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How does Kenobi fare?

Badly.

^Care to explain.

Maul>Ventress>Fisto>TCD Kenobi>AotC Kenobi

:P

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Maul>Ventress>Fisto>TCD Kenobi>AotC Kenobi

:P Pretty much, yeah.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Maul>Ventress>Fisto>TCD Kenobi>AotC Kenobi

:P

So you think that a little bit of Force Rage give Kenobi a greater power up than 10 years of training + Mastery of a new lightsaber form?

Eh. Kenobi's Soresu is certainly enough to cut Maul's Saberstaff in half. Can he then finish the fight?

...Possibly.

Wait.. so Lord Stark was complaining about "overrated Jedi masters" yesterday and then proceeds to pull this stunt? Jeez.

Originally posted by ILS
Wait.. so Lord Stark was complaining about "overrated Jedi masters" yesterday and then proceeds to pull this stunt? Jeez.

Neither of those things have anything to do with one another.

Vodo-Siosk Baas is overrated according to you, the most overrated Jedi Master to quote.

Obi-Wan Kenobi is a Jedi Master, and by thinking AotC Kenobi vs Maul is a fair fight you are overrating Kenobi very heavily.

See the correlation?

Originally posted by ILS
Vodo-Siosk Baas is overrated according to you, the most overrated Jedi Master to quote.

Obi-Wan Kenobi is a Jedi Master, and by thinking AotC Kenobi vs Maul is a fair fight you are overrating Kenobi very heavily.

See the correlation?

No because AOTCs Kenobi is a Knight. Nice try though.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
So you think that a little bit of Force Rage give Kenobi a greater power up than 10 years of training + Mastery of a new lightsaber form?

Wasn't "some force rage" all Maul had to even the odds when he'd not fought in 10+ years in TCW? Yet he comes back and consistently stalemates TCW Kenobi. And it was late into TCW as well.

I'd personally say AOTC Kenobi wasn't even TPM Qui-Gon's equal yet.

I understand your logic about it being 10 years passing, but there's just no proof or feats to show Kenobi vastly improved in those 10 years. He may have just been using those 10 years to focus more on the philosophical side of being a Jedi, in his skills as a negotiator and on his mentoring of Anakin.

And then when the war began dedicated most his training to combat.

I'm sure there was a moderate improvement in combat prowess for Kenobi between TPM and AOTC, but his real focus on combat came after AOTC Imho.

Force rage has greater effects on the Jedi since they would never use it and it is kind of forbidden, on the other hand Sith always uses force rage / dark rage and that is the reason they are usually more powerful than the Jedi.

Clearly AotC Kenobi is more skilled than amped TPM Kenobi, but amped TPM Kenobi might be faster and stronger, especially since TPM Kenobi was already ready to be a Jedi Knight and he was 24 years old in TPM (Kenobi is older than Maul by 2 years), his physical abilities at the top imo, he was even quicker than Qui-Gon. He just needed more skill and experience which he completed those in TCW / RotS.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Wasn't "some force rage" all Maul had to even the odds when he'd not fought in 10+ years in TCW? Yet he comes back and consistently stalemates TCW Kenobi. And it was late into TCW as well.

The only time Maul fought Kenobi he was at a disadvantage though.



I mean he nearly defeated Jango Fett who babyshook multiple Jedi with his bare hands.



He mastered an entirely new form, trained Anakin in swordsmanship + clearly retained his skills in Ataru as per ROTS.




More than moderate imo.

Ah that is true @DP,

this is kind of TPM Darth Maul vs. more powerful AotC Kenobi ;

p1fSg_mCId8

This duel was before Darth Maul's power improvement in TCW, so AotC Kenobi has no chance to win this, since his more powerful TCW version failed to do it.

Originally posted by Lord Stark

I mean he nearly defeated Jango Fett who babyshook multiple Jedi with his bare hands.


Dooku claims that AotC Kenobi clearly is not a superior duelist to Qui-Gon Jinn.

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y418/karasakal_teach/StarWars-Omnibus-MenaceRevealed-442_zps0a3d8228.jpg

@Marco

Both, Kenobi and Maul were in terrible shape when they fought each other in TCW S4.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Dooku claims that AotC Kenobi clearly is not a superior duelist to Qui-Gon Jinn.

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y418/karasakal_teach/StarWars-Omnibus-MenaceRevealed-442_zps0a3d8228.jpg

Does he say that in the movie?

Originally posted by McP
@Marco

Both, Kenobi and Maul were in terrible shape when they fought each other in TCW S4.

I believe Mother Talzin somehow make a memory magic for Maul, his insane state was clearly fixed and he wasn't in a bad physical shape since Maul was hunting in Lotho Minor as a spider-monster, he even fought with Savage Opress in a H2H.

kybIpUZjXZ4

As for Kenobi, he is actually pretty durable and he probably healed after that, but I agree he was in a good shape there.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Ah that is true @DP,

this is kind of TPM Darth Maul vs. more powerful AotC Kenobi ;

p1fSg_mCId8

This duel was before Darth Maul's power improvement in TCW, so AotC Kenobi has no chance to win this, since his more powerful TCW version failed to do it.

Actually that Maul was definitely Inferior to TPM Maul. Because it was literally he first Saber fight in 10+years after just adjusting to his new legs on top.

But to be fair Kenobi wasn't exactly in peak form either having just been beaten up earlier. But Broken, Completely Out of Practice Maul also held his own against Ventress in that fight.

Originally posted by Lord Stark


I mean he nearly defeated Jango Fett who babyshook multiple Jedi with his bare hands.




Which wasn't exactly impressive in this thread considering Maul would completely batter Jango Fett.

Even Qui-Gon who was Easily a Council Level Master and one of the best swordsmen in the Galaxy would almost certainly take Jango without too much effort.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Actually that Maul was definitely Inferior to TPM Maul. Because it was literally he first Saber fight in 10+years after just adjusting to his new legs on top.

But to be fair Kenobi wasn't exactly in peak form either having just been beaten up earlier. But Broken, Completely Out of Practice Maul also held his own against Ventress in that fight.

Yes but his DS powers had intensified + he had begun to use Sidious' Sith teachings rather than behave like a mere assassin. Broken Maul also has the massive advantage of his talons.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Which wasn't exactly impressive in this thread considering Maul would completely batter Jango Fett.
Considering his performance against the inferior Vizsla at the height of his power I don't see him doing that much better in TPM.


I think you're downplaying Jango. He'd take him down but it'd be with effort. Council level means nothing to him as per Trebor excellent

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Actually that Maul was definitely Inferior to TPM Maul. Because it was literally he first Saber fight in 10+years after just adjusting to his new legs on top.


I am not sure about without saber exercise, since there is a possibility that Maul and Savage could've been sparring each other before that duel.

Originally posted by Marco1907
I am not sure about without saber exercise, since there is a possibility that Maul and Savage could've been sparring each other before that duel.

Possibly. But a few hours hardly makes up for losing out on 10 years and getting new legs to adjust to.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
So you think that a little bit of Force Rage give Kenobi a greater power up than 10 years of training + Mastery of a new lightsaber form?

Except that he wasn't a master of Soresu as AotC. Kenobi was never a match for Maul in TPM; there was one point where his reckless tactics at the end caught Maul by surprise, but he quickly reassumed control of the situation.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yes but his DS powers had intensified + he had begun to use Sidious' Sith teachings rather than behave like a mere assassin. Broken Maul also has the massive advantage of his talons.


Hey? There's nothing to suggest his Dark Side powers increased by "Revenge." He'd just been revived. His Rage and Focus made him a more powerful opponent over the next few months though (certainly by Revival).


Originally posted by Lord Stark
Considering his performance against the inferior Vizsla at the height of his power I don't see him doing that much better in TPM.


Who said Vizsla was inferior to Jango? Vizsla was the leader of a warrior tribe- "Only the strongest shall rule." Just one of that tribe sent to kill Satine in "Duchess of Madalore" gave Kenobi hell.

Plus Vizsla has his Dark Saber which he wields with Amazing Saber skills. That obviously helps when a Jedi/Sith gets close to him (Jango Fett dies as soon as Windu gets close, and Boba Fett gets downed by ROTJ Luke as soon as he gets too close to him).


Originally posted by Lord Stark
I think you're downplaying Jango. He'd take him down but it'd be with effort. Council level means nothing to him as per Trebor excellent


Trebor was on the Council. Whereas Qui-Gon was easily Council level, and one of the best swordsmen in the Galaxy.

And I've already pointed out how even Post AOTC Kenobi struggles against a Death Watch assassin.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Except that he wasn't a master of Soresu as AotC. Kenobi was never a match for Maul in TPM; there was one point where his reckless tactics at the end caught Maul by surprise, but he quickly reassumed control of the situation.


And this is the point I should have made in the first place, instead of getting so off-track.

^Had you have done that I would have conceded as I am now. While its logical that AOTCs Kenobi should have surpassed Maul, all of his feats and accolades happen after.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
^Had you have done that I would have conceded as I am now.

Lol Yeah. I'm too long winded. Need a bit more Newguy's style to me.


Originally posted by Lord Stark
While its logical that AOTCs Kenobi should have surpassed Maul, all of his feats and accolades happen after.


I don't necessarily even agree with the logic.

Considering Maul was a match for both Qui-Gon and Kenobi combined, and Kenobi wasn't yet even Qui-Gon's equal, there was really never any guarantee Kenobi would even become a match for Maul just due to time.

Of course he did become a match for him (even surpassed TPM Maul) but there was never a guarantee of that Imho.

What I would say would have been a logical assumption is for Kenobi to have surpassed TPM Qui-Gon in time (considering he wasn't much below him even in TPM). And that by AOTC he should have easily been his equal. But the actual evidence and feats doesn't even show that to be the case as of AOTC.

So even though "Time" is a necessity for long term and consistent improvement, it's by no means a guarantee of a Power Up.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Dooku claims that AotC Kenobi clearly is not a superior duelist to Qui-Gon Jinn.

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y418/karasakal_teach/StarWars-Omnibus-MenaceRevealed-442_zps0a3d8228.jpg


Dun Moch dude, come on!

Eh, of that point in time Jinn impresses me more.

Styrak could reanimate Krayt Dragon's alone.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Styrak could reanimate Krayt Dragon's alone.
are you trying out a new level of off-topicness? Or did you post on the wrong thread by mistake?

Shit, wrong thread. Here we go:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=606495&from=thread&pagenumber=1#post15016378

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Does he say that in the movie?

Pretty sure those are Dooku's thoughts, not speech bubbles.

^ Not to mention Dooku actually does state he's disappointed in the movie. People say that's Dun Moch, doesn't mean is not true. It's not like AOTC Kenobi poses such a threat that Dun Moch was at all necessary.

Maul