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* For the sake of the fight Malak gets his Star Forge amp, though the setting is neutral.
Bane is as seen in DoE.

Who wins?

Bane. TBH Malak doesn't even have the strength feats to block a single one of Bane's attacks.

Bane takes this one.

Should be a good fight.

Bane.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Should be a good fight.

No.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Should be a good fight.

Kindly elaborate.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Kindly elaborate.
You don't think Malak, in his most well-prepared form, should offer significant challenge to Bane and/or have a chance to defeat him?

People mistakenly evaluate Malak from his poor character development in the comics but he had significantly grown in power and experience since then. As of KoTOR, Malak became one of the most powerful Sith Lords in the galaxy.

I'm not a Bane fanboy like Dmb or Neph, but Malak's not particularly high on my list either.

I'm willing to be convinced.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm not a Bane fanboy like Dmb or Neph, but Malak's not particularly high on my list either.

I'm willing to be convinced.
Malak defeated Bastilla Shan (officially a powerful Jedi) and forced Carth and Revan to flee from Leviathan. The Strike Team had earlier cut a swath through the defenses of the cruiser and killed its chief.

Seems very impressive to me.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malak defeated Bastilla Shan (officially a powerful Jedi) and forced Carth and Revan to retreat from Leviathan. Seems very impressive to me.

I'm not really impressed.

That doesn't necessarily put him on par with Bane or any other established Sith Lord for that matter. Any Sith Lord worth their salt would snap Carth's neck with a negligent gesture.

I can guarantee you Dmb and Neph will mention all of the "powerful" opponents Bane has beaten or demolished.

I'm still up in the air.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm not really impressed.

That doesn't necessarily put him on par with Bane or any other established Sith Lord for that matter. Any Sith Lord worth their salt would snap Carth's neck with a negligent gesture.

I can guarantee you Dmb and Neph will mention all of the "powerful" opponents Bane has beaten or demolished.

I'm still up in the air.
Of-course, Carth is defenseless against Force powers but he was among the most competent officers of the Republic. The fact that he didn't die during the clash against Malak bodes well for his skills rather then the Sith Lord lacking in power.

Malak also have command of advanced Sith powers such as Force Drain and Force Lightning. He may have lot of skills holistically. More importantly, he had been successfully leading a Sith Empire which is really telling about his competence and power in general. It is safe to assert that Bane haven't been tested on level of Malak.

Furthermore, any Jedi who managed to approach Malak's position on Star Forge, ended up dead barring Revan.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Of-course, Carth is defenseless against Force powers but he was among the most competent officers of the Republic. The fact that he didn't die during the clash against Malak bodes well for his skills rather then the Sith Lord lacking in power.

Debatable. I doubt you'd be willing to extend the same consideration towards Jango Fett or Pre Vizsla or a Forceless warrior from some other era. I'm not sure why I should be impressed.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malak also have command of advanced Sith powers such as Force Drain and Force Lightning.

Alas for EU apologists, Force lightning is a fairly pedestrian Force power that no-name Sith and even dark Jedi can conjure at will. Force drain, I grant you, is more esoteric but Bane is sufficiently skilled with that technique as well. I still see no reason to favor Malak necessarily in this regard.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He may have lot of skills holistically. More importantly, he had been leading a Sith Empire which is really telling about his competence and power in general. It is safe to assert that Bane haven't been tested on level of Malak.

And again, I doubt you'd be willing to extend this same consideration to someone like Darth Krayt, who also commanded a Sith empire and should be regarded with similar reverence by you. Bane was the mightiest of a battle-hardened Sith empire as well. You're asking for concessions to be made when you yourself seem to be unwilling to make them.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Furthermore, any Jedi who managed to approach his position on Star Forge, ended up dead barring Revan.

All this proves is that Malak is powerful and that he's capable of cutting down no-name Jedi, neither of which I've denied. But power is relative. Bane is powerful as well, until you put him next to someone like Sidious.

I'm still willing to be convinced, but I think you'll need to strengthen your argument a bit more.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
But power is relative. Bane is powerful as well, until you put him next to someone like Sidious. Neph be like

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4317832-nope.gif

Originally posted by ILS
Neph be like

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4317832-nope.gif

Meh. Sidious is better than Bane on all fronts. He's stronger, faster, more skilled, smarter, more successful, more important, and quite probably a more talented lover.

All of this has been consistently demonstrated throughout the source material. Bane's good, don't get me wrong. But Sidious is the culmination of Bane's order and is much better.

Hmm well let's see. Bane is a middle aged broseph in his prime whilst Sidious is an old ass pickle. Bane deflecting rain is the fastest speed feat in the mythos because of that one guys fan calc. Bane defeated Kas'im who knows all lightsaber fighting styles while Sidious lost to Windu who only knows one. Bane is obviously smarter since he thought of the RoT while Sidious just ran with the idea like a sheep. Bane is more important because he's the Sith'ari while Sidious is just a powerful Force user. Although yes I can agree that the slippery old codger may be better in the bedroom.

Why is Legend wasting his time trying to persuade a confirmed troll like Tempest?

Originally posted by ILS
Hmm well let's see. Bane is a middle aged broseph in his prime whilst Sidious is an old ass pickle. Bane deflecting rain is the fastest speed feat in the mythos because of that one guys fan calc. Bane defeated Kas'im who knows all lightsaber fighting styles while Sidious lost to Windu who only knows one. Bane is obviously smarter since he thought of the RoT while Sidious just ran with the idea like a sheep. Bane is more important because he's the Sith'ari while Sidious is just a powerful Force user. Although yes I can agree that the slippery old codger may be better in the bedroom.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Debatable. I doubt you'd be willing to extend the same consideration towards Jango Fett or Pre Vizsla or a Forceless warrior from some other era. I'm not sure why I should be impressed.
These individuals do not fight Jedi and/or Sith in direct manner, they rely on impressive gadgets and firepower to contend with Force-user opponents.

I personally believe that even a buffed-up and heavily armed individual shouldn't pose a threat to a well-trained Force-user, not a Sith Lord at least, but this is Star Wars and logic is not its strong forte.

So we are left to hold Carth in the same regard as we do with Jango and other incredibly competent combatants amongst the normal folk.

---

And you think that these normal combatants are impressive? Explore Grand Champion of SWTOR for a change. This guy pulled off shit that many Jedi won't. Heck, he might even take Count Dooku to the curb, and I am not kidding.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Alas for EU apologists, Force lightning is a fairly pedestrian Force power that no-name Sith and even dark Jedi can conjure at will. Force drain, I grant you, is more esoteric but Bane is sufficiently skilled with that technique as well. I still see no reason to favor Malak necessarily in this regard.
I don't recall any no-name Sith who can conjure Force Lightning at will. And even if many Sith became practitioners of this Force power, they won't be as proficient in its use as some of the greatest of the Sith are expected to be.

The ruling Dark Lord of the Sith is a master of the Dark Side of the Force. (Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide)

Yes, Bane have command of these powers as well. But he utilized Force Drain (Death Field variant) only once by drawing on the power of a nexus. Their is no other demonstration that I am aware of and it remains to be seen if Bane can use Force Drain in normal situations.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
And again, I doubt you'd be willing to extend this same consideration to someone like Darth Krayt, who also commanded a Sith empire and should be regarded with similar reverence by you. Bane was the mightiest of a battle-hardened Sith empire as well. You're asking for concessions to be made when you yourself seem to be unwilling to make them.
I hold Krayt in very high regard actually. He is among the greatest Sith to have ever existed much like Malak.

As for the Brotherhood, it really lacked in competence in comparison to ancients. When Bane began to learn about the ancients, he unsurprisingly began to notice the shortcomings of the Brotherhood and it doesn't surprises me that he had potential to be mightier then any Brotherhood Sith after acquiring ancient knowledge of the dark arts from Revan's holocron. He became an outlier in his era.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
All this proves is that Malak is powerful and that he's capable of cutting down no-name Jedi, neither of which I've denied. But power is relative. Bane is powerful as well, until you put him next to someone like Sidious.
Malak have shown more then capable of defeating no-name Jedi (reminder: Bastilla Shan). Not just the Jedi, a powerful Sith Empire would test him in ways unlike even the Jedi since their is lot of internal strife in a Sith Empire.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm still willing to be convinced, but I think you'll need to strengthen your argument a bit more.
Don't get me wrong, Bane have impressive showings and is one of the best explored Lords of the mythos. However, most of his battles have circumstances attached to them if carefully observed. The only powerful opponent he managed to defeat is Kas'im and this too after collapsing the structure on the latter. It was a very tough battle though.

Bane's next powerful opponent was Zannah and we know how that fight ended.

Bane benefits from ample exploration in the literature while Malak mostly sits on the logic train.

Anyways, I am not going to insist that (only) Malak takes this. I am keeping an open mind. But I do believe that Malak managed to thrive in more challenging environment then Bane.

Legend's TOR bias is cringe worthy. The irony in his comments make me guffaw regularly. He can twist shit to make TOR characters look more impressive and then turn around and shit on characters from other eras with similar showings.

Kol Skywalker shitting on a mountain of sith and stormtroopers not being as impressive as Darach's one fight scene because "Kol was in a comic book so it's hard to tell how good he actually is" is, quite frankly, lolworthy.

This was goofy. The rest is sound, if not absolute. As long as you apply the same standard with both parties (Bane and Malak), you might have a good case here.

I'll leave the rest to Dmb, Neph, or Neb. It'll be interesting to watch. You've piqued my interest.

I don't see the issue. Carth shot at Malak who easy blocked everything and Force-pwned him just like you guys say should happen when a muggle fights a force user. :T

You're to do battle with SWL on this subject at your earliest convenienceright now.

I don't see why this subject is contentious enough to cause conflict.

It's not contentious. I would be interested in the debate, though, since I'm quite honestly open to either outcome.

Oh, you meant on Malak vs Bane. I thought you meant the Carth thing.

Well given that Malak got shat on by Revan over and over and over again even in this incarnation and after Revan had gone through an army and given that Bane is superior to Kotor Revan by quite a bit, I'm fairly certain no one is contesting that Bane can snap Malaks head off at least once. Legend thinking Malak can give a good fight before perishing horribly isn't notable enough for a debate. I disagree but whatever.

Although I laughed when he brought up lighting and drain, considering Bane's application of both abilities far exceeds Malak's meager attempts.

Originally posted by Trocity
Legend's TOR bias is cringe worthy. The irony in his comments make me guffaw regularly. He can twist shit to make TOR characters look more impressive and then turn around and shit on characters from other eras with similar showings.

Kol Skywalker shitting on a mountain of sith and stormtroopers not being as impressive as Darach's one fight scene because "Kol was in a comic book so it's hard to tell how good he actually is" is, quite frankly, lolworthy.
I find your lack of faith disturbing. Also, where am I wrong in my assertions here? Kindly prove me wrong if I am.

Also, what makes you think that Darach cannot smoke many no-name Sith and stormtroopers? As for Kol, I simply stated that not enough is known about him to consider in versus scenarios against detailed characters.

Originally posted by ILS
Bane deflecting rain is the fastest speed feat in the mythos because of that one guys fan calc.

There was nothing wrong with Zampano's calculation and referring to it as a fan calculation does nothing to invalidate it, but it's nice to see you're still sore over the crushing defeat you suffered at the hands of my padawan.

Also, you should argue for Bane more often Temp, it suits you. and pleases me most greatly.

Originally posted by flirtatious padawan learner
Although I laughed when he brought up lighting and drain, considering Bane's application of both abilities far exceeds Malak's meager attempts.

Is that a typo and did you mean to say lightning and rain, because Bane is too fast for both.

*Lightning.

SF Malak is borderline relativistic by feats. He blitzes.

Malak

Bane's force feats aren't powerful to do anything to him, and his lightning can be dodged or deflected.

Beating Revan is superior to any feat he's ever done

Originally posted by Nephthys
*Lightning.

Wow, I didn't see that you had actually indeed made a typo there, I was referring to where you said drain and wanted to slip in Bane's godly rain feat.

Originally posted by ares834
SF Malak is borderline relativistic by feats. He blitzes.

what??

Idiots on the Naruto forums calculated that based on the ships and their weaponsfire outside the window in the Malak fight, the whole thing was taking place at near relativistic speeds.

Lol @ making fun of them when you put Bane on Sidious's level and wank his rain feat

Stop talking to me.

Originally posted by appletonia
There was nothing wrong with Zampano's calculation and referring to it as a fan calculation does nothing to invalidate it, but it's nice to see you're still sore over the crushing defeat you suffered at the hands of my padawan.

Also, you should argue for Bane more often Temp, it suits you. and pleases me most greatly.

IIRC you lost to Tempest pretty badly in that Kun vs Krayt thread a while back. But more to the point Bane dies in this fight