Obi wan Kenobi vs Count Dooku (sabers only)

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WildBantha88
Who wins?

ILS
why

Nephthys
Bane wins.

WildBantha88
Originally posted by ILS
why why not?

Marco1907
Dooku would win against Kenobi in a good fight due to superior fencing technique, but still they are comparable in general ;

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/erkan12/blog/obi-wan-or-dooku-who-is-the-greater-swordsman/101089/

Nephthys
Remember that game where Obi-Wan kicks Dooku's ass? And everyone here freaked out over it? That was cool.

Marco1907
Lol. I need to see that.

@neph is this the game you've mentioned ?

7h_wnWlk518

''You are lucky that Qui-Gon is not here to see you'' I like this too.
Still it's ''game mechanic'' though.

Angelalex242
Makashi beats Soresu.

Nephthys
7h_wnWlk518

ILS
Looks like Kenobi is second only to Yoda now, b1tches.

Nephthys
Lol. Ant made a compelling case for it to be non-canon though.

Marco1907
@ILS

Game mechanic. It's not different than Galen beating Vader. Or Revan's feats.

ILS
Technically the cutscenes aren't gameplay mechanics, but yeah, SW games based on movie characters are rarely canon.

DARTH POWER
Those are cut scenes though... The fight itself was game mechanics but the result seemed to be a cut scene.

So what's the argument for it being non-canon? Except that it's completely inconsistent with all there other fights?

Nephthys
It contradicts other versions of that battle or something. Obi-Wan and Dooku weren't on that ship, there was no fight, other stuff happened differently etc.

ILS
Is there a TCW novel of the events that happened during that time? Or something? Might be a similar case to the fight scenes in the RotS game or TFU.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Nephthys
It contradicts other versions of that battle or something. Obi-Wan and Dooku weren't on that ship, there was no fight, other stuff happened differently etc.


Oh ok. I can chillax then laughing out loud

Nephthys
Originally posted by ILS
Is there a TCW novel of the events that happened during that time? Or something? Might be a similar case to the fight scenes in the RotS game or TFU.

I don't keep up with CW material, it's not my bag. Google the Malevolence.

Marco1907
Do you like game mechanics cutscenes now fellas ?

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y418/karasakal_teach/dooku%20vs%20obi-wan%20game_zpsbfya3ag1.gif

ILS
rofl

NewGuy01
Dooku in a good/close fight.

carthage
Both of the fighters kill Bane using blasters, and fight on top of his corpse until Kenobi loses.

WildBantha88
I feel like the support of Dooku is al based on his crazy hype.

Kenobi was only ever beaten by Dooku via the Force (excluding Aotc) And Kenobi was also a stalemate for Anakin, the very person who killed Dooku.

I see there being no reason why Kenobi couldn't take the most minute of minorities.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by WildBantha88


Kenobi was only ever beaten by Dooku via the Force (excluding Aotc)

He was beating the hell outta Kenobi on Oba Diah, without using any Tk.


Originally posted by WildBantha88

And Kenobi was also a stalemate for Anakin, the very person who killed Dooku.
I see there being no reason why Kenobi couldn't take the most minute of minorities.

I think Kenobi could stalemate a few fights in pure Sabers tbf, as long as he fights purely defensively (sticking to his strengths).

But I think once you add Tk, even if you equalize Kenobi and Dooku's Tk, then Dooku has the solid edge.

Dooku just seems like a more skilled all out(Combining Sabers+TK) combatant than either Skywalker or Kenobi.

WildBantha88
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He was beating the hell outta Kenobi on Oba Diah, without using any Tk.




I think Kenobi could stalemate a few fights in pure Sabers tbf, as long as he fights purely defensively (sticking to his strengths). on the invisible hand, Dooku had yo resort to his Force powers to take out Kenobi. Then add Kenobi's feats of stalemating both Anakin and Darth Maul, both on the same level of Dooku.

Really I see Kenobi pulling this off

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by WildBantha88
on the invisible hand, Dooku had yo resort to his Force powers to take out Kenobi.


I never understood this logic, that if someone takes an opponent out with the Force, then they HAD TO DO THAT.

It's like saying Dooku kicked Skywalker therefore he HAD TO DO THAT and couldn't do anything else like Force Push him.

In any case he was fighting off both Skywalker and Kenobi together, so the point is irrelevant. Especially when you look at their fight on Oba Diah.


Originally posted by WildBantha88
Then add Kenobi's feats of stalemating both Anakin and Darth Maul, both on the same level of Dooku.


I'd honestly say Dooku's a more skilled All Out combatant than any of those guys, and certainly has the best Force Powers.

Just Kenobi being Younger with better stamina, means he can carry a long drawn out pure Saber fight against a Powerhouse like Skywalker better than Dooku probably could.

NewGuy01
Then there's all of the factors that can be pointed out that went into the RotS final duel, too.

McP
No, Obi-Wan is equal to Dooku or Mace only in Stovers' ****ed imagination.

Kenobi Was always, and in every source equal o people like Ventress. Perhaps a it above...
Still he's FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR froim being Dooku's equal or Mace. He's also FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR from being as good as Stover would want to see him.

Dooku would trashe Kenobi in a 1v1 saber duel. In al-out duel Kenobi wont be even able to win 1 of 100 duels.

McP
Originally posted by McP
No, Obi-Wan is equal to Dooku or Mace only in Stovers' ****ed imagination.

Kenobi Was always, and in every source equal o people like Ventress. Perhaps a it above...
Still he's FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR froim being Dooku's equal or Mace. He's also FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR from being as good as Stover would want to see him.

Dooku would trashe Kenobi in a 1v1 saber duel. In al-out duel Kenobi wont be even able to win 1 of 100 duels.

Obi-Wan as far better stamina overall. Dooku would have much better stamina against Kenobi though

Lord Stark
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Those are cut scenes though... The fight itself was game mechanics but the result seemed to be a cut scene.

So what's the argument for it being non-canon? Except that it's completely inconsistent with all there other fights?

As I stated in previous threads its impossible for that to be the case because we see Kenobi on the bridge of his destroyer when they get in system and there is no Dooku, additionally he's at the Separatist rendezvous point communicating with Grievous.

Dooku thrashes Kenobi

WildBantha88
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I never understood this logic, that if someone takes an opponent out with the Force, then they HAD TO DO THAT.

It's like saying Dooku kicked Skywalker therefore he HAD TO DO THAT and couldn't do anything else like Force Push him.

In any case he was fighting off both Skywalker and Kenobi together, so the point is irrelevant. Especially when you look at their fight on Oba Diah.



I'd honestly say Dooku's a more skilled All Out combatant than any of those guys, and certainly has the best Force Powers.

Just Kenobi being Younger with better stamina, means he can carry a long drawn out pure Saber fight against a Powerhouse like Skywalker better than Dooku probably could. it doesn't mean that he NEEDED to but it does mean that Kenobi drove Count Dooku who is extremely arrogant and proud of his dueling skills, to dream it necessary to use the Force against him.

Being a better All out fighter has nothing to do with this debate as we are only debating sabers. Maul and Anakin, weather you believe them to be better than Dooku or not, are so closely compatible to Dooku in lightsaber skill that the difference is negligible.

Now stamina is a very important factor in this fight. Because of how closely these two are matched it may very well become a war of attrition. Kenobi is also more durable than Dooku and is, overall, in much better shape

DarthAnt66
You are ready, my friend: http://english.arts.cornell.edu/graduate/phd/

ILS
Lol

NewGuy01
Dooku is at least as fast as Kenobi is- likely faster. He has never had any issue with his strength, or Grievous's for that matter. Obi-Wan has greater stamina than he, but in turn Dooku is far more efficient.

This really ultimately comes down to skill level, and Dooku is the greater, if not by much. Even assuming that they are equals skill-wise as well, Kenobi has never fared well against Makashi's ultra-precision and complex footwork; he is comparatively clumsy, as Dooku often points out.

I can see Obi-Wan taking wins, but I don't think he's taking a majority, nor a split-he's not quite there yet.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Lord Stark
As I stated in previous threads its impossible for that to be the case because we see Kenobi on the bridge of his destroyer when they get in system and there is no Dooku, additionally he's at the Separatist rendezvous point communicating with Grievous.



What was this supposed to happen during an episode of Clone Wars? Which episode was it?

Marco1907
Originally posted by Marco1907
Do you like game mechanics cutscenes now fellas ?

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y418/karasakal_teach/dooku%20vs%20obi-wan%20game_zpsbfya3ag1.gif

I think Lord Stark needs to see this.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by WildBantha88
it doesn't mean that he NEEDED to but it does mean that Kenobi drove Count Dooku who is extremely arrogant and proud of his dueling skills, to dream it necessary to use the Force against him.


He also took Ventress out with the Force. Twice no less. Does that mean she also "pushed" or "drove" Dooku?

So really Kenobi's not actually pushed Dooku anymore than Ventress has.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Being a better All out fighter has nothing to do with this debate as we are only debating sabers. Maul and Anakin, weather you believe them to be better than Dooku or not, are so closely compatible to Dooku in lightsaber skill that the difference is negligible.

Point being Dooku's not just more Powerful than Kenobi, but he's more skilled as an all out combatant. Force pushes are a standard part of a Saber fight. As standard as kicks are. Which is why I prefer to discuss "Sabers Only" with TK being equalized on both sides, instead of being completely ignored. I mean with no Tk at all if one combatant just drops his Saber, he's got a lot less chance of picking it up again, so it changes the fight in a lot of ways.

In any case even saying "No Tk allowed at all" Dooku's Force enhanced Kicks would serve him very well in a Pure Sabers fight with Kenobi. So I see Kenobi doing very well, but Dooku clearly has the upper hand Imho.




Originally posted by WildBantha88
Now stamina is a very important factor in this fight. Because of how closely these two are matched it may very well become a war of attrition. Kenobi is also more durable than Dooku and is, overall, in much better shape


Yeah except Kenobi's not going to tax Dooku's stamina even close to the way Skywalker does with his immense raw power. Kenobi can take a lot more than he can dish out.

Chances are Dooku will start winning long before stamina becomes an issue with his highly effective Force enhanced physical attacks.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Marco1907
I think Lord Stark needs to see this.


He's talking about that, and saying the events are directly contradicted by an episode or something.

Marco1907
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He's talking about that, and saying the events are directly contradicted by an episode or something.

Winter is coming.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He's talking about that, and saying the events are directly contradicted by an episode or something.
They are directly contradicted by Shadow of Malevolence.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
They are directly contradicted by Shadow of Malevolence.


Ah I see.

Aurbere
Count Dooku has been consistently shown to be superior to Kenobi in their encounters. Kenobi's only real chance that I can see is if he can play entirely defensively to wear Dooku out, but I can see the arguments for why that might not work.

I'll give it to Dooku for a majority.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Lord Stark
As I stated in previous threads its impossible for that to be the case because we see Kenobi on the bridge of his destroyer when they get in system and there is no Dooku, additionally he's at the Separatist rendezvous point communicating with Grievous.

Dooku thrashes Kenobi

Wait, but it seems as if Dooku is about to escape the Clones at the end of that cut scene.

So isn't it possible Dooku escaped before Kenobi's ship gets into the system and then went to the Separatist rendezvous point?

Of course it would be beyond stupidity for Kenobi to leave a Captured Dooku alone with some clones. Pretty sure capturing Dooku would be more important than any Ion Canon Lol

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol. Ant made a compelling case for it to be non-canon though.

While compelling, it's still canon

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He's talking about that, and saying the events are directly contradicted by an episode or something.

That's totally irrelevant to the discussion whether he thinks it contradicts this or that. This happens in games...tv series.. books etc.. That doesn't make them non canon. Besides, him not understanding how he could be there isn't a reason for it to be thrown out. That is why we throw stuff out because ohhh I thought he was here not there... Sorry... it stands.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
They are directly contradicted by Shadow of Malevolence.


That's your opinion.. luckily you don't decide on what's canon or not.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
While compelling, it's still canon


Oh great. Look what you've done Neph. KT is guaranteed going to cling to that in future debates.

Even though he denied Dooku battling Mace and Kenobi together because it was in a similar type video game. Except one that clearly didn't contradict any episode.

The_Tempest
Forgive the spoilers, folks, but Thanosi is pro-Kenobi in a big way. The thought of him besting Dooku is probably inducing the mother of all boners.

KuRuPT Thanosi
In fact, I have a boner as we speak after seeing that video smile

Canon is canon after all smile

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Oh great. Look what you've done Neph. KT is guaranteed going to cling to that in future debates.

Even though he denied Dooku battling Mace and Kenobi together because it was in a similar type video game. Except one that clearly didn't contradict any episode. I never denied anything about that scene at all. I never said it wasn't canon. Good try though DP bud

The_Tempest
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
In fact, I have a boner as we speak after seeing that video smile

Canon is canon after all smile

?v=9pI8IkWa3LQ

Indeed it is. laughing out loud

Dooku stomps tbh.

Nephthys
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Oh great. Look what you've done Neph. KT is guaranteed going to cling to that in future debates.

Even though he denied Dooku battling Mace and Kenobi together because it was in a similar type video game. Except one that clearly didn't contradict any episode.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/eevl.gif

KuRuPT Thanosi
Stomp.. Nah... They would all be close fights.. Dooku probably wins a slight majority though... even though I hate to say it.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Stomp.. Nah... They would all be close fights.. Dooku probably wins a slight majority though... even though I hate to say it.

Bro, c'mon. The Count took Anakin and Obi-Wan on there quite handily without Force pwning either one. Admit it, Dooku takes Obi-Wan to school.


{That's a weird phrase, innit?}

ILS
Dooku would smack Kenobi's naughty bum with his ruler in the hallway that's how bad he gets schooled

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I never denied anything about that scene at all. I never said it wasn't canon. Good try though DP bud


Urm, yes actually you did. I showed you that once in a Dooku vs Mace debate, and you clearly layed into me for showing you video game cut scenes as proof.

McP
Kenobi might be near-equal to Dooku only in KT's own little word.

Marco1907
Anyways, my point still stands. Dooku would win against Kenobi due to being more skilled at fencing, but Kenobi is much better than Dooku ever was against physical monsters such as Anakin / Vader, Maul and Savage.

They are comparable in general, but Dooku should win against Kenobi due to his private advantage over Kenobi.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Marco1907
but Kenobi is much better than Dooku ever was against physical monsters such as Anakin / Vader, Maul and Savage.




Dooku can beat those guys, it's just he needs a more open environment. He'll struggle against them in close quarters. He also needs to face them 1 on 1 preferably:

"His own elegant Makashi simply did not generate the kinetic power to meet Djem So head-to-head. Especially not while defending against a second attacker."

He'd definitely lose against Maul and Opress together for example(IMO). Especially in that cave where Kenobi faced them. Even though Kenobi was able to survive (and even stalemate/win?) that encounter.

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