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Scenario 1:
Location: Dathomir
1. Sabers
2. Force
3. All Out


Scenario 2:
Location: Dromund Kaas Citadel
1. Sabers
2. Force
3. All Out

Scenario 3:
Location: Neutral Ground
1. Sabers
2. Force
3. All Out


Who takes the majority?

The Sith

Sith by a long shot. Since a weaker version of Sidious wasn't specified, it's assumed to be his DE version. Poor team 2. Poor totally outclassed Talzin.

Yoda would've needed Luke as a partner to pull this off.

If It's ROTS Sidious then 1 and 3 go to team two, if it's DE they lose all 3.

1 Team 1 1 and 3.

Team 1 in all round !

Team 1 in all round.

I'm not sure if Talzin can beat Vitiate, that could go either way. Sidious will kill Yoda though

Well, it depends on the incarnation. If it's ROTS Sidious, Talzin can hold him off round one while Yoda beats the shit out of vitiate.

Originally posted by Selenial
Well, it depends on the incarnation. If it's ROTS Sidious, Talzin can hold him off round one while Yoda beats the shit out of vitiate.

The sith win.

Originally posted by Selenial
Well, it depends on the incarnation. If it's ROTS Sidious, Talzin can hold him off round one while Yoda beats the shit out of vitiate.

Talzin cannot hold off Sidious. Yoda can hold off ROTS Sidious...and indeed did so, but the resulting draw is in Sidious' favor.

Vitiate is the wild card here, how useful he is depends greatly on what amps are around and how much prep he has. If the answer is 'sufficient to perform at his usual level' then he can take Talzin, who is most certainly not an Emperor.

Talzin tanked Sidious and then Sidious and Dooku simultaneously in one of her weakest states (she died during the Jar Jar episodes). Maul then lent her his power but she reacted by just Force Pushing him.

Full strength Talzin was strong enough to take on Sidious toe-to-toe, no wonder Sidious was peeing his robes at the thought of the even more powerful Gethzerion.

Talzin is more than enough for facing Sidious or Vitiate.

None stands to Sidious. As I said earlier, this is the Emperor Reborn we're talking about. She's got nothing on Force Storm.

DE Sidious should be specified I am taking this as ROTS Sheev.

I figured unspecified always meant 'strongest known incarnation that did not rely on amps'

Interesting thread

Assuming it's RotS Sidious:
On Dathomir and neutral ground, Talzin and Yoda take it. Yoda can speedblitz Vitiate tbh, while Sidious figths a longer battle with Talzin.

Assuming it's DE Sidious:
Sidious and Vitiate take all, probably.

This is ROTS Sidious, DE Sidious would obviously make this an unbalanced thread.

I thought so, Yoda takes out Vitiate whilst Talzin tanks Sidious.

Undecided. Luke ranks the top of the mortals and Vitiate is the very bottom of the immortals.

Just for the lulz....

Does anything change for Team 1 if it's ROTJ Sidious? Who seems to be stronger in the Force but not quite as good a duelist as his ROTS incarnation. Old age hampering his saber skills somewhat.

^I put ROTS Sidious slightly above ROTJ Sidious for the same reasons I put ROTS Sidious above Vitiate.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Just for the lulz....

Does anything change for Team 1 if it's ROTJ Sidious? Who seems to be stronger in the Force but not quite as good a duelist as his ROTS incarnation. Old age hampering his saber skills somewhat.

I wouldn't think so, but why would his skill in saber be diminished? He was able to strike down several Jedi before they could react. Plus with his ability in the Force being greater, his physicals are pretty much the same.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I wouldn't think so, but why would his skill in saber be diminished? He was able to strike down several Jedi before they could react. Plus with his ability in the Force being greater, his physicals are pretty much the same.


^Wasn't that shortly after ROTS? And everyone doesn't age the same way. I.e. Kenobi and Dooku.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
^Wasn't that shortly after ROTS? And everyone doesn't age the same way. I.e. Kenobi and Dooku.

I'm not sure....maybe?

Also I know, but even still. I mean I guess Sidious' skill could have diminished, but I haven't really seen anything that says it did, unless I've missed something.

But even then, I don't think it would matter much cause even if ROTJ Sidious' skill in saber did diminish, his power in the Force is greater which would make up for that I feel.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
And everyone doesn't age the same way. I.e. Kenobi and Dooku.
That always intrigued me. I believe it indeed has to do a lot with the inherent force power, hence why Yoda or Dooku remain exceptionally agile and physically powerful even at their old age, while weaker force-users like Bane, Jinn or Kenobi show clear signs of diminished abilities even in their 50s.

In RotS Sidious was in his 60s, and one of the most agile and fastest force-users ever. I doubt he was that much worse by RotJ.

Originally posted by Stigma
That always intrigued me. I believe it indeed has to do a lot with the inherent force power, hence why Yoda or Dooku remain exceptionally agile and physically powerful even at their old age, while weaker force-users like Bane, Jinn or Kenobi show clear signs of diminished abilities even in their 50s.

In RotS Sidious was in his 60s, and one of the most agile and fastest force-users ever. I doubt he was that much worse by RotJ.

I mean...in ROTJ he had a cane, so his physical condition has likely deteriorated, couple that with the fact that he probably hasn't touched a saber in over 2 decades...Although I do remember reading someone saying that said it was a facade.

Yeah, it might have been a facade, given that Yoda also used a cane. At times when he was not the uber Ataru master, that is.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Undecided. Luke ranks the top of the mortals and Vitiate is the very bottom of the immortals.


Go home Ant, you're drunk and in the wrong thread.

Originally posted by Stigma
Yeah, it might have been a facade, given that Yoda also used a cane. At times when he was not the uber Ataru master, that is.

Truth, but Yoda had indeed grown weaker after his 800th b-day or something like that.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Go home Ant, you're drunk and in the wrong thread.

Originally posted by Stigma
Yeah, it might have been a facade, given that Yoda also used a cane. At times when he was not the uber Ataru master, that is.

The cane was for just appearances as I recall Sidious didn't actually need it, I know there's a bit on it, i'll see if I can find it.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Truth, but Yoda had indeed grown weaker after his 800th b-day or something like that.
Yeah, I also rememeber that. I think it was Mace who said that Yoda "slowed down significally" during Mace's lifetime, or something to that effect.

My point is that even with their old age, powerful force users like Yoda, Dooku or Palpatine should (and indeed do) remain exceptionally agile and fast in contrast to lesser force-users who's force reserves are simply smaller and perhaps dry up sooner.

Originally posted by Stigma
Yeah, I also rememeber that. I think it was Mace who said that Yoda "slowed down significally" during Mace's lifetime, or something to that effect.

My point is that even with their old age, powerful force users like Yoda, Dooku or Palpatine should {and indeed o) remain exceptionally very agile and fast in contrast to lesser force-users who's force reserves are simply smaller and perhaps dry up sooner.

Yeah he said he 'Lost a step' in Path of the Jedi, which is crazy considering in Shadow Hunter he casually eluded Depa, Plo Koon, and Saesee Tiin.

This is true, although ROTS Sidious is a better swordsman, and ROTJ is a better force user more than likely.

RotJ Sidious is well above RotS Sidious in the Force.

Compared to the nothing saying he's weaker in sabers.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yeah he said he 'Lost a step' in Path of the Jedi, which is crazy considering in Shadow Hunter he casually eluded Depa, Plo Koon, and Saesee Tiin.

This is true, although ROTS Sidious is a better swordsman, and ROTJ is a better force user more than likely.
Agreed.

This is why I always imagine both RotS and RotJ Sidious to be, on the whole, on the same level.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
RotJ Sidious is well above RotS Sidious in the Force.

Compared to the nothing saying he's weaker in sabers.


Proof he's even touched a blade in 20 years? He wasn't even carrying his blade in ROTJ. At least in TFU he was carrying one. Speaking of TFU, he got his blade stolen from him by Rahm ****ing Kota.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
RotJ Sidious is well above RotS Sidious in the Force.

Compared to the nothing saying he's weaker in sabers.
This is true in principle, I guess.

I agree on the force part. With sabers it is my personal belief that Sidious diminished slightly, mainly due to less practice. But I will not make a big deal out of it.

EDIT: And I think we can all agree that even in RotJ Sidious is a much better duelist than Vitiate.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Proof he's even touched a blade in 20 years? He wasn't even carrying his blade in ROTJ. At least in TFU he was carrying one. Speaking of TFU, he got his blade stolen from him by Rahm ****ing Kota.
Proof he didn't?

As for Kota, that had no bearing on lightsaber skill, and Kota's obviously below him in everything else.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Proof he's even touched a blade in 20 years? He wasn't even carrying his blade in ROTJ. At least in TFU he was carrying one. Speaking of TFU, he got his blade stolen from him by Rahm ****ing Kota.

So? What does that matter? A lightsaber is an item, it's not apart of Sidious, so why wouldn't Kota be able to take it? Plus Kota showed some nice Force feats anyway, so him pulling a lightsaber isn't shocking.

Sidious' lightsaber is a nexus of dark energy because of constant applications and exposure to him.

I always thought it was hilarious when ROTJ Sidious told Luke he was 'unarmed.'

Luke: Banthapoodoo you're unarmed, you're the strongest Sith in history, the presence or lack of a lightsaber on your person is entirely irrelevant.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
I always thought it was hilarious when ROTJ Sidious told Luke he was 'unarmed.'

Luke: Banthapoodoo you're unarmed, you're the strongest Sith in history, the presence or lack of a lightsaber on your person is entirely irrelevant.

Lol, I would watch that scene if it was parodied and laugh.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Sidious' lightsaber is a nexus of dark energy because of constant applications and exposure to him.
And the emperor Vitiate iz alzo a nexuz of Dark energy XD.

No he is not, he has only ever been referred to as a living embodiment of the Dark Side, Sidious is the only Force User confirmed to be a nexus of Dark Side energy. He discovered the Force Storm technique due to his immensity of power and practicing with Force Maelstrom.

On Dathomir, Talzin should be about equal to Sidious and Yoda as a Force user. Vitiate is the weakest link in that scenario, Yoda and Talzin take this.

On Dromund Kaas Citadel... Well, it's DS Nexus after all, isn't it?
Sidious > Yoda, Vitiate >= Talzin there.

On neutral ground Yoda is equal to Sidious, and I would say, that Talzin is slightly above Vitiate, which should be the deciding factor.

Talzin was explicitly shown to be lesser than Sidious, even on Dathomir.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Talzin was explicitly shown to be lesser than Sidious, even on Dathomir.


Was she? The Lightning contest seemed undecided until Dooku and Grievous stepped in.

I know people point out how there's one scene where there Lightning seemed to meet closer to Talzin, but not sure how convincing evidence that is that Sidious was overpowering her.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Was she? The Lightning contest seemed undecided until Dooku and Grievous stepped in.

I know people point out how there's one scene where there Lightning seemed to meet closer to Talzin, but not sure how convincing evidence that is that Sidious was overpowering her.

Not to mention she was in a weakened state.

Vitiate can probably beat Talzin with moderate effort, he'd die to Yoda but Yoda would lose to Sidious.

The Sith win imo

Yoda dies to DE Sidious. He will stalemate RotS Sidious, though.

Good fight. I could see it going either way.