Vader, Plagueis and Malgus vs. Exar Kun, Caedus and Krayt

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Stigma
Conditions: This is RotJ Vader, Emperor Malgus, Exar Kun with amulets and Reborn Krayt. Plagueis and Caedus are at their peak.

Setting: Forests of Endor

No prep is given. It's an all-out battle.

Who wins?

NewGuy01
Eh, but siding with 2.

AncientPower
Team 2, solidly.

S_W_LeGenD
Great battle. Either Team can win depending upon decisions made.

carthage
Probably team 2

Emperordmb
Holy shit this is a good match-up. I'm not sure.

S_W_LeGenD
Indeed

Q99
I lean team 2, but it's close. Caedus is likely the strongest here, which doesn't hurt.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Vitiate solos

Sinious
Team 2 has an edge.

Selenial
Jesus, nicely done Stigma.

I'd give team two the slight edge.

carthage
Good fight though

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Q99
I lean team 2, but it's close. Caedus is likely the strongest here, which doesn't hurt.
I am not sure about this since both Plagueis and Malgus can handle him. However, Vader is punching above his weight in this contest and this is the problem for Team 1.

Team 2 is extremely well done. Nonetheless great fight.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am not sure about this since both Plagueis and Malgus can handle him. However, Vader is punching above his weight in this contest and this is the problem for Team 1.

Team 2 is extremely well done.
Vat?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Vat?
Malgus (Emperor) is a TIER 9 Sith Lord. He have powers and raw power at this point that impressed even Sidious and set the basis for development of Force Storm (Wormhole) power for Sidious.

Malgus's maelstrom powers will be a big problem to overcome for anybody in Team 2, if it is even possible, since Malgus conjures up a powerful protection bubble to protect himself while unleashing maelstrom powers on his opponents. He also have such raw power that he send even the greatest warriors of the Empire (or Republic) packing in a battle.

Angelalex242
Honestly, they'll probably match up....

Caedus vs. Plagueis. Caedus can handle the latter's speed, is a much better swordsman, and has force power enough to shrug off 'die now.'

Krayt probably takes on Emperor Malgus. That should be fairly difficult.

Exar Kun probably takes on Vader. Exar has the advantage, but it's mostly in trickery and stunts.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malgus (Emperor) is a TIER 9 Sith Lord.
I really don't give a shit about whatever tier placement somebody throws around for a character. It's not proof or reasoning.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He have powers and raw power at this point that impressed even Darth Sidious.
And Caedus's power would certainly impress Sidious, were he still alive to witness or hear of it.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malgus's maelstrom powers will be a big problem to overcome for anybody in Team 2.
And Caedus's ability in physical combat to throw down with Luke will likewise be a big problem to overcome for anybody in team 1.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I really don't give a shit about whatever tier placement somebody throws around for a character. It's not proof or reasoning.
I have presented ample reasoning about Malgus's talents and power as an Emperor. That is proof and reasoning.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
And Caedus's power would certainly impress Sidious, were he still alive to witness or hear of it.
Conjecture.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
And Caedus's ability in physical combat to throw down with Luke will likewise be a big problem to overcome for anybody in team 1.
Exar Kun actually defeated Luke. Have anything to say about that?

Of-course, Caedus is going to be a tough mofo to contend with in martial aspects of combat. This wasn't even a discussion. I just pointed out that Plagueis and Malgus are good enough to handle him. Same cannot be said about Vader since Caedus is officially stated to be superior to him.

However, the outcome of this contest will be decided by who falls first and it is most likely Vader.

carthage
Malgus could probably take Krayt, I'm not sure. Krayt has drain and somewhat of a speed advantage, but Malgus has superior telekinesis, comparable skill, and at least rivaling durability.

Not sure who'd win there. Caedus would beat Plagueis and kill Malgus as well, Kun would also take Malgus out in a brutal fight.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have presented ample reasoning about Malgus's talents and power as an Emperor. That is proof and reasoning.
Then present that ample reasoning. Not that "He's a tier 9" bullshit, because I frankly could not care less where someone is rated on a fanmade tier list as far as an actual versus debate goes.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Conjecture.
Is it conjecture that Caedus's performance against Luke in martial combat is more impressive than any of Malgus's showings in that regard?


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Exar Kun actually defeated Luke. Have anything to say about that?
Luke has had a good 3 decades since then to improve.

carthage
DMB is mad that everyone here is better than Bane

Emperordmb
Could I get in a single debate on here without you barging in and trying to piss me off? Why do you go to such efforts just to try to annoy me?

Angelalex242
Exar taking Luke out was likely PIS. Or Drama Preserving Handicap. Or Worf Effect. Or something. If Exar lost, wouldn't be much of a plot, would it?

But as was said earlier, that was hardly peak Luke at the time.

NewGuy01
1.) That 2-3 year time period contains some of Luke's lowest showings, including being defeated by Desann.

2.) Exar did not defeat Luke alone; he had the help of Kyp Durron, one of the most powerful force sensitives in the mythos. Not to mention that he had both prep time and the advantage of a Dark Side Nexus to help him out.

3.) Exar Kun is stronger than Malgus. What's your point?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Then present that ample reasoning. Not that "He's a tier 9" bullshit, because I frankly could not care less where someone is rated on a fanmade tier list as far as an actual versus debate goes.
Ok, Sir. I am sorry. Please have a cookie.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Is it conjecture that Caedus's performance against Luke in martial combat is more impressive than any of Malgus's showings in that regard?
Hype:-

According to Sidious, Malgus's battlefield feats have never been duplicated which is significant hype, coming from one of the most arrogant individuals of the mythos who have very high standards for competence for himself and his apprentice.

Speed:-

Malgus have defeated other master swordsmen, one of them have history of outright blitzing competent warriors (Zallow).

Conclusion:-

Malgus is likely fast enough to contend with Caedus, in the light of his hype and showings.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Luke has had a good 3 decades since then to improve.
I know, but he had been stated to be (very) powerful at the time of his confrontation with Exar Kun. And Luke also had outdueled both Vader and Sidious earlier so he wasn't lacking in power and feats at this point.

My point is that Luke isn't infallible. Let us treat him like a realistic individual and we would be in the position to make realistic assessments.

If we are assume that Luke is untouchable, which isn't the case by the way since Lumiya and Lord Nyax also proved this, we won't be able to formulate realistic assessments.

I don't think Caedus have superior combat prowess then Sidious. Sometimes, mindset is game-changer. Luke had to worry about Ben while contending with Caedus for the second time and they were also relatives; Caedus had fallen to the dark side so his mindset was different then that of Luke's.

At another point, Luke just pinned Caedus with a telekinetic grip, which shows how well Luke can do if he is not mentally conflicted.

So let us not mistakenly assume that Caedus is untouchable or something along with Luke.

carthage
Hah, Malgus isn't fast enough to contend with Caedus.

Caedus has moved his saber fast enough to make it appear as a column of light, lit up an entire portion of the Anakin Solo with his blade, formed ribbons and fans of his blade simultaneously, dodged blaster bolts while injured, fought faster than Ben Skywalker could perceive, formed curtains out of his blade, etc.

He is three or four tiers of speed above Malgus, Malgus is Qui Gon speed tier

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by carthage
Hah, Malgus isn't fast enough to contend with Caedus.
Wrong.

Originally posted by carthage
Caedus has moved his saber fast enough to make it appear as a column of light, formed ribbons and fans of his blade simultaneously, dodged blaster bolts while injured, fought faster than Ben Skywalker could perceive, formed curtains out of his blade, etc.
So did Leener.

Originally posted by carthage
He is three or four tiers of speed above Malgus, Malgus is Qui Gon speed tier
laughing out loud

carthage
Ok?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Angelalex242
Exar taking Luke out was likely PIS. Or Drama Preserving Handicap. Or Worf Effect. Or something. If Exar lost, wouldn't be much of a plot, would it?

But as was said earlier, that was hardly peak Luke at the time.
I wouldn't consider this PIS since this was a straight confrontation. But yes, this wasn't Luke at his peak either, still very powerful, experienced, and accomplished warrior at this point.

Exar Kun is just that strong. I am not surprised if the best of the ancients can contend with the likes of Luke, Sidious and Caedus. They are just that good.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by NewGuy01
1.) That 2-3 year time period contains some of Luke's lowest showings, including being defeated by Desann.
Yes? What about his victory over Vader and disarming of Sidious? Are these low showings too?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
2.) Exar did not defeat Luke alone; he had the help of Kyp Durron, one of the most powerful force sensitives in the mythos. Not to mention that he had both prep time and the advantage of a Dark Side Nexus to help him out.
Yes, but Exar was the primary contributor in that strength, he had augmented Durron to that level. Durron was just a vessel.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
3.) Exar Kun is stronger than Malgus. What's your point?
Conjecture, my friend.

Angelalex242
Just saying taking Luke out then doesn't make Kun stronger, any more then tossing Sidious overboard makes Anakin stronger. (For he is Anakin at that point, not Vader, suit or no suit.)

NewGuy01
Pardon, what does it being Anakin or not have to do with anything?

Angelalex242
Nothing, except for a vs. thread I just thought of while I was typing that.

S_W_LeGenD

AncientPower
Sidious already thought Anakin Solo was immensely powerful and he wasn't even born yet. Caedus was far more powerful than his brother or his sister.

AncientPower
Lol at using Kun's spirit hax against Luke as a valid argument for Malgus posing a threat to GM Luke.

DE Luke would handily defeat corporeal Kun, GM Luke would stomp Kun three ways till Coruscant and i'm a huge Kun fanboy.

None of the TOR era besides Vitiate and perhaps Revan stand any form of a chance against Caedus, don't be ludicrous.

carthage
Malgus should really at the very least arguably handle Krayt imo.

Whoever wins between those two is up in the air imo

NewGuy01
Unlikely, tbh.



Are you implying that Malgus isn't up to par with Revan?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by AncientPower
Sidious already thought Anakin Solo was immensely powerful and he wasn't even born yet. Caedus was far more powerful than his brother or his sister.
Correction: potential

Sidious wanted a good host for possession so he would be able to perform well. The clones were not up to the mark.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Lol at using Kun's spirit hax against Luke as a valid argument for Malgus posing a threat to GM Luke.
Spirit hax?

Kun had possessed a host.

Originally posted by AncientPower
DE Luke would handily defeat corporeal Kun, GM Luke would stomp Kun three ways till Coruscant and i'm a huge Kun fanboy.
I am not a fan of Exar Kun and I think you are wrong.

Kun was arguably toughest in his original form. Much of the power that he acquired by draining Massassi went into maintaining immortality for centuries. When he was awakened, he felt the need of a host to tackle powerful Jedi such as Luke.

Originally posted by AncientPower
None of the TOR era besides Vitiate and perhaps Revan stand any form of a chance against Caedus, don't be ludicrous.
What a joke.

Emperor would simply break Caedus or comfortably subdue him with his powers. Revan also have relatively superior showings.

Their would be others who can handle Caedus; Malgus; Nox; Emperor's Wrath II; Jadus. Perhaps more.

While Caedus is solid, lets not mistakenly assume that he is untouched barring Luke. Fans blow him out of proportion for his one-time performance against Luke but they conveniently overlook circumstances of this confrontation. As I pointed out in another thread, do not expect every confrontation between Luke and Caedus to end the same way as it ended in front of Ben.

If Luke had no emotional attachments with Caedus and did not had to worry about Ben, he would have smoked Caedus.

AncientPower
You could try proving that Vitiate can comfortably break Caedus but it wouldn't work well for you. I suggest a thorough re-reading of Legacy of the Force before making astoundingly incorrect assumptions like that.

Darth Caedus is a very strong match for anyone bar Luke and his Force powers, which Vitiate doesn't even begin to approach.

No amount of TOR character hype will change that, DE Luke handily defeated DE Sidious in a duel. Yet a many times superior LOTF Luke couldn't simply disarm Caedus and could not subdue him with his blade, they even used limited Force powers against one another, which Caedus held his own with.

Caedus is top 3 of all time, claiming anyone but Luke can comfortably do anything to him is a blatantly misinformed statement.

You claim Caedus and Luke are overrated in numerous threads, despite them having mountains of evidence backing their ranking. Yet you overrate TOR characters far beyond their worth constantly.

Vitiate is on a level with the Ones and such? Abeloth alone was a dozen times more powerful than Luke Skywaller, a Grand Master arguably twice as powerful as ROTJ Sidious.

ThePost-ROTJ era is far more powerful than you admit it is.

Stigma
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Great battle. Either Team can win depending upon decisions made.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Holy shit this is a good match-up. I'm not sure.
Originally posted by Selenial
Jesus, nicely done Stigma.
Thanx to all.

I myself am leaning towards team 2 in an extremely close fight.

Nephthys
Originally posted by AncientPower
Sidious already thought Anakin Solo was immensely powerful and he wasn't even born yet. Caedus was far more powerful than his brother or his sister.

I thought they were all as powerful as each other, Jacen just progressed further. Jaina always goes on about how she has the same potential as him in the LotF novels.

DarthCaedus77
Caedus>Vader.

Krayt>Plagueis.

Kun is a non factor. Team 2 solidly.

RealistRacism
Kun and Krayt carry that dweeb who got clowned by Luke.

DarthCaedus77
Originally posted by RealistRacism
Kun and Krayt carry that dweeb who got clowned by Luke.

Kun isn't carrying anyone, he's a non factor. Caedus is more powerful than Vader, he's hardly a non factor.

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