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So apparently none of Obama Administration could make it to France after the violent rampage, but they can make it to Saudi..I find this deeply disturbing in many ways. I know everyone here will bounce all over this and say "well this is the reason." However before you do. Think about this for a minute. Then respond.

It's deeply disturbing.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/01/25/obama-closes-anwr-enroute-to-saudi-arabia/

Dat geopolitical stability, man. Makes the world go round. You don't want our gas prices to go higher, do you?

If I were president, I don't think I would travel much. I think I would visit poor neighborhoods and schools. I would visit areas dense with homelessness. That's probably because I think the President of the United States has a much bigger duty to the American people and not foreign nations. For the France attack, I would have my office send a care package to the families affected and make a public speech about the sorrow I felt for our French allies going through a tough time. I would then remind the US that France was there for us during our major terror event (9/11) and extend an intelligence offer to France (this would be for show because France does not need to learn how to collect terrorist cell information because they already know how to do that but it is the public gesture that is important).

I most certainly wouldn't be visiting Saudi Arabia. And I DEFINITELY wouldn't take another vacation to play golf.

Originally posted by dadudemon
If I were president, I don't think I would travel much. I think I would visit poor neighborhoods and schools. I would visit areas dense with homelessness. That's probably because I think the President of the United States has a much bigger duty to the American people and not foreign nations. For the France attack, I would have my office send a care package to the families affected and make a public speech about the sorrow I felt for our French allies going through a tough time. I would then remind the US that France was there for us during our major terror event (9/11) and extend an intelligence offer to France (this would be for show because France does not need to learn how to collect terrorist cell information because they already know how to do that but it is the public gesture that is important).

I most certainly wouldn't be visiting Saudi Arabia. And I DEFINITELY wouldn't take another vacation to play golf.
I feel like Obama shouldn't need to take vacations to play golf.

It takes an hour at most to prepare for a game of golf, and there are courses literally everywhere these days.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Dat geopolitical stability, man. Makes the world go round. You don't want our gas prices to go higher, do you?

This is where Obama has you fooled. He didn't do anything to lower has prices. Saudi has been over producing oil in mass quantities to force US oil business out of business. They are doing this to hurt US, cheaper at the pump does not mean anything but a fools short sighted dream of "man I remeber these has prices when I was younger!"

Play now. Pay later.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I feel like Obama shouldn't need to take vacations to play golf.

It takes an hour at most to prepare for a game of golf, and there are courses literally everywhere these days.

Considering this prediceny has cost the tax payers more money for his personal vacations and golf trips, I don't see it stopping till he loses his FDIC credit card in 2017.

Also interesting to see how this administration is all about protecting and observing other people's cultures and traditions.

Except the leader of the free world wife refuses to respect the country's traditions in which they are visiting.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/01/28/make-no-mistake-michelle-obama-just-made-a-bold-political-statement-in-saudi-arabia/

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Also interesting to see how this administration is all about protecting and observing other people's cultures and traditions.

Except the leader of the free world wife refuses to respect the country's traditions in which they are visiting.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/01/28/make-no-mistake-michelle-obama-just-made-a-bold-political-statement-in-saudi-arabia/

Good. It's a tradition that deserves no respect.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Good. It's a tradition that deserves no respect. I hope a thousand Saudi politicians committed suicide after seeing her.

Anyway, I couldn't give a shit about Obama snubbing the march in France- attending it would have been beneath us anyway -but the visit to Saudi Arabia bugs me too, only because Saudi culture is whack af and America bro'ing it up with them contradicts every human rights principle we represent.

One can only hope that Obama's true goal for going over there was to take their new leader into a back room and let him know that shit's gotta change. I doubt it though.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
I hope a thousand Saudi politicians committed suicide after seeing her.

Anyway, I couldn't give a shit about Obama snubbing the march in France- attending it would have been beneath us anyway -but the visit to Saudi Arabia bugs me too, only because Saudi culture is whack af and America bro'ing it up with them contradicts every human rights principle we represent.

One can only hope that Obama's true goal for going over there was to take their new leader into a back room and let him know that shit's gotta change. I doubt it though.

Everytime Obama has gone over there before he has done a low bow to the King. It's odd that he does a deep bow to them while Michelle disregards their culture. It's like they are on different pages sending different messages. The only thing we went over there for is PR. Nothing is going to change for anyone on either side.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Everytime Obama has gone over there before he has done a low bow to the King. It's odd that he does a deep bow to them while Michelle disregards their culture. It's like they are on different pages sending different messages. The only thing we went over there for is PR. Nothing is going to change for anyone on either side.
Maybe because one is a silly tradition that doesn't do much harm while the other is a silly tradition that unfairly limits the potential and inconveniences half of the society's population?

Don't act like you wouldn't be complaining if she HAD worn the headscarf.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Maybe because one is a silly tradition that doesn't do much harm while the other is a silly tradition that unfairly limits the potential and inconveniences half of the society's population?

Don't act like you wouldn't be complaining if she HAD worn the headscarf.

Sends the wrong message to be bowing to a foreign power. I wouldn't care less if Michelle had worn something.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Sends the wrong message to be bowing to a foreign power. I wouldn't care less if Michelle had worn something.
Bowing to a foreign head of state if bowing is a custom for the office of that head of state is a diplomatic norm. It sends the message that Obama is polite.

Wait, so you admit that your complaint is pointless then?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Bowing to a foreign head of state if bowing is a custom for the office of that head of state is a diplomatic norm. It sends the message that Obama is polite.

Wait, so you admit that your complaint is pointless then?

I'd be okay with observing their customs if they observed mine. My greeting custom of respect is bumping knuckles. Seriously. I only do that with people I either respect or like.

So I would bow to him but I would have sent directions ahead indicating that I would be greatly offended if the King did not greet me with something that made me comfortable. If he refused, I would say that he has highly insulted me because you NEVER leave a bro hanging like that.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Bowing to a foreign head of state if bowing is a custom for the office of that head of state is a diplomatic norm. It sends the message that Obama is polite.

Wait, so you admit that your complaint is pointless then?

Obama almost gets on his knees in his bows to the King. There is difference then a polite gesture and being submissive. Quit being a smartass. We merely having a discussion.

Obama's gonna beg the Saudi king to stop overproducing oil, and raise the prices.

Too bad the Mid East don't give a damn about recession/inflation.

Oil prices in UAE virtually never changed since '93 when I first came there. It was and still is at 48 fils (13 US cents).

13 cents US for a gallon?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
13 cents US for a gallon?
Per liter.
UAE uses the Metric system.

That's Premium fuel.
Diesel and unleaded are much cheaper.

Diplomacy, like politeness, like API design should follow the robustness principle. "Be conservative in what you do, and liberal in what you accept."

For as much as Obama has been inpolite to many other heads of state and acts Superior, bowing to the King seems odd. Does he see himself below the King but above other heads of states? Since the official title of the King of Saudi Arabia is "The Protector of Mecca and Medina" and since Obama is a Muslim he would be submissive to him but not submissive to any other head of state.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
and since Obama is a Muslim

laughcry

He's a Christian with a Muslim name.

So someone who was raised Muslim and has worshiped in Muslim churches and who's father was Muslim and had said "the call to prayer is the prettiest sound there is" is Christian?

Right...

He has always been Muslim

So the point of this thread is "Obama is a Muslim"?

Originally posted by Robtard
So the point of this thread is "Obama is a Muslim"?

No that's just how it ended up but we can still be friends

I'm not Catholic.

But I was born into an Italian Family, I am probably baptized Catholic, my father's family is Catholic, and I have an Italian-ish name.


But I'm not Catholic. I'm Mormon.


This is why, if Obama says he's a Christian, I just have to take his word for it. I am glad he has some sort of religion, however, because I can use his religion against him if he does something not morally acceptable according to his beliefs.

So, yeah, what about drone strikes is "turning the other cheek"?

How are warrantless spying programs on innocent American people living in accordance with "humbleness and love"?

And how is lying about stuff you'll do (and then doing the opposite) a Christ-like behavior? At least he should have the integrity to admit he made up lots of shit he knew he could not keep just so he could get elected. I'd respect him more if he admitted that.

I wanted to make it clear that I agree with TE on many of his political stances. I don't agree with some of his reasoning to get there such as "Obama is a liar. Part of that reason is because he said he's a Christian but he's a Muslim." That's not a reason I would use but I do agree with liar part.

Capsico?

We get it already, you're Italian and they had it rough

Let's be real here.

Obama has never attended Christian church once since being in office. The only church that we do know he attended was Jerimiah Wrights "God damn America church"

For public standpoint of coarse he has to say he's Christian. However what sort of "Christan" is he? Is he catholic? Babtist? If he is Christian, where are his Christian values? How does one go from full blown Muslim upbringing to one one day "Im Christian."

How about this. Everyone here knows Im not Muslim. Well guess what people?? Now I am Muslim! Do you belive me? And if you don't why not?

That was an easy conversion!

Originally posted by Robtard
We get it already, you're Italian and they had it rough

You're just jealous because the whole bus cheered for me.

Enjoy praising Allah. I'm just going to be over here eating the BLT you aren't allowed to have

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Let's be real here.

Obama has never attended Christian church once since being in office. The only church that we do know he attended was Jerimiah Wrights "God damn America church"

For public standpoint of coarse he has to say he's Christian. However what sort of "Christan" is he? Is he catholic? Babtist? If he is Christian, where are his Christian values? How does one go from full blown Muslim upbringing to one one day "Im Christian."

How about this. Everyone here knows Im not Muslim. Well guess what people?? Now I am Muslim! Do you belive me? And if you don't why not?

That was an easy conversion!

-My mother who has been a devote Catholic since childhood hasn't attended in nearly 20 years now; she's still a Catholic

-IIRC, his church (Trinity Church) is similar to Baptist, but he was raised is a very religious diverse environment due to his mother. He isn't beating down people with the Bible like some far right nutter, but that doesn't mean he's not a Christian. What makes a Christian anyways, accepting the Jesus as your savior? How do you know he doesn't?

-Because you're obviously lying

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
So someone who was raised Muslim and has worshiped in Muslim churches and who's father was Muslim and had said "the call to prayer is the prettiest sound there is" is Christian?

Right...

He has always been Muslim

So begins the stream of stupidity.

Originally posted by BackFire
So begins the stream of stupidity.

Lol "no you!"

There is no disputing the facts he was born to Muslim father, was raised in Indonesia and went to Muslim school and to Mosque. How is he Christian? Because he said he is? Lol I forgot he is a truth teller.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
There is no disputing the facts he was born to Muslim father, was raised in Indonesia and went to Muslim school and to Mosque. How is he Christian? Because he said he is? Lol I forgot he is a truth teller.

Well then, what does one need to be a Christian?

My mom and dad are catholic, I was raised catholic, does that mean I am inherently a catholic even though I say I'm not?

My parents also don't go to church but still believe in Christ and still consider themselves catholic, does that mean they are not?

So you say Obama hasn't been to a Christian church since taking office. I have no idea if that's true, or just you chimpily mouthing something that you heard some other stupid person say. He also hasn't gone to a mosque since being in office. So by your own reasoning, he must not be a muslim.

Originally posted by Robtard
Well then, what does one need to be a Christian?

Not being Muslim. It's two seperate and completly different ideologies and beliefs.

Originally posted by BackFire
My mom and dad are catholic, I was raised catholic, does that mean I am inherently a catholic even though I say I'm not?

My parents also don't go to church but still believe in Christ and still consider themselves catholic, does that mean they are not?

So you say Obama hasn't been to a Christian church since taking office. I have no idea if that's true, or just you chimpily mouthing something that you heard some other stupid person say. He also hasn't gone to a mosque since being in office. So by your own reasoning, he must not be a muslim.

Being raised Muslim and converting to Christiany is completly different then your parents being Catholic and you not being. That's completly different and you know it.

Google says that Obama has been to church six times from 2008 to 2011. Didn't bother digging deeper, but I'm glad we could debunk that very important matter

Why is that different?

Also, why do you say that he was raised a muslim? He primarily grew up with his Christian mother and grandmother.

And what about my other points?

Please address this - "So you say Obama hasn't been to a Christian church since taking office. I have no idea if that's true, or just you chimpily mouthing something that you heard some other stupid person say. He also hasn't gone to a mosque since being in office. So by your own reasoning, he must not be a muslim."

Originally posted by Robtard
Google says that Obama has been to church six times from 2008 to 2011. Didn't bother digging deeper.

Lol damn if good says it, it must be true

Those are all the times he been to church for ceremonial functions funerals and events. Bush went to church every Sunday. I think it's a little different

Originally posted by BackFire
Why is that different?

Also, why do you say that he was raised a muslim? He primarily grew up with his Christian mother and grandmother.

And what about my other points?

Please address this - "So you say Obama hasn't been to a Christian church since taking office. I have no idea if that's true, or just you chimpily mouthing something that you heard some other stupid person say. He also hasn't gone to a mosque since being in office. So by your own reasoning, he must not be a muslim."

How was when he attended school in Indonesia?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Lol damn if good says it, it must be true

Those are all the times he been to church for ceremonial functions funerals and events. Bush went to church every Sunday. I think it's a little different

Well there's pictures of him inside a church, so yes, it is likely true, unless there's some conspiracy to make it seem like Obama (who has stated he's a mild church goer) has been in a Church since taking on the mantle of POTUS

So the goal post has now been moved to: "he doesn't pray inside a church every Sunday"? OK, he doesn't. So?

And what about when he attended non muslim school here, and lived here without practicing Islam? And lived for most of his childhood with his mom and grandma? All that gets ignored because he went to a muslim school for a bit and because he hasn't joined a church since becoming president?

Ok let's compare a person who claims to be Christian vs a actual Church attending Christian like his predicessor who attended church every Sunday. I remember Bush talking about God quiet a bit and that his faith was a big part of his life. I don't rememeber him going go Saudi Arabia and bowing before the King and the "protector of Mecca."

If Obama was Christian he would not be bowing before the protector of Mecca.

Originally posted by BackFire
And what about when he attended non muslim school here, and lived here without practicing Islam? And lived for most of his childhood with his mom and grandma? All that gets ignored because he went to a muslim school for a bit and because he hasn't joined a church since becoming president?

You are aware that when you are indoctrinated into Islam it's for life?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Ok let's compare a person who claims to be Christian vs a actual Church attending Christian like his predicessor who attended church every Sunday. I remember Bush talking about God quiet a bit and that his faith was a big part of his life. I don't rememeber him going go Saudi Arabia and bowing before the King and the "protector of Mecca."

If Obama was Christian he would not be bowing before the protector of Mecca.

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp277/StraightTalkingPoint/front1454177.jpg

Is Bush a secret homosexual?

https://my2bucks.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/bush-saudi-hand-holding-1.jpg

Originally posted by Robtard
http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp277/StraightTalkingPoint/front1454177.jpg

He is clearly receiving an award that is being put around his neck..

I see, so he's muslim because he went to a muslim school for a bit when growing up, isn't part of a christian church right now, and bowed to a muslim. Checks out.

Still waiting for your response to this - "So you say Obama hasn't been to a Christian church since taking office. I have no idea if that's true, or just you chimpily mouthing something that you heard some other stupid person say. He also hasn't gone to a mosque since being in office. So by your own reasoning, he must not be a muslim."

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
You are aware that when you are indoctrinated into Islam it's for life?

Oh. So no one ever leaves Islam?

I did respond to that..

Did you? Where? I saw no direct response to that.

I said he has not been to church for anything other then cerimonal reasons, funerals and such.

If that does not answer you question, what are you asking?

I am asking why is it that, to you, him not going to a christian church since being president is evidence of him not being a christian. But you don't see the fact that he's not been to any mosque since being present as evidence of him not being a muslim.

Maybe he's got better things to do than sit in a large building for an hour listening to an old man ramble on about god.

Like anything else.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
He is clearly receiving an award that is being put around his neck..

He's receiving gifts of jewelry from a man and then frolicking around holding hands with him, ergo, this begs the question: "Is Bush a secret homosexual?"

Here it looks like they wanted to share a sweet kiss but stopped short due to cameras

http://www.gregpalast.com/wp-content/uploads/bushtheking.jpg

Originally posted by BackFire
I am asking why is it that, to you, him not going to a christian church since being president is evidence of him not being a christian. But you don't see the fact that he's not been to any mosque since being present as evidence of him not being a muslim.

For him to win elections in a country that is a Christian majority he would have or ne Christian. And we have neem at war with Islam for the past 30 years..do you really believe a outspoken Muslim could win the presidency.

Originally posted by Robtard
He's receiving gifts of jewelry from a man and then frolicking around holding hands with him, ergo, this begs the question: "Is Bush a secret homosexual?"

Lol.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
For him to win elections in a country that is a Christian majority he would have or ne Christian. And we have neem at war with Islam for the past 30 years..do you really believe a outspoken Muslim could win the presidency.

Do you believe an outspoken Buddhist, Atheist or even Agnostic could?

Ergo, we could easily conclude that Obama is one of those as well, using your reasoning

Originally posted by Robtard
Do you believe an outspoken Buddhist, Atheist or even Agnostic could?

Ergo, we could easily conclude that Obama is one of those as well, using your reasoning

Mott Romey could not even get elected cause he was Mormon. You think anyone of those could?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
For him to win elections in a country that is a Christian majority he would have or ne Christian. And we have neem at war with Islam for the past 30 years..do you really believe a outspoken Muslim could win the presidency.

I see. So he is a Muslim because:

His father was a muslim.

He went to a muslim school for a few years during childhood.

Isn't actively part of a christian church.

We are at war with Islam.

What about the fact that he was baptised christian in 1988? And was in a christian church for 10 years or so. Was he a muslim then, too? Or did he become more muslim when he became president and stopped going to that church? Was he still muslim when he was baptised?

Originally posted by BackFire
I see. So he is a Muslim because:

His father was a muslim.

He went to a muslim school for a few years during childhood.

Isn't actively part of a christian church.

We are at war with Islam.

What about the fact that he was baptised christian in 1988? And was in a christian church for 10 years or so. Was he a muslim then, too? Or did he become more muslim when he became president and stopped going to that church? Was he still muslim when he was baptised?

Yes actually he was. Babtised people don't believe in abortion or infanticide.

Do Muslims believe in abortion?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Mott Romey could not even get elected cause he was Mormon. You think anyone of those could?

The point was: Saying you're a Christian to become POTUS does not automatically mean you're a Muslim. Obama could very well be a lot of other things using your reasoning.

He could be a secret:

Agnostic
Atheist
Mormon
Shinto
Hindu
Sheikh
Buddhist
Zoroastrian

iirc, Obama was stated in an interview that due to his mother's wide religious interest, a Bible and Koran where on the same self as books about Greek, Norse and Egyptian mythology.

So could Obama secretly worship The Allfather? Answer: Yes

Originally posted by BackFire
Do Muslims believe in abortion?


You tell me.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
You tell me.

crylaugh

Originally posted by Robtard
The point was: Saying you're a Christian to become POTUS does not automatically mean you're a Muslim. Obama could very well be a lot of other things using your reasoning.

He could be a secret:

Agnostic
Atheist
Mormon
Shinto
Hindu
Sheikh
Buddhist
Zoroastrian

iirc, Obama was stated in an interview that due to his mother's wide religious interest, a Bible and Koran where on the same self as books about Greek, Norse and Egyptian mythology.

So could Obama secretly worship The Allfather? Answer: Yes

Man I can tell you will go to great lengths to defend him.

Well, Obama believes in abortion. And since he's clearly a muslim, I guess so. Right?

Can someone not be Christian and be pro choice? Is this an impossibility to you? If someone says they're Christian and is also pro choice, are they not actually a christian? Are they half christian? Are they not Christian at all? Are they lying? Or just delusional?

Originally posted by AbnormalButSane
crylaugh To be fair, I've suspected BF of secret Muslimcy for almost a decade now

Originally posted by BackFire
Well, Obama believes in abortion. And since he's clearly a muslim, I guess so. Right?

Can someone not be Christian and be pro choice? Is this an impossibility to you? If someone says they're Christian and is also pro choice, are they not actually a christian? Are they half christian? Are they not Christian at all? Are they lying? Or just delusional?

Abortion is one thing. Infanticide is clearly another..which is something he voted for and supported.

Of course I'd be attracted to the religion who has a pedophilic rapist as a prophet.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Abortion is one thing. Infanticide is clearly another..which is something he voted for and supported.

I see. However, according to Islam, abortion after 4 months is a sin. So if he's in favor of abortion after 4 months, he must not actually be a muslim, right?

He may be a muslim (deep down inside, whatever, idgaf), but the issue is that your reasoning for him being a Muslim is incredibly contradictory and illogical. Laughably so.

Originally posted by BackFire
I see. However, according to Islam, abortion after 4 months is a sin. So if he's in favor of abortion after 4 months, he must not actually be a muslim, right?

Hmm ok so then if he is not Muslim and he is not Christian he has lied to us all regardless.

Originally posted by AbnormalButSane
He may be a muslim (deep down inside, whatever, idgaf), but the issue is that your reasoning for him being a Muslim is incredibly contradictory and illogical. Laughably so.

Regardless the pont is what I said. If you think he is, why do you?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Regardless the pont is what I said. If you think he is, why do you?

I don't. I was throwing you a hypothetical if.

I hope he's an atheist personally.

Originally posted by AbnormalButSane
I don't. I was throwing you a hypothetical if.

I hope he's an atheist personally.

Why?

Originally posted by BackFire
My mom and dad are catholic, I was raised catholic, does that mean I am inherently a catholic even though I say I'm not?

Well, there are 2 ways to answer...

On the books, you're Catholic.

But if you say you aren't (and mean it), you're not. It's that simple.

Because I'd rather have a government leader that doesn't have ties to any one religion or religion at all.

He's probably agnostic if anything. srug

Originally posted by AbnormalButSane
Because I'd rather have a government leader that doesn't have ties to any one religion or religion at all.

He's probably agnostic if anything. srug

Ok but he said he was Christian.

Originally posted by AbnormalButSane
Maybe he's got better things to do than sit in a large building for an hour listening to an old man ramble on about god.

Like anything else.

http://i.imgur.com/oqx9CeQ.png

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Ok but he said he was Christian.

He might be. I just personally hope he's not. Just like how you personally hope he's a muslim for some reason.

He may have been a Muslim in his early life, but it has been documented that he converted to Christianity in his early adolescence, due to influence by the black American Christian community.

According to him, he was raised in a non-religious family, implying that his mother was an atheist (whom he oddly calls as 'the most spiritual person he has seen'). His father was a non-practicing Muslim (keyword: non-practicing).

He attends church in Evergreen Chapel in Camp David, albeit only seldom occasions.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
He may have been a Muslim in his early life, but it has been documented that he converted to Christianity in his early adolescence, due to influence by the black American Christian community.

According to him, he was raised in a non-religious family, implying that his mother was an atheist (whom he oddly calls as 'the most spiritual person he has seen'). His father was a non-practicing Muslim (keyword: non-practicing).

He attends church in Evergreen Chapel in Camp David, albeit only seldom occasions.

This all leads to only one reasonable conclusion - he's Muslim.

He attends a secret Chruch in which him and his family attends? That he supposedly attended 6 times? CMON man, your pretty smart, you don't find that a bit odd?

Originally posted by BackFire
This all leads to only one reasonable conclusion - he's Muslim.

Glad we agree. I can always count on you.

My grandfather was a very devout Christian that never went to church. He also was not a Muslim.

If God does exist, really doesn't care if you pray in an ornate box or not.

Sounds like he is not who he says he is.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Sounds like he is not who he says he is.

You do realize that church is not a requirement for the Christian faith?

Originally posted by AbnormalButSane
You do realize that church is not a requirement for the Christian faith?

To be a follwer of Christ one is supposed to take up the cross and follow in his footsteps. I see nothing Christ-like about Obama.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
To be a follwer of Christ one is supposed to take up the cross and follow in his footsteps. I see nothing Christ-like about Obama.

You just disqualified 99.999999% of Christians of their Christiandom

But I'm pretty sure one only need accept Jesus as his/her personal savior to be a Christian

Believe what you want, but you have no logical basis in your belief that he's a Muslim.
srug

Originally posted by Robtard
You just disqualified 99.999999% of Christian of their Christiandom

But I'm pretty sure one only need accept Jesus as his/her personal savior to be a Christian

QFT

Originally posted by Robtard
You just disqualified 99.999999% of Christians of their Christiandom

But I'm pretty sure one only need accept Jesus as his/her personal savior to be a Christian

Im glad you are a believer or know what it takes. However that's not the only thing.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Im glad you are a believer or know what it takes. However that's not the only thing.

Religious extremist?

Lmao, TI, are you also a birther?

Originally posted by AbnormalButSane
Religious extremist?

Like Jihad?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Like Jihad?

I don't know. You tell me.

I was born and raised as a Roman Catholic.
My parents are both devout Catholics, almost to the point of extremism (they even took a selfie of themselves with Pope Francis ON THE TV when he visited here in the Phils. Smh)
All of my relatives that I know are all Catholics.
I used to go to church every Sunday in my childhood years.

Now, am I a Catholic? No. I refuse to be a part of that congregation.
Though I pretend to be Catholic, since irreligious persons are viewed worse than Muslims in this part of the world.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Im glad you are a believer or know what it takes.

However that's not the only thing.

One doesn't need to be one to know.

Such as?

Let's be clear that Obama is only saying he's a Christian because he has to.

There's nothing, however, Christlike about killing thousands of innocent people, being a warmongerer, and being a liar.

Obama is clearly an immoral, warmongering, liar.

It doesn't matter if he calls himself a Christian. It says in the New Testament that not everyone who says "lord! lord!" will get into heaven. Meaning, you can say you're a Christian but if you don't act or think like a Christian, you're not a Christian. Really, the only thing required to be a Christian (other than obvious rites) are trying to be like Christ. Genuinely trying to be.



Here's the deal: I would respect Obama quite a bit more if he'd stop lying so much, stop pandering, and just be honest.

Just to make it clear, I never agreed or disagreed with TI's assessment.

The only way to really know the truth, is to force (ie. by torture) Obama to say his religious affiliation.

That would prove nothing, if you torture someone enough, they'll "admit" to whatever you want them to

Originally posted by Robtard
That would prove nothing, if you torture someone enough, they'll "admit" to whatever you want them to
Yeah you have to be careful not to be extreme.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Let's be clear that Obama is only saying he's a Christian because he has to.

There's nothing, however, Christlike about killing thousands of innocent people, being a warmongerer, and being a liar.

Obama is clearly an immoral, warmongering, liar.

It doesn't matter if he calls himself a Christian. It says in the New Testament that not everyone who says "lord! lord!" will get into heaven. Meaning, you can say you're a Christian but if you don't act or think like a Christian, you're not a Christian. Really, the only thing required to be a Christian (other than obvious rites) are trying to be like Christ. Genuinely trying to be.



Here's the deal: I would respect Obama quite a bit more if he'd stop lying so much, stop pandering, and just be honest.

Oh my god, if you think Obama is warmongering, what do you think of Bush ?haermm


How's he immoral? hmm

Oh wait, we flew planes into Kabul and started shit.

How quick people forget 9/11.

Unheard of!

Originally posted by dadudemon
Let's be clear that Obama is only saying he's a Christian because he has to.

There's nothing, however, Christlike about killing thousands of innocent people, being a warmongerer, and being a liar.

Obama is clearly an immoral, warmongering, liar.

It doesn't matter if he calls himself a Christian. It says in the New Testament that not everyone who says "lord! lord!" will get into heaven. Meaning, you can say you're a Christian but if you don't act or think like a Christian, you're not a Christian. Really, the only thing required to be a Christian (other than obvious rites) are trying to be like Christ. Genuinely trying to be.



Here's the deal: I would respect Obama quite a bit more if he'd stop lying so much, stop pandering, and just be honest.

If you're going to revoke someone's Christianity due to unchristian acts committed, then you've just revoked 99.99999999% of Christians

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Oh wait, we flew planes into Kabul and started shit.

How quick people forget 9/11.

Unheard of!

Neither Afghanistan nor Iraq attacked the US on September 11th 2001, but that didn't stop the US from going in and starting shit

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Oh wait, we flew planes into Kabul and started shit.

How quick people forget 9/11.

Unheard of!
He then sent more troops to Iraq.
Didn't finish the war in Afghanistan.

It wasn't until Obama took seat that Bin Laden was finished off for good.

Wait SH was moral by killing 500-600 thousand of his own people?

Obama killed an old man in retirement. Has it solved anything?

It gave me the warm fuzzies.

SH is a different story.
Bush (the US, in general) hated that person for some reason.

Yes, he was a tyrannical loonie. But so was Fidel Castro.
The point is, he kept the country in check.
The Iraqis are too disorganized and chaotic and lacked the proper education to rule over the country in a democratic way, just like other oppressed people from other countries like Cuba, African states and N. Korea.

He had to control the country with an iron fist.
When he got executed, look at how Iraq plunged into a hellhole.

Iraq invasion was a futile attempt of the US to take control of Iraqi resources.
The plan backfired, and now we have a deranged man who built a criminal empire with an ideology that won't simply fade away in due time.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Wait SH was moral by killing 500-600 thousand of his own people?

Obama killed an old man in retirement. Has it solved anything?

Obama accomplished what Bush couldn't when he ordered the death of Osama. That must have stung Georgie.

What did killing Osama accomplish?

So you'd rather have him alive?

Originally posted by Robtard
So you'd rather have him alive?

Considering Obama has now said and taken the stance that "The Taliban is not a terrorist organization, even though they conduct acts of terorism." Maybe Obama is growing soft. What kind of an idiot says such a stupid thing..

Originally posted by Robtard
If you're going to revoke someone's Christianity due to unchristian acts committed, then you've just revoked 99.99999999% of Christians


Closer to 65%, really.


Originally posted by AbnormalButSane
Oh my god, if you think Obama is warmongering, what do you think of Bush ?haermm


The same but somewhere between 2-3x worse. In Obama's defense (this was, originally, a point Robtard made to me), Obama was/is just fighting the wars that Bush started.

You haven't seen some my my anti-Bush rants in the GDF. You should definitely post here, more often, because your posts are definitely welcome/on point.


Originally posted by AbnormalButSane
How's he immoral? hmm

He's a politician that seems to be lying even worse than normal for a president. Considering the hope that he brought the voters and the world (and then he ended up being "more of Bush", that's pretty dang immoral.

Again, this is shit I have bitched about in the GDF quite a bit. Check this out to see where I'm coming from:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/


For me, some of the biggest promises (ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, closing Gitmo, ending the spying on the American people, a true universal healthcare system, energy independence, etc.) he broke. But his State of the Union seems to be scratching some itches. If Obama delivers on some of my bigger issues, I won't be so critical of his 2 terms.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Considering Obama has now said and taken the stance that "The Taliban is not a terrorist organization, even though they conduct acts of terorism." Maybe Obama is growing soft. What kind of an idiot says such a stupid thing.. So you'd rather have Osama alive?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Closer to 65%, really.

99.9999999% was not negotiable and you really can't believe that 35% of Christians don't ever lie, like never ever. This is also just one of many "not like Christ" acts to choose from.

Originally posted by Robtard
So you'd rather have Osama alive?

Impossible to know if killing Osama did anything to save American lives or American infrastructure. It wasn't a very Christian thing to do, obviously.


Personally.......askdflaksdjfa;lsdjfasd (<----This is frustration...I have always had a tough time with this one).


I dunno. This is a tough moral decision and I'm glad I am not Obama and had to make that choice. The irritated and "I want justice" part of me says it should have happened far sooner. The part that says, "you shouldn't kill people" says what we did was probably morally wrong.


Let's just conclude that my feelings are definitely not hurt that Osama is dead. It may be safer for American interests that he is dead, too, from a pragmatic perspective. We can't know that he retired from his terrorism, for sure (the opposite of that is true, as well: we can't know if he continued his terrorism or whether or not he would actually act on those).


Originally posted by Robtard
99.9999999% was not negotiable and you really can't believe that 35% of Christians don't ever lie, like never ever. This is also just one of many "not like Christ" acts to choose from.

You're either mistaken, didn't read my post and understand it, or just ribbing me.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and requote myself:

"Really, the only thing required to be a Christian (other than obvious rites) are trying to be like Christ. Genuinely trying to be."


In Christianity, one of the very basic and pervasive beliefs across almost all Christian religions is the notion that humans are flawed, imperfect, and WILL sin. The difference between the person who says "I am a Christian" and the person that is actually a Christian is the person that is trying to be a Christian. Emphasis on "genuinely trying."* If you're an intelligent person, know the Christian tenants and dogma, and knowingly transgress them, you are not really a Christian, are you? Since the New Testament specifically addresses a person doing this, it's not really a point of dogmatic debate and we don't need to discuss it. Does that make sense?

*In most Christian religions, how genuine a person is seen as a Judgement that comes from God. A person can be a Christian and put forth a tiny amount of effort towards being a "good Christian." Maybe that's enough? Maybe it's not? We don't know. All "we" know is that we have to genuinely try because God will Judge the "content of our heart" and knows how genuine we were trying. This System of Judgement allows for a much more merciful Judgement for a person who was born into a violent Gangster family vs. one born in a very stable and wealthy Christian family (the supposition is that the latter will receive a harsher Judgement).

Killing Osama helped American morale and optimism that maybe the War on Terror isn't a massive waste. Could you imagine how Americans would feel if ISIS was running around and meanwhile we haven't even killed Osama yet?

To DDM,

How do you know Obama isn't "genuinely trying"?

Bush has said that God speaks to him and guides him in his decision making. Granted, while I don't think that is literally happening, Bush may very well actually believe it as irrefutable fact

Originally posted by Robtard
To DDM,

How do you know Obama isn't "genuinely trying"?

I can never know. This is why it also says not to judge. However, I can judge him based off of his immoral decisions and lies which show he is directly contradicing his professed Christian faith.

In fact, it requires no human to assess this. We can write a program to check the truth of data and spit out a result.


For example:

Is Gitmo a Christian institution (turning the other cheek, forgiving liberally, etc.)? Did Obama, as one of his often repeated campaign promises, state that he would close Gitmo?




Originally posted by Robtard
Bush has said that God speaks to him and guides him in his decision making. Granted, while I don't think that is literally happening, Bush may very well actually believe it as irrefutable fact

So this meter stick cannot be applied to Obama but it can to Bush?

Bush...the murder of tens of thousands of Iraqi people who lied to get an unjust war started? That guy? Would not Bush be more culpable since he made it clear that he was even more devote?

Which is my point, you can say "has done unchristian acts", but saying "no, he's not a Christian" as fact is faulty

Not what I was saying or the point. The point: Bush is no more or less Christian than Obama. They both say they are, but have acts that contradict that, but we can't see into their "hearts" and minds. Bush says he was guided by God, I for one can't say he genuinely believes that or is knowingly lying

edit: Personally, I edge towards Bush actually believing that God speaks (spoke?) to him, cos he always came off as a bit of a nutter

So it's ok to believe in God however it's crazy talk to think he can talk to humans.

Even though you didn't have a question mark, it seems like you were asking the question, so I'll answer it just in case.

Yes, it's okay to have faith in a deity, it's not okay to hear non existent voices in your head telling you to do things. See: David Berkowitz

Can you just tell me who he is?

Son of Sam serial killer. Murdered people because his dog spoke to him and told him to

Originally posted by Robtard
Which is my point, you can say "has done unchristian acts", but saying "no, he's not a Christian" as fact is faulty

But that point is wrong. He professes Christianity to please public opinion but all of his actions say the opposite. It is more likely he is not than is. You're not that naive.

It's like....you're appealing to the 1% just to be right because you hate the idea that one of the most important "good" things about Obama be true because there's hardly anything left "good" about him. Just fess up to the other 99% of the pile of shit instead of holding onto that tiny hope. He shit on your hope. Don't pretend he's a Christian.

Originally posted by Robtard
Not what I was saying or the point. The point: Bush is no more or less Christian than Obama. They both say they are, but have acts that contradict that, but we can't see into their "hearts" and minds. Bush says he was guided by God, I for one can't say he genuinely believes that or is knowingly lying

Ummm...

You're wrong on the most fundamental level possible. There's literally no way for you to be more wrong about the point you're trying to make. Seriously. I've already addressed, why, as well. But if you would like for me to restate it: it's right there in what Christians call their "holy writ."

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

http://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/7.htm



If you say, "I'm a Christian" and then violate the fundamentals of Christian teachings, unrepentingly, you're not a Christian.

I'm a Raiders fan. I never go to their games, I have never watched any of their games, I own nothing from them, I know nobody from that team, I actively cheer for teams that play against them, I do not associate with raiders fans, and I even donate money to anti-Raiders groups! But, dammit, I'm a Raiders fan! Why won't you take my word for it? Man, come on! Take my word for it...

Say what you will about Christians, but the fundamentals of the belief system prevents you from falsely claiming to be a follower of Christ. And why is that? Oh, there are holy writings for that, too:

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

http://biblehub.com/kjv/james/2.htm


Congratulations, you've placed Obama on the same level as demons.

Originally posted by Robtard
edit: Personally, I edge towards Bush actually believing that God speaks (spoke?) to him, cos he always came off as a bit of a nutter

And I personally believe he was a liar...cause...you know...he was factually a liar. Why would Bush be any different from Obama? Bush played the devote Christian role better than Obama, however. He actually went to some of the Raiders' games.

Bush said he is a Christian, and performed actions just as if not even more unethical than Obama. I don't think ethics can be used to measure piety.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Bush said he is a Christian, and performed actions just as if not even more unethical than Obama. I don't think ethics can be used to measure piety.

I posted a Christian scripture that supports that notion.


Edit - As fact, what you state in your post is pretty much the summary of Jesus' complaints against the Sadducees and Pharisees.

Originally posted by dadudemon
But that point is wrong. He professes Christianity to please public opinion but all of his actions say the opposite. It is more likely he is not than is. You're not that naive.

It's like....you're appealing to the 1% just to be right because you hate the idea that one of the most important "good" things about Obama be true because there's hardly anything left "good" about him. Just fess up to the other 99% of the pile of shit instead of holding onto that tiny hope. He shit on your hope. Don't pretend he's a Christian.

Ummm...

You're wrong on the most fundamental level possible. There's literally no way for you to be more wrong about the point you're trying to make. Seriously. I've already addressed, why, as well. But if you would like for me to restate it: it's right there in what Christians call their "holy writ."

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

http://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/7.htm



If you say, "I'm a Christian" and then violate the fundamentals of Christian teachings, unrepentingly, you're not a Christian.

I'm a Raiders fan. I never go to their games, I have never watched any of their games, I own nothing from them, I know nobody from that team, I actively cheer for teams that play against them, I do not associate with raiders fans, and I even donate money to anti-Raiders groups! But, dammit, I'm a Raiders fan! Why won't you take my word for it? Man, come on! Take my word for it...

Say what you will about Christians, but the fundamentals of the belief system prevents you from falsely claiming to be a follower of Christ. And why is that? Oh, there are holy writings for that, too:

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

http://biblehub.com/kjv/james/2.htm


Congratulations, you've placed Obama on the same level as demons.



And I personally believe he was a liar...cause...you know...he was factually a liar. Why would Bush be any different from Obama? Bush played the devote Christian role better than Obama, however. He actually went to some of the Raiders' games.

Everything you've said that didn't agree with my assessment and points is factually wrong and I see no reason to continue going in circles. We'll just have to agree to disagree

Originally posted by Robtard
Everything you've said that didn't agree with my assessment and points is factually wrong and I see no reason to continue going in circles. We'll just have to agree to disagree

haermm

Okay, I concede the point. You were right.

Couldn't be arsed reading through 7 pages of replies to see if anyone had mentioned it but John Kerry visited France in the week after the attacks so the opening rant is simply untrue.

Originally posted by jaden101
Couldn't be arsed reading through 7 pages of replies to see if anyone had mentioned it but John Kerry visited France in the week after the attacks so the opening rant is simply untrue.

Wait a minute...you have to be wrong. John Kerry is not in the Obama Administration, is he?


Originally posted by Time Immemorial
...none of Obama Administration...

So the question is, is John Kerry part of the Obama Administration?


John Kerry - 68th United States Secretary of State



Oooooh kay. Looks like Jaden is right. The ****ing Scot is right.


Edit - For those who may be wondering why Jaden is right, Cabinet (Google "Cabinet of the United States". You may find some presidential animal crackers) positions (Such as Secretary of State) are appointed by the President and approved by Congress.

Originally posted by dadudemon
haermm

Okay, I concede the point. You were right.

What happened to you Rob.

You used to be such a jovial young man.

Bearing the weight of the universe on one's shoulders will do that

Originally posted by jaden101
Couldn't be arsed reading through 7 pages of replies to see if anyone had mentioned it but John Kerry visited France in the week after the attacks so the opening rant is simply untrue.

Lol, he didn't go to the walk for freedom event..

Originally posted by dadudemon
Wait a minute...you have to be wrong. John Kerry is not in the Obama Administration, is he?




So the question is, is John Kerry part of the Obama Administration?


John Kerry - 68th United States Secretary of State



Oooooh kay. Looks like Jaden is right. The ****ing Scot is right.


Edit - For those who may be wondering why Jaden is right, Cabinet (Google "Cabinet of the United States". You may find some presidential animal crackers) positions (Such as Secretary of State) are appointed by the President and approved by Congress.

I thought somebody would've brought it up given the embarrassing attempt doing a speech in French that he gave.

I guess Secretary of State is a bit of a non entity position in the administration then?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Lol, he didn't go to the walk for freedom event..

He's American. He doesn't believe in freedom.

Originally posted by jaden101
I guess Secretary of State is a bit of a non entity position in the administration then?

It is a political bargaining chip and PR thing, that position is. It's a powerful and important position, for sure. But it is usually given to strategic "friends" of the incumbent presidential party (like all cabinet positions). It can be best seen as a "thank you" to John Kerry for trying to run for President. It's a consolation prize for losing. It's also to get a powerful democrat in a powerful position.