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Darth Nox, Dark Councillor, Keeper of Knowledge, Dark Lord of the Sith, Hier of Kallig, Successor of Tulak Hord takes on a guantlet to deem her true strength in the mythos:

1.Darth Malak
2.Darth Zannah
3.Darth Bane
4.Darth Marr
5.Darth Malgus
6.Darth Traya
7.Darth Vader
8.Exar Kun
9.Darth Caedus
10.Darth Plagueis

Arena: Dark Council Chamber

Rules:
1.Nox has her spirits.
2.100% rest & restore between rounds.
3.After each successful round Nox gains 10% prep, culminating at 100% should she make Round 10.
4.All opponents start from the entrance of the chamber with Nox starting on the very opposite side.
5.Nox must be permanently killed, not temporarily.

Stops at Bane. Then again I have a very high opinion of him, I would have placed him after Traya for example.

Got any argument for why? Bane is susceptible to top tier Force Lightning and Sorcery, not to mention he needs to permanently kill her.

Even so, should she get to Bane she has 20% preparation.

Probably 7 or 8. Definitely not taking 9 or 10.

Exar Kun has been able to destroy the spirit of Freedon Nadd but he would have to eliminate all four of them(five if you count the Voss mystic). Nox may well kill him before she becomes vulnerable to a permanent death.

Done at 5

4. Maybe makes it to 5.

They have to permanently kill her, meaning that her spirits must be incapacitated or destroyed, otherwise she ressurects.

Has she ever "resurrected" from having her head sliced off?

She tanked a Force Storm without a Force Barrier from a Dark Councillor such as Darth Thanaton whom earlier in life killed Exal Kressh a very powerful Force User. This being shortly before she dominates him completely and all but kilks him.

She survived her power overloading as well as explosions, due to spirit revival.
Besides she is far from a weak duelist, she managed to kill Lord Paladius, considered a great duelist without her connection to the Force.

Not to mention defeating the Force Resistant Khem Val in direct combat as an acolyte with a training saber, this being the same Khem Val that along with Tulak Hord defeated a Jedi army 1,000 strong.

Cool. And Malgus was either using the force to knock around Nox, Wrath and co or HoT and Co.

Game Mechanics are not something I debate, however the novels make it clear that Malgus was overwhelmed and knocked into the shaft of his space station before it exploded.

Zannah might have a shot if she disrupts Nox's control of the ghosts through mental attacks and sorcery. From there it's conceivable she can use something from Revan or Nadd's holocron to put her down for good.

Barring that, uh, idk. Kun I suppose.

On Voss she showed an iron will that even powerful entities and spirits could not surpass.

Exar Kun may win if he can destroy all five spirits without dying first.

I said might. Nox has excellent telepathy (some of the best in the mythos actually) and a strong will. But I still don't see it as outside of Zannah's capabilities to overcome her with mental attacks, particularly that exploit past trauma's and instabilities which Nox definitely has and with the ghosts as further mental pressures.

I think you're forgetting that Nox is very much vulnerable after she dies. She doesn't just immediately get back up. If Kun strikes her down he'd have the opportunity to take out the ghosts. Thanaton seemed confident he could make it permanent if he'd beaten her in the final battle.

Darth Zannah has overcome Darth Bane with telepathy, which is impressive given his treatment of Lord Kaan. However, Darth Nox has cosistently surpassed mental attacks that even other Sith Lords have been mentally devastated by. This occurs throughout her storyline, with Voss simply being a culmination of that.

Let us not ignore the fact that Darth Nox is after all in full command of the pyramid of knowledge and secrets, very few Sith are going to surpass that level of knowledge.

Darth Thanaton killed her with a Force Lightning Storm and she almost immediately got backup(You can see the spirits appear in my signature, signifying her revival).

That assumes however that Exar Kun didn't destroy Freedon Nadd because of Nadd's lack of an anchor to the corporeal realm.

Regardless Kun has a very good chance.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Game Mechanics are not something I debate, however the novels make it clear that Malgus was overwhelmed and knocked into the shaft of his space station before it exploded.

It's in a cutscene actually.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Darth Zannah has overcome Darth Bane with telepathy, which is impressive given his treatment of Lord Kaan. However, Darth Nox has cosistently surpassed mental attacks that even other Sith Lords have been mentally devastated by. This occurs throughout her storyline, with Voss simply being a culmination of that.

Let us not ignore the fact that Darth Nox is after all in full command of the pyramid of knowledge and secrets, very few Sith are going to surpass that level of knowledge.

Darth Thanaton killed her with a Force Lightning Storm and she almost immediately got backup(You can see the spirits appear in my signature, signifying her revival).

That assumes however that Exar Kun didn't destroy Freedon Nadd because of Nadd's lack of an anchor to the corporeal realm.

Regardless Kun has a very good chance.

The Dread Master's also offer her a chance to join them, so yes she is very strong mentally. I just think it's a distinct possibility that Zannah's mental attacks will be effective given how they work. Remember, she doesn't actually use telepathy, but rather a sorcerous equivalent. It works differently.

Freedon Nadd and Revan being among those who likely do though. Both of whose holocron's Zannah had access to.

I don't believe that's what happened. She didn't die, she just tanked it. In previous fights with Thanaton, she blacks out when she dies and takes a while to recover.

Well there's definitely a way to kill or strip the ghosts, and Kun's method seems the best. He's also demonstrated attacks that directly affect the soul and shit.

Given Darth Nox is demonstratively one of the most accomplished Sorcerors of all time I'm not syre that it being a sorcery attack is a benefit here.

The knowledge of the Sith Empire includes actual texts/holocrons from the entire history of the old Sith Empire and it's knowledge. Not to mention full knowledge of Korriban, Malachor V, Malachor III, Ziost and planets all across Sith space and better yet the entirety of the Imperial Reclamation Service's vast system.

On max settings Nox gradually collapses before standing right back up and her spirits appear, signifying her resurrection by said spirits. Not to mention FX effects unique to the previous death. It is also telling that the Secret of the Darkest Stars quest states that Nox has died twice.

Gameplay mechanics.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Given Darth Nox is demonstratively one of the most accomplished Sorcerors of all time I'm not syre that it being a sorcery attack is a benefit here.

The knowledge of the Sith Empire includes actual texts/holocrons from the entire history of the old Sith Empire and it's knowledge. Not to mention full knowledge of Korriban, Malachor V, Malachor III, Ziost and planets all across Sith space and better yet the entirety of the Imperial Reclamation Service's vast system.

On max settings Nox gradually collapses before standing right back up and her spirits appear, signifying her resurrection by said spirits. Not to mention FX effects unique to the previous death. It is also telling that the Secret of the Darkest Stars quest states that Nox has died twice.

So is Zannah. And her attack seems well suited to affecting Nox, given her trauma as a slave and with the ghosts, probable insanity and the pressure of the ghosts who would undoubtedly help Zannah's efforts. That said, I just remembered something so I'll probably drop the point before someone else does as well.

Yeah, and how long has Nox had to study all of that? In the middle of a war? I doubt her knowledge is that extensive. Plus Nadd is stated to have knowledge of all force techniques, even those lost to others.

After checking, it loos like she just hunches over. I can't see her collapsing at all. Also the FX just looks like Nox tapping into the ghosts, not dying. When she resurrects at the start of Act II she just stands up normally. Also she died when the ghosts overloaded her?

Cutscenes are not gameplay mechanics.

Darth Nox has had months if not years, this is confirmed in SWTOR:E.

She collapses, I just finished Act 3 on max settings and she clearly dies before standing up immediately. The purple effects are the same as that which are displayed in the cutscene after her first death.

Edit: NVM, read your post wrong.

Yes it does, both of the times she dies are during cutscenes.

How can that be confirmed in Swtor:E? The thing only goes up to the end of the games release aka when Malgus dies. How can that take place years after Nox becomes a Dark Council member?

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8.40. I can't see shit about her collapsing. She rises into the air, gets dropped to the ground causing her to hunch a bit before straightening. No collapsing.

Oh sorry I meant Annihilation, there are considerable time leaps between act 3 and the content following it. Almost as if there are months between each major arc.

Hm strange, because I remember specifically that she glows purple and drops to her knees before she stands up and the eyes flash.

Plus Secret of the Darkest Stars makes specific note of two deaths.

Originally posted by AncientPower
They have to permanently kill her, meaning that her spirits must be incapacitated or destroyed, otherwise she ressurects.
No. S/he just has to die. Otherwise, Kraut would never be used here.

Stops at 5.

This is my thread and the rules I use in it apply. Besides immortality is far from her only strength.

We transcend your rules.

This isn't really a guantlet in the first place, I am simply trying to place Darth Nox on an appropriate tier of power, with all of her bag of tricks and such included.

That's the point of a gauntlet, yeah. The weird rules are weird, though.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Oh sorry I meant Annihilation, there are considerable time leaps between act 3 and the content following it. Almost as if there are months between each major arc.

Hm strange, because I remember specifically that she glows purple and drops to her knees before she stands up and the eyes flash.

Plus Secret of the Darkest Stars makes specific note of two deaths.

That's fair but Nox didn't really appear in Annihilation so I'm not really sure how viable that is. The timeline somewhat escapes me tbh. Besides which, Nox has nothing that Thanaton didn't have and what they have is still lesser than Zannah's knowledge base and time to master it. A few years is nothing to a few decades.

It's possible Bioware tweaked the cutscene, but maybe you're just misremembering. It happens pretty quick and it's super hard to see.

I thought she died when she blew up at the end of Act 2, the ghosts mention it as I recall.

Also I wonder if anyone can guess what I remembered. Bet no-one will.

There appear to be significant events we here very little mention of in-game inbetween acts and they take between weeks and months. Oh and Thanaton didn't have quite the resources Nox had, he did not have the Reclamation Service so readily. Not to mention Darth Thanaton had very different goals.

Besides all that Jedi Shadows destroyed massive stores of knowledge that regardless of how large Bane's library was, was evidently destroyed. I mean even Sidious' store was from his own admission far from complete.

I did the act III ending last night.

Indeed she has died twice and been changed by the Mother Machine, this is referenced by the Secret of the Darkest Stars questline. She is a uniquely powerful Dark Lord and assuming Dark Side choices has now taken the steps to eternal life and youth.

Originally posted by AncientPower
There appear to be significant events we here very little mention of in-game inbetween acts and they take between weeks and months. Oh and Thanaton didn't have quite the resources Nox had, he did not have the Reclamation Service so readily. Not to mention Darth Thanaton had very different goals.

Besides all that Jedi Shadows destroyed massive stores of knowledge that regardless of how large Bane's library was, was evidently destroyed. I mean even Sidious' store was from his own admission far from complete.

I did the act III ending last night.

Indeed she has died twice and been changed by the Mother Machine, this is referenced by the Secret of the Darkest Stars questline. She is a uniquely powerful Dark Lord and assuming Dark Side choices has now taken the steps to eternal life and youth.

Ok, that's all fair. But I'm still not seeing Nox having the same grasp of sorcery and darkside knowledge that Zannah does though.

Bane and Zannah's knowledge comes directly from the sources themselves, not any libraries or stores of knowledge. Revan, Nadd and Belia Darzu's (and Andeddu's?) holocrons were all theirs to peruse. I remind you that Nadd was said to possess knowledge of all force techniques.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/990x450q90/160/naddzo3.png

Naturally this source is unlikely to be accurate with regards to info he literally couldn't possess, like techniques created within Vitiate's Empire or after his death. But other than that his info should surpass what Nox has access to significantly.

Well, I don't know what to say mate, the video is right there. :shrug:

Yeah, Nox is definitely one of the most OP characters in Star Wars and one of the most successful Sith Lords ever. Its only a few people with specific skills available to them who can beat her really.

I would say their knowledge probably balances out, missing pieces of a whole as it were. Eh i found a pretty big loophole concerning the TOTJ Companion in that it ignores the fact Nadd lost a shit ton of knowledge in his return to Onderon.

They are both master sorcerors, though I would say Nox seems to have more raw power if not significantly more and much greater displays with sorcery itself.

I would guess Bioware edited the scenes because of how much 2.9/3.0 redesigned a ton of the ability FX in-game.

What I was hoping we can concur on, Nox really seems to have played it all exceptionally well. If she isn't the most powerful in the current Empire already I'd be surprised.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I would say their knowledge probably balances out, missing pieces of a whole as it were. Eh i found a pretty big loophole concerning the TOTJ Companion in that it ignores the fact Nadd lost a shit ton of knowledge in his return to Onderon.

They are both master sorcerors, though I would say Nox seems to have more raw power if not significantly more and much greater displays with sorcery itself.

I would guess Bioware edited the scenes because of how much 2.9/3.0 redesigned a ton of the ability FX in-game.

What I was hoping we can concur on, Nox really seems to have played it all exceptionally well. If she isn't the most powerful in the current Empire already I'd be surprised.

Wouldn't be still know it himself though? And thus still be able to record it in his holocron on Onderon? Besides which is Revan. I highly doubt Nox is more knowledgeable than him myself.

That's your opinion I guess. I personally see Zannah as having more power but that's just crazy old me. And tbh Nox doesn't really use sorcery that much outside of rituals. Not much in the way of combat displays iirc.

Yeah, we'd need to see a recent video though to compare.

I'm still amazed that ares can put Marr above Nox, considering how immensely powerful she is and her feats in comparison to him getting clowned by Revan. Nox has an incredible will to power that's lead her to being an amazingly skilled, unnaturally powerful Sith who treats even dudes like Thanaton like fodder and is on the cusp of immortality and invincibility. Nox is underrated imo.

Well I won't ruin a nice ending to a nice debate so I'll simply tip my hat and say good day.

You think pretty much every TOR character is underrated TBH. As for Marr, true he doesn't have the feats to compare but the fact that he is ruining the Empire suggests his superiority.

Originally posted by ares834
You think pretty much every TOR character is underrated TBH. As for Marr, true he doesn't have the feats to compare but the fact that he is ruining the Empire suggests his superiority.

Because they usually are. Nox has some of the best skill feats in the Force (back-handing lightning, when deflecting it is supposedly meant to be nearly impossible in of itself), sabers (beating Khem as an acolyte, beating a Sith Lord without the Force, being as skilled in sabers as she is in the force + she has Tulak Hord's essay on lightsaber forms) and has some of the most raw power of anyone because of her ghosts plus she's nearly unkillable. She should be getting mad respect.

That suggests seniority, not superiority.

Sith generally are led by the most powerful not the most experienced.

Politics and influence is also a big factor. Nox doesn't have enough influence over the Empire to make a bid for leadership. Plus she's just in charge of ancient knowledge and secrets, while Marr is in charge of defending the whole Empire. His influence is over basically everything. He's not officially in charge of the Empire I believe, he's merely seeing to his duties. He doesn't actually order Nox around iirc, just brings things to her attention and suggests she problem solve for the Empire.

They do which is why I merely used the word "suggests" and why I didn't actually argue it as fact.

The WEG power levels are a little skewed. That Freedon is only a single step behind DE Sidious. (15/17/15, with 13 of lightsaber)

Originally posted by ares834
They do which is why I merely used the word "suggests" and why I didn't actually argue it as fact.

Don't be so reasonable, you're making me look like a douche.

But Neph, you are a douche.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzdh6iT5RK1qgw5opo1_500.png

Originally posted by ares834
You think pretty much every TOR character is underrated TBH. As for Marr, true he doesn't have the feats to compare but the fact that he is ruining the Empire suggests his superiority.

He is dying and growing weaker every day, if the Revan fight hasn't sped that up considerably then I would be very surprised. Nox is most certainly more powerful.

Darth Nox is stupendously powerful. Anybody thinking otherwise, needs to play SWTOR Sith Inquisitor story and read SWTOR(E).

Darth Thanaton, depicted in the SWTOR, is far more powerful then he had been earlier when he fought Exal Kressh. He is among the champions of the Empire and one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history, during his prime. He also have considerable powerbase.

Darth Nox fought Darth Thanaton 3 times and won only in the final confrontation. This too, after acquiring unprecedented power which involves multiple Force Ghosts and augmentation of the body.

I don't think that people realize the gravity of this development but Darth Nox might be the most powerful being in the galaxy barring Emperor.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Darth Nox, Dark Councillor, Keeper of Knowledge, Dark Lord of the Sith, Hier of Kallig, Successor of Tulak Hord takes on a guantlet to deem her true strength in the mythos:

1.Darth Malak
2.Darth Zannah
3.Darth Bane
4.Darth Marr
5.Darth Malgus
6.Darth Traya
7.Darth Vader
8.Exar Kun
9.Darth Caedus
10.Darth Plagueis

Arena: Dark Council Chamber

Rules:
1.Nox has her spirits.
2.100% rest & restore between rounds.
3.After each successful round Nox gains 10% prep, culminating at 100% should she make Round 10.
4.All opponents start from the entrance of the chamber with Nox starting on the very opposite side.
5.Nox must be permanently killed, not temporarily.

Don't know.... I don't know if malak can debuff the ghost bonus...
Don't know, don't know.
Win.
Satelmate.
Win
Win.
And after get crushed over and over.

There is Revan however.

Originally posted by AncientPower
He is dying and growing weaker every day, if the Revan fight hasn't sped that up considerably then I would be very surprised. Nox is most certainly more powerful.
Revan Darth Revan.. I mean KotOR Darth Revan is as powerfull than 3.0 Revan and peharps more (Darth Revan in KotOR version can already channel light and dark side energy like the ToR novel version.)
And more danegrous I think....
If You put Nox aginst Revan KotOR Revan it will be an epic fight... With a lot of force storming etc....