TCW Anakin vs Darth Maul SOD

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carthage
Battle takes place on neutral ground

Angelalex242
TCW is essentially the same as his ROTS self. Anakin gets him. (By contrast, AOTC Anakin loses)

NewGuy01
No, RotS Anakin is on a different level altogether.

That said, TCW Anakin can still win this.

Stigma
Anakin can win this.

DARTH POWER
Honestly, it's a split but I'd probably give the edge to SOD Maul, given that this isn't ROTS Anakin.

NewGuy01
I dunno, even in TCW Anakin is pretty damn solid...

|King Joker|
Depends what season of TCW, honestly.

NewGuy01
I'd assume we're talking Season 5.

DARTH POWER
TCW Anakin is Powerful, and clearly a challenge for Count Dooku.

But TCW Maul is also pretty solid, and SOD Maul is Maul at his peak (for now). So I'd personally give him the edge until we get really close to ROTS.

McP
^
There is nothing that would suggest, that SoD Maul > TCWS5 Maul.
Since his duel with Sidious Maul was a prisoner. He run then, and lost some strenghts in a battle against Grievous and his droid army.

Jedi/Sith aren't saiyajins. They can't become much stronger after one or two fights.

Sinious
Doesn't Anakin dream-kill Dooku in the finale?

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by McP
^
There is nothing that would suggest, that SoD Maul > TCWS5 Maul.
Since his duel with Sidious Maul was a prisoner. He run then, and lost some strenghts in a battle against Grievous and his droid army.

Jedi/Sith aren't saiyajins. They can't become much stronger after one or two fights.


Actually there is.

The whole reason TCW Maul > TPM Maul is because of the increase in his overall Rage which had made him more powerful in the Dark Side.

With Maul's Brother getting murdered by Sidious at the end of S5 Maul's rage and lust for Revenge would have only increased. And increased again with the death of his Mother.

You are right though that 1 or 2 fights do not somehow increase your combat skill or anything. But life changing events can certainly have a permanent impact, especially on a being whose fueled by pure Rage.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Sinious
Doesn't Anakin dream-kill Dooku in the finale?


Yes proof that Anakin's already Uber in the Dream world.

Nalaniel
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yes proof that Anakin's already Uber in the Dream world.

Agreed. He never replicated that feat.

Sinious
thumb up

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Nalaniel
Agreed. He never replicated that feat.

Not until ROTS. No.

And it's hardly "replicating" when it wasn't even real the first time.

It was clearly a "vision" of sorts of what's to come.

McP
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The whole reason TCW Maul > TPM Maul is because of the increase in his overall Rage which had made him more powerful in the Dark Side.


That's possible. But there are other possibilities, like Talzin's intervention for example. Hard to tell, perhaps she was the one who made him stronger.

And yes, rage and hatered are great sources od the dark side. Anyway - unlike Anakin's hatered for himself - Maul's rage after Talzin's death might be temporary.

Nalaniel
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Not until ROTS. No.

And it's hardly "replicating" when it wasn't even real the first time.

It was clearly a "vision" of sorts of what's to come.

thumb up

Emperordmb
Originally posted by Sinious
Doesn't Anakin dream-kill Dooku in the finale?
Didn't Luke dream kill Vader in the cave?

Sinious
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Didn't Luke dream kill Vader in the cave?

So you're saying that Anakin, in a very small period of time(between finale of TCW and ROTS) surpassed Dooku? I think TCW itself depicts how the characters have grown in power and character throughout the Clone Wars and while Anakin wasn't able to keep up with Dooku in the beginning, he became powerful enough to defeat him at the end of the show. Luke decapitating Vader with random explosion effects in a magic cave isn't really the same thing with Anakin dream-killing Dooku.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Sinious
So you're saying that Anakin, in a very small period of time(between finale of TCW and ROTS) surpassed Dooku?

No

Emperordmb
I'm saying that people shouldn't throw around things that happen in vision as if they are actual feats.

Sinious
Originally posted by Nephthys
No

Why can't you be supportive for once?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'm saying that people shouldn't throw around things that happen in vision as if they are actual feats.

Well still, I think the show tells us how Anakin surpassed Dooku there. I doubt that it was a random dream sequence where anyone could kill Dooku.

Fated Xtasy
Originally posted by Sinious
Well still, I think the show tells us how Anakin surpassed Dooku there. I doubt that it was a random dream sequence where anyone could kill Dooku.

Well, dude - and i don't mean to be mean here - but would that mean Meetra>Darth Revan?

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Sinious


Well still, I think the show tells us how Anakin surpassed Dooku there. I doubt that it was a random dream sequence where anyone could kill Dooku.


What are you talking about? Anakin wasn't even there. Yoda, Sidious and possibly Dooku took part in this dream sequence together. Anakin was just an illusion.

Seen as Anakin chopped off Dooku's head in the dream, and seen as Yoda saw little snippets of the future throughout that story arc, it seems pretty clear to me that was another vision indicating what's to come in ROTS.

SIDIOUS 66
Maul. He's consistently force owned Obi Wan. Plus we've never fully seen him unleash himself on Kenobi, as he never aimed to kill him outright. Not to mention he held his own against Windu and Aayla at the same time, taking Aayla out with ease. His high end feats heavily outweigh his one low showing against Kenobi in the cave.

Anakin can win, depending on his state of mind. For example, he can casually dominate Ventress when he's angry, and press Dooku considerably, or straight up own Dooku (ROTS). When he tries to hold back his anger, he underperforms, and even Ventress gives him trouble then.

So it depends on how angry Anakin is and how much focus he has over it. If it's the Anakin who beat Dooku in ROTS, he'd win solidly, though I think Maul can hold on longer than Dooku by virtue of being physically stronger than Dooku.

carthage
This is TCW Anakin unless otherwise noted, I don't see why he'd be hindered anyway.

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by carthage
This is TCW Anakin unless otherwise noted, I don't see why he'd be hindered anyway.


What are you talking about?

He's not. Even in TCW, Anakin is a more threatening opponent when he uses his rage. He's casually dominated Ventress with the force and consistently gave Dooku a struggle. However, when he holds back his anger, even Ventress can give him hell, and Dooku does better against him, as seen in season 6 when he faced Dooku alongside Kenobi. Some people think Anakin and Kenobi underperform as a team. I disagree; I think they make an excellent team, but in the presence of Obi Wan, Anakin seems to hold back his anger.

carthage

DARTH POWER
Anakin does perform much better when angry. That being said, even when calm, he's still always a pretty solid fighter and doesn't have the sort of low showings Obi-Wan has Imo.

He's never lost to Ventress, not got beaten up by Cad Bane and even when Dooku's beating him, he's almost always held his own and never been owned by him the way Obi-Wan has. So he clearly has solid defenses.

This is a good fight. I only give Maul the edge because this is Maul at his peak. If this was Anakin at his peak(ROTS) I'd give him the solid win.

NewGuy01
In TCW's later days, Anakin consistently ragdolls figures like Ventress as well. Not to mention his feat with the Water Tower in early Season 4 is rather impressive as well.



To be fair, he's become vastly more powerful by that point. Still, in S4 he was almost able to defeat Dooku--he should definitely be taken seriously.

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by carthage



Yeah, and I stick by that statement.

Why do you disagree with that, my boy?

carthage
All I said was I couldn't find a reason why he'd be hindered and or his state of mind would affect his performance in TCW.

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by NewGuy01
In TCW's later days, Anakin consistently ragdolls figures like Ventress as well. Not to mention his feat with the Water Tower in early Season 4 is rather impressive as well.



To be fair, he's become vastly more powerful by that point. Still, in S4 he was almost able to defeat Dooku--he should definitely be taken seriously.


Other than their last confrontation in the series, when has Anakin owned Ventress? That's the only time I can think of, and he was very angry at the time. Other than that occasion, Ventress does rather well against him.

Yeah, he almost beat Dooku once, and always pressed him in all their one on one encounters in TCW, but Anakin hates Dooku with a passion and taps into the dark side (which is a quicker path to power) on account of that hatred. During season 6, he was less threatening to Dooku despite Kenobi fighting alongside him.

Anakin's performance fluctuate, and while his anger has been consistent in a lot of his fights in the series, I don't see him fighting Maul with as much raw hate as when he fights Dooku, unless Maul gives him a reason. Maul has consistently ragdolled Kenobi, while somewhat holding back and not even trying to kill him, whereas Ventress, who is basically Kenobi's equal, usually gives Anakin a good challenge.

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by carthage
All I said was I couldn't find a reason why he'd be hindered and or his state of mind would affect his performance in TCW.


Not hinder. It's just when very angry, Anakin usually gives people like Dooku a good challenge, and can even come close to defeating him.

Anakin's a beast all the time, and would be a challenge for Dooku, just not to the same extent as when he's angry.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Other than their last confrontation in the series, when has Anakin owned Ventress? That's the only time I can think of, and he was very angry at the time. Other than that occasion, Ventress does rather well against him.

I mean, he also does it to Bariss and the like; similarly capable Force users.



I don't think that was a low showing for Anakin, but a high showing for Dooku--he was, after all, on threat of imminent death from Sidious.



Uh, the dude murdered Qui-Gon. I don't think Anakin will need any more motivation to lop his head off.

Fated Xtasy
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Uh, the dude murdered Qui-Gon. I don't think Anakin will need any more motivation to lop his head off.

Can confirm. Tinykin tangos with Darth Maul in a vision in the Jedi Quest #1 and goes bezerk on his butt.

NewGuy01
Perfect example.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by NewGuy01




I don't think that was a low showing for Anakin, but a high showing for Dooku--he was, after all, on threat of imminent death from Sidious.



Whichever it was, it's clear Dooku was fighting better. But still Skywalker even in his lower performaces (like that one) tends to hold his own. And not get battered the way Obi-Wan did.

And Obi-Wan himself knows it, which is why he decided to fling push Anakin to chase Dooku solo.

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I mean, he also does it to Bariss and the like; similarly capable Force users.



I don't think that was a low showing for Anakin, but a high showing for Dooku--he was, after all, on threat of imminent death from Sidious.



Uh, the dude murdered Qui-Gon. I don't think Anakin will need any more motivation to lop his head off.


I don't think his performance with Barriss is comparable, especially since he wasn't trying to kill her. He certainly was angry, but I don't think he was trying to focus his rage in an effort to kill her as he does against Dooku.

It wasn't a low showing for Anakin at all. He did well, just not as threatening when he's going all out and focusing his rage to kill Dooku. When he is in the presence of Kenobi he tends to hold back his rage. Even in ROTS, he battered the hell out of Dooku once Obi Wan was unconscious and out of the fight, but when Kenobi was still in the picture, Dooku was doing a lot better and holding his own even against their combined effort. I don't think their battle in season 6 was a high showing for Dooku at all. He's bested Ventress and two other nightsisters while drugged and blind. In fact, Ventress has never shown to be a match for Dooku, whereas she has consistently did well against Anakin. Dooku is just that good, and I don't see Anakin pulling off Dooku's consistent showings. Anakin is more powerful than Dooku, but lacks Dooku's command over his actualized power. It's only when he's focusing his anger, that he can defeat Dooku. But as far as pressing Dooku those other times, well I don't think that's beyond Maul's ability at all.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I don't think his performance with Barriss is comparable, especially since he wasn't trying to kill her. He certainly was angry, but I don't think he was trying to focus his rage in an effort to kill her as he does against Dooku.

That was in reference to you saying Anakin ragdolling Ventress was inconsistent, bro. He ragdolled Bariss as well, and she's a similarly capable Force user by this point.



Nor do I.

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by NewGuy01
That was in reference to you saying Anakin ragdolling Ventress was inconsistent, bro. He ragdolled Bariss as well, and she's a similarly capable Force user by this point.



Nor do I.


He did not ragdoll Barriss nearly to the same extent as he did Ventress. Barriss gave him an intense fight before he overpowered her with the force, and that was after he became extremely pissed. Dooku would demolish Barriss without even thinking. The best Ventress has ever done against Dooku one on one, was clash blades with him for about 10 seconds, before being ragdolled. Ventress is absolutely no match, or even a challenge to Dooku on her own, whereas she's consistently done well against Anakin even when backed by Kenobi. If his ragdolling of Ventress was consistent, then it would have been consistent, which it wasn't, not in TCW anyway.

Since when is Barriss a similarly capable force user to Ventress? You do realize that in the series, Barriss is still merely a padawan, right? I wasn't much impressed with Anakin's performance there. That's why I didn't understand why you brought it up, TBH. Other than sneak attacking Ventress, what feats put her on par? I don't even think any of her EU or her OCW showings were taken into account due to the fact that she was stated to be a padawan on the official website.

|King Joker|
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Since when is Barriss a similarly capable force user to Ventress? You do realize that in the series, Barriss is still merely a padawan, right? I wasn't much impressed with Anakin's performance there. That's why I didn't understand why you brought it up, TBH. Other than sneak attacking Ventress, what feats put her on par? I don't even think any of her EU or her OCW showings were taken into account due to the fact that she was stated to be a padawan on the official website. Barriss infiltrated the Republic prison without being caught, and not even Anakin or Ahsoka could sense her. I'm assuming she was using some kind of Force stealth/cloak to hide her Force signature or just disappear. And she choked Letta Turmond to death while not even being in the same room.

Not saying she is near Ventress, but those are some Force feats I recall that are pretty impressive.

DARTH POWER
She also got a sneak attack on Ventress, and Ventress even pointed out not many people could do that to her.

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
She also got a sneak attack on Ventress, and Ventress even pointed out not many people could do that to her.


Implying that it was a force user who attacked her.

DARTH POWER
^ Personally think she was implying it was a High End Force user.

DARTH POWER
Another nice force feat of Skywalker's (he was pretty consistent in the latter seasons of TCW) was in S6 running from Embo. When he sent those huge Ice bergs flying towards Embo.

That was on top of anticipating his surprise sniper attack in the first place, and TK'ing Embo at the end. These were all impressive because they were all immediate feats in the middle of combat.

There's also the fact that Skywalker pretty much tanked all of Dooku's Tk in "Crisis on Naboo."

Honestly I'd say TCW Skywalker (later half of the series that is) is on par with TCW Maul in Tk.

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