Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I'm preparing for my debate with Nova tomorrow so I was looking through all his arguments. This one caught my attention:

Could Surik take Zannah in a duel Ant?

Surik would TK a grave behind Zannah so she would trip, fall, and die on impact.

Holy shit! That hurts my brain.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Holy shit! That hurts my brain.
And you guys say Carthage/Jack is bad... this is on a whole different level.

This (ShootingNova) is the guy so many people jerk off?!!!

Where did he post that message?

In a pm or thread?

Yes, he is considered the head debater of CV and is ILS's god. I'm having a Traya vs Revan debate with him, lol. He's going to get slaughtered.

Originally posted by carthage
Where did he post that message?

In a pm or thread?
Thread. You want link?

sure

Knock yourself out: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/star-wars-championship-r1-shootingnova-vs-tparks-1563118/

Wait wut?

She can ragdoll Bane though and neither of them have any resistance to drain.

Given how poor of a duelist Zannah is, unless Surik has been beaten by someone lower than Set Harth- I really doubt Zannah would win

Force: Traya > Surik > Zannah > Bane

Saber: Surik > Traya > Bane > Zannah

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yes, he is considered the head debater of CV and is ILS's god. *JT*

Force: Bane > Traya> Surik > Zannah

Saber: Bane > Surik> Traya > Zannah

Aside from Zannah, Ant's chains are better

Bane isn't better in the force than Traya, everything else is correct though.

Bane obliterates the Exile whilst Zannah and Traya have some Harry Potter wizard duel, then Traya gets gangbanged 2v1. Again.

Zannah would die to drain or Traya's TK, there is no force battle between them.

What un-amped feats does Bane have that compares to wiping out a small army of Sith led by one of the most powerful Sith of all time in the Trayus Academy whilst severely ill both physically and mentally?

Prime Surik > Prime Bane.

Traya, Sion and hundreds of the strongest Triumvirate Sith all strongly amped > Bane.

Bane off nexus has broken boxes, tents, and a table when he hurled it into a wall, he's also killed fodder guards.

None of that compares to Traya's feats at all, his lightning can also be dodged.

How in the name of all that is Jaden Korr, is Kavar Bane Level? what the **** does Vrook have that makes him = to Zannah and Zez...? Kerra level?

dear god that's stupid as hell.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
This (ShootingNova) is the guy so many people jerk off?!!!

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Holy shit! That hurts my brain.

Who cares what Nova says? Jesus Christ... if he's as unimportant and poor a debater as everyone makes out they wouldn't bother talking about him in the first place. And nobody jerks him off. I'm just saying - constantly bitching about an individual behind closed doors is a bad look, and it's dumb. Especially for people like Fated who Nova has complimented/tried to talk to in the past.

Especially coming from a guy like Fated who routinely loses debates

Originally posted by carthage
Especially coming from a guy like Fated who hasn't won a single debate, ever.

As far as I know, Kerra Holt hasn't done anything that would really escalate her past Zez levels, I'm not sure what's so ridiculous about that.

Originally posted by ILS
. Especially for people like Fated who Nova has complimented/tried to talk to in the past.

Oh he's a nice guy, his respect threads are great. But as someone who knows Kotor 2 like the back of his hand and has read nearly all the bane material, It's kinda hard to see "Kavar=Bane" because it's a stretch, like a really big stretch. He's not stupid, I don't mean to imply that. but that argument is pretty ridiculous to say the least.

KOTOR 2 wankers (For lack of a better term ala "SWTORians" tend to be like that, and sadly, Nova fits into that category.

I'm not seeing it as a stretch, Bane isn't particularly skilled and his mid level power is all he has going for him. Assuming Nova is making a logical connection between the two and he can substantiate on his claim, there is probably something to what he is saying. Also lmao @ Fated's backtracking:

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Oh he's a nice guy, his respect threads are great. But as someone who knows Kotor 2 like the back of his hand and has read nearly all the bane material, It's kinda hard to see "Kavar=Bane" is a stretch, like a really big stretch. He's not stupid, I don't mean to imply. but that argument is pretty ridiculous to say the least. So Nova making a "ridiculous argument" warrants him being discredited as a debater by several people, every time this occurs?

I would probably break my keyboard trying to do the same for the Bane crew, tbh. You guys are leagues more ridiculous than the people you b*tch about.

Nova's cool, imo.

Originally posted by ILS
So Nova making a "ridiculous argument" warrants him being discredited as a debater by several people, every time this occurs?

look at Kavar's feats before you even start talking dude.

Force Stuns soldiers.

Kills soldiers.

......That's it.

That doesn't compare to Bane. Nobody's discrediting him. that single argument, is ridiculous. he's not ridiculous as a whole. He was nice enough to do me a favor and i appreciate that. don't twist my words pumkin.



This is the only time we've even talked about Nova.....Like the only time for me, Dmb and the others.... we're not constantly obsessing over ever little **** up or some shit calm your shit dude.

And don't pretend to act all sanctimonious when you've been trolling around here too pumpkin. I helped you once against Nova. don't try to demonize me

You were discrediting him by joining in with the "this is the guy everyone jacks off?!" part. And again, it's not like ridiculous arguments haven't been made on anyone else's part in the past.
I'm perfectly calm, lol. I just don't see why KMC in general loses their shit every time Nova says something they disagree with - him specifically. You joining in makes you a part of that. Tis how things work.

Lol. My trolling is usually harmless but admittedly quite effective. When did you "help me" against him btw?

Regardless, team 2 obviously wins here unless giga-drain is on the table. In which case its the other way around.

How sure are we that Bane and Zannah wouldn't be able to defend against Traya's attack?

Team 2 bloodbath tbh

Team one would Slaughter either way, Giga drain or no.

Traya > Bane
Surik > Zannah tbh.

Surik > Bane too but that's an argument for another day.

Bane yet again has nothing on either Traya or Surik without nexus feats.

Bane with Orbalisk protection, a nexus amp and a rage amp teamed with Zannah also with a nexus amp couldn't defeat a team of five Jedi. Two of whom are featless and one of whom was too busy employing Battle Meditation. Said Battle Meditation being the only counter balance to the Sith's own considerable advantages.

Traya TK ragdolled three Jedi Masters(Four if you account for Lonna Vash's cut content) and giga drained them with barely any visible effort on her part.

Surik soloed the entire Trayus Academy including Sion and Traya ontop of the second most powerful nexus of Dark Side energy ever, through sheer lightsaber skill.

Hate to sound like a broken record but seriously Surik's best feat is so pathetically lowballed and outright ignored on nearly ever forum.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
KOTOR 2 wankers (For lack of a better term ala "SWTORians"
Um, what?

Anyway, Team 1. The marginal difference between Bane, and especially Zannah, and Surik does not make up for the synergy these two have together and Traya's power level.

Originally posted by appletonia
How sure are we that Bane and Zannah wouldn't be able to defend against Traya's attack?

There's no evidence to the contrary.

Originally posted by Selenial
Team one would Slaughter either way, Giga drain or no.

Traya > Bane
Surik > Zannah tbh.

Surik > Bane too but that's an argument for another day.

Without her drain Bane would kick the crap out of Traya. He can charge through her powers and easily overwhelm her in close quarters. Or he can obliterate her with lightning. The same goes for Surik.

On the flipside, Zannah would similarly kill either. Neither is getting through her defenses, force or sabers, and her mental assault would overwhelm both of them.

Lol at Zannah being better at TP than Traya, much lols.

Her defense was never tested against a master swordsman, Bane pales in comparison to Surik so don't even try that.

Are you trying to say Bane is stronger than all three members of the council put together? Traya is a force Titan that would play with him like a toy. She never faced an opponent she could not overwhelm with the force other than Surik, which is a testament to Suriks power not the other way around.

Bane wouldn't last against Traya to be honest, she's simply better.

Same with Zannah and Surik, Soresu cannot compare to a master of Juyo, that's stated in multiple sources, a dueling form that Surik happened to Perfect.

What you seem to forget is that Wound-Meetra can feed off an Opponents knowledge and learn their force forms and Lightsaber forms in seconds, diagnosing any weakness immediately. She'll know how to break through Zannah.

Not to mention their Force bond allows Traya all of Suriks boosts, Stamina, Strength, enlightenment, Force Resistance, everything. Even her skill in the art of Dueling, which as almost everyone bar you can admit, is the strongest here.

Sorcery isn't telepathy. Zannah's schtick is different than Kreia's thing. And it is better. Bane was able to laugh off Kaan's mental influence, the guy who was playing hundreds of Sith Lords as his puppets, yet was on his knees to Zannah. Bane has some of the best mental resistance of any character, yet her fully charged spell would have torn his mind in half. Traya couldn't even resist Malachor.

Bane can likely blitz Surik. Or at least finish her very quickly. He's a far superior duelist.

Yes. Traya caught them off guard when she attacked though. Hardly a ragdoll. And you mean other than Surik and Nihilus, surely?

Better at dying maybe. But in little other area.

Source that says she's perfect in the forms she copies? That she can use them doesn't indicate complete mastery like Bane and Zannah possess. And lawl, Bane's Juyo didn't get through Zannah's defenses. Why would a weaker, slower, less powerful duelist get through when he couldn't?

Seconds is an exaggeration, as you are wont to do. Nor does she diagnose their weaknesses. Please stop making shit up, as a Kotor 2 fan it's embarrassing.

The Force bond won't make a difference. It's hardly as big a factor as you make it out to be and never has been.

Originally posted by Nephthys
There's no evidence to the contrary.

The fact that they're transcendentally powerful Force Users?

KOTOR 2's story isn't so fresh in my mind so I was wondering if there was any evidence that the technique had no defence or something. Using it on the three council members or a dozen Sith Assassins is a far cry from being able to use it on Bane and Zannah.

Originally posted by Selenial
Lol at Zannah being better at TP than Traya, much lols.

Her defense was never tested against a master swordsman, Bane pales in comparison to Surik so don't even try that.

Are you trying to say Bane is stronger than all three members of the council put together? Traya is a force Titan that would play with him like a toy. She never faced an opponent she could not overwhelm with the force other than Surik, which is a testament to Suriks power not the other way around.

Bane wouldn't last against Traya to be honest, she's simply better.

Same with Zannah and Surik, Soresu cannot compare to a master of Juyo, that's stated in multiple sources, a dueling form that Surik happened to Perfect.

What you seem to forget is that Wound-Meetra can feed off an Opponents knowledge and learn their force forms and Lightsaber forms in seconds, diagnosing any weakness immediately. She'll know how to break through Zannah.

Not to mention their Force bond allows Traya all of Suriks boosts, Stamina, Strength, enlightenment, Force Resistance, everything. Even her skill in the art of Dueling, which as almost everyone bar you can admit, is the strongest here.

Jesus H. Christ...

Traya say theres no defense.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane can likely blitz Surik. Or at least finish her very quickly. He's a far superior duelist.

Yes. And you mean other than Surik and Nihilus, surely?

Better at dying maybe. But in little other area.

Source that says she's perfect in the forms she copies? That she can use them doesn't indicate complete mastery like Bane and Zannah possess. And lawl, Bane's Juyo didn't get through Zannah's defenses. Why would a weaker, slower, less powerful duelist get through when he couldn't?

Seconds is an exaggeration, as you are wont to do. Nor does she diagnose their weaknesses. Please stop making shit up, as a Kotor 2 fan it's embarrassing.

The Force bond won't make a difference. It's hardly as big a factor as you make it out to be and never has been.

How on earth is Bane a stronger duelist. And faster? Ok, if Bane has feats of dodging lightsaber strikes from the Shadow Hand of Darth Nihilus long enough to literally pummel her into submission?

"I am studying your technique." "You think you can learn my technique just by watching? It takes a Jedi Master years to perfect it." "It takes a Jedi years to learn anything, restricted as they are by the Jedi. Nevertheless I have learned your form and will use it to end you" "it's not possible... You... You must be stopped."

Or

"I will kill you with your own tricks. Your techniques are so easily learned now." So... Yeh, if you're going to kill a Juyo master with Juyo, you at least match their abilities.

Prove that Bane > Surik then.

As for Force Bonds, they really do, your knowledge is pitiful.

Seriously, "as a kotor 2 fan" You're an embarrassment.

It's going down. Though tbh, Bane would demolish Surik and Traya.

Bane has no dueling feats that remotely compare to Surik's handling of Imperial Guardsmen and complete slaughter of the Sith Triumvirate on Malachor V.

Bane was getting thrashed in a duel by Raskta Lsu despite having literal plot armor and two amps to her own comparatively minor one.

Surik also has superior Battle Precog and Echani Precog feats than Bane can compare to, Lsu proved this case in her own right. Surik analysed and reacted against, almost immediately TK killing a merc, all in the space of half a second, goodluck blitzing that.

Bane has nothing on his belt without nexus amplification to suggest he is superior to Surik.

Also I'd love to see how you think Zannah > Traya in any department Neph.

Zannah uses mental assaults and the horror variant pretty exclusively off nexus, taking down Jedi such as Sarro Xaj. Traya has manipluated the minds and memories of numerous Jedi, including Jedi Masters without them even knowing about it.

Zannah has used Force Cloak techniques to strong degrees, enough to get a stealth kill on Lsu in mid-combat. Traya uses such techniques constantly with apparent ease to their highest degrees, hiding in plain sight from Jedi Masters and even travelling companions.

Zannah has with the aid of Lake Nath, an immense Dark Side nexus, summoned tendrils of pure Dark Side energy. Traya has drained Jedi Masters and Sith alike with ease and has shown Dark Healing abilities of the highest degree., all without a nexus.

Zannah has telekinetically assaulted Jedi and Darth Bane, Darth Traya effortlessly ragdolled High Council members with ease and has shown complete mastery of telekinesis with telekinetic lightsaber combat.

I could go on.

Tbh, Revan's display of telekinetic lightsaber combat is probably superior to Traya's.

Which display?

Originally posted by Selenial
How on earth is Bane a stronger duelist. And faster? Ok, if Bane has feats of dodging lightsaber strikes from the Shadow Hand of Darth Nihilus long enough to literally pummel her into submission?

"I am studying your technique." "You think you can learn my technique just by watching? It takes a Jedi Master years to perfect it." "It takes a Jedi years to learn anything, restricted as they are by the Jedi. Nevertheless I have learned your form and will use it to end you" "it's not possible... You... You must be stopped."

Or

"I will kill you with your own tricks. Your techniques are so easily learned now." So... Yeh, if you're going to kill a Juyo master with Juyo, you at least match their abilities.

Prove that Bane > Surik then.

As for Force Bonds, they really do, your knowledge is pitiful.

Seriously, "as a kotor 2 fan" You're an embarrassment.

LOL. Art thou mad, sister?

Well for one thing Bane's level of skill is actually quantifiable. His skill is comparable to Kas'im's, by all accounts Bane was a master all the lightsaber forms. He's a physical beast in terms of strength and speed. Lol at that BS feat. Visas has no lightsaber showings, how the fight went down is unknown and Bane evading Zannah unarmed, someone with actual speed feats, is far far more impressive.

Nothing indicating full mastery. And Vrook and Kavar are both featless in terms of dueling. Your statement is also false, theres plenty of ways to beat a more skilled duelist.

Bane's destruction of the Temple of the Ancients, his disintegration lightning and TK, his sheer strength and speed and numerous other advantages prove that. You need to prove Meetra wouldn't recieve the Nyriss treatment from him or Zannah.

The only difference it'll make is that when Bane cut's Traya's head off Meetra will probably shit herself as well before Zannah makes it a combo. Or perhaps Meetra being forced into insanity will make Traya go crazy....er as well. Not sure which will happen first tbh.

Against the Strike Teams on the Temple of Sacrifice. It's called "Force Wield." He throws around Alek's and his Mando Wars' lightsaber around the battlefield while being locked in a death battle with actual lightsabers against 8 of "the galaxy's most powerful champions."

Kavar and Vrook are both confirmed Masters of lightsaber combat, if they can teach someone to "mastery" of a form, they themselves have mastered it.

Visas is an assassin nonetheless, and you're thinking of the wrong duel. She was forced to face Visas with no blade by Traya, and no force attacks, and she won.

TBH AP covered the rest when he slaughtered you in the previous post, I don't need to say anything else.

Which is still an unknown level of skill, even were that true. Thousands of Jedi Knights and Masters have "mastered" their forms, yet get swatted aside by actually competent fighters. Big deal.

I assume that's cut content.

I didn't read his post. I'm talking to you, not him.

Bane has no dueling feats that remotely compare to Surik's handling of Imperial Guardsmen and complete slaughter of the Sith Triumvirate on Malachor V.

Bane was getting thrashed in a duel by Raskta Lsu despite having literal plot armor and two amps to her own comparatively minor one.

Surik also has superior Battle Precog and Echani Precog feats than Bane can compare to, Lsu proved this case in her own right. Surik analysed and reacted against, almost immediately TK killing a merc, all in the space of half a second, goodluck blitzing that.

Bane has nothing on his belt without nexus amplification to suggest he is superior to Surik.

Also I'd love to see how you think Zannah > Traya in any department Neph.

Zannah uses mental assaults and the horror variant pretty exclusively off nexus, taking down Jedi such as Sarro Xaj. Traya has manipluated the minds and memories of numerous Jedi, including Jedi Masters without them even knowing about it.

Zannah has used Force Cloak techniques to strong degrees, enough to get a stealth kill on Lsu in mid-combat. Traya uses such techniques constantly with apparent ease to their highest degrees, hiding in plain sight from Jedi Masters and even travelling companions.

Zannah has with the aid of Lake Nath, an immense Dark Side nexus, summoned tendrils of pure Dark Side energy. Traya has drained Jedi Masters and Sith alike with ease and has shown Dark Healing abilities of the highest degree., all without a nexus.

Zannah has telekinetically assaulted Jedi and Darth Bane, Darth Traya effortlessly ragdolled High Council members with ease and has shown complete mastery of telekinesis with telekinetic lightsaber combat.

I could go on.


There, you can reply now

Originally posted by Selenial
Kavar and Vrook are both confirmed Masters of lightsaber combat, if they can teach someone to "mastery" of a form, they themselves have mastered it.

You're kinda running off track Sel.

- They didn't train her in that form to "mastery" it was because of her superior learning ability attributed her by her wound. not them.

- We don't know what form any of the masters utilized, it is all dependent on what class(and prestige class) the player chooses. for we all know they could have been users of the force forms.

- I certainly hope you're not using Traya's quote of lightsaber combat for Vrook, Zez and Kavar. that's a quote for her, not for them.

Bane and Zannah win.

Prima Guide says the masters were superior Force Users then Lightsaber combatants.

POD Bane's skill ain't comparable to Kas'im's at all, Kas'Im switched things up and immediately Bane was losing. Bane won that fight through a telekinetic wave that collapsed the entrance on-top of the Twi'lek.

ROT Bane's skill was completely outmatched by Raskta Lsu's despite three massive advantages.

DOE Bane's skill has only allowed him to defeat Zannah, whom was already confirmed to be less skilled than her master in the first place.

MandoWars! Surik's skill allowed her a lead from the front style of leadership in places as hellish as Dxun and win against some of the deadliest Mandalorians in history.

TSL Surik's skill allowed her to fight through several major forces of opponents from the front and win all of them. Not to mention completely devastate the deadliest Sith the Triumvirate had to offer, including two of their leaders, all amped exponentially whilst fighting at, at best 80% strength and win solidly.

'Revan' Surik's skill allowed her to kill multiple Imperial Guard simultaneously whilst right infront of the Emperor, said Imperial Guard being the guys that make Dark Council members check under their beds at night.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
You're kinda running off track Sel.

- They didn't train her in that form to "mastery" it was because of her superior learning ability attributed her by her wound. not them.

- We don't know what form any of the masters utilized, it is all dependent on what class(and prestige class) the player chooses. for we all know they could have been users of the force forms.

- I certainly hope you're not using Traya's quote of lightsaber combat for Vrook, Zez and Kavar. that's a quote for her, not for them.

Bane and Zannah win.

The fact that we essentially have confirmed by ourselves that Surik followed the Guardian path due to numerous sourcebook statements referring to martial/saber skill based victories, then the lightsaber forms almost certainly would have been taught.

Now as much as I'd love to sit around and wax poetic with all of you, I have a new year to go and celebrate.

Happy New Year.

Originally posted by AncientPower
POD Bane's skill ain't comparable to Kas'im's at all, Kas'Im switched things up and immediately Bane was losing. Bane won that fight through a telekinetic wave that collapsed the entrance on-top of the Twi'lek.

Nope, even after switching his forms up, Bane still had the edge and pushed him back. It was only after Kas'im used Jar'Kai that he pushed Bane back.



No... initially, he was caught off guard, then he tked her ass and then elbowed her. also you forget that Bane was taking on 3 opponents, Raskta, farfalla and Jothun. all amped by battle meditation.




She forced her people to push forward which resulted in their deaths. the vision on Korriban is her "doing it right this time"



One is a guy who can revive himself and survived the fall of two empires. What else is there? Nihilus is an immensely power thing, obviously. Doesn't change the fact that Meetra was a wound and he was weakened when he drained her and when Visas disrupted their connection. Kreia is a master of combat. Kas'im transcends it, perfecting each form and being regarded as the greatest living duelist. Raskta's skill is considered unparalleled a master of combat.

Neither Sion nor Traya compare to Raskta or Kas'im as duelists.



That's impressive, Sure. Doesn't change the fact that Raskta, Kas'im and even Zananh. are superior opponents.

Happy New Years AP Have fun!

I guess all of the pointless crap Fated type would matter if Traya couldn't simply ragdoll and or kill Bane with drain or telekinesis.

Wait so, Seleniel and Ancient Power are going on about mastery of lightsaber forms, yet they brush of Bane before his prime driving back Kas'im, a duelist who mastered all seven forms of lightsaber combat then spent decades perfecting each and every move and sequence?

@Nephthys As far as Bane's willpower goes, your example of Bane shrugging off Kaan's influence is very impressive, and it's also worth noting that Bane's willpower increases very notably between POD/ROT and DOE. In ROT, the pain of his lightning and the orbalisks burrowing into him and exploding inside of him knocked him into unconsciousness. In DOE however, after suffering the far far more painful loss of his arm to a tendril, Bane still maintained the composure and willpower for the ritual of essence transfer.

As far as the fight on Tython goes, I knew nexuses were wanked, but calling a nexus a massive advantage while calling battle meditation a minor one? Really?!

As far as Raskta Lsu goes, the blows she got on his armor were a result of him not utilizing defensive techniques to protect his body because he didn't have to. Bane's entire fighting style in ROT is tooled around the fact that he doesn't have to defend his body. And as far as her driving him back goes, that is clearly a feint and a tactic of subterfuge on Bane's part meant to allow him to catch them off guard by charging Worror, as Raskta later on needs the assistance of Farfalla and Johun to drive Bane into a defensive stance. Now it seems silly to lowball Bane's fight against Raskta Lsu, because at one point in his duel with her, he managed to throw her on her ass with an unpredictable maneuver, and she has the Echani penchant for predicting her opponents moves as well as having battle meditation and being the greatest duelist in the Jedi order. Now when Bane revamps his fighting style after losing the orbalisks, he places a very special emphasis on unpredictability, and a guy who can catch a BM amped Echani best duelist in the Jedi order off guard with his unpredictability before retooling his style to be far far more unpredictable is not somebody to be taken lightly. And to address the lowballing of Bane in this fight, in DOE Bane is significantly faster than in ROT, and he actually incorporates defensive maneuvers to protect his body, unlike in ROT.

None of that makes him a skilled duelist, he knew every single lightsaber form yet still got driven back and killed by a guy that was training for a year max. Why do you keep wanking this guy?



Its a minor advantage when Bane is amped by the Tython nexus, amped by the orbalisks, and nearly invulnerable to lightsaber strikes. Not to mention only Raskta was worth her salt as a duelist, and they're all utterly featless. Bane beating them with 3x more advantages is not a sign of his skill

Prove DOE Bane was faster than Orbalisk Bane, the guy could barely dodge rain drops. Armor Nexus Bane made his lightsaber appear everywhere, formed a whirlwind with his blade, and created 12 afterimages. DOE Bane has literally nothing comparing to that

Lol @Carthage calling characters with actual feats featless while ignoring the actually featless Jedi Masters that kreia killed.

keep trolling Carthage

Originally posted by AncientPower
The fact that we essentially have confirmed by ourselves that Surik followed the Guardian path due to numerous sourcebook statements referring to martial/saber skill based victories, then the lightsaber forms almost certainly would have been taught.

Plus she says Blue, the color of the jedi guardian and chose a blue blade.
But yeh, I'm off for new year too.

Later all.

I said she was featless as a duelist. Also Bane's force showings are nothing compared to Traya's, he has no defense against drain and no showings of barrier to suggest he can stop himself from being ragdolled.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Nope, even after switching his forms up, Bane still had the edge and pushed him back. It was only after Kas'im used Jar'Kai that he pushed Bane back.

Hence switching it up.

No... initially, he was caught off guard, then he tked her ass and then elbowed her. also you forget that Bane was taking on 3 opponents, Raskta, farfalla and Jothun. all amped by battle meditation.

His telekinetic attack and elbow were the only real offense he managed the entire time, Jothun is featless and it's made clear Lsu was saving him from Bane as much if not more than he was actually aiding her. Lsu basically told Farfalla he was a noob and just getting in the way, his only real aid to her was a barrier. Said Battle Meditation Amplification is completely overcome by Bane's nexus and rage amps combined with his plot armor that evidently saved his ass.

She forced her people to push forward which resulted in their deaths. the vision on Korriban is her "doing it right this time"

That was but one section of the event, the KotOR comics, Campaign Guide and Prima Guide make Dxun a far far larger engagement.

One is a guy who can revive himself and survived the fall of two empires. What else is there? Nihilus is an immensely power thing, obviously. Doesn't change the fact that Meetra was a wound and he was weakened when he drained her and when Visas disrupted their connection. Kreia is a master of combat. Kas'im transcends it, perfecting each form and being regarded as the greatest living duelist. Raskta's skill is considered unparalleled a master of combat.

Darth Sion was a Marauder of Kun's Empire and survived the war, he went on to kill Jedi for decades before serving under Revan. Traya's chastisement of him is completely overblown, He has immense experience in killing Jedi Knights and even Masters.

Neither Sion nor Traya compare to Raskta or Kas'im as duelists.

Sion shouldn't be underestimated but I agree, Traya may not have the technical exertise of either but she is regardless a master duelist and evidently skilled enough to employ telekinetic lightsaber combat, which is stated to require truly excellent saber knowledge.

However, what you have ignored is both the severe disparagement in terms of combat advantages and the fact that Surik successfully ran a guantlet of:

Elite Triumvirate Sith(100s) > Darth Sion x4 > Darth Traya

She came out on top despite being at perhaps 70-80% strength whilst her opponents had basically unlimited energy and power.

This is accredited directly to her lightsaber skill.

That's impressive, Sure. Doesn't change the fact that Raskta, Kas'im and even Zananh. are superior opponents.

Raskta and Kas'im possibly and perhaps even likely have greater technical skill and knowledge but that is not all a duelist requires. As Dooku has said before, a true master of a single form can best a master of all. Surik has one of the best lightsaber feats in the mythos.

Zannah? Her entire style is just to wait it out until she has essentially charged her sorcery powers, she is lacking severely in the offensive department. Here is the thing Surik ain't getting tired any time soon and she has faced extreme mental effects before and tanked it.

Zannah has only beaten Set Harth, the odds of her being better than Surik are pretty much zilch. And again she has no resistance to being ragdolled or drained by Traya

Anyway seriously I need to get offline now and talk to you all on the 2nd.

Happy new year

Originally posted by Nephthys
Visas has no lightsaber showings, how the fight went down is unknown
KoTOR-CG reveals Visas impaling an HK series droid.

In addition, Surik actually outdueled Visas:

As Nihilus's Shadow Hand, Visas does her lord's bidding. This includes tracking down a disturbance in the Force that turns out to be the Jedi Exile. They cross lightsabers, and Visas is summarily beaten, subsequently vowing loyalty to her vanquisher.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane's destruction of the Temple of the Ancients, his disintegration lightning and TK, his sheer strength and speed and numerous other advantages prove that. You need to prove Meetra wouldn't recieve the Nyriss treatment from him or Zannah.

The only difference it'll make is that when Bane cut's Traya's head off Meetra will probably shit herself as well before Zannah makes it a combo. Or perhaps Meetra being forced into insanity will make Traya go crazy....er as well. Not sure which will happen first tbh.
This confrontation isn't as easy as it seems. Traya poses major threat to any individual of Team 2, she can create problems for Team 2 with Force Drain, providing an opportunity to Surik to take advantage.

Nonetheless, good fight. I believe that setting can also make difference in this clash, a nexus would really help Team 2.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
KoTOR-CG reveals Visas comfortably impaling an HK series droid.

In addition, Surik actually outdueled Visas:

As Nihilus's Shadow Hand, Visas does her lord's bidding. This includes tracking down a disturbance in the Force that turns out to be the Jedi Exile. They cross lightsabers, and Visas is summarily beaten, subsequently vowing loyalty to her vanquisher.


This confrontation isn't as easy as it seems. Traya poses major threat to any individual of Team 2, she can create problems for Team 2 with Force Drain, providing an opportunity to Surik to take advantage.

Nonetheless, good fight. I believe that setting can also make difference in this clash, a nexus would really help Team 2.

That's probably not canon. Plus T3 killed 2 of those droids at once, they are a shadow of the original.

I wasn't aware the Exile could even possess a lightsaber by that point.

Yes, drain swings it in her favor if she has it. Otherwise she is outmatched. In particular Bane will slaughter the one armed woman in lightsaber combat, battering her saber out of her hand or blitzing her.

He didn't blitz Zannah and Zannah has no particularly good speed feats, so you have no real evidence he can blitz her.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That's probably not canon. Plus T3 killed 2 of those droids at once, they are a shadow of the original.
Its an official depiction nonetheless.

T3-M4 is one of the toughest utility droids every built, heavily customized for combat roles.

Still, a well-armed HK series droid is a force to be reckoned with irrespective of the model.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I wasn't aware the Exile could even possess a lightsaber by that point.
Strange.

You sure that Surik didn't had a lightsaber at this point?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, drain swings it in her favor if she has it. Otherwise she is outmatched. In particular Bane will slaughter the one armed woman in lightsaber combat, battering her saber out of her hand or blitzing her.
Aren't you assuming (Prime) Traya?

Nova's opinion was straight toxic, holy shit, kek.