Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Two powerful sith. Both at their prime, who wins?

Battle takes place on the Planet Lothal, in the hidden Temple.

Who gets destroyed?

Plagueis.

Exar Kun.

Plagueis

I'm still unsure why people are so impressed by Plageuis's saber skills. He showed little of note in the novel other than killing a featless Sith Lord and killing some mooks. It's his force powers that truly made him monstrous.

Superior speed, super physical attributes put him above Kun by a noticeable margin. He would just overwhelm him eventually.

I agree Kun by feats is more skilled, but Plagueis is better in every other capacity

Originally posted by ares834
I'm still insure why people are so impressed by Plageuis's saber skills. He showed little of note in the novel other than killing a featless Sith Lord and killing some mooks. It's his force powers that truly made him monstrous.

He's stupidly strong, very fast, incredibly powerful and a deadly duelist. IMO he's similar to Sidious in that while he is uninterested in dueling, he is nonetheless a master swordsman with the power to throw down with the best.

In order to instruct Sidious in lightsaber combat, Plagueis had to be at least loosely comparable to him, which makes Plagueis Maul-ish tier in skill. And yeah, he's much faster than Kun although strength is closer.

Plagueis.

Originally posted by ares834
I'm still unsure why people are so impressed by Plageuis's saber skills. He showed little of note in the novel other than killing a featless Sith Lord and killing some mooks. It's his force powers that truly made him monstrous.

While I agree that he is often given too much credit in this area, he definitely has the chops to back up his status as a high-calibre duelist.

I mean, the lone fact that a fairly lightsaber-heavy Banite Sith considers you a master duelist is already pretty solid hype; and from there he goes on to defeat Darth Venamis--another apprentice of Darth Tenebrous who demonstrated enormous levels of technical skill in their duel--despite the fact that Venamis was trained specifically to counter his style.

Also, while it's supposedly a fairly standard ritual for a Banite Sith, Plagueis also defeated hundreds of Kursid Warriors without killing them, alongside his apprentice Palpatine. He also deflected fire from dozens of shooters firing from multiple directions at once, which paints the picture of a very talented swordsmaster.

And again, as Nephthys noted, he's stronger than Vader and faster than Maul with incredible levels of endurance and ability to sustain damage.

Everything you named there, Revan has done too, just against different and better opponents.
I look forward to future Plagueis topics with you putting Revan above him as a duelist. Kun wins this one.

Plagueis has a massive reach advantage over Revan though.

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/316/2/c/darth_plagueis_vs_darth_venamis_1_by_jensaarai1-d6tyyn9.jpg

Once I'm done my essay on the Mongols, probably going to respond to Sasukedc's essay with shit Revan did.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Everything you named there, Revan has done too, just against different and better opponents.

Not at all! He's weaker than Vader, and slower than Maul; none of the Banite lineage have anything to say about his dueling abilities, in none of his major duels was his opponent trained for the sole purpose of countering his style, and none of his blast deflection feats are remotely as impressive.

That said, Plagueis also isn't the awesomesauce duelist some make him out to be, either; Exar Kun has a legitimate chance as well.

Plagueiz get deafeted by a guy with a light zaber ztaff XD
I Azzume than plagueiz and Revan are quazi equal in light zaber combat... Juzt than Plagueiz phyzical augmentation are clearly better.. Where Revan focuz on zpeed and have a better zppeed... Revan uze longue blade and Malak too, Malak have the longezt blade in all the EU... Conzidering than Revan waz zparing with him Plagueiz reach won't affect the combat....

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Everything you named there, Revan has done too, just against different and better opponents.
I look forward to future Plagueis topics with you putting Revan above him as a duelist. Kun wins this one.

Except that he hasn't done any of what he said? He hasn't been regarded as a master swordsman by anyone noteworthy, he hasn't defeated a massively skilled dude specifically trained to counter him, he's not stronger than Vader, he's not faster than Maul, he hasn't defeated a hundred warriors without killing them, he hasn't deflected fire from dozens of attackers and multiple angles at once.

So um, you're completely full of shit?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Not at all! He's weaker than Vader, and slower than Maul; none of the Banite lineage have anything to say about his dueling abilities, in none of his major duels was his opponent trained for the sole purpose of countering his style, and none of his blast deflection feats are remotely as impressive.

That said, Plagueis also isn't the awesomesauce duelist some make him out to be, either; Exar Kun has a legitimate chance as well.
We shall see then, yes?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I mean, the lone fact that a fairly lightsaber-heavy Banite Sith considers you a master duelist is already pretty solid hype; and from there he goes on to defeat Darth Venamis--another apprentice of Darth Tenebrous who demonstrated enormous levels of technical skill in their duel--despite the fact that Venamis was trained specifically to counter his style.

Also, while it's supposedly a fairly standard ritual for a Banite Sith, Plagueis also defeated hundreds of Kursid Warriors without killing them, alongside his apprentice Palpatine. He also deflected fire from dozens of shooters firing from multiple directions at once, which paints the picture of a very talented swordsmaster.

None of which are all that impressive.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
he's stronger than Vader and faster than Maul with incredible levels of endurance and ability to sustain damage.

I'll admit I didn't consider Plagueis's force enhanced attributes which are very impressive. However, I would disagree with both of these. As I've claimed several times before there is a big deference between running speed and dueling speed. Also punching through a droid (at least that's what I recall him doing) isn't as impressive as some of Vader's best strength feats.

Update: ShootingNova made a Rebellion Era Luke respect thread.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I mean, the lone fact that a fairly lightsaber-heavy Banite Sith considers you a master duelist is already pretty solid hype
I mean, the lone fact that the leader of an entire civilization devoted to combat and war considered him the greatest warrior the galaxy has ever seen (Tulak Hord and Exar Kun, anyone?) is already pretty solid hype.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
and from there he goes on to defeat Darth Venamis--another apprentice of Darth Tenebrous who demonstrated enormous levels of technical skill in their duel--despite the fact that Venamis was trained specifically to counter his style.
and from there he goes on to slaughter an Imperial Guard member--the personal execution force of the Sith Emperor who canonically have unparalleled levels of physical perfection in their reign--despite the fact that the Imperial Guard were trained specifically to kill powerful Jedi like Revan, and were drawing off the strength of the most powerful Sith Lord in history!

-or-

and from there he goes on to defeat Darth Malak--the current reigning Dark Lord of the Sith who is one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history and harnesses an immense command of the Force, yet superior lightsaber abilities in "melee combat"--despite the fact Darth Malak has been stated to be the opposite of Revan in terms of nearly all combat related circumstances.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Also, while it's supposedly a fairly standard ritual for a Banite Sith, Plagueis also defeated hundreds of Kursid Warriors without killing them, alongside his apprentice Palpatine. He also deflected fire from dozens of shooters firing from multiple directions at once, which paints the picture of a very talented swordsmaster.
Also, while it's supposedly a impossible feat during the "prime of the Jedi", Revan also defeated hundreds of Dark Jedi by killing them, alongside two companions that don't resemble the strength of someone like Palpatine. He also deflected fire from a literal Infinite Army of enhanced droids on the Star Forge, as well as countless Mandalorians and Basilisk war droids (the same droids that have enough firepower to go through entire Star Destroyer size ships).

LOL @a brute like Canderous being at all comparable to a Banite Sith, this is pathetic.



Rofl, nice try. Being trained to fight Jedi, and being trained to counter a specific form are vastly different, as are Venamis and a guard.



Dozens*, according to the actual material, and defeating enemies without killing them takes a lot more control than slaughtering them.



Dem infinite armies of a couple dozen droids.

Damn

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Update: ShootingNova made a Rebellion Era Luke respect thread.

At first I was impressed at how long it was, then I realized I was on his blogs page. His thread is severely lacking, in actuality. I'm actually really disappointed in Nova, tbh--and starting to understand where you and DMB were coming from.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I mean, the lone fact that the leader of an entire civilization devoted to combat and war considered him the greatest warrior the galaxy has ever seen (Tulak Hord and Exar Kun, anyone?) is already pretty solid hype.


and from there he goes on to slaughter an Imperial Guard member--the personal execution force of the Sith Emperor who canonically have unparalleled levels of physical perfection in their reign--despite the fact that the Imperial Guard were trained specifically to kill powerful Jedi like Revan, and were drawing off the strength of the most powerful Sith Lord in history!

-or-

and from there he goes on to defeat Darth Malak--the current reigning Dark Lord of the Sith who is one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history and harnesses an immense command of the Force, yet superior lightsaber abilities in "melee combat"--despite the fact Darth Malak has been stated to be the opposite of Revan in terms of nearly all combat related circumstances.


Also, while it's supposedly a impossible feat during the "prime of the Jedi", Revan also defeated hundreds of Dark Jedi by killing them, alongside two companions that don't resemble the strength of someone like Palpatine. He also deflected fire from a literal Infinite Army of enhanced droids on the Star Forge, as well as countless Mandalorians and Basilisk war droids (the same droids that have enough firepower to go through entire Star Destroyer size ships).

Lol.

Lol @ Newguy brown nosing to DMB. This is a guy who tried to lie and say Bane/Banite Sith were capable of resistance to drain at SWF, and who would fill a respect thread with his own analysis/nexus feats. He wouldn't do any better at a respect thread than Nova

Originally posted by carthage
This is a guy who would fill a respect thread with his own analysis/nexus feats. He wouldn't do any better at a respect thread than Nova

That's true, I was referencing a lack of content rather than quality of work.

Just a note, I laughed so hard at your PMs Sas.
I'm also assuming the majority of which you did not respond to is a concession/acceptance.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
LOL @a brute like Canderous being at all comparable to a Banite Sith, this is pathetic.
Uh, a Mandalore is no joke. Suggesting otherwise is lolworthy. Mandalorians alone are side-by-side equals to Jedi Knights.


Indeed, the Guard's more impressive. In all seriousness though, the form argument isn't that credible when you take in speed, precognition, and technical skill on such form.


They said dozens in a shit ton of different areas though, which would accumulate to hundreds.
Also, the text notes the Sith overcame them through superior speed (Force-enhancement), not in one-versus-hundred combat.
Also, he was only able to defeat them without killing them because the use of a Force pike, not because of skillful precision like you preach.



Infinite!!!11!!!!1!!!!!

Originally posted by carthage
Lol @ Newguy brown nosing to DMB. This is a guy who tried to lie and say Bane/Banite Sith were capable of resistance to drain at SWF, and who would fill a respect thread with his own analysis/nexus feats. He wouldn't do any better at a respect thread than Nova
Why do you keep going out of your way to insult me and try to piss me off?

Me too.



The stuff I didn't respond to isn't even related to Plagueis's feats. You said he did everything Plagueis did, so I'm not sure why you're giving feats that are completely unrelated.



The weakest of the known Mandalores is no match for Bane. Or Meetra Surik, for that matter.



This made no sense.



Just so happens speed is part of lightsaber dueling.



A jab from a Force Pike can kill a fvcking Bantha, dude.

I was so offended by this I refuse to even respond.

http://tancast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/River-Song-Spoilers.gif
---
You were discussing raw technical prowess though, not all the other junk included.

The pike has different energy settings, that was obviously among the higher one.
The text notes they defeated them each by a lone tap by the Force pikes, which didn't kill them.

Originally posted by NewGuy01



A jab from a Force Pike can kill a fvcking Bantha, dude.

It can also incap a full grown Wookiee with it's shock charge.

Although you got the quote for the Bantha one? That's rather interesting and I'd like to see, if ya got it.

The Force Pike is one of those pretty awesome melee weapons.

Exar Kun takes skill, strength and potentially precognition.

Keep in mind that Kun with a standard saber was a total stalemate for Ulic, a guy who has speedblitzed Dark Jedi and created quad after-images of not just his lightsaber but himself in combat. I don't see Plagueis being all that much faster despite his Venamis performance.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Except that he hasn't done any of what he said? He hasn't been regarded as a master swordsman by anyone noteworthy, he hasn't defeated a massively skilled dude specifically trained to counter him, he's not stronger than Vader, he's not faster than Maul, he hasn't defeated a hundred warriors without killing them, he hasn't deflected fire from dozens of attackers and multiple angles at once.

So um, you're completely full of shit?

Holy - does Neph argue against Revan here???

And calls Revan a male?

Newsflash, Neph argues against Revan all the time.

Ant ruined his Revan experience back in 2014.

SWTOR: Revan started it, Ant's wank finished it.

Dark Revan and Light Revan remerging is still a better love story than Dark Disciple.

Kun.