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Maul as of Son of Dathomir. Maul is equipped only with his double-bladed saber.

Luminara as of Revenge of the Sith. Raskta is un-amped.

Setting is in the Jedi Temple.

Maul could ragdoll Raskta/LOLSTOMP Raskta in a duel and take Luminara with ehh probably little to no difficulty. He takes this.

The team work would give them a good edge. Raskta's a powerful swordsmen and Luminara is very adept as well. I'd give sabers to team and force powers to Maul. All-Out could probably go either way to be honest.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
The team work would give them a good edge. Raskta's a powerful swordsmen and Luminara is very adept as well. I'd give sabers to team and force powers to Maul. All-Out could probably go either way to be honest.
I could agree with that

What team work? They don't know or have any knowledge of each other, and have no feats to suggest they have any synchronicity. Even together they're still outskilled by the Sith, not to mention the fact he can ragdoll either with the force. They wouldn't take sabers at all

Raskta is something of a wildcard, here; I'm not sure how she'd do, tbh. Inclined to think Maul would win, though.

Wildcard is a funny way of saying featless :3

...

Good point.

Lsu and Unduli, Unduli has feats of protecting allies with the Force and even healing them, combine that with her extremely unorthodox form and she would make a solid team-mate for Lsu.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Unduli has feats of protecting allies with the Force and even healing them What?

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
The team work would give them a good edge. Raskta's a powerful swordsmen and Luminara is very adept as well. I'd give sabers to team and force powers to Maul. All-Out could probably go either way to be honest.
Lsu is not a powerful Jedi, OK?

One of the best swordsmen of the Order? Yes.

I don't believe you can kill as many Sith Lords as she did without being truly powerful.

Maul would get absolutely trashed by Raskta.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I could agree with that

Stop compromising when you don't need to, prospective padawan.

No one trashes Darth Maul in a duel, against either one of these alone he likely wins but combined they are more than he can handle.

Any top tier or close to top tier lightsaber duelist, e.g. Raskta, Sarro, Kas'im, Bane, Zannah etc, would indeed trash him.

Originally posted by AncientPower
No one trashes Darth Maul in a duel

Um, Sidious?

Pre-TPM Maul whilst exhausted, starved and severely injured nearly killed Pre-TPM Sidious in a duel with rage. Vader dismissed the notion of ever being capable of taking Sidious alone and Dooku dismissed defeating his master as a laughable dream on anyone's part.

TCW Sidious couldn't just one shot Maul, effort on Sidious' part was required to bring Maul down.

Sidious would smash anyone you just listed apple, but he could not perform the same level of domination over Maul.

I am not saying Maul can actually defeat Sidious but he is only the fourth Force User who has ever taken on his master seriously and performed admirably against him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't believe you can kill as many Sith Lords as she did without being truly powerful.
That is hearsay and Lsu have stated shortcomings.

A Jedi who cannot even conjure up a simple Force barrier to protect herself from a telekinetic assault even after being augmented by BM, doesn't seems powerful in the ways of the Force.

Also, Brotherhood Sith are really lacking on average as well.

Just throwing this out there:
"Her lightsaber skills were impressive. In battle, her movements were focused and precise, flowing from one to the other. All Jedi are my brothers and sisters, but only with a few, like Luminara Unduli, do you intuitively mesh." -- Quinlan Vos

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That is hearsay and Lsu have stated shortcomings.

A Jedi who cannot even conjure up a simple Force barrier to protect herself from a telekinetic assault even after being augmented by BM, doesn't seems powerful in the ways of the Force.

Also, Brotherhood Sith are really lacking on average as well.

It's an opinion. Mine carries as much or more weight as yours does. Her shortcomings are in protecting against force attacks. That doesn't mean weakness, simply weakness in that area. She was clearly very powerful in her physical amplification.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Pre-TPM Maul whilst exhausted, starved and severely injured nearly killed Pre-TPM Sidious in a duel with rage. Vader dismissed the notion of ever being capable of taking Sidious alone and Dooku dismissed defeating his master as a laughable dream on anyone's part.

TCW Sidious couldn't just one shot Maul, effort on Sidious' part was required to bring Maul down.

Sidious would smash anyone you just listed apple, but he could not perform the same level of domination over Maul.

I am not saying Maul can actually defeat Sidious but he is only the fourth Force User who has ever taken on his master seriously and performed admirably against him.

TCW Sidious did one-shot Maul. He just let him continue after demonstrating his ability to do so.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Sidious would smash anyone you just listed apple, but he could not perform the same level of domination over Maul.

No he would not. The idea that any non-DE version of Sidious is this supremely powerful Force User is a myth. Bane, by the end of POD, is already a lot more powerful than ROTS Sidious and a much better duelist to boot. Sarro is probably the only person I listed that I wouldn't consider solidly above Sidious as a duelist.

Lsu was in the middle of a Force Leap towards him, just pointing it out. Not to mention she was responsible for intercepting the lightning attack that blasted through Farfalla's own barrier.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Lsu was in the middle of a Force Leap towards him, just pointing it out. Not to mention she was responsible for intercepting the lightning attack that blasted through Farfalla's own barrier.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
A Jedi who cannot even conjure up a simple Force barrier to protect herself from a telekinetic assault even after being augmented by BM, doesn't seems powerful in the ways of the Force.

You forgot to mention that it was a telekinetic assualt being dished out by Darth Bane.



Another myth.

Originally posted by appletonia
No he would not. The idea that any non-DE version of Sidious is this supremely powerful Force User is a myth. Bane, by the end of POD, is already a lot more powerful than ROTS Sidious and a much better duelist to boot. Sarro is probably the only person I listed that I wouldn't consider solidly above Sidious as a duelist.

The Phantom Menace Sidious was already more powerful than Darth Plagueis and Revenge of the Sith Sidious is stated to be the most powerful Sith Lord of all time in numerous sources.

Not to mention that Yoda, confirmed to be the most powerful warrior of the Light Side ever by that time, could only hold his own against Sidious, never defeat him as confirmed in ROTS novelisation.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The Phantom Menace Sidious was already more powerful than Darth Plagueis and Revenge of the Sith Sidious is stated to be the most powerful Sith Lord of all time in numerous sources.

Not to mention that Yoda, confirmed to be the most powerful warrior of the Light Side ever by that time, could only hold his own against Sidious, never defeat him as confirmed in ROTS novelisation.

What you need to realise is that the Star Wars universe is an incredibly inconsistent universe; this is both clear by simple observation but it has also been declared by George Lucas and various other officials. The idea that every single feat and accolade fits neatly into this one coherent universe simply doesn't work. You can't just pick a single statement and stand by it come what may; if it is incompatible with elements of the Star Wars universe that can be argued to possess more legitimacy, then it has no standing, bottom line.

But aside from that, every single statement that I've personally come across, and that's a lot of them, has always been fairly ambiguous. You'll be hard pressed to find a statement that you can argue definitively establishes that Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord ever (regardless of what you mean by "powerful".

But I understand that you're simply following the status quo, which is what practically everyone here does (and desperately tries to defend), and it's one of the reasons why this forum has become kind of lame.

I've been reading Star Wars since 1994 so I have no need to be told how inconsistent things have been I understand perfectly. However Yoda and Sidious being the most powerful of their respective orders has been solid George Lucas gospel since 1987.

I'm pretty sure George Lucas has never declared them the most powerful Jedi/Sith of all time, and even if he did, who cares? George Lucas has personally stated that he considers the Expanded Universe and his universe two distinct entities; the EU is not what George Lucas considers when making such statements, and in many ways the EU has become much larger than George Lucas.

Fight it all you want, but the movies quite clearly paint a picture of relatively tame and ordinary Force Users once you start looking at how powerful they have been shown to get in the EU. Everybody intuitively understands this, and yet they desperately try to fight it for some reason. You have to start looking at EU sources that demonstrate movie characters doing things inconsistent with what they could do in the movies to even the playing field, but even then they are by no means stand out feats when looking at the entirety of the EU. The idea that Sidious as of ROTS is the most powerful Sith ever is laughable, and no statement will ever change that. Yoda being the most powerful Jedi is not as questionable, simply because of the general lack of overpowered Jedi in the mythos, but the idea that Yoda can compete with the very best Sith 100% is.

Originally posted by appletonia
Any top tier or close to top tier lightsaber duelist, e.g. Raskta, Sarro, Kas'im, Bane, Zannah etc, would indeed trash him.

Good thing none of those guys are "top tier" duelists.

Originally posted by carthage
Good thing none of those guys are "top tier" duelists.

All of them are better than Surik.

Not even close bae

Don't think I'd call her top tier either tho.

You're right, she's not even close.

Bane isn't top tier either if she isn't.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're right,

I'm glad you concede that Bane and Zannah are inferior.

Wasn't too hard, was it child?

If Surik has beaten anyone above Trainee Sirak in a duel that automatically makes her more skilled than Bane.

Originally posted by carthage
Bane isn't top tier either if she isn't. Originally posted by carthage
If Surik has beaten anyone above Trainee Sirak in a duel that automatically makes her more skilled than Bane.

Still waiting for anyone to show any feats that occur within text (not off panel or in a passing mention)/without bm of any force augmentation feats for Raskta. You're the second one to make that claim and not provide any examples, yet you claim your opinion has more worth than another poster? Lol

Originally posted by appletonia
Bane, by the end of POD, is already a lot more powerful than ROTS Sidious and a much better duelist to boot. B]

This is legitimately the dumbest thing I've ever seen anyone post for the EU, profiled lmfao

You profiled the wrong post bro.

That's ****ing hilarious anyone can even think that

LOL

dmb pms plz

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
dmb pms plz

Reported for off topic postings.

Reported for ****ing you in ass.

Why would you report me for something we both got enjoyment out of?

He's only fourteen! ANT COVER YOUR EYES

Originally posted by appletonia
You forgot to mention that it was a telekinetic assualt being dished out by Darth Bane.
Oh yes, the mighty Darth Bane. Did you forget that another Jedi handled it?

Lsu lacks in defensive aspects of the Force. Not my fault.

Originally posted by appletonia
Another myth.
This is not a myth.

Brotherhood Sith degraded in competency and understanding of the dark arts on average because they stopped concentrating on Sith doctrine itself. When Bane realized this organizational decay, he plotted destruction of the Brotherhood because he understood that Brotherhood would flop and Sith should begin anew by staying true to their original ideals.

The only Brotherhood Sith whom I admire is Lord Kas'im; he had power, talent, and potential. But he too deviated from Sith doctrine unfortunately. Kaan was OK. The rest were jokes.

Sith doctrine is not about Brotherhood, it is about survival of the fittest and pursuit for greater power. This is why ancients have produced so many powerful and capable Sith in history. Bane realized this and focused on ancient knowledge and principles to hone his talents in the dark side and reform the Sith. Due to Bane's wisdom, powerful Sith re-emerged through his efforts, and the lineage led to legends such as Darth Plagueis and Darth Sidious.

---

Of-course, Brotherhood Sith are not exactly mooks, but they did not concentrate much on honing their talents in the dark arts and accepted the principles of Brotherhood. Ironically, Brotherhood was also just a tactic used by Lord Kaan to control the Sith and maintain his supremacy. But he was making Sith holistically weak in this manner.

Now compare Kaan's actions to Emperor's. The latter established an Empire which promoted competition and competency without restrictions. This Empire produced many powerful Sith Lords as a consequence, and surpassed the ancients on all fronts.

Originally posted by appletonia
Bane, by the end of POD, is already a lot more powerful than ROTS Sidious and a much better duelist to boot.

Originally posted by carthage
This is legitimately the dumbest thing I've ever seen anyone post for the EU, profiled lmfao

Yeah, his opinion is far beyond stupidity.

I agree.

Might be fair for team 2 if they add Bane maybe.

Bane's tactics and physical strength would tip the balance, Maul has no speed feats surpassing dodging rain drops

Rain drops are extremely fast projectiles. It's a wonder why modern Star Wars military hadn't incorporated water guns into their infantry's armament.

OMG did I just read a rant that reminds me of posts from 2005 on how EU Sith/Jedi>>>Movie ones?