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King of the Dead Panther against Hawkman

Who you got?

Should I start?

Panther

no one wants to tackle this because the jury is still out on the new bp. based on what i've seen i'd go with hawkman in a straight up random battle, personally, but bp is a tricky character nowadays, fighting and doing well against people well outside his weight class...... with any prep, bp wrecks.

Hawkman.

Black Panther

Well since there is no vibranium currently and new BP hasn't really done anything with his upgrade Hawkman should win.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Well since there is no vibranium currently and new BP hasn't really done anything with his upgrade Hawkman should win. what do you mean "no vibranium"? Only the processed vibranium was made inert. Wakanda doesn't have as much of its vibranium as it used to have, but they still have the largest supply of it in marvel.

Originally posted by leonidas
no one wants to tackle this because the jury is still out on the new bp.

Oh I see.

Originally posted by deathslash
what do you mean "no vibranium"? Only the processed vibranium was made inert. Wakanda doesn't have as much of its vibranium as it used to have, but they still have the largest supply of it in marvel.

I thought it was all vibranium in the entire world was effected? I will have to read DoomWar again as it's been a few years.

Hawkman has armor as well. Nth metal and it's symbiotic like. He can also shift to battle armor mode, too.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Hawkman has armor as well. Nth metal and it's symbiotic like. He can also shift to battle armor mode, too.

Sounds nice. But I'm betting he still gets his ass kicked. Just me. Tchalla does things on the fly now that put him on another level.

Originally posted by Vanguard
Sounds nice. But I'm betting he still gets his ass kicked. Just me. Tchalla does things on the fly now that put him on another level.

He's been rocked by Aquaman/Shaggy Man who is a legit 100 Class being. He also can regenerate his limbs now. He OWNED Blockbuster in the Battle Mode armor. So, no, he doesn't get his ass kicked on a regular bases. He's more formidable/versatile in the DCnU, IMO.

Originally posted by deathslash
what do you mean "no vibranium"? Only the processed vibranium was made inert. Wakanda doesn't have as much of its vibranium as it used to have, but they still have the largest supply of it in marvel. I have the same recollection as -K-M-. All of Wakanda's processed vibranium was eliminated by being rendered inert. All around the world. It's just that Wakanda already had begun unloading its vibranium and diversifying its economy and portfolio so that T'Challa's gambit of rendering all Wakandan processed vibranium inert wasn't as devastating as Doom had thought it would be. Which is why Doom never expected it.

Wakanda doesn't have much pure vibranium left. Not a real appreciable amount apparently.

Originally posted by ODG
I have the same recollection as -K-M-. All of Wakanda's processed vibranium was eliminated by being rendered inert. All around the world. It's just that Wakanda already had begun unloading its vibranium and diversifying its economy and portfolio so that T'Challa's gambit of rendering all Wakandan processed vibranium inert wasn't as devastating as Doom had thought it would be. Which is why Doom never expected it.

Wakanda doesn't have much pure vibranium left. Not a real appreciable amount apparently.

In any case, has the KotD upgrade been seen?

I know he dodged Proxima Midnight's spear, which if you believe her fans, travels at light speed

He gave a good fight with the Batman analogue.

The what upgrade?

King of the Dead. Where he gets all the strength, and knowledge, of every Black Panther before him.

Some would, on first reading, read this as BP now has the strength of 100 men. Or whatever.

I'm beginning to think it means he now has the mental strength of will that having your own support group gives you. He seems yo call upon the previous BPs when he's in a dilemma....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
King of the Dead. Where he gets all the strength, and knowledge, of every Black Panther before him.

Some would, on first reading, read this as BP now has the strength of 100 men. Or whatever.

I'm beginning to think it means he now has the mental strength of will that having your own support group gives you. He seems yo call upon the previous BPs when he's in a dilemma.... he did make namor bleed with a single punch, so it's reasonable to believe that his strength has been upgraded a fair degree as well.

True that, I forgot.

Panther sounds like Azrael, Michael lane where the suit of sorrows gives the user the strength, speed, and skills of all the previous users. And one of those users was batman himself.

Didn't Hawkman get stomped by Slade?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125404/2987190-3403750638-27606.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125404/2987193-1612622881-27606.jpg

Slade could've killed him. This isn't a fight, at all. BP STOMPS, and easily at that.

No, he didn't.

Plus, rookie Hawk man and all that. But of course, you knew that right?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No, he didn't.

Plus, rookie Hawk man and all that. But of course, you knew that right?

So you have scans that tells us that he was a rookie then? Also, provide some scans telling us that he received some type of speed Increase because Slade worked him there. Also, if Hawkman was this rookie you use as an excuse, wasn't Slade a rookie then as well?

Yes, I do.

You DO know their histories, right? One's an archaeologist who stumbled on his armour, only to rediscover his heritage as a pacifist, and who has no clue what his armour can do, and the other was a trained killer, the greatest soldier in living memory, who was then augmented significantly to be the ultimate soldier, and then got an upgrade with nth metal......

So by the time he running around as Death stroke, he's been a trained killer many times over already, and been working as a merc.

FFS carver.

Hawkman wins.

That was pre battle mode armor, too.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, I do.

You DO know their histories, right? One's an archaeologist who stumbled on his armour, only to rediscover his heritage as a pacifist, and who has no clue what his armour can do, and the other was a trained killer, the greatest soldier in living memory, who was then augmented significantly to be the ultimate soldier, and then got an upgrade with nth metal......

So by the time he running around as Death stroke, he's been a trained killer many times over already, and been working as a merc.

FFS carver.

Scans showing that he wasn't proficient with his abilities. Also, please provide scans that tells us he increased In power and skill since then.

He he sure. I'm sure you know of his berserker mode that he discovered, plus how he discovered his healing factor etc. I will post these scans (if Golgi doesn't first).

Also, are you still saying that DS was a rookie in those scans because Hawk man was? Even though in YOUR VERY OWN SCANS, Carter says that he's heard of DS the killer, and DS replies that it was 'a long time ago'? Because that's possibly the stupidest thing I've read you type.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Hawkman wins.

Panther aint nothing to play with. Can Hawkman do this to Black Dwarf?


http://s9.postimg.org/htmuar99n/Tchalla10.jpg

Shaggy Man and Blockbuster say yes.

Originally posted by Vanguard
Panther aint nothing to play with. Can Hawkman do this to Black Dwarf?


http://s9.postimg.org/htmuar99n/Tchalla10.jpg

You mean jump out of the way? Yes. Can BP take a punch from an angry Nu52 Aquaman on the jaw?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/120679/3259549-05.jpg

"Didn't Hawkman get stomped by Slade?" - carver

He was stated in an issue close to this that he has no idea the power he posses and he has continued to get more powerful. I will look for the scans if you really need them carver.

Hawkman has tanked hits from a bloodlusted wonder woman and a bloodlusted aquaman this shows how much he has really improved.

Why cant you guys just post links? It does not make your argument any more valid by having big images. Breaking the page with an image is basically pulling your cock out to show dominance in this debate. It is not working......

Also, the power hawkman is throwing around is incredible, he was able to break a brainiac ship that a green lantern could not penetrate.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You mean jump out of the way? Yes. Can BP take a punch from an angry Nu52 Aquaman on the jaw?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/120679/3259549-05.jpg
I don't see why not.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/46646/4207453-8126311121-41927.jpg

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I don't see why not.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/46646/4207453-8126311121-41927.jpg



He also withstood an attack from an enraged Phoenix Namor.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/12687143/AVX-Zone-_009.jpg.html

Originally posted by thingy150
"Didn't Hawkman get stomped by Slade?" - carver

He was stated in an issue close to this that he has no idea the power he posses and he has continued to get more powerful. I will look for the scans if you really need them carver.

Hawkman has tanked hits from a bloodlusted wonder woman and a bloodlusted aquaman this shows how much he has really improved.

Scan please

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I don't see why not.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/46646/4207453-8126311121-41927.jpg

Then in the next few panels, does he then take on someone on the level of WW?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/120679/3181995-justice+league+of+america+%282013-%29+006-007.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then in the next few panels, does he then take on someone on the level of WW?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/120679/3181995-justice+league+of+america+%282013-%29+006-007.jpg



That panel isn't enough to prove what would happen between him and Diana (Diana would curb him). Who has he beat/defeated?

Originally posted by carver9


That panel isn't enough to prove what would happen between him and Diana (Diana would curb him). Who has he beat/defeated?

No, but my point (which you missed) is that whereas Panther is on the floor, being helped up by Reed, Hawkman is continuing fighting and going on to bigger fish than Aquaman. Miles different.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No, but my point (which you missed) is that whereas Panther is on the floor, being helped up by Reed, Hawkman is continuing fighting and going on to bigger fish than Aquaman. Miles different.

And Aquaman was trying to kill Hawkman like Namor was trying to kill Panther?

Proof he was holding back, please.

Also, proof that Namor was going for the kill.

Because personally, I find it hard to believe Reed Richards can stop a Namor who is out for the kill, seeing at all the things Namor has done. ....

Probably Hawkman.

Wolverine level HF
Super strength/durability
Living armor, and unbreakable weapons
Subsonic flight

T'Challa's gear is nothing to sneeze at either though.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, proof that Namor was going for the kill.

Because personally, I find it hard to believe Reed Richards can stop a Namor who is out for the kill, seeing at all the things Namor has done. ....

My god, they are going to kill each other.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4059416-6518122577-40125.jpg

Lol...and Namor isn't known for pulling his punches.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Proof he was holding back, please.

Proof that Aquaman was holding back?

Originally posted by carver9
My god, they are going to kill each other.

Lol...and Namor isn't known for pulling his punches.

IOW, Reed is stronger than a bloodlusted, out for the kill Namor? OK. Note how Reed's words comes BEFORE Namor's punch - so what was Reed (and thus, you) basing their opinion on? He can be wrong too you know. BP was doing all the damage when Reed said what he said....does not mean that Namor was going to respond in kind (and we see that he does NOT, as he even mocks BP - I thought we had an agreement. Do you, carver, know what that agreement was?)

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
IOW, Reed is stronger than a bloodlusted, out for the kill Namor? OK. Note how Reed's words comes BEFORE Namor's punch - so what was Reed (and thus, you) basing their opinion on? He can be wrong too you know. BP was doing all the damage when Reed said what he said....does not mean that Namor was going to respond in kind (and we see that he does NOT, as he even mocks BP - I thought we had an agreement. Do you, carver, know what that agreement was?)

"Namor, stop this before it goes too far. Too far, is that suppose to mean something?"

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4059415-5330616469-40125.jpg

Same Issue, Namor didn't care about killing a billion beings. Blew a planet up without a thought.

Then, he killed thousands of Black Panther peeps before hand.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/uploads/newavengers4.jpg

I don't know where you are getting the idea that he held anything back because the proof goes against this.

Originally posted by carver9
]

I don't know where you are getting the idea that he held anything back because the proof goes against this.

Lol all your proof is for me, not for you. You just haven't understood it, and glossed over things.

Let me break it down step by step for you.

Namor killed tons of BP's people. BP and Namor have an agreement - when all this has finished, THEN BP and Namor will have their big fight. Not before, not during, but AFTER.

Reed does not know of this agreement. He DOES however, know Namor, and knows he can be extremely hot-tempered, violent and aggressive.

BP attacks Namor, breaking the agreement that Reed has no knowledge about. All Reed sees are two guys fighting, one of whom is a class 100, the other, a tech wizard with plans for everything. So he screams out, they're going to kill each other.

Namor however, is NOT trying to kill BP - and reminds BP of their agreement to settle up AFTER everything had finished. I thought we had an understanding. Reed then restrains him.

So in summary - BP broke the agreement, Namor was still adhering to it, Reed had no idea about it and only saw two guys who both had the means to take each other down, fighting.

Proof, please, that Namor was out for the kill?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol all your proof is for me, not for you. You just haven't understood it, and glossed over things.

Let me break it down step by step for you.

Namor killed tons of BP's people. BP and Namor have an agreement - when all this has finished, THEN BP and Namor will have their big fight. Not before, not during, but AFTER.

Reed does not know of this agreement. He DOES however, know Namor, and knows he can be extremely hot-tempered, violent and aggressive.

BP attacks Namor, breaking the agreement that Reed has no knowledge about. All Reed sees are two guys fighting, one of whom is a class 100, the other, a tech wizard with plans for everything. So he screams out, they're going to kill each other.

Namor however, is NOT trying to kill BP - and reminds BP of their agreement to settle up AFTER everything had finished. I thought we had an understanding. Reed then restrains him.

So in summary - BP broke the agreement, Namor was still adhering to it, Reed had no idea about it and only saw two guys who both had the means to take each other down, fighting.

Proof, please, that Namor was out for the kill?

SMH...show me Namor holding back ONCE in his career. We know he doesn't mind killing: show me the opposite. Show me him pulling his punches. I'm not going to go back and forth on this when we know what he is willing to do without hesitation.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then in the next few panels, does he then take on someone on the level of WW?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/120679/3181995-justice+league+of+america+%282013-%29+006-007.jpg
Wait what? You asked if he can take a punch from New 52 Aquaman.
Nice of you to move the goalposts..

You were provided what I feel most will consider to be substantial proof. Plus I'm pretty sure Namor can take a slight majority from Aquaman.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No, but my point (which you missed) is that whereas Panther is on the floor, being helped up by Reed, Hawkman is continuing fighting and going on to bigger fish than Aquaman. Miles different.
Pretty sure your original point was T'Challa capable of taking hits from guys beyond his weight class.

And you brought up a scan that is highly inconclusive. You probably could have shown a better scan to back up your statement.
I mean come on...
For one, it was a short lived big team battle that had foes switching onto another. And there was literally only one scan in which Hawkman and Wondy were face to face. No actual proof of them fighting. Wondy kicked Katana towards Hawkman a page before. Then the page after your scan, the fight was already over. Your comment about moving to bigger and better things is a tad bit misplaced.

Originally posted by carver9
SMH...show me Namor holding back ONCE in his career. We know he doesn't mind killing: show me the opposite. Show me him pulling his punches. I'm not going to go back and forth on this when we know what he is willing to do without hesitation.

IOW, you have nothing to refute my argument. Show me Namor killing anyone of note. Venom, perhaps, when he ripped his wings off? Rulk, when he was crazed even more by the Phoenix Force? No? How about Reed, when he's supposedly restraining a bloodlusted out for the kill Namor?

You don't know anything about the character of Namor.

Why did he go begging to Doom, gorging on humble pie, if he does not mind killing - without hesitation, no less?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wait what? You asked if he can take a punch from New 52 Aquaman.
Nice of you to move the goalposts..

You were provided what I feel most will consider to be substantial proof. Plus I'm pretty sure Namor can take a slight majority from Aquaman.

Oh, I knew about the Namor showing. Check my reply to deathslash, bottom of page 1. I was always using it to lead up to the use of the WW scan.



Not just taking - as I pointed out to Carver, the two showings are miles different. Namor puts him down to his knees with one punch - VERY impressive, I agree, I am NOT lowballing it. It's a punch from fricking NAMOR. I am just saying, whereas BP (despite being bloodlusted) is still stopped in his rage, and is on his knees, and needed to be helped up, whereas Hawkman, continues fighting on, and is seen a page later fighting WW.

Aquaman and Namor are pretty even now.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh, I knew about the Namor showing. Check my reply to deathslash, bottom of page 1. I was always using it to lead up to the use of the WW scan.
Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that he can take a punch from a New 52 Arthur.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Not just taking - as I pointed out to Carver, the two showings are miles different. Namor puts him down to his knees with one punch - VERY impressive, I agree, I am NOT lowballing it. It's a punch from fricking NAMOR. I am just saying, whereas BP (despite being bloodlusted) is still stopped in his rage, and is on his knees, and needed to be helped up, whereas Hawkman, continues fighting on, and is seen a page later fighting WW.
You are right. They are miles apart. BP's showing vs Namor was actually much more impressive. First you got the part wrong where you stated that BP was needed to be helped up. No where on panel was that shown. He fell down near Tony. The fight also showed BP able to knock down someone in Namor's weight class with a punch. Heck we even see BP actually having Namor dead to right's at the end(practically overpowering him). Whether it was mostly tech or his upgrade no one knows, but it happened nonetheless.

How could you even compare that to Hawkman's showing in that short lived scuffle? All we really see on panel was him taking a punch(almost looked like a grazed punch) from Aquaman, a few face offs, Katana being kicked to him by Wondy, and one panel in which Wondy ends up in between him(they were in a sort of grappling position) and Katana.

Now lets bring the part where you stated that Hawkman took a punch from an "angry" Aquaman. If anything it was Hawkman who should be enraged considering it looked like Clark just murdered their team member.
We now take the BP and Namor scene. Both leaders are not only dealing with a most phukked up multiversal dilemma, but are also in the middle of a personal war that has seen both their kingdoms produce countless body bags. Now tell me which fight was more emotionally charged with the possibility of one or both of them costing their very life.

Oh and if you hadn't noticed, on page 2 I did say Hawkman wins. I will add with much difficulty.

Here is him taking a full on hit from a bloodlusted WW

Nobody re-size this and break the page. He has shown to go up in power level and if you ignore this carver you are being ridiculous, I will have to do some digging if you want it stated. taking hits from bloodlusted wonder woman and aquaman>>namor.

Carver I should not have to dig vigorously for scans just because your knowledge is lacking on new 52 hawkman.

Originally posted by carver9
And Aquaman was trying to kill Hawkman like Namor was trying to kill Panther?

Bloodlusted wonder woman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>bloodlusted namor

Originally posted by thingy150
Bloodlusted wonder woman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>bloodlusted namor

I would say Shaggy Man as well. Hawkman was losing a fatal amount of blood, yet kept on going. Nothing Panther has that can take him out for long.

Originally posted by Golgo13
I would say Shaggy Man as well. Hawkman was losing a fatal amount of blood, yet kept on going. Nothing Panther has that can take him out for long.

Exactly, people tend to vote against new 52 hawkman a lot without knowing how much he has improved. His healing factor and durability are insane and he also can go into battle mode where he matched strength with blockbuster and was head to toe covered with nth metal.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Shaggy Man and Blockbuster say yes. If you read Justice League of America #5 more closely, Hawkman was losing to Shaggy Man pretty steadily. And pretty badly. The JLA ended up defeating him. And as for Blockbuster, Catwoman kicked the sh1t out of him somehow.

At least Black Dwarf made a stand against Gladiator, Ronan, Super-Skrull and Annihilus.

In any event, KoTD Black Panther has consistently dealt with blows from class 100s: Namor, Terrax the Enlightened, Black Dwarf. He's even outright defeated a class 100 in Black Dwarf and seemed well on his way to defeating Namor.

He also one-shot Black Swan. Who was way stronger than anybody thought when she gave the entire Illuminati team the business when they confronted/reimprisoned her. She even went on to defeat Doctor Spectrum from the Supreme Power universe during an incursion.

So if we're going by class of opponents, KoTD Black Panther looks to be superior.

Originally posted by ODG
If you read Justice League of America #5 more closely, Hawkman was losing to Shaggy Man pretty steadily. And pretty badly. The JLA ended up defeating him. And as for Blockbuster, Catwoman kicked the sh1t out of him somehow.

At least Black Dwarf made a stand against Gladiator, Ronan, Super-Skrull and Annihilus.

In any event, KoTD Black Panther has consistently dealt with blows from class 100s: Namor, Terrax the Enlightened, Black Dwarf. He's even outright defeated a class 100 in Black Dwarf and seemed well on his way to defeating Namor.

He also one-shot Black Swan. Who was way stronger than anybody thought when she gave the entire Illuminati team the business when they confronted/reimprisoned her. She even went on to defeat Doctor Spectrum from the Supreme Power universe during an incursion.

So if we're going by class of opponents, KoTD Black Panther looks to be superior.

It is the amount of punishment he was able to take from shaggy man that was impressive lol. Hawkman is more durable and has the better healing factor. He has regenerated limbs taken shots from a bloodlusted wonder woman, aquaman, blockbuster and shaggy man. Panther will not put him down.

Hawkman has also one shotted people like shazam and bullet timed, he has all the tools to win the fight.

shaggy man was able to over power martian manhunter and hawkman took a beating from him, that is the feat...

Originally posted by ODG
If you read Justice League of America #5 more closely, Hawkman was losing to Shaggy Man pretty steadily. And pretty badly. The JLA ended up defeating him. And as for Blockbuster, Catwoman kicked the sh1t out of him somehow.

At least Black Dwarf made a stand against Gladiator, Ronan, Super-Skrull and Annihilus.

In any event, KoTD Black Panther has consistently dealt with blows from class 100s: Namor, Terrax the Enlightened, Black Dwarf. He's even outright defeated a class 100 in Black Dwarf and seemed well on his way to defeating Namor.

He also one-shot Black Swan. Who was way stronger than anybody thought when she gave the entire Illuminati team the business when they confronted/reimprisoned her. She even went on to defeat Doctor Spectrum from the Supreme Power universe during an incursion.

So if we're going by class of opponents, KoTD Black Panther looks to be superior.

Nice to know. I had no idea that Black Panther was that kind of a threat. My first thoughts were that Hawkman would tag, and bag him.

Originally posted by thingy150
It is the amount of punishment he was able to take from shaggy man that was impressive lol. Hawkman is more durable and has the better healing factor. He has regenerated limbs taken shots from a bloodlusted wonder woman, aquaman, blockbuster and shaggy man. Panther will not put him down. Black Panther put someone down who took shots from Gladiator, Annihilus, Ronan and Super-Skrull simultaneously. Your sketchy hodge-podge of panel shots and tiny snippets of Hawkman's team fights isn't painting a picture of durability and damage soak beyond Black Panther in the slightest in the face of that. Even if I try to give your hodge-podge full faith and credit (which it certainly does not deserve).

It just strikes me that you haven't read anything on Black Panther. Originally posted by thingy150
Hawkman has also one shotted people like shazam and bullet timed, he has all the tools to win the fight.

shaggy man was able to over power martian manhunter and hawkman took a beating from him, that is the feat... When did Hawkman one-shot Shazam?

Shaggy Man overpowered J'onn with fire. You should re-read the comic.

Originally posted by ODG
Black Panther put someone down who took shots from Gladiator, Annihilus, Ronan and Super-Skrull simultaneously. Your hodge-podge of panel shots and tiny snippets of Hawkman's team fights isn't painting a picture of durability and damage soak beyond Black Panther in the slightest in the face of that even if I try to give it full faith and credit (which it certainly does not deserve).

It just strikes me that you haven't read anything on Black Panther. When did Hawkman one-shot Shazam?

Shaggy Man overpowered J'onn with fire. You should re-read the comic.

He also put his hands on Jon at some point you should re-read the comic.

How did he put him down? With what equipment? I love how you talk shit about my scans without posting any yourself, hilarious. So far you have thrown out some abc logic and that seems to be it.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/12/120679/3916604-3276360-shazamjld23-2.jpg

shazam was not seen after this.

Wonder Woman has made kryptonians bleed which superman could not do and superman is strong enough to bench the earth for 5 days straight easily. Hawkman was able to shake off a hit from a bloodlusted wonder woman, that is insane.

The black dwarf fight is off panel and he is seen just walking away. That is it.....

The main focus/selling point of your argument was not shown and he was not hurt, for all we know he was embarrassed he could not catch black panther.

You completely lied by saying "put someone down" because he just walks away fine....

^ Yes, I'm sure that Black Dwarf ran away leaving a trail of his own blood because Black Panther just kept dodging him and made Black Dwarf feel sad and clumsy. Clearly unhurt, despite leaving a trail of blood. Originally posted by thingy150
He also put his hands on Jon at some point you should re-read the comic. So putting your hands on someone at some point is supposed to be overpowering? J'onn outright blitzed Shaggy Man through the wall before Shaggy Man was forced to resort to using fire. Originally posted by thingy150
How did he put him down? With what equipment? I love how you talk shit about my scans without posting any yourself, hilarious. So far you have thrown out some abc logic and that seems to be it. He put him down by beating the sh1t out of him. And he used whatever equipment was on his person, including his fists. And how is explaining to you what Black Panther achieved talking sh1t? You walk in here with "Hawkman fightzorzzz Aquaman+Wonder Wimminz+Shazamzzz = winzorrz" and I try my best to actually give your bastardization of an argument full credit and I'm using ABC logic? I just pointed out that Black Panther actually beat down someone who took on 4 cosmic Heralds simultaneously. So, no. Hawkman isn't beyond Black Panther's ability to put down. It's a fact. Originally posted by thingy150
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/12/120679/3916604-3276360-shazamjld23-2.jpg You think Hawkman one-shotted Shazam there. To troll someone, you need to actually maintain a facade of doubt as to your imbecility. You don't just actually prove yourself to be one.

Originally posted by ODG
^ Yes, I'm sure that Black Dwarf ran away leaving a trail of his own blood because Black Panther just kept dodging him and made Black Dwarf feel sad and clumsy. Clearly unhurt, despite leaving a trail of blood. So putting you hands on someone is supposed to be overpowering? J'onn outright blitzed Shaggy Man through the wall before Shaggy Man was forced to resort to using fire. He put him down by beating the sh1t out of him. And he used whatever equipment was on his person, including his fists. And how is explaining to you what Black Panther achieved talking sh1t? You walk in here with "Hawkman fightzorzzz Aquaman+Wonder Wimminz+Shazamzzz = winzorrz" and I try my best to actually give your bastardization of an argument full credit and I'm using ABC logic? I just pointed out that Black Panther actually beat down someone who took on 4 cosmic Heralds simultaneously. So, no. Hawkman isn't beyond Black Panther's ability to put down. It's a fact. You think Hawkman one-shotted Shazam there. To troll someone, you need to actually maintain a facade of doubt as to your imbecility. You don't just actually prove yourself to be one.

He was bleeding so I am assuming that means he was cut because a person who has taken blows from cosmic beings would not be made to bleed by blunt force from black panther. You know what happens when hawkman gets cut? He heals. Black panther may not even be able to cut him considering he can make nth metal cover his entire body and black panther may not be able to cut the magical metal.

I love your comment considering you do not further yourself at all but you just manage to call me a trol, hawkman has many advantages which are his healing, durability, movement(flight) and armor. He can also send magical fire in all directions if panther hurts him badly.

Hawkman is much more durable and it is still up for question what panther can do to nth metal which can heal itself aswell as its host.

How is me furthering myself with showings any different then you doing the same(except I did not lie like you did when you said panther put black dwarf down)

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111175242/3988761-500px-shaggy_man_pe_01.jpg

Shaggy man threw him around while fighting more then one person.

The most ridiculous thing you have said is that he did not one shot shazam who's eyes are closed and he is falling to the ground like a brick and he was also not seen after this. You denying canon things does not make them any less canon.

How will he put down hawkman?

Also black dwarf tanked some heat vision from gladiator, that is basically all gladiator did. Panther was well prepped with an army so he likely had tech.

Also it was off panel...

Black Panther beating Black Dwarf is almost uninmaginable, we'd have to see the actual fight and what happened before we start crediting Black Panther with crazy wins.

He obviously beat him really bad, but who knows what happened.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Black Panther beating Black Dwarf is almost uninmaginable, we'd have to see the actual fight and what happened before we start crediting Black Panther with crazy wins.

He obviously beat him really bad, but who knows what happened.

I agree, he had prep and an army and if he had enough time to gather troups he had tech for sure.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17


Oh and if you hadn't noticed, on page 2 I did say Hawkman wins. I will add with much difficulty.



Fair enough I will only focus on this last sentence of yours, because there's no point in this debate arguing about things when we both largely agree.

However, I got it wrong - multiple times, no less - about Reed helping T'Challa up, so I will admit it here.

Originally posted by ODG
If you read Justice League of America #5 more closely, Hawkman was losing to Shaggy Man pretty steadily. And pretty badly. The JLA ended up defeating him. And as for Blockbuster, Catwoman kicked the sh1t out of him somehow.

At least Black Dwarf made a stand against Gladiator, Ronan, Super-Skrull and Annihilus.

In any event, KoTD Black Panther has consistently dealt with blows from class 100s: Namor, Terrax the Enlightened, Black Dwarf. He's even outright defeated a class 100 in Black Dwarf and seemed well on his way to defeating Namor.

He also one-shot Black Swan. Who was way stronger than anybody thought when she gave the entire Illuminati team the business when they confronted/reimprisoned her. She even went on to defeat Doctor Spectrum from the Supreme Power universe during an incursion.

So if we're going by class of opponents, KoTD Black Panther looks to be superior.

Just want to address some points, I see you are currently engaged in a monumental debate against our good friend thingy - truly an epic clash of titans (I hope you aren't too bruised afterwards from the sheer weight of his crafted arguments).

Yes, Hawkman was bleeding/compound fracturing pretty badly, but since then, his healing factor seems to have improved (regrowing limbs etc). And he was hanging. With Blockbuster, whilst you brought up Catwoman, Black Dwarf was getting frustrated against Shang Chi. Yes, I know he had gauntlets etc - and yes, I would place him above Selina - but I'm not sure what your use of Catwoman was meant to prove. In the same comic, Dwarf goes from stalemating with Shang, to hanging with some of the most bloodthirsty heralds in Marvel. These weird inconsistencies happen, and doesn't take away from the original point.

As for the outright defeat of Dwarf, that happened off-panel. Yes, I fully 100% agree - a win is a win. But the circumstances are unknown. I'm not going to add colour to the victory and try to lowball it, but anything could have happened. T'Challa could have just straight up given him a beat down. His arm could have been broken by him tripping over a rock and landing awkwardly - or it could have withstood a full bloodlusted smash from Dwarf's fist, for example.

"truly an epic clash of titans (I hope you aren't too bruised afterwards from the sheer weight of his crafted arguments)."

I will donkey punch your mom bro, do not fudge with this keyboard warrior

Originally posted by thingy150
I agree, he had prep and an army and if he had enough time to gather troups he had tech for sure. what prep? I thought that black dwarf showed up on their stair steps unanounced and started attacking wakanda.

Originally posted by deathslash
what prep? I thought that black dwarf showed up on their stair steps unanounced and started attacking wakanda.

Hmm, well having time to gather a nation also gives you time to grab any tech you have on you. No matter, it is off panel and for all we know he cut him with vibranium and he got woozy. Or toaa showed up and fudged sh*t up. My point is we do not know how the fight went down.

Hawkman takes this fight in my opinion....

Originally posted by thingy150
Hmm, well having time to gather a nation also gives you time to grab any tech you have on you. No matter, it is off panel and for all we know he cut him with vibranium and he got woozy. Or toaa showed up and fudged sh*t up. My point is we do not know how the fight went down.

Hawkman takes this fight in my opinion.... I'll respect your opinion. But I personally believe that t'challa has the tools, intelligence and skill to take the majority.

Originally posted by deathslash
I'll respect your opinion. But I personally believe that t'challa has the tools, intelligence and skill to take the majority.

How will he get past the major durability and healing of hawkman? I do not think he can put him down.

Originally posted by deathslash
I'll respect your opinion. But I personally believe that t'challa has the tools, intelligence and skill to take the majority.

Shields, invisibility, superior fighting skills, much faster, weapons that had Namor on the ropes (who Is superior to Hawkman).

Why don't you post in the Colossus thread anymore :-(

Originally posted by carver9
Shields, invisibility, superior fighting skills, much faster, weapons that had Namor on the ropes (who Is superior to Hawkman).

Does nothing to show how he can put hawkman down, you need to stay out of hawkman fights because you have admitted you have not read any new 52 hawkman....

Originally posted by carver9
Shields, invisibility, superior fighting skills, much faster, weapons that had Namor on the ropes (who Is superior to Hawkman).

Shields over HF that heals impalement? I'd say it's a wash. What's the strongest they've tanked?

Invisibility? It might not even work on Hawkman.

Faster? Debateable. But, agreed, New 52 Hawkman has nowhere near the number of feats BP has.

Weapons that he had prepped? Weren't they the miniature suns?

Here is some feats for Hawkman I listed last summer in Wolverine vs Hawkman thread.

Originally posted by Supermutant
Of course I'm comparing Wolverine when he had a healing factor b/c current Logan would get curb stomp.

Hawkman takes massive punishment from Shaggyman android then resists being torn apart by Flash, Cyborg, Aquaman, and Green Lantern androids all design by Pr. Ivo. Ivo states that they are having a hard time trying to put Hawkman down. Continues fighting Shaggyman when JLA arrives.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3217456-justice+league+of+america+%282013-%29+005-005.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3217457-justice+league+of+america+%282013-%29+005-007.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3217461-justice+league+of+america+%282013-%29+005-009.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3217462-justice+league+of+america+%282013-%29+005-010.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3217463-justice+league+of+america+%282013-%29+005-012.jpg

Punches Blockbuster so hard that he almost goes into orbit.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3212723-the+savage+hawkman+%282011-%29+020-015.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3212721-the+savage+hawkman+%282011-%29+020-016.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3212722-the+savage+hawkman+%282011-%29+020-017.jpg

Is impaled through chest and heart, heals immediately.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3211233-savagehawkman_18_thegroup-013.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3211234-savagehawkman_18_thegroup-014.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3211235-savagehawkman_18_thegroup-015.jpg

Explains some of the nth metal capabilities.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3211041-deathstroke_14_thegroup_015.jpg

Restores Hawkman's wings.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3203566-savagehawkman_0_thegroup_014.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3203567-savagehawkman_0_thegroup_015.jpg

Heals instantly from being shot in back by sniper (Pike).

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3208804-savagehawkman_12_thegroup_002.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3208805-savagehawkman_12_thegroup_003.jpg

Fly speed is up to 500 mph

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3208908-greenarrow_14_thegroup_006.jpg

Berserker Mode (full combat mode) Nth metal covers entire body and enhances stats. With one shot sends Blockbuster through cars, gets crushed by two cars w/o damage, and pounds Blockbuster through concrete.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3212709-the+savage+hawkman+%282011-%29+020-007.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3212710-the+savage+hawkman+%282011-%29+020-009.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3212711-the+savage+hawkman+%282011-%29+020-010.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3212712-the+savage+hawkman+%282011-%29+020-011.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3212713-the+savage+hawkman+%282011-%29+020-012.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3212714-the+savage+hawkman+%282011-%29+020-013.jpg

So this ends one of two ones, Logan gets koed after being punched into orbit or gets his head cut off from Hawkman's nth metal axe.

Originally posted by carver9
Scans showing that he wasn't proficient with his abilities. Also, please provide scans that tells us he increased In power and skill since then.

Also, the DS/Hawkman fight took place in Savage Hawkman #14. Here is Savage Hawkman #11, where he's still learning about Nth metal and his past:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/qwirtle/SavageHawkman_11_TheGroup_002_zps861be80d.jpg

More to that, he has pretty insane energy projection:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/qwirtle/SavageHawkman_2_TheGroup_003_zps103c9640.jpg

AND, I doubt invisibility will help BP:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/qwirtle/SavageHawkman_9_TheGroup_020_zps37f5e585.jpg

Originally posted by thingy150
Hmm, well having time to gather a nation also gives you time to grab any tech you have on you. No matter, it is off panel and for all we know he cut him with vibranium and he got woozy. Or toaa showed up and fudged sh*t up. My point is we do not know how the fight went down.

Hawkman takes this fight in my opinion....

I'm still sticking with Panther

I don't see why the daggers couldn't phase through the Nth metal and hit vital organs.

Originally posted by Vanguard
I'm still sticking with Panther

I don't see why the daggers couldn't phase through the Nth metal and hit vital organs.

Not that that would do anything:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3211235-savagehawkman_18_thegroup-015.jpg

To add to Darksaint:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/12/120679/3965613-3827521-justice%2Bleague%2Bunited%2B%282014-%29%2B001-011.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/12/120679/3965614-3889706-justice%2Bleague%2Bunited%2B%282014-%29%2B002-010.jpg

He is able to regrow limbs and he has taken punishment from wonder woman, aquaman and shaggy man which is mostly due to his uber healing factor.

The "vital" organs thing shows how ill equipped you guys are to argue against hawkman.

Originally posted by Supermutant
Here is some feats for Hawkman I listed last summer in Wolverine vs Hawkman thread.
Well alrighty then..

Nice scans. I'm leaning towards Hawkman even more.

Ehhhhhh......Still going Panther

Originally posted by thingy150
To add to Darksaint:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/12/120679/3965613-3827521-justice%2Bleague%2Bunited%2B%282014-%29%2B001-011.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/12/120679/3965614-3889706-justice%2Bleague%2Bunited%2B%282014-%29%2B002-010.jpg

He is able to regrow limbs and he has taken punishment from wonder woman, aquaman and shaggy man which is mostly due to his uber healing factor.

The "vital" organs thing shows how ill equipped you guys are to argue against hawkman.

Shaggy Man, I'll give you, but Wonder Woman and Aquaman are bad benchmarks because they tend to hold back a lot.

Pre Nu52, with a less uber healing factor, Carter was taking shots from heavy hitters, including from Black Adam in Black Reign. But in the Black Adam mini, he gets mauled.

Not to say those aren't impressive scans. But, has he actually shrugged off getting shot through the heart, his throat ripped, a lung ruptured, or anything close to it?

All Panther has to do is incapacitate him to win, even if he recovers quickly.

Originally posted by cdtm
Shaggy Man, I'll give you, but Wonder Woman and Aquaman are bad benchmarks because they tend to hold back a lot.

Pre Nu52, with a less uber healing factor, Carter was taking shots from heavy hitters, including from Black Adam in Black Reign. But in the Black Adam mini, he gets mauled.

Not to say those aren't impressive scans. But, has he actually shrugged off getting shot through the heart, his throat ripped, a lung ruptured, or anything close to it?

All Panther has to do is incapacitate him to win, even if he recovers quickly.

Love how you do not know the context of wonder woman when it I stated this and showed it. SHE WAS POSSESSED AND BLOODLUSTED WHEN SHE HIT HIM!

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3211233-savagehawkman_18_thegroup-013.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3211234-savagehawkman_18_thegroup-014.jpg

Next scan is not working but he heals right after, he gets impaled through the heart just like you asked. Incapacitate means to stop him which if he comes back right after that does not count as incapacitation and he will continue to fight.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, the DS/Hawkman fight took place in Savage Hawkman #14. Here is Savage Hawkman #11, where he's still learning about Nth metal and his past:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/qwirtle/SavageHawkman_11_TheGroup_002_zps861be80d.jpg

More to that, he has pretty insane energy projection:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/qwirtle/SavageHawkman_2_TheGroup_003_zps103c9640.jpg

AND, I doubt invisibility will help BP:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/qwirtle/SavageHawkman_9_TheGroup_020_zps37f5e585.jpg

In the end the magical fire/energy projection will give him the win no matter what considering if panther hurts him bad then this will happen on autopilot.

Originally posted by thingy150
I will donkey punch your mom bro, do not fudge with this keyboard warrior

DS' asian tiger mom would peg you to death.

Originally posted by thingy150
Love how you do not know the context of wonder woman when it I stated this and showed it. SHE WAS POSSESSED AND BLOODLUSTED WHEN SHE HIT HIM!

I don't read Nu52.




Nice scans.

On "coming back not counting", though:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178081/4004005-dsfsdfs.jpg




Wolverine came back right after that. Next panel, he had Spider-Oct in a stranglehold.

It still counts as a win on the forums.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Just want to address some points, I see you are currently engaged in a monumental debate against our good friend thingy - truly an epic clash of titans (I hope you aren't too bruised afterwards from the sheer weight of his crafted arguments). The avalanche of asininity he poses threatens this thread, true. But that'd be just another day on KMC. Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, Hawkman was bleeding/compound fracturing pretty badly, but since then, his healing factor seems to have improved (regrowing limbs etc). And he was hanging. With Blockbuster, whilst you brought up Catwoman, Black Dwarf was getting frustrated against Shang Chi. Yes, I know he had gauntlets etc - and yes, I would place him above Selina - but I'm not sure what your use of Catwoman was meant to prove. In the same comic, Dwarf goes from stalemating with Shang, to hanging with some of the most bloodthirsty heralds in Marvel. These weird inconsistencies happen, and doesn't take away from the original point. It's true that Shang Chi frustrated Black Dwarf. But you can hardly call that a stalemate. Shang Chi was fairly getting stomped on by the look of him. It's not uncommon for vastly superior beings to underestimate a mere human's tenacity or toy with them. Then again, Shang Chi has stood up to Hiroim the Oldstrong before he was ever equipped with Starktech. So there's precedent.

The difference being, Catwoman defeated Blockbuster outright. Shang Chi and Black Widow were getting stomped on by Black Dwarf. Not even close to being comparable and, therefore, one can hardly poo-poo away the Black Dwarf showing by citing to Blockbuster. Originally posted by DarkSaint85
As for the outright defeat of Dwarf, that happened off-panel. Yes, I fully 100% agree - a win is a win. But the circumstances are unknown. I'm not going to add colour to the victory and try to lowball it, but anything could have happened. T'Challa could have just straight up given him a beat down. His arm could have been broken by him tripping over a rock and landing awkwardly - or it could have withstood a full bloodlusted smash from Dwarf's fist, for example. There isn't much to be gained from speculating that Black Panthers victory wasn't anything but a legitimate affair. Stick with what's within the four corners of the book. Had T'Challa thanked Shuri for helping him, we could surmise he had help. Had T'challa jumped into that battle with his Dora Milaje at his side, we could surmise he didn't fight on his own. We saw none of that before or alluded to after the fact. We've seen him take on Namor in a battle to the death. We've seen him one-shot Black Swan. We saw Black Dwarf run away from him in Wakanda.

Iron Fist's win over Colossus happened off panel. No one (sane ) questioned it.

Cry foul over the win if you want, if the writer wanted extenuating circumstances, he'd write in extenuating circumstances.