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Make your cases.

Vitiate sucks ass

Originally posted by ILS
Vitiate sucks ass

mmm

Over, Vitiate is fine and powerful. But some just put him on a place that he doesn't belong.

More to that, why is it such a big deal anyway? He's powerful, so there's no need to try and make him something that he isn't.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Over, Vitiate is fine and powerful. But some just put him on a place that he doesn't belong.

More to that, why is it such a big deal anyway? He's powerful, so there's no need to try and make him something that he isn't.
Same can be said for Luke.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Same can be said for Luke.

You've already made a thread addressing that subject. What about Vitiate?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You've already made a thread addressing that subject. What about Vitiate?
I am slowly but surely trying to make a realistic assessment of all well-known powerful Star Wars characters, avoiding all FANON hype in the process. This will take some time, but I hope that fans will find such assessment useful in the long-run and rationality will replace FANON hype in debates.

However, their will be those who would still roll their eyes. And nothing can be done about them.

As for the topic, Vitiate is underrated.

An interesting revelation though: nothing matches Bedlam spirits.

Originally posted by ILS
Vitiate sucks ass

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Same can be said for Luke.

Not sure where you're going with this. Luke is fine where he's at.

Originally posted by ILS
Vitiate sucks ass

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Not sure where you're going with this. Luke is fine where he's at.
The (realistic) Luke is fallible and may loose in fights against other immensely powerful opponents. However, (Fanon) Luke just solos virtually every opponent and manipulates real black holes in debates. This is the difference.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The (realistic) Luke is fallible and may loose in fights against other immensely powerful opponents. However, (Fanon) Luke just solos virtually every opponent and manipulates real black holes in debates. This is the difference.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Over, Vitiate is fine and powerful. But some just put him on a place that he doesn't belong.

More to that, why is it such a big deal anyway? He's powerful, so there's no need to try and make him something that he isn't.



Exactly.

He's easily one of the most powerful sith in the mythos. After Sidious, he holds the best hype and accolades, and he has a very impressive combat feat: taking out a groups of powerful jedi with a powerful storm of lightning, which is his best feat on record as far as I know. However, placing him on par with Sidious, is vastly overrating him. Sidious has far more impressive and consistent combat feats against more powerful force users that were done with far greater ease than Vitiate's best combat showing. Even as of ROTS, Sidious is noticeably more powerful than Vitiate. As of DE, Sidious is far more powerful.

There's no reason to assume Vitiate is on par with Sidious. No, Sidious can't ragdoll Vitiate, and Vitiate would put up quite a challenge in a force contest, IMO, but there is a gap between them. And if Sidious were to close in on him, he'd annihilate Vitiate with ease.

My answer to this thread is Obvious. I believe that just by placing him on par with Sidious is overrating him. A feat to feat comparison, Sidious has him beat solidly. DE Sidious makes Vitiate look like a mere child playing around with rituals to pull off feats that are less potent than feats Sidious can pull off with mere thoughts which come from Sidious's own natural power, without aid. In terms of accolades and hype, Sidious has him beat there pretty solidly as well.

Someone please make a case for Vitiate, because I'm not seeing why people place him higher than he is.

You've made your case, my son. Well done.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Exactly.

He's easily one of the most powerful sith in the mythos. After Sidious, he holds the best hype and accolades, and he has a very impressive combat feat: taking out a groups of powerful jedi with a powerful storm of lightning, which is his best feat on record as far as I know. However, placing him on par with Sidious, is vastly overrating him. Sidious has far more impressive and consistent combat feats against more powerful force users that were done with far greater ease than Vitiate's best combat showing. Even as of ROTS, Sidious is noticeably more powerful than Vitiate. As of DE, Sidious is far more powerful.

There's no reason to assume Vitiate is on par with Sidious. No, Sidious can't ragdoll Vitiate, and Vitiate would put up quite a challenge in a force contest, IMO, but there is a gap between them. And if Sidious were to close in on him, he'd annihilate Vitiate with ease.

My answer to this thread is Obvious. I believe that just by placing him on par with Sidious is overrating him. A feat to feat comparison, Sidious has him beat solidly. DE Sidious makes Vitiate look like a mere child playing around with rituals to pull off feats that are less potent than feats Sidious can pull off with mere thoughts which come from Sidious's own natural power, without aid. In terms of accolades and hype, Sidious has him beat there pretty solidly as well.

Someone please make a case for Vitiate, because I'm not seeing why people place him higher than he is.
Very nice, S66. Reading your posts is always a pleasure.

I am of opinion that also Plagueis and Caedus should be placed above Vitiate, especially concerning combat.

Other potential candidates are Nihilus (for N.'s fanbois) or Kun (for Kun's fanbois) or perhaps Krayt etc.

Sheer feats wise, Palpatine (DE) have most impressive showings in the entire mythos. I don't see why only known feats are being considered for evaluation here.

Underrated.

Make your case, b1tch. Right now, S66 is mushroom tapping the hell out of you.

Originally posted by ILS
Vitiate sucks ass

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sheer feats wise, Palpatine (DE) have most impressive showings in the entire mythos. I don't see why only known feats are being considered for evaluation here.
Don't worry. Palpatine has also better hype, and as of RotS.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You've made your case, my son. Well done. I see your sense of humor has improved.

Originally posted by psmith81992
I see your sense of humor has improved.

Whether or not you agree with it, he actually gave reasons. The Vitiate campaign is pretty flaccid here, Beefy. Show 'em how it's done.

LeGenD has more credibility then you these days, Temp. Not sure why you're talking.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Make your case, b1tch. Right now, S66 is mushroom tapping the hell out of you.

That he's underrated? People like carthage, stigma and others say that he's worthless and can be easily blitzed by Anakin and up. He's hyped as an almost godlike being of pure dark power who whooped Revan in seconds, yet people hold more respect for the latter than him and suggest that without a nexus and prep he's a limp-wristed feeb. People routinely suggest that people like Sidious, Yoda, Caedus, Plagueis and even Talzin can stomp him. He's underrated by many. I don't know how you think I should establish that without extensively quoting past posts.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That he's underrated? People like carthage, stigma and others say that he's worthless and can be easily blitzed by Anakin and up. He's hyped as an almost godlike being of pure dark power who whooped Revan in seconds, yet people hold more respect for the latter than him and suggest that without a nexus and prep he's a limp-wristed feeb. People routinely suggest that people like Sidious, Yoda, Caedus, Plagueis and even Talzin can stomp him. He's underrated by many. I don't know how you think I should establish that without extensively quoting past posts.

This will do just fine. Proud of you, big boy.

Btw, the case of Vitiates superiority over Sidious is because he its embarrassingly superior to a Yoda tier Force user and the Dread Master collective.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
LeGenD has more credibility then you these days, Temp. Not sure why you're talking.

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/good-good-let-the-butthurt-flow-through-you.jpg

You're silly. And shamelessly regurgitating my own remarks.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That he's underrated? People like carthage, stigma and others say that he's worthless and can be easily blitzed by Anakin and up. He's hyped as an almost godlike being of pure dark power who whooped Revan in seconds, yet people hold more respect for the latter than him and suggest that without a nexus and prep he's a limp-wristed feeb. People routinely suggest that people like Sidious, Yoda, Caedus, Plagueis and even Talzin can stomp him. He's underrated by many. I don't know how you think I should establish that without extensively quoting past posts.

{Though I would ask if you stand beside LeGenD and Ant in their opinion of the character.}

Yeah you know those great DMs that got beaten by fodder Jedi

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sheer feats wise, Palpatine (DE) have most impressive showings in the entire mythos. I don't see why only known feats are being considered for evaluation here.
Exactly. Unknown feats are much better. Remember when Obi-Wan absorbed a sun?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
{Though I would ask if you stand beside LeGenD and Ant in their opinion of the character.}

I'm open to the idea that Vitiate could be greater than Sidious. He certainly should be, due to being an unprecedented dark power even before he drained 8000 Sith Lords and the energy of a planet and then spent 1400 years continually growing more powerful and mastering the darkside more than anyone else possibly could. Based on that, Legends assessment of him approaching One-like strength should be accurate.

However, Karpyshan and Bioware royally ****ed that up by having Revan and others actually able to compete with him and portraying his abilities extremely poorly. If Bioware wants to get back to portraying him as unimaginably powerful again in the coming expansions, well I'm open to that. As of now though his showings don't support that assessment. I still think that he has some of the greatest Force powers of anyone, particularly in telepathy and lightning where my opinion stands that he's the greatest practitioner of both. But Bioware seriously needs to step up it's game to match the reality with their hype.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm open to the idea that Vitiate could be greater than Sidious. He certainly should be, due to being an unprecedented dark power even before he drained 8000 Sith Lords and the energy of a planet and then spent 1400 years continually growing more powerful and mastering the darkside more than anyone else possibly could. Based on that, Legends assessment of him approaching One-like strength should be accurate.

However, Karpyshan and Bioware royally ****ed that up by having Revan and others actually able to compete with him and portraying his abilities extremely poorly. If Bioware wants to get back to portraying him as unimaginably powerful again in the coming expansions, well I'm open to that. As of now though his showings don't support that assessment. I still think that he has some of the greatest Force powers of anyone, particularly in telepathy and lightning where my opinion stands that he's the greatest practitioner of both. But Bioware seriously needs to step up it's game to match the reality with their hype.

Originally posted by Stigma
Don't worry. Palpatine has also better hype, and as of RotS.


True, which is why I pointed that out as well.

LeGenD wants to disregard Palpatine's greatest feat because it happens to be the most destructive and potent attacks in the mythos, yet he constantly wanks Vitiate's aided ritual feats as if they represent his own natural power.

The thing is, there are force users who have quotes, confirming them to be above Sidious, regardless of Sidious unmatched showing, so it's safe to assume that those confirmed superior characters are capable of producing more power. Hell, it's implied that both the son and daughter have the power to destroy the universe if released from Mortis. In Luke's case, he is a light sider, so naturally he wouldn't unleash such destructive energy, just as we'd never see Yoda unleashing energy as potent as ROTS Sidious, but we know he matches Sidious in power. Luke has feats that exceed Sidious's in certain areas, and we have showings from him that indicate he has the power to produce more destructive attacks than Sidious. Vitiate has absolutely nothing to suggest he rivals Sidious in power, so his hype and quotes are irrelevant compared to someone greater than him.

I just want to see a case made for Vitiate. How is he underrated?

Originally posted by The_Tempest


What? You've agreed that Vitiate's hype should make him ****ing godly before, so what's the problem?

Vitiate doesnt compare to Sidious at all, obviously Sidious is faster, more skilled, more powerful, and doesnt need a nexus to accomplish virtually everything

I find he moves back and forth between over and under rated.

I hope carthage posts a lot here, because I'm sure everything he says will help my case immensely.

The same usual garbage you post wanking his nexus feats and failing to provide any actual showings of Vitiate's power without external aid? Lol ok

Originally posted by The_Tempest



My expression exactly lmao.

Neph, stop.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
My expression exactly lmao.

Neph, stop.

I thought my post was reasonable. I recognize the realities and based on his showings and feats only put Vitiate on Sidious' level, not above him or even necessarily on par with him. I also recognize the ridiculous hype Bioware has attempted with him and I'm open to future developments. I don't think Vitiate will ever actually be Legend-style One levels of silliness, I just think his backstory should have suggested similar levels. This isn't the case though.

I thought it was as well. Vitiate supposedly has the power of thousands of Sith and an entire planet at his disposal. He should be far more powerful than any Jedi or Sith. However, his actual displays place him on an even level with the higher tiers.

If you are going to listen to reason for the most part, read gideons shit. If you want a treasure trove of biased stupidity, s66 is your guy.

Originally posted by psmith81992
If you are going to listen to reason for the most part, read gideons shit. If you want a treasure trove of biased stupidity, s66 is your guy.
My feelings about you constantly shift from raw hatred to an unhealthy obsession.

Neph = Legend sock, confirmed January 13th 2015.

Ant, I like that the only quote you didn't put in that little respect thread of yours was that the dread masters are literally nothing without each other, and that they are basically one collective person. You act like individually they're all top tier, but it's simply not true.

Originally posted by ares834
I thought it was as well. Vitiate supposedly has the power of thousands of Sith and an entire planet at his disposal. He should be far more powerful than any Jedi or Sith. However, his actual displays place him on an even level with the higher tiers.

Not to mention 300 years of draining the shit out of Revan. And yeah, the power of 8000 Sith Lords should make him insanely beyond anyone else. Eight ****ing thousand. It's absurd.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
My feelings about you constantly shift from raw hatred to an unhealthy obsession. I call it like i see it. Sugar coating is for pussies.

Originally posted by Selenial
Ant, I like that the only quote you didn't put in that little respect thread of yours was that the dread masters are literally nothing without each other, and that they are basically one collective person. You act like individually they're all top tier, but it's simply not true.
Ah, I thrive off comments like these. The double-standards are so blunt I can get high off of it.
Your Exile respect thread on her combat abilities failed to mention she got whooped by Nyriss.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66



The fact that you would say Vitiate is more powerful than Yoda is as stupid as using a fallible in-universe source who states Vitiate is greater than the combined might of the dread masters, whose best feats are their telepathic abilities. Not to mention that their individual power is hard to evaluate, especially in terms of combat; obviously as Cart pointed out, they're not so impressive in terms of combat. Sidious proved that even a group of some of the jedis' best are nothing to him. Not to mention he has shown he can effortlessly ragdoll other extremely powerful force user (even two at a time), whom are capable of ragdolling other powerful force users. Even Dooku can be easily killed by Sidious from a distance of light years. Sorry, I don't find Vitiate's quote all that impressive compared to what Sidious has shown to be capable of doing. Sidious still has that quote that calls him a dark side nexus powerful enough to rip apart the fabric of space/time, that particular quote itself is greater than any quote Vitiate has in regards to force power, and it's not even an exaggerated/hyperbolic quote, as Sidious has shown that he has the power to do so (and with a mere thougth, at that). That's not even bringing up the quote that said Palpatine's force storm threatened to consume "all of space" (Comics Companion). That's not including tons of superior quotes Sidious has to his name, period.

Seriously, Vitiate more powerful than Yoda? Lmao

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Ah, I thrive off comments like these. The double-standards are so blunt I can get high off of it.
Your Exile respect thread on her combat abilities failed to mention she got whooped by Nyriss.


On a dark side nexus, after visiting Natheema. You subscribe to the worthless notion that unlike every other Jedi in history, Meetra totally wasn't wounded. I don't. That's an interpretation of canon material, one your beloved god thinks is perfectly fine.

On the other hand you're ignoring a blatantly stated canon fact, I fail to see how they're different.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
True, which is why I pointed that out as well.

LeGenD wants to disregard Palpatine's greatest feat because it happens to be the most destructive and potent attacks in the mythos, yet he constantly wanks Vitiate's aided ritual feats as if they represent his own natural power.
I want to disregard that? No.

Disney may do it though.

As for Emperor, what you do not get is that he continued to increase in power with passage of time and also continued to hone his talents in the dark side further. He is officially noted to have explored the most sinister and uncharted depths of the dark side. Therefore, it is not far-fetched to assume that Emperor could perform Nathema event single-handedly after a spending centuries to improve his abilities in sorcery along with continuous growth in power. Emperor did single-handedly corrupt the entire atmosphere of a gigantic planet (i.e. Dromund Kaas) at a certain point after the Nathema event, as an example.

By the way, Force Storm (Wormhole) power can be learned. Jedi Order banned its practice. In addition, It is possible that Emperor have knowledge of this power, based on his exploration of most sinister and uncharted depths of the dark side.

In short, Emperor's character leaves room for lot of creative liberties.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The thing is, there are force users who have quotes, confirming them to be above Sidious, regardless of Sidious unmatched showing, so it's safe to assume that those confirmed superior characters are capable of producing more power. Hell, it's implied that both the son and daughter have the power to destroy the universe if released from Mortis. In Luke's case, he is a light sider, so naturally he wouldn't unleash such destructive energy, just as we'd never see Yoda unleashing energy as potent as ROTS Sidious, but we know he matches Sidious in power. Luke has feats that exceed Sidious's in certain areas, and we have showings from him that indicate he has the power to produce more destructive attacks than Sidious. Vitiate has absolutely nothing to suggest he rivals Sidious in power, so his hype and quotes are irrelevant compared to someone greater than him.
The Ones and Abeloth are stronger then Sidious (Canon incarnation). Not sure how Palpatine (DE) is measured in comparison to them.

I really do not buy that hype of Son and Daughter honestly. They failed to destroy Abeloth for instance.

In addition, Son attacked Obi-Wan, Anakin and Ahsoka with his telekinetic powers and outcome was not better in comparison to other Force-user juggernauts who have comparable showings in the mythos. So if Son could really destroy the Universe, why couldn't he vaporize 3 Jedi?

I find that statement of Father manipulative since he wanted Anakin to take his place. To convince Anakin, it would make sense for the Father to concoct a scary story for the Jedi to give his request a consideration.

Also, Abeloth is the reason why The Ones resided in Mortis.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I just want to see a case made for Vitiate. How is he underrated?
I just did right above.

Originally posted by psmith81992
If you are going to listen to reason for the most part, read gideons shit. If you want a treasure trove of biased stupidity, s66 is your guy.


Well I can't quite say anything similar about you, because no one here cares about your life, let alone the lies you make up about your life in order to impress people who don't know you.

I love it when Legend uses phrases he doesn't understand, accidently admitting most of his arguments are BS.

Originally posted by Selenial
I love it when Legend uses phrases he doesn't understand, accidently admitting most of his arguments are BS.
Care to enlighten?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The fact that you would say Vitiate is more powerful than Yoda is as stupid as using a fallible in-universe source who states Vitiate is greater than the combined might of the dread masters, whose best feats are their telepathic abilities.
The Dread Master's telepathic and corruption abilities turned a planet into an indescribably powerful nexus of dark side energies. They are no joke.

Not to mention that their individual power is hard to evaluate, especially in terms of combat; obviously as Cart pointed out, they're not so impressive in terms of combat.
They are very impressive in combat, the fact you don't know that proves you lack education on them and therefore you discussing them is pathetic.


Sidious proved that even a group of some of the jedis' best are nothing to him.
Last time I check, the only time Sidious took on the Jedi's best is when they forced him into crying for Anakin to save him, unless I am mistaken?

Not to mention he has shown he can effortlessly ragdoll other extremely powerful force user (even two at a time), whom are capable of ragdolling other powerful force users.
This isn't more impressive then Revan's feat, hun. Once the barrier is broken, it doesn't matter what character A does with characters B, C, D, etc.

Even Dooku can be easily killed by Sidious from a distance of light years.
You say that as if it has some real meaning, and if Dooku actually had a Force Barrier on in the protective barries of his castle.

Sorry, I don't find Vitiate's quote all that impressive compared to what Sidious has shown to be capable of doing.
That's your failings, not mine.

Sidious still has that quote that calls him a dark side nexus powerful enough to rip apart the fabric of space/time, that particular quote itself is greater than any quote Vitiate has in regards to force power, and it's not even an exaggerated/hyperbolic quote, as Sidious has shown that he has the power to do so (and with a mere thougth, at that).
Indeed, DE Sidious is very impressive, though I fail to see how linking two places together via the power of the Force is more impressive then utterly consuming all that space and time for infinite more miles.

That's not even bringing up the quote that said Palpatine's force storm threatened to consume "all of space" (Comics Companion).
Can I have a quote on this?



This pissed me off too much to where I know I won't be able to respond without offending you, so I won't.

Out of the dumb things said in this thread so far, the bold text is numero uno. I mean, wow.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Care to enlighten?

A creative or artistic liberty is basically pure exaggeration. For example, historical films take "creative liberties" that hold little historical accuracy in the attempt of making them more dramatic, even if they don't stay true to what they actually were.

If you want to learn more, read up on Coppola's film Marie Antoinette, that's probably the most well known one.

Ant you're more enjoyable when you attempt to insult me. You're starting to sound like LeGenD when you attempt to debate, honestly.

Do you have any insults for me, BTW?

Ant, what planet did the DM's turn into a Nexus? Oricon always was...

And they used artefacts for that anyway.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You're starting to sound like LeGenD when you attempt to debate, honestly.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Ant you're more enjoyable when you attempt to insult me. You're starting to sound like LeGenD when you attempt to debate, honestly.

Do you have any insults for me, BTW?
I know, I amaze myself sometimes. And, if you really consider that a debate, you're embarrassing.
Like, I'm rather appalled people can search my username and your username has the potential chance to come up.

Originally posted by Selenial
Ant, what planet did the DM's turn into a Nexus? Oricon always was...

And they used artefacts for that anyway.
"Oricon was affected by the Dread Masters. Even their combined power was insignificant compared to the Emperor."

There is so much evidence to Vitiate's power, the Sidious fanboyism is amusing.

Originally posted by psmith81992
There is so much evidence to Vitiate's power, the Sidious fanboyism is amusing.
/implying S66's words can even be considered apart of any respective group is laughable.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
"Oricon was affected by the Dread Masters. Even their combined power was insignificant compared to the Emperor."

Affected by them in that they used artefacts to corrupt it's wildlife.

I can roll with that I guess.

Originally posted by Selenial
Affected by them in that they used artefacts to corrupt it's wildlife.

I can roll with that I guess.
Lol no. Darth Vitus was the only predecessor who went to Oricon and all he did was corrupt experiment on some beasts, the Dread came and did the rest.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Lol no. Darth Vitus was the only predecessor who went to Oricon and all he did was corrupt experiment on some beasts, the Dread came and did the rest.

With the terraforming devices they stole from Arcanum, yes.

Do you even play the game?

Originally posted by psmith81992
There is so much evidence to Vitiate's power, the Sidious fanboyism is amusing.


The lawyer has spoken.

Careful S66, he will play the Chris Rock card.

Originally posted by Selenial
With the terraforming devices they stole from Arcanum, yes.

Do you even play the game?
I accept your concession since you're clinging on to new defenses. Also, I am taking in account the Seeds and Phobos as powers of the Dread Masters since they aid them in combat situations by granting them additional Force prowess.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I accept your concession since you're clinging on to new defenses. Also, I am taking in account the Seeds and Phobos as powers of the Dread Masters since they aid them in combat situations by granting them additional Force prowess.
What new defense?

What did you think I meant by artefacts?

Originally posted by Nephthys
I thought my post was reasonable. I recognize the realities and based on his showings and feats only put Vitiate on Sidious' level, not above him or even necessarily on par with him. I also recognize the ridiculous hype Bioware has attempted with him and I'm open to future developments. I don't think Vitiate will ever actually be Legend-style One levels of silliness, I just think his backstory should have suggested similar levels. This isn't the case though.


Eh, I don't feel like scrolling that far back, but it seemed like you were implying that Vitiate embodied the dark side to a greater extent than Sidious did.

But I see what you're saying with the rest, though.

Originally posted by Selenial
What new defense?

What did you think I meant by artefacts?
You shifted arguments.

I have no clue what artefacts are. Is that the UK version?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Eh, I don't feel like scrolling that far back, but it seemed like you were implying that Vitiate embodied the dark side to a greater extent than Sidious did.

But I see what you're saying with the rest, though.


Except for the feats part. Nothing Vitiate has done rivals Sidious combat showings, unless you ignore context.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You shifted arguments.

I have no clue what artefacts are. Is that the UK version?

You don't know what an artefact is?

Ok what about a relic, you know that?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Careful S66, he will play the Chris Rock card.

"Boo hoo I couldn't come up with any kind of rebuttal so I'm going to continue crying".

Understood

Originally posted by Selenial
You don't know what an artefact is?

Ok what about a relic, you know that?
It's called an artifact, I didn't realized till last post what you meant.

Originally posted by psmith81992
"Boo hoo I couldn't come up with any kind of rebuttal so I'm going to continue crying".

Understood

HXj3pKRVNwY

You know you love me really bro.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's called an artifact, I didn't realized till last post what you meant.
Oh. Yeh, English again.

I always spell it Artifact but my very-British Siri that lives in my phone gets angry and underlines it. ._.

Originally posted by Selenial
Oh. Yeh, English again.

I always spell it Artifact but my very-British Siri that lives in my phone gets angry and underlines it. ._.
You need an American Siri. It comes with a Hamburger and a side of FREEDOM.

Yeah but it also secretly infects your computer with viruses like RACISM, SOCIAL INEQUALITY, BAD HEALTHCARE and HOMOPHOBIA.

Someone is still mad about the beating they received nearly 250 years ago I see.

Originally posted by ares834
Someone is still mad about the beating they received nearly 250 years ago I see.
LOL.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah but it also secretly infects your computer with viruses like RACISM, SOCIAL INEQUALITY, BAD HEALTHCARE and HOMOPHOBIA.
And single digit unemployment.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You need an American Siri. It comes with a Hamburger and a side of FREEDOM.


I'll be surprised if you dont run as a Republican congressman when you get older lol.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And single digit unemployment.

Texas.

Considering it's larger than your entire country, you shouldn't be shocked to learned it varies.

I'd say both, it just depends on who you talk to.











I don't know about that; It's pretty obvious that the scene you just mentioned aboard the Emperor's space station in itself was intended to parallel Palpatine's in the Chancellor's office-it's clear that some level of parity is implied.

He does have a lack of ability in regards to physical combat, but I'm questioning how much that matters. Other sorcerers like Mother Talzin and Gethzerion could go toe to toe with Sidious, and I'd consider none of them to be Vitiate's equal.



Curious--any examples?



You're silly. Vitiate is BioWare's and Karpyshyn's character. Their interpretation of him not aligning with what you think he should be is not a valid argument.

Originally posted by carthage
I'll be surprised if you dont run as a Republican congressman when you get older lol.

I find that extremely improbable.

Nope. He creates his own expectations and scenarios that help his argument.

I assume he's referring to Byss.

Byss was a nexus, lol.

Yes. Palpatine didn't need 8,000 people to make it one. He just needed to exist.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Yes. Palpatine didn't need 8,000 people to make it one. He just needed to exist.

Except Vitiate needed 8,000 sith lords to become immortal. And he ended up destroying the entire planet. You're not really providing a valid comparison.

What a shitstorm.

And nice work, NewGuy.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Except Vitiate needed 8,000 sith lords to become immortal. And he ended up destroying the entire planet. You're not really providing a valid comparison.

He didn't destroy the entire planet.

Palpatine's Force storms are "triggered by mere thought and inclination" {The Essential Guide to the Force} and, at their maximum potency, "threaten to consume all of space" {The Dark Empire endnotes}.

BTW, I echo Skillz's sentiment in that your response was very good.

Skillz, what say you on this subject?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
He didn't destroy the entire planet.

I mean he destroyed everything on the planet.

Originally posted by psmith81992
I mean he destroyed everything on the planet.

I don't remember the damage being that significant {but I haven't read that particular passage of Revan in years}. Are you sure you aren't confusing it with Nihilus's onslaught of Katarr as portrayed in "Unseen, Unheard"?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I don't remember the damage being that significant {but I haven't read that particular passage of Revan in years}. Are you sure you aren't confusing it with Nihilus's onslaught of Katarr as portrayed in "Unseen, Unheard"?

100% certain. Everything on the planet was destroyed. There was no color to it either, everything was brown. Millions died, the force ceased to exist.

Also, you haven't given your opinion beyond attacking S66. I'd be interested to read what you have to say, Beefy.

Everything was in ruin but not completely destroyed. T3 was able to salvage technology and materials from the planet.

Originally posted by psmith81992
100% certain. Everything on the planet was destroyed. There was no color to it either, everything was brown. Millions died, the force ceased to exist.

Ok, I'll have to double check.

Regarding Byss, Sidious transformed Byss into "one of the strongest dark side sites in the galaxy" {"Byss and the Deep Core"} with his own hellish energies. An approximate timeframe for that feat isn't given {it's said the process was "slow"} but I think it's safe to assume it took longer than a week or however long was required for Vitiate to ravage Nathema.

At the same time, to FreshestSlice's point, a shitton of full-fledged Sith Lords were involved in that. Their overall point is that Sidious is more or less a self-made man whereas Vitiate had a lot of metaphysical help.

As a staunch Republican, you should admire how much more of a baller that makes Sidious. uhuh

My opinion on the subject is that he's both. I can't turn around and say he's a universally hated character based on the opinions of some posters, however many also do indeed believe him to be a fairly weak feeb, which is just as egregious as putting him on par with The Son.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Also, you haven't given your opinion beyond attacking S66. I'd be interested to read what you have to say, Beefy.

I gave my opinion in the bold text. The whole post is ludicrous. While I'm not yet contending Vitiate is DE Sidious' equal (we'll see eventually), to suggest there's a wide gap is ridiculous. And then adding a caveat such as "with aid", makes the argument even worse. That's like me saying Sidious sucks because he got shot in the back by Han "I'm old enough to do Viagra commercials" Solo.


Not really, because they both were trying to do different things. Not a valid comparison.

Originally posted by psmith81992
I gave my opinion in the bold text. The whole post is ludicrous. While I'm not yet contending Vitiate is DE Sidious' equal (we'll see eventually), to suggest there's a wide gap is ridiculous.

So you're saying Vitiate is underrated because S66 says there's a wide gap between him and DE!Sidious?

What about the flipside: LeGenD routinely claims that Vitiate is on par with or superior to the Mortis Anchorites and Abeloth.

Is it a wash?

Originally posted by psmith81992
And then adding a caveat such as "with aid", makes the argument even worse.

Are you saying it's unreasonable to be more impressed with a Sith Lord who has achieved great things with much less time and external aid than a Sith Lord who has achieved only comparable things with much more time and much more external aid?



Han was in his early 40s at the time he shot Sidious in the back and you have in fact made that exact argument.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Not really, because they both were trying to do different things. Not a valid comparison.

Two individuals don't have to be attempting the exact same task for a third individual to determine which is more impressive.

Let's say, by the end of the night, you manage to pin a grizzly bear whereas I only succeed in tying my shoelaces, can I then say that your achievement can't be said to be more impressive than mine since we weren't attempting the same thing?

Anyone who assumes Vitiate needs a nexus and prep to do anything, or that he'd be speedblitzed, or that he's some weak feeb is underrating him.

Anyone whose putting him on The Ones' level is overrating him.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
My opinion on the subject is that he's both. I can't turn around and say he's a universally hated character based on the opinions of some posters, however many also do indeed believe him to be a fairly weak feeb, which is just as egregious as putting him on par with The Son.
Pretty sure most do that to anger Neph and LeGenD. Not because they're serious.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Pretty sure most do that to anger Neph and LeGenD. No because they're serious.

ie. trolling?

No, i'm saying he isn't overrated and the gap that S66 pretends is there isn't.


I never saw that. That's dumb.


What does "impressed" have to do with anything? And what external aid? The fact that guy X achieves different results through rituals? I'm impressed with how many force users it's taking to take Vitiate down. I haven't said he's superior to DE Sidious yet. But the gap is very narrow.


If I made that argument, it was in response to a stupid argument.



One sith lord killed millions of people, tore the force from the planet, and became immortal in the process.. All in a span of 10 days. The other one spent decades "draining" the citizens of byss (we don't really know the properties of that drain). Even if Sidious didn't use a ritual, I find Vitiate's ritual more impressive.

Your deductive prowess serves you well, Dmb.

The term is pestering. I am not so base.

Originally posted by psmith81992
No, i'm saying he isn't overrated and the gap that S66 pretends is there isn't.

He's not the only one to perceive a gap {in either direction}.

Originally posted by psmith81992
I never saw that. That's dumb.

He's as persistent and vocal with that opinion as S66 is with his.

Originally posted by psmith81992
What does "impressed" have to do with anything? And what external aid? The fact that guy X achieves different results through rituals? I'm impressed with how many force users it's taking to take Vitiate down. I haven't said he's superior to DE Sidious yet. But the gap is very narrow.

People add the caveat about Vitiate because Vitiate has historically relied more on rituals and assistance to achieve his ends than Sidious is known to have done.

To further clarify: I think it's perfectly valid to dock Vitiate {or any character} points for use of preparation and assistance when another character comes along and does something of comparable magnitude without it. If you pick up an object that requires me to enlist aid in lifting, that's more impressive.

Originally posted by psmith81992
If I made that argument, it was in response to a stupid argument.

And perhaps S66's "stupid argument" {your words} is simply a demonstration of the same tactic; a response to the "stupid arguments" of people like LeGenD?

Originally posted by psmith81992
One sith lord killed millions of people, tore the force from the planet, and became immortal in the process.. All in a span of 10 days. The other one spent decades "draining" the citizens of byss (we don't really know the properties of that drain). Even if Sidious didn't use a ritual, I find Vitiate's ritual more impressive.

"Decades" is never actually given. And the first Sith Lord's ritual required the participation of 8 thousand Sith Lords. That's not a minor detail.

The only one who really seems to be doing that is Carthage (God bless his soul.) others, such as ILS (maybe,) Angel, Stigma, Selenial, etc. are a different story. Stigma does troll, but that's mostly with Bane, not Vitiate. Then there's the culprit that actually brings great merit (S66,) though I ultimately disagree with his conclusions. You are actually somewhat fair to Tenebrae.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The only one who really seems to be doing that is Carthage (God bless his soul.) others, such as ILS (maybe,) Angel, Stigma, Selenial, etc. are a different story. Stigma does troll, but that's mostly with Bane, not Vitiate. Then there's the culprit that actually brings some merit (S66,) though I ultimately disagree with his conclusions. You are actually somewhat fair to Tenebrae.

You talking to FS or me?

They don't underrate Vitiate. They're overrating others.

Then he and legend are equally retarded.


I didn't say it's invalid to dock points. I said that even as a ritual, what Vitiate did was still more impressive than what Sidious did in my opinion.


I've ready very little from Legend but I do know S66 has been here for years spouting the same nonsense.


There was no "requirement". That was how many were used, whether by choice or not. Just like the entire Jedi that came before Brand were not "required" to hold Sidious' spirit, just how many were used.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Anyone who assumes Vitiate needs a nexus and prep to do anything, or that he'd be speedblitzed, or that he's some weak feeb is underrating him.

Anyone whose putting him on The Ones' level is overrating him.

There's quite a large gap there...

Well when it comes to people overrating or underrating Vitiate, he's a very polarizing figure.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Anyone who assumes Vitiate needs a nexus and prep to do anything, or that he'd be speedblitzed, or that he's some weak feeb is underrating him.

Anyone whose putting him on The Ones' level is overrating him.

You're pretty much the last person in this Star wars subforum that should be talking about underrating/overrating a character.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
They don't underrate Vitiate. They're overrating others.



I don't think I underestimate Vitiate, I'm happy to take his feats into account as long as I'm not debating against Neph or Legend, because yes I then turn full troll as I can't be assed to deal with the dark side god bull shit.

But yeh, the Talzin wank has been real recently. Other than that I can't remember many Vitiate topics.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You talking to FS or me?

You.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
They don't underrate Vitiate. They're overrating others.

Angel believes Vitiate needs prep to lift a finger, Stigma finds Vitiate blitz-able (if I remember correctly,) and Selenial finds ROTS Sidious and beings of that level capable of slaughterhousing Vitiate. There's some obvious underration/misinterpretation/laemness occurring here.

I do wonder, if we wiped Neph and Legends posts from the pages of history, would this poll be conpletely reversed?

Or would there not be any blatant underestimation, as most of that was birthed from their ridiculous wankery...

I guess we'll never know.

Originally posted by psmith81992
I didn't say it's invalid to dock points. I said that even as a ritual, what Vitiate did was still more impressive than what Sidious did in my opinion.

That's fine. But you took umbrage with those caveats and I'm simply explaining why people typically aren't as impressed by such things, right or wrong.

Originally posted by psmith81992
I've ready very little from Legend but I do know S66 has been here for years spouting the same nonsense.

So has LeGenD. And it's not like Vitiate wank is anything brand new, either.

Originally posted by psmith81992
There was no "requirement". That was how many were used, whether by choice or not. Just like the entire Jedi that came before Brand were not "required" to hold Sidious' spirit, just how many were used.

Then let's say "involved."

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You.



Angel believes Vitiate needs prep to lift a finger, Stigma finds Vitiate blitz-able (if I remember correctly,) and Selenial finds ROTS Sidious and beings of that level capable of slaughterhousing Vitiate. There's some obvious underration/misinterpretation/laemness occurring here.

When have I ever said Slaughterhouse?

Sidious would beat him, I don't ever remember saying Slaughterhouse because that simply isn't true.

Unless the phrase "One tier" or "Dark side god" had been muttered earlier in the thread, in which case I can believe id say that.

I'm very sure you stated that Talzin on Dathomir would wreckslaughterhouslolfest Vitiate because she matched Palpatine.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I'm very sure you stated that Talzin on Dathomir would wreckslaughterhouslolfest Vitiate because she matched Palpatine.

Yes, I did.

Did you not notice Legends presence however?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's fine. But you took umbrage with those caveats and I'm simply explaining why people typically aren't as impressed by such things, right or wrong.



So has LeGenD. And it's not like Vitiate wank is anything brand new, either.



Then let's say "involved."


Your covert Vitiate wank hasn't escaped unnoticed

Ok so? He "involved" 8,000 sith lords, destroyed everything on the planet within 10 days, removed the force, and became immortal. Meanwhile Sidious drained the inhabitants of Byss and did exactly what?

Originally posted by Selenial
Yes, I did.

Did you not notice Legends presence however?

Yes, but you reaffirmed your position towards me, not LeGenD. I can provide 3-4 quotes of your laemness.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Ok so? He "involved" 8,000 sith lords, destroyed everything on the planet within 10 days, removed the force, and became immortal. Meanwhile Sidious drained the inhabitants of Byss and did exactly what?

Created a vast energy pool to sustain his dark side experiments {Book of Sith}.

Originally posted by Selenial
I do wonder, if we wiped Neph and Legends posts from the pages of history, would this poll be conpletely reversed?

Or would there not be any blatant underestimation, as most of that was birthed from their ridiculous wankery...

I guess we'll never know.

My "ridiculous wankery" is that I put him in the top 5 Sith, don't think he can be easily speedblitzed and put him on the same tier as Sidious. Terribly unreasonable, I know.

Originally posted by Nephthys
My "ridiculous wankery" is that I put him in the top 5 Sith, don't think he can be easily speedblitzed and put him on the same tier as Sidious. Terribly unreasonable, I know.

You have put him higher than Sidious before, as I recall.

The character is severely underrated from HoT to Sidious.

He was far more powerful than both.

Well, not DE Sidious, they were actually more or less peers in terms of power level.

Consider, DE Sidious has Force storms, yet Vitiate has more abilities overall. Vitiate is to DE Sidious as Dooku is to Malgus IMHO.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yes, but you reaffirmed your position towards me, not LeGenD. I can provide 3-4 quotes of your laemness.

Do not mistake me, I believe Talzin would beat Vitiate when she's at full strength on Dathomir. She has better one on one lighting, her force barriers are some of the most impressive we've ever seen. She can dominate Dooku which honestly makes me doubt Vitiate could TP her, since his best feats (Children, Voice etcetera) were all rituals and took weeks, sometimes years, to turn into effect. You cannot TK dust, and her teleportation allows her a quick entry into blade combat unlike how Revan started. That's an area vitiate is weak in.
Lastly with Maul and Savage there for her to draw strength off, Any powerful attacks Vitiate can conjure she can repel.

No it wouldn't be a slaughter, yes she'd have to work for it. The only reason I said slaughter was that Neph and Legend lost their shit when I did...

Originally posted by Oneness
The character is severely underrated from HoT to Sidious.

He was far more powerful than both.

Well, not DE Sidious, they were actually more or less peers in terms of power level.

Consider, DE Sidious has Force storms, yet Vitiate has more abilities overall. Vitiate is to DE Sidious as Dooku is to Malgus IMHO.

More abilities overall?

Didn't Sidious canonically master every Sith Art in existence?

Originally posted by Selenial
I do wonder, if we wiped Neph and Legends posts from the pages of history, would this poll be conpletely reversed?

Or would there not be any blatant underestimation, as most of that was birthed from their ridiculous wankery...

I guess we'll never know.
That's a good question. Hard to think without bias when someone compares hugging a lightsaber to palming one.

Ok, so here is where I say "so" again.

One became immortal using a ritual, the other one siphoned energy to perform lab experiments. How are those even comparable?

Originally posted by psmith81992
Ok, so here is where I say "so" again.

One became immortal using a ritual, the other one siphoned energy to perform lab experiments. How are those even comparable?

But, as you said earlier, they weren't going for the same thing.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Ok, so here is where I say "so" again.

One became immortal using a ritual, the other one siphoned energy to perform lab experiments. How are those even comparable?

One used a ritual to become immortal, the other survived through sheer force of will?

How about that?

{that's the danger of loaded questions, you two.}

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You have put him higher than Sidious before, as I recall.

In certain area's, yes. I doubt I've ever outright claimed Vitiate's fulll superiority in seriousness. I'm very careful never to state an order of strength between the top 5 Sith.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
But, as you said earlier, they weren't going for the same thing.

Yes, but you seem to believe that one is more impressive simply because there was no ritual or external aid involved..


Except that's not true. Sidious had no solution for immortality until he learned essence transfer.

Are you sure, Neph. Are you sure? uhuh

Originally posted by psmith81992
Yes, but you seem to believe that one is more impressive simply because there was no ritual or external aid involved..

I do. Planetary transformation on that scale? Also, you have to remember that Sidious not only systematically drained the inhabitants, he also mentally enslaved them. Twenty billion people.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Yes, but you seem to believe that one is more impressive simply because there was no ritual or external aid involved..


Except that's not true. Sidious had no solution for immortality until he learned essence transfer.

I'm genuinely confused why Essence transfer is less impressive.

Neph, what are your reasons for putting Vitiate as the best TP and best Lightning Wielder in the mythos?

Genuinely confused, because those two statements are why I think you wank him out of proportion greatly.