into the Savage Hulk. So she is somewhere between Mr. Fixit, and Savage Hulk in terms of strength. Fixit of course can become stronger with time, but this still does not excuse her showing against Simon.

She didn't overpower Fixit. She commented that he wasn't as strong as the savage Hulk, then punched him three times, the third one knocking him away. When he came back he had turned into the savage Hulk (inexplicably - Loeb).

Anyway, he never even had a chance to throw a punch and there was certainly no test of strength. Her punches were powerful enough to knock Fixit around, but that's about all we can take from that scene.


Cheers.

Originally posted by LGU
She didn't overpower Fixit. She commented that he wasn't as strong as the savage Hulk, then punched him three times, the third one knocking him away. When he came back he had turned into the savage Hulk (inexplicably - Loeb).

Anyway, he never even had a chance to throw a punch and there was certainly no test of strength. Her punches were powerful enough to knock Fixit around, but that's about all we can take from that scene.


Cheers.

True but it dos not excuse her run in with Simon.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
???

She is capable of ftl speed, even assuming she can't use it in atmosphere like almost all marvel characters she can tank a few punches.


If this is directed at my statement. I meant that Carol is a normal sized human female where as Ben is several times larger then a normal human male. She can't just grab him in any hold that Ben can't reach her. Unless maybe she gets him in a super wedgie or something. And if he GRABS her. She can't "dump him in the ocean".

The dumping in the ocean or BFR has been turned off in the OP. They have to fight it out.

Originally posted by Stoic
True but it dos not excuse her run in with Simon.
Wonder Man knocked her @$$ out not too long ago.

Mr. Fixit was CL70... Ben ko's her faster than Simon did

Simon would punk Ben.

Well Namor didn't look all that impressive against Ben in their last two meetings.

Mr. Fixit isn't class 70...stop using bios and Ms. Marvel was obviously holding back against Wonderman.

Ben.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Simon would punk Ben.


Ben has dominated Simon each time they've tussled

Originally posted by carver9
Mr. Fixit isn't class 70...stop using bios and Ms. Marvel was obviously holding back against Wonderman.


Everyone outside of you, knows that Mr. Fixit is at a base HULK in strength... Please enlighten us on what he is?

Originally posted by Tony Stark
Everyone outside of you, knows that Mr. Fixit is at a base HULK in strength... Please enlighten us on what he is?

You just contradicted yourself, "base Hulk" is above class 70 by quite a bit

Post Binary (when reduced to her new "standard" levles) i was of the belief that Carols stats were raised a few notches. Where she was once a 50 tonner and went up to class 100+ as binary post binary shes supposed to be around 75 tons. Thing was originally around 70 amd I beleive is closer to 80/90 these days. Ben has a strength advantage but a small one.

Carol however has a massive speed advantage, flight and energy projection and manioulation. If BFR were on the table she wouldnt even need to touchmor get close to Ben to pick himmup as she could do so (and has) with energy constructs.

Carol should win in a good fight due to versatility

Originally posted by Tony Stark
Ben has dominated Simon each time they've tussled
Team Simon could just argue that most of the times they fought, Simon was under some sort of outside influence (Xemu and Puppet Master).

Team Ben could argue that Ben was aware of this and was holding back (which he was and it was stated on panel) and still won.

The one fight they had with the least amount of shenanigans was in West Coast Avengers 75. Does anyone have the issue? The WCA and the FF were tricked into fighting each other.

It's Captain Marvel now. And I think she'd win.

Originally posted by carver9
Mr. Fixit isn't class 70...stop using bios and Ms. Marvel was obviously holding back against Wonderman. Originally posted by carver9
Mr. Fixit isn't class 70...stop using bios and Ms. Marvel was obviously holding back against Wonderman. i think ms marvel will win here

Originally posted by Tony Stark
Ben has dominated Simon each time they've tussled That's how i recall their fights.

this is a close one. she's more versatile, he's got an edge in durability imo. maybe carol 6/10?

Originally posted by zopzop
Team Simon could just argue that most of the times they fought, Simon was under some sort of outside influence (Xemu and Puppet Master).

Team Ben could argue that Ben was aware of this and was holding back (which he was and it was stated on panel) and still won.

The one fight they had with the least amount of shenanigans was in West Coast Avengers 75. Does anyone have the issue? The WCA and the FF were tricked into fighting each other.

simon was mind whammied in that fight too and it wasn't really a fight at all as much as it was a single punch thrown by ben that hit simon who was slowed due to the spell he was under. after the punch ironman attacked ben and clint took him out with a single arrow. lol

classic wca stuff.... anyway, absolutely nothing to be gleaned from that meeting.

I never saw that fight.

you didn\t miss anything....

Didn`t Carol Danvers eventually become binary,then war bird after that?However,I think if Ben went all out.He could at least beat Ms.Marvel.

Im liking Ms.Marvel for this one.

^

Originally posted by beatboks
You just contradicted yourself, "base Hulk" is above class 70 by quite a bit

Post Binary (when reduced to her new "standard" levles) i was of the belief that Carols stats were raised a few notches. Where she was once a 50 tonner and went up to class 100+ as binary post binary shes supposed to be around 75 tons. Thing was originally around 70 amd I beleive is closer to 80/90 these days. Ben has a strength advantage but a small one.

Carol however has a massive speed advantage, flight and energy projection and manioulation. If BFR were on the table she wouldnt even need to touchmor get close to Ben to pick himmup as she could do so (and has) with energy constructs.

Carol should win in a good fight due to versatility


HULK's base WAS CL70 it is now CL100
Ben's used to be CL5 he is now CL100+
Carol used to be CL15 she is now CL70 (as Binary CL100+)

Ben wins 11/10



http://marvel.wikia.com/Strength_Scale

One theres no such thing as a base hulk. Forum myth, he starts at an average of whatever incarnation he is. "Base" hulk is banner. Anyway this doesn't mean a no limit fallacy is applied it just means we go by averages. So he's not delivering asteroid shattering blows at the beginning of the bout. Second Carol isn't a great match for heavy hitters, her durability is sketchy. And Ben has weathered some of the worst beatings in comics. If he's serious imo carol gets raped...again

I don't think Thing is physically able to rape anybody. Hasn't it been established he don't have and junk?

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I don't think Thing is physically able to rape anybody. Hasn't it been established he don't have and junk?

He's got big thick fingers dont he?

I don't think you can rape somebody with your fingers, that's being molested. Anyways back on topic. Ms. Marvel was having a hard time with Namora who is basically Namor light and Ben usually holds his own against Namor. So I'm backing Ben I guess.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I don't think you can rape somebody with your fingers, that's being molested.

Haha what dude

Until she owns an a lister imo she'll always be below ben. Namor is turning heel so i don't expect a good showing from him for awhile (someone mentioned Ben owning him recently)

Colossus was able to restrain Binary from beating up Rogue so I do think Ben has a strength edge over her. Just her speed and flight is what will make this a fight.

Which is why she needs a running game to win. Any kind of slug fest and she's toast.

Also, off topic but, Namor's going heel?

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Colossus was able to restrain Binary from beating up Rogue so I do think Ben has a strength edge over her. Just her speed and flight is what will make this a fight.

Same fight, Binary punched Rogue to the moon.

Originally posted by riv6672
Which is why she needs a running game to win. Any kind of slug fest and she's toast.

Also, off topic but, Namor's going heel?

Yea since Phoenix five he's gradually been going heel. Eventually he'll return but dont expect any decent feats in transition

Ms.Marvel doesn't have the strength/durability. But she has the speed,agility along with the combat skills to out match the thing.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I don't think Thing is physically able to rape anybody. Hasn't it been established he don't have and junk?

isn't that Rockslide?

I guess my username would be blondeorphanitpowe since god puts me with blonde orphans and you with people named Max.

Bullshit.

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
isn't that Rockslide? I don't think so. I recall a FF issue right before WWHulk story started and Johnny was laughing at Ben for not having any junk or something similar.

Originally posted by riv6672
Which is why she needs a running game to win. Any kind of slug fest and she's toast.

Also, off topic but, Namor's going heel?

Not really. Carol is pretty strong, she has the ability to blast the crap out of him to get distance, she has flight. and she's not too bad of a fighter. I could see her winning, or giving him one hell of a fight. She didn't seem to have much trouble against Tiger Shark, and he used to give Namor a bit of trouble.

Originally posted by Stoic
Not really. Carol is pretty strong, she has the ability to blast the crap out of him to get distance, she has flight. and she's not too bad of a fighter. I could see her winning, or giving him one hell of a fight. She didn't seem to have much trouble against Tiger Shark, and he used to give Namor a bit of trouble.
Tiger Shark's up and down, but I agree with your assessment.

There's no reason why Thing's sole advantage should be enough to win this. She has him beat in every other category and even the strength difference isn't that big tbh.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Tiger Shark's up and down, but I agree with your assessment.

There's no reason why Thing's sole advantage should be enough to win this. She has him beat in every other category and even the strength difference isn't that big tbh.

If there actually is a strength difference. Carol's pretty strong.

^

The Heartforce is too much for her.

Originally posted by Bentley
The Heartforce is too much for her.

Lol

Originally posted by Stoic
If there actually is a strength difference. Carol's pretty strong.


Ben is at the VERY minimum 2X as strong as Carol

Originally posted by Tony Stark
Ben is at the VERY minimum 2X as strong as Carol
Get out.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Get out.


A non Binary Carol is CL70 (70 tons)
Current Ben on his worst day can lift 200+ tons.

YOU get out

Originally posted by Tony Stark
A non Binary Carol is CL70 (70 tons)
Current Ben on his worst day can lift 200+ tons.

YOU get out
Ben is class 85, it's not based on lifting feats. Even ms marvel has lifted far above 100 tons.

Ben was showng pressing 85 tons in a actual comic recently and it was heavily implied it was his max iirc.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
A non Binary Carol is CL70 (70 tons)
Current Ben on his worst day can lift 200+ tons.

YOU get out Ben maxed out at 100 tons in a contest with She-Hulk and struggled at that.

Carol punts Ben into Orbit.

Don't think they made it to 100 tons.

Ben did, Shulk maxed out at less

Pretty sure they stopped at 85 tons after She-Hulk threw the towel in.

Idk I'm on Vacation right now without my longbox(es). Your talking about the FF relaunch in Marvel Now right?

It was a couple years ago.

Thing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ben is class 85, it's not based on lifting feats. Even ms marvel has lifted far above 100 tons.




Ben hasn't been CL85 for more than a decade

Originally posted by Tony Stark


Ben hasn't been CL85 for more than a decade

You're right. He's more like class 80.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Idk I'm on Vacation right now without my longbox(es). Your talking about the FF relaunch in Marvel Now right?

Yes. They didn't get to 100 tons.

Thing wanted to race to 100 tons, but She Hulk called it quits at 85 and the match ended abruptly.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Pretty sure they stopped at 85 tons after She-Hulk threw the towel in.

I didn't read the scene as 85 being her absolute best. After conceding she leaps over, throws herself onto what he was lifting and they're joking about. I'm sure if the fate of the world rested on her being able to push another 10 to 20 tons, she'd lift it. I'd take it as a marker of what she's comfortable lifting on an average day and a more reasonable assessment than the 'well over 100' that pops up on her wikis and has no basis in comics since the days of 'Jupiter Suit Jen'.

As to the actual fight here... I rate Ben as stronger and more durable in that his 'armour' would give him more protection/absorb more of the impact of her hits than her durability would protect her from his fists. Which isn't to say she couldn't land a KO because she's got the power to do it, but I think toe-to-toe, he's more likely to wear her down enough to get an opening for his Sunday punch.

Hmm they smack each other around for a while, Ben clocks her with a decent shot but as he moves in, off she flies, speeding high above, before turning and descending at speed! As she does so, Ben starts tearing up the surrounding terrain to hurl in her path but she slips through his man-made asteroid field. With her closing fast, he winds up to smash her into orbit but the ground disappears from under him from a double dose of photon blasts. He staggers back losing his balance and BOOOOM, she's rammed him! A weary Marvel steps out of the crater leaving the Thing flat on his back. Carol wins, hurrah.

Originally posted by Tony Stark


Ben hasn't been CL85 for more than a decade

Wasn't there an issue where Ben was training some Avengers and they mentioned him being Class 100?

I thought he was training some Xmen.

He was training them to fight class 100 characters.

Wasn't he the simulation?

http://img.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/marvel-heroes-lineup.jpg

Split imo. CD has the speed, flight and long range energy attack advantage, while Ben has the strength, damage soak and skill advantage.

Originally posted by carver9
Mr. Fixit isn't class 70...stop using bios and Ms. Marvel was obviously holding back against Wonderman. Originally posted by carver9
Mr. Fixit isn't class 70...stop using bios and Ms. Marvel was obviously holding back against Wonderman. i think ms marvel will win here

Originally posted by carver9
http://img.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/marvel-heroes-lineup.jpg ... It says DD maxes out at 300, scan overruled.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
... It says DD maxes out at 300, scan overruled.


This is from 20+yrs ago