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Bane & Zannah as of Dynasty of Evil.

Anakin & Obi-Wan as of Revenge of the Sith.

Sabers only. Battle takes place on Lothal.

Bane can't carry the team to victory.

Anakin fumbles against Zannah's defenses for a while until Bane finishes Kenobi extremely quickly and tears his whiny head off.

An all out would be a more interesting contest, really. Team 2 solidly.

Team two with room to spare. Both Anakin and Obi Wan are better saber users then Bane.

Personally I feel that Zannah is very well suited to fighting Anakin. His power attacks will be nullified just like Bane's were by her style that focuses on pushing attacks to the side with her spinning blade rather than meet them head on. Her impeccable defense will likely frustrate Skywalker into making a critical mistake, much like what occurred in RotS.

Bane is also well suited for Kenobi. Given that he's much stronger, faster and powerful than him. He would semi-blitz him. His focus on advanced Djem So and highly unpredictable assault will naturally assist in swiftly overwhelming him.

Switched around Bane overpowers Anakin and two Metapods use harden at each other indefinitely.

Anakin would plow through her.

Like Bane did? Anakin can't muscle his way through a defense that specifically negates strength, he can't outspeed her when a faster duelist failed to, he cannot use the environment against her because Lothal is a flat grassland. So how exactly would Anakin "plow" through her?

Like how Bane was going to do, or that other featless Jedi from RoT.

Bane explicitly couldn't plow through her. Hence why, after trying and failing to do that, he backed off and resorted to an indirect strategy that didn't involve breaking himself against her defense.

Bringing up a fight that happened far before her prime to prove a point is stupid and you should feel stupid. Because you are stupid. And also you are adopted. So that is also funny. Idiot.

Also you're ignoring that she only needs to hold him off long enough for Bane to shove his lightsaber up Obi-Wan's one ring.

Man, you throwing out insults already? I can already sense previous butthurt running through your boner.

If you think that's a legitimate insult you should get off the internet right now.

Another insult?! Jez dude, calm down. Just a teen loving Star Wars here.

And Traya does > Revan btw.

Remember that Tier List we're working on?

8 and 6 vs. 9 and 8.

Stomp.

Bane needs his armor to stand a chance of taking on a 9 and an 8 with irrelevant help.

Zannah is a 7 at worst, tbh, she's probably an 8 in her own right. That said, Anakin is a 9, and Obi-Wan has her beat in virtually every area when it comes to sabers.

I couldn't care less about your tier list. It's a pointless exercise that oversimplifies a complex subject. Anakin isn't going to beat Zannah because she's a 6. Bane, an 8 according to you, couldn't directly overpower Zannah in direct combat and needed to indirectly use the environment to penetrate her defenses. Anakin possesses nothing that will allow him to get through her defense where Bane couldn't.

If you're going to say team 2 wins, actually look at the duelists and how their abilities match up. It tells a different story than your point system.

Ah, but Anakin>Bane. Just cause Bane can't do it doesn't mean Anakin can't.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Remember that Tier List we're working on?

8 and 6 vs. 9 and 8.

Stomp.
No. Somebody's placement on a made up tier list shouldn't be used as an actual argument ever.

In what way does Anakin surpass Bane?

Why the hell are we bringing in that tier list shit here?

Actually tempted to give the win to team 1 just because someone tried to pull the tier card.

I legitimately laughed out loud because of Ant's comments on this page.

Originally posted by Nephthys
In what way does Anakin surpass Bane?

Real question is in what way doesn't he surpass Bane, tbh. Maybe unpredictability?

DMB, as much as you object to the list, the whole POINT of the thing is to use it as a resource in these threads. That is the purpose for its existence. It's quick reference sheet so pointless battles are dismissed for the pointlessness they are.

Anakin is superior to Bane due to defeating Dooku, who is also superior to Bane.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Actually tempted to give the win to team 1 just because someone tried to pull the tier card.

z0UudoppDDs

Originally posted by Angelalex242
DMB, as much as you object to the list, the whole POINT of the thing is to use it as a resource in these threads. That is the purpose for its existence. It's quick reference sheet so pointless battles are dismissed for the pointlessness they are.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Anakin is superior to Bane due to defeating Dooku, who is also superior to Bane.

Wonderfully specific. It definitely gives a legitimate way for him to get through Zannah's defense. He'll just grab her wrists and oh wait

Originally posted by Angelalex242
DMB, as much as you object to the list, the whole POINT of the thing is to use it as a resource in these threads. That is the purpose for its existence. It's quick reference sheet so pointless battles are dismissed for the pointlessness they are.
No. The tiers were made, according to Carthage, as a way so people would not report him anymore for saying Bane and other characters are weak. You can't really expect to pass that BS on a page filled with people who support Bane.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
DMB, as much as you object to the list, the whole POINT of the thing is to use it as a resource in these threads. That is the purpose for its existence. It's quick reference sheet so pointless battles are dismissed for the pointlessness they are.

Anakin is superior to Bane due to defeating Dooku, who is also superior to Bane.
Using a list such as that as an argument as to why one character beats another is inherently flawed in and of itself, even disregarding the fact that the list was made, coordinated, adjusted, and moderated by a person with a completely blatant anti-Bane bias. Even disregarding that, using a tier list as an argument is flawed.

People would report him for saying Bane was weak...

Originally posted by Angelalex242

Anakin is superior to Bane due to defeating Dooku, who is also superior to Bane.

Basically this. The fact that Anakin was able to overpower Dooku in the fashion that he did places him securely in the highest echelons of the mythos as a duelist, simply because Dooku himself has some of the best lightsaber feats there are.

@Ares Extremely unfair, tbh.

And the way Anakin overpowered Dooku isn't replicatable against Zannah so it's pointless to bring up.

....It seems I owe you guys an apology.

I had thought the purpose of the list was to serve as an impartial judge to streamline vs threads.

At least, that's why I've chosen to work on it.

Well for one thing, I'd say it would. Secondly, I'm not pitting him against Zannah.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
....It seems I owe you guys an apology.

I had thought the purpose of the list was to serve as an impartial judge to streamline vs threads.

At least, that's why I've chosen to work on it.
Nah, it was for other means. We still love you though. <3

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well for one thing, I'd say it would. Secondly, I'm not pitting him against Zannah.

Zannah vs Obi-Wan seems unlikely to happen.

Zannah uses a saberstaff. Anakin (or ObiWan, for that matter) is precise enough to cut the saber staff in two, as happens to Maul pretty much all the time. Once Zannah's down to a single bladed saber, she's not that tough to deal with.

...and to think I worked so damn hard on that list to get Mara up to an 8 Force Side. Oh well.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Zannah uses a saberstaff. Anakin (or ObiWan, for that matter) is precise enough to cut the saber staff in two, as happens to Maul pretty much all the time.
Happened to Maul once. There is a massive difference between once and all the time.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Zannah uses a saberstaff. Anakin (or ObiWan, for that matter) is precise enough to cut the saber staff in two, as happens to Maul pretty much all the time. Once Zannah's down to a single bladed saber, she's not that tough to deal with.

...and to think I worked so damn hard on that list to get Mara up to an 8 Force Side. Oh well.

You can't cut it in half so easily because the spinning blades will catch and redirect the slash before it reaches the handle. And a thrust is easily blocked by moving the hilt a half foot to the right. Anakin's Djem So doesn't utilise thrusts anyway, its a power move style. If it were so easy, Bane could have tried it. Yet even when in RoT when he vastly surpassed her he didn't go for that and used different methods. Not once does an opponent even go for her hilt to my knowledge.

Happened to Maul twice, DMB.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Zannah vs Obi-Wan seems unlikely to happen.

I don't see why.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I don't see why.

Two Soresu duelists? Both let the opponent go to them, why would they engage each other? Djem So vs Soresu seems a more likely outcome. Aggression vs defense matches up more naturally.

Originally posted by ares834
People would report him for saying Bane was weak...

On threads that didn't have Bane in the title. =/

Anakin vs. Bane is more likely, as the aggressive guys run right into each other.

And one of Maul's cut saberstaffs is courtesy of ObiWan. He could easily do the same to Zannah.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
....It seems I owe you guys an apology.

I had thought the purpose of the list was to serve as an impartial judge to streamline vs threads.

At least, that's why I've chosen to work on it. I'm pretty sure the point of the list was that carthage was pissing and shitting all over himself over people reporting him. So, he decided to make a thread to deflect any future conflict with the mods.

It was made because someone was being overly-sensitive on the internet, basically.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Anakin vs. Bane is more likely, as the aggressive guys run right into each other.

And one of Maul's cut saberstaffs is courtesy of ObiWan. He could easily do the same to Zannah.

Bane kicks Anakin's ass then. :shrug:

I literally just explained why he couldn't.

Team 2 easily

Anakin is many tiers above Bane its laughable people are even attempting to make a comparison, and Kenobi can actually generate offense and has actually beaten superior duelists to Set Harth

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Using a list such as that as an argument as to why one character beats another is inherently flawed in and of itself, even disregarding the fact that the list was made, coordinated, adjusted, and moderated by a person with a completely blatant anti-Bane bias. Even disregarding that, using a tier list as an argument is flawed.

It's only correct when he's ranked highly, right? Lol.

Just because Carthage hates the Bane era and Ant hates women in general does not mean the characters they shit on are weak.

Bane ad Zannah > Anakin and Obi Wan

Originally posted by red8
Ant hates women in general
I have more female friends then male, broski.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I have more female friends then male, broski.

Quite defensive there...

Originally posted by Nalaniel
On threads that didn't have Bane in the title. =/

And? Put him on ignore if you care that much.

Flagging this for a mismatch

Neither of them can compare to Anakin or Kenobi as a duelists.

http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/07/eye-roll-animated-gif.gif

I still think Anakin would take Bane. For all the latter is a Sithari, the former is still THE Chosen One.

Even if most everything Chosen about him pretty much skipped a generation.

Bane has literally only beaten Sirak, and that was still with a nexus amp.

Bane has no skill feats to compare to beating Dooku or Ventress. This is a massive mismatch.

Zannah would also get stomped by Kenobi

Certainly, since Kenobi has proven skill severing Maul's saberstaff, and Maul is a far better duelist.

I've already indicated why it's unlikely Kenobi can sever Zannah's saberstaff and you've so far been unable to indicate otherwise bro.

Any more unlikely than Zannah beating him in a duel?

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Certainly, since Kenobi has proven skill severing Maul's saberstaff, and Maul is a far better duelist.

That was a One-Off. It's not like Kenobi can do that any time he likes.

If he could he certainly would have cut Opress's Saber Staff in the numerous times he fought him 10 years on.

Originally posted by ares834
And? Put him on ignore if you care that much.

It's none of your business how I treat people I don't like.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Happened to Maul twice, DMB.




To be fair the second time (against Vader) benefited Maul more than it hindered him, as he switched to Dual Saber wielding, which is another one of his favored forms.

Anyway as I've already mentioned hitting the Saber staff handle obviously can happen, just like disarming a person of his Single Saber can happen. But it's not some likely scenario (and certainly not some auto-win providing the wielder is also Masterful at wielding dual Sabers or even a Single Saber) given that Kenobi never cut Opress's Saber Staff in the 3/4 times he fought him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane is also well suited for Kenobi. Given that he's much stronger, faster and powerful than him. He would semi-blitz him. His focus on advanced Djem So and highly unpredictable assault will naturally assist in swiftly overwhelming him. Like Grievous, right?

Like that one time Grievous owned him? Similar I guess. More decapitation though.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Like that one time Grievous owned him? Similar I guess. More decapitation though. By RotS Kenobi was fully equipped to deal with Grievous, and he did. Even though Grievous is a lot more powerful than him, could attack faster than he could think, extremely unpredictable and can also practically download and adapt to an opponent's fighting style mid-fight, which is also fun.

So why would Bane have a better time, when he's less skilled than Kenobi and isn't on-par with Grievous either?

Grievous isn't more powerful than him though. He isn't powerful at all. He lacks Force power althogether. That's the difference.

Well, and Bane is also faster than Grievous is. You might as well be going "Well Sidious/Dooku/Yoda/Luke/Caedus/Krayt/Plagueis/Blah is stronger and faster than Kenobi too, just like Grievous therefore Kenobi wins."

More powerful physically, yes, he is.

No he isn't, lol.

I don't know why you're bringing up those comparisons. You listed three criteria for Bane and stated he was well suited to beating Kenobi, so I referenced someone who is more skilled than Bane and has him beaten in all three criteria, who Kenobi both defeated and was well-suited to defeating himself. So I'm wondering what's so great about Bane that he can perform better than Grievous in a duel.

Sidious, Yoda, Luke and Caedus outweigh Kenobi in every capacity, so them winning is a no-brainer. The Count is more skilled than Kenobi. Plagueis is a lot better physically overall and is likely comparable in raw skill, which should allow him to win. I'm not an expert on Krayt or Blah, though.

Originally posted by ILS
More powerful physically, yes, he is.

No he isn't, lol.

I don't know why you're bringing up those comparisons. You listed three criteria for Bane and stated he was well suited to beating Kenobi, so I referenced someone who is more skilled than Bane and has him beaten in all three criteria, who Kenobi both defeated and was well-suited to defeating himself. So I'm wondering what's so great about Bane that he can perform better than Grievous in a duel.

Sidious, Yoda, Luke and Caedus outweigh Kenobi in every capacity, so them winning is a no-brainer. The Count is more skilled than Kenobi. Plagueis is a lot better physically overall and is likely comparable in raw skill, which should allow him to win. I'm not an expert on Krayt or Blah, though.

And Kenobi is able to compensate for Grievous' superior stats because he has the Force. The RotS novel makes it abundantly clear that even though GG's speed and strength exceeds Kenobi's, by falling fully into the Force Obi-Wan can defeat him. He doesn't have to be as fast as Grievous and isn't, because he has the Force. The Force allows him to predict Grievous' attacks so that Kenobi can intercept "three or four or eight of the general's strikes, the rest sizzling past him, his precise, minimal shifts of weight and stance slipping them by centimeters." Bane however, is more powerful than Kenobi by a lot. So that doesn't work.

I brought up those comparison's because Bane wins for very similar reasons that they do. Your comparison however is invalid, because Grievous is a non-force sensitive. So his superior speed and strength is negated by his inability to call upon the Force, a disadvantage Bane does not share. Bane is well suited to defeating Kenobi because he is stronger than him, faster than him, much more powerful than him and comparable in skill.

Bane would stomp Kenobi.

The only problem with your theory is Windu telling Kenobi that he, out of the entire Jedi Order, is the most likely to be able to defeat Grievous. Grievous has killed literally hundreds of Jedi and destroyed groups of them at a time, and their foresight didn't count for much in the process.

And Grievous' lack of Force sensitivity didn't stop him from defeating Ventress and being stated as being her superior by Dooku (someone who is a regular equal of Kenobi and contender to Anakin and Windu). Didn't stop him from having an even fight with Mace Windu with his movement hampered. Ect, ect.

Kenobi compensated for Grievous' stats where others couldn't, because he's the right kind of fighter to do so.

Bane can be stronger than Kenobi, hell he can be faster as well, which is a debate in of itself. But none of that mattered against Grievous, so really Bane isn't well suited to taking Kenobi out at all.

And Bane wouldn't stomp Obi-Wan in sabers, bro. He wouldn't even win.

Originally posted by ILS


And Grievous' lack of Force sensitivity didn't stop him from defeating Ventress and being stated as being her superior by Dooku




Where did Dooku state this?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Where did Dooku state this?

Grievous has the power of computers. Being able to think in computer time, while not a complete substitute for the Force, does serve as adequate compensation, most of the time.

If somebody was smart and equipped Grievous with a ysalamiri, he'd have stomped almost everybody.

However, I've yet to see any feats for Bane that suggest he's a match for Kenobi or Anakin

In the event of the mismatches, Kenobi is adequate to stonewall Bane long enough for Anakin to dispatch Zannah and come help. In the event of a true match, Kenobi will probably dispatch Zannah before Anakin finishes with Bane.

Stop being a fanboy ILS.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=14571769&highlight=rain+userid%3A108686#post14571769

By all available evidence, Bane is the absolute fastest Force User in the entire mythos, and he's tremendously skilled (his battle instincts and adaptability are among the best we've ever seen, as is his overall knowledge of the lightsaber, as evidenced by his ability to perfectly memorise all of Kas'im's techniques and being able to apply that knowledge to perfectly counter anything he could produce (with the exception of his Jar'kai)), one of the physically strongest Force Users we've come across, and equipped with all the other advantages that an elite Force User would possess in a lightsaber duel to boot. He's several leagues beyond the likes of Anakin, Obi-Wan, Grievous and Dooku, and if Zannah was indeed competetive against him (I haven't read the book myself so I will let Nephthys answer that), so is she.

Originally posted by ILS
The only problem with your theory is Windu telling Kenobi that he, out of the entire Jedi Order, is the most likely to be able to defeat Grievous. Grievous has killed literally hundreds of Jedi and destroyed groups of them at a time, and their foresight didn't count for much in the process.

And Grievous' lack of Force sensitivity didn't stop him from defeating Ventress and being stated as being her superior by Dooku (someone who is a regular equal of Kenobi and contender to Anakin and Windu). Didn't stop him from having an even fight with Mace Windu with his movement hampered. Ect, ect.

Kenobi compensated for Grievous' stats where others couldn't, because he's the right kind of fighter to do so.

Bane can be stronger than Kenobi, hell he can be faster as well, which is a debate in of itself. But none of that mattered against Grievous, so really Bane isn't well suited to taking Kenobi out at all.

And Bane wouldn't stomp Obi-Wan in sabers, bro. He wouldn't even win.

Well tbh Windu was talking out of his ass at that point since Grievous had essentially beaten Kenobi in sabers 3 times by that time in TCW.

But you misunderstand, I'm not saying that Grievous is shit and that anyone with the Force can beat him. I'm not denying that he's good enough to beat Ventress. I'm not denying that he can fight Windu well. All I'm saying is that despite being faster and stronger than Kenobi he is only on or below Kenobi's level. Because he lacks the Force. That is a disadvantage. It just happens that Grievous' other abilities more than make up for that against most force users. And yes, Kenobi's Soresu might be good against Grievous especially. So Grievous is a physically superior combatant, but is brought down to Kenobi's level because he lacks the Force. Bane is a physically superior combatant and has no such hindrance.

I'm pretty sure Filoni has flat out said that GG is hindered by his lack of force powers, so this isn't just my opinion.

Bane is faster than Kenobi can keep up with. He'd go down very fast. Just like he would against Sidious or Yoda or Bandon.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
or that other featless Jedi from RoT.

facepalm

Originally posted by appletonia
He's several leagues beyond the likes of Anakin, Obi-Wan, Grievous and Dooku, and if Zannah was indeed competetive against him (I haven't read the book myself so I will let Nephthys answer that), so is she.

Judge for yourself:

"Zannah expected Bane to come at her aggressively, but even so she was caught off guard by the ferociousness of his attack.

He opened with a series of two-handed overhead chops, using his great height to bring his blade hacking down at her from above. She easily blocked each blow, but the momentum of the crushing impact caused her to stagger back, throwing her off balance.

She recovered quickly, however, spinning out of the way when he followed up with a low, looping swipe meant to hew her off at the knees. She retaliated with a quick jab with the tip of one of her blades toward Bane's face, but he ducked his head to the side and came back with a wide-arcing, single-handed slash at chest level.

Zannah intercepted his blade with one of her own, angling her weapon so that the momentum of Bane's attack was redirected downward, sending the tip of his lightsaber into the dirt. This should have exposed him to a counterthrust, but he was already reacting to her move, driving his entire body forward into Zannah's before she could bring her weapon up.

His weight slammed into her, knocking her back as Bane snapped his neck forward. Zannah threw her head back just in time, and the head-butt that would have smashed her face glanced off her chin instead.

Scrambling to stay on her feet, Zannah raised her weapon back up, spinning the handle so that the twirling blades formed a defensive wall that repelled Bane's next half a dozen blows.

During her years under Bane, they had sparred hundreds of times. During these sessions she had always known he was keeping something in reserve for the day they would inevitably fight for real. Only now did she realize just how much he had been holding back.

He was faster than she could ever have imagined, and he was using new sequences and unfamiliar moves he had never revealed during their practice sessions. But somehow she had survived the initial flurry, and now she knew what to expect.

The next exchange had a more familiar feel. Bane pressed the action with a devastating, complex combination of attacks, but Zannah was able to intercept, parry, or deflect each one. Her defensive style was simple, but performed correctly it was nearly impenetrable.

Recognizing this, Bane backed off and changed tactics. Instead of a savage, relentless pressure meant to overwhelm her, he settled into a pattern of feints and quick thrusts, probing and prodding her defenses in search of a weakness as the two of them settled in for a long battle of attrition.

Zannah had fought him once before, back when he was still encased in his orbalisk armor. She remembered it had been like battling a force of nature: the chitinous parasites covering his entire body had been impervious to lightsaber attacks, allowing him to attack with pure animal rage. She had survived that encounter only by convincing Bane she hadn't betrayed him, and in the end he had let her live.

His style back then had been brutish and simple, though undeniably effective. Now, however, his technique was more advanced. Unable to simply bully his way heedlessly forward, he had developed an unpredictable, seemingly random style. Each time she thought she could anticipate where the next attack was coming from, he changed tactics, disrupting the rhythm of the battle and causing her to give ground.

She was being driven back in a slow retreat, and she realized he was herding her toward the shuttles, hoping to pin her against the metal hull with no place to go. Zannah was content to play along, taking quick, careful steps backward over the soft, sandy terrain as she began to gather her power.

The key was subtlety. She couldn't let Bane sense what she was doing or he would launch into another wild flurry of attacks, forcing her to focus all her energy on keeping him at bay. She had to give him the illusion he was controlling the action, when in fact she was only a few seconds away from unleashing a burst of dark side sorcery that would rip his mind apart.

Bane circled wide trying to come in on her left flank. Zannah simply altered the angle of her retreat, taking several more steps backward to keep him at a safe distance as she swatted away a few token slashes and strikes.

With her attention split between the enemy in front of her and the Sith spell she was preparing to cast Zannah didn't notice how close she was to the freshly dug graves. Her heel caught on the uneven ground as she backed up, throwing her off balance as she fell awkwardly to the ground and landed on her back.

Bane was on her in an instant, his lightsaber slashing viciously, his heavy boots kicking and stomping at her prone body. Zannah thrashed and twisted on the ground, her lightsaber flailing desperately to parry Bane's blade. She felt a sharp crack as the toe of his boot caught her in the ribs, but she rolled with the impact and managed to end up back on her feet.

Her vision was blurred with stars, pain shooting through her left side with each gasp as she tried to catch her breath. Bane didn't let up, coming at her with a frenetic assault. The next few seconds were a blur as Zannah relied purely on instincts honed over twenty years to parry the wave of blows, miraculously keeping him from landing a lethal strike.

Zannah threw herself into a back handspring, flipping head over heels three times in quick succession just to put some space between her and Bane. Before the fourth one she suddenly stopped and went into a crouch, thrusting forward with her lightsaber like a spear to impale her opponent as he charged after her in pursuit: only Bane wasn't there.

Anticipating her move, he had stopped several meters away."

She's able to deal with his speed without much issue, nullify his strength when she starts up her defense and Bane has to indirectly effect her to get through her defensive wall. Even when on the ground and wounded she is able to block all his attacks and disengage successfully. Theres not the great gap between them that people think there is.

drbs



I'll take your word for it though.

Dog River Business Solutions?

I don't think we're going to agree, Neph. Grievous' physical stats and processing speed is his answer to Foresight, as well as an answer to their superhuman stats through augmentation. Grievous is generally stronger and faster than any opponent he comes across, but they have foresight, which allows them to keep up. So he isn't really at an inherent disadvantage against a Force User, not more than they are in comparison to his incredible speed and strength.

Eh, Filoni was talking out of his ass. He basically said that, in his opinion, Grievous' success is derived from him spinning his lightsabers in a scary manner and that any Force sensitive who can get over the scare factor can beat him. I think anyone who has read into the character knows his form of combat is a little more advanced than being a scary buzzsaw.....

Bane isn't faster than Kenobi can keep up with, brobeans. But I don't think we're going to come to a resolution on that any time soon.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dog River Business Solutions?

yes..

Originally posted by ILS
I don't think we're going to agree, Neph. Grievous' physical stats and processing speed is his answer to Foresight, as well as an answer to their superhuman stats through augmentation. Grievous is generally stronger and faster than any opponent he comes across, but they have foresight, which allows them to keep up. So he isn't really at an inherent disadvantage against a Force User, not more than they are in comparison to his incredible speed and strength.

Eh, Filoni was talking out of his ass. He basically said that, in his opinion, Grievous' success is derived from him spinning his lightsabers in a scary manner and that any Force sensitive who can get over the scare factor can beat him. I think anyone who has read into the character knows his form of combat is a little more advanced than being a scary buzzsaw.....

Bane isn't faster than Kenobi can keep up with, brobeans. But I don't think we're going to come to a resolution on that any time soon.

Processing speed doesn't really compare to the ability to react before something occurs imo. It seems you agree with me though, it basically evens out in the end. Which was what I was trying to get across. Grievous has speed, Kenobi has the Force. Almost equal. Bane has both, so he is superior to both.

Filoni > U estahuh

Bane in a slower incarnation was able to appear to be wielding a dozen lightsabers at once. Hell, I'm pretty darn sure he and Kas'im were almost or as fast as GG in this duel in PoD. Bane is much faster than Kenobi is.

So we would be agreeing about my point on Kenobi vs Grievous in relation to Bane.. if we agreed on how strong/fast Bane is. I will save this debate for when I read the trilogy.
Originally posted by ILS
I have a theory that DARTHPOWER has the families of LucasFilms' story team tied up in his basement at gunpoint until Filoni and Lucas have released sufficient creator statements to nerf/boost the characters of his preference. So on those grounds Filoni's statement is false.

Originally posted by ILS
I will save this debate for when I read the trilogy.

More like you will leave now before you get crushed any further by my padawan.

Anyway, I've still not heard a suggestion for how exactly Kenobi or Anakin could defeat Zannah as easily as people are claiming. Cutting her saber in half has been explained to be bunk. Neither can get through offensively. Neither are fast enough to get around it or anything. There's no environmental advantage for them to take er, advantage of.

Lol at Bane being 'fastest in the mythos.' No. The fastest Sith in the mythos is the culmination of the Rule of 2, not the beginning of it. Which is as Bane intended, so no whining about it.

The reason Zannah gets dissed is because of the quote about Zannah (found on many vs. videos that include her) that all she's got for lightsaber combat is a shield and patience.

That's not enough to deal with Kenobi or Anakin.

Her highly defensive style should work effectively against both of them though. Kenobi clearly lacks the offense that'd be needed to get through and Anakin will easily frustrate himself against her and become sloppy.

A shield and patience works just fine against someone who can't get through the shield. And she does actually have offensive capabilities. Her strategy is to wear them down and then switch to offense. So obviously she needs offense as well.

Originally posted by ILS


Eh, Filoni was talking out of his ass. He basically said that, in his opinion, Grievous' success is derived from him spinning his lightsabers in a scary manner and that any Force sensitive who can get over the scare factor can beat him. I think anyone who has read into the character knows his form of combat is a little more advanced than being a scary buzzsaw.....



Pretty sure Dooku tells Grievous in LOE and the OCW that he needs Fear, Surprise and Intimidation on his side to beat the best of the Jedi.

Filoni's assessment of Grievous's strengths are that his Blades twirling so fast do in fact Intimidate Jedi. They're not used to seeing that, and it can make a Jedi think that this guy is too fast for them to counter. But when they realise they can counter it with their pre-cog(something Grievous lacks) then they can perform much better against him.

Dooku said he needs surprise fear ect in order to ensure victory. Without them, Grievous leaves the possibility of losing up in the air. Which is true for anyone on even footing.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Lol at Bane being 'fastest in the mythos.' No. The fastest Sith in the mythos is the culmination of the Rule of 2, not the beginning of it. Which is as Bane intended, so no whining about it.

Oh great, this argument again, and now it's being applied directly to Force Speed.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Processing speed doesn't really compare to the ability to react before something occurs imo. It seems you agree with me though, it basically evens out in the end. Which was what I was trying to get across. Grievous has speed, Kenobi has the Force. Almost equal. Bane has both, so he is superior to both.

Filoni > U estahuh

Bane in a slower incarnation was able to appear to be wielding a dozen lightsabers at once. Hell, I'm pretty darn sure he and Kas'im were almost or as fast as GG in this duel in PoD. Bane is much faster than Kenobi is.

You constantly assert he's faster yet never provide the quote, and Bane's Orbalisk speed feats >> Bane's opinion he was faster. Kas'im was only fast due to being amped by the Lehon nexus. Bane at his fastest i,e moving in a blur and forming a shield with his blade is Qui gon speed, hardly as fast as you're wanking him out to be. But keep evading the fact he's only beaten Sirak as a duelist without a nexus and orbalisks

Originally posted by carthage
You constantly assert he's faster yet never provide the quote, and Bane's Orbalisk speed feats >> Bane's opinion he was faster. Kas'im was only fast due to being amped by the Lehon nexus. Bane at his fastest i,e moving in a blur and forming a shield with his blade is Qui gon speed, hardly as fast as you're wanking him out to be. But keep evading the fact he's only beaten Sirak as a duelist without a nexus and orbalisks

reported

Not really sure you are even allowed to report people. You're lucky I love Nephthys enough though...

Originally posted by ILS
Dooku said he needs surprise fear ect in order to ensure victory. Without them, Grievous leaves the possibility of losing up in the air. Which is true for anyone on even footing.


Your Love for Grievous has no boundaries.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Your Love for Grievous has no boundaries. Concession accepted >:]

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Not really sure you are even allowed to report people. You're lucky I love Nephthys enough though...

wut?

Originally posted by appletonia
reported

Reported for abusing the report system.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Your Love for Grievous has no boundaries.

It's because Grievous is terrific.

Definitely better than Bane and Zannah

Originally posted by appletonia
Oh great, this argument again, and now it's being applied directly to Force Speed.

...If Bane got in a race with Sidious, Bane's got nothing. He wouldn't even outrace Plagueis, and Plagueis barely cares about combat, due to being mostly a scientist.

You could argue the point, but point to Bane taking down a Windu class duelist and his 3 friends, before even reaching full power, before you try.

More relevant, Bane is not faster then Anakin either. The Mustafar duel is far more impressive for both combatants then anything Bane and Zannah ever did.

His best speed feat is against water droplets , that's what everyone is wanking. Bane hasn't demonstrated anything faster than Qui gon in speed, and his dueling ability is even worse.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
...If Bane got in a race with Sidious, Bane's got nothing. He wouldn't even outrace Plagueis, and Plagueis barely cares about combat, due to being mostly a scientist.

You could argue the point, but point to Bane taking down a Windu class duelist and his 3 friends, before even reaching full power, before you try.

More relevant, Bane is not faster then Anakin either. The Mustafar duel is far more impressive for both combatants then anything Bane and Zannah ever did.

Running speed isn't fighting speed.

Also whats so impressive about the Mustafar duel in terms of speed?

Other than Kenobi being able to keep up with Anakin, I'm not sure.

Not getting what Bane's speed has anything to do with it, he isn't in either duelist's speed tier so there is no point referencing running speed. He isn't even remotely as skilled as either, which is what everyone keeps avoiding. Seeing as this is a sabers only duel, and the closest Bane has ever had to beating someone(without armor/a nexus/) is Sirak- he gets killed by either duelist without either of them even trying.

Originally posted by ILS
Concession accepted >:]

I have to actually debate something to give a concession. But I will accept your concession that your Love for Grievous had no bounds

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I have to actually debate something to give a concession. But I will accept your concession that your Love for Grievous had no bounds But you did debate something.
To which I responded:
This is truly unfortunate, DARTH POWER.

Originally posted by ILS
But you did debate something.
To which I responded:
This is truly unfortunate, DARTH POWER.


Still can't see what I debated. Just pointed out something Dooku said being similar to what Filoni said.


Debating would be - No he didn't say that, you're wrong e.t.c.

Clearly your Love for Grievous has blinded you ILS.

You said that Dooku told Grievous he requires surprise, fear ect in order to beat Jedi. I corrected you in that he doesn't require those factors, only that having them ensures his victory beyond any doubt.

You're dragging this out more than you have to, DARTH POWER.

I probably should've brought up reflexes instead, but...oh well.

Regardless, Anakin and ObiWan have this solidly.

Surprised the mods haven't locked this, obviously the Sith are outclassed in very possible way

Originally posted by ILS
You said that Dooku told Grievous he requires surprise, fear ect in order to beat Jedi. I corrected you in that he doesn't require those factors, only that having them ensures his victory beyond any doubt.
.

I pointed out a fact whilst you're playing with semantics.

The fact that Dooku taught Grievous in 2 different sources to use Surprise and Intimidation against the Jedi to defeat them. There's really nothing to correct. And absolutely nothing to concede on my side because I haven't said anything wrong or even debateable as that's simply how Dooku trained Grievous to get the better of the Jedi on combat.

Filoni stated Grievous defeats capable Jedi by intimidating them. Fact.

Dooku taught Grievous to defeat Jedi using Intimidation and Surprise as his weapons. Also Fact.

Since I didn't argue that's the Only Way Grievous can defeat Any Jedi, there's simply nothing for me to concede as I never even made the argument.

Like I said it's only your love for Grievous dragging this conversation on.

---- Opinion, although sometimes yes Grievous uses intimidation to get the better of Jedi. Other times he plays with them in groups, fights Kit Fisto whilst not at 100%, and stalemates Mace Windu with impaired movement, so there's that.
Correct!
Well..
---- Nah, I just love talking to you.

Stark, who is your favorite character?

Originally posted by ILS
---- Opinion, although sometimes yes Grievous uses intimidation to get the better of Jedi. Other times he plays with them in groups, fights Kit Fisto whilst not at 100%, and stalemates Mace Windu with impaired movement, so there's that.
Correct!
Well..
---- Nah, I just love talking to you.


I said I'm pretty sure Dooku said Grievous needs Intimidation and Surprise on his side to beat the best of the Jedi.

Whilst you're clinging onto Dooku's exact wording being ensure not needs which you're right he uses that word in the OCW although I'm still not sure if he used that word in LOE. Either way I was talking about Grievous beating the best of the Jedi. Just like Dooku was.

So Again either your playing Semantics, or you just have to jump in every time anyone even hints at Grievous having a combat disadvantage even when compared to the Most Powerful Jedi in the Galaxy.

So whether you are Playing Semantics or honestly claiming Grievous actually has a chance in hell of defeating Yoda, Windu, Dooku or Skywalker in a fair fight, either way I think it best I just give you and Grievous some serious alone time together.

And FYI I don't actually have Filoni and Lucas locked up at gun point forcing them to agree with me. It just so happens I actually Listen to the Highest Canon authorities, instead of "clinging" on to the soon to be obsolete Legend sources where they clearly contradict the Highest Canon Authorities.

But I'm about 1 thing. I'm glad You don't have them locked in your basement. As I know you would just outright kill them for their statements on Grievous and ROTJ Luke.