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Superboy Prime Vs

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All of Bleach,

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All of Naruto,

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And all of DBZ.

Fight takes place in Metropolis at sunset. Entire planet is accessible. Sun is only up in Metropolis for 30 minutes. No other heroes from DC may help.

With a planet full of people, and Superboy Prime not caring who lives or dies as long as he can win and look like a hero, can these three anime's prove they have what it takes to defeat the crazed Kryptonian, or with they succumb to the might of the villain?

Before the fight, the anime teams can set up a strategy to prepare to take Prime down. The combined series have 15 minutes before Prime starts his slaughter, and Goku knows all about Prime and his weaknesses due to mental contact with King Kai.

All anime characters start in their primes, and Goku has SSJG, Whiss is present as well as Bills, Broly, Buu, and all other living DBZ characters.

Naruto verse has all living characters in primes, including Kabuto who has edo tensei from the beginning, with Itachi, Deidara, Kakazu, Nagato, Muu, Second Mizukage, Third Raikage, etc. Naruto and Sasuke have full control over their Rikudo powers, and Kakashi still has both Mangekyo sharingans(meaning Obito is not present). Kaguya is also present, but realizes her only chance of survival is to work with the others, as does Madara, who has both rinnegan, but no Jyuubi inside him. Orochimaru also has edo tensei, and begins with Hashirama, Tobirama, Sarutobi, Minato, and Shisui Uchiha all summoned. Minato has chakra mode, and sage mode at the start, and Hashirama has God Sage mode activated as well as the Ten thousand hand idol summoned, Shisui has his Susano'o from the game as well as both Mangekyo eyes. All other characters begin in their strongest forms(Sasuke- Perfect Susano'o, Sakura- Mitotic regeneration, Itachi- Susano'o, etc.). Danzo is also present, with 10 sharingan eyes in his arm, and his Shisui eye can be used once, even though Shisui also has both eyes.

Bleach verse has all current, living characters, with all the abilities they have displayed so far. For characters who have undefined abilities, assume they are in their strongest previous forms. The Sternritter, Soul Reapers, Espada, etc, are all present, and begin in their strongest forms(Vollstandig, Bankai, Ressurrection, etc.). Aizen is also present, and in his unawakened form with his regular sword. He has the Hogyoku inside him, and can go into any form at any time he pleases, but he cannot use his sword abilities in any form other than his beginning form.

All anime characters are against Prime only, so there will be no friendly fire, so to speak.

Superboy will be in his regular costume, not his solar armor. He begins at full power, and can use all his displayed abilities.

All are blood-lusted, but Prime is still his usual, cocky self.

Who wins?

So many idiots to kill, so little time.

Prime blows there planet up at the end just for fun.

Prime Is overrated and DBZ is underrated.

DBZ is underrated yes. But it is also overrated when some individual use powerscaling to try and make them seem unbeatable.

Ino reads his mind and Goku ITs him into a red star.

Toriko would've been a better choice than Bleach. Midora, Ichiryu, and Jirou are actually planet level in power. Hell, Toriko, Coco, Sani, and Zebra aren't as strong as they are and they could still solo Bleach.

Originally posted by bbrem123
DBZ is underrated yes. But it is also overrated when some individual use powerscaling to try and make them seem unbeatable.

Depends on how you look at power scaling. Example, I think Raditz can generate far more power than Roshi...no contest.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Ino reads his mind and Goku ITs him into a red star. Nah.

Originally posted by Esomark
Toriko would've been a better choice than Bleach. Midora, Ichiryu, and Jirou are actually planet level in power. Hell, Toriko, Coco, Sani, and Zebra aren't as strong as they are and they could still solo Bleach.

Well the point wasn't to try throwing planet level characters at Prime.

Anyone here who knows of his feats, knows that planet level strength is less than nothing compared to him. He survived a universe blowing up on him when he fought the Monarch.

The reason I added Bleach and Naruto at all, even though otherwise they would just be side-casualties of a battle between Prime and Vegetto in the end, was simply because of all the hax their verses can bring into the fray, with Aizen's sword abilities, Sasuke's genjutsu on top of Infinite tsukiyomi, Kaguya's dimension warping, Kakashi's intangibility, Juha Bach's power stealing abilities, Sternritter B's monstrous heat abilities(still not on par with what Prime has tanked, but still interesting), etc, etc, etc. We all know here that Prime could just fly through all these verses with no trouble, other than DBZ, but that's why I gave them prep. DBZ verse can hold Prime off while the Nardo and Bleach verses dumb their haxes on him. I wonder if he could survive all that at once...

Originally posted by carver9
Depends on how you look at power scaling. Example, I think Raditz can generate far more power than Roshi...no contest.

Actually, you're underrating Roshi quite a bit. His max power was supposedly enough to kill great ape Goku, and even blew up the moon. That's a kind of power only seen in DB later on when Piccolo jr. had shown up.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Ino reads his mind and Goku ITs him into a red star.

Well yeah, but what would that do? Prime wouldn't be affected just by being close to a red star. After a prolonged fight, flying through a 500 mile thick wall of Green lantern will power, and a bunch of other shit, he got slammed through a red sun by Superman 1 and Conner Kent, and still managed to fight through the JLA and kill Conner.

Let's face it, Goku isn't strong-arming Prime through a star here. I just don't see a blood-lusted Prime letting him warp him to a red star, sit there and charge up a kamehameha to send him through the star, and let it hit him, with no protest. Not to mention, he would just see the star behind him, and fly back to Earth within like two seconds, and at that point probably just ram through the planet, since Goku put him in outer space anyway.

The only way they could really stop Prime from destroying the planet, is fighting him ON the planet, otherwise he'd be such a brat that he'd destroy it because they bored him.

So many things wrong in that post..

So this is (DBZ + Kaguya) vs Superboy Prime? Nice

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
So this is (DBZ + Kaguya) vs Superboy Prime? Nice

No, all of DBZ, all of Naruto, and all of Bleach. Read the OP.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
No, all of DBZ, all of Naruto, and all of Bleach. Read the OP.

Someone doesn't get sarcasm. Besides, Bleach and the rest of the Naruto cast can't do anything here.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Someone doesn't get sarcasm. Besides, Bleach and the rest of the Naruto cast can't do anything here.

Yeah, that someone is you. Also, Buzz-B's fire powers are stronger than Yamamoto's, which are 1 million degrees centigrade. Those temperatures can definitely hurt Prime, although they wouldn't do any serious damage to him. The Naruto cast can use genjutsu on him, or seal him. Kakashi can use kamui, and has ten minutes of intangibility. Naruto's strength is also enough to stall him, and Sasuke can teleport him so Goku could use IT to warp him to a red star or something, so that Vegeta or someone could blast him through it. Or maybe even Goku could make a barrier and have Kakashi warp him into the star while Goku made a barrier to keep him in space when he warped Prime to the star. Or hell, maybe even Whiss could go all out, and warp him to a red star with instantaneous movement(assuming he has it), and blast Prime through it, and maybe have Bills finish him off with Goku.

There's a lot of ways this could go, but Naruto and Bleach could definitely prove useful in some of the situations.

I don't think that counts as sarcasm..

Btw didnt SBP fly into the Sun?


But yeah, only 1% of the cast are worth mentioning.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Yeah, that someone is you. Also, Buzz-B's fire powers are stronger than Yamamoto's, which are 1 million degrees centigrade. Those temperatures can definitely hurt Prime, although they wouldn't do any serious damage to him. The Naruto cast can use genjutsu on him, or seal him. Kakashi can use kamui, and has ten minutes of intangibility. Naruto's strength is also enough to stall him, and Sasuke can teleport him so Goku could use IT to warp him to a red star or something, so that Vegeta or someone could blast him through it. Or maybe even Goku could make a barrier and have Kakashi warp him into the star while Goku made a barrier to keep him in space when he warped Prime to the star. Or hell, maybe even Whiss could go all out, and warp him to a red star with instantaneous movement(assuming he has it), and blast Prime through it, and maybe have Bills finish him off with Goku.

There's a lot of ways this could go, but Naruto and Bleach could definitely prove useful in some of the situations.

Where is it stated or shown that Buzz B's fire is more powerful? By feats Yamamoto's sun armor is still superior. The Naruto verse isn't nearly fast enough for any of that to matter. How is Goku going to magically find a Red Star? And how would he survive when near it?

Also didn't you say yourself that the Naruto and Bleach verses would just be casualties in this?

Originally posted by BloodRain
I don't think that counts as sarcasm..

Btw didnt SBP fly into the Sun?


But yeah, only 1% of the cast are worth mentioning.

Whatever.

Well, not exactly. Superman of Earth 1(I think it was Earth 1, not entirely sure), and Conner Kent flew him through a red star, to try and de-power him. Prime though still managed to kill Conner, and survive against the JLA afterwords.

Yes though, only about 1%, maybe even less, of the cast of this fight are worth mentioning. The reason the fodder ninja are here though, is so Kaguya can use the gods tree to take their chakra as a battery(since they can revive them with the dragon balls afterwords). The fodder soul reapers are here to feed Juha Bach, and etc. The main characters of both verses, or even side-characters with at least some screen-time(such as Choji, Yumichika, etc.) are involved in the fight further than just being sustenance for stronger characters. Honestly though, Ino, her dad, and the other Yamanaka's, being able to transmit the thoughts of everyone to every other person at once, are VERY useful here, for planning strategies with so many people at once, and executing them.

Does that not scratch off the "Throw him into a red sun" plan? And isn't the swords temp below the core of a red sun?

Why not just add Kaguya and Yhwach at their fullest potentials with select individuals for aid, just like what you did with Goku and King Kai?

That makes sense. Though I would argue that Yhwach's power is too much of an unknown at the moment: no one else in Bleach really matters tbh.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Well, not exactly. Superman of Earth 1(I think it was Earth 1, not entirely sure), and Conner Kent flew him through a red star, to try and de-power him. Prime though still managed to kill Conner, and survive against the JLA afterwords.

It was mainstream Superman (Earth 0) and golden age Superman (Earth 2). And it did mostly depower him although he managed to kill Earth 2 Superman before being defeated by mainstream Supes.

Anyway, Prime wins here.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Whatever.

Well, not exactly. Superman of Earth 1(I think it was Earth 1, not entirely sure), and Conner Kent flew him through a red star, to try and de-power him. Prime though still managed to kill Conner, and survive against the JLA afterwords.

Yes though, only about 1%, maybe even less, of the cast of this fight are worth mentioning. The reason the fodder ninja are here though, is so Kaguya can use the gods tree to take their chakra as a battery(since they can revive them with the dragon balls afterwords). The fodder soul reapers are here to feed Juha Bach, and etc. The main characters of both verses, or even side-characters with at least some screen-time(such as Choji, Yumichika, etc.) are involved in the fight further than just being sustenance for stronger characters. Honestly though, Ino, her dad, and the other Yamanaka's, being able to transmit the thoughts of everyone to every other person at once, are VERY useful here, for planning strategies with so many people at once, and executing them.

Get your facts straight, Conner never flew Prime to the3 sun, That was Kal-L and Kal-El.

Conner is Super Boy, who prior to that fight died while fighting Prime.

Also, Prime kills everyone.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Does that not scratch off the "Throw him into a red sun" plan? And isn't the swords temp below the core of a red sun?

Why not just add Kaguya and Yhwach at their fullest potentials with select individuals for aid, just like what you did with Goku and King Kai?

Not really. It just depends who's throwing him into the sun, because if he stayed in the core, he'd lose a lot more power than he did against the two Supermen. Yes though, the temp is lower than the core of a red sun, but would still be enough to phase him. Not damage him significantly, but still hurt/stall him.

Well I would do that with Kaguya, but tbh, Kakashi and genjutsu users in Naruto have a better chance against Prime than her, because of Kakashi's hax mangekyo abilities, and the fact that his mental resistance is pretty weak.

Ywach is too big of a variable at this point though. We don't know how strong he is, and we certainly don't have any feats to back it up.

Originally posted by SquallX
Get your facts straight, Conner never flew Prime to the3 sun, That was Kal-L and Kal-El.

Conner is Super Boy, who prior to that fight died while fighting Prime.

Also, Prime kills everyone.

Oh, my bad.

Does it really matter though? The feat is still the same: "After a prolonged fight, he survived getting blasted through a red sun, and still managed to kill one Superman.".

So how does Prime resist the genjutsu's placed on him by Itachi, Sasuke, Kaguya, Madara, or any other genjutsu power-houses from Naruto? And how does he kill Kakashi, given that he's intangible for ten minutes. How would he resist Kamui?

Also, what could he do against Aizen's shikai? Prime doesn't have any extra-sensory abilities, just suped-up versions of his normal senses. What would he do when Bazz-B and Yamamoto dump millions of degree's calvin of fire on his head, and Goku is doing even more than that by utilizing attacks hotter than the suns core?

What could he manage to do when there are a dozen people warping him into any red suns they can find, to weaken or kill him?

I'm in no way, shape or form saying this is a definite win for either side, but it's not a piece of cake for Prime either. In fact, it would be a difficult, at least, fight for just about ANYONE in all of fiction.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Ino reads his mind and Goku ITs him into a red star.

Ino gets speedblitzed and IT requires ki signatures to work

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Ino gets speedblitzed and IT requires ki signatures to work

Well she's not really fighting here, she's just acting as a go-between to communicate with everyone.

Stars have ki signatures. Proven when King Kai told Goku that he could make a much larger spirit bomb on Earth, because the sun was much larger than on his planet. So Goku can basically absorb solar energy too.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Oh, my bad.

Does it really matter though? The feat is still the same: "After a prolonged fight, he survived getting blasted through a red sun, and still managed to kill one Superman.".

So how does Prime resist the genjutsu's placed on him by Itachi, Sasuke, Kaguya, Madara, or any other genjutsu power-houses from Naruto? And how does he kill Kakashi, given that he's intangible for ten minutes. How would he resist Kamui?

Also, what could he do against Aizen's shikai? Prime doesn't have any extra-sensory abilities, just suped-up versions of his normal senses. What would he do when Bazz-B and Yamamoto dump millions of degree's calvin of fire on his head, and Goku is doing even more than that by utilizing attacks hotter than the suns core?

What could he manage to do when there are a dozen people warping him into any red suns they can find, to weaken or kill him?

I'm in no way, shape or form saying this is a definite win for either side, but it's not a piece of cake for Prime either. In fact, it would be a difficult, at least, fight for just about ANYONE in all of fiction.



you are so ****ing funny if you think any if those things can hurt Prime.
1. Genjutsu even if it works would still serve no purpose. Why? because with just one casually punch, Prime would annihilate them. Pretty sure Prime has already hit intangible beings already. Kamui is useless when Prime already escaped from a Universal to Multiversal level prison called the Speed Force.

2.Aizen shikai is useless when Prime can just retcon punch all of them. Thinking Bazz-B and Yamamoto' s useless little flames can damage Prime. When he's taking Kal's heat vision that's so hot that it can't be calculated, same heat vison that can reignite dying stars. For god sake, Goku's blast are mot as hot as the as the ****ing sun.

3. Now prove these idiots know where the **** there gonna find a red sun. Now prove how these idiots can bring him to said red sun without dying in space, or not having there necks snaps.

4. Prime baby shakes these useless thrash.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Not really. It just depends who's throwing him into the sun, because if he stayed in the core, he'd lose a lot more power than he did against the two Supermen. Yes though, the temp is lower than the core of a red sun, but would still be enough to phase him. Not damage him significantly, but still hurt/stall him.

Well I would do that with Kaguya, but tbh, Kakashi and genjutsu users in Naruto have a better chance against Prime than her, because of Kakashi's hax mangekyo abilities, and the fact that his mental resistance is pretty weak.

Ywach is too big of a variable at this point though. We don't know how strong he is, and we certainly don't have any feats to back it up.
Two Supes managed do this feat. First it's the assumption that someone will replicate this, then the assumption that they could keep him within longer than two Supes did. But if core, which I May likely be reading wrong be seems to be an awful degree above the swords, did little to nothing, how will the sword?

Isn't he notorious for some dimension breaking punch, to escape from one? Something like that. Ah, has he been shown being susceptible to mind tricks

Not having feats is not a good thing. We can only judge him from his showings, maybe discuss hype and comments made.

No one here is strong enough nor fast enough to replicate Kal-El and Kal-L strategy against Prime. Prime would kill them to death.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Two Supes managed do this feat. First it's the assumption that someone will replicate this, then the assumption that they could keep him within longer than two Supes did. But if core, which I May likely be reading wrong be seems to be an awful degree above the swords, did little to nothing, how will the sword?

Isn't he notorious for some dimension breaking punch, to escape from one? Something like that. Ah, has he been shown being susceptible to mind tricks

Not having feats is not a good thing. We can only judge him from his showings, maybe discuss hype and comments made.

Yeah, but if two weakened Supermen can achieve the feat, I think the team can as well, considering the SSJG level characters plus have at LEAST galaxy level potency, which is something Prime cannot match in any category other than durability. Goku and Bills or higher could definitely push him into, or through the star. Hell, a handful of Super Saiyan's and a Super Saiyan 2 managed to push Broly through the sun.

The point is that the swords could definitely to some damage, even stun him, especially if he'd been pushed through a red sun. Even a single Green lantern subdued him after that.

Yeah, his retcon punch is pretty crazy. The context is a little skewed the way most people see it, but he did manage to punch his way into another reality. Kind of like how Buu and Gotenks screamed into another reality.

Yeah though, he is pretty susceptible to mind attacks, but he's also able to regenerate from them just like physical attacks, so they aren't a true end-game where he's concerned. Magic doesn't hurt him especially either, so that's out of the question here too.

Originally posted by SquallX


you are so ****ing funny if you think any if those things can hurt Prime.
1. Genjutsu even if it works would still serve no purpose. Why? because with just one casually punch, Prime would annihilate them. Pretty sure Prime has already hit intangible beings already. Kamui is useless when Prime already escaped from a Universal to Multiversal level prison called the Speed Force.

2.Aizen shikai is useless when Prime can just retcon punch all of them. Thinking Bazz-B and Yamamoto' s useless little flames can damage Prime. When he's taking Kal's heat vision that's so hot that it can't be calculated, same heat vison that can reignite dying stars. For god sake, Goku's blast are mot as hot as the as the ****ing sun.

3. Now prove these idiots know where the **** there gonna find a red sun. Now prove how these idiots can bring him to said red sun without dying in space, or not having there necks snaps.

4. Prime baby shakes these useless thrash.

1. What? How is that in any way, shape or form an argument against Genjutsu? Prime's infantile, fragile mind has shown him to be susceptible to mental attacks before. One good infinite Tsukiyomi should be enough to make him a vegetable.

2. Prime escaped the hold of Bart Allen, who had taken him into the speed force. This is proven by the Speed force being destroyed afterwards, and by Jay Garrick stating the Speed force was gone as soon as he was pushed into it. That feat only proves that Prime is stronger than Bart(which is obvious), and that he can break through dimensions, which we already knew. Prime has universal feats, like surviving the explosion of the Monarch, but that isn't one of them.

3. How can Superboy retcon punch any of them if he doesn't know where they are, and Aizen makes him hit himself with star-wrecking punches because Prime can't control any of his senses? That's the entire point of Kyoka Suigetsu in the first place.

4. Actually, Goku has tanked a laser beam that destroyed an island, Against Gero. You're aware that with even low-balling that feat, the temperatures in that laser would be around 11 times hotter than the suns core, right? That is something Prime has only dealt with at his peak, and even then he had trouble.

5. King Kai is in contact with Goku. He knows the location of every star, and planet in his section of the universe. He could point out the source of ki to Goku, and Goku could teleport to it. Or, you know, Whiss could simply warp them to it, or tell him where it is, considering he has divination, capable of nigh-omniscience.

6. Goku could ram him through the star because he has done so to something like three enemies before. However, Goku is not as physically strong as Prime. Therefor, it would take a strong ki attack from Goku, like a kamehameha wave. This would work because SSJG Goku is around the level of Vegetto, who punched through Buu's multiversal barrier, as Buu was screaming so hard that it had the potential to destroy the all of reality.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Yeah, but if two weakened Supermen can achieve the feat, I think the team can as well, considering the SSJG level characters plus have at LEAST galaxy level potency, which is something Prime cannot match in any category other than durability. Goku and Bills or higher could definitely push him into, or through the star. Hell, a handful of Super Saiyan's and a Super Saiyan 2 managed to push Broly through the sun.

The point is that the swords could definitely to some damage, even stun him, especially if he'd been pushed through a red sun. Even a single Green lantern subdued him after that.

Yeah, his retcon punch is pretty crazy. The context is a little skewed the way most people see it, but he did manage to punch his way into another reality. Kind of like how Buu and Gotenks screamed into another reality.

Yeah though, he is pretty susceptible to mind attacks, but he's also able to regenerate from them just like physical attacks, so they aren't a true end-game where he's concerned. Magic doesn't hurt him especially either, so that's out of the question here too.
Weakened, maybe. But they were still strong enough to hold off a pre-red sun SBP to do this feat. And don't forget they did this with physical strength to restrain him. Being pushed by a blast won't hold him in place like duel grappling will. The only reason it happened with Cooler and Broly is because both were weakened. Cooler being struck with greater force than when Gohan winded Cell, and a weak point strike for Broly, plus Cooler didn't even notice he was heading for the Sun until the last second..

Why though? A red giant core can be around 100mil C, nearly 10 times the blades temperature, they they went pretty much directly through the middle. And it barely effected them. Superman, who was already beaten (I'd assume), weakened by Knite surrounding them and getting weaker from red sun radiation only said that "Everything was hot" while showing no other signs that the heat and flames were doing much. SBP > Superman > A beaten + Red sun + Kryptonite Superman > Finding 100mil C to be only "Hot". I can't see 15mil doing more to SBP than 100mil did to such a weakened Supes.

So BFR isn't a win? Also, example on the mind attacks? Because if physical attacks, energy attacks, Red Sun tactics and BFRing wont work, mental attacks will literally be the only option even if limited to when he recovers.

Alright so now its Kaguya vs Superboy Prime. This just keeps getting better

Edit: Okay I guess DBZ would provide a distraction for either her or Juubidara to cast IT and this is assuming IT would even work.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Weakened, maybe. But they were still strong enough to hold off a pre-red sun SBP to do this feat. And don't forget they did this with physical strength to restrain him. Being pushed by a blast won't hold him in place like duel grappling will. The only reason it happened with Cooler and Broly is because both were weakened. Cooler being struck with greater force than when Gohan winded Cell, and a weak point strike for Broly, plus Cooler didn't even notice he was heading for the Sun until the last second..

Why though? A red giant core can be around 100mil C, nearly 10 times the blades temperature, they they went pretty much directly through the middle. And it barely effected them. Superman, who was already beaten (I'd assume), weakened by Knite surrounding them and getting weaker from red sun radiation only said that "Everything was hot" while showing no other signs that the heat and flames were doing much. SBP > Superman > A beaten + Red sun + Kryptonite Superman > Finding 100mil C to be only "Hot". I can't see 15mil doing more to SBP than 100mil did to such a weakened Supes.

So BFR isn't a win? Also, example on the mind attacks? Because if physical attacks, energy attacks, Red Sun tactics and BFRing wont work, mental attacks will literally be the only option even if limited to when he recovers.

What? How would a kamehameha not hold him in place? Every other time it's been used in DBZ, it has held the character back, unless they had up a barrier, or were simply so strong they could tank it. Plus, who's to say that only one person would be blasting him? With Gohan, Vegeta, Whiss, Bills, SSJG Goku, SSJ3 Gotenks, Piccolo, etc., blasting Prime all at once, or something like that, the blast alone would hurt him more than the red sun. Not to mention that if that attack was stacked on top of the weakness to the red sun, would have a DEFINITE chance of killing him. Not just that, but what if Aizen cast shikai on him just before they warped him? Then Prime could think he's flying away, and actually be flying into the blast, or even the red sun. Also, knowing how cocky Prime is, and how scared of losing his powers he is, he would undoubtedly fly into the wave before flying away and being called a coward.

Again, if Prime was weakened, and facing attacks from the Z-fighters, that 15 million wouldn't feel too good to him. He would definitely be hurt by it, and probably stunned, even if he wasn't damaged seriously.

Well physical attacks would definitely work, they just wouldn't be a real way to end the fight. Energy attacks would be able to though, given the ridiculous power behind the energy beams in DBZ. Mind attacks would definitely incapacitate him, they just wouldn't kill him. However, Goku throwing his comatose body into a red sun, and blowing it up definitely WOULD.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
What? How would a kamehameha not hold him in place? Every other time it's been used in DBZ, it has held the character back, unless they had up a barrier, or were simply so strong they could tank it. Plus, who's to say that only one person would be blasting him? With Gohan, Vegeta, Whiss, Bills, SSJG Goku, SSJ3 Gotenks, Piccolo, etc., blasting Prime all at once, or something like that, the blast alone would hurt him more than the red sun. Not to mention that if that attack was stacked on top of the weakness to the red sun, would have a DEFINITE chance of killing him. Not just that, but what if Aizen cast shikai on him just before they warped him? Then Prime could think he's flying away, and actually be flying into the blast, or even the red sun. Also, knowing how cocky Prime is, and how scared of losing his powers he is, he would undoubtedly fly into the wave before flying away and being called a coward.

Again, if Prime was weakened, and facing attacks from the Z-fighters, that 15 million wouldn't feel too good to him. He would definitely be hurt by it, and probably stunned, even if he wasn't damaged seriously.

Well physical attacks would definitely work, they just wouldn't be a real way to end the fight. Energy attacks would be able to though, given the ridiculous power behind the energy beams in DBZ. Mind attacks would definitely incapacitate him, they just wouldn't kill him. However, Goku throwing his comatose body into a red sun, and blowing it up definitely WOULD.

It has only worked on far weaker opponents. Vegeta was already banged up and faced an attack stronger than what he can take. The same for Cooler. And Broly because of weakness exploitation. Whenever a character fires at a stronger character, they can deflect it before exploding or stand up to it. Or very simply for SBP, he can move. Thats why I focused on the grapple, because it limits his movement.

Even under those circumstances.. for what possible reason? So 15mil will hurt and stun a red sun SBP... where 100mil was barely an issue to a red sun Supes who not only was already weaker than him, but was also suffering damage and the effects of Kryptonite? How does this make sense to you?

Okay so dropping physical and energy attacks, mind attacks. Can you show me him being especially vulnerable to them? Or is there no specific showings, which would put him on similar level of Superman in that regard.



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I feel there's too much of a story here for Team 2 to win;
-Will these mental attacks work on him? Can they take place before he wipes them out? Would they even work that well? For how long before he, as said to me, recovers from them?
-Has King Kai shown pinpointing specific stars? Can Goku teleport to a thought without a ki there to track? Can he be teleported without him tearing the porter apart?
-Does anyone have a method of throwing him into a red sun without him resisting or straight up tanking it? How many can survive without any oxygen?


Or a what if. What if SBP flips, or maybe hazed from some mental attack, destroys the planet? There'd only be a very small handful of DB characters left.

Originally posted by BloodRain
It has only worked on far weaker opponents. Vegeta was already banged up and faced an attack stronger than what he can take. The same for Cooler. And Broly because of weakness exploitation. Whenever a character fires at a stronger character, they can deflect it before exploding or stand up to it. Or very simply for SBP, he can move. Thats why I focused on the grapple, because it limits his movement.

Even under those circumstances.. for what possible reason? So 15mil will hurt and stun a red sun SBP... where 100mil was barely an issue to a red sun Supes who not only was already weaker than him, but was also suffering damage and the effects of Kryptonite? How does this make sense to you?

Okay so dropping physical and energy attacks, mind attacks. Can you show me him being especially vulnerable to them? Or is there no specific showings, which would put him on similar level of Superman in that regard.



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I feel there's too much of a story here for Team 2 to win;
-Will these mental attacks work on him? Can they take place before he wipes them out? Would they even work that well? For how long before he, as said to me, recovers from them?
-Has King Kai shown pinpointing specific stars? Can Goku teleport to a thought without a ki there to track? Can he be teleported without him tearing the porter apart?
-Does anyone have a method of throwing him into a red sun without him resisting or straight up tanking it? How many can survive without any oxygen?


Or a what if. What if SBP flips, or maybe hazed from some mental attack, destroys the planet? There'd only be a very small handful of DB characters left.

No, it's worked on plenty of people in the past, even if they were much stronger than the person blasting them. This is because the attacks are either too fast, or big for the other to dodge. Such as when Gohan killed Cell with his kamehameha wave, or when Kid Buu got killed by the spirit bomb. If the blast is strong enough, the person on the receiving end can't just swim out of it. If a universe potent blast hits him head on, he isn't resisting the gravity behind it, considering two weakened Supermen were able to hold him. Plus, what about Amaterasu, which is supposed to be as hot as the sun?

Prime has been hurt by less. A LOT less. The thing is, he simply won't die from anything short of universe+ level power. The 15 mil would definitely be enough to stun him, considering he was hurt by Terra smashing rocks into him.

Mind attacks? Yeah, he was devastated by them when he fought Martian Manhunter, and when Nightshade attacked him. Not so much when Nightshade attacked him, but it showed him to be basically terrified of the dark, and unable to fight in it.

Superboy has never faced mental attacks of the quality and degree of those shown in Naruto and Bleach. It's possible he wouldn't recover from them at all, but he definitely wouldn't heal from them within a few minutes. They would cause him serious damage, and they could be landed on him because Goku and co. could give a distraction to allow it. Again though, physical and energy attacks from the Z-fighters would definitely work on him. Especially with fusion or something, which Prime's arrogant self would probably sit by and let them accomplish.

Yes though, plenty of the characters here can warp him into the sun without him resisting, like Kakashi, Sasuke, Kaguya, and possibly Gremmy. And King Kai was able to instantly tell the Z-fighters the specific location of planet Namek, and even the location of the Saiyan pods as they were coming to Earth, even how long it would take them to get there. He was also able to transmit Goku's voice to every living being in the universe, like it was nothing.

However, it doesn't really matter. Goku could just grab him, warp him there, and fly him through it, since Goku can tank those temps easy, and isn't weakened by a red sun. It wouldn't be that simple, since Prime would be fighting back the whole time, but it's very possible, especially for Whiss. As long as they don't let him get his power back, they could win.

I'll play devil's advocate for a bit. The BFR approach could work but the problem is assuming Goku should do it. Since this is the DBZ verse in general why not have Cell or Pure Buu do it: they has IT, regen, and can survive in space. Have Beerus or the like hold him down and then poof.

Course that's very unlikely to happen and SBP is faster/stronger than anyone here. Also there's the problem of not knowing where a Red Sun is and SBP resisting and flying back to finish off the rest.

Cell isnt in this thread. And Buu? His anime self could in theory. But who honestly see's the maniac doing the grab/port and blasting him towards a specific sun by a random Kai's instruction?

Yeah, the speed and strength just throws it under a bus.Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
No, it's worked on plenty of people in the past, even if they were much stronger than the person blasting them. This is because the attacks are either too fast, or big for the other to dodge. Such as when Gohan killed Cell with his kamehameha wave, or when Kid Buu got killed by the spirit bomb. If the blast is strong enough, the person on the receiving end can't just swim out of it. If a universe potent blast hits him head on, he isn't resisting the gravity behind it, considering two weakened Supermen were able to hold him. Plus, what about Amaterasu, which is supposed to be as hot as the sun?

Prime has been hurt by less. A LOT less. The thing is, he simply won't die from anything short of universe+ level power. The 15 mil would definitely be enough to stun him, considering he was hurt by Terra smashing rocks into him.

Mind attacks? Yeah, he was devastated by them when he fought Martian Manhunter, and when Nightshade attacked him. Not so much when Nightshade attacked him, but it showed him to be basically terrified of the dark, and unable to fight in it.

Superboy has never faced mental attacks of the quality and degree of those shown in Naruto and Bleach. It's possible he wouldn't recover from them at all, but he definitely wouldn't heal from them within a few minutes. They would cause him serious damage, and they could be landed on him because Goku and co. could give a distraction to allow it. Again though, physical and energy attacks from the Z-fighters would definitely work on him. Especially with fusion or something, which Prime's arrogant self would probably sit by and let them accomplish.

Yes though, plenty of the characters here can warp him into the sun without him resisting, like Kakashi, Sasuke, Kaguya, and possibly Gremmy. And King Kai was able to instantly tell the Z-fighters the specific location of planet Namek, and even the location of the Saiyan pods as they were coming to Earth, even how long it would take them to get there. He was also able to transmit Goku's voice to every living being in the universe, like it was nothing.

However, it doesn't really matter. Goku could just grab him, warp him there, and fly him through it, since Goku can tank those temps easy, and isn't weakened by a red sun. It wouldn't be that simple, since Prime would be fighting back the whole time, but it's very possible, especially for Whiss. As long as they don't let him get his power back, they could win.

Cell was vaporized. Buu /was/ pushing back, which supports what I'm saying as it was an attack just around his level. As you said, it is if the attack is strong enough. And theirs aren't. Especially one without a charge up, which I can't imagine going so well. Sorry, but Ama isn't something to be considered. Assuming the databook didn't throw in another hyperbole like lightspeed Haku, which the manga says it did, thats still only 5k C. Nothing for this thread.

Okay look. If you want to talk heat, talk heat. If you want my input, respond to what I'm saying about the topic. I just want you to answer this: If Superman weakened to such a great extent only remarked that 100mil was hot, for what possible reason will SBP be bothered?

Scans if possible? Only read that MM read his mind at one point, and I know Nightshade just triggered his darkness issues, not a mental attack.

Haven't other Kyrptonians? I've read up that they have more resistance than humans, from MM. So which Genjutsus? Most iirc are broken with physical contact, as do they need.. in this case dangerous circumstances. Which ones will be able to pinpoint a such a mobile combatant who is tangling with others?

Care to show me a shred of evidence that begins to suggest they can warp someone 150Mm away? The key part there being Kai sensing other people, which I said is not the same as sensing a star.

Assuming this all could work, the plan falls flat if Goku dies as he is the only character here who can teleport across such a vast distance. It doesn't help that he can't breath deep in space. Besides Goku needing to grapple such a powerful foe, he will need to port, position Prime, charge up a strong enough blast that Prime wont be able to resist, and hit him before he moves or attacks all while holding his breath... And he's alone by the way. The only way to bring others is through physical contact. Do you see him with a group touching his body trying to tag Prime?

Okay I caught the "living" part in the OP.

IT and Koto are the only genjutsu/metal attacks that appear to be doable: and I'm not even sure those would work.

Hah, it would be ironic if Koto fails due to his mental instability just ****ing up whatever happens after the illusion.

Reality Breaking Punch>all

Originally posted by BloodRain
Cell isnt in this thread. And Buu? His anime self could in theory. But who honestly see's the maniac doing the grab/port and blasting him towards a specific sun by a random Kai's instruction?

Yeah, the speed and strength just throws it under a bus.

Cell was vaporized. Buu /was/ pushing back, which supports what I'm saying as it was an attack just around his level. As you said, it is if the attack is strong enough. And theirs aren't. Especially one without a charge up, which I can't imagine going so well. Sorry, but Ama isn't something to be considered. Assuming the databook didn't throw in another hyperbole like lightspeed Haku, which the manga says it did, thats still only 5k C. Nothing for this thread.

Okay look. If you want to talk heat, talk heat. If you want my input, respond to what I'm saying about the topic. I just want you to answer this: If Superman weakened to such a great extent only remarked that 100mil was hot, for what possible reason will SBP be bothered?

Scans if possible? Only read that MM read his mind at one point, and I know Nightshade just triggered his darkness issues, not a mental attack.

Haven't other Kyrptonians? I've read up that they have more resistance than humans, from MM. So which Genjutsus? Most iirc are broken with physical contact, as do they need.. in this case dangerous circumstances. Which ones will be able to pinpoint a such a mobile combatant who is tangling with others?

Care to show me a shred of evidence that begins to suggest they can warp someone 150Mm away? The key part there being Kai sensing other people, which I said is not the same as sensing a star.

Assuming this all could work, the plan falls flat if Goku dies as he is the only character here who can teleport across such a vast distance. It doesn't help that he can't breath deep in space. Besides Goku needing to grapple such a powerful foe, he will need to port, position Prime, charge up a strong enough blast that Prime wont be able to resist, and hit him before he moves or attacks all while holding his breath... And he's alone by the way. The only way to bring others is through physical contact. Do you see him with a group touching his body trying to tag Prime?

No, Cell's in this thread. Super Perfect Cell. Sorry I didn't specify, just figured people would assume. Pure/Kid Buu is also, as well as Good/Mr. Buu, and Super Buu(assume he somehow kept his absorptions, even though Gohan and co. are here as well). I didn't think I'd have to list every character that was in this, my bad. Anyway though, they could just have Cell warp him, and have the Buu's, Bills and Whiss gang up on him to kill him after they push him through the red sun.

Also, I'm just pointing out here that Prime is immune to magic, so nobody should bring up the Buu's candy beam ability.

The speed and strength throws what under a bus?

Yeah, but going by your logic, Cell could have just flown out of it, since he was still as strong as Gohan. Buu only managed to push the spirit bomb back because Goku was completely drained, and out of energy. It was still very hard for Buu though, which further proves how difficult it is to push away a ki attack once it hits you.

Again, they wouldn't do much to him, but less has been used to stun or subdue him before. He would definitely be hurt by it. What you're saying is the equivalent of saying that touching a hot frying pan won't hurt someone, because they survived touching the fire itself. It would still hurt him, which would stun him, even if only briefly.

I have most of the comic series, but I don't own the one where MM actually invaded Prime's mind, which is the Sinestro corps wars series. He invaded his mind though, and said that while he was weak to mental attacks, they can't do irreversible damage to him, at least by J'onn's standards. However, MM is pretty strong with mental attacks and the like, so I just made his equal to those like Tsukiyomi and Koto. They can damage him, but not kill him. IT would definitely incapacitate him though. The way MM explained it, was that Prime's damaged mental state made it hard to read his thoughts in the first place, let alone control him.

No, the genjutsu in Naruto isn't broken by physical contact. It can only be broken by directly injecting your chakra into the person under it. That, or releasing it before succumbing to it, or even by breaking out of it by flaring off so much energy that you dispel it. The reason Prime can't do that, is because no one would inject chakra into him(and all sharingan exclusive genjutsu happen instantly), and he doesn't know how to release them, and he also doesn't have a way to flare his energy. The only way for him to avoid genjutsu would be to avoid being caught in it, which wouldn't be easy if all he had to do was be touched by the light of the moon, and he didn't know that it would affect him.

Well, none of the people mentioned have ever had trouble with the distance they were warping things, only with the size of them, or the amount of times they had to do it. Also, now that I think about it, Cell could just warp him to the stars core, then warp himself out, and wait for Prime to come out, then attack him with the Buu's, Bills, Whiss, and whatever Saiyan's come to fight him.

Also, in regards to the Goku oxygen thing, I think that is specifically because of the fact that Goku was never trained by Saiyan's. The reason, I think, is something to do with a special training given to Saiyan's to be able to control how much they need to breathe, or something along those lines. The reason I think this, is because Goku has been shown needing oxygen, but Vegeta and other Saiyan's like Bardock, have been able to stay in outer space for extended periods of time with no trouble. Also, either way, Goku can still make a barrier to breathe in space with, just like Broly has been shown capable of.

Well, not true actually. Either Cell, or Goku could actually warp Prime, and the other could be touching everyone else, and warp them to the one who warped Prime. Also, Bills and Whiss could just fly there, since they wouldn't have to cross presumably more than 88 light years or so, and they crossed thousands of galaxies in less than 20 minutes or so. With that speed, it would literally take them less than a tenth of a second to cross 1,000 light years, let alone 100. Also, King Kai can locate a star, and point it's energy out to Goku, or Cell. They can sense the energy, because Goku(and by extension, Cell) can use the energy of a star to fuel his spirit bomb.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Reality Breaking Punch>all

Idk, Super Buu, Buuhan, SSJ3 Gotenks, and all other DBZ characters above them have reality breaking screams.

Reality Breaking scream >= Reality Breaking punch, in my book.

How does prime counter all of the illusionary magic techniques in these verses?

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
The scream was never stated to be suicidal, lol.
Because Buu can survive dimensions crashing on on his own? If he cannot survive the aftereffects, its a suicide scream.


Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
No, SBP has been hurt by lower temps. He's just not good with pain. I can provide scans. The only reason he can survive the sun temps, is because his overall durability is monstrous, he can survive even a universe exploding on him. But he's hurt from Superboy's heat vision. Again, that's like being able to survive touching a hot frying pan, and also touching the stove itself. You'd get burned from both, albeit not as badly from the pan.
Is this then shrugging off the weakened Superman's own words while flying through that star?

Once again, horrible examples as both temps are relatively close. 100milC vs 15milC, just like 100C vs 15C aka water out of a boiled kettle vs hand under the cold water tap. That's the difference.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Whatever. The force would be too much for Prime to simply swim away from.

Alright, I already said my bad, so... Anyway, Cell also has Cell jr.'s he can spawn to help him out, and he has regeneration as well as monstrous physical strength at least on par with Supe's. He stopped a planet destroying asteroid from it's collision with Earth effortlessly, and with one hand. Him and the Jr.'s could definitely hold Prime down.

Well Kaguya warped to different planets several times, and did so easily. Also, yes, King Kai pointed the ki out to Goku of New Namek in the Cell saga to find Dende. New Namek was in a different galaxy. Also, again, stars have ki. Otherwise Goku wouldn't be able to use the sun's energy in a spirit bomb.

Yeah, but Goku also has clearly fought in outer space before. It just chalks up to PIS, so I just think of it as cannon. Plus, the scene where Vegeta got SSJ1 was supported in the Daizenshuu, so it adds some validity to it.

Yeah he's weaker than Goku, but Goku would be able to grapple Prime no problem. Cell, as I already proved, has greater strength than almost all Hulk's, and Goku is much stronger than Cell. Prime would have little chance against a grapple from Cell, and absolutely none against Goku. He'd have even less chance with Cell, if his Jr.'s were helping him.

Doesn't matter. They could all use Kaguya to warp them to the other planet. Also, remember that Obito used Sakura's chakra, and was able to warp a lot further, making it to a different planet. I bet Kaguya could use one of the Buu's ki or something to warp them all to the planet they found themselves on after Prime got smashed through the red sun.
I hope your style isnt to just shrug off a debate and just throw out your opinion. Broly was weakened. Cooler was weakened and faced an attack far above this capacity. Cell was insta vaped, as was Buu when he was unable to push it back. What examples do you have where a character is unable to resist the push? The only one where it was on more equal terms is Goku vs Vegeta, but even then Vegeta proved you can hop off of an attack even more powerful than yourself when already battered. Thats more than enough proof against.

Nothing says its a planet buster in the dubbed, and there is nothing to scale how large it is. However even if we assume its a lifewiper like the dino one which was 5km long, it would only take 125Mt to destroy it. Thats City/Mountain level strength. Anyhow it faces issue as we can clearly hear the ki sound that seems obvious it ki related as he was touching it with an open palm. Either way it wouldn't be Supes strength.

She was dimension hopping. Yes, to find a specific Ki among a planet full of Ki lifeforms. Also an issue has popped up. It took Goku needing to be focusing in the right direction and a few seconds to pinpoint it before he could port. And this was with a planet full of familiar Ki, so even if its argued Kai can sense the Sun, Goku without that sophisticated sensing will fall short. These moments won't work so well while holding onto SBP. Besides, he states in the Buu saga that his IT is limited by distance. That he couldn't get to New Namek as he could barely sense their Ki.

When? PIS would be them fighting in space, not the reverse. Its shown several times that they depend on oxygen. Needing to hold breath under water, Broly needing it (anime), Cell flying into space and praising Frieza's genes to allow this (anime), and Frieza himself with his 30 years of Saiyan experience acknowledged this fact.

Now its been established its a dimension hop, does the hand holding for this hypothetical IT manouver happen before or after someone ports him away?
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Well J'onnz does have very strong TP, but he's never shown something as impressive as Itachi's, or Shisui's genjutsu mangekyo's, or especially as impressive as IT. And no, heat beams are from Prime's vision. The reason DBZ characters are accepted to be immune to genjutsu/illusions/etc. from Naruto and Bleach is because they have ki sense, which is a sixth sense in the series. Naruto and Bleach characters can control all five senses, but not a sixth one. This means SBP would be incapacitated by IT, and unable to resist, or stop the illusion, because all his senses would be controlled.

Reading through his powers, what would that be? Illusions and influencing thoughts, mind control, forced sleep, and like Tsuku he can doing a mind wreck, further is flat shutting a mind down. Even implanting memories an reprogramming minds. IIRC lower characters can replicate their genjutsu. And no, in every event it has never been mentioned or in any way applauded that its due to their ability to sense ki, but to manipulate it in some way. Most mentioned being ki blasts.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Because Buu can survive dimensions crashing on on his own? If he cannot survive the aftereffects, its a suicide scream.



Is this then shrugging off the weakened Superman's own words while flying through that star?

Once again, horrible examples as both temps are relatively close. 100milC vs 15milC, just like 100C vs 15C aka water out of a boiled kettle vs hand under the cold water tap. That's the difference.


I hope your style isnt to just shrug off a debate and just throw out your opinion. Broly was weakened. Cooler was weakened and faced an attack far above this capacity. Cell was insta vaped, as was Buu when he was unable to push it back. What examples do you have where a character is unable to resist the push? The only one where it was on more equal terms is Goku vs Vegeta, but even then Vegeta proved you can hop off of an attack even more powerful than yourself when already battered. Thats more than enough proof against.

Nothing says its a planet buster in the dubbed, and there is nothing to scale how large it is. However even if we assume its a lifewiper like the dino one which was 5km long, it would only take 125Mt to destroy it. Thats City/Mountain level strength. Anyhow it faces issue as we can clearly hear the ki sound that seems obvious it ki related as he was touching it with an open palm. Either way it wouldn't be Supes strength.

She was dimension hopping. Yes, to find a specific Ki among a planet full of Ki lifeforms. Also an issue has popped up. It took Goku needing to be focusing in the right direction and a few seconds to pinpoint it before he could port. And this was with a planet full of familiar Ki, so even if its argued Kai can sense the Sun, Goku without that sophisticated sensing will fall short. These moments won't work so well while holding onto SBP. Besides, he states in the Buu saga that his IT is limited by distance. That he couldn't get to New Namek as he could barely sense their Ki.

When? PIS would be them fighting in space, not the reverse. Its shown several times that they depend on oxygen. Needing to hold breath under water, Broly needing it (anime), Cell flying into space and praising Frieza's genes to allow this (anime), and Frieza himself with his 30 years of Saiyan experience acknowledged this fact.

Now its been established its a dimension hop, does the hand holding for this hypothetical IT manouver happen before or after someone ports him away?


Reading through his powers, what would that be? Illusions and influencing thoughts, mind control, forced sleep, and like Tsuku he can doing a mind wreck, further is flat shutting a mind down. Even implanting memories an reprogramming minds. IIRC lower characters can replicate their genjutsu. And no, in every event it has never been mentioned or in any way applauded that its due to their ability to sense ki, but to manipulate it in some way. Most mentioned being ki blasts.

Yes. If Buu can generate the ki to destroy every dimension, then he can generate the ki to survive that level of destruction. That's why he had up a barrier. Also, Prime didn't survive dimensions crashing into his own. He survived being caught in between dimensions. Something Buu definitely could, considering he doesn't need a power source like Prime does, he can regenerate from less than subatomic particles, and he doesn't need oxygen.

What words? Prime didn't say anything while being flown through Rao. He was just screaming as his flesh melted away.

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Also, are you forgetting the speed that they flew through Rao at? They were flying hundreds of thousands of times the speed of light. They were in contact with Rao for about a millionth of a second. The heat from Rao wasn't even what damaged Prime the most, it was the red solar radiation. They didn't experience even near the full heat of the star. It's like when you wave your hand over a flame, and you're hand moves so fast you don't even feel it.

No, that's not enough proof against. lol, you literally just pointed out one example of a dozen, and even admitted Vegeta was also weakened there. That was, in fact, probably the MOST uneven example, considering Vegeta was able to fight on par with Kaioken X3 Goku. In case you forgot, Goku was really weakened too. Either way, if someone is stronger, it's obviously proven that they can hit someone with the full brunt of a blast. Another good example is how Frieza, who was even stronger than Kaioken X20 Goku had to make another blast of his own just to stop Goku's kamehameha, and couldn't just fly away from it. Again, the only times that's ever happened was when the character waving it off was much stronger than the character shooting it, or they had a barrier up. Hell, Prime couldn't shrug off the Monarch's quantum blasts, that are around as strong as Buu tier blast, and that was with several buff's he doesn't have here. Goku and co have blasts stronger than he could block/redirect, and faster than he could fly away from without a warning. He can't fight and dodge at speeds nearly as high as Goku and co, even though his flight speed is comparable to Bills/Whiss.

Idk about the dub, but in the jap version, Cell says, "Hm, a meteor this size would have the entire planet thanking me for their lives. I think I'll give them a good show instead.". And even assuming it to be a simple life-wiping meteor, doing so to several continents, and not just one super continent like the dino-one, it would have to be approximately 15, or even more, km in diameter. And btw, the dinosaur killing meteor that made the Chicxulub crater in Mexico was "AT LEAST 10 km(6mi) in diameter.", not five. Anyway, a meteor that size would yield around 200 million megatons. Not just that, but Cell stopped that effortlessly with one hand. Now, taking average meteor speed into consideration, the lack of deceleration because of the atmosphere, since Cell was in space with it, that size meteor would yield, to Cell's hand, around 215 million megatons. Now, in terms of sheer kinetic force, that equals around 215,000,000,000,000, or 215 trillion tons or force. That means Cell achieved an effortless lifting feat of 415 trillion tons, with not as much trouble as he had deflecting Goku's many ki blasts. Also, the blasts in question were planet level plus, making Cell's physical strength peak at a measured level much higher than even Superboy Primes, since he had shrugged of star-busting attacks. He even had a solar system busting kamehameha wave.

No, Goku had to concentrate a second or two because he didn't know where New Namek was, but he was still able to sense the tiny power level of the Namekians. Also, it depends on the power level he's trying to warp to. Goku can't warp to something if he can't feel it's ki. However, even without trying to feel it, Goku's SSJ3 power in the Buu saga was felt from across the entire universe, and that was without Gohan or the Kai's even using ki sense. Goku has also shown no trouble with distance in the entire series. The only time IT hasn't worked was when he needed to warp across galaxies, in a brief fraction of a second with no concentration, while about to be vaporized, in a high-stress situation. Otherwise, he can warp any distance, as proven by him constantly warping back and forth between life and death itself. King Kai just had to point the direction of Namek out to him, and what kind of ki to look for.

Kaguya still warped to other planets.

Goku fought Bills in outer space. Also, when did Broly need oxygen? In fact, he stayed frozen under ice for years with no oxygen, and stayed conscious the whole time. He flew his father and him across galaxies as an infant with no oxygen. He even told his father he would survive if a comet slammed into him and the planet without a ship. Also, again, Vegeta and other Saiyan elites have demonstrated traveling in space without oxygen dozens of times.

All the characters could just grab onto Goku's body, and he would warp them after Cell warped Prime to the red sun. Or before, I guess. It doesn't really matter.

Whenever J'onnz has done something as impressive as Itachi or Shisui's genjutsu's, it has been with prep, and/or research. Itachi and Shisui are the best genjutsu users in Naruto, their genjutsu's haven't been replicated, especially not Shisui's. Itachi's have been struggled against, but the only person who's ever beat them was Sasuke, and only because Itachi specifically allowed him to.

Also, I guess the DBZ char's could stop genjutsu by fluctuating their ki to make it impossible for the caster to manipulate them(similar to the release used against genjutsu), but that's still part of their ki sense, because they don't control their ki physically. However, they could also do it simply because they have a sixth sense for ki, which simply can't be controlled, and which they have displayed the ability to fight with alone.

Originally posted by Quincy
How does prime counter all of the illusionary magic techniques in these verses?

To put it simply, he's immune to magic.

For illusions though, he pretty much can't counter them. He can regenerate from most of them though, other than Infinite Tsukiyomi from Naruto.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Yes. If Buu can generate the ki to destroy every dimension, then he can generate the ki to survive that level of destruction. That's why he had up a barrier. Also, Prime didn't survive dimensions crashing into his own. He survived being caught in between dimensions. Something Buu definitely could, considering he doesn't need a power source like Prime does, he can regenerate from less than subatomic particles, and he doesn't need oxygen.
If you believe he has the Ki to destroy every dimension, the you do not understand what happened at all.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
What words? Prime didn't say anything while being flown through Rao. He was just screaming as his flesh melted away.

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Also, are you forgetting the speed that they flew through Rao at? They were flying hundreds of thousands of times the speed of light. They were in contact with Rao for about a millionth of a second. The heat from Rao wasn't even what damaged Prime the most, it was the red solar radiation. They didn't experience even near the full heat of the star. It's like when you wave your hand over a flame, and you're hand moves so fast you don't even feel it.

No, that's not enough proof against. lol, you literally just pointed out one example of a dozen, and even admitted Vegeta was also weakened there. That was, in fact, probably the MOST uneven example, considering Vegeta was able to fight on par with Kaioken X3 Goku. In case you forgot, Goku was really weakened too. Either way, if someone is stronger, it's obviously proven that they can hit someone with the full brunt of a blast. Another good example is how Frieza, who was even stronger than Kaioken X20 Goku had to make another blast of his own just to stop Goku's kamehameha, and couldn't just fly away from it. Again, the only times that's ever happened was when the character waving it off was much stronger than the character shooting it, or they had a barrier up. Hell, Prime couldn't shrug off the Monarch's quantum blasts, that are around as strong as Buu tier blast, and that was with several buff's he doesn't have here. Goku and co have blasts stronger than he could block/redirect, and faster than he could fly away from without a warning. He can't fight and dodge at speeds nearly as high as Goku and co, even though his flight speed is comparable to Bills/Whiss.

Idk about the dub, but in the jap version, Cell says, "Hm, a meteor this size would have the entire planet thanking me for their lives. I think I'll give them a good show instead.". And even assuming it to be a simple life-wiping meteor, doing so to several continents, and not just one super continent like the dino-one, it would have to be approximately 15, or even more, km in diameter. And btw, the dinosaur killing meteor that made the Chicxulub crater in Mexico was "AT LEAST 10 km(6mi) in diameter.", not five. Anyway, a meteor that size would yield around 200 million megatons. Not just that, but Cell stopped that effortlessly with one hand. Now, taking average meteor speed into consideration, the lack of deceleration because of the atmosphere, since Cell was in space with it, that size meteor would yield, to Cell's hand, around 215 million megatons. Now, in terms of sheer kinetic force, that equals around 215,000,000,000,000, or 215 trillion tons or force. That means Cell achieved an effortless lifting feat of 415 trillion tons, with not as much trouble as he had deflecting Goku's many ki blasts. Also, the blasts in question were planet level plus, making Cell's physical strength peak at a measured level much higher than even Superboy Primes, since he had shrugged of star-busting attacks. He even had a solar system busting kamehameha wave.

No, Goku had to concentrate a second or two because he didn't know where New Namek was, but he was still able to sense the tiny power level of the Namekians. Also, it depends on the power level he's trying to warp to. Goku can't warp to something if he can't feel it's ki. However, even without trying to feel it, Goku's SSJ3 power in the Buu saga was felt from across the entire universe, and that was without Gohan or the Kai's even using ki sense. Goku has also shown no trouble with distance in the entire series. The only time IT hasn't worked was when he needed to warp across galaxies, in a brief fraction of a second with no concentration, while about to be vaporized, in a high-stress situation. Otherwise, he can warp any distance, as proven by him constantly warping back and forth between life and death itself. King Kai just had to point the direction of Namek out to him, and what kind of ki to look for.

Kaguya still warped to other planets.

Goku fought Bills in outer space. Also, when did Broly need oxygen? In fact, he stayed frozen under ice for years with no oxygen, and stayed conscious the whole time. He flew his father and him across galaxies as an infant with no oxygen. He even told his father he would survive if a comet slammed into him and the planet without a ship. Also, again, Vegeta and other Saiyan elites have demonstrated traveling in space without oxygen dozens of times.

All the characters could just grab onto Goku's body, and he would warp them after Cell warped Prime to the red sun. Or before, I guess. It doesn't really matter.

If they didn't have enough time to feel the heat, then they didn't have enough time to absorb the red radiation. How much radiation would they have taken in in a millionth of a second?

...I pointed out every single example in DBZ in that very paragraph. Broly and Cooler prove that it /can/ work on opponents drastically weakened/weaker. Buu proves that at even levels you can stalemate post impact. Vegeta proves that even if the blast is above your own power, you can still get yourself off of the blast. And he managed to do so a good deal of time before leaving the atmosphere. But SBP will remain stuck in the blast for a far greater distances because..? If you could tell me why Vegeta rolling off a blast >himself doesnt count, you'll have a leg to stand on.

Lifewiping is all we could possibly give it based on everything we know. The only way it can be argued higher is if its speed (nope) or mass can be proven to be at the necessary level. Mmm no. Just take a quick read of the wiki page on effects. A meteor of equal size would have near enough the same effect now as it did then as far as life is concerned. Actually less, as several pages say that a 1km meteor is able to lifewipe. I think we've found our minimum. Also thats some obvious calc inflating and most of it is false. First of all, it was not moving that fast. At all. You can watch the vid so I won't need to explain this further. It may have picked up speed getting closer to Earths gravity, but not at that point. So lets see..

A 1km rock would weigh 1.106e12 kg as per stardestroyer.net.
It took 0.2s for it to cover the ~1m before Cell, the meteor was moving at 5m/s
= 1.3825e13 Joules = 3.304 kilotons needed to stop the movement of this rock

Sorry. Its still Town level strength, which is impressive for DBZ.

And in case you dislike this. Even your own figures don't measure up. 215 mil Mt = 9e23 Joules which is 200 millionth of Earth planet busting force of 2e32 Joules.


Exactly, his sensing limits are so far below Kai's that he had to be guided to pinpoint a planet of noticeable, familiar Ki. Do you even know if his sensing is on that level to suggest any of this? He has stated in the manga and anime that he has a distance limit, so adding that to an unfamiliar energy source lightyears away. And before asking how he managed to get to New Namek, he only did so from King Kai's planet just as he had to return back there before getting to Earth

Was this stated? Because if its dimension hopping, its not taking them to actual locations in space.

Technically given their distance from Earth their would be air, if extremely thin beyond human surviving conditions. As said, in every media its flat out stated they cannot survive in space.

It was more for the ridiculous imagery if I'm honest..

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Whenever J'onnz has done something as impressive as Itachi or Shisui's genjutsu's, it has been with prep, and/or research. Itachi and Shisui are the best genjutsu users in Naruto, their genjutsu's haven't been replicated, especially not Shisui's. Itachi's have been struggled against, but the only person who's ever beat them was Sasuke, and only because Itachi specifically allowed him to.

Also, I guess the DBZ char's could stop genjutsu by fluctuating their ki to make it impossible for the caster to manipulate them(similar to the release used against genjutsu), but that's still part of their ki sense, because they don't control their ki physically. However, they could also do it simply because they have a sixth sense for ki, which simply can't be controlled, and which they have displayed the ability to fight with alone. So every time J'onn has messed with anyones mind, its been with prep etc? All the time? Also, what about factoring in those with mental resistance that he has still effected? Thats something Naruto lacks.

Thats the point. The defense was that them using a ki attack would work as a scrambler and break it. Nothing else was supported in threads, so if they have an option, thats it.

Originally posted by BloodRain
If you believe he has the Ki to destroy every dimension, the you do not understand what happened at all.



If they didn't have enough time to feel the heat, then they didn't have enough time to absorb the red radiation. How much radiation would they have taken in in a millionth of a second?

...I pointed out every single example in DBZ in that very paragraph. Broly and Cooler prove that it /can/ work on opponents drastically weakened/weaker. Buu proves that at even levels you can stalemate post impact. Vegeta proves that even if the blast is above your own power, you can still get yourself off of the blast. And he managed to do so a good deal of time before leaving the atmosphere. But SBP will remain stuck in the blast for a far greater distances because..? If you could tell me why Vegeta rolling off a blast >himself doesnt count, you'll have a leg to stand on.

Lifewiping is all we could possibly give it based on everything we know. The only way it can be argued higher is if its speed (nope) or mass can be proven to be at the necessary level. Mmm no. Just take a quick read of the wiki page on effects. A meteor of equal size would have near enough the same effect now as it did then as far as life is concerned. Actually less, as several pages say that a 1km meteor is able to lifewipe. I think we've found our minimum. Also thats some obvious calc inflating and most of it is false. First of all, it was not moving that fast. At all. You can watch the vid so I won't need to explain this further. It may have picked up speed getting closer to Earths gravity, but not at that point. So lets see..

A 1km rock would weigh 1.106e12 kg as per stardestroyer.net.
It took 0.2s for it to cover the ~1m before Cell, the meteor was moving at 5m/s
= 1.3825e13 Joules = 3.304 kilotons needed to stop the movement of this rock

Sorry. Its still Town level strength, which is impressive for DBZ.

And in case you dislike this. Even your own figures don't measure up. 215 mil Mt = 9e23 Joules which is 200 millionth of Earth planet busting force of 2e32 Joules.


Exactly, his sensing limits are so far below Kai's that he had to be guided to pinpoint a planet of noticeable, familiar Ki. Do you even know if his sensing is on that level to suggest any of this? He has stated in the manga and anime that he has a distance limit, so adding that to an unfamiliar energy source lightyears away. And before asking how he managed to get to New Namek, he only did so from King Kai's planet just as he had to return back there before getting to Earth

Was this stated? Because if its dimension hopping, its not taking them to actual locations in space.

Technically given their distance from Earth their would be air, if extremely thin beyond human surviving conditions. As said, in every media its flat out stated they cannot survive in space.

It was more for the ridiculous imagery if I'm honest..

So every time J'onn has messed with anyones mind, its been with prep etc? All the time? Also, what about factoring in those with mental resistance that he has still effected? Thats something Naruto lacks.

Thats the point. The defense was that them using a ki attack would work as a scrambler and break it. Nothing else was supported in threads, so if they have an option, thats it.

He clearly did, if that's the danger he posed. Whether or not it was by a domino effect, just like Prime's.

Not very much, which is why Prime could still use heat vision afterword, and muster the strength the beat Kal-L to death, until Superman of Earth 1 put his happy ass down for the count. However, it was still enough to weaken him to the point where Hal Jordan could hold him alone, whereas he previously flew through the combined 300 mile thick wall of willpower from the entire Green lantern corps.

Prime will stay in the blast, because he did so against weaker ones from Monarch, and that was with the green lantern corp energy, quantum power, and several other buffs he doesn't have here. What don't you get about this?

So your entire argument is that the meteor was smaller, because life-wiping could be due to ash clouds? Are you forgetting about the Dragon Balls? If the Z-fighters saw an ash cloud in the sky, they'd wish it away and it'd be done. However, if an asteroid they didn't know about, because rocks don't have ki, collided with Earth, and destroyed all life, they couldn't do anything about it. Cell knew about the Dragon Balls, and STILL said it would life-wipe. So, since we don't know any of the specifics of the meteor, we factor it out to averages, to find the most logical outcome. We can't go putting words in Cell's mouth, like you're trying to.

1km meteor is not even close to a life-wipe. You're high.

Again, a meteor destroying all life on all separate continents would include sea-life, single-celled organisms, etc. That means it would have to be ON AVERAGE, 15 or even more km. And that's speaking conservatively, considering the Chixaclub meteor was 10 km, and the ash cloud was what killed the dinosaurs, not the initial impact. In fact, a more accurate estimate of ABSOLUTE life-wiping, would be around 20-25 km, at the average speed of meteors, 105,000 mph. That would yield approximately 450 million megatons.

If you wanna just assume it was planet busting, and not simply life-wiping, I'm fine with that. They are two completely different things, you know. Makes sense though, since Cell has deflected planet busters before. That would yield about 110 quadrillion megatons, or around 110,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, or 110 sextillion tons, making Cell millions of times physically stronger than PC Supe's, or Superboy Prime.

So your argument here is that King Kai's planet is closer to Namek than Earth? That would make it over half as far from Earth as New Namek, still making Goku's limit undefined galaxies away. Again though, if he can sense the ki, he can warp to it. King Kai pointed Namek out to him easily. Also, King Kai can use IT, in case you forgot...

They "dimensions" she warped them to were all different planets, regardless if they were also actually different dimensions as well. However, the kage also managed to reverse summon them back to the real world, proving it WAS a matter of distance.

That's not true. In fact, Goku actually fell through the atmosphere when Bills knocked him out, before going SSJG and absorbing his attack. That proves they were outside of the atmosphere. Also, just want to point out that Bardock, Broly and Vegeta breathing in space were all supported by the Daizenshuu.

Yeah, I know.

Um, no. But when he has done something as impressive as implanting memories, or destroying someones mind, it has been against essentially regular people, or with prep. Also, there are Naruto characters with mental blocks. They are made by genjutsu users, like the one on Pain's summoning body. Or the one Itachi used to make Sasuke shoot ammy at Tobi.

But the point is that the only way they could use a ki attack, is WITH their ki sense. That's because their other senses are being controlled.

Sasuke solos all of them with ganjutsu.

You could add Beerus, Whis and SSJGSSJG Goku and Prime would still stomp.

Prime is simply too fast. Changing the center of the Universe with his bare hands required a strength/speed/durability combination that is PC level. If we take him by his lowest showings and his biggest PIS moment the team would stand indeed a chance. If we go by forum rules and use him to the best of his abilities he just kills most chars here withing the first second.

Goku doesn't even power up for this fight. Goku stomps. Prime is good but Goku is far better.

Yeah Goku should be able to beat Prime too at this point.

Are we including Super or just EoZ?

If we are, Vegeta solos.

Yeah, I made this thread before the DBS phuckery. Goku or Vegeta one-shot Prime at this point.

Lol, Prime actually destroyed a Universe, unlike Beerus and Goku. He also survived an Universal explosion point blank, tanked Antimatter with ease, hurt the AM, changed the center of the Universe with his bare hands, strength and speed. He wins.

Their blows were threatening the universe, and Goku is ~15 times stronger or more now than he was then.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Their blows were threatening the universe, and Goku is ~15 times stronger or more now than he was then.

No, you mean the blows that send a shockwave that gained momentum the longer it traveled. Beerus and Goku didn't donut by themselves.

-Where as Prime took a Universal blast to the face
- Changed the center of the Universe casually
-Took hits from a weapon forged in Heaven from an Angel
-Survived Anti Matter
-flew through multiple red Suns
-Beat the Superman family casually while being weakened

The physics used to explain the Earth's survival being stupid doesn't mean that Beerus and Goku are in any less capacity universe-threatening beings.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
The physics used to explain the Earth's survival being stupid doesn't mean that Beerus and Goku are in any less capacity universe-threatening beings.

Can Goku and Beerus casually destroys the Earth single handedly? Yes of course they can. No more proof is needed.

But, the second we start saying there Universe destroyers by ignoring context, then somethings wrong.

Fact of the matter is, Goku's and Beerus punches needed to gained momentum via a wave to become Universal. The two of them didn't just punch and the Universe started collapsing. There Universal threat took both time and extennal forces to achieved that level.

Feats like that shouldn't be worried about too much either to be honest. It's a great feat for a feat competition, something that was much needed for DB characters, but it's high end just like the big hitter's feats are.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Feats like that shouldn't be worried about too much either to be honest. It's a great feat for a feat competition, something that was much needed for DB characters, but it's high end just like the big hitter's feats are.

Actually it should be worried about when you have certain posters coming on here and claiming that both Beerus and Goku are Universe busters.

Originally posted by SquallX
Can Goku and Beerus casually destroys the Earth single handedly? Yes of course they can. No more proof is needed.

But, the second we start saying there Universe destroyers by ignoring context, then somethings wrong.

Fact of the matter is, Goku's and Beerus punches needed to gained momentum via a wave to become Universal. The two of them didn't just punch and the Universe started collapsing. There Universal threat took both time and extennal forces to achieved that level.

Cry a river. They have universal strength. Prime gets killed here. The guy was having problems with Superboy and Goku would one punch kill Superboy. Get out of your feelings.

Originally posted by SquallX
Actually it should be worried about when you have certain posters coming on here and claiming that both Beerus and Goku are Universe busters.

Why aren't they?

Originally posted by SquallX
Actually it should be worried about when you have certain posters coming on here and claiming that both Beerus and Goku are Universe busters.

Well, considering Beerus was only using a whopping 5% of his power tops, I'm willing to bet he doesn't exactly need Goku's help.

And he's been stated to be capable of destroying the universe himself by the Kai's.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, considering Beerus was only using a whopping 5% of his power tops, I'm willing to bet he doesn't exactly need Goku's help.

And he's been stated to be capable of destroying the universe himself by the Kai's.

Pretty sure he was using close to 70% of hi powers, not 5.

Just because a third party said something without any evidence, doesn't mean it's true

3rd parties have claimed Bruce to be the greatest detective on Earth, we ire as hell knows it isn't true.

As for you carver, be man enough and actually debate against me in a Prime vs Beerus thread then.

Originally posted by SquallX
Actually it should be worried about when you have certain posters coming on here and claiming that both Beerus and Goku are Universe busters.

That's why I say it'd probably be better not worry about it 😅 but I know what you mean

Originally posted by SquallX
Pretty sure he was using close to 70% of hi powers, not 5.

Just because a third party said something without any evidence, doesn't mean it's true.

Good thing that's not the case here. Goku as of the RoF arc already transcended his BoG PL, and he's trained against Vegeta for three straight years following that. Now he's learned to multiply that power by a factor of 10.

And he's still no match for the Gods of Destruction. 5%, and that's assuming Goku is somewhat close to Beerus currently. Could very well be less.

That doesn't make any ****ing sense.

Well, I mean, welcome to dbs man.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Lol, Prime actually destroyed a Universe Wait, when?

You're not referring to when he ripped open Monarch's armour, are you?

If Superboy prime is comparable to Superman Prime, this is a stomp.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Good thing that's not the case here. Goku as of the RoF arc already transcended his BoG PL, and he's trained against Vegeta for three straight years following that. Now he's learned to multiply that power by a factor of 10.

And he's still no match for the Gods of Destruction. 5%, and that's assuming Goku is somewhat close to Beerus currently. Could very well be less.

Are you talking about that fight with Beerus in the Momoka suit? If so, I thought the hardcore fans called that episode filler.

Wowwww spite thread...Superboy Prime gets messed up.

Large list of Super characters that would do so.

Originally posted by SquallX
Are you talking about that fight with Beerus in the Momoka suit? If so, I thought the hardcore fans called that episode filler.

I'm not a hardcore fan by any means, and you can't exactly call the source material filler just because it's goofy...

Besides, I wasn't even referring to that, although it does support my point. I was referring to the fight in Battle of the Gods.

As senseless as it may be, in BoG, SSJG wasn't that much stronger than post-God SSJ; both Beerus and Goku agreed that there wasn't a noticeable drop in power after the timer ran out, and the fight continued to proceed at a universe-threatening level.

Then in the months preceding RoF, Goku continues to train with Whis and makes significant gains in controlling his godly power, unlocking SSJB; an evolution that far surpassed his SSJ state, and was said more than once to be superior to the unstable SSJG.

In other words, SSB>SSG>/=SSJ was established just in the movies and adaptations. Then, Goku and Vegeta trained for three years in the hyperbolic time chamber; while Vegeta initially believed that they wouldn't see gains, after the fact he said that they definitely became stronger. Post-ROSAT SSB > SSB > SSG.

Now, Goku has recently revealed that because of his training with Whis and the controlled nature of SSB, he can perform Kaio-Ken simultaneously with the transformation. Since he can ramp up the multiplier to x10, ridiculous as it sounds, he can reach a level now where he's capable of completely and utterly stomping an ordinary SSB.

In other words...

SSB KKx10 >>> SSB KKx2 >> post-ROSAT SSB > SSB > SSG

Goku as he is now would absolutely wreck his BoG self with ease, and he's still weaker than Beerus and Champa. Which means that in their battle, Beerus was definitely still holding back in a massive way.

Originally posted by SquallX
Can Goku and Beerus casually destroys the Earth single handedly? Yes of course they can. No more proof is needed.

But, the second we start saying there Universe destroyers by ignoring context, then somethings wrong.

Fact of the matter is, Goku's and Beerus punches needed to gained momentum via a wave to become Universal. The two of them didn't just punch and the Universe started collapsing. There Universal threat took both time and extennal forces to achieved that level.

You might as well be saying, "Well if they needed a ki blast to blow up the universe, then they clearly couldn't destroy the universe, since it would take time for the explosion to destroy the universe". You're not making any sense. If Goku and Beerus caused pressure waves from the sheer force of their punches, which could destroy the universe, then THEY CAN DESTROY THE UNIVERSE WITH A PUNCH. How are you not getting this?

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Lol, Prime actually destroyed a Universe, unlike Beerus and Goku. He also survived an Universal explosion point blank, tanked Antimatter with ease, hurt the AM, changed the center of the Universe with his bare hands, strength and speed. He wins.

1. No he didn't. He ripped open the Monarch's armor, and just barely managed to survive, thanks the quantum energies he absorbed from the Guardian of Oa.

2. Prime did NOT "tank antimatter with ease". He survived a blast from a SEVERELY weakened and battered anti-monitor, which was so devastating that even Kal-L thought Prime should have died.

3. Uh, yeah, I guess he hurt the anti-monitor. But you're stretching that feat pretty far, considering the anti-monitor had been weakened from literally fighting against every superhero on Earth.

4. He only changed the center of the universe by moving planets around. Not impressive at all, compared to nearly busting the universe with a punch.

5. Speed, strength, durability, destructive capacity, all of them go to the side of DBS. Even the anti-monitor couldn't take down Goku or Beerus anymore.

Freeze breath ftw.

DBZ has zero elemental resistance. Vegeta can't even handle a little heat, and cold is a well known weakness for Goku (Re-affirmed with Goten/Trunks freezing.)

Originally posted by cdtm
Freeze breath ftw.

DBZ has zero elemental resistance. Vegeta can't even handle a little heat, and cold is a well known weakness for Goku (Re-affirmed with Goten/Trunks freezing.)

Omni King solos Prime and everyone else on the battle field

Though Beerus, Whis, Champa, Vados, Hit, Goku, Vegeta, etc could also do the job.

Teen Titans kicked his overrated ass, lol.