Palpatine's Sith vs Dark Lords

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carthage
ROTJ Vader, Count Dooku, Darth Maul, TPM Sidious

Vs.

Darth Traya, Exar Kun, Darth Malgus, Darth Caedus

*Battle takes place on neutral ground

Angelalex242
...Team 1?

Sinious
Team 2 wins.

Trocity
Originally posted by Sinious
Team 2 wins.

Good fight though

AncientPower
Team 2

Angelalex242
Hmmm. I probably overestimated Sidious's strength at that point. He'd need his full strength to pull it off

By full strength, I mean at least ROTS or ROTJ.

He might even need DE.

McP
Is Caedus superior to TPM Sidious? If not, then Sidious' team wins.

Angelalex242
TPM Sidious vs. Caedus should be roughly even up. It'll be decided by the other 3.

The Merchant
Team 2.

Lord Stark
Originally posted by carthage
ROTJ Vader, Count Dooku, Darth Maul, TPM Sidious

Vs.

Darth Traya, Exar Kun, Darth Malgus, Darth Caedus

*Battle takes place on neutral ground

Team 1: +7 points
TPM Sidious can win against all 4 combatants (+4 points)
Maul can win against 1 combatant (+1 point)
Tyranus can win against 1 combatants (+1 points)
ROTJ Vader can win against 1 combatant (+1 point)

Team 2: +9 points
Caedus can win against 3 combatants (+3 points)
Traya can win against 0 opponents (+0 points)
Exar Kun can win against 3 opponents (+3 points)
Malgus can win against 3 opponents (+3)

Team 2 takes this moderate-high difficulty.

carthage
Great statistics

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Team 1: +7 points
TPM Sidious can win against all 4 combatants (+4 points)
Maul can win against 1 combatant (+1 point)
Tyranus can win against 1 combatants (+1 points)
ROTJ Vader can win against 1 combatant (+1 point)

Team 2: +9 points
Caedus can win against 3 combatants (+3 points)
Traya can win against 0 opponents (+0 points)
Exar Kun can win against 3 opponents (+3 points)
Malgus can win against 3 opponents (+3 points)

Team 2 takes this moderate-high difficulty.
I really like this concept.

ILS
It's okay but it doesn't account for variables.

DarthAnt66
Screw your variables.

ILS
...fine

*begins ****ing variables over the kitchen counter*

DarthAnt66
Use lubricant.

ILS
The blood will do that for me.

Nephthys
Originally posted by AncientPower
Team 2

Selenial
That's... A really bad method of determining wins.

But still team 2.

Selenial
Also does Traya have Gigadrain? She could beat 3 with it easily, probably Maul without it too.

appletonia
Team 2 pretty easily.

Angelalex242
The strategy would change with more advanced versions of Palpatine.

If it was the DE version of him, Team 1's strategy is have the other 3 form an 'offensive line' while Sidious whips up a Force Storm to wipe out the entire other team.

Nephthys
Which is countered by team 2 doing the same with Traya's Giga-Drain.

Angelalex242
Traya's Giga Drain is no match whatever for a Force Storm. The bigshot of team 2 is Caedus by a long shot.

appletonia
Nah, Caedus's offensive application of the Force doesn't compare to either Traya's or Exar Kun's. If this is any non-DE incarnation of Sidious, Team 2 stomps. DE Sidious makes it a lot more interesting, in the sense that he can swiftly destroy everyone with his Force Storm, but at the same time it's entirely possible he can also be brought down by the members of the other team before he can summon one. It depends on how much help he gets from his teammates, who themselves are completely outclassed by the other team. Maul, for example, probably gets instantly ragdolled by any member of the second team, and Dooku/Vader wouldn't really do much better.

Nephthys
Originally posted by appletonia
Nah, Caedus's offensive application of the Force doesn't compare to either Traya's or Exar Kun's.

This is actually true imo. I've never seen anything truly impressive from Caedus in terms of offensive abilities.

appletonia
Yeah, when people talk about him they usually talk about his durability or esoteric abilities, rather than the output of his powers, which doesn't seem to be too great based on feats.

Trocity
Pretty insane he can shit on 95% of the mythos with skill alone, hey?

Nephthys
Originally posted by appletonia
Yeah, when people talk about him they usually talk about his durability or esoteric abilities, rather than the output of his powers, which doesn't seem to be too great based on feats.

He has a good defensive feat of deflecting a gunships turbolasers or something in Dark Nest. And I think he lifts a ship with Luke at one point.

appletonia
Originally posted by Trocity
Pretty insane he can shit on 95% of the mythos with skill alone, hey?

I personally don't consider him top tier myself.

Trocity
LOL Caedus not top tier? What are your Sith rankings?

appletonia
Something like this:

1. DE Sidious
2. Darth Nihilus
3. Vitiate
4. Tulak Hord
5. Marka Ragnos

3-5 are mostly based on reputation though.

Caedus probably wouldn't make my top 15, and is leagues below the likes of DE Sidious and Nihilus.

Nephthys
I'd really like a source for Jacen blocking turbolasers btw. Preferably a quote or scene as well.

Selenial
Well I think Traya and Kun could take Maul/Dooku/Vader, if Traya drains maul, she can take Dooku while Exar takes Vader. Alone being 1v1's I wouldn't be sure of the results, but Kun and Traya compliment each other perfectly and would win a 2v2.

Just entirely depends on if Caedus and Malgus can take DE Sidious. Or even survive to him long enough.

Trocity
Originally posted by appletonia
Something like this:

1. DE Sidious
2. Darth Nihilus
3. Vitiate
4. Tulak Hord
5. Marka Ragnos

3-5 are mostly based on reputation though.

Caedus probably wouldn't make my top 15, and is leagues below the likes of DE Sidious and Nihilus.

LOL. Okay, now I'm not as shocked that you don't consider him top tier.

Angelalex242
The thing about Team 1 is that they're generally better with Sabers (Do not go Saber to Saber with Dooku, or even Vader. They will KILL you) and even Maul is pretty much a lightsaber trying to kill people. A beatstick. Sidious remains the trump card, of course, because Force Storm is an instant win condition. His 3 guards just have to do like a football team and protect their QB long enough for him to get that going.

Team 2 generally has a force advantage. While Dooku and Vader can hold their own (Vader's best move is TK, nobody's going to be ragdolling him, and Dooku is capable of fending Yoda off, at least temporarily), Maul really can't.

It can be assumed Maul will be going after Malgus, initially, and he's basically outclassed.

So basically, Vader and Dooku just have to hold out long enough to get the Force Storm going. Team 2 wants to get by them to 'sack the QB.'

The other option, of course, is that Sidious, faster by far then all members of team 2 save Caedus, might outright kill Kun, Traya, or Malgus, treating them like B team in his office, speed blitzing the bunch of them.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Nephthys
He has a good defensive feat of deflecting a gunships turbolasers or something in Dark Nest. And I think he lifts a ship with Luke at one point.

Yeah, casually batting away Turbolaser fire is practically the best deflection feat in the mythos, and his esoteric powers are numerous.

Luke isn't present during the latter feat, IIRC, Jacen does it alone. The ship is 40x20 meters, though, so far from small. He can also trade blows with Luke as far as TK goes, so he's hardly shabby.

In terms of Power/Telepathy, it's pretty impressive that the combined Force power of nearly 400 Kilik Nests can't influence him, whereas Jaina and other powerful Jedi were controlled.

IIRC His lightning fried some Vong, which are notoriously Force-resistant. It also KO'd Jaina, which is also fairly impressive considering how powerful she is.

Supposedly he also has impressive illusion/mind domination feats, but I am not aware of them. Perhaps you could run it by Arhael, see what he picks up.

carthage
He also blasted back rubble from two tunnels Mara collapsed him on him while injured.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yeah, casually batting away Turbolaser fire is practically the best deflection feat in the mythos, and his esoteric powers are numerous.
Turbolasers vary in lethality factor. Therefore, your assumption is moot.

To give you an idea, some Turbolaser based weapon systems, mounted on enormous starships, are powerful enough to utterly destroy a skyscraper with a single shot and I don't think that this kind of Turbolaser can be countered with a lightsaber.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Luke isn't present during the latter feat, IIRC, Jacen does it alone. The ship is 40x20 meters, though, so far from small. He can also trade blows with Luke as far as TK goes, so he's hardly shabby.
An impressive feat but is still vague for comparative purposes.

Small Starships in Star Wars can be made of light materials to reduce their weight, make them maneuverable and capable of flights in space.

For comparative purposes, Fokker 70 is 100 feet long, weights 22 tons, and it is much bigger then many small starships in Star Wars: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/Fokker70-lba.jpg

My assumption is that the Jet that Jacen lifted could be around 5 tons mark at maximum. Please keep in mind that the weight of the Jet increases exponentially with size and not in linear fashion.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
In terms of Power/Telepathy, it's pretty impressive that the combined Force power of nearly 400 Kilik Nests can't influence him, whereas Jaina and other powerful Jedi were controlled.
Combined Force power of 400 Kiliks is equal to what? Vague.

And Jaina wasn't a powerful Jedi at this point. She was in the process of learning and growing.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
IIRC His lightning fried some Vong, which are notoriously Force-resistant. It also KO'd Jaina, which is also fairly impressive considering how powerful she is.
Vong aren't absolutely Force-resistant. As an example, Force lightning worked on them.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Supposedly he also has impressive illusion/mind domination feats, but I am not aware of them. Perhaps you could run it by Arhael, see what he picks up.
He was able to cast an illusion of another person to mask himself, he pulled this off against Mara to make an opening to take her down.

Emperordmb
I thought the Killik control was based on Pheremones, not force power.

Yeah Vong don't have force resistance against Lightning it seems.

NewGuy01
You're right, he did it with his hand.

And lol @ an 120-foot long starship weighing less than a couple small cars max.

Arhael
Team 1. Caedus cannot drag the entire team.

carthage
not getting how he is dragging them down?

Kun can compete with any of the duelists (barring Sidious) skillfully, Malgus can take out Maul with the force and pressure Dooku with it, and Traya can kill Maul with drain or TP Dooku out of the equation.

Team 2 has a fair shot

Angelalex242
New point:

How much of team 2 can Sidious simply speedblitz out of existence, assuming he's inclined to start with his saber?

carthage
Sidious can blitz anyone but Caedus, but I find blitzing highly unlikely given Caedus can take him on himself.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Angelalex242
New point:

How much of team 2 can Sidious simply speedblitz out of existence, assuming he's inclined to start with his saber?

None of them?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by NewGuy01
You're right, he did it with his hand.
Provide me the details of this event.

Also, do you know what kind of turbolaser weapon system was involved?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
And lol @ an 120-foot long starship weighing less than a couple small cars max.
Show me this starship.

Angelalex242
Caedus can take him on himself, but so did Windu, and Windu wasn't able to save his friends. Why is Caedus better able to save his 3 pals?

carthage
Neph is talking out of his ass as usual. None of the Sith barring Caedus have speed feats to suggest they dont get blitzed, but this is highly unlikely as Caedus is the one he'll likely end up dealing with

Angelalex242
True. But again, Windu wasn't able to save his 3 pals.

And Sidious clearly has 'prey on the weak first' tendencies.

Selenial
Traya dodged lightsabers....

But this is TPM Sidious, no?

appletonia
Traya did get blitzed by Sion. But then, TPM Sidious is a relative pipsqueak next to the immortal Sith Lord.

Angelalex242
It's true. We keep forgetting to downgrade Sidious, because it's more natural to remember him in godmode.

Selenial
Originally posted by appletonia
Traya did get blitzed by Sion. But then, TPM Sidious is a relative pipsqueak next to the immortal Sith Lord.

That was when she barely had a connection to the force.

So lol.

carthage
The fact people are comparing Sidious to a loser like Sion whose only ability of note is coming back after he gets his ass kicked and dies in battle is hilarious.

AncientPower
TPM Sids isn't blitzing any one on Team 2, Sids is essentially the only hope for Team 2 and if he can't one shot someone, Caedus just stalemates and perhaps even keeps him on a back foot.

The rest of team 2 defeats the rest of team 1 pretty solidly.

Revanchiste
2

DarthAnt66
I thought you were banned.

carthage
Who reported him?

Emperordmb
Probably whoever he cussed out in the battle bar.

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