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The title explains it all. What is the best quantifiable combat speed ft you can think of. No PC fts can be used here. Fts has to be done via combat. No flying here. This is all reflexes/movement speed.

One I can think of is...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/81052/1489354-hyp3.jpg

Gladiator combating at light speed.

Where does it say they are fighting at lightspeed?

Anyway....

Nanoseconds are a billionth of a second. We can see that the first few shots/punches thrown, takes place within a time frame of seconds - Hyperion is stunned by the blast, and needs SECONDS to recover. He does so, just in time before Gladiator punches his crossed arms, then NANOSECONDS later, throws a punch back. IOW, only the second half of the fight takes place in nanoseconds.

Here, the Flash has an ENTIRE fight within one picosecond, which is a TRILLIONTH of a second, or a thousand times, faster. And he only needed ONE picosecond to do it.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/145371/2961929-3598833534-profz.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/145371/2961930-2298215491-profz.jpg

Did you really have to use Flash for this thread? And nano seconds are still beastly.

Originally posted by carver9
Did you really have to use Flash for this thread? And nano seconds are still beastly.

Sure, I guess, for Hyperion/Gladiator. In a true speedster's world? Thousands of time slower.

Anyway, you asked:



Non PC, no flying (which technically, counts YOUR own feat out - Hyperion is flying in space), quantifiable, combat speed - this was one of the best I thought of. Flash has plenty of others.

Not to mention, where does it say they are fighting at lightspeed?

Not light speed. Punch was thrown within a nanosecond. Anyways, I thought people would auto resort from using Flash in this thread.

Originally posted by carver9
Not light speed. Punch was thrown within a nanosecond. Anyways, I thought people would auto resort from using Flash in this thread.

Within nanosecondS. Plural.

Why would they? It's like having a strength thread....and Hulk not being there.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Within nanosecondS. Plural.

Why would they? It's like having a strength thread....and Hulk not being there.

A punch, block, and another punch was thrown within that time.

That's different. Hulk isn't stronger than everyone. Flash is faster though.

Originally posted by carver9
A punch, block, and another punch was thrown within that time.


And?



Well, sorry. I thought you were looking for combat speed feats. Are you not?

Technically all reaction speeds should=to combat speed; as in combats, dodging would be a reaction. Also perception should also be apart of combat, as perceiving at high speeds allows combating at those speeds.

Simultaneous atomising, and repairing:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/5/50114/1043260-cabledeadpool102005strepd5.jpg
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/6253/296766-cabledeadpool102005street6_super.jpg

Originally posted by VastoLord1234
Technically all reaction speeds should=to combat speed; as in combats, dodging would be a reaction. Also perception should also be apart of combat, as perceiving at high speeds allows combating at those speeds.

Combat?

Originally posted by VastoLord1234
Technically all reaction speeds should=to combat speed; as in combats, dodging would be a reaction. Also perception should also be apart of combat, as perceiving at high speeds allows combating at those speeds.

You are right. A feat like, changing cloths at superspeed shows he can fight at super speed. But for some guys here, if its not a punch, then it is not combat feat no matter what the guy did they think punching something is somehow magical, even if the guy can move the arm at superspeed, he cant punch in superspeed

Im sure some will say this picture above not prove that Superman can fight at superspeed:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/3/36257/1170558-36.jpg

or this :

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/58664/1725091-superman709_016.jpg

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
You are right. A feat like, changing cloths at superspeed shows he can fight at super speed. But for some guys here, if its not a punch, then it is not combat feat no matter what the guy did they think punching something is somehow magical, even if the guy can move the arm at superspeed, he cant punch in superspeed

Im sure some will say this picture above not prove that Superman can fight at superspeed:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/3/36257/1170558-36.jpg

or this :

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/58664/1725091-superman709_016.jpg lol, I never seen the first scan. That's hilarious. That phucking fast too. Superman moves so fast that his image is still in front of Lois while he is with Batman away from her.

DBZ crew, faster than the eye can see, even to members of the z crew

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
You are right. A feat like, changing cloths at superspeed shows he can fight at super speed. But for some guys here, if its not a punch, then it is not combat feat no matter what the guy did they think punching something is somehow magical, even if the guy can move the arm at superspeed, he cant punch in superspeed

Im sure some will say this picture above not prove that Superman can fight at superspeed:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/3/36257/1170558-36.jpg

or this :

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/58664/1725091-superman709_016.jpg

This is a combat speed showing thread. Do you have any combat showings?

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/xmen190005qg7.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/Astonishing%20X-Men%20060-005_zpshiqwslv0.jpg

Gorr tags Thors who are flying light years in instants:

http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/eaebiakuya/Thor_-_God_of_Thunder_009-007_zps5c897d00.jpg

http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/eaebiakuya/4_zpsfa1e1b94.jpg

Superman has at least five nanosecond level or faster feats. Most famous is this.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103530/3282461-2.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103530/3282462-3.png

Combat only

That's a reaction feat. Bit silly to think he can move that fast but can't punch that fast.

But the thread is built for combat scenarios. Everyone has been flooring the rules here.

Since you are being selective. Perceives being weakened by the nanosecond in a fight.


http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/NanosecondPerception.jpg

Moves in nanosecond in a fight with Gog.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/NanosecondCoordonation1.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/NanosecondCoordonation2.jpg

Moving in a nanosecond while fighting Brainiac in the body of a baby.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/betweennanoseconds.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
Since you are being selective. Perceives being weakened by the nanosecond in a fight.


http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/NanosecondPerception.jpg

Moves in nanosecond in a fight with Gog.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/NanosecondCoordonation1.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/NanosecondCoordonation2.jpg

Moving in a nanosecond while fighting Brainiac in the body of a baby.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/betweennanoseconds.jpg

Dude thats Kc supes not post crisis supes
and he specifically noted his timing was off in that Braniac scan

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
Dude thats Kc supes not post crisis supes
and he specifically noted his timing was off in that Braniac scan
He was just one nanosecond ahead of regular superman and then superman matched him. So?

Yeah, he said that the blast went off sooner than he expected. So it was even less than a nanosecond. Good job.

Originally posted by -K-M-
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/Astonishing%20X-Men%20060-005_zpshiqwslv0.jpg AND the acid didn't touch him

nobody going to challenge DBZ combat speed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp2mQo-Cg8Q

Originally posted by abhilegend
Since you are being selective. Perceives being weakened by the nanosecond in a fight.


http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/NanosecondPerception.jpg

Moves in nanosecond in a fight with Gog.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/NanosecondCoordonation1.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/NanosecondCoordonation2.jpg

Moving in a nanosecond while fighting Brainiac in the body of a baby.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/betweennanoseconds.jpg

SMH.

Shut up.

SMDH

Tbh, they're as good as Gladiator fighting at lightspeed

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Where does it say they are fighting at lightspeed?

Carter's Fangirl taught math.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He was just one nanosecond ahead of regular superman and then superman matched him. So?

Yeah, he said that the blast went off sooner than he expected. So it was even less than a nanosecond. Good job.


Even leaving aside the fact that that is some weird twisting of words to make that a feat for post crisis supes, you are straight up using a non canon story for a feat

As in this, directly contradicts post crisis continuity and the whole Gog storyline that actually ran through the Superman monthlies( where Gog meets , kills supes for the first time tying in with OWAW) not to mention Thy Kingdom Come

The other feat is equally dubious but lets ignore that for now....

" the blast went off sooner than expected"? seriously?
Thats your response? Not " he didnt make it in time?"

Especially considering we are talking about " But Im not FTl, lend me speed Wally!" post crisis supes here

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost

" the blast went off sooner than expected"? seriously?
Thats your response? Not " he didnt make it in time?"

Especially considering we are talking about " But Im not FTl, lend me speed Wally!" post crisis supes here

It going off sooner than he expected would actually make it a faster scene. The whole instance happened in about a nanosecond. Considering the distance he covered, that would make the time perception a lot faster.

Are you arguing Post-CRISIS Superman isn't faster than light from one scene?

Originally posted by Delta1938
It going off sooner than he expected would actually make it a faster scene. The whole instance happened in about a nanosecond. Considering the distance he covered, that would make the time perception a lot faster.

Are you arguing Post-CRISIS Superman isn't faster than light from one scene?

Nah dude not one scene. Im going to give the whole argument in a sec
As for that feat
1) we have only supermans word that its a nanosecond, and that too " I give myself ABOUT a nanosecond", rather vague. could be more, could be less

2) the explosion happened sooner rather than later, and supes notes his timing was off, ergo, he fell short off his own vague timer

Also the whole instance does not happen in a nanosecond. Braniac was taking a fair bit of time between the burps, superman had to move the fortress and get the baby there, by which time he approximately had a nanosecond left

Given his history of reaction feats, and his own statements after id say he took longer

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
Nah dude not one scene. Im going to give the whole argument in a sec
As for that feat
1) we have only supermans word that its a nanosecond, and that too " I give myself ABOUT a nanosecond", rather vague. could be more, could be less

2) the explosion happened sooner rather than later, and supes notes his timing was off, ergo, he fell short off his own vague timer

Also the whole instance does not happen in a nanosecond. Braniac was taking a fair bit of time between the burps, superman had to move the fortress and get the baby there, by which time he approximately had a nanosecond left

Given his history of reaction feats, and his own statements after id say he took longer

You REALLY don't see that what you're arguing, Superman being off, and it happening faster than he estimated, means it happened in less time than he estimated? I don't think I can argue.

Ok here goes
Superman fainted from trying to go FTL in action 591
His race with Wally, going all out had him topping out at several times the speed of sound
Various instances through the 90s of Waverider, the Linear Men etc freezing him in time just as example, action comics annual 3, ftl speed being a pre requiste for time travel in dc
the aforementioned jla 21 where he himself screams " Im not FTL" before proceeding to take speed from wally to achieve the same
the human race, where electric blue supes actually lags behind various lightspeed flashes
ok ....what else , superman 191 , dude barely approaches lightspeed
his race/chase vs Jay " slower than light, barely faster when going all out" Garrick
being called and shown in fights to be Adam/ Marvels equal , they of struggling to keep up with Jay approaching lightspeed fame
being called slower than lightray
being dianas speed equal( ignoring the batman rubbish), she of struggling to keep up with Jesse quick entering the speed force fame
being called slower than light by Dr Light
being consistenty blitzed by time travelling ftl types Wally, Barry , Zolomon


Basically throughout his post crisis career, supes has always been portrayed as the rough speed equal of Diana, Jonn, the marvels, Jay and most non wally west flashes, and all of them consistenty show just lightspeed reactions or in most cases, a little below that

so yeah, dudes slower than light imo

Originally posted by Delta1938
You REALLY don't see that what you're arguing, Superman being off, and it happening faster than he estimated, means it happened in less time than he estimated? I don't think I can argue.

It happening in less time than supermans vague estimation and him failing to react to this, does leave the question of how fast he actually reacted, dangling tantalizingly doesnt it? and brilliantly leaves the question of whether he reacted in less than, more or exactly a nanosoecond, wonderfully answered and left free for speculation, nevermind his own statements of failing to do what he set out to do

Originally posted by relentless1
nobody going to challenge DBZ combat speed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp2mQo-Cg8Q

DBZ's speed is overrated, ive seen bleach with better speed feats.

Originally posted by carver9
But the thread is built for combat scenarios. Everyone has been flooring the rules here.

Combat speed= Reaction Speed= Perception speed; you cant have one without the other.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
You are right. A feat like, changing cloths at superspeed shows he can fight at super speed. But for some guys here, if its not a punch, then it is not combat feat no matter what the guy did they think punching something is somehow magical, even if the guy can move the arm at superspeed, he cant punch in superspeed

Im sure some will say this picture above not prove that Superman can fight at superspeed:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/3/36257/1170558-36.jpg

or this :

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/58664/1725091-superman709_016.jpg

what???? thinking like that makes no sense; fighting at superspeeds requires moving and reacting at that speed rate, not to mention fighting at that rate would require observation, perception; noticing every movement. Combat speed= Reaction Speed= Perception.

LOL those scans.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
AND the acid didn't touch him

True. Thats a high end feat onto itself

Plutonian's feat of perceiving a picosecond-long transmission, and proceeding to outrace said signal back to Modeus' base, always impressed me:
http://i.imgur.com/uy10ejN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bRm5VWw.jpg

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
Even leaving aside the fact that that is some weird twisting of words to make that a feat for post crisis supes, you are straight up using a non canon story for a feat Da ****? Where did you get that it's non canon?

And what twisting?

That's one of the continuity plot holes. Superman said he met someone named Zod for the first time in Last Son. He had previously fought someone named zod for six times. That doesn't mean all the previous stories are non canon. Superman said he would explode in a nanosecond. It happened earlier than that. What's dubious in that feat then? Are you trying to discard the whole feat because he said "his timing was a little off"?

So someone from CBR. I can post silver surfer and Gladiator needing help to go FTL too. Meaning all their speed feats go in toilet, right?

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
Nah dude not one scene. Im going to give the whole argument in a sec
As for that feat
1) we have only supermans word that its a nanosecond, and that too " I give myself ABOUT a nanosecond", rather vague. could be more, could be less Hey, "a nanosecond" is vague now?

So it happened before a nanosecond? So?

That's some really shitty logic. It was a superhuman baby of Ultraman and Superwoman.

And it certainly has nothing to do with the fact that you're from CBR where every superman feat of going FTL is considered PIS?

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
Ok here goes
Superman fainted from trying to go FTL in action 591 False, he fainted due to the stress of time travel along with Superboy.
On foot. That's still faster than someone like Gladiator has ever ran.
And him speeding out of a time stop in Superman 73.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_supermanwaverider1.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_supermanwaverider2.jpg


So?

Mark Waid doesn't think anybody sans Flash is FTL. That's like thinking everyone in marvel is slower than lightspeed because Mark Gruenwald had Runner left in dust at lightspeed.

Ironically, Superman Blue was explicitly FTL.

http://i.imgur.com/xqgioxZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/K39vSr8.jpg

And he was still slower than regular Superman.

Inside a black hole. Surfer thought he would be trapped inside one forever if not for shrinking into microverse. Heck, even Runner couldn't run out of one.
I don't know why you'd bring Jay in this. He would shit all over anyone not named Wally or Barry in feats.

http://i.imgur.com/8aW6e8Z.jpg

Nanosecond reaction time and Superman made him look like a statue.

http://i.imgur.com/6LLq7ru.jpg

That's an odd way to lowball.
Ran circles around Lightray in Superman Confidential.
That's some other odd way to lowball. She herself admitted that Superman has greater raw speed than her.
That's taken as gospel when the writer committed that he was writing Superman less powerful than usual. And he blitzed Amazo with the combined speed of Flash, himself and Diana.
Other than Zoloman, wrong on all accounts.


Haha, go here and educate yourself.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-601613-superman-crisis-to-crisis-revamped.html

Your opinion is sponsored by Pendaran?

Why do you guys ruin every thread?

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
Ok here goes
Superman fainted from trying to go FTL in action 591
His race with Wally, going all out had him topping out at several times the speed of sound
Various instances through the 90s of Waverider, the Linear Men etc freezing him in time just as example, action comics annual 3, ftl speed being a pre requiste for time travel in dc
the aforementioned jla 21 where he himself screams " Im not FTL" before proceeding to take speed from wally to achieve the same
the human race, where electric blue supes actually lags behind various lightspeed flashes
ok ....what else , superman 191 , dude barely approaches lightspeed
his race/chase vs Jay " slower than light, barely faster when going all out" Garrick
being called and shown in fights to be Adam/ Marvels equal , they of struggling to keep up with Jay approaching lightspeed fame
being called slower than lightray
being dianas speed equal( ignoring the batman rubbish), she of struggling to keep up with Jesse quick entering the speed force fame
being called slower than light by Dr Light
being consistenty blitzed by time travelling ftl types Wally, Barry , Zolomon


Basically throughout his post crisis career, supes has always been portrayed as the rough speed equal of Diana, Jonn, the marvels, Jay and most non wally west flashes, and all of them consistenty show just lightspeed reactions or in most cases, a little below that

so yeah, dudes slower than light imo

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Superman%20speed/FTL%20Feats/Space%20Flight

There's a few FTL examples from Superman. And those are just space flight. And not all of them. And being Diana's speed equal? Being shown to be Black Adam's/Captain Marvel's speed equal? Superman fighting them doesn't mean they were fighting at super speed. I don't even know of a straight-up fight they've had where speed was specified. Abhi posted Supes making Jay look like a statue. Superman also caught-up to an amped Jay when Jay temporarily stopped him with a speed steal, meaning he had to be faster than the amped Jay. And more. There's too many examples of Superman being FTL to buy your argument.

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
It happening in less time than supermans vague estimation and him failing to react to this, does leave the question of how fast he actually reacted, dangling tantalizingly doesnt it? and brilliantly leaves the question of whether he reacted in less than, more or exactly a nanosoecond, wonderfully answered and left free for speculation, nevermind his own statements of failing to do what he set out to do

Your argument rests on assuming the explosion taking LESS time to happen means he was slower than the scene showed.

Originally posted by Mindset
Why do you guys ruin every thread? Yeah, it's f*cking ridiculous.

Originally posted by Mindset
Why do you guys ruin every thread? Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, it's f*cking ridiculous.
Wut?

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, it's f*cking ridiculous.



I noticed you don't post as many Superman scans like you use too. Oh well, let's sit back and enjoy the show.

If someone can post fts of other characters, that would be great.

Originally posted by Mindset
Why do you guys ruin every thread?

I can't help being canadian damn it!!!

Originally posted by -K-M-
I can't help being canadian damn it!!! http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/06/i-will-find-you-and-i-will-kill-you-gif1.gifOriginally posted by abhilegend
Wut? Do you notice a difference between the first page and these last 2?

This happens a lot, and you seem to usually be involved.

Originally posted by Mindset
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/06/i-will-find-you-and-i-will-kill-you-gif1.gif Do you notice a difference between the first page and these last 2?

This happens a lot, and you seem to usually be involved.
So its my fault that some random guy came in here on 2nd page and started lowballing?

facepalm

Originally posted by abhilegend
Da ****? Where did you get that it's non canon?
i think i already made it clear, but again
1. its not from any monthly title, but a sequel to what was categorically an elseworlds story at the time
2. Superman meets Gog for the first time in his own monthly later, with no reference to this, and a different origin tale for Gog
3. Superman meets Kc supes in Thy Kingdom Come for the first time in a canon story with neither referencing this story arc, or the outcome of this story where the events of kingdom come never even came to pass by the end of it all, as opposed to the story in jsa



Oh im sorry. twisting isnt the correct word. more like speculating about vague STATEMENTS and interpreting them to best suit your character. which is actually the same as twisting

talking about stuff like " im a nanosecond ahead of you, " which comes across more as a figure of speech than anything, doesnt particularly seem a conclusive assessment of supermans speed at all to me, im afraid

agree to disagree on these sort of feats
something like the hal jordan one is a far better and clear cut feat( and also vastly inconsistent with any of his speed showings at that time, or indeed throughout his career)




i dont remember him saying that. issue no?
in any case this comes after an explicit retcon to the point of a new origin story , the return of the legion , superboy and various silver age elements and all the previous kandors being retconned to being imitations based on the original

supermans history was altered after infinite crisis and though far be it for me to waive away all the stuff preceeding this, sure he might not immediately recognise a Zod with a completely different origin, especially given the unique characteristics of each version, at least two of whom were alt universe versions

hey i checked their first meeting again. where does he say hes never heard of zod?


There was no retcon between the kingdom and gogs first canon appearance. the version of the story told in kingdom completely differs from the one in jsa, both of which branch off from the original kingdom come. and heck i dont recall a single reference to kingdom in a canon comic as opposed to the jsa storyline

see the difference between the two now?


It didnt happen "earlier". show me the scan that says "it went off earlier"

the only thing that happened was superman admitting his timing being off, which could mean a lot of things from supes not being fast enough to the blast going off earlier. only one thing is clear, and that is that supes didnt do the job properly

which casts reasonable doubt to the validity of the feat, and makes it in my opinion not a " clean feat" if you will, certainly given his history of otherwise proclaiming himself to be slower than light


Yes


Not really no

you can post scans of surfer /gladiator proclaiming themselves to be specifcally slower than light? go ahead, be my guest

because i can sure do the same for superman/ jay/ adam and /or wonder woman struggling to achieve lightspeed and in supes and jays case , specifically noting their own abiities to be slower than light

ive already made a longish post on this in this thread so im just going to say read my last post

Originally posted by abhilegend
So its my fault that some random guy came in here on 2nd page and started lowballing?

facepalm He can't keep replying to himself, can he?

facepalm

Originally posted by carver9
If someone can post fts of other characters, that would be great.

He doesnt do it anymore, cause everytime superman is mentioned, hordes of haters jump on board to lowball or attempt to debunk superman; creating a complete grade A s***storm

Originally posted by Mindset
Why do you guys ruin every thread? Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, it's f*cking ridiculous. Originally posted by carver9


I noticed you don't post as many Superman scans like you use too. Oh well, let's sit back and enjoy the show. the irony of you Carter acting high and mighty on this subject is a joke.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
the irony of you Carter acting high and mighty on this subject is a joke.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
the irony of you Carter acting high and mighty on this subject is a joke. No one is talking to you, dick breath.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
the irony of you Carter acting high and mighty on this subject is a joke.

http://tinyurl.com/q3nxnsf

Originally posted by Mindset
No one is talking to you, dick breath.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-k-wZ7IwRC1E/Uc_ViI-CfAI/AAAAAAAAQCQ/YBZqw-wh62Q/s385/shotsfired.gif

Originally posted by Delta1938
http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Superman%20speed/FTL%20Feats/Space%20Flight

There's a few FTL examples from Superman. And those are just space flight. And not all of them. And being Diana's speed equal? Being shown to be Black Adam's/Captain Marvel's speed equal? Superman fighting them doesn't mean they were fighting at super speed. I don't even know of a straight-up fight they've had where speed was specified. Abhi posted Supes making Jay look like a statue. Superman also caught-up to an amped Jay when Jay temporarily stopped him with a speed steal, meaning he had to be faster than the amped Jay. And more. There's too many examples of Superman being FTL to buy your argument.
Ok heres the thing
im not going to check out that photobucket album. with all due respect, im talking about reaction speed and not travel speed. so if you have examples of reaction speed there, tell me, and ill check it out. otherwise sorry, but this just seems like a waste of time. obviously supes can travel at ftl speeds in space, its when hes asked to outrace light waves, break into a ship and rescue the hostages before the speed-of thought telepaths react, that he starts screaming " im not ftl"

hmm, supes and marvel have been noted time and again 9 in the post crisis era) to be equals in every category just as one example in action 768

that and when one of them is not getting the drop on the other/ possessed by eclipso, they always fight evenly.

statements and fights are hardly conclusive and 90% of the time , stink of PIS( think Slade vs Wally) , but when they are consistently backed by feats you start to stand and notice

example- jay and supes race roughly evenly going all out, black adam does the same with jay. diana manages to keep up with jesse , supes does the same in electric blue form. supes says hes slower than light, jay says the same

so when statements , fights AND feats back it up, id argue my assessment of their speeds is correct

when has supes made jay look like a statue? issue no? can you show me the link/ scan please?


jay was..... amped. based. on . what.



No... thats not my assumption at all. whether the explosion took less time, or superman failed to react in time, is the focal issue here, given his sentence construction

in case its still not clear, im arguing for the latter, certainly his phrasing lends reasonabe doubt/ credence to my argument given his career

Originally posted by Delta1938
http://tinyurl.com/q3nxnsf



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-k-wZ7IwRC1E/Uc_ViI-CfAI/AAAAAAAAQCQ/YBZqw-wh62Q/s385/shotsfired.gif

Originally posted by Mindset
No one is talking to you, dick breath. Get ready to be called a "pedo"

Originally posted by Mindset
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/06/i-will-find-you-and-i-will-kill-you-gif1.gif Do you notice a difference between the first page and these last 2?

This happens a lot, and you seem to usually be involved. #

Things happen when I don't post.

Originally posted by Mindset
No one is talking to you, dick breath. you are seeing as you just replied to me race card

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Get ready to be called a "pedo" guilty conscience eh

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
i think i already made it clear, but again You didn't made anything clear kid.
And which featured regular character and the explanation to how it could happen aka Hypertime. Look it up.
That's a different Gog. Superman met Zod for the first time in Last Son too. Does that mean "For Tomorrow" "OWAW" and all those stories are non canon?
Sorry, but that's BS. That's Earth-22, a different universe. It resembles Kingdome Come, but isn't actually the same story. Kingdome Come is an alternate future of main DCU and was repeatedly shown as such in JSA and Justice League Generation Lost. And not mentioning it doesn't makes it non canon.



That's not the right word either. Its taking a statement at its face value. So everything Superman said was wrong there and he was just throwing nanoseconds for shits and giggles?

That's again a rather odd way of dismissing a feat. But do carry on, I'm enjoying this train-wreck.

Ok? It only makes you wrong though.
Haha, sure thing buddy.




Action Comics 846.
And the same happened with Kingdome Come and Earth 22. So, why the double standard?

Same with Earth 22 Superman, who is not the original KC Superman BTW. Its very confusing as even JSA issue mentions Gog seeing a future where Gog had killed various Supemen.



Action Comics 846.


Oh really? Here Superman fights KC Superman in a canon comic.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_SupermanBatman002Pg13.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_SupermanBatman002Pg14.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_SupermanBatman002Pg15.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_SupermanBatman002Pg16.jpg

Wait, Superman/Batman is non canon too?

And here is the reference to The Kingdom.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/18.jpg

DC one million also references The Kingdom.

http://i.imgur.com/g5PQbaD.jpg

Wait, DC one million is non canon too?


No?


Superman said it would give him one nanosecond to take the kid to safety and it went off earlier than that.


Because the boy released energy before a nanosecond. So?

So, it all boils down to dismissing the feat. I can show nearly every high herald claiming they are slower than light. Like Silver Surfer, so?


You need more than that kid.


That actually confirms it.

For starters.

http://i.imgur.com/MSiP86A.jpg

Want more?

That doesn't negates their actual speed feats which are beyond light speed. Its just inconsistency in the comics.

I read it. Its total bullshit.

Originally posted by Delta1938
http://tinyurl.com/q3nxnsf



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-k-wZ7IwRC1E/Uc_ViI-CfAI/AAAAAAAAQCQ/YBZqw-wh62Q/s385/shotsfired.gif

Please stop quoting him. I have him on ignore for a reason.

The amount of superman lowballing is becoming a series issue; people cant even bring up the WORD "Superman" without being rioted on by lowballers.

Well, carver's thread, carver's rules. If you can't follow them, make your own.

He specifically asked for impressive combat feats. If Blob/Superman/Aquaman/XYZ character doesn't have them, then don't cry about it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
False, he fainted due to the stress of time travel along with Superboy.
So you are going to ignore the bit where he notes superboy is moving at FTL speeds?
heh just answer this. when has any speedster in dc, any speedster at all actually moved through time without crossing the lightspeed barrier?
the whole thing in zero hour with wally specifically needing to cross lightspeed to time travel, never happened then?


Where does gladiator come into this?
i sense you have.....issues. chill man, no need to be defensive



So where do you feel it says hes speeding through a time stop in that issue?
oh wait a minute , its the same effect produced as in superman 61, as noted in the issue itself!

superman 61 where superman heroically ...............got frozen in time along with everyone else till Waverider allowed him to move

thats a great example there youve decided to pick







so your excuse is " man i hate this writer. why couldnt he have made my favr'it a FTL multiverse buster??!!".

brilliant. what about Dwayne McDuffie? Bryne? Steven Seagle? and these are just off the top of my head

face it pal, supes has been consistently written as being slower than light


And his blast being FTL translates to his reactions being FTL, how?
heck even thor can throw mjolnir at FTL speeds and then struggle in terms of actual reactions, vs logan



" Im going to talk about things that do not remotely translate to surfer specifically claiming hes slower than light after having claimed that i was going to post feats for the same"



Managing to think in nanoseconds, isnt particularly beyond someone like jay, who can push himself beyond lightspeed with great effort

the whole strategizing thing though comes across as somewhat dubious for someone who in his own words claims " im not FTL , only Wally is", and has to speed steal to achieve the same


And therein lies the problem. im not trying to lowball or anything. im just as much of a fan as you are. the difference is im actually debating this based on feats, while youre flaring up in self defence at the very thought of someone questioning supermans abilities

you are to put it bluntly, biased.

and saying that im lowballing someone by saying " they have LIGHTSPEED reflexes" is to put it mildly....an unnecessary reaction


The dubiously canon story that contradicts just to name one thing, superman vol 2 3 and all the legends stuff?


Sigh...not lowballing


Hmm ....where supes admitted she had better reactions? really? you actually want to count that rubbish?
Just so it isnt still clear, i was actually claiming supes was faster but diana had comparable feats


And was one of the first to go down. and diana outlasted him by quite some distance. and hal blew a hole through amazo. and even batman contributed


or: what has any of this (inconsistent) writing got anything to do with what im saying?



So ....Barry didnt leave him in the dust after his return?
wally didnt outrace Hv with a smile?



Seriously.... wait a second . are you the guy who created all those respect threads claiming superman could tank multiversal attacks and all?

Man....this does not look good..


Actually my opinion is my own based on years of reading superman comics
but carry on with your imaginary agenda if it pleases you

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
Ok heres the thing
im not going to check out that photobucket album. with all due respect, im talking about reaction speed and not travel speed.

Seems like you're changing things now that contradictory examples have been given.

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
so if you have examples of reaction speed there, tell me, and ill check it out. otherwise sorry, but this just seems like a waste of time. obviously supes can travel at ftl speeds in space, its when hes asked to outrace light waves, break into a ship and rescue the hostages before the speed-of thought telepaths react, that he starts screaming " im not ftl"

One: Examples of his reaction time/time perceptions have already been posted, including the one you keep arguing is invalid. Two: There's examples both before and after that contradict his "slower than light" with Wally. Both travel and time perception/reaction time examples.

But here's something you missed, that Abhi already posted.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Superman%20speed/Reflexes-Reaction%20Time-Time%20Perception/Nano_Second_Fraction

"--for a fraction of a nanosecond"

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
hmm, supes and marvel have been noted time and again 9 in the post crisis era) to be equals in every category just as one example in action 768

I can't think of any lip service(or feats/showings) saying that Captain Marvel was equal to Superman in speed. Funny enough though, that very comic you cited, Superman kept-up with Freddy despite his speed being amped.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Superman%20speed/Miscellaneous/AmpedCM3

I don't take "Turned up to a MILLION!!" literally, but pretty clear that Freddy is much faster than normal, even with power sharing in consideration. Also, one of the few speed comparisons I've seen had Superman as faster.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20speed/Miscellaneous/Miscellaneous/SUPERMAN-SHAZAM_FIRST%20THUNDER%202-PG06.jpg

"Not as quick" doesn't tell how much faster, and seems to be travel speed, but still saying Superman is faster. Also, Eclipso possessed Supes seemed to think he was far faster than Cap.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20speed/Miscellaneous/Miscellaneous/SUPERMAN_V2_216-PG10.jpg

Shit talking/hyperbole? Perhaps. Seems worth mentioning though. And speaking of Eclipso possession.....

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
that and when one of them is not getting the drop on the other/ possessed by eclipso, they always fight evenly.

If you're arguing it amps Superman, evidence doesn't support it, since Eclipso amps those by combining his energy with them. Something that doesn't work with Superman's solar energy. In fact, Eclipso Supes did poorly against Guy Gardner after getting solar matter dumped on him.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Captain%20Nazi%20exposure/Eclipso_Non-Amp

But I am digressing. Anyways, moving on.

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
statements and fights are hardly conclusive and 90% of the time , stink of PIS( think Slade vs Wally) , but when they are consistently backed by feats you start to stand and notice

Kinda contradicting yourself here.

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
example- jay and supes race roughly evenly going all out, black adam does the same with jay. diana manages to keep up with jesse , supes does the same in electric blue form. supes says hes slower than light, jay says the same

Check the whole race. Near the end, Jay speed steals from Superman, slowing him down and amping himself. Superman still closes the gap. Still loses a close race, but closing the gap with Jay amped would've meant he had to be faster than Jay.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Superman%20speed/Running/DC-FIRST

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
so when statements , fights AND feats back it up, id argue my assessment of their speeds is correct

So since Superman has statements and feats putting him as faster than the Marvels, would you concede on the he's equal to the Marvels in speed claim?

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
when has supes made jay look like a statue? issue no? can you show me the link/ scan please?

It was already posted, but here. Jay is under the Superman after image under Red Arrow(or whatever he was going by at the time). But since Superman is flying, I guess you'll call it a travel feat? Granted we don't know what speed he was going.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20speed/Miscellaneous/Miscellaneous/th_JLofA_V2_10-PG02-03.jpg

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
jay was..... amped. based. on . what.

Speed stealing from Superman, but not in the immediate example above.

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
No... thats not my assumption at all. whether the explosion took less time, or superman failed to react in time, is the focal issue here, given his sentence construction

in case its still not clear, im arguing for the latter, certainly his phrasing lends reasonabe doubt/ credence to my argument given his career

So basically you're arguing it's hyperbole because Superman was a little off?

Originally posted by carver9
Please stop quoting him. I have him on ignore for a reason.

**** YOU I DO WHAT I WANT!!!

Originally posted by Delta1938
**** YOU I DO WHAT I WANT!!!

can you stop quoting that psycho for me please? I don't communicate or like seeing post from a guy that doesn't know how to be positive...especially when he is talking about me. Now stop quoting him before I take some 101 classes on how to hack into Xbox live acts and post vids on your acct with me destroying you in COD.

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost

So ....Barry didnt leave him in the dust after his return?

Professor Zoom had effected Barry, making Barry leaving him in the dust questionable as his normal capability, shit talking comment or not.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Comparing/Professor_Zoom/REBIRTH/1-Barry-Max

Originally posted by carver9
can you stop quoting that psycho for me please? I don't communicate or like seeing post from a guy that doesn't know how to be positive...especially when he is talking about me. Now stop quoting him before I take some 101 classes on how to hack into Xbox live acts and post vids on your acct with me destroying you in COD.

*****, please. We've never even played a game together on LIVE, let alone you "destroy" me. You accused me of avoiding you when we didn't even have any games in common!! Epic fail.

Not the best feat but adding something else. Here aurora zigzags with ease between lightening bolts which were targeting her

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Two-in-One084_18.jpg

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
So you are going to ignore the bit where he notes superboy is moving at FTL speeds? And you are ignoring that it was specefically due to time travel that Superman fainted?
The Ray.
Different writers take different opinion on that. Wally has gone way beyond lightspeed and didn't travel in time.


Did I hit a nerve?



Inconsistencies man, they happen in the comics all the time.

And Superman 73, where he moved in a time freeze, despite Waverider doesn't wanting him to.

A low showing doesn't negates a high showing kid.







No, simply that he doesn't writes anybody else than Flash as lightspeed.

Both Dwayne and Seagle wrote him achieving lightspeed or faster.

Face it pal, Superman regularly flies through the galaxy. How can he be slower than light and still fly across the galaxy or even solar system?


That's not his blast, that's Superman himself flying faster than light. Can you read something?
Throwing something and actually flying faster than light are same now?



Wut? Why is the same principle not followed for surfer then? Did I hit a nerve?



And here I thought Jay was some slowpoke.

Haha, now every feat is dubious which happens to destroy your argument. That's wally talking dude.


I seriously doubt it. And you aren't?

When thy have literally dozen of examples and you're solely using one statement to negate them all? Yes, you are lowballing.


Its called a retcon dude. Superman himself claimed he was faster than Lightray in Doomsday wars.


Make it a mantra.


He didn't. Bruce did. And later Batman said Superman's reflexes are faster in Trinity.
No, she doesn't.


What does that has to do with anything? Amazo blasted him with red sunlight. What does all that has to do with speed?


That you are ****ing wrong?



Superman didn't raced him and caught him in Superman 709?
Superman didn't catch an out of control Wally in JLA Classified and Titans 10?



No.

For you? Sure.


Yeah, you are DEFINITELY from CBR.

Delta...you have a pretty good argument going on there...I just disagree with one of your scans though.

Hulk speedblitzing a pterodactyl.

I come into this thread to see some cool speed feats.

I was sadly disappointed...

Originally posted by carver9
Delta...you have a pretty good argument going on there...I just disagree with one of your scans though.

You would, wouldn't you?

Originally posted by Delta1938
You would, wouldn't you?

Yes, hater. Just accept the rest of my compliment.

No numbers, but still a beastly feat.

In the MIDDLE of fighting a bloodlusted, desperate Flash, Zoom LEAVES the battlefield, runs back to Keystone City, checks up on Linda, and then runs back. All without Wally, the fastest Flash, even noticing.

http://www.toplessrobot.com/twins-thumb.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Yes, hater. Just accept the rest of my compliment.

You deserve every bit of hate after claiming to know more about Superman than me.

Originally posted by Delta1938
You deserve every bit of hate after claiming to know more about Superman than me.

Even though that is true, when did I say that?

Originally posted by carver9
Even though that is true, when did I say that?

One: False. Two: It was on Xbox LIVE. Did you forget you saying you've read comics since the day you were born, said "I just looked at the pretty pictures" and me point-out, "And nothing has changed" too?

Originally posted by Delta1938
You deserve every bit of hate after claiming to know more about Superman than me. This is so petty

Originally posted by psycho gundam
This is so petty

hmm

Originally posted by Delta1938
One: False. Two: It was on Xbox LIVE. Did you forget you saying you've read comics since the day you were born, said "I just looked at the pretty pictures" and me point-out, "And nothing has changed" too?

I did say that huh?

Originally posted by carver9
I did say that huh?

Not only that, but admitted you set yourself up for it.

I like the feat where Karate Kid somehow dodges speed force infused lightning..after it hit him.

Originally posted by Surtur
I like the feat where Karate Kid somehow dodges speed force infused lightning..after it hit him. I...what?

Originally posted by Mindset
I...what?

Yep, exactly. Karate Kid is actually a really broken character. How does someone dodge something after it hits them? Because space karate, apparently.

Originally posted by Surtur
Yep, exactly. Karate Kid is actually a really broken character. How does someone dodge something after it hits them? Because space karate, apparently. Well...you can't dodge something after it hits you.

Unless one or two of those words now has a different meaning.

Originally posted by Mindset
Well...you can't dodge something after it hits you.

Unless one or two of those words now has a different meaning.

But these are comic book characters so crazy things happen. It is a mind f*ck though isn't it? Yeah, that gives you an idea of how insane Karate Kid could get.

Originally posted by Surtur
But these are comic book characters so crazy things happen. It is a mind f*ck though isn't it? Yeah, that gives you an idea of how insane Karate Kid could get. http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/06/I-dont-believe-you.gif

Okay, well, if you don't believe me that just means you haven't been exposed to the insanity that is the character of Val Armorr.

Originally posted by Surtur
Okay, well, if you don't believe me that just means you haven't been exposed to the insanity that is the character of Val Armorr.

Pics or it didn't happen. And while you're at it, t!ts or GTFO. 'Cuz.....uh.....um.....BOOBIES!!!

Originally posted by Surtur
Okay, well, if you don't believe me that just means you haven't been exposed to the insanity that is the character of Val Armorr. I am Val Armorr.

Originally posted by Mindset
I am Val Armorr.

Then I salute your space karate prowess. That one time you used a karate kick to stop an earthquake was awesome.

Yeah he's telling the truth happened in Justice League of America #10 (Vol.2)

Originally posted by Delta1938
Seems like you're changing things now that contradictory examples have been given.
Please point me to the part where i say superman does not have ftl travel speed


Oh I assure you its not just the one. ALL of them are invalid, for different reasons



Examples have also been given which support the wally feat , before and after said feat

again, i dare you to show me the scans thaat have superman saying " i have ftl reflexes"
because i can definitely show the man gauging his own abilities, and posing a specific limitation saying" im slower than light"

this is not a statement some other uninformed character is making. this is superman himself noting his own limitations , supported by feats AND the statements of others


Cool lets just ignore supes fainting from crossing the time barrier a year earlier, and him topping out at a few times the speed of sound going all out vs wally a couple of years later. lets ignore superman getting frozen in time by waverider throughout the 90s, and the wally feat 10 years later after an explicit power up. lets ignore superman taking days to move through a time dilation that does NOT stop jimmy olsens thrown rock , after his post death powerup

lets ignore everything and treat that as an actual feat, at that point in post crisis supes' career?

if he can move about casually in a TIME DILATION of a fraction of a nanosecond, why then does he struggle at all in moving through a measly nanosecond for that braniac feat?

you are simultenously claiming superman can casually overcome a TIME DILATION of a fraction of a nanosecond, but struggle to move in a non time dilated nanosecond

brilliant.



Freddy ....really? you are comparing Freddy " 1/3rd of the power of shazam" freeman to cap?
and supes literally notes his "teeth are rattling out of his head", with the effort of catching freddy
Hardly conclusive proof there being a noticeable speed difference between them

so the part where he notes " i SLOWED down enough to see LIGHT", never happened?
The part where Cm jr notes supes is faster and supes says " thats not true", never happened?

i mean, sure thats a speed comparision right there



Meh, vague observation made by someone else, contradicted by supes' own statements
in any case, stuff like this sits pretty nicely with " they have SIMILAR speed", espescially the adam/jay, supes/jay races


This is hilarious. theres literally NOTHING there to suggest supes is faster
eclipso says he can travel fast. thats just it. theres no comparision whatsoever with billys speed

in any case, moving to a city in an instant, is hardly an impossible feat for a dude who spells out words over the planet between sentences


Scans to show eclipso doesnt amp supermans energy? surely you didnt make this up based on nothing at all?


So basically you are making your own assumptions based on PIS fights wherein possessing a literal solar battery is apparently less harmful than solar matter, and thereby interpreting the same to suit your own character

real conclusive, this


How


Jay having a heart attack certainly helped him to close the unknown gap there

but more on that later
just to be clear, you are simultenously arguing that superman can barely race even with a non amped jay, but absolutely "catch up" with an amped jay and also simultenously make a non amped jay "look like a statue" , all in the same post

so supes is simultenously
1. wildly faster than jay to the point of making him look like a statue
2. as fast as jay, racing evenly with him
3. reasonably faster than jay to the point of "catching up" with an amped jay

nice. full marks for a consistent argument


Not especially no, given that you are ignoring the actual statements and feats and basing this loosely on observations by others


So a random artists interpretation of a fight ( which incidentally also features the likes of diana and karen as "statutes" relative to superman, written by the very writer who claimed diana had faster reflexes than supes), allows you to ignore the very ending of the story where Jay is specifically identified from the future as the fastest member in either group, to which he replies / shows that PG and supes have comparable speed?


Yeah you did a great job with THAT argument



Im saying superman did not react in EXACTLY a nanosecond, because of him saying " about a nanosecond", and then noting that his timing was a bit off

given his history of being unable to react at ftl speeds, and his timing being off, id say it was a little more than a nanosecond



oh and as for the prof zoom feat, that falls under the same category as " i outreacted wally west in sacrifice" for supes, ie , contradicted by their own independent feats and the fact that barry left him in the dust/ even mind controlled and LETTING for supes to catch him, casually outraced him for a while with a smile as supes busted a gut just to keep up

Originally posted by abhilegend
You didn't made anything clear kid.
Condescension is always a great way to begin a debate


So...absolutely nothing to do with a monthly then. well that at least answers the question

oh and i did "look it up". its listed as an Elseworlds


Correct . thats the one from the actual canon comics



Of course not. he absolutely did meet completely different zods in those stories and a completely different, unrelated version after an explicit reboot

on the other hand both the kingdom, and thy kingdom come follow on explicitly from the events of kingdom come, and only one of them is part of an actual storyline running through canon comics.



So ....an alternate future that never happened, at best
so why do you feel this should be counted as a feat for mainstream supes, given absolutely zero references to it , during the meeting between supes and KC Supes in thy kingdom come?




No but lets reverse this. do you think superman was throwing about " my timing was a bit off" for "shits and giggles?" no? what about " im not FTL!"

man the guy must have been in a desperate need of a chuckle with the lives of two people at stake

or do only those feats you dont like, get dismissed as " shits and giggles"?

so no. what im actually saying is what superman is actually saying. he gave himself ABOUT a nanosecond, and his timing was a little off. which , coupled with his history makes it a great feat for him, just not an EXACT nanosecond feat, or a FTL reaction feat


Heh. " a nanosecond passes." " Im a nanosecond ahead of you". "about a nanosecond"
the definition of iron clad , unquestionable feats, arent they?


Ill take that as a compliment, given the expertise youve been showing in the concept of " wrong" in this thread





Seriously? i told you there was nothing like what you said there
here's their first meeting in full

Zod: Hello Kal el....superman. or should i call you clark kent?
we have obtained glimpses into your life on this primitive planet for decades and yet ive never understood your motives for self degradation
your father would be disgraced to discover you masquerading as one of these sub kryptonians. youve embraced their culture and abandoned your own


Superman:...general zod?

zod: you know of me, kal el?

S: ive studied kryptons history. you are wearing prison uniforms.you and your friend are criminals who were exiled to the phantom zone
Z: we are not criminals!"

where from, exactly in this exchange, are you getting " Ive never met a zod before?"

or, how does this in any way contradict OWAW/ for tomorrow, and those completely different versions?



ill tell you why. both thy kingdom come and the kingdom follow on explicitly from the events of the elseworlds kingdom come. only of them happens in canon comics

the zod from last son has no relation to OWAW or For Tomorrow, or even the bryne version. it contradicts / clashes with none of those versions. we dont HAVE to choose last son or OWAW as exactly one of two canon stories

but the KC sequels vary explicitly from each other. only one of these versions is canonically possible. hence im going with the jsa canon version


Which works just fine given the whole "torture/ fake kill supes for 500 years" story

and the earth 22 superman is explicitly the same guy from the end of kingdom come




No



Given that a fair bit of that series was spent mucking about in alt universes at a time alt universes were not supposed to exist in dc continuity.....mmmm

oh, and that superman was loosely based on the kc version at best,



Thats actually a very vague reference but anyway, issue no?


Well the events of both kingdom come and the kingdom would totally make dc one million non canon
as it is, it was a tempora anomaly, that never came to pass, much like waverider observing the various alt universe versions of supes through the 90s and hence non canon




Well i tried.
one last time.
only one of the two versions can possibly be canon without contradicting the other, as opposed to those other examples


Or did supermAn react late?


scans that say he released it EARLIER?
what exactly are you basing this on, other than you interpreting " my timing was a bit off" to mean the boy reacted earlier

why or why would i not be wrong in saying " superman reacted late", give what the expression my " timing was off" could mean?


Scans of the silver surfer proclaiming his own speed to be slower than light?
come on, i dare you



No



I Actually post more often on comicvine, but whatever helps you deal with loss


....
ok ill explain it in terms of the one character you do know about
superman in seagles run, searches for cir el at " near lightspeed". that by itself does not mean superman is LIMITED to the speed of light. thats him making a statement about his speed, not placing a limit

however. when superman explicitly places himself below lightspeed in JLA, when Dr light explicitly notes that superman is below lightspeed in vol 2, that , coupled with a history of similar limitations , makes him slower than light.

if you manage to show me scans of say silver surfer or post 2000 wally explicitly saying they cannot cross the speed of light, THEN id agree that they are not FTL, if they themselves gauge themselves as slower than light beings

so unless we actually see a speedster screaming " im not FTL", there is no reason to discredit their feats or provide them FTL status if they do have the feats

superman noting hes specifically under lightspeed casts his feats in an unfavourable light, and given most of them are not clear cut feats certainly doesnt help, nor him fainting through time travel, getting blitzed by people who dont fee the need to say " im slower than light", only running even with similar sublight speedsters etc only adds to this case

theres a long list of things as already noted, but superman earmarking himself as sublight is certainly one of the main factors


Provided they dont have contradictory feats, sure

unfortunately superman has a lot of contradictory stuff to go against his couple of clear cut feats


What an enlightened opinion

Originally posted by abhilegend
And you are ignoring that it was specefically due to time travel that Superman fainted?
which takes ftl speeds to achieve. as noted by supes himself.
" ....Fast enough to exceed the speed of light! fast enough to cross the time barrier under his own power!
it doesnt take a giant intellect to guess thats just what hes PREPARING to do now. got to get to him before he reaches FULL SPEED.."

its clear from the dialogue that FTL speed was what facilitated the time travel in the first place, given DCs history of that being a pre requisite for the same and supermans own statements to the effect

nothing like ftl speed and time travel being two separate things, like you are suggesting. crossing the speed of light was what made him faint period.


When.


Yea...ftl speed is a pre requisite for time travel, not vice versa

hence the various flying bricks have great travel speed feats, without moving through time

on the other hand, no one has moved through time on speed alone without crossing the lightspeed barrier to the point of entire arcs being devoted to the same, where its specifically mentioned as the all important criterion ( zero hour, the js arc where jay moved baack to the future from ancient egypt, etc)


No but apparently i did




Er no..?
Time stops. the editor tells us its the same effect from superman 61
superman 61, where superman was frozen in time, till waverider released him
and here waverider starts off by not having him frozen in time


wheres the inconsistency, beyond you wildly clutching at straws that dont exist in the first place?
nowhere in the comic does it say that supes is using his speed to overcome the effect. its heavily implied that waverider is allowing him to move, with the reference to the previous issue where er....waverider allowed him to move




Scans of waverider "doesnt wanting him to move?"
come on, i dare you. surely, this cant be (yet) another thing you made up, can it?

heck just answer this. later in the same issue, when supes is trapped in a time stasis, and explicitly notes " cant move..." , who was the dude who allowed him to move? hint: the name starts with "wave" and ends with "rider'






So you are now calling your own handpicked example, a low showing now.heh



He certaintly wrote supergirl moving at 99% the speed of light in space, just as one example


well that certainly ignores the time mcduffie specified his reactions as being slower than light or seagle had him, with a tremendous effort only approach the speed of light


Thats because he IS ftl. his maximum speed is way beyond the speed of light

its just that he cannot react at these speeds. sure, he can fly through space at a million times lightspeed, where i dunno the chances of colliding with even our solar systems asteroid field are .....one in a billion , but no way does that translate to actual ftl reflexes

think of it as a pilot flying an aircraft, at i dunno the speed of sound or something. that in no way implies that the pilot could i dunno...write a letter at the speed of sound.
but thousands of miles of empty space? sure he could fly at that speed, and heck even avoid something in his path, if he gets a radar warning or whatever

something a guy with microscopic/telescopic vision/ super hearing really has no problems with



So lets check the words again from superman 123
" faster than light...
a BLAST of fierce surging energy is FIRED"
we see a blast leaving his hands
we see a blast, and not a body moving towards the guy
we see the blast drop him in the river, with the buildings in the background
we see superman still among the buildings

are seriously saying now that supes FIRED himself as a blast?


No. but firing energy blasts is comparable enough





I see that was too difficult for you to understand
so in simple words
you claimed you were going to show instances of surfer noting his own speed to be slower than light
what you actually posted, is nothing like your claim


or to put it even more clearly
surfer claiming he cant escape a black hole ,in no way translates to him being slower than light





No its dubious because it contradicts his own estimation of his own abilities, and his showings throughout his career

just like , to pick your favourite character, surfer beating two galactus level beings by manipulating the energies of the big bang itself, is dubious considering his history of showings and his own admissions about the limitations of his power in comparison to galactus



nope.


When you are ignoring the dozens of examples provided and producing feats from non canon comics, or flat out posting scans that contradict the very things you say, id say im more than justified on my stand on the matter



Heh ...flying through space from the earth to the moon translates to reaction speed now.Not to mention a statement contradicted by actual feats



he accepted it


Sure she does
and while we are talking about "waay out there feats" , that contradict consistent feats over decades, diana deflecting the shards that crossed the universe in moments is pretty ridculously above supes' feats

i dont really care for such feats, but hey everything goes apparently




So lets see
you talk about batmans comments on their speeds
i say i dont really care for them
you say they are totally legit and proceed to babble on how superman totally rocked amazo and how this was a more powerful version or whatever
i said no, amazo was reaally inconsistent in the arc, and supes was one of the first to go down

you respond with " you are f***ing wrong!"

i mean...seriously?



The issue that ended with barry noting he LET him catch him?
the issue where Barry searched the continent five times looking for superman to catch him and help him?
great example


Supes sure caught him off panel at a time wally could move only in a fixed path and couldnt change this path, something diana used to beat him an issue laater
havent read titans 10, but even assuming this was an actually feasible feat for a change, considering stuff that wildly contradicts it , conisistently, since the 2000s from their respective feats to wally outracing HV to supes struggling with all his might to catch up with a depowered wally, im not sure what argument you are putting forward here other than " PIS counts cuz Superbro!"




Heh. non canon rubbish. dubious twisting of statements rather than actual feats. scans that contradict your own claims. references with context omitted.


sure youre doing a great job so far


I actually post on the vine more often but hey, the conspiracy theories must sure help with the pain of dealing with utter defeat

Originally posted by carver9
The title explains it all. What is the best quantifiable combat speed ft you can think of. No PC fts can be used here. Fts has to be done via combat. No flying here. This is all reflexes/movement speed.

One I can think of is...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/81052/1489354-hyp3.jpg

Gladiator combating at light speed.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Where does it say they are fighting at lightspeed?

lmao

carver always tries to pull a flt hat trick around here, but it rarely works when DS is on the clock.

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/twinzeeto/More%20Miscellany/MightyAvengers2013-005-012_zps3d9d38ab.jpg

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/twinzeeto/More%20Miscellany/MightyAvengers2013-005-013_zpsc8a8ce58.jpg

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/twinzeeto/More%20Miscellany/MightyAvengers2013-005-014_zps31024692.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16636492_Indestructible_Hulk_13_015.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16636494_Indestructible_Hulk_13_016.jpg

Superman is faster than Teleportation and far faster than any DB char ever made. But that's clear as day if you read comics. Anyway.

Ok, I'll enjoy breaking you into pieces.

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
Condescension is always a great way to begin a debate Why thank you, good sir.


I forgot only a monthly can be canon now. Is that the new CBR rule?

The Kingdom? Are you sure?

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090107152629/marvel_dc/images/2/24/The_Kingdom_%28Collected%29_Vol_1_1.jpg


Where is the elseworld logo kid?
So, its canon now. Move along.



So he does he meet KC Superman in Kingdom and Superman/Batman and THEN in JSA after a reboot.

And that's not after a reboot? After all, DC one million referenced Kingdom, so both must be non canon, right?



Gog traveled to main timeline to kill Captain Atom when that feat happened. Its not in the future.
Because that's not why a comic is considered non canon because some later story fails to reference it. You are pulling a very desperate maneuver here.




What's that has to do with anything? Under Waid anybody other than Flash is slower than light.

Sure thing. Lets just speculate and thus deny a feat.

I don't disregard any feat.

So basically "I deny this feat, so it never happened". Cool story bro.


Yep. Considering they are from someone who knows what he is talking about.


Take it however you want, you're still just wrong.





From the look of confusion over him and the fact that he never references that he has met anyone Zod before. The fact that he had to learn Zod from history books when he had actually met Zod in Superman 215 doesn't tell you that this was the first time he met Zod?

Because Superman doesn't has to learn of Zod from history books.



Both of them happened in canon comics, you silly goose. Just because you declare one to be non canon doesn't mean its non canon.

Haha, this is pure gold. Have you even any idea what you are talking about?

Not really. But all this mental gymnastic just to invalid one feat? My, my, aren't we desperate here.

Which never happened due to the fact that the older Gog erased that timeline.

Not really. He is from a parallel universe which resembles Kingdom Come because Mr. Mind ate a bit of its history in 52. Kingdom Come is shown to be a future of dcu in JSA 80 and JLA generation lost.




Great comeback.



And the same series introduced Supergirl? Are you ****ing serious right now?

Hahaha, sure thing buddy. But why didn't Superman say in Thy Kingdom come "Hey I fought someone like you a few years ago in Batcave?"



DC one million 2.




Now everything is non canon. Good going kid, soon you'll turn entire post crisis history non canon.




And so everything is non canon now? Because I can cite at least a dozen monthly comics referring DC one million which would make them non canon IYO. Thus rendering everything connected to them non canon. Thus everything would become non canon.





That's not what happened. You are essentially saying Superman had no idea of what he was talking about.


The very next scan depicts it going off before Superman could go through. Its not enough to discredit the whole feat.
The comic?

Get a grip dude. That was just a jumble of words.


I posted them already.



Great comeback again.



Ooh, that shattered me y'know.


Why not? Superman limits himself on earth due to collateral damage he causes on earth at that speed. Later in the very same arc, Surfer got nearly killed because he couldn't escape a black hole.

So two instances makes him slower than light and they overweigh everything else?

Good. Here you go.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_GalactusTheDevourer2-19.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_GalactusTheDevourer2-21.jpg

Surfer feared he would get trapped inside a black hole forever.


He also needs Nova's help to go FTL.

http://i.imgur.com/i2nvg4I.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qMHmFDd.jpg

Two examples. There, Surfer is proven to be slower than light.

And one statement doesn't negates years of feats.

Silver Surfer has been blitzed by Spider-man three times and couldn't even touch him while he was bloodlusted. So how fast is he again?

So, hanging on for a single statement for dear life now?


But Superman doesn't get that luxury? I wonder why.

He doesn't. Everybody has low feats.


You're welcome.

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
which takes ftl speeds to achieve. as noted by supes himself. No, it takes more than faster than light speed. It takes speed enough to cross the time barrier.
Two distinct things. Superman has gone FTL numerous times. He can't time travel by them.
And it takes place in an era where hyperspace and FTL travel hurt Superman badly. Good thing he got amped later.

Then why doesn't Superman goes in time when he crosses the solar system or the galaxy?

pquote]nothing like ftl speed and time travel being two separate things, like you are suggesting. crossing the speed of light was what made him faint period. Sure thing bro. Nothing like superman himself noting that it was time travel which made him so weak can get in your way.


In his own series, of course.


Why not?

So why is Superman singled out?

Except The Ray. And Jay moved through time by going into speed force, which is beyond lightspeed and time barrier.


You only hit your head while you were a baby.




That's a pretty neat fanfiction. The fact that Waverider didn't know that Superman was there and he inteneded nobody to notice him apparently flew over your head.




Your fanfiction doesn't counts as a fact kiddo.
Where is it implied kid? And later in the same comic, Superman moved in a sphere in which time didn't even exist. He should've been frozen there too, right?




You can't read, can you? Superman directly says that "Only he is moving as if the time has stopped." That's not due to his speed? What next?

Those were stasis beams. You'll note that for someone frozen in time, Superman speaks up very nicely.






Da ****?



That's not FTL. Better luck next time kid.


Or when he had him traverse lightyears in less than three hours in Action Comics 847.


Ok? That's a little bit of progress.

And back to square one. We'll get you there kid.

So Superman pilots his own body? That's just a great analogy.
So just random theories? How did he fight wonder woman from earth to sun and back in less than two minutes then?

Haha, in the vacuum of space?



That's after the narration explicitly notes that he is going that fast. Read the previous page which I posted kiddo.
Haha, are you blind or what?

This isn't Superman flying towards "the guy"?

http://i.imgur.com/xqgioxZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/K39vSr8.jpg

I don't even know whether to laugh or pity you.

No, he moved faster than light as explicitly noted.


Wut?





Oh really? Check above buddy.


And why not? Just because you say so?





That's a lot of generalization. Back to that "one statement" though.

No, its not. Its just a very high end feat.



Great comeback again.


You have nothing at this point. Just "one statement" from Mark Waid.



And Lightray saying he is faster than Superman is a feat now? On what basis is Lightray faster than Superman?



Nope.


The same shards human steve trevor outran for a while? Yeah, you have no idea what you are talking about again.

Apparently you do.




Due to weakness exploitation. Not due to speed.

When all you can do is that pitiful "Superman went down first when you have nothing else to lowball.". That's what you deserved.

Totally seriously. You are just trolling now.

And the fact that its based on absolutely nothing and Barry couldn't stop himself at all is contradictory in itself. I mean if he was so much in control that he let something happen, why not just stop yourself Barry?
When Superman had no idea of Barry in that condition? Yeah, great example dude.


You have no idea of what you are talking about. He was going all out in a fixed path. Superman raced him and caught him. Diana anticipated him and struck him. That's just two far different examples.

Yeah, because Superman isn't allowed to have high end feats. And when all else fails, scream PIS.




And all you did was shake your head in denial at every superman feat. Good job at making a fool out of yourself.


You are doing a better job though. Of looking like a lowballer.


Haha, the bitter tears finally let through. Go back to where you come from boy, unless you want some more asskicking.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ok, I'll enjoy breaking you into pieces.

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost



Want some more of that?

Originally posted by abhilegend


Want some more of that?

no...i dont actually want any more of that. i was debating whether or not to actually reply to some of the crazy mental gymnastics going on here, and this is pretty much going to be my last exchange on the matter with you

most of these desperate monosyllabic non- responses boil down to inane, puerile insuts and " so? I dont care"s that expose you for the 14 year old superman nuthugger that you are, and dont bear responding to. this is a public forum, and your twisting of your own scans and statements are obvious to all..

but...
surfer struggling to escape from a black hole has nothing whatsoever on panel to indicate a limitation or flat out denial of his own speed, beyond inferences made by you
surfer needing novas help to cross the time barrier contradicts his earlier feats, and comes more than decade after he crossed time multiple times on his own, in the very series that started with him going FTL to rescue Nova. theres no indication whatsoever , that he hadnt already crossed the speed of light before reaching time travel speeds, and most important of all, this isnt a flat out denial of ftl reactions

ex- jay needing to steal speed to cross the time barrier does not by itself, discount his reflexes, its him saying specifically " im slower than light", that contradicts the other stuff

FTL speed is a requirement for time travel. Time travel is not a requirement for FTL speeds

all feats count as long as they are not flat out denials. which pretty much brings us to the issue of canonicity of the kingdom.

its discounted solely for specifically contradicting the ending of another canon story when both branch off from the same story

superman meeting KC supes in the kingdom and batman/ superman and then again, thy kingdom come does not simultaneously hold unlike the Zod stuff because each gives a variant version of the ending of the same story as opposed to something as trivial as " i used to know a totally different guy named Zod" NOT being stated and " hey youre the kryptonian general zod "being stated

one million referenced a possible alternate future , the kingdom version, that never came to pass, to the point of directly being contradicted by later stories from something as casual as Damien and the Ibn guy to the one million future itself as opposed to an alternate universe version that ran through canon comics

the story is not non canon because "they fail to reference it", just like OWAW is not non canon because supes " fails to reference it". it is non canon because it contradicts post crisis continiuity massively to the point of having a totally different ending to the version of the same story that appeared in mainstream post crisis continuity

" From the look of confusion on his face( which BTW does not actually exist in the comics", is not the same as an actual denial or something that massively contradicts post crisis continuity, and seriously " look of confusion on his face " is just a classic example of your ever increasing desperation in this thread

and yes its an alternate universe version, which is what makes it canon, as opposed to the vastly contradicted alternate future version

batman/superman series sure introduced supergirl before proceeding to divert along some....interesting pathways

but sure its canon, given it doesnt wildly contradict post crisis history

just like surfers feats count. just like OWAW counts. as long as its not a flat out denial., its fine


other than this... mmm
Jay specifically needed to steal speed to cross the lightspeed barrier and enter the speed force

id like the ray scan and i asked for the issue no for the other scan and not the one million scan

lightray blitzing the crap out of him in the action comics legends tie in ( 585 iirc) certainly supports the claim, which was BTW confirmed by Metron in superman 128

also, barry couldnt stop moving. so he did the next best thing, which is find superman, run around him and LET him catch him, as noted by Barry in the very issue

the rest is just you shooting yourself in the foot, contradicting your own statements, coming up with petty monosyllabic non-responses and insults instead of an actual argument, distorting or in cases, falt out ignoring your own scans and feats, as is pretty much obvious to all

everyone can see the scans posted and arguments made, and can judge for themselves

have a nice one mate, im done here

2 people in this thread are about to see some of my combat speed feats.

Originally posted by Mindset
2 people in this thread are about to see some of my combat speed feats.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/bununs/smileys/0_rofl_9781.gif~original

lol Hulk. You know time dilation is a crock of shit when Hulk can overcome it.

Though that feat was used seriously so Hulk is super duper fast

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
lol Hulk. You know time dilation is a crock of shit when Hulk can overcome it.

Though that feat was used seriously so Hulk is super duper fast

Thanos had some pretty Uber combat speed feats when he was slapping hulk around.

First of all, nice rant.

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
no...i dont actually want any more of that. i was debating whether or not to actually reply to some of the crazy mental gymnastics going on here, and this is pretty much going to be my last exchange on the matter with you Copying me wouldn't do anything for you kiddo.

So you say. Why don't you tell where I twisted all those scans.

And surfer himself denying his ability to go FTL and asking for Nova's help doesn't mean anything too?
So does Superman stating he can't go FTL. But LOL at this double standard. It is. He directly said he needs Nova's help to go FTL and travel in time. So there you go.

But apparently Surfer is immune to that.

You're simply speaking gibberish at this point.

Which don't count for much. You are acting like one denial overrules every feat ever. It doesn't.

Nope, its simply not referenced. Because its from a future of KC timeline.

That didn't even made any sense. You are arbitarily taking one story as canon and other non-canon simply because you don't like it.

What are you babbling about now?

Many stories contradict post crisis continuity. Its a mess, that's why several soft reboots and SBP punching time to explain everything.

It doesn't makes them non canon.

Haha, simply repeating yourself now? Good tactic.

Again, made no sense whatsoever.

It went that way afterwards you silly goose. Before that its strictly in the main DCU.

Kingdom doesn't either. You are just exaggerting its effect.

So it all boils down to one comment?


So did Silver Surfer.

I'm looking for it. Not as easy as you think to find the torrents.

Lightray never blitzed Superman in that issue. And Metron didn't confirm shit. Its just Lightray saying he was faster than Superman.

Why didn't he just stop if he was so much in control then? Because if he could slow himself down for Superman to catch him as you are cliaming, he could slow himself down to stop too. That didn't happen.

Its just a boast to save face.

Concession accepted kid.

Go back to where you come from kid, this is just the beginning if you don't stop trolling.

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
Please point me to the part where i say superman does not have ftl travel speed

Then why make such a big deal about Superman saying he's not faster than light? That example was a travel speed feat. so you're contradicting yourself. Unless you're going to argue because Superman grabbed a couple people? That would be a weak justification.




Pretty consistently you've given "I don't like it" or "I don't realize I don't understand the example" as reasons they're invalid. Neither are reasonable arguments.



So you're saying Superman's feats don't count, but others do? Well, you'll say no. You'll also lie. Or you actually believe it. Which isn't a good thing.



I don't have that exact wording, but I can show you him saying he can measure time between nanoseconds, which would definitely be FTL. An example of him saying about "by the nanosecond" was presented. But I'm guessing that you won't accept either because they contradict your preconceived notions.

So I guess feats you don't like don't count. Gotcha dude.




You mean with Pocketverse Superboy? But regardless, that argument is assuming that you barely have to break lightspeed to work.



Any examples? The only time I can recall Waverider freezing time around Superman, it didn't stop him.



What does vaguely referring to examples without giving issue reference or even details prove?



Issue reference?



Do you even read before hitting "Reply" or did you just hit it and respond sentence-by-sentence?



I'm failing to see the relevance of teeth chattering here.



So basically you're ignoring that the Power Of Shazam is being screwy, and Freddy is so fast he can't control himself, yet Superman still catches up. Superman regularly gives undeserved lip service to inferiors. Part of his character to be humble and kind and all that. How Ma and Pa raised him. The point of this is an amped(to the point he couldn't control his speed) Freddy was still caught by Supes. I find it amusing that you bring-up power sharing, when I already did, and pointed-out it was messed with and Freddy was far faster than normal.



"I have no relevant counter, so I'll just act like it's no big deal." One of the few examples where speed has been compared, it was said Superman was faster. Deal with it.



Rereading this considering what you argued before made me laugh.




Look at it again.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20speed/Miscellaneous/Miscellaneous/SUPERMAN_V2_216-PG10.jpg

"In the blink of even YOUR eye--"

If he only said "blink of an eye" you would have a point. But he said "--even YOUR eye--" meaning Captain Marvel. Shit talking/hyperbole? Perhaps. But it doesn't change the fact that the MEANING is "I'm much faster than you."

You either merely skimmed it and didn't properly read it. Or you did, but didn't understand it. Or you did properly read it, did understand it, and dishonestly omitted that piece of information, because you realized he is saying "I'm a lot faster than you," even if it's just hyperbole shit talk. Which option is it? Didn't read, didn't get, or lied?




Eclipso amps those by combining his energy(which I showed in the link), it's well known solar energy hurts Eclipso, and Superman is a solar battery. Meaning, their energy won't mix. What part don't you understand? Prove the fight with Guy Gardner is a PIS fight instead of Eclipso-Supes being hurt 'cuz Eclipso is hurt by solar energy. The entire reason Guy went to the Sun was because he figured that solar matter would hurt ECLIPSO-Superman.




Perhaps "contradicting yourself" isn't the best example. Basically you're setting the standards so inconsistently that you can pick and choose what you want to accept and what doesn't count.




This is why I laughed. You're wrong. Though to be fair I didn't include the scan that explains the heart attack.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Captain%20Nazi%20exposure/Miscellaneous/DC1ST_FLASH-SUPERMAN%201-PG30.jpg

So Jay got the heart attack from the nanobots, which didn't infect him until he touched Wally. Which means the heart attack made no contribution whatsoever.

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
but more on that later
just to be clear, you are simultenously arguing that superman can barely race even with a non amped jay, but absolutely "catch up" with an amped jay and also simultenously make a non amped jay "look like a statue" , all in the same post

so supes is simultenously
1. wildly faster than jay to the point of making him look like a statue
2. as fast as jay, racing evenly with him
3. reasonably faster than jay to the point of "catching up" with an amped jay

nice. full marks for a consistent argument

In their race, as well as other races Superman has had, there was a back and forth. Sometimes one getting ahead, sometimes the other, sometimes it being even. Happens a lot. Fact is Superman was closing the gap when Jay was amped on speed. Was it he tried harder? Dropped mental blocks? Who knows? It's a fact though that Superman was catching-up to an amped Jay(I said catching up, not caught up and won), meaning he would've been going faster than Jay. Deal with it.

Also, your complaint about the statue thing is when Superman was more powerful(so almost certainly faster as well) than when him and Jay raced.




What statements? What feats? Superman often says nice shit about his inferiors. So? What feats? You argue that Captain Marvel or Black Adam have matched him in combat speed. I've never seen a straight-up fight with super speed being used. Just because they fight evenly in speed doesn't mean a thing unless you assume their fights are at super speed. Which I doubt you can prove.

So unless you have a fight I'm unaware of where they do conclusively fight at super speed, well, I'm not seeing anything but assumption on your part. I provided actual examples. One of which you couldn't even argue against correctly. You would've done better arguing it was hyperbole/shit talking than the argument you made.




So, Superman is the only one with after images there, and you say it doesn't count because it's a "random artist interpretation of a fight?"

And you got the wrong writer. JLofA V2 #10 was written by Brad Melt. You're thinking of the late Dwayne McDuffie, making this automatically an invalid argument.

Don't remember what Jay said. I'll take a look later and see how accurate you got it.




I suggest the next time you're going to use how a writer portrays characters as your counter-argument, you make sure you're talking about the same writer instead of two different writers.



Except the distance means even if he was off by several nanoseconds, which is pretty dumb to argue, he'd have still been thinking much faster than light.



Professor Zoom was altering Barry. Thus the argument is invalid. If anything it's feat that Superman was keeping-up with Barry at all, instead of a valid argument on your end. It's funny you did this since you accused Abhi of mental gymnastics.

Oh, and prove Barry let Superman catch him. Pretty stupid to think that since Barry couldn't actually control himself.

Originally posted by carver9
The title explains it all. What is the best quantifiable combat speed ft you can think of. No PC fts can be used here. Fts has to be done via combat. No flying here. This is all reflexes/movement speed.

One I can think of is...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/81052/1489354-hyp3.jpg

Gladiator combating at light speed.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Where does it say they are fighting at lightspeed?

Carver you dodged this multiple times from DS and myself.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Carver you dodged this multiple times from DS and myself.

His lack of knowledge or comprehension on what nanosecond means. Also, he missed it was plural, not single nanosecond. The best he can hope for is near-lightspeed.

Originally posted by Delta1938
His lack of knowledge or comprehension on what nanosecond means. Also, he missed it was plural, not single nanosecond. The best he can hope for is near-lightspeed.

This makes me believe how he over hypes all showings in which do not exist, and low balls the one on the other side he choses to ignore..

Carv, this is not going away, how/where does it say they are fighting FTL?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
This makes me believe how he over hypes all showings in which do not exist, and low balls the one on the other side he choses to ignore..

Carv, this is not going away, how/where does it say they are fighting FTL?

If the narration on nanoseconds is legit, they're certainly fighting fast. But not FTL.

Originally posted by Delta1938
His lack of knowledge or comprehension on what nanosecond means. Also, he missed it was plural, not single nanosecond. The best he can hope for is near-lightspeed. I worked this one out before. At best it's lightspeed factoring in how much light moves in a nanosecond, and how they were only striking a couple feet in like 2 movements in nanoseconds. In the time it took for Hype to strike back against Glads, nanoseconds passed.

So lightspeed at best hand speed. And then their flight speed was shit.

Decent feat. Overplayed a little though.

If it was lightspeed that had to have happened in like 4 nanoseconds off the top of my head judging by Hype's posture and then how far his punch traveled.

Originally posted by Delta1938
If the narration on nanoseconds is legit, they're certainly fighting fast. But not FTL.

Exactly.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I worked this one out before. At best it's lightspeed factoring in how much light moves in a nanosecond, and how they were only striking a couple feet in like 2 movements in nanoseconds. In the time it took for Hype to strike back against Glads, nanoseconds passed.

So lightspeed at best hand speed. And then their flight speed was shit.

Decent feat. Overplayed a little though.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I worked this one out before. At best it's lightspeed factoring in how much light moves in a nanosecond, and how they were only striking a couple feet in like 2 movements in nanoseconds. In the time it took for Hype to strike back against Glads, nanoseconds passed.

So lightspeed at best hand speed. And then their flight speed was shit.

Decent feat. Overplayed a little though.

If it was lightspeed that had to have happened in like 4 nanoseconds off the top of my head judging by Hype's posture and then how far his punch traveled.

Roughly a foot a nanosecond.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Roughly a foot a nanosecond. Yeah. So Hype punched the overextended 3 feet or so. And you give a nanosecond or so for the block and recover. 4 nanoseconds sounds about right for it to be lightspeed.

But that's assuming that's how long it took. It could have been 2, or it could have been 90. It's not concrete. I have no issue with them being capable of the lightspeed fighting, but you have to factor in that that's only relevant from actual punching distance since their shitty flight in the same instance.

srug

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Yeah. So Hype punched the overextended 3 feet or so. And you give a nanosecond or so for the block and recover. 4 nanoseconds sounds about right for it to be lightspeed.

But that's assuming that's how long it took. It could have been 2, or it could have been 90. It's not concrete. I have no issue with them being capable of the lightspeed fighting, but you have to factor in that that's only relevant from actual punching distance since their shitty flight in the same instance.

srug



Maybe I should read it, and time myself.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Yeah. So Hype punched the overextended 3 feet or so. And you give a nanosecond or so for the block and recover. 4 nanoseconds sounds about right for it to be lightspeed.

But that's assuming that's how long it took. It could have been 2, or it could have been 90. It's not concrete. I have no issue with them being capable of the lightspeed fighting, but you have to factor in that that's only relevant from actual punching distance since their shitty flight in the same instance.

srug

But they really just wanted to make out and all this was foreplay.

Originally posted by Delta1938
But they really just wanted to make out and all this was foreplay. Obviously. They were rubbing each other's hair sensually. If Hype didn't pass out from the passion, Glads would have inside outed his anus

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Obviously. They were rubbing each other's hair sensually. If Hype didn't pass out from the passion, Glads would have inside outed his anus

And I think that's enough Internet for one day.

can we please count the number of times Abhi has misrepresented a scan or flat out interpreted it wrong? The speed in which he does this might be the winning feat here.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
can we please count the number of times Abhi has misrepresented a scan or flat out interpreted it wrong? The speed in which he does this might be the winning feat here.
The times you have refused to post any scans at the speed is above all though.

And the ability to pretty much butcher any scene through your shitty reading comprehension.

*edit

Ignore.

Hello

Originally posted by carver9
Hello

The Bumping Master.

Remember when I bumped more than a hundred of your threads? haermm With some help from that other guy, don't remember his nickname atm.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
The Bumping Master.

Remember when I bumped more than a hundred of your threads? haermm With some help from that other guy, don't remember his nickname atm.

That was terrible.

It was awesome haermm2 We've all had so much fun then.

Batman moves out of the way of HV, after it has been fired, by a bloodlusted Superman

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4YE61fVjlYE/WIqkfxxEMVI/AAAAAAABqdo/J-ejOY55c1g5k27LXSI5XDJCFUbRq1aSACLcB/s1600/33_009.jpg

So much faster than Orion