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Both at their peak.
They face opponets who are also at their best (unless specified otherwise).

The team gets full health and power restored after each fight.

No amp/prep time.

Neutral setting.

How far do they go?

1. Bane, Ventress and Plo Koon
2. Maul, Savage and Kenobi
3. Mace and Dooku
4. Krayt and Durron
5. Revan and Malgus
6. ROTS Sidious and Exar Kun

EDIT: lol typos in the title. Too many drinks tonight.

How do you think Caedus stacks up to RotS Sidious, LamLam?

Down at 6

They can possibly clear this imo.

Starkiller has enough power to at least hold off Sidious long enough for Caedus to kill Kun.

At the same time put Caedus against Sidious and Starkiller against Kun... interesting.

1.

LOL

Originally posted by Nephthys
1.

Originally posted by ILS
LOL

Caedus could solo that let alone need a Starkiller to disintegrate Bane with the force

Originally posted by carthage
Caedus could solo that let alone need a Starkiller to disintegrate Bane with the force I agree with this sentiment. Bane would probably just disintegrate in their combined presence.

Originally posted by ILS
LOL

Koon and Ventress hold off SK until Bane beats Caedus and dogpiles him. They might even beat him tbh.

How about SK and Caedus ragdoll the other team as a duo or while the other kicks back with a nudey and some exotic drink?

Bane can't beat Caedus nor contend with him for long at all, Starkiller would definitely defeat Koon and Ventress.

Lol yeah a guy who has only beaten a Sith trainee fighting the guy who fought. Luke Skywalker.

Caedus could stomp Bane without arms

Like SK ragdolled Shaak Ti? How much more powerful is she than Ventress?

Caedus could rip one of his own arms off, throw it at Bane hard enough to knock him out, rips Bane's arm off, which wakes him up, and then proceed to beat Bane to death with his own elbow.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Like SK ragdolled Shaak Ti? How much more powerful is she than Ventress? Starkiller didn't fight Shaak Ti - Galen Marek did. And that was a pre-prime Galen who was weakened by the environment while Ti was neutral/strengthened, so not a fair argument if it was potentially valid anyway.

****ing hilarious that anyone really thinks Bane could fight Caedus, but then again Neph routinely says wacky stuff

Originally posted by ILS
Starkiller didn't fight Shaak Ti - Galen Marek did. And that was a pre-prime Galen who was weakened by the environment while Ti was neutral/strengthened, so not a fair argument if it was potentially valid anyway.

Pretty much literally the same person bro. And none of that adds up to Bane + Koon on top of Ti/Ventress. Galen didn't improve that much nor was he that weakened. In a duel Starkiller isn't standing up to Koon and Ventress together.

You... lie!

Caedus can literally blitz Bane, Starkiller collectively is still more powerul than either. But nice try neglecting the fact Starkiller is more powerful than Galen

Yeah, sorry. I have a nasty habit of determining I'm going to sleep then getting distracted by bullshit.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Pretty much literally the same person bro. And none of that adds up to Bane + Koon on top of Ti/Ventress. Galen didn't improve that much nor was he that weakened. In a duel Starkiller isn't standing up to Koon and Ventress together. TFU II Starkiller has better power feats than Galen, and isn't the same being, and I must reiterate that that was pre-prime Galen under terrible circumstances, which you seem to think is negligible - it isn't. Not to mention Ti's power feats don't necessarily apply to other characters anyway, so there's another fallacious argument.

More to the point, however. Starkiller's frigate moving/disintegrating and simultaneous outer-layer-of-star-heat-barrier feat is enough to ragdoll everyone on the other team at the same time. Their collective power showings are absolutely minute compared to that feat. In a duel Starkiller would be destroyed but he doesn't need to duel anyone.

The only BS I smell is that an unskilled loser that has only beaten a Sith trainee can fight with the guy who held his own against Caedus. A guy like Starkiller who disintegrates frigates will also have no problem destroying inferior opponents with the force

Stops at 6. ROTS Sidious vs. Caedus is close enough to a draw that I'm willing to say Exar Kun takes down Starkiller long before it gets resolved.

So much Bane hate... Seriously just go get a room with him already

3. Mace and Dooku
4. Krayt and Durron
5. Revan and Malgus
6. ROTS Sidious and Exar Kun

From there, there is a patern how ever I don't if they loose at ( or six or clear....

Originally posted by ILS
TFU II Starkiller has better power feats than Galen, and isn't the same being, and I must reiterate that that was pre-prime Galen under terrible circumstances, which you seem to think is negligible - it isn't. Not to mention Ti's power feats don't necessarily apply to other characters anyway, so there's another fallacious argument.

More to the point, however. Starkiller's frigate moving/disintegrating and simultaneous outer-layer-of-star-heat-barrier feat is enough to ragdoll everyone on the other team at the same time. Their collective power showings are absolutely minute compared to that feat. In a duel Starkiller would be destroyed but he doesn't need to duel anyone.

He has the same power available to him and no reason why he'd be stronger than the original. In fact given that he has less memories and training he should really be weaker tbh. And I didn't state negligible, I said incomparable to Bane + Koon's power and defenses. There's no way he improved to the point where he could not only ragdoll a comparable Force user to Ti in Ventress but also the Sith'ari and Plo Koon as well. That don't make no sense. And I don't see why we can't compare Ti and Ventress. The latter has superior combat feats with regards to power, after all.

That feat is miles beyond anything in the games as well. None of the characters Starkiller has issues with display comparable levels of power. In or outside of that game. It's completely exaggerated wank that irrevocably clashes with other materials. More to the point SK never displays that kind of power in his actual fights. Or anything remotely close to it. Why did he not explode the Gorog with a casual wave unless he cannot replicate that power in a fight? Or unless it's poorly thought-out trash that shouldn't remotely be taken seriously. And shortly after that feat Vader, who did very well against SK, lost to a Maul clone. Maul isn't even really much better than Ventress alone.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That feat is miles beyond anything in the games as well. None of the characters Starkiller has issues with display comparable levels of power. In or outside of that game. It's completely exaggerated wank that irrevocably clashes with other materials. More to the point SK never displays that kind of power in his actual fights. Or anything remotely close to it. Why did he not explode the Gorog with a casual wave unless he cannot replicate that power in a fight? Or unless it's poorly thought-out trash that shouldn't remotely be taken seriously. And shortly after that feat Vader, who did very well against SK, lost to a Maul clone. Maul isn't even really much better than Ventress alone.

^This

Originally posted by Nephthys


That feat is miles beyond anything in the games as well. None of the characters Starkiller has issues with display comparable levels of power. In or outside of that game. It's completely exaggerated wank that irrevocably clashes with other materials. More to the point SK never displays that kind of power in his actual fights. Or anything remotely close to it. Why did he not explode the Gorog with a casual wave unless he cannot replicate that power in a fight? Or unless it's poorly thought-out trash that shouldn't remotely be taken seriously. And shortly after that feat Vader, who did very well against SK, lost to a Maul clone. Maul isn't even really much better than Ventress alone.

You could've just shortened your TLDR post to say you think the feat is overrated, and that you have no valid reason or feats of barrier to suggest Starkiller can't ragdoll any of the three or two at once

Originally posted by carthage
You could've just shortened your TLDR post to say you think the feat is overrated, and that you have no valid reason or feats of barrier to suggest Starkiller can't ragdoll any of the three or two at once

Originally posted by Nephthys
He has the same power available to him and no reason why he'd be stronger than the original. In fact given that he has less memories and training he should really be weaker tbh. And I didn't state negligible, I said incomparable to Bane + Koon's power and defenses. There's no way he improved to the point where he could not only ragdoll a comparable Force user to Ti in Ventress but also the Sith'ari and Plo Koon as well. That don't make no sense. And I don't see why we can't compare Ti and Ventress. The latter has superior combat feats with regards to power, after all.

That feat is miles beyond anything in the games as well. None of the characters Starkiller has issues with display comparable levels of power. In or outside of that game. It's completely exaggerated wank that irrevocably clashes with other materials. More to the point SK never displays that kind of power in his actual fights. Or anything remotely close to it. Why did he not explode the Gorog with a casual wave unless he cannot replicate that power in a fight? Or unless it's poorly thought-out trash that shouldn't remotely be taken seriously. And shortly after that feat Vader, who did very well against SK, lost to a Maul clone. Maul isn't even really much better than Ventress alone. So.. you both want me to debate with you under the assumption this is Galen Marek from TFU I instead of Starkiller from TFU II (this isn't the case) and also under the assumption that his frigate feat is non-canon because you don't like it (even though the novels are the highest form of TFU canon)?

Nah.

Very good thread.

They stomp the first two rounds. The next three are a definite struggle. The sixth is a coin flip; they may very well clear.

Originally posted by carthage
You could've just shortened your TLDR post to say you think the feat is overrated, and that you have no valid reason or feats of barrier to suggest Starkiller can't ragdoll any of the three or two at once

His answer, if you pay attention, is that "It's completely exaggerated wank that irrevocably clashes with other materials."

Which is to suggest that "Starkiller can't ragdoll any of the three or two at once"

TFU is an exaggerated source, very similar to the CW mini that portrayed everyone as Superman. The entire concept behind the game was to unleash the force by portraying it in a highly exaggerated and inflated manner that was on another level to the standard portrayal of the Force. So I don't see those feats as representative of SK necessarily being far above others. If the likes of Bane or Dooku or Maul had been in that game they'd be doing similar things. Anyone appearing in those materials is portrayed in that stylised, exaggerated way.

Galen originating within that material means there is no way to consider him outside of it. So you can't really discredit his feats the same way you can with the CW cartoon. Jus' saying. Having said that it is a highly exaggerated source.

Originally posted by Nephthys
TFU is an exaggerated source, very similar to the CW mini that portrayed everyone as Superman. The entire concept behind the game was to unleash the force by portraying it in a highly exaggerated and inflated manner that was on another level to the standard portrayal of the Force. So I don't see those feats as representative of SK necessarily being far above others. If the likes of Bane or Dooku or Maul had been in that game they'd be doing similar things. Anyone appearing in those materials is portrayed in that stylised, exaggerated way.

No kidding, its not the only one, but one of the most obvious.

Originally posted by ILS
Galen originating within that material means there is no way to consider him outside of it. So you can't really discredit his feats the same way you can with the CW cartoon. Jus' saying. Having said that it is a highly exaggerated source.

We can consider him based on how he measures up to other characters, like Vader. I rate SK based on how I rate Vader, based upon Vader's numerous showings, as slightly above him in both the Force and sabers. As well as what it suggests that he can momentarily tank Sidious' lightning, based on how I rate that lightning. So I put him about on par with Revan and Malgus.

Originally posted by Nephthys
We can consider him based on how he measures up to other characters, like Vader. I rate SK based on how I rate Vader, based upon Vader's numerous showings, as slightly above him in both the Force and sabers. As well as what it suggests that he can momentarily tank Sidious' lightning, based on how I rate that lightning. So I put him about on par with Revan and Malgus. But as you've said, Vader is exaggerated to an extent in that source material as well. Power-scaling Galen off of an exaggerated character isn't a good way to find common ground with a consistent one.

And your views however valid can be completely dismissed. TFU is a part of Legends canon, whether we like it or not. What Galen has accomplished throughout the series canonically happened, so trying to take those showings and power-scale them down is a murky task to say the least.

Vader has showings outside of TFU tho.

Any opinion can be dismissed. I'm just making a case for mine. TFU might well be canon, but hasn't it been said that some elements of canon are "foggier" and further away from the "real" star wars than others? As far as I know however, TFU and the CW mini are the only two examples where it's explicit that the material is an unrealistic take on the setting. They can be canon and still be an exaggerated version of events if we take this foggy window statement into account.

Originally posted by ILS
And your views however valid can be completely dismissed. TFU is a part of Legends canon, whether we like it or not. What Galen has accomplished throughout the series canonically happened, so trying to take those showings and power-scale them down is a murky task to say the least.

FOTJ Luke is clearly above Vader. Caedus is a little ways under FOTJ Luke. So for example: Luke > Vader = Caedus > Starkiller which would powerscale SK's feats to below Caedus's minimum.

The argument could be made however that: Luke > Caedus > Vader > Starkiller. Which would put Starkiller considerably below Caedus.

Feat wise however Starkiller pretty much trumps all of them even Luke. This leads to a paradox in the cannon. As a result I power scale the feats from a sensationalized game intended to sell based on crazy use of the force instead of good story telling. You can do the opposite if you want, just be consistent.

Whoops, I forgot to account for Vader's own improvement after TFU. So really SK is maybe a bit better than Dooku with the Force and sub Maul in sabers?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Whoops, I forgot to account for Vader's own improvement after TFU.

Actually I didn't include that either, good point.

Oh, even Starkiller doesn't do anything equal to Luke at his best. Star Destroyers are big, it's true. Luke has dealt with bigger things.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Oh, even Starkiller doesn't do anything equal to Luke at his best. Star Destroyers are big, it's true. Luke has dealt with bigger things.

In which case SK goes even lower relative to Caedus.

Well stop at 5 Revan force storm combined with his higly advanced Alter Environment that can even control the lightnings.... That's mean than Revan can act at the molecular level......

So can 5 year old Jaina and Jacen if you believe Crystal Star (probably worst sw novel ever lol)

At least I think it was Crystal Star, it's been a long time.

Originally posted by Revanchiste
Well stop at 5 Revan force storm combined with his higly advanced Alter Environment that can even control the lightnings.... That's mean than Revan can act at the molecular level......

Just about every ****er in the mythos that created a holocron has some form of sub-atomic matter manipulation per Bane's narration on how to actually create and edit one

This isn't anything special in star wars

Not sure if they could make it to round 6 but they definitely stop there.

ROTS Sidious > Caedus
Exar Kun > Starkiller

Originally posted by AncientPower
Bane can't beat Caedus

I actually don't find TFU exagerated.

During actual fights Marek was portrayed as a very skilled combatant using his charisma to outwit his opponents rather than a power bully.

As of those feats where he explosed a frigate or moves a falling star destroyer, I consider those either meditative concentration or just a rage moment that he can't replicate every time.

It's been shown in many novels that characters through deep prolong concentration can achieve rediculous feats. Most notable one is where Dorsk 81 pushed 14 star destroyers with help of 30 Jedi channeling power into him.

That's a little different from falling through orbit. That would require ridiculous Tutaminis especially while moving a frigate.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That's a little different from falling through orbit. That would require ridiculous Tutaminis especially while moving a frigate.
I am not aware of specifics of all feats. My opinion is based on TFU I as I looked at those feats myself.

They dies at 3.

Originally posted by Arhael
I am not aware of specifics of all feats. My opinion is based on TFU I as I looked at those feats myself.
I agree, TFU isn't really that ridiculous, at least in the fact that everyone is at least comparable to Starkiller. The clone however is insane in scale, honestly only Vader keeping up with him shows he has weaknesses of any kind.

Well, Vader IS the chosen one, so that does help. And he's a significant badass in his ownright.

What did that have to do with anything? Like at all?