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This is depowered Cain. Basically the version who was on the X-Men, Excalibur, and Thunderbolts. Fight take place at Daytona beach.

Does he have that good of feats depowered?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Does he have that good of feats depowered? Yea he does. Beating an amped Rhino, slugging it out with Sasquatch, fighting Thor & Luke Cage at the same time, holding his own very well against Hyperion.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Yea he does. Beating an amped Rhino, slugging it out with Sasquatch, fighting Thor & Luke Cage at the same time, holding his own very well against Hyperion.

Sounds like he still pretty uber even de powered. I miss jugg comics.

Cain will be hurting by the end of this, but he has a good chance to take it. Not sure how many out of 10 as Namor will definitely win as well, but every win he gets Cain is gonna make him work his ass off for.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Sounds like he still pretty uber even de powered. I miss jugg comics. He fought WWHulk as well, he got kayoed but he landed a good shot and took a few before he went down.

Juggernaut wins.

Namor. He's stronger than this version of Juggernaut, faster, and he can fly. Also, the location of the fight doesn't favor Juggernaut, at all.

Juggernaut can take a beating (proven when King Hyperion was pounding the sh|t out of him) but I don't think he can put Namor down.

Hyperion>> Namor.

He did really well against King Hyperion (who lost his HF for some reason...), but overall Id give this one to Namor.

Good fight but I'm giving this to Namor.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
He fought WWHulk as well, he got kayoed but he landed a good shot and took a few before he went down.

He didn't take many hits though, but I think he was at his weakest then, even weaker than during Chuck Austen's run.

It depends. Namor would probably do OK to begin with, because Jugg's reduced strength is closer to Namor's level, and Namor is more maneuverable. But Juggs can still take quite a beating, and even in water Namor still has to eat eventually surely - I don't think he just lives on seawater.

If Juggs holds on, and I'm not sure if Namor can really put him down completely for the win, Namor will eventually tire and weaken enough to lose. If Juggs is in any condition to take advantage.

Maybe still a slight edge to Juggs but it's a tough call.

Originally posted by krisblaze
He didn't take many hits though, but I think he was at his weakest then, even weaker than during Chuck Austen's run. He took 3 consecutive shots iirc when Thing, Doc Samson, She hulk, Ares all went down in one.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
He took 3 consecutive shots iirc when Thing, Doc Samson, She hulk, Ares all went down in one.

Hulk was decidedly less angry when he fought the x-men imo.

Even so, I already consider Samson, She-Hulk and Ares below depowered Juggernaut in durability.

So imo that's not necessarily a testament to Juggernaut's durability at the time. Especially considering that the x-men mini had a different writer than the madnman Pak

Juggernaut almost died when a building collapsed on him IIRC in that Era. Wrecking crew beat the shit out of him too.

Cos we go by low showing only right?

Originally posted by krisblaze
Hulk was decidedly less angry when he fought the x-men imo.

Even so, I already consider Samson, She-Hulk and Ares below depowered Juggernaut in durability.

So imo that's not necessarily a testament to Juggernaut's durability at the time. Especially considering that the x-men mini had a different writer than the madnman Pak Not sure I agree with that. Right before that he beat Wolverine worse than he's ever had, he scrambled his brains LOL.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Juggernaut almost died when a building collapsed on him IIRC in that Era. Wrecking crew beat the shit out of him too.

Are you thinking of the Lobo incident?

Because there seemed to be significant explosives in play.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Cos we go by low showing only right? That's how it works.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Not sure I agree with that. Right before that he beat Wolverine worse than he's ever had, he scrambled his brains LOL.

hmm, consider this though.

he's never hit Wolverine more than once or twice in a row in their other fights. I think it's more a case of Wolverine being punched far away, coming back and then being punched away again, or some shit like that

Originally posted by krisblaze
hmm, consider this though.

he's never hit Wolverine more than once or twice in a row in their other fights. I think it's more a case of Wolverine being punched far away, coming back and then being punched away again, or some shit like that Consider this, he physically hurt several members of the X-Men that all needed medical attention. Not sure Hulk did that to any of the other teams he fought.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
That's how it works. unless it's superman or somehow relates to him.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Cos we go by low showing only right?
Yeah, that's exactly what I said.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Consider this, he physically hurt several members of the X-Men that all needed medical attention. Not sure Hulk did that to any of the other teams he fought.

Wut, he did that to all the teams he fought in WWH

Point is that he's never hit Wolverine several times consecutively, and in the end Wolverine was just fine.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Are you thinking of the Lobo incident?

Because there seemed to be significant explosives in play.
Yeah, the same incidence. I forgot about the explosives.

What about wrecking crew?

Originally posted by krisblaze
Wut, he did that to all the teams he fought in WWH

Point is that he's never hit Wolverine several times consecutively, and in the end Wolverine was just fine.
Savage hulk has oneshotted Logan with a glancing blow.

Professor did the same with a punch.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, the same incidence. I forgot about the explosives.

What about wrecking crew?

What about 'em though, they should be able to kill anybody in that class.

I'd give the wrecking crew a phucking stomp over Namor.

Juggernaut willingly took the beating against the wrecking Crew. It's not like they walked in and just beat him up with him fighting back.

Originally posted by krisblaze
What about 'em though, they should be able to kill anybody in that class.

I'd give the wrecking crew a phucking stomp over Namor.
Really? I don't think so.

The ****ing wrecking crew? Under austen ****ing she hulk was manhandling them.

Wrecking crew are a very powerful team. Even wrecker has one-shot savage hulk (even when he was power sharing). They do job a lot, but in reality they actually a force to be reckoned with.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t524655.html

A power sharing Wrecker one-shotted the Hulk?

Originally posted by juggernaut74
A power sharing Wrecker one-shotted the Hulk?

Defenders #19 :
1. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/Defenders_019_04.jpg
2. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/Defenders_019_05.jpg

Originally posted by -K-M-
Defenders #19 :
1. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/Defenders_019_04.jpg
2. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/Defenders_019_05.jpg Nice. That looks familiar I think I saw that one a while back.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Really? I don't think so.

The ****ing wrecking crew? Under austen ****ing she hulk was manhandling them.
Didn't Captain America and Iron Fist school them too?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Wrecking crew are a very powerful team. Even wrecker has one-shot savage hulk (even when he was power sharing). They do job a lot, but in reality they actually a force to be reckoned with.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t524655.html
Yeah in there first appearance as a team. Nowadays spiderman beats them up. Originally posted by zopzop
Didn't Captain America and Iron Fist school them too?
Hawkeye took them out under Austen.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah in there first appearance as a team. Nowadays spiderman beats them up.
Hawkeye took them out under Austen.

And? Actually more often then not they school spider-man

Sure as I mentioned they do have a lot of low showings. But they do have a lot of high showings too. Thats what makes them hard to peg. They also beat Hawkeye so badly he was unconscious for an entire issue. Their all over the map.

Juggernaut

He was. In the encyclopedia and handbook entry had him as class 100

Interesting to note just read the new avengers handbook that came out recently and wrecker had an entry in it. They literally said he is all over the place powerwise and tired to explain the contradicting low showings.

Going with Namor.

Originally posted by -K-M-
He was. In the encyclopedia and handbook entry had him as class 100

Interesting to note just read the new avengers handbook that came out recently and wrecker had an entry in it. They literally said he is all over the place powerwise and tired to explain the contradicting low showings. What was his strength level at?

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Juggernaut willingly took the beating against the wrecking Crew. It's not like they walked in and just beat him up with him fighting back.

How do you figure that Juggernaut let the Wrecking Crew beat him up?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
How do you figure that Juggernaut let the Wrecking Crew beat him up? That whole issue he was depressed and he just laid there and took the beating. I think he threw one punch?

Depressed doesn't mean that you want to get your ass kicked. I recall Wrecker even stating that there was a time when he would've floored all of them at once. The issue starts with him already on the wrong end of a beating. Just because he lost to them doesn't mean that he wanted it to happen.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
What was his strength level at?

Said at times was low as class 2 to class 75 I believe.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Depressed doesn't mean that you want to get your ass kicked. I recall Wrecker even stating that there was a time when he would've floored all of them at once. The issue starts with him already on the wrong end of a beating. Just because he lost to them doesn't mean that he wanted it to happen. So you're saying that issue is viable evidence showing the Wrecking Crew beating Juggernaut?

Originally posted by juggernaut74
So you're saying that issue is viable evidence showing the Wrecking Crew beating Juggernaut?

I'm saying that in that issue, The Wrecking Crew beat Juggernaut, most of it was done off of the page but there's nothing that warrants that he wanted it or that he didn't want to fight back from the start if he ever didn't want to fight back at all. It's been a while since I've read that, but I don't remember Cain at all flat out refusing to fight back or saying how he deserves this. If anything, I thought it was that beating that encouraged him to seek out answers about his power and how to get them fully back.

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Juggernaut
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New Excalibur #13 :

1. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_02.jpg
2. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_03-04.jpg
3. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_05.jpg
4. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_06.jpg
5. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_07.jpg
6. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_08.jpg
7. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_09.jpg

Cytorrak was trolling Cain. He could have given him more gas or less, so for all we know Cain in his weakened state could be a class 20 to 100. I'd give the nod to the guy with a static level of optimal strength ( as far as forum rules go). Namor would probably win this. Not a stomp, but he should win eventually.

Originally posted by -K-M-
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Juggernaut
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New Excalibur #13 :

1. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_02.jpg
2. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_03-04.jpg
3. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_05.jpg
4. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_06.jpg
5. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_07.jpg
6. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_08.jpg
7. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_09.jpg

After rereading those scans I can honestly say that I don't believe that Cain simply allowed the beating to happen because of depression, especially since there is no narration box giving us an update on his mental state. They slightly imply that he attempted to put up a fight before the issue started and Cain's defiance towards the end also supports that he didn't want to get beat up or lose to them.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
After rereading those scans I can honestly say that I don't believe that Cain simply allowed the beating to happen because of depression, especially since there is no narration box giving us an update on his mental state. They slightly imply that he attempted to put up a fight before the issue started and Cain's defiance towards the end also supports that he didn't want to get beat up or lose to them. So you're saying you would use those scans supporting the Wrecking Crew being able to beat a depowered Juggernaut?

Yes, The Wrecking Crew are no slouches, they aren't weak at all. To be honest, they kind of jobbed to the rest of Excalibur in that same issue. They were comically tooled.

Considering the Wrecker one-shotted the Hulk Cain hung in there then.

Yes, it was a decent display of good durability to stay conscious after all of that, including a direct blow from his crowbar.

Wrecker blind sided Colossus also with one shot. Wrecker was in a "OH SH!T THIS F#CKER OS GONNA KILL US" mind set though so he may have put more stroke in the blow.

Juggernuat

Originally posted by -K-M-
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Juggernaut
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New Excalibur #13 :

1. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_02.jpg
2. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_03-04.jpg
3. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_05.jpg
4. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_06.jpg
5. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_07.jpg
6. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_08.jpg
7. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/NewExcalibur13_09.jpg

That beating would have messed Namor up.

We talked about this earlier, but I got a scan of the latest handbook entry for Wrecker and confirms his inconsistency. His highest was definitely above class 75, but small steps I suppose.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/wreckerstats_zpsc8fcab03.png

Does Wrecker himself have any strength feats that aren't crowbar related?

if namor throws juggs into the ocean or lake and fights him then he wins.... otherwise hes a goner

Originally posted by -K-M-
Not really as he is never without the crowbar What Juggernaut feat do you think is more impressive, Juggies fight with Sasquatch or Hyperion?

Originally posted by juggernaut74
What Juggernaut feat do you think is more impressive, Juggies fight with Sasquatch or Hyperion?

Hyperion.

The Alpha Flight issue was written terribly. Snowbird can't be in the states, but she was and was beaten by Angel....Angel! and off-panel. Northstar beat Guardian by ripping apart his suit as for some reason he told Northstar how to do it? Errrrr ok also did they forget he has shields? He also has super speed so he could have returned, but they said he couldn't just 5 miles away. Vindicator the other team leader literally did nothing but stand there and let Iceman freeze her suit even though her powers are geothermal oh and she has shields too. Puck was also taken out from behind like nothing. Also their character portrayals are nothing like that, they were literally acting like villains. If anything it's surprising Sasquatch had a good showing as the writer clearly didn't care to much about Alpha Flight and out of everyone he was the only one that basically wasn't taken out instantly. Ridic.

The Juggernaut/Sasquatch fight was one of the cooler fights in comics I've seen. Good action and art.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
The Juggernaut/Sasquatch fight was one of the cooler fights in comics I've seen. Good action and art.

Nice art doesn't take away it was terribly written and Alpha Flight were only added to make the X-Men look good. Writer ignored their history and powers and were treated as basically fodder. As I said it's shocking Sasquatch was given any kind of respect.

Sasquatch was given a lot of repesct in that issue.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Sasquatch was given a lot of repesct in that issue.

Not really, his character was brutalized too.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Not really, his character was brutalized too. You thougt he looked bad in that fight?

Cain is kind of hard to measure these days, he seems to go up, and down as if he's been placed completely at Cytorrak's mercy. In one scene he's struggling against Colossus' max weight, and in the next, he's taking on King Hyperion. This leads me to believe that on a bad day, Namor would beat him down with ease, and on a good day, they'd probably break even.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
You thougt he looked bad in that fight?

It was meh, big complaint is the "wait man" speech. That was ridic. After he came back then it was a decent fight.

Sasquatch blasted his helmet off with a punch and shattered a bunch of windows iirc.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Sasquatch blasted his helmet off with a punch and shattered a bunch of windows iirc.

but then told him to stop? After they were clearly in a fight? Out of character and ridic.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Nice art doesn't take away it was terribly written and Alpha Flight were only added to make the X-Men look good. Writer ignored their history and powers and were treated as basically fodder. As I said it's shocking Sasquatch was given any kind of respect.

One of Chuck Austen's not-so-fine moments...

That and when Angel ****ed Husk in front of her mom.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Not sure I agree with that. Right before that he beat Wolverine worse than he's ever had, he scrambled his brains LOL.

Which made.absolutely no sense considering his entire career

Bump.

depowered juggernaut is too much for namor to handle. while depowered he still rocked hyperion, sasquatch, rhino and had very good strength feats overall.

Originally posted by Dareangel
depowered juggernaut is too much for namor to handle. while depowered he still rocked hyperion, sasquatch, rhino and had very good strength feats overall.

He was also beaten up by the Wrecking Crew. At that time he had no static level and was at Cyt's mercy.

Originally posted by Dareangel
depowered juggernaut is too much for namor to handle. while depowered he still rocked hyperion, sasquatch, rhino and had very good strength feats overall. Yea, he was still borderline Class 100.Originally posted by Stoic
He was also beaten up by the Wrecking Crew. At that time he had no static level and was at Cyt's mercy. That's true, but the Crew has some good feats to their name as well.

Originally posted by Stoic
He was also beaten up by the Wrecking Crew. At that time he had no static level and was at Cyt's mercy.

but you forgot something. it was stated the more time pass by, the weaker he gets. when he was beat up by wrecking crew, a lot of time passed since he lost his powers. he was greatly depowered by then already. i guess the thread starter doesnt mean depowered juggernaut at his very weakest but during his average showings as depowered juggernaut.

What issue was this stated in? It's been a few years since I thought about this.

if i remember correctly in the same issue. the wrecking crew were shocked themselves at how easily they defeated him. it was stated that the more time pass by, the more juggernaut is getting disconnected from cyttorak and its powers.

Could be.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Yea, he was still borderline Class 100. That's true, but the Crew has some good feats to their name as well.

Ben beat the Crew up. The one that took Cain down weren't amped, he was just weak, and ran at about class 30-40 if that.

Originally posted by Dareangel
but you forgot something. it was stated the more time pass by, the weaker he gets. when he was beat up by wrecking crew, a lot of time passed since he lost his powers. he was greatly depowered by then already. i guess the thread starter doesnt mean depowered juggernaut at his very weakest but during his average showings as depowered juggernaut.

I know. Cain would beat Namor eventually, but not a weakened one. Even when he began losing power he ran under Namor's top strength. I recall him struggling with Colossus' top weight.

Originally posted by Stoic
Ben beat the Crew up. The one that took Cain down weren't amped, he was just weak, and ran at about class 30-40 if that. Depowered Juggernaut was a borderline Class 100.Originally posted by Stoic
I know. Cain would beat Namor eventually, but not a weakened one. Even when he began losing power he ran under Namor's top strength. I recall him struggling with Colossus' top weight. This version of Juggernaut beat up Sasquatch and an amped Rhino.

Class 40 my ass.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Depowered Juggernaut was a borderline Class 100. This version of Juggernaut beat up Sasquatch and an amped Rhino.

Class 40 my ass.

Borderline class 100 when he began losing power yes. But by the time he had that run in with the Crew, he had fallen below class 60 for sure. Even the weakest members were able to beat on him. Which brings us back to him not having a static level of strength, and that his strength actually tended to dwindle as time progressed.

I've never been too impressed with Sasquatch tbh. He's in Ben's weight class normally. This shows his steady decrease from to beginning up until the X-Men vs WW Hulk crossover where he was given enough power to challenge Hulk.

Luke Cage one shot the Rhino's face into the pavement. Not impressed.

Originally posted by Stoic
Borderline class 100 when he began losing power yes. But by the time he had that run in with the Crew, he had fallen below class 60 for sure. Even the weakest members were able to beat on him. Which brings us back to him not having a static level of strength, and that his strength actually tended to dwindle as time progressed.

I've never been too impressed with Sasquatch tbh. He's in Ben's weight class normally. This shows his steady decrease from to beginning up until the X-Men vs WW Hulk crossover where he was given enough power to challenge Hulk.

Luke Cage one shot the Rhino's face into the pavement. Not impressed. I think maybe you're lowballing the Crew.

Never been impressed by Sasquatch? The dude is strong enough to throw a massive airlplane and lift a huge ship. He also held his own against Hulk and teen Colossus(Until he started trying).

Cain had a descent showing against WWHulk, he landed some good shots and took a few before going down. He did better than alot of powerhouses who were getting one-shotted.

I can't see a Class 40 doing this.

http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/hulk-vs-juggernaut.jpg