Janemba vs. Mystic Gohan

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john allerdyce
Janemba:
http://s17.postimg.org/byl3x935b/imageedit_1_2839472111.gif


VS.


Mystic Gohan:
http://s17.postimg.org/dewmfe627/imageedit_3_2354717936.gif


-Fight takes place on the Supreme Kai's World.
-Both fighters are going all-out.

Who wins?

Galan007
Gohan, easily.

Janemba was Super Buu-level at most(though I personally believe he was a bit weaker)... And we saw where Super Buu stood in relation to Mystic Gohan.

naurtoisbeast
Originally posted by Galan007
Gohan, easily.

Janemba was Super Buu-level at most(though I personally believe he was a bit weaker)... And we saw where Super Buu stood in relation to Mystic Gohan. Originally posted by Galan007
Gohan, easily.

Janemba was Super Buu-level at most(though I personally believe he was a bit weaker)... And we saw where Super Buu stood in relation to Mystic Gohan. i think gohan will win here

cdtm
The thing that makes comparing Super Buu to Janemba tough to call, is Goku's fight happened in the afterlife. Goku never hit full powered SSJ3 because it wasn't meant to be used in the living world.

At SSJ3 fp, he could have one hit destroyed Original Buu, and probably Fatty. Is Super Buu THAT above them that Goku wouldn't be able to even hold his own, like against stage 2 Janemba?

carver9
Janemba was classified as a universal threat during the movie. He is above Super Buu.

Galan007
^ It was stated that if Pure Buu were left unchecked, he would eventually destroy the entire universe. ie. Pure Buu="a universal threat." Despite such a bold implication, it was later stated that SSJ3 Goku could have destroyed Pure Buu "in an instant" if he were able to reach full power. This is important because Super Buu was stated to be insurmountably beyond even Goku. So yeah, statements made pertaining to a character's potential threat-level don't impress me at all, unless we actually see this character preform the feat in question.

That said, Janemba was more powerful than SSJ3 Goku. However, the difference between them wasn't so vast as to render Goku's attacks completely ineffectual--he actually managed to put up a decent fight. Yet by Goku's own accord, Super Buu was so far beyond him that he felt it pointless to even try and fight him. So even IF we assume Janemba and Super Buu were roughly equal, using SSJ3 Goku as the common denominator between them, Gohan would still effortlessly stomp... Especially if he were fighting "all-out" as the OP states.

It would go something like this:
Mystic Gohan>>>Super Buu~SSJ3 Gotenks~/>Janemba>FPSSJ3 Goku>>>Pure Buu(the potential universal threat.)

pym-ftw
I'd give it to Janemba

He was wrecking SSJ3 Goku who I'd put on par with this Gohan

Galan007
Mystic Gohan effortlessly stomped a being who Goku confirmed was FAR more powerful than himself(Super Buu.)

Where the manga is concerned, SSJ3 Goku doesn't hold a candle next to Mystic Gohan.

pym-ftw
Tbf Goku also knew he couldn't sustain SSj3 so it's possible that factored into his statement.

Galan007
Goku was gauging his power against Super Buu's, and realized that Buu was still "far" to powerful for he and Vegeta to defeat.

It's no different than when Goku later said that he could beat Pure Buu "in an instant" at full power. Again: he was gauging his power against Pure Buu's... Same with Fat Buu.

carver9
Originally posted by Galan007
^ It was stated that if Pure Buu were left unchecked, he would eventually destroy the entire universe. ie. Pure Buu="a universal threat." Despite such a bold implication, it was later stated that SSJ3 Goku could have destroyed Pure Buu "in an instant" if he were able to reach full power. This is important because Super Buu was stated to be insurmountably beyond even Goku. So yeah, statements made pertaining to a character's potential threat-level don't impress me at all, unless we actually see this character preform the feat in question.

That said, Janemba was more powerful than SSJ3 Goku. However, the difference between them wasn't so vast as to render Goku's attacks completely ineffectual--he actually managed to put up a decent fight. Yet by Goku's own accord, Super Buu was so far beyond him that he felt it pointless to even try and fight him. So even IF we assume Janemba and Super Buu were roughly equal, using SSJ3 Goku as the common denominator between them, Gohan would still effortlessly stomp... Especially if he were fighting "all-out" as the OP states.

It would go something like this:
Mystic Gohan>>>Super Buu~SSJ3 Gotenks~/>Janemba>FPSSJ3 Goku>>>Pure Buu(the potential universal threat.)

Agreed on everything except what you said about Janemba. Janemba presence was ruining reality in different dimensions. So the fts are there. If he actually concentrated on tearing everything down, I'm pretty sure he would've succeeded.

Galan007
Originally posted by carver9
Agreed on everything except what you said about Janemba. Janemba presence was ruining reality in different dimensions. So the fts are there. If he actually concentrated on tearing everything down, I'm pretty sure he would've succeeded. Perhaps Janemba really could have warped the entire universe if he was concentrated on doing so--but that could have taken him eons for all we know. That's why a character's unseen/potential threat-level=/=a battle feat.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Galan007
Perhaps Janemba really could have warped the entire universe if he was concentrated on doing so--but that could have taken him eons for all we know. That's why a character's unseen/potential threat-level=/=a battle feat.

Well Goku seemed like it was pretty urgent, to stop Janemba from destroying the universe. The way he said it, if they didn't stop the tournament when they did, the universe would be gone.

Galan007
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Well Goku seemed like it was pretty urgent, to stop Janemba from destroying the universe. The way he said it, if they didn't stop the tournament when they did, the universe would be gone. In all fairness, Goku said pretty much the same thing about Pure Buu just before they started fighting:
Goku: "I better go full throttle...! The entire universe'll be doomed if we lose..."

Blanket speechification regarding what a character might be able to do if they aren't stopped, just doesn't cross-over into a tangible battle feat.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Galan007
In all fairness, Goku said pretty much the same thing about Pure Buu just before they started fighting:
Goku: "I better go full throttle...! The entire universe'll be doomed if we lose..."

Blanket speechification regarding what a character might be able to do if they aren't stopped, just doesn't cross-over into a tangible battle feat.

Um, you're still missing the point here.

King Kai said the same about Frieza when he fought Goku.

The only difference is that the universe would only be doomed if he lost because their was no one strong enough to oppose the villain after them.

With Janemba, he would have destroyed the universe in less time than it would take Goku to beat Pikkon, which would translate to a universe bust.

That is the context of the statements.

And it is very possible that Kid buu could have destroyed the universe. He fought on par with SSJ3 Goku, and SSJ3 Goku stomped fat Janemba, so Kid Buu > Fat Janemba. In other words, Kid Buu > Universe buster, in terms of power. Plus, Supreme Kai said he'd destroyed galaxies in an instant before.

So, if you read into the context of the statement, then Fat Janemba is a universe buster, as he would have destroyed the universe in the few moments it would have taken Goku to beat Pikkon.

Galan007
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
With Janemba, he would have destroyed the universe in less time than it would take Goku to beat Pikkon, which would translate to a universe bust.

That is the context of the statements. That is your opinion regarding the context of the statements, and you are entitled to it. My point/opinion, however, is that we have no way of confirming this to be incontrovertible fact. As far as I'm concerned, the statement made about Janemba's potential threat-level isn't any different than the statement made about Pure Buu's potential threat-level. I have no doubt that Pure Buu could have eventually destroyed the universe if no one were around to oppose him--but we just don't know how long it would take him to do so. A year? A decade? Eons? There is simply no way to know for sure, ergo it cannot be likened to a battle feat. Imo. smile

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Plus, Supreme Kai said he'd destroyed galaxies in an instant before. No, no... 1,000 times NO! That line is from a non-canon/fanmade scanlation, and is one of the worst, most horrendously inaccurate translations available. Here is the actual line from the canon VIZ manga:

Supreme Kai: "This Djinn possesses neither reason nor emotion. He exists solely to slaughter and destroy. To strike fear into the hearts of all living things... In just a few years, hundreds of planets were wiped out."

Yes, that is ALL that was canonically said. Like I've told others, though: I own the entire VIZ series, and am literally looking at the pertinent chapter/page as we speak. So if you doubt the validity of what I've posted, I suppose I can take a picture of the page and post it here... /shrug

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Galan007
That is your opinion regarding the context of the statements, and you are entitled to it. My point/opinion, however, is that we have no way of confirming this to be incontrovertible fact. As far as I'm concerned, the statement made about Janemba's potential threat-level isn't any different than the statement made about Pure Buu's potential threat-level. I have no doubt that Pure Buu could have eventually destroyed the universe if no one were around to oppose him--but we just don't know how long it would take him to do so. A year? A decade? Eons? There is simply no way to know for sure, ergo it cannot be likened to a battle feat. Imo. smile

No, no... 1,000 times NO! That line is from a non-canon/fanmade scanlation, and is one of the worst, most horrendously inaccurate translations available. Here is the actual line from the canon VIZ manga:

Supreme Kai: "This Djinn possesses neither reason nor emotion. He exists solely to slaughter and destroy. To strike fear into the hearts of all living things... In just a few years, hundreds of planets were wiped out."

Yes, that is ALL that was canonically said. Like I've told others, though: I own the entire VIZ series, and am literally looking at the pertinent chapter/page as we speak. So if you doubt the validity of what I've posted, I suppose I can take a picture of the page and post it here... /shrug

No, my opinion has nothing to do with it. Goku was urgent enough to stop the fight, because he stated that Janemba would have destroyed the universe if they didn't do so immediately. This means that he would have destroyed the universe, including them, if they didn't destroy the fight when they did. thumb up

You're right about the Buu thing, but Janemba is a different story. Plus, Anime cannon, and Manga cannon are two totally different things. In anime cannon, Garlic Jr. really existed. thumb up

Ah, ya got me there. I, of course, didn't make the scan, but I did remember seeing it a while back on here. Thought it was fishy, but I didn't know it was fan-made. However, there are still plenty of supporting feats/statements in the anime, such as Buuhan multiverse busting with a scream.

We have to use anime cannon here, because Janemba was anime movie only. Not manga. So to take manga cannon would be pointless in the first place, because he doesn't exist, therefor has no feats.

Galan007
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Ah, ya got me there. I, of course, didn't make the scan, but I did remember seeing it a while back on here. Thought it was fishy, but I didn't know it was fan-made. Yeah, it was posted frequently back in the day. I didn't realize just HOW inaccurate it was until I read the VIZ copy, though.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
We have to use anime cannon here, because Janemba was anime movie only. Not manga. We have to use anime canon for Janemba, because he only existed in Movie #12. However, we still defer to manga canon for Buu, because he is obviously a canon/manga-based character.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, it was posted frequently back in the day. I didn't realize just HOW inaccurate it was until I read the VIZ copy, though.

We have to use anime canon for Janemba, because he only existed in Movie #12. However, we still defer to manga canon for Buu, because he is obviously a canon/manga-based character.

Yeah, lol. Me neither, but it's still the most common scan I can find, so meh. :/

True, but that makes this two different threads, in that case. It's just simpler to use anime for both characters in this case, especially since Gohan also appeared in the Janemba movie, and displayed base form power capable of one-shotting final form Frieza.

Either way, my point is that Manga Mystic Gohan here, get's crushed like an infant. The only difference in the anime versions though, is that he has a better chance. He'd still get rofl-stomped though by Super Janemba, as anime Goku claimed multiple times to be stronger than Mystic Gohan, and even staved off Buutenks fairly easily.

Either way, Janemba wins. thumb up

Galan007
I disagree.

Using manga canon for the applicable characters, Janemba~Super Buu. Mystic Gohan>>>Super Buu. Mystic Gohan wins. wink

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Galan007
I disagree.

Using manga canon for the applicable characters, Janemba~Super Buu. Mystic Gohan>>>Super Buu. Mystic Gohan wins. wink

How is that so? Using manga cannon, Super Buu could galaxy bust, and that's reaching. Janemba in his weakest form could universe bust. That's all there is to it. Janemba >>>>>>>> Mystic Gohan > Super Buu.

Anime cannon, Super Buu is close to universe busting like Janemba, and Gohan is quite a bit stronger, but Janemba still beat SSJ3 Goku, who proved to be stronger than Mystic Gohan, by fighting on par with Buutenks, and fighting off Buuhan with Vegeta for a short while.

Buuhan is Gohan's power stacked ON TOP of Goten's, Trunks's, Piccolo's, AND Buu's himself. SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta staved him off briefly in the anime, and he was completely blood-lusted.

Janemba shits on Gohan, either way. thumb up

Galan007
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Janemba in his weakest form could universe bust. Again, there is no way to prove that Janemba could one-shot the universe, so that statement is not a feat.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Galan007
Again, there is no way to prove that Janemba could one-shot the universe, so that statement is not a feat.

Now you're just being obtuse.

Goku wasn't going to outright say, "Janemba is capable of destroying the universe with one attack", because that would be dumb. He said, "Good thing we stopped the fight when we did, this guy could destroy the whole universe!!", meaning that Janemba can destroy the universe in the time it would take Goku to beat Pikkon. That's basically a one-shot, counting SSJ3.

I think you're just trying to pick the statement apart too much. The creators of the movie wouldn't have made Goku say that, if they didn't want Janemba to be a universe buster without having to outright say it plainly, which would be boring.

Galan007
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Now you're just being obtuse.

Goku wasn't going to outright say, "Janemba is capable of destroying the universe with one attack", because that would be dumb. He said, "Good thing we stopped the fight when we did, this guy could destroy the whole universe!!" That quote is nearly identical to the statement Goku made about Pure Buu potentially destroying the universe:
Goku: "I better go full throttle...! The entire universe'll be doomed if we lose..."

Neither statement denotes the ability to one-shot the universe, though. It may have taken them(Janemba/Buu) eons to do so for all we know.

So yeah, since there is a lot of ambiguity behind said statements, it is silly to use them as feats... Especially when we have actual battle feats to go by. thumb up

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Galan007
That quote is nearly identical to the statement Goku made about Pure Buu potentially destroying the universe:
Goku: "I better go full throttle...! The entire universe'll be doomed if we lose..."

Neither statement denotes the ability to one-shot the universe, though. It may have taken them(Janemba/Buu) eons to do so for all we know.

So yeah, since there is a lot of ambiguity behind said statements, it is silly to use them as feats... Especially when we have actual battle feats to go by. thumb up

The quotes are in no way, shape, or form identical.

First off, Kid Buu in the anime probably could have destroyed the universe with one attack. Judging by statements and scaling, at least.

Secondly, there is wiggle room for interpretation where Kid Buu is concerned, as Goku specified nothing about busting, or a time-frame. However, there is NOT wiggle room for the Janemba statement.

What you're suggesting is the same as saying it would take eons for SSJ3 Goku to beat Pikkon. Not true.

Again, and I will say this one last time, as I don't like repeating myself dozens of times like you apparently do, from Goku's statement, Janemba could destroy the universe IN LESS TIME, than it would take for Goku to beat Pikkon. We've seen fights in DBZ can last for mere seconds, or even a fraction of that, which is the case with someone much stronger than the other contestant, i.e. Goku and Pikkon, similar to Roshi and Krillin in Dragon Ball.

Either reply with something moving past the fact that Janemba can destroy a universe in mere seconds, or I'll just chalk this one up as a win.

Galan007
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
The quotes are in no way, shape, or form identical.

First off, Kid Buu in the anime probably could have destroyed the universe with one attack. Judging by statements and scaling, at least.

Secondly, there is wiggle room for interpretation where Kid Buu is concerned, as Goku specified nothing about busting, or a time-frame. However, there is NOT wiggle room for the Janemba statement.

What you're suggesting is the same as saying it would take eons for SSJ3 Goku to beat Pikkon. Not true.

Again, and I will say this one last time, as I don't like repeating myself dozens of times like you apparently do, from Goku's statement, Janemba could destroy the universe IN LESS TIME, than it would take for Goku to beat Pikkon. We've seen fights in DBZ can last for mere seconds, or even a fraction of that, which is the case with someone much stronger than the other contestant, i.e. Goku and Pikkon, similar to Roshi and Krillin in Dragon Ball.

Either reply with something moving past the fact that Janemba can destroy a universe in mere seconds, or I'll just chalk this one up as a win. The statements are nearly identical, and do NOT denote a time frame in which the feat(s) could have been accomplished--ergo they're ambiguous, at best. You're just digging deep here because you are trying to sell the notion that DBZ characters are universe-busters in other threads. It's silly and illogical, though... Especially in this case.

Lol, chalk it up to a 'win' if such childish antics help you sleep better. I could care less.


You may have the last word. I wash my hands of this idiocy. thumb up

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Galan007
You are wrong, DBZ's ain't universe levels, derpdederpderpderp, lulz *same shit I been sayin' dis whole time*, Even though you done proven me wrong, I'z iz right biotch, so Imma go wash muh hands!

Also, Imma admit you won, so I don't have to be embarrassed no more, cuz my butt hurts.

^ This is basically what I saw your dribble as. thumb up

And fyi, I'll sleep like a baby tonight. wink

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