How powerful is Vader?

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zEniX
It's an interesting question for me, with a fair number of power scaling ramifications for the EU.

Today I was remembering a quote by the lost tribe saying roughly, "Vader is one of the most powerful Sith of all time." That's pretty impressive when you consider they knew about Hord, Sadow, and the rest of the ancient Sith, not to mention all of the Sith in the lost tribe's history.

Also, it seems pretty clear to me that FOTJ Luke > Vader as well as RoTJ Sidious > Vader.

So thoughts? Specifically who do you think is essentially equal to Vader for
1. Force powers
2. Lightsaber prowess

P.S. This is for RoTJ Vader.

ILS
My best gauge off the top of my head for Vader is more powerful than Exar Kun, Malgus and Dooku, but below Plagueis.

He's closest to Anakin for lightsaber skill, lol. Or RotJ Luke. Just below Dooku, just above Maul.

zEniX
I'm pretty confused with your estimation of Vader's saber skills, since you have
Anakin = Vader
So in your opinion there was no real decline in his saber skills since Revenge, but you have Dooku > Vader. This seems contradictory to me since Anakin beat Dooku handily in Revenge. So what's your reasoning?

ILS
Dooku and Anakin are close in skill, but Anakin can destroy Dooku by tapping heavily into Force Rage and abusing his strength. Outside of that, they're quite closely matched.

And I have Vader on-par with Anakin. His skills declined initially by maybe a tier or so, but after improving far and away as a duelist and refining his lightsaber technique, he in my mind became as good as Anakin again.

zEniX
I obviously agree that Anakin was pretty pissed off at the end of the fight, but he also was very much in control of himself. What is your source for Anakin "tapping heavily into Force Rage and abusing his strength."?

From what I remember from the book version, Dooku grossly underestimated both Anakin's and Kenobi's lightsaber skills. That being said, obviously G cannon > C cannon.

The explanation I think fits best is actually that Anakin drawing off the light / neutral force makes him weaker because its against his deepest nature by Revenge of the Sith. For Revenge Anakin, drawing on the dark side makes him stronger faster better etc because it's shall we say "more natural" for him and he's not fighting himself.

The Merchant
Top 10 strongest material.

Emperordmb
Sith? Or of everyone?

zEniX
Everyone, but I would like actual names of people you think he's on par with for sabers and in terms of the force.

The Merchant
I think he is around Kun and Krayt's level.

zEniX
Originally posted by The Merchant
I think he is around Kun and Krayt's level.

Interesting. How do you have Krayt ranked compared to FOTJ Luke?

The Merchant
When I mention Krayt I mean his Vong Implants, not Krayt when he was reborn or before his Vong Implants. He seems stronger in those two incarnations.

zEniX
Originally posted by The Merchant
When I mention Krayt I mean his Vong Implants, not Krayt when he was reborn or before his Vong Implants. He seems stronger in those two incarnations.

That seems to fit fairly well thanks for clarifying.

carthage
More powerful than Darth Bane, and a better duelist than Agen Kolar

zEniX
Originally posted by carthage
More powerful than Darth Bane, and a better duelist than Agen Kolar

Originally posted by zEniX

So thoughts? Specifically who do you think is essentially equal to Vader for
1. Force powers
2. Lightsaber prowess


If you're going to post please say who Vader is on par with not above or below.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by zEniX
Everyone, but I would like actual names of people you think he's on par with for sabers and in terms of the force.

Sabers: Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Force: Not sure, tbh.
All Out: Exar Kun, Revan, and Darth Krayt are all peers of his.

Also, Sick!Krayt is well below Vader.

Revanchiste
Vaderhave gigh advanced TK...Tutaminis, some rage boost powers, dark healing.
And that's it.. Some sith sorcery but he need artifacts.... Therest is not really canon in my opinion.
Dueling skill good speed, rafine technic, excellent timining to compensate the lack of speed, heavy strengh..

But the greatest about him it's his physichal abilities and toughness....

That's pretty much it.

Stigma
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Sabers: Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Force: Not sure, tbh.
All Out: Exar Kun, Revan, and Darth Krayt are all peers of his.

Also, Sick!Krayt is well below Vader.

I agree with these estimations thumb up

I'd also add that in the force Vader edges out people like Windu, Dooku or Malgus (slightly), but is below force users like Starkiller (slightly), Plagueis and, of course, Yoda/Sidious.

ILS
Originally posted by NewGuy01
All Out: Exar Kun, Revan, and Darth Krayt are all peers of his. Not aaanymoooooooooreeeee

ares834
Why? What happened? Or are you just reffering to the new canon rules?

Revanchiste
KotOR 3 Revan V.S Nw rebooted Vader !
Good luck Vader.
Vador V. sidious? Good luck. Plagueis good luck.
Well any golden era Jedi is basicly wreck by Vader.... So Vader is not doing shit...

WildBantha88
Vader = top 5 sith

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Definitely not top sith sith tbh

carthage
I agree some generic crap TOR Sith DC member might be better than Vader

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Sidious Vitiate Nihilus Caedus Plagueis Kun Krayt tbh

FreshestSlice
And the Imperial Guards are also above Vader, because the DC feared them.

carthage
Vader is better than Vitiate Exar or Krayt

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Nah tbh

ares834
Originally posted by WildBantha88
Vader = top 5 sith

Zenwolf
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And the Imperial Guards are also above Vader, because the DC feared them.

AH HA! AH HA!

Oh man...that's a good one...

FreshestSlice
Not only is it good, it's also true. Thank you.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Not only is it good, it's also true. Thank you.

Yeah it's true that some DC members fear the Guard, which I honestly still don't understand. Unless it means, they are fearful when they draw on Vitiate's power to aid them, that's more understanding, but if it's speaking normally, I find that odd.

But to say they are better than Vader?...No.

FreshestSlice
You haven't realized it yet, but you will soon. You're trying way too hard.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You haven't realized it yet, but you will soon. You're trying way too hard.

What I've realized, is that Vitiate's Guard isn't superior to Vader.

Revanchiste
Originally posted by carthage
Vader is better than Vitiate Exar or Krayt
XD Peharps Krayt... I hate the fact than quasi every Jedi survive to the Jedi purge and still live after the destruction of the death star I hate this Idea !
Kunk etc **** you the empire last 27 years ! I mean why they still good at this age? Eeven with the light side providing less aging, why Krayt haven't some kind of dark side degredation after all this years studing the dark side???

Vitiate? You mean Vader superior to Vitiate? Vitiate is quasi equal to palpatine level... Humhum.. So tell me? Why vader don't face the emperor?

Vader is a build named "Jedi killer lord", is a Jedi killer like assaj ventress and Grievous, but a lord like malgus... he is above any Jedi in the golden era...

But he is not on the level of god like sith like vitiate, Pre-KotOR Kotor 3 Darth Revan, Kun, Tulak Hord plagueis Sidious etc...


Originally posted by Zenwolf
What I've realized, is that Vitiate's Guard isn't superior to Vader.

Of course a sith lord of this level....


Yeah it's true that some DC members fear the Guard, which I honestly still don't understand. Unless it means, they are fearful when they draw on Vitiate's power to aid them, that's more understanding, but if it's speaking normally, I find that odd.

But to say they are better than Vader?...No.

They are non force users....

But Dark council member not fear one Guard the fear the guard... It's like saying than the limitless galactic empire army, is betetr than Vader of course one storm trooper suck but a billion.....

Some DC member are above Vader

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by WildBantha88
Vader = top 5 sith

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Revanchiste


They are non force users....

But Dark council member not fear one Guard the fear the guard... It's like saying than the limitless galactic empire army, is betetr than Vader of course one storm trooper suck but a billion.....

Some DC member are above Vader

I know they are non-force users.

Although I'm not sure it's speaking of the entire Guard, because the quote says that even the mightest of Sith lay down their sabers when confronted by a lone Guardsman.

Now it does say the DC does fear the Guard, not just a Guardsman so...they could fear the whole entire Guard...if that is so, then that is more reasonable.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Zenwolf
What I've realized, is that Vitiate's Guard isn't superior to Vader.
You're saying fodder is below Vader? No shit. That was the joke.

Revanchiste
Originally posted by Zenwolf
I know they are non-force users.

Although I'm not sure it's speaking of the entire Guard, because the quote says that even the mightest of Sith lay down their sabers when confronted by a lone Guardsman.

Now it does say the DC does fear the Guard, not just a Guardsman so...they could fear the whole entire Guard...if that is so, then that is more reasonable.
Two guard = Grievous in dueling skill. But eqquiped with some device that protect them from force attacks.. Still Revan blitz them...

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Revanchiste
Two guard = Grievous in dueling skill. But eqquiped with some device that protect them from force attacks.. Still Revan blitz them...

I assume you have a sort of evidence that has Two Guards= Grevious?

carthage
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Nah tbh

Call me when Vitiate (off nexus), Kun, or Krayt can crush an entire ATT unit with one hand. thumb up

ILS
Vader fanboy!

FreshestSlice
Nah, that's the new canon Vader, so he doesn't matter. EU Vader is a pleb.

Revanchiste
Originally posted by carthage
Call me when Vitiate (off nexus), Kun, or Krayt can crush an entire ATT unit with one hand. thumb up

Well vitiate canat his level that's possible (but not of nexus he is a nexus XD.)

Kun did this with the wyrm before blasting it...

Krayt I just simply hate his back story no matter how bad ass he is !

Revan crush entire armies so it might be possible...... Off nexus XD !!!

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I assume you have a sort of evidence that has Two Guards= Grevious?

They have bionich augmentation, that allow them to have a great stamina... Like grievous...
they are very well equipped to kill Jedi (thank to cortosis armoreplate blade etc..), and are higly trained like grievous is...
To have the 4 arms and the complicate technic of grievous taht's easy, take 2 of them they have learn to fight together.
And they have an artificial force shield and some kind of force resistance like tentarek...

Grievous don't...

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Revanchiste




They have bionich augmentation, that allow them to have a great stamina... Like grievous...
they are very well equipped to kill Jedi (thank to cortosis armoreplate blade etc..), and are higly trained like grievous is...
To have the 4 arms and the complicate technic of grievous taht's easy, take 2 of them they have learn to fight together.
And they have an artificial force shield and some kind of force resistance like tentarek...

Grievous don't...

...I'm still waiting for some Sourcebook quotes here and actual evidence.

Because what I have, there's no mention of anything you just said. I'm just gonna go out on a limb and you're being ignorant and a fanboy...so good day.

Revanchiste

FreshestSlice
Imperial Guards are resistant to TK, as seen in the Revan novel, but it's not like they can't be easily killed, especially by Vader, who is above Revan.

Revanchiste
In my rechearch I found this :
http://swtor.mondespersistants.com/la-critique-d-alliance-fatale:article-177/ we are not alone to hate 3.0...

Zenwolf
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Imperial Guards are resistant to TK, as seen in the Revan novel, but it's not like they can't be easily killed, especially by Vader, who is above Revan.

But only when they draw on the Emperor's power as that was noted. But I feel they would be, Revan pretty much stomped the Guard he 'fought' I use the ' ' because they didn't really seem to have much of a fight, he just used a Force Push and then slashed his throat.





But I feel were going off topic here, so let's just move along.

Revanchiste

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Revanchiste
In my rechearch I found this :
http://swtor.mondespersistants.com/la-critique-d-alliance-fatale:article-177/ we are not alone to hate 3.0...
It might be because we're speaking different languages, but who the hell is "we?" Do you mean oui? Unlike you, the rest of us don't speak French.

Zenwolf
Revanchist, sorry but I cannot understand a single thing you're trying to say. So I dunno what to take from all your posts.

Revanchiste
Ha I found it !! The garde is something very "holy" in the empire the guard have the protection of the emperor ! It's like the emperor wrath, emperor voice, the emperor's hand.... It's a part of the emperor, an extended part of his will.
It came from: First the gnost dural timeline.
and all the rest is from the game or the novel only....
You have to find some quote site to find all the dialogs.... I have one website that work for KotOR 1/2 quotes.... With al the work of obsidian but not for ToR.
Good luck...



Sorry there is a third person Personal pronoun in french, name on. it can act as we or as someone.... In most of the other language he is translated as we. We over use it so, you understand the technichal problem? In spanish this not a problem, they have the same..

And I'm re-editing schearching re-editing schearching so it the end it look a bit incoherent...

Revanchiste
Who were saying than vader>nihilus? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IobIhctxRXg

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