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The two duke it out on a neutral ground.

Both are in their prime.

For the sake of a fight, let's assume Vitiate gets his amp feats BUT no prep time is given to the either fighter.

Who wins?

Luke. Vitiate makes him really work for it though.

Luke could handle Vitiate even if he has some prep. And if Vitiate has too much prep, Luke will simply pass on the confrontation and come back later.

Luke curbstomps him

Originally posted by Nephthys
Luke. Vitiate makes him really work for it though.

All-out Luke stomps him.

Luke with some difficulty.

Emperor bombards Luke with lightning, weakening his defenses, and then overwhelms him with sorcery. /thread.

"You are mine. Weapon. Slave. Servant. And you will obey." Emperor's plan afterwards.

Emperor bombards Luke with lightning. Luke catches it with either tutaminis or on his lightsaber, noting Sidious did it better.

When Vitiate goes into Sorcery, Luke speed blitzes.

I actually lol'd at Vitiate overwhelming Luke.

Originally posted by Trocity
I actually lol'd at Vitiate overwhelming Luke.
Yeah, I also thought it was a joke... And a good one at that

People, with little knowledge of Luke, trying to hype him here. Interesting.

When everybody disagrees with you, it's time to reevaluate your own opinion.

You haven't even proved Vitiate's a threat to Sidious yet.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
When everybody disagrees with you, it's time to reevaluate your own opinion.

You haven't even proved Vitiate's a threat to Sidious yet.
Have you not been reading this thread?

Facts and rationality are important for me, not what everybody here thinks.

Everybody may think that Earth is flat, I would stick with the facts. Thank you.

This is a joke thread, right?

Well... yeah. We all know that Luke crushes Vitiate. But SWL comedy is gold, always.

Originally posted by Stigma
Well... yeah. We all know that Luke crushes Vitiate. But SWL comedy is gold, always.
So well-reasoned. I wonder why you had been hiding such display of intellect earlier.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So well-reasoned. I wonder why you had been hiding such display of intellect earlier.
Not to hurt your feelings, obviously

Either way what is your hope to accomplish here? No one is convinced, I believe, that Vitiate can take down Luke and your thread in EU section only reminded us how badass Luke is.

Originally posted by Stigma
Not to hurt your feelings, obviously

Either way what is your hope to accomplish here? No one is convinced, I believe, that Vitiate can take down Luke and your thread in EU section only reminded us how badass Luke is.
I am not emotional about fiction, just spending time.

People will believe what they want to believe and they do not necessarily have realistic beliefs.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am not emotional about fiction, just spending time.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
People will believe what they want to believe and they do not necessarily have realistic beliefs.
Agreed

I assume your self-awarness and rationality enables you to see it also applies to your views, no?

Originally posted by Stigma



Agreed

I assume your self-awarness and rationality enables you to see it also applies to your views, no?
For a recap:

- Luke and Krayt managed to defeat Abeloth with joint effort and both were equally impressive in this confrontation.

- Luke failed to defeat Lord Nyax on his own, he had help from other Jedi.

- Luke defeated Shimrra with support from Jacen.

- Luke's top feats have been matched by others.

I don't really get the assumption that Luke is infallible in versus scenarios. Noted that he outdueled Sidious once but this is it.

I am not sure how so many got the idea that Luke is the most powerful Force-user or is infallible. I assume poor judgment on their part.

My views are more realistic then norm here.

Um, I don't think anyone argues that Luke is infallible, but that he has what it takes to win. As it happens he can beat virtually anyone, so if that irritates you it's rather an emotional problem you profess to be detached from.

As to your examples, most of these are still superior to Vitiate's showings by far. Luke is also vastly more skilled as a duelist, much faster, has more powerful TK and, of course, unmatched raw power.

Originally posted by Stigma
Um, I don't think anyone argues that Luke is infallible, but that he has what it takes to win. As it happens he can beat virtually anyone, so if that irritates you it's rather an emotional problem you profess to be detached from.
So when does Luke falls in a versus debate? Any count?

Official information contradicts your claim that Luke can beat virtually anyone. If this was the case, he would have. But he didn't.

Again, I am not emotional about fiction. I am simply being rational.

Should I accuse you of being emotional about this matter? Kindly refrain from ad-honims.

Originally posted by Stigma
As to your examples, most of these are still superior to Vitiate's showings by far. Luke is also vastly more skilled as a duelist, much faster, has more powerful TK and, of course, unmatched raw power.
This is subjective argument. I don't see how Luke comes off very impressive in these events since he had help from others in tackling the challenges. He didn't soloed all of his challenges.

Yes, Luke is immensely skilled in martial aspects of combat but Emperor could afford to neglect these combat tactics by virtue of his extraordinary power and command of the dark side.

More powerful TK? Emperor collapsed a structure (in sheer essence form) and could perform impressive telekinetic actions without use of gestures such as he; halted Scourge's lightsaber attack without gesture (just like Yoda did to Ventress), and disintegrated a tough droid T3-M4 into countless parts without gesture. Though Emperor isn't much explored in these matters but he comes off as having premium TK ability. Even Emperor's inferiors have very impressive TK feats such as collapsing entire buildings, moving starships, and lot more stuff. You do the math now.

Unmatched raw power? Lord Nyax laughs at you.

In single combat, Emperor overwhelmed entire Strike Teams of powerful Force-users (individuals with feats and hype) without difficulty.

Holistically, Emperor also have grand showings like altering the environment of an entire planet, creating a powerful nexus, draining individuals from lightyear distances, possessing individuals, and influencing thousands of individuals with telepathic abilities across the galaxy.

--

But of-course, Emperor is no match for Luke by virtue of being an ancient. This is your reasoning in brief.

Luke slaughtered like 10,000 Vong warriors.

Even Vitiate supporters are saying Luke wins this, even if they say Vitiate makes him work for it. Legend is literally the only one who thinks otherwise LOL like come on man.

Originally posted by Trocity
Even Vitiate supporters are saying Luke wins this, even if they say Vitiate makes him work for it. Legend is literally the only one who thinks otherwise LOL like come on man.


Vitiate is by no means weak, but he's not in Luke Skywalker's league.

Originally posted by Stigma


Vitiate is by no means weak, but he's not in Luke Skywalker's league.



Even Neph agrees.

True that

Originally posted by The_Tempest


Even Neph agrees.

I said Vitiate would give him a great fight. He's very much in Luke's league.

Granted, Luke's level covers multiple tiers because he's so fvcking inconsistent, but still.

Vitiate cant compare with him lmfao

Originally posted by Drinking It Up
All that Vitiate has going for him is that he isn't Darth Bane.

I've missed stuff like this.

Originally posted by Drinking It Up
All that Vitiate has going for him is that he isn't Darth Bane.

Luke in hiz prime... Man of zteel !

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
- Luke and Krayt managed to defeat Abeloth with joint effort and both were equally impressive in this confrontation.

Luke defeated her alone too.


How is that relevant?


Luke defeated Shimra alone after being exhausted from fight with multiple Slayers. How is that relevant?


True. Caedus and Saba come to mind.


You don't have to. But outdueling Sidious is far from "this is it".


Potential inherited from his father, feats, sources and quality of opponents he faced.


Sure. Lol

Originally posted by Arhael
Luke defeated her alone too.
In a cave setting where he exposed Abeloth's avatar to molten lava, incinerating it in the process.

Though, in another confrontation, Abeloth overwhelmed luke successfully but did not kill him, PIS.

Originally posted by Arhael
How is that relevant?
It is relevant in the context that Luke have limits.

Originally posted by Arhael
Luke defeated Shimra alone after being exhausted from fight with multiple Slayers. How is that relevant?
Should I present details of this encounter? You will be embarrassed.

Originally posted by Arhael
True. Caedus and Saba come to mind.
You forgot about Kyp Durron.

Caedus doesn't have direct showings of Force powers on level of Luke by the way.

Originally posted by Arhael
You don't have to. But outdueling Sidious is far from "this is it".
Luke have his moments, but they are not the only ones. Just like any individual, Luke struggled in his challenges and even lost a few times. He is as fallible as others despite his top showings.

Originally posted by Arhael
Potential inherited from his father, feats, sources and quality of opponents he faced.
In Legends, Anakin have highest midichlorian count "on record." The Jedi and Sith weren't even measured in this manner during ancient times.

Even in Canon, Anakin's potential hype have been reduced by Disney.

Originally posted by Arhael
Sure. Lol
Indeed

And? In another case he cut her down with lightsaber. Should we discard it on the basis he had help from lightsaber? He is obviously not as powerful as Abeloth. What matters is that he could defend against her Force powers and even grapple with her despite inferiority. That gives him a lot of credit, when matching him against a less impressive power bully like Vitiate.


She was choking him with second body, when he was exhausted from fight with the first. That's about it.


No one claimed he doesn't.


By all means go ahead. Luke killed Shimra without any help from twins.


I didn't. Pulling dovin basal hole is a mediocre feat by Luke's standards. Luke collapsed only because he was in a very bad shape out of practice, in the same book he got exhausted even after short fight with three Vongs. I the end of NJO in comparison Luke marched through countless Vongs, killed multiple Slayers and defeated Shimra.


He does. As well as powers Luke never demonstrated.


True. Doesn't prevent him from winning in this thread.


Now that's interesting.

Anakin's potential hype has been revised to...what by Disney?

It remains G canon that he at the least has the highest midichlorian count ever recorded (Due to EP 1 movie) and Sidious, who's in a position to know, thinks Anakin will be more powerful then either himself or Yoda. Yoda comes right back with 'misplaced your faith in your apprentice may be', but Sidious is following the midichlorian count. Yoda's following the reality that Vader's going to get all his limbs chopped off.

Of course, if you fail to take Legends into account, then Luke>Vitiate, because a real character>imaginary character that does not exist.

Indeed, the smallest, weakest youngling in ep 2>character that no longer exists.

Originally posted by Arhael
And? In another case he cut her down with lightsaber. Should we discard it on the basis he had help from lightsaber? He is obviously not as powerful as Abeloth. What matters is that he could defend against her Force powers and even grapple with her despite inferiority. That gives him a lot of credit, when matching him against a less impressive power bully like Vitiate.
Luke's one-time (solo) victory over Abeloth is not by virtue of his own power, rather by virtue of combination of his vast combat experience, good presence of mind, weaponry (i.e. lightsaber), and effective utilization of the advantages offered by the setting. I give credit where due though: Luke fought admirably in this setting.

Force powers? Abeloth commonly used her brute strength and tentacles to overcome opponents in combat situations. She is an entity and wildling, not a well-trained and disciplined Force-user warrior. She have demonstrated impressive Force powers on occasions but made limited use of them in combat situations.

The fact that Abeloth lost several avatars in confrontations despite her great power, is testament to her inadequacy as a tactician and warrior.

--

Less impressive power bully? Emperor is a brilliant tactician and he valued safety over risks; his combat tactics have served him well for centuries. He is lot more tested then norm and proved his mettle.

Originally posted by Arhael
She was choking him with second body, when he was exhausted from fight with the first. That's about it.
Even if this is not explicitly stated, experienced Jedi are known to replenish their energy after exertions when they have time.

Luke was wounded but had time to replenish his energy and stabilize the injury during the gap between his encounters with Abeloth.

Originally posted by Arhael
No one claimed he doesn't.
Versus scenarios imply otherwise.

Originally posted by Arhael
By all means go ahead. Luke killed Shimra without any help from twins.
Sure:

When he came to an instant later, he saw that Luke had obviously intercepted Shimrra's follow-up blow. But now, monstrous in aspect and power, Shimrra hovered over Luke like a rancor. Luke's lightsaber thrummed through the air, but Shimrra refused to be kept at bay. Luke tried to Force-leap out of reach, but the Supreme Overlord had him caged.

The master of defense is one who is never in the place that is attacked, Jacen recalled Vergere saying. Shimrra appeared to have learned the same lesson. Lunging, the thick, three-meter-long amphistaff wound itself around Luke's torso, pinning his right arm and lightsaber hilt to his side, the green blade aimed at the floor. Just in time, Luke managed to get his left hand
gripped on the snake's uppermost coils and the head as it loosed volumes of venom at him. But Luke was rapidly being squeezed to death by the amphistaff.

Feeling his uncle's suffocation in his own crushed chest, Jacen summoned his strength and crawled frantically for his lightsaber. Calling it to his right hand, he sent it hurtling through the air at Shimrra's head. The Supreme Overlord raised his left hand in a parry; then, with Jacen's lightsaber spinning off toward the throne, he reached into the folds of his hide cape and extracted a lightsaber! With a flourish, he activated it. A violet blade shot forth with the familiar snap-hiss. Jacen recognized it immediately. Anakin's lightsaber.

"Weapon of the Solo we killed at Myrkr," Shimrra said, his eyes shifting through colors as the energy shaft thrummed: "Conveyed to Yuuzhan'tar by the traitor Vergere, wielded by the Jeedai Ganner against so many of my warriors, retrieved when he died and brought to me, and now yours to
confront. So that you may know what my warriors experience at Zonama Sekot, forced to fight against other living vessels."

Jacen was too stunned to respond; too disheartened to move. Shimrra waved the blade close to Luke's head. Luke removed his left hand from the amphistaff's throat to grab Shimrra's right wrist. The serpentine weapon immediately stiffened and plunged itself into the left side of Luke's chest.

Luke screamed in pain.

The Supreme Overlord reared back to gloat: "One thrust and the deed is done!"

Then all at once, Anakin's lightsaber flew from Shimrra's grip into Luke's left hand. Through his Vongsense, Jacen could feel Shimrra's astonishment and dismay. In a motion almost too swift for Jacen's eyes to follow, Luke slit the throat of Shimrra's amphistaff. As its coils began to relax, he sliced his own lightsaber he sliced his own lightsaber blade upward,
cutting the amphistaff's body into segments. As a horrified Shimrra leaned forward, as if to vise his huge hands around Luke's neck, Luke crossed the blades and shoved them upward toward Shimrra's neck.

The blades burned clean through. Shimrra's decapitated head dropped to the floor with a loud thud! and his body crumbled. Luke hauled himself out from under the Supreme Overlord's body and collapsed against the wall.

Taken from The Unifying Force.

As you can see, Shimrra would have killed Luke if Jacen had not interfered. With Jacen's interference, Luke acquired two lightsabers and gained advantage.

Originally posted by Arhael
I didn't. Pulling dovin basal hole is a mediocre feat by Luke's standards. Luke collapsed only because he was in a very bad shape out of practice, in the same book he got exhausted even after short fight with three Vongs. I the end of NJO in comparison Luke marched through countless Vongs, killed multiple Slayers and defeated Shimra.
The vong black hole manipulation feat exhausted Luke because it was a tedious task. It exhausted Kyp as well. And these showings aren't mediocre.

Details are here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=607245&pagenumber=3

Luke performed this feat with full concentration.

Originally posted by Arhael
He does. As well as powers Luke never demonstrated.
Enlighten me.

Lol. @ ^^

Originally posted by Selenial
Lol. @ ^^
Your brain shuts down in matters featuring Abeloth, it seems. I provided direct comparison of the showings of both. Prove that my assessment is wrong.

Also, here is a laugh-worthy event:

The girl was already swinging both hands toward Abeloth and unleashing a dancing fork of Force lightning. Swallowing his surprise, Luke extended his hand to summon her lightsaber and sprang forward as best he could on his injured knee.

It was like hitting a wall of solid Force energy. One moment, he was hurling himself forward, reaching out to coordinate with Ben. The next, he was standing motionless, head spinning and ears ringing, watching Abeloth stumbling out the front door of the hall.

Taken from Fate of the Jedi: Vortex

More importantly, Abeloth lost many avatars in her confrontations with the Jedi and Sith. Seriously, wake up.

That's still defeated by G-Canon, which notes a 'higher midichlorian count then Yoda.' Also, Sidious' statement that Anakin will become more powerful then 'either of us.'

Anakin hasn't lost much, over all. If anything.

Vitate seems to be overstated here....he is certainly no Aboleth, though perhaps if he had a year or two to ritual himself up with millions of sacrificial victims he might temporarily become Aboleth. It' wear off though.

Also of note, Luke wasn't using One with the Force during the Aboleth battle, though Ben was. So Luke wasn't operating at full capacity.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
That's still defeated by G-Canon, which notes a 'higher midichlorian count then Yoda.' Also, Sidious' statement that Anakin will become more powerful then 'either of us.'

Anakin hasn't lost much, over all. If anything.
Anakin certainly had very high midichlorian count but Disney's revised assessment makes sense. Anakin's midichlorian count is highest "on record."

In ancient times, midichlorian counts did not take place. Force-sensitives were commonly identified as such with Jedi senses during ancient times.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Vitate seems to be overstated here....he is certainly no Aboleth, though perhaps if he had a year or two to ritual himself up with millions of sacrificial victims he might temporarily become Aboleth. It' wear off though.
Emperor is not overstated here. I have drawn a direct comparison of some of the powers of both Emperor and Abeloth in combat situations, using official information of both. And Emperor's raw power doesn't wears off, he continued to grow in power throughout his span of existence.

Abeloth have some excellent showings but she is hyped beyond measure to be honest.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Also of note, Luke wasn't using One with the Force during the Aboleth battle, though Ben was. So Luke wasn't operating at full capacity.
Neither did Krayt.

Both Luke and Krayt fought Abeloth in a special setting without using lightsabers and performed very well with their own raw power and talents.

Also, when exactly is Luke ever operating at full capacity? It seems like excuses for Luke never run out.

Krayt is actually operating at higher then normal levels. The Krayt that fights Cade in the future seems weaker then the one we see here.

Full capacity tends to be 'using Oneness.' This is the sort of thing that lets him collapse the Vong Blackhole, as you've mentioned elsewhere.

Since he can use that when he sees fit (nice thing about being a Skywalker...) it's his free choice to go there or not.

The Old Republic does not exist in Disney Canon, so comparing Disney Canon to SWTOR is apples and oranges. SWTOR characters are Legends, and must be compared to other Legends characters.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Krayt is actually operating at higher then normal levels. The Krayt that fights Cade in the future seems weaker then the one we see here.
Or Cade is underestimated?

Here is Cade's respect thread: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/cade-skywalker-respect-thread/97726/

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Your brain shuts down in matters featuring Abeloth, it seems. I provided direct comparison of the showings of both. Prove that my assessment is wrong.

Ok?

It was no good. Abeloth had a dozen times the Force strength Luke had, and he could do no more than keep her from crushing his throat.

Source: Vortex

Originally posted by Selenial
Ok?

It was no good. Abeloth had a dozen times the Force strength Luke had, and he could do no more than keep her from crushing his throat.

Source: Vortex
So you put stock in that statement but not the one below:

The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. Unless this implacable enemy can be defeated, the Jedi Order is doomed.

Source: Encyclopedia

Selective much?

---

Abeloth's supposed 12x greater strength doesn't seems to reflect in her actions somehow. She should theoretically just choke Luke or any Jedi to death.

And yet? Maybe that hype is Luke's opinion?

---

Let's settle this.

The Krayt that fought Cade was weaker, due to his armor slowly killing and crippling him. After his rebirth though, he was stronger than ever.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Abeloth's great strength doesn't seems to reflect in her actions somehow. She should theoretically just choke Luke or any Jedi to death.

And yet?

Or that hype is Luke's opinion?

Abeloth's incompetence makes peoples interpretation of Vitiate look like a prodigy by comparison. If she were that much stronger than Luke she really has no excuse not to have crushed him like a bug.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Krayt that fought Cade was weaker, due to his armor slowly killing and crippling him. After his rebirth though, he was stronger than ever.



Abeloth's incompetence makes peoples interpretation of Vitiate look like a prodigy by comparison. If she were that much stronger than Luke she really has no excuse not to have crushed him like a bug.

Oh, Leg. Leg. facepalm

> hates feats-only approach
> uses feats-only approach when it suits him

My wayward lover Neph has trained you well. mmm

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So you put stock in that statement but not the one below:

The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. Unless this implacable enemy can be defeated, the Jedi Order is doomed.

Source: Encyclopedia

Selective much?

---

Abeloth's supposed 12x greater strength doesn't seems to reflect in her actions somehow. She should theoretically just choke Luke or any Jedi to death.

And yet? Maybe that hype is Luke's opinion?

---

Let's settle this.

I take that quote to be perfectly truthful. I don't believe anyone up to him in the galactic timeline was more powerful than him.

However this was in an encyclopedic medium, stopping it from stretching any further than the day Vitiate dies.

It also does not include anyone who wasn't known to the Galaxy, the people who exist outside space and time like the Ones and the Bedlams.

The Abeloth statement is far far far more precise.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Also one of her bodies got killed by Boba Fett, with a common explosion. ****in' puke.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also one of her bodies got killed by Boba Fett, with a common explosion. ****in' puke.

Perhaps multiple forms weakened her. Makes sense, one of Vitiate's was killed by T7 for ****s sake.

Originally posted by Selenial
Perhaps multiple forms weakened her. Makes sense, one of Vitiate's was killed by T7 for ****s sake.

If she's 12 times as powerful as Luke, she's need to have spread out over a shitton of bodies for that to not be embarrassing as hell.

Boba Fett beating even Sidious or Vitiate isn't embarrassing. He's ****ing Boba Fett.

Well, figure if she has 12 bodies, each is as powerful as Luke.

How many bodies did she have at the time?

Originally posted by Selenial
I take that quote to be perfectly truthful. I don't believe anyone up to him in the galactic timeline was more powerful than him.

However this was in an encyclopedic medium, stopping it from stretching any further than the day Vitiate dies.

It also does not include anyone who wasn't known to the Galaxy, the people who exist outside space and time like the Ones and the Bedlams.

The Abeloth statement is far far far more precise.
That quote can be Luke's own assessment. When he was in the choke-hold of Abeloth, he may have felt that she is like 12 times as strong as him. Novels tend to represent opinion and perspective of characters, miss.

However, if Abeloth was indeed that strong, she would have just snapped Luke's neck or popped his skull. But this did not happen.

I know that Encyclopedia is restricted by timeline. However, it clearly states that Emperor was most powerful among all Force-users for as long as he existed.

If we are to assume that Abeloth somehow grew more powerful afterwards, her performance does not lives up to her hype.

Emperor have solid feats and victories under his belt.

And Abeloth has what? Loss of many avatars?

I feel people who haven't read FOTJ are getting a false understanding of Abeloth's power. Wookieepedia does a bad job on her.
She is easily the worst combatant-to-power character in the Star Wars mythos... reading the books would that make crystal clear.

Legend is correct in that it was only Luke's assessment since the quote is from his perspective. I can't see him being that far off in it though.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I feel people who haven't read FOTJ are getting a false understanding of Abeloth's power. Wookieepedia does a bad job on her.
She is easily the worst combatant-to-power character in the Star Wars mythos... reading the books would that make crystal clear.
BTW LeGenD, in terms of power demonstration, Abeloth would demolish Vitiate. She melted and destroyed entire cities of Sith with Force Screams.

Isn't she literally insane?

I would put Abeloth a shit ton above Luke yeah, but the difference is she is an awful combatant.
She melted and destroyed entire cities of Sith with Force Screams but couldn't beat some Tribe members.

The embodiment of chaos and insanity, yeah. Nothing about her is suppose to make sense, which is the point.

This city is of unknown size and content.

Here are some details:

Her anguish used the Force as a weapon, as she had so often before, but this time she was barely aware that she was releasing nearly inconceivable amounts of Force energy upon a city that was completely unprepared for it.

There were several dozen beings within immediate range, some sleeping quietly in their beds. Most were with their families.

They imploded. Farther away, others awoke in agony as their bodies were turned inside out and chunks were ripped from their bones.

The entire city was attacked by a wind filled with glass shards, each a shikkar driven with a single purpose - to hurt anyone, anything, living inside the City of Glass. They were the Lost Tribe - they would suffer, all of them, as their leader had made her suffer.

The shards melted as they pierced flesh, spreading white-hot, painful death. The buildings, made of metal and glass, dripped slowly toward the ground, smothering those unfortunate enough to be dwelling inside them.

None of it harmed Abeloth, though she would not have noticed it if had. She barely noticed she was lifted from the street where she lay convulsing up into the night air, and a large shape that looked like nothing so much as an angry orange eye sped toward her.

And you think this is grand?

One of Empire's sorcerers also have comparable showing: Lord Fulminiss

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That city is of unknown size and content.

Here:

Her anguish used the Force as a weapon, as she had so often before, but this time she was barely aware that she was releasing nearly inconceivable amounts of Force energy upon a city that was completely unprepared for it.

There were several dozen beings within immediate range, some sleeping quietly in their beds. Most were with their families.

They imploded. Farther away, others awoke in agony as their bodies were turned inside out and chunks were ripped from their bones.

The entire city was attacked by a wind filled with glass shards, each a shikkar driven with a single purpose - to hurt anyone, anything, living inside the City of Glass. They were the Lost Tribe - they would suffer, all of them, as their leader had made her suffer.

The shards melted as they pierced flesh, spreading white-hot, painful death. The buildings, made of metal and glass, dripped slowly toward the ground, smothering those unfortunate enough to be dwelling inside them.

None of it harmed Abeloth, though she would not have noticed it if had. She barely noticed she was lifted from the street where she lay convulsing up into the night air, and a large shape that looked like nothing so much as an angry orange eye sped toward her.

And you think this is grand?

One of Empire's sorcerers also have comparable showing.
No, the city was the capital of the entire planet of Kesh. Here's some pics:

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120924224805/starwars/images/d/dd/Tahv_by_night.jpg
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100202212310/starwars/images/6/6e/Tahv.jpg

Sorry, but killing hundreds-to-thousands of Sith instantly without even noticing is a display of raw power that would demolish even the likes of Luke, Sidious, or Vitiate if directed at them.

Jabiim had a population of 100 million, meaning that City was probably tiny

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Sorry, but killing hundreds-to-thousands of Sith instantly without even noticing is a display of raw power that would demolish even the likes of Luke, Sidious, or Vitiate if directed at them.
And this raw power somehow is not visible in combat situations? Is this my fault?

There are Sith powers which can do lot more devastation then that feat of Abeloth.

She canonically killed "thousands of beings" in a "wave of pain" that was described as a "tsunami."
Only superior domination displays is from Darth Nihilus consuming worlds. Nothing else compares.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
She canonically killed "thousands of beings" in a "wave of pain" that was described as a "tsunami."
Only superior domination displays is from Darth Nihilus consuming worlds, tbh Nothing else compares.
Mega-cities alone have millions of populace in real life. In-fact, their are population centers in Star Wars that have billions of individuals.

Force Storm (Wormhole) rings bells?

Also, Dread Masters destroyed entire fleets with their fear powers, imagine the casualties they inflicted. And they are stated to be insignificant in comparison to Emperor.

Lord Fulminiss also destroyed an entire city once, I provided evidence. He is also Emperor's inferior.

Emperor is capable of mass devastation, should he ever try. He is depicted as a shadowy figure but do not mistake this as a sign of weakness on his part.

Abeloth is way beyond Vitiate. It's not even close TBH.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Force Storm (Wormhole) rings bells?

Also, Dread Masters destroyed entire fleets with their fear powers. And they are stated to be insignificant in comparison to Emperor.

Lord Fulminiss also destroyed an entire city once. He is also Emperor's inferior.

Emperor can do lot more devastation should he ever try. He is depicted as a shadowy figure but do not mistake this as a sign of weakness on his part.

Sidious has better showings than the dread masters.

Random hijack I know, but you acting like they're the best at what they do keeps making me laugh.

Sidious probably could do a display like Abeloth did here (with a lot more effort, obviously), but never had the opportunity due to lack of Force-sensitives in the galaxy.
Dread Masters and Lord Fluminiss don't compare to destroying an entire city of Force-Sensitive Sith. Even Emperor Vitiate hasn't shown anything on this type of scale yet.

Originally posted by ares834
Abeloth is way beyond Vitiate. It's not even close TBH.
Prove it.

Did you see the scene where Abeloth showed enough raw power to send Luke and the entire Jedi Order into a full sprinting retreat?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Prove it.

We already did, you fell back on double standards.

Originally posted by Selenial
Sidious has better showings than the dread masters.

Random hijack I know, but you acting like they're the best at what they do keeps making me laugh.
Sidious have better showings then Abeloth.

And I did not assert that Dread Masters are the best. They are very impressive masters of the dark side nonetheless.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Prove it.

She defeated the Son and Daughter. Both of whom have been confirmed to be more powerful than Vitiate.

Done. That was easy.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Did you see the scene where Abeloth showed enough raw power to send Luke and the entire Jedi Order into a full sprinting retreat?
Enlighten me.

Originally posted by ares834
She defeated the Son and Daughter. Both of whom have been confirmed to be more powerful than Vitiate.

Done. That was easy.
Abeloth beating the Daughter alone proves her superiority to Vitiate, but I disagree with the implication she is more powerful then any member of the Mortis family.

Originally posted by ares834
She defeated the Son and Daughter. Both of whom have been confirmed to be more powerful than Vitiate.

Done. That was easy.
Anakin also defeated Son and Daughter. Not convinced.

Originally posted by Selenial
We already did, you fell back on double standards.
That can be easily Luke's assessment.

Show me actual proof of Abeloth being 12x as powerful as Luke.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Abeloth beating the Daughter alone proves her superiority to Vitiate, but I disagree with the implication she is more powerful then any member of the Mortis family.

She defeated both the daughter and the son simultaneously. The Father had to save them.

Guys I don't think you're going to convince him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Guys I don't think you're going to convince him.

Has anyone ever?

"I don't know," the woman cried. "Please ..."

A sliver of darkness appeared along her skin. For a second, Luke simply thought it another track of her tears, revealing darker skin beneath the white dust.

But then he realized what it was.

They couldn't help Tola Annax anymore. She was already dead.

The crack widened, and more darkness was revealed-darkness that was luminous, pulsating. Abeloth had somehow managed to harness all, or close to all, the dark-side energy that permeated this world, and compress it into this one pitiable being. What had once been Tola Annax now contained unfathomable dark-side energy waiting to be released. It had been both a trick and a test. Had they attacked her, leaping into the pit and slicing her to ribbons with lightsabers, they would have been at the center of the explosion. No one would have survived-and they might yet not survive.

All this registered in a fraction of a heartbeat. "Retreat!" cried Luke, wasting no more breath on words, instead sending a shock wave of urgency in the Force and an image of their initial landing area. There was no time to comm Ben; instead Luke focused on visualizing his son and sending him the same urgent missive: Retreat. Get to safety. Get out.

Everyone responded at once, without question or hesitation, and began to race back toward the gate. The ground began to shake again, yet more violently, and Luke heard the sound of laughter-Abeloth's laughter-following them as they ran for their very lives.

The cloud above them changed. Force lightning struck the ground, struck the ships in the air, struck the Jedi using the Force to give them added speed and distance as they ran. All around them, buildings crumbled to dust. Luke deflected a chunk of a wall hurtling toward him, directing it to slam into another boulder that was heading straight for Seha.

Saba was a few meters ahead of him as they ran. The ground cracked open a scant step in front of her. Without breaking stride, she Force-leapt easily over the suddenly manifesting chasm, landed on the other side, and kept going. Luke, Jaina, and the others did likewise.

The explosion behind them hurled them all into the air. Luke himself had to scramble so he didn't land hard. Even as he twisted to land on his feet, he reached out in the Force and cushioned the fall for some of the less experienced Jedi Knights. He ended up facing back the way he had come, and his eyes widened at what he beheld.

The dormant volcano was dormant no longer. Gouts of orange magma spewed kilometers into the air and rained death down along the side of the mountain. It was a terrifying sight, but what alarmed Luke even more than the racing lava was the cloud above it. It looked like smoke, churning and billowing, gray and thick, but it was nothing so benevolent as mere choking ash. He knew what he was looking at.

Rock so hot it had turned into foam five times hotter than boiling water, moving at more than a hundred kilometers an hour. If this pyroclastic surge overtook them, they would be incinerated instantly, their bodies turned into charcoal.

And it would overtake them within minutes.

Their masks prevented the inhalation of the poisonous gases and thick, blinding ash, but could not cool the suddenly superheated air. Luke used the Force to cool it as best he could as he inhaled. Beside and in front of him, he saw two Jedi suddenly start clawing at their throats, falling an instant later. They had inhaled without cooling the air, and Luke felt sympathetic anguish at the agony in which they had died, drowning in their lungs' own fluid. He squeezed his eyes shut and created a barrier around them with the Force to protect them, running forward now using only his other four senses and the Force.

Fear, determination, pain-all arose around him as the Jedi raced to outrun the cloud of dark side oblivion that was hard on their heels. Some of them would not make it-some already had not. But most of them would.

He forced his eyes to open briefly. Saba Sebatyne, the one with the longest legs of them all, had already reached the gate. Not bothering to raise it, lest it be lowered again on them, she had simply blown the durasteel portcullis apart with the Force. Jedi raced through the hole, even as the walls that held it started to crumble.

Joy and gratitude washed through Luke as he saw dozens of vessels landing and taking on the nearly exhausted Jedi ground force. Others kept going, heading for their own StealthXs. He reached for his comlink, shouting to be heard over the rumble.

"Ben! Ben, can you hear me?"

There was only silence. Luke cursed, clicked the comlink again. "Raynar! Can you take on more passengers?" Most of the Jedi had flown in their own StealthXs, but there had been several larger ships included in the fleet. Raynar had piloted one such, and could get to the tunnels before Luke even reached the Jade Shadow.

"Yes, Master Luke, where do you wish me to go?" Thul's voice, calm as ever.

"Go to the entrance of the caves. Get Ben, Vestara, and Natua. Right now!"

"Adjusting course, Master Skywalker."

"Thank you," said Luke, permitting himself to feel a slight sense of relief. Just as he clicked off the comlink, a sudden vision flashed into his mind: the image of the multilegged, red-eyed creature carved onto the ancient wall. He suddenly realized what it was, and a new, horrible apprehension for Ben's safety seized him.

Find my son, he thought desperately, as he ran with flagging strength toward where he had left the Jade Shadow.

Find my son.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Anakin also defeated Son and Daughter. Not convinced.

Then you're ignoring canon staments. Ones that supersede everything you can bring to the table concerning Vitiate. In other words, you're wrong.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Guys I don't think you're going to convince him.
No, I can be convinced.

But the type of reasoning being offered here is insufficient.

One statement that could be personal thought of Luke is not good enough.

Like I said, if Abeloth > 12x then Luke, she could just snap his neck.

Do you visualize a Sith Lord who is 12x < Emperor, defeating him?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
a Sith Lord who is 12x < Emperor,

So Sidious, right?

@DarthAnt66

Revan send an entire Strike Team of powerful Force-users packing with a Force Wave of such intensity that it disrupted the environment for a moment around the setting.

And after that?

---

Abeloth, for all her hype, should be able to match this feat or do better.

---

Also, a single bolt of lightning from a mediocre Sith send Luke packing:

In the next instant his father was riding a bolt of Force lightning into the grotto wall beside him. Ben ignited his lightsaber and shoved the blade into the crackling energy, disrupting the current and freeing his father.

Source: FOTJ - Vortex

Revan alone is < Luke Skywalker. Add in the entire Jedi Order? The feats don't compare.

Abeloth did this:

Abeloth had somehow managed to harness all, or close to all, the dark-side energy that permeated this world

You know what this is? Tapping in to a nexus.

And as I said, Darth Sidious (DE) and Darth Nihilus have vastly superior showings of devastation then Abeloth.

Originally posted by ares834

They (Sidious and Nihilus) devastated entire planets, genius.

Now, Lord Nyax's hype:

Power flowed through Nyax, such power as no being alive had ever felt. He could reach down into this world, reach through the false crust beneath him, through the natural stone crust beneath that, all the way to where stone turned to sluggish fluid and through to where superheated metals ran like river water. He could crack this world in two, could force the meaningless worker-things to convey him to another, and crack that one, too.

And he was tired of these creatures. They were weaker than he, but so stubborn. Even inventive.

I'm laughing at you completely ignoring the context there. Plus that's not even from Abeloth melting the Sith City.

Originally posted by ares834
I'm laughing at you completely ignoring the context there. Plus that's not even from Abeloth melting the Sith City.
You take me for a fool? I know that that is different feat.

However, Abeloth fully harnessed the nexus of that world to pull off that feat:

Abeloth had somehow managed to harness all, or close to all, the dark-side energy that permeated this world.

Also, she apparently triggered a Volcano:

The dormant volcano was dormant no longer. Gouts of orange magma spewed kilometers into the air and rained death down along the side of the mountain. It was a terrifying sight, but what alarmed Luke even more than the racing lava was the cloud above it. It looked like smoke, churning and billowing, gray and thick, but it was nothing so benevolent as mere choking ash. He knew what he was looking at.

Rock so hot it had turned into foam five times hotter than boiling water, moving at more than a hundred kilometers an hour. If this pyroclastic surge overtook them, they would be incinerated instantly, their bodies turned into charcoal.

And it would overtake them within minutes.

Their masks prevented the inhalation of the poisonous gases and thick, blinding ash, but could not cool the suddenly superheated air. Luke used the Force to cool it as best he could as he inhaled. Beside and in front of him, he saw two Jedi suddenly start clawing at their throats, falling an instant later. They had inhaled without cooling the air, and Luke felt sympathetic anguish at the agony in which they had died, drowning in their lungs' own fluid. He squeezed his eyes shut and created a barrier around them with the Force to protect them, running forward now using only his other four senses and the Force.

Volcanic eruption contributed to lot of destruction. This is description of volcanic activity and its effects.

Yes, I take you for a fool.

Originally posted by ares834
Yes, I take you for a fool.
You are a fool yourself.

Concentrate on provided information instead of trolling.

I'm not the one trolling here. You asked a question and I answered truthfully. That's not the action of a troll.

Originally posted by ares834
I'm not the one trolling here. You asked a question and I answered truthfully. That's not the action of a troll.
You thought that I cannot read and understand. This is personal attack and inflammation, a sign of trolling.

I do understand what I read.

Tell me, what the cited description explains.

Here:

Abeloth harnessed the power of nexus of the planet and triggered volcanic activity. Of-course, volcanic eruptions are momentous and destructive events.

I merely answered your question truthfully. Perhaps, if you don't wish to be insulted, don't ask such questions.

Originally posted by ares834
I merely answered your question truthfully. Perhaps, if you don't wish to be insulted, don't ask such questions.
Don't try to assume that people are stupid or something. Clear?

Also, you did not answer my question.

What are Abeloth's actions in the provided description? Explain.

I never assumed such a thing.

Originally posted by ares834
I never assumed such a thing.
Explain the purpose of your trolling then.

When did I troll you in this thread?

Originally posted by ares834
When did I troll you in this thread?
Why did you laugh and stated that I am a fool?

What do you think you are? You are better then others?

Like i stated earlier, I laughed at you ignoring context. And I was merely responding to your question.

Nope.

Originally posted by ares834
Like i stated earlier, I laughed at you ignoring context. And I was merely responding to your question.

Nope.
I ignored what?

Below is an explanation of the cited event:-

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
"I don't know," the woman cried. "Please ..."

A sliver of darkness appeared along her skin. For a second, Luke simply thought it another track of her tears, revealing darker skin beneath the white dust.

But then he realized what it was.

They couldn't help Tola Annax anymore. She was already dead.

The crack widened, and more darkness was revealed-darkness that was luminous, pulsating. Abeloth had somehow managed to harness all, or close to all, the dark-side energy that permeated this world, and compress it into this one pitiable being. What had once been Tola Annax now contained unfathomable dark-side energy waiting to be released. It had been both a trick and a test. Had they attacked her, leaping into the pit and slicing her to ribbons with lightsabers, they would have been at the center of the explosion. No one would have survived-and they might yet not survive.

All this registered in a fraction of a heartbeat. "Retreat!" cried Luke, wasting no more breath on words, instead sending a shock wave of urgency in the Force and an image of their initial landing area. There was no time to comm Ben; instead Luke focused on visualizing his son and sending him the same urgent missive: Retreat. Get to safety. Get out.

Everyone responded at once, without question or hesitation, and began to race back toward the gate. The ground began to shake again, yet more violently, and Luke heard the sound of laughter-Abeloth's laughter-following them as they ran for their very lives.

The cloud above them changed. Force lightning struck the ground, struck the ships in the air, struck the Jedi using the Force to give them added speed and distance as they ran. All around them, buildings crumbled to dust. Luke deflected a chunk of a wall hurtling toward him, directing it to slam into another boulder that was heading straight for Seha.

Saba was a few meters ahead of him as they ran. The ground cracked open a scant step in front of her. Without breaking stride, she Force-leapt easily over the suddenly manifesting chasm, landed on the other side, and kept going. Luke, Jaina, and the others did likewise.

The explosion behind them hurled them all into the air. Luke himself had to scramble so he didn't land hard. Even as he twisted to land on his feet, he reached out in the Force and cushioned the fall for some of the less experienced Jedi Knights. He ended up facing back the way he had come, and his eyes widened at what he beheld.

The dormant volcano was dormant no longer. Gouts of orange magma spewed kilometers into the air and rained death down along the side of the mountain. It was a terrifying sight, but what alarmed Luke even more than the racing lava was the cloud above it. It looked like smoke, churning and billowing, gray and thick, but it was nothing so benevolent as mere choking ash. He knew what he was looking at.

Rock so hot it had turned into foam five times hotter than boiling water, moving at more than a hundred kilometers an hour. If this pyroclastic surge overtook them, they would be incinerated instantly, their bodies turned into charcoal.

And it would overtake them within minutes.

Their masks prevented the inhalation of the poisonous gases and thick, blinding ash, but could not cool the suddenly superheated air. Luke used the Force to cool it as best he could as he inhaled. Beside and in front of him, he saw two Jedi suddenly start clawing at their throats, falling an instant later. They had inhaled without cooling the air, and Luke felt sympathetic anguish at the agony in which they had died, drowning in their lungs' own fluid. He squeezed his eyes shut and created a barrier around them with the Force to protect them, running forward now using only his other four senses and the Force.

Fear, determination, pain-all arose around him as the Jedi raced to outrun the cloud of dark side oblivion that was hard on their heels. Some of them would not make it-some already had not. But most of them would.

He forced his eyes to open briefly. Saba Sebatyne, the one with the longest legs of them all, had already reached the gate. Not bothering to raise it, lest it be lowered again on them, she had simply blown the durasteel portcullis apart with the Force. Jedi raced through the hole, even as the walls that held it started to crumble.

Joy and gratitude washed through Luke as he saw dozens of vessels landing and taking on the nearly exhausted Jedi ground force. Others kept going, heading for their own StealthXs. He reached for his comlink, shouting to be heard over the rumble.

"Ben! Ben, can you hear me?"

There was only silence. Luke cursed, clicked the comlink again. "Raynar! Can you take on more passengers?" Most of the Jedi had flown in their own StealthXs, but there had been several larger ships included in the fleet. Raynar had piloted one such, and could get to the tunnels before Luke even reached the Jade Shadow.

"Yes, Master Luke, where do you wish me to go?" Thul's voice, calm as ever.

"Go to the entrance of the caves. Get Ben, Vestara, and Natua. Right now!"

"Adjusting course, Master Skywalker."

"Thank you," said Luke, permitting himself to feel a slight sense of relief. Just as he clicked off the comlink, a sudden vision flashed into his mind: the image of the multilegged, red-eyed creature carved onto the ancient wall. He suddenly realized what it was, and a new, horrible apprehension for Ben's safety seized him.

Find my son, he thought desperately, as he ran with flagging strength toward where he had left the Jade Shadow.

Find my son.

Abeloth harnessed the entirety of the dark side energy of this world and compressed it into a single individual as a bait for the Jedi. However, the Jedi realized the trick and decided to flee. Abeloth, on noticing this, released the energy harnessed by her earlier, in raw form, causing destruction and activating a volcano nearby in the process.

The remainder of the devastation is a description of aftermath of volcanic eruption.

NOTE: Read about volcanic eruption and its effects and you all will understand my point.

--

Abeloth's feat is undoubtedly impressive but it is important to understand the content.

The reason why Anakin beat the Son/Daughter was because he tapped into his true potential, which surpasses even the Father. So I don't see why you're trying to downplay Abeloth beating those two by bringing up Anakin when the context of the episode made it very clear it was a one-time power-up.

Ah, but if that's Anakin's full potential, it says a lot about Luke's too, which is considerably more relevant to the thread.

Even if Luke isn't QUITE as strong...he's also not far off, either. Probably no more then the difference between Father and Daughter.

(Prime) Father is more than double the strength of the Daughter, so.....

...so am I underestimating Luke or overestimating Daughter?

Cause I think the midichlorian counts are something like 27000 to 24000.

If that's a static scale, Luke's max should be about 8/9 of Anakin's.

Originally posted by The Merchant
The reason why Anakin beat the Son/Daughter was because he tapped into his true potential, which surpasses even the Father. So I don't see why you're trying to downplay Abeloth beating those two by bringing up Anakin when the context of the episode made it very clear it was a one-time power-up.
You do realize the implications of this, right?

The implication is simply that Anakin was supposed to replace Father on Mortis. (And presumably, Luke and Leia would replace Son and Daughter.)

What else could what I be saying implying? It's flat out made clear to us that Anakin unlocking his full potential is above the Father. That's all I'm really saying.

Yet Abeloth is twelve times as strong as Luke, who according to Lucas has nearly the same potential as Anakin, who also according to Lucas had the potential to be twice as powerful as Sidious.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Here: http://www.starwars.com/databank/anakin-skywalker

Oh, just thought I'd say, that's overruled by TCW.

TCW States him to be more powerful than any known Jedi.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yet Abeloth is twelve times as strong as Luke, who according to Lucas has nearly the same potential as Anakin, who also according to Lucas had the potential to be twice as powerful as Sidious.
That makes sense. Both Anakin and Luke are mortals, not on level with the Ones. To surpass Abeloth they would need to bath in Pool of Knowledge and Font of Power, imho.

Originally posted by Selenial
Oh, just thought I'd say, that's overruled by TCW.

TCW States him to be more powerful than any known Jedi.


Did the narrator of TCW say "more powerful than any Jedi" or "any Jedi or Sith"? I can't remember.


Either way it is kindy sh***y that they changed his Official Profile from saying something like "he had the potential to become the most powerful force user of all time" to "..had the potential to become One of the most powerful Jedi of all time.."

But also is irrelevant to this thread seen as Vitiate doesn't even officially exist in the new revamped canon.

So if Aboleth is worth 12 Lukes, she's worth 24 of Sidious?

Luke isn't twice as powerful as Sidious. He isn't shown to be anyway.

If Anakin's max is 2x Sidious, and Luke is almost as good as dear old dad, then Luke's max should be something like 1.9 Sidious.

Except he isn't. Luke hasn't even shown himself to be anywhere near that powerful.

Can anyone actually locate/verify a source for this quote? The version I'm familiar with:

has been sourced to this documentary:
YfqeFs7PODI
by this fan page. The problems are that
1. I skimmed through the parts where GL is obviously talking (spent about eight cumulative minutes and was not thorough) and found nothing, but this was dumb and an easily foreseeable outcome because
2. the documentary came out nine months before Revenge of the Sith. (Dismemberment and immolation on Mustafar is far too specific.)

So yeah. Bullshit. I also don't think GL needs to/would hinge the validity of that factoid on the "was believed" bit. Identify and verify or let it die.

If I've missed a valid sourcing... oops.

I've posted the quote before. I believe it was from his interview with Rolling Stone.

Edit: The interview was back when RotS was being released.

Edit 2: Originally posted by ares834
Nah. It's in the Vanity Fair Interview from February 2005.

"Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful," he says. "But he ended up losing his arms and a leg and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because, as a living form, there's not that much of him left. So his ability to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he's maybe 20 percent less than the Emperor. So that isn't what the Emperor had in mind. He wanted this really super guy, but that got derailed by Obi-Wan. So he finds that, with Luke, he can get a more primo version if he can turn Luke to the Dark Side. You'll see, as this goes on, Luke is faced with the same issues and practically the same scenes that Anakin is faced with. Anakin says yes and Luke says no."

I don't actually have the issue mind you and am using an online version of it.

Unless Lucas specifically said he was changing his mind about that, word of Lucas still trumps anything a website says.

Lucas also said he never read the EU and the emperor was never cloned. He also said Luke could be as powerful as Anakin would have been. He never said he was.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Unless Lucas specifically said he was changing his mind about that, word of Lucas still trumps anything a website says.

He doesn't own Star Wars anymore. Disney's authority now supersedes his.

I thought they kept him on for canon purposes. They can't retroactively abolish his canon.

Ehhhhhhh.

Well, let's not do a canon debate. However, I do believe the admin here need to update the canon hierarchy thread.

Need to be reminded if Word of Lucas trumps Word of Mickey Mouse or not.

Nope, at least not that I know of.

Luke doesn't have to be twice as powerful as Sidious (in realized power) to win this. He has a potential to be like his father, has he/will he reach that potential? Who knows.

Yet, Luke's feats establish him as a tad above DE Sidious IMHO, This is more than enough to take down most Sith.

Bump.

Luke stomps

Vitiate

Your trolling is more obvious than that PT Legend guy's lmao

Originally posted by Azronger
Your trolling is more obvious than that PT Legend guy's lmao

You accuse me of trolling when you have similar opinions yourself? Which genius came up with this stupid logic?

Originally posted by Azronger
Your trolling is more obvious than that PT Legend guy's lmao Or my opinion changed...

mmm

Luke curbstomps.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Emperor bombards Luke with lightning, weakening his defenses, and then overwhelms him with sorcery. /thread.

"You are mine. Weapon. Slave. Servant. And you will obey." Emperor's plan afterwards.

Luke Skywalker cloaks himself in nanosecond, teleports Vitiate into a black hole, then push black hole into another singularity. He then bang Mara Jade Skywalker for lals. /thread.

"Threepio, tell them if they don't do as you wish, you'll become angry and use your magic." Luke Skywalker's plan afterwards.

roflamo