Top 10 strongest Sith

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The Merchant
So I'm bored and would like to make a top 10 and eventually top 20 strongest Sith list. First I would post what I think are the top 10, you post yours. Then we could argue who can be switched, who can be added, if 2 or more can share the same spot, etc:

1.Palpatine
2.Vitiate
3.Plagueis
4.Nihilus
5.Caedus
6.Krayt
7.Exar Kun
8.Vader
9.Bane
10.Zannah

Sinious
I like your list.


1. Sidious
2. Vitiate
3. Nihilus
4/5. Plagueis/Caedus
6. Bane
7. Exar Kun
8/9. Vader/Krayt
10. (Not sure yet)

Tulak Hord should definitely be up there but he is an unknown character so I did not include him.

I would put Darth Jadus at no.10 but he never fought another force sensitive so I didn't include him as well.

Stigma
Put Malgus instead of Bane and Dooku instead of Zannah thumb up
What about Revan, Tenebrous, Ancient Sith?
I'd also change order in some cases.

Stigma
Originally posted by Sinious
I like your list.


1. Sidious
2. Vitiate
3. Nihilus
4/5. Plagueis/Caedus
6. Bane
7. Exar Kun
8/9. Vader/Krayt
10. (Not sure yet)

Tulak Hord should definitely be up there but he is an unknown character so I did not include him.

I would put Darth Jadus at no.10 but he never fought another force sensitive so I didn't include him as well.
Not bad IMHO.

Nihilus is probably too high on both lists, but meh.

Bane sits hilariously hight at #6... replace him with Vader and for Vader's place at 8/9 put Malgus.

#10 belongs to either Tenebrous, Dooku or Orbalisk Bane. Tulak Hord FTW

Sinious
I might end up removing Nihilus completely for the same reason I didn't include Jadus.

My no.10 would be Malgus right now but I can't edit so meh

Neither makes it to my list but I'm still trying to decide between Traya and Tenebrous tbh.

Stigma
I see. Yeah, sometimes it's hard to gauge where to place them, with all the variables and such.

My list (in many cases the differences are negligible imho):

1. Sidious
2. Caedus
3. Plagueis
4. Vitiate
5. Vader
6. Kun
7. Krayt
8. Malgus
9. Tenebrous
10. Dooku

Didn't include Nihilus, he's too contorversial in his abilities for my taste.
Peak Orbalisk Bane might be pushing #10, perhaps.
But then again hype-wise Sith Lords like Hord are notable mentions.

Revanchiste
1.Palpatine
2.Vitiate
3.Plagueis
4.Nihilus
5.Revan
6.Cadeus
7.Exar Kun
8.Vader
9.Bane
10.Malgus
11. Traya.
12 Naga Sadow.
13. Marka Ragnos
14 Tulak hord.
15 Tyranus.

Trocity
Originally posted by Stigma
I see. Yeah, sometimes it's hard to gauge where to place them, with all the variables and such.

My list (in many cases the differences are negligible imho):

1. Sidious
2. Caedus
3. Plagueis
4. Vitiate
5. Vader
6. Kun
7. Krayt
8. Malgus
9. Tenebrous
10. Dooku

Didn't include Nihilus, he's too contorversial in his abilities for my taste.

Very good list and agreed about Nihilus.

S_W_LeGenD
Ranking characters list-wise is controversial. I prefer TIER based rankings.

TIER 1

NOTE: Individuals who are supremely powerful

Examples:

Sidious; Vitiate; Nox

TIER 2

NOTE: Individuals who are extremely powerful

Examples:

Nihilus; Revan; Caedus; Malgus; Krayt; Plagueis; Emperor's Wrath II; Tulak Hord; Kallig; Ikoral; Exar Kun

Lineages:-

- Emperor's Wrath

TIER 3

NOTE: Individuals who are very powerful

Examples:

Vader; Malak; Marka Ragnos; Traya; Angral; Fulminiss; Wyyrlok III; Nadd; Praven; Draahg

Lineages:

- The Exiles
- Bannite Sith (from Bane to Tenebrous)
- Dark Council members
- Dread Masters

TIER 4

NOTE: Individuals who are powerful

Examples:

Dooku; Maul; Sadow; Vindican; Adraas; Kas'im; Andeddu; Talon; Nihl; Lachris; Taalon; Lumiya; Rathari

Lineages:

- Kressh
- High Lord

TIER 5

NOTE: Individuals who are reasonable

Examples:

Sion; Bandon; Tarnis; Rivan; Kaan

NewGuy01
Holy nutballs. Nox is a tier above Caedus and Plagueis? laughing out loud

Nephthys
Nox on the same level as Sidious and Vitiate, lmao!

If Nox were that powerful she'd be Empress already.

That said I agree with Legend that ranking list-ways is stupid and tiers are better.

Stigma
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Holy nutballs. Nox is a tier above Caedus and Plagueis? laughing out loud
thumb up

Other examples of this ludicrousness: the likes of Kas'im and Vindican in the same tier with Dooku laughing out loud

Boże widzisz i nie grzmisz!

psmith81992
In terms of saber combat? Kas'im should be ranked above Dooku.

Stigma
This claim notwithstanding, strongest Sith list, I believe, does not only include saber combat erm

|King Joker|
I think Bane should be #1.

Trocity
lol @ Kas'im being a better duelist than Dooku.

Stigma
Bane said so, it must be true. thumb up

carthage
Sidious
Plagueis
Caedus
Vader

Bottom five are subject to change but likely include Krayt, Traya, Kun, Malgus, Nox, and Dooku

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Holy nutballs.

cool

NewGuy01
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
cool

Good to know someone got it.

I may or may not post a list in the near future.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Holy nutballs. Nox is a tier above Caedus and Plagueis? laughing out loud

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nox on the same level as Sidious and Vitiate, lmao!

If Nox were that powerful she'd be Empress already.

This is Nox at the height of his power. He is one of the best sorcerers and draws power from several ghosts to fuel his own. He also have augmented defenses. And he soundly defeated an extremely powerful Sith Lord.

As a measure, some ghosts almost killed Sidious on Korriban. Sidious was revived in a Bacta tank.

So yes, Nox is supremely powerful by virtue of his augmentations.

Becoming an Emperor is not an easy task. Anyways, Nox have accumulated significant powerbase of his own so far and story is in progress.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That said I agree with Legend that ranking list-ways is stupid and tiers are better.
thumb up

Originally posted by Stigma
thumb up

Other examples of this ludicrousness: the likes of Kas'im and Vindican in the same tier with Dooku laughing out loud

Boże widzisz i nie grzmisz!
Its a TIER.

Anyways, Kas'im is really good; he is one of the finest swordsmen of the mythos and the only Brotherhood Sith who could challenge Bane.

Vindican is also good; he had very good defensive abilities (tanked a missile and a lightsaber stab-wound on the face) and advanced understanding of the Force by virtue of being a Sith Inquisitor. He was significantly above a Jedi Knight level opponent at the time of his confrontation with Kao whom he stalemated until the latter acquired multiple lightsabers. Kao is every bit as impressive as Dooku, if not better.

Maybe these reasons are not enough for you, but let us not forget that a gang of pirates arrested Dooku.

ILS
..........................

Sinious
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is Nox at the height of his power. He is one of the best sorcerers and draws power from several ghosts to fuel his own. He also have augmented defenses. And he soundly defeated an extremely powerful Sith Lord.

As a measure, some ghosts almost killed Sidious on Korriban. Sidious was revived in a Bacta tank.

So yes, Nox is supremely powerful by virtue of his augmentations.

Becoming an Emperor is not an easy task. Anyways, Nox have accumulated significant powerbase of his own so far and story is in progress.

None of this puts him in that tier though.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Sinious
None of this puts him in that tier though.
Why not? Drawing power from multiple ghosts and channeling such power for manipulating the external environment is not a norm development.

Also, watch this footage:

xue7kkBoo8w

Thanaton is officially recognized as one of the most powerful Sith to have ever existed. Tanking his powers and overwhelming him is a very impressive accomplishment.

Nox soundly tackles virtually anybody he confronts. He also have feats of easily destroying structures, one-shotting large animals, one-shotting gigantic droids, and easily defeating even a Jedi Strike Team. In-fact, Nox have felled whole gangs of impressive opponents on many occasions.

Nox's accomplishments impressed even Marr and Khem Val recognized him as a worthy successor to Tulak Hord. Nox is undoubtedly super-strong.

Unlike many Sith, Nox just tanks through most challenges. This guy is an absolute monster.

NewGuy01
Nox solos the dread masters, tbh.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Nox solos the dread masters, tbh.
I recall Nox withstanding the power of Dread Masters. Very impressive.

Sinious
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Why not? Drawing power from multiple ghosts and channeling such power for manipulating the external environment is not a norm development.



Every out of norm character doesn't automatically end up in top tier though. Nox has no accolades and feats to suggest he'd be up there nor does he have any other detail in his story to suggest that as well. He is still below the likes of Darth Malgus, Jadus let alone the Emperor.



I've played the SI story like 3 times. He is immensely powerful, no doubt. Anything you've counted so far is far from being as impressive as stomping Revan, the Braga strike team and everything else Vitaite has done and he doesn't even come close to Sidious in anyway except maybe in sorcery.

Nephthys
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is Nox at the height of his power. He is one of the best sorcerers and draws power from several ghosts to fuel his own. He also have augmented defenses. And he soundly defeated an extremely powerful Sith Lord.

As a measure, some ghosts almost killed Sidious on Korriban. Sidious was revived in a Bacta tank.

So yes, Nox is supremely powerful by virtue of his augmentations.

Becoming an Emperor is not an easy task. Anyways, Nox have accumulated significant powerbase of his own so far and story is in progress.

If Nox were as powerful or nearly as powerful as Vitiate, hell yes it would be an easy task.

The Merchant
Hmmm, ok here's a tier list and I can see it being more favorable especially since it gives more options to choose people and what-not:

God-tier: Palpatine, Vitiate, Plagueis, Nihilus.

Top-tier: Exar Kun, Caedus, Krayt, Dread Masters, Tulak Hord.

High-tier: Vader, Bane, Malgus, Nox, Emperor's Wrath I and II, Ragnos, Dooku, and others.

carthage
Malgus, Dooku, and Vader should be higher. Bane isnt in their tier by any means

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by The Merchant
Hmmm, ok here's a tier list and I can see it being more favorable especially since it gives more options to choose people and what-not:

God-tier: Palpatine, Vitiate, Plagueis, Nihilus.

Top-tier: Exar Kun, Caedus, Krayt, Dread Masters, Tulak Hord.

High-tier: Vader, Bane, Malgus, Nox, Emperor's Wrath I and II, Ragnos, Dooku, and others.

For the hell of it, if only for curiosity's sake, figure you could share why you feel a given character's placement as you have them here is deserved?

I can figure out most of them myself, but half the fun of discussion is knowing WHY :maybe

I take it you take Bane's ritual on Ruusan into consideration at least concerning his placement though? :hmm

Makes sense given the ritual was only jamming the power of 27 sith into the strongest vessel they had, but eh.

Revanchiste
We should put some honorable mention...

Should combat skill the most important critere of the classment? As an encylopedian fighting skills are not my primary focus....
We need a classement base on base on.....
Based on what they acomplished !
Yhea that's it !

S_W_LeGenD

Nephthys
He meant that Nox doesn't come close to Sidious I think.

Also you messed up and said Thanaton instead of Nox.

Sinious

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Sinious
Thanaton or Nox? Anyway, again, the greatest achievement of Nox is to stomp a dark councilor where Vitiate one-shots entire dark councils and in SOR it is said that the Dread Masters' combined power is irrelevant compared to the Emperor. I don't think I need to talk about Emperor Vitiate to you. You know very well that nothing you presented so far puts Nox in the same tier with neither Vitiate nor Sidious.
I meant Thanaton.

Undoubtedly, each Dark Council member is among the most powerful Sith Lords in the galaxy in any era but they significantly vary in strength even among themselves. Some had the potential to become Emperor if they had not co-existed with Emperor Vitiate.

The power that Emperor unleashed on the entire Dark Council is a mysterious one, and apparently among the most deadly combat-focused techniques that have no counter.

"There are techniques within the Force against which there is no defense." (Darth Traya)

Traya's statement have substance, their are techniques which a target can only hope to endure and survive, if subjected to, with raw power or with a special condition or with a special defense.

Among the Dark Council members, Darth Lokess survived Emperor's mysterious power but became unconscious from exposure to it, only to end up getting tortured to death afterwards.

---

Anyways, Thanaton is officially recognized as among the most powerful Sith in galactic history (supremely powerful), with decades invested in acquiring knowledge of ancient techniques and great command of sorcery as a consequence.

Here is a footage that people do not usually discuss:

AZrd0pcXNRU

When Thanaton unleashed his first sorcery-oriented attack, Nox successfully countered it by drawing on the power of a ghost (sorcery-oriented defense), surprising Thanaton with such command of the Force. However, Thanaton unleashed another more powerful sorcery-oriented attack, one-shotting Nox with it.

--

Sith Inquisitor story is about rivalry between two champions of the dark side.

Originally posted by Sinious
Jadus has shown a unique level of mastery in the force and has an accolade that puts him above the likes of Nox and perhaps even Malgus. He's an unknown so I won't argue about him though. Malgus however, has TK pwned the sith protags did he not? Some claim that only Wrath faced him but unless there's a direct quote for it, I'm inclined to believe that all 4 protags faced him. He gave them a good fight just by himself which indicates his superiority to them individually.
Jadus is second only to Emperor per estimation of Imperial Intelligence, which is very impressive standing for a Sith Lord. However, it would be a stretch to assume that Imperial Intelligence fully understands the mechanics of the Force. But I give credit where due, I take this as a basis to promote Jadus as being among the Sith finest.

Malgus actually demonstrated the potential to become an Emperor, an accomplishment few Sith can hope to achieve in galactic history in an era when Sith existed in large numbers. He is absolutely legit.

Still assuming that Malgus could not be challenged or outgunned by some of his peers is also a stretch.

A single ghost is a powerful entity in its own right. Drawing on the power of several and channeling such power into offense, is a punch that I don't think any mortal can cope with for long. I am not surprised that Thanaton fell to such a foe.

You recall how Kyp augmented by power of ghost of Exar Kun, successfully defeated Luke (freaking) Skywalker?

Also, some ghosts (almost) killed Sidious in rage. Sidious was lucky to survive in this confrontation.

Originally posted by Sinious
Yeah, I meant Nox doesn't come close to Sidious.
An augmented Nox have the raw power to challenge virtually anybody and destroy majority in a confrontation.

Watch Nox pwning a Jedi Strike Team: http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4338385

In-fact, Nox grew in power to such an extent that Khem eventually recognized him as a worthy successor to Tulak Hord.

Now read about Tulak Hord:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t595436.html

Sinious
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I meant Thanaton.

Undoubtedly, each Dark Council member is among the most powerful Sith Lords in the galaxy in any era but they significantly vary in strength even among themselves. Some had the potential to become Emperor if they had not co-existed with Emperor Vitiate.

The power that Emperor unleashed on the entire Dark Council is a mysterious one, and apparently among the most deadly combat-focused techniques that have no counter.

"There are techniques within the Force against which there is no defense." (Darth Traya)

Traya's statement have substance, their are techniques which a target can only hope to endure and survive, if subjected to, with raw power or with a special condition or with a special defense.

Among the Dark Council members, Darth Lokess survived Emperor's mysterious power but became unconscious from exposure to it, only to end up getting tortured to death afterwards.

There are eras where the likes of Darth Malak can become a dark lord of the sith. That doesn't make them superior in power or skill though.

Vitiate's DC purge feat is a vague one true, but there are so many other examples to his superiority. Both Nox and Vitiate have faced Revan. Vitiate literally stomped Revan with his FLS where Nox got stomped by Revan via TK. Do you think a Vitiate level force user would be sent flying like that by Revan? Now, I know that Revan had grown in power after the novel but I also know that there isnt a huge difference in power like between ROTJ Luke and DE Luke. Revan just got a bit more powerful overall and so it doesn't justify the huge performance difference between Nox and Vitiate against Revan.

Also, in SOR Vitiate is stated to be above any other force user by a margin. Revan is definitely superior to Nox yet he doesn't even come close to Vitiate.



Vitiate spent more than a millennium doing exactly that. Nox would be a fool to think he could challenge the Emperor.



That was far from Nox' prime so I don't see how it matters here.



Yeah, an accolade from the S. Intelligence by itself isn't enough but Jadus has ale shown what he is capable of in several occasions. The only thing he is missing is a victory against another powerful force user.

Then why do you think the protag strike team failed to just stomp Malgus right away? Malgus was able to force choke 3 of them simultaneously and send them all back flying in the beginning of the fight. Nox clearly lacks the skill and experience to defeat beings like Malgus on his own let alone beings like Vitiate and Sidious.



We don't know how powerful a single ghost is though. Nothing suggests that the ghosts boosted Nox' power enough to be a challenge to top tier sith.

Exar Kun is a top 10 sith material and far more powerful than any of the ghosts that Nox enslaved. It's not a good example to support your case.



What ghosts are you referring to exactly? confused



This could be said for a lot of characters in the mythos. It doesn't automatically make them a tier above Plagueis, Caedus etc.



These are all great thumb up

Except they don't compare to what Sidious and Vitiate have achieved as combatants.

Sidious could overwhelm Nox in a force fight in time or just defend against anything Nox throws at him and then kill him in a short duel.

The_Tempest
I would say the SWTOR faction hemmhorages credibility with each post given the outrageous claims and lack of consensus, but it's been exsanguinated for some time. 👍

Nephthys
There's not really a faction. I can see why you're still stuck in a us vs them mindset though, given your history.

The_Tempest
A small group with a fairly shared agenda, usually dissenting the status quo? Looks like a faction to me. Just not a particularly persuasive or effective one.

Aren't they the underdogs on their own forums? erm

Nephthys
You said it yourself, the only area in which we have common ground is that we respect the TOR era. There's no consensus or coordinated efforts here. I'm not in a faction with Legend, Neb or Ant just because I agree with them on certain matters (TOR, Bane, Revan). In fact you know that I frequently clash violently with their opinions on them. Just like PT supporters clash over Maul, the Council etc.

The Merchant
@CT, the problem I have with Bane's feat with the 20 other Sith is that whenever Force Users focus their powers into something it becomes exponentially much greater than their individual powers. I rank Bane with Vader and the like because of him destroying the Temple of Lehon, which has withstood Turbolaser firepower in the past. Also here's an updated version of my top 20 list, although like I said I should probably start making tiers cause I feel many people like the DC members and Dark Jedi exiles should be mentioned as well:

1.Palpatine
2.Vitiate
3.Plagueis
4.Nihilus
5.Caedus
6.Krayt
7.Exar Kun
8.Vader
9.Zannah
10.Bane
11.Malgus
12.Nox
13.Wrath
14.Ragnos
15.Sadow
16.Dooku
17.Traya
18.Freedon Nadd
19.Malak
20.Maul.

NewGuy01
thumb up



I find this interestsing. Like, I understand that a lot of people have Nihilus above Caedus, but generically when it comes to him people would either put him above Plagueis as well, or set him lower than both tbh. No real point to this, moving on.



thumb up I can't say I don't approve of these three being next after the big 5.



Fair enough, though I'd argue that there are more worthy candidates for the spot. Just an obvious example, Darth Tenebrous; one of the last, and by extension the strongest, of Bane's lineage. Still, omoshiroi to see someone who has Zannah>Bane.



thumb up He's tough~




Always interesting to see how people think the protags stack up to similar famous Sith; obviously favorably, in this case.



Seems a bit low, but at least he's here.



Ew.



thumb up This list has a severe lack of Muur. Unforgivable. mad

carthage
Malgus, Traya, Malak, Maul, Dooku, and Nox should all be above Bane. Realistically, he should be like 15 or something. There are also tons of featless Sith/weaklings on the list like Zannah and Sadow

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by The Merchant
@CT, the problem I have with Bane's feat with the 20 other Sith is that whenever Force Users focus their powers into something it becomes exponentially much greater than their individual powers.

That's pretty weak as far as assumptions go. Narrative of the ritual in both the comic and novel was more or less espoused as just stuffing power of the remaining brotherhood into Bane, no exponential power increase was inferred.

Without an actual quote of exposition saying the union of power between force users leads to a resonance of exponential power?

Your stance really has no actual grounds, especially given you already ignore conservation of energy in your next sentence with the Temple and Turbolasers.

Given appealing to CoE is the only justification I'm aware of that would let you draw the conclusion that force users together = greater than sum of parts.



Was it specifically stated to be hit in the past?

I know the Rakata civil war basically glassed Lehon, I just never searched for specifics.

I can understand why you'd put Vader above him off this though. Starkiller's lightning has feats greater than most turbolaser fire anyway.

Had you been using the ritual, it'd be groundless to powerscale Vader off Bane given he's nothing more than a placeholder after Mustafar. Same reason why Dooku and Maul don't benefit, they weren't selected with the tenants of Rule of Two being kept in mind like Anakin was prior to Mustafar.

Would be different if official word quantified Bane in terms of Sidious like they did Vader and Luke, but that power level bullshit only ever extended as far as them, thus kind of worthless outside of being cool to know.

That is, of course, unless you're willing to support continent level farmer with shotgun in dragon ball :maybe

Linear power level scales are bullshit either way :lmao



Alright




Between what I know of him, Kun and Caedus, I tend to find there's not enough quantifiable difference between the three between accolades and feats to determine who's above who in order for sure :hmm



Really do feel he's is overrated as hell

He can absorb a lot of energy, the energy unleashed while doing so sufficient to reduce a planet's surface to ashes.

Continental really isn't all that special if you understand how to play connect the dots

He's high tier, but I'd hardly call him top 5 when so many matches with him can easily become a quick draw.



Going to need to explain this to me :hmm

I haven't read Legacy or FotJ, so I'm not too familiar with Krayt.



Rule of Two really does make this easy to grasp.

They had their strengths and weaknesses, but raw power kind of needs to be comparable for the system to function as Bane wanted it too.

Though Tenebrous should be above Zannah as far as fleshed out Rule of Two with actual characters go.



Why? :hmm

Malgus has nice feats however, maybe it's due to my limited knowledge of the game, but I can't think of any real dots to play with that places him that high

Or is this just by virtue of the Strike Team that was required to put him down? :hmm



We know for a fact Nadd put Sadow down, so not sure why Sadow would place above Nadd :hmm

Not that I'd put them on this list

Or Traya really, but that's mostly due to lacking any major powerscaling outside of being stronger than Surik.

Dooku's one of those characters that has great accolades, but nothing specific enough to actually determine who or what he powerscales to without lowballing his ass

He just gives me a headache in general.



Sort of figure Malak's placed too low, but I can understand why you don't place him higher too.

Maul has Dooku's issue with me too, barring the actual accolades Dooku has. Son of Dathomir sort of helped him out a bit though with the final Talzin vs Sidious force battle.

Originally posted by NewGuy01

thumb up This list has a severe lack of Muur. Unforgivable. mad

Muur's not going to make it if Pall's not on the list

Though we know little about him, him holding the title of Dark Lord at his peak sort of places Pall above Muur anyway

That said, Muur having enough power to convince Vader to contemplate using his power combined with his own to try taking Sidious down is interesting, given his former peak in power had him fairly hesitant of striking out at Sidious at all.

NewGuy01
Pall was absolutely pathetic compared to Muur in the end, though.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Pall was absolutely pathetic compared to Muur in the end, though.

For what?

His regrets and redemption?

Or something else?

Fact of the matter is, he held the title Dark Lord of the Sith when Muur, Dreypa, XoXaan, and Syn lived

Powerscaling gives him the raw power of Muur by virtue of holding position of the most powerful Sith

Lacking showings doesn't mean playing connect the dots is something you get to ignore now :maybe

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Sinious
There are eras where the likes of Darth Malak can become a dark lord of the sith. That doesn't make them superior in power or skill though.
Malak became a Dark Lord of the Sith in a highly competitive era actually; when Malak's time came to prove his mettle and ability to lead a Sith Empire after Revan's fall, he was absolutely successful.

On Leviathan cruiser, when Revan, Bastilla Shan and Carth Onasi confronted Malak, they all failed to defeat him.

But Malak had greater plans; he began to harness the power of Star Forge to control it and fuel his own. Keep in mind that Star Forge is known to break individuals who are not strong enough to control it.

So I don't get the Malak sucks mentality at all. BioWare never projected Malak as a weak-sauce. Mr. Miller's ill-planned presentation of Malak in the comics did some damage which he is not proud of by the way. However, we can safely assume that Malak substantially grew in power with passage of time as he began to hone his talents in both martial aspects and dark side.

You know the name? Malak is the strongest of us, and the strongest always rules. (Yuthura Ban)

"When Revan fell we had hoped the Sith threat was ended. But Malak quickly assumed Revan's role, and has embraced the dark side power as fully as his old master ever did. Now Malak leads the Sith armada against the Republic. Hate and vengeance for his master's death draw Malak ever further down the path of the dark side, fueling his powers until they surpass those of his old master." (Vandar Tokare)

The ruling Dark Lord of the Sith is a master of the Dark Side of the Force. (KoTOR-CG)

In Knights of the Old Republic: Campaign Guide, Malak is identified as a powerful Force-user and his dueling stats are comparable to that of Exar Kun at the time of his reign as a Dark Lord of the Sith.

Greatest issue of TOR timeline is lack of ample literature on its characters. Star Wars authors are to blame.

Nonetheless, BioWare made good effort in creating useful literature for SWTOR. It the literature and lore that gives us perspective of power of characters of TOR timeline.

Originally posted by Sinious
Vitiate's DC purge feat is a vague one true, but there are so many other examples to his superiority. Both Nox and Vitiate have faced Revan. Vitiate literally stomped Revan with his FLS where Nox got stomped by Revan via TK. Do you think a Vitiate level force user would be sent flying like that by Revan? Now, I know that Revan had grown in power after the novel but I also know that there isnt a huge difference in power like between ROTJ Luke and DE Luke. Revan just got a bit more powerful overall and so it doesn't justify the huge performance difference between Nox and Vitiate against Revan.
I am not asserting that Vitiate's DC purge feat is a vague one or not a good example to cite. In-fact, it is arguably the greatest display of offensive power in single combat in the mythos thus far. Emperor is even promoted as the most powerful Force-user in galactic history in official literature, and the DC purge feat lends credibility to this promotion.

As for Revan's confrontation with an Imperial Strike Team, its details are vague at the moment. We don't know exactly who confronted Revan, we can only speculate about the Imperial agents sent to confront Revan on the Foundry. However, we can safely assume that those Imperial agents were really powerful and skilled and forced Revan to teleport from the Foundry.

Unfortunately, you cannot prove that Revan ever stomped Nox with his powers.

As for Revan growing in power after the events of Revan, this is also a speculation. SWTOR does not promotes Revan being at his prime in the era of Satele Shan, it would be a stretch to assume that Revan is at his prime after enduring 300 years of torture and internally fractured as a consequence.

In-fact, Revan's best performance is against Emperor Vitiate in which the Jedi Master managed to control himself while sent packing across the hall, resisted Emperor's powers for a while and momentarily overwhelmed Emperor on two occasions with his actions. Emperor Vitiate had never been pressed to this extent in history by any foe and this confrontation forced him to re-evaluate his defensive measures and strategies. It was after this confrontation that Emperor created Voices, Children, and Emperor's Wrath to increase his safeguard and expand his reach on galactic scale to observe his enemies and destroy them when they would plot against him.

Originally posted by Sinious
Also, in SOR Vitiate is stated to be above any other force user by a margin. Revan is definitely superior to Nox yet he doesn't even come close to Vitiate.
Emperor is the most powerful Force-user in the galactic history. However, Nox seems to be catching-up with the giants of his era his own strategy for binding powerful ghosts to himself to fuel his power.

Nox's growth in power by virtue of his sorcery-oriented techniques is so fast that he dismissed a supremely powerful rival in a span of 3 years. The rival spend decades in honing his talents in the dark side and secure a position in the Dark Council, while Nox accomplished all this in a span of 3 years.

Never in the history before, a Sith have ascended to Dark Council in a span of just 3 years.

Originally posted by Sinious
Vitiate spent more than a millennium doing exactly that. Nox would be a fool to think he could challenge the Emperor.
Only time will tell.

Though Emperor Vitiate is stated to have explored the most sinister and uncharted depths of the dark side in official literature so it is possible that he have an answer for a threat like Nox. But only Emperor Vitiate have this luxury at the moment.

Originally posted by Sinious
That was far from Nox' prime so I don't see how it matters here.
I expected better argument from you at-least.

What exactly is Nox's prime? Nox grows in power by virtue of his sorcery-oriented techniques and actions, we do not have a measure of his so-called "prime" as a consequence.

"The powerful Darth Thanaton has made it clear he wants you dead. You've learned a ritual that will allow you to defend yourself against him - but you must steal the power of Sith apparitions to use it. The apparition on Taris is guarded by Jedi. Elios Maliss has suggested that you may be able to corrupt one of their Padawans - Ashara Zavros - into taking you to the ghost - who is also her ancient ancestor."

Taken from SWTOR

Sith Sorcery and Sciences are a gateway to levels of power which mortals can never hope to attain with their natural potential; this is the message that TOR era content and Darth Plagueis have conveyed. As an example, Emperor Vitiate was becoming like the Celestials by virtue of his sorcery-oriented actions.

Originally posted by Sinious
Yeah, an accolade from the S. Intelligence by itself isn't enough but Jadus has ale shown what he is capable of in several occasions. The only thing he is missing is a victory against another powerful force user.
Don't get me wrong, Jadus have impressive Force abilities and would be capable of defeating many foes. However, in contrast, Nox have actual history of defeating powerful foes including one of the strongest Dark Council members to have ever existed in history.

Originally posted by Sinious
Then why do you think the protag strike team failed to just stomp Malgus right away? Malgus was able to force choke 3 of them simultaneously and send them all back flying in the beginning of the fight. Nox clearly lacks the skill and experience to defeat beings like Malgus on his own let alone beings like Vitiate and Sidious.
Malgus became so powerful that even Sidious greatly admired him after learning about his history and command of the dark side, knowledge that proved beneficial to Sidious himself. However, Sidious was still open-minded enough to regard Malgus as "among" the best of the Emperor's followers. It is likely that Sidious had some idea of other powerhouses that co-existed with Malgus (excluding Emperor Vitiate).

Your evaluation of Nox is without basis unfortunately.

Originally posted by Sinious
We don't know how powerful a single ghost is though. Nothing suggests that the ghosts boosted Nox' power enough to be a challenge to top tier sith.
roll eyes (sarcastic)

You are among the few sensible Star Wars fans left in this forum who don't troll and ridicule opposition, rather debate respectfully and I respect you. However, this argument, in particular, could not stop me from rolling my eyes.

Coming back to the point:-

Every Sith ghost is a powerful manifestation of the Force with the potential to influence materialistic realm, possess, harm or break mortal individuals.

Sith ghosts that resided inside the Dark Temple had broken and killed many trespassers in history. Only few managed to resist their influence and power; I am aware of Emperor Vitiate and Nox.

Nox binded the ghosts of Ergast and Andru from the Dark Temple. Ergast, in particular, gave Nox significant trouble and proved to be very difficult to properly possess and control.

Later on, Nox possessed the ghosts of Kalatosh Zavros and Horak-mul. The former was the ghost of a Jedi Master so it did not present much threat but the latter was a ghost of a powerful Sith Lord who became the right-hand of Ludo Kressh. Horak-mul was so strong that it took 5 elite assassins to subdue him in an ambush. Even in ghost form, Horak-mul proved to be very dangerous, with history of possessing and breaking many individuals. In-fact, Horak-mul allowed himself to be possessed after Nox completed a task for him.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Sinious
Exar Kun is a top 10 sith material and far more powerful than any of the ghosts that Nox enslaved. It's not a good example to support your case.
My friend, this is an astounding misconception.

Sith ghosts are powerful in their own right but they actually lack the raw power of super-strong mortals.

Exar Kun, in ghost form, sensed great strength in Luke and felt the need of a strong host to tackle him. Kyp Durron proved to be a suitable host for the task.

Kyp's raw power coupled with Kun's command of the dark side, proved to be too much for Luke to handle. However, you are overreaching by assuming that Exar Kun dwarfed other Sith ghosts in power by virtue of being Exar Kun.

Also, do keep in mind that Exar Kun did not even dared to interfere in the matters of Revan and Emperor Vitiate on Yavin IV. The latter even engulfed the entire planet with his power, consuming many in the process to fuel his return. This feat alone dictates profound difference in the power of Emperor Vitiate and Exar Kun, even in spirit forms.

Nox binded several Sith ghosts to him (including some of the most dangerous ones as revealed above) and such magnitude of power would prove fatal to a mortal without a solution; Nox found the solution from Rakatan technology and magic which transformed him into an immortal being capable of channeling the power of multiple ghosts to manipulate the external environment without danger.

Originally posted by Sinious
What ghosts are you referring to exactly? confused
They were in Korriban.

Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side contains information about this event.

Originally posted by Sinious
This could be said for a lot of characters in the mythos. It doesn't automatically make them a tier above Plagueis, Caedus etc.
So according to you, many have the raw power to challenge "everybody" in the mythos? Don't you think that you are overreaching here?

Originally posted by Sinious
These are all great thumb up

Except they don't compare to what Sidious and Vitiate have achieved as combatants.
Really?

Just like them, Nox have history of defeating super-strong opponents and pwning Strike Teams of Jedi and Sith.

Originally posted by Sinious
Sidious could overwhelm Nox in a force fight in time or just defend against anything Nox throws at him and then kill him in a short duel.
How will Sidious tackle Nox's immortality?

Also, Nox harnesses power of multiple ghosts to influence external environment, he have adequate raw power to handle even Sidious.

Its ironic that I am educating someone about lore-based ground realities of a character to someone who claims to have played Sith Inquisitor story 3 times. Really ironic, my friend.

carthage
Proof or quote?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by carthage
Proof or quote?
You can find and interact with the ghost of Exar Kun on Yavin IV.

Also, nowhere it is implied that Exar Kun interfered in the matters of Revan and Emperor Vitiate on Yavin IV. He apparently stayed out of this.

Nephthys
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Was it specifically stated to be hit in the past?

I know the Rakata civil war basically glassed Lehon, I just never searched for specifics.

We see it get attacked bro. Revan fires on the temple with you in it.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As for Revan's confrontation with an Imperial Strike Team, its details are vague at the moment. We don't know exactly who confronted Revan, we can only speculate about the Imperial agents sent to confront Revan on the Foundry. However, we can safely assume that those Imperial agents were really powerful and skilled and forced Revan to teleport from the Foundry.

What? No, we know exactly who it was. It was the Imperial Protagonists: Nox, Wrath, Cipher and Champ.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by Nephthys
We see it get attacked bro. Revan fires on the temple with you in it.


Ah

TOR

Cool :hmm

Have a video link?

Pretty cool though given SW functions under technological stasis. The Rakata were doing this much during the Dawn of the Jedi era

Granted, that was them powering their ships with Force Sensitives, but eh

Nephthys
LBlqLE6HVAo

9.50

It's also in a few trailers.

Sinious
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I find this interestsing. Like, I understand that a lot of people have Nihilus above Caedus, but generically when it comes to him people would either put him above Plagueis as well, or set him lower than both tbh. No real point to this, moving on.

It kinda makes sense actually. Mastery over the force is a more important factor than raw power when facing abominations like Nihilus. I doubt that Caedus would be able to defend against the drain where Plagueis' master of the dark arts could very well give him immunity or a chance to defend against it. Caedus vs Plagueis is a fight I can't pick a side though.

This is where making tiers become a more preferable way of categorizing characters than making lists.

Sinious
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malak became a Dark Lord of the Sith in a highly competitive era actually; when Malak's time came to prove his mettle and ability to lead a Sith Empire after Revan's fall, he was absolutely successful.

On Leviathan cruiser, when Revan, Bastilla Shan and Carth Onasi confronted Malak, they all failed to defeat him.

But Malak had greater plans; he began to harness the power of Star Forge to control it and fuel his own. Keep in mind that Star Forge is known to break individuals who are not strong enough to control it.

So I don't get the Malak sucks mentality at all. BioWare never projected Malak as a weak-sauce. Mr. Miller's ill-planned presentation of Malak in the comics did some damage which he is not proud of by the way. However, we can safely assume that Malak substantially grew in power with passage of time as he began to hone his talents in both martial aspects and dark side.

You know the name? Malak is the strongest of us, and the strongest always rules. (Yuthura Ban)

"When Revan fell we had hoped the Sith threat was ended. But Malak quickly assumed Revan's role, and has embraced the dark side power as fully as his old master ever did. Now Malak leads the Sith armada against the Republic. Hate and vengeance for his master's death draw Malak ever further down the path of the dark side, fueling his powers until they surpass those of his old master." (Vandar Tokare)

The ruling Dark Lord of the Sith is a master of the Dark Side of the Force. (KoTOR-CG)

In Knights of the Old Republic: Campaign Guide, Malak is identified as a powerful Force-user and his dueling stats are comparable to that of Exar Kun at the time of his reign as a Dark Lord of the Sith.

Greatest issue of TOR timeline is lack of ample literature on its characters. Star Wars authors are to blame.

Nonetheless, BioWare made good effort in creating useful literature for SWTOR. It the literature and lore that gives us perspective of power of characters of TOR timeline.

I know Malak is a powerful sith. I didn't mean to underrate him. Mine was a comparison to make a point.

But a not that powerful version of Revan, a young jedi who is prodigious but hasn't earned much power yet and a non force user not being able to defeat Malak isn't really that impressive tbh.



No, the four imperial protags faced him. It was before their primes but nonetheless they were still powerful.



I can, buddy. Nox was backed by a huge group of people some of them considered to be amongst the best of their eras and Revan utterly sent them back via TK. It is very clear that Revan is above Nox which is nothing to be ashamed of.



He himself says he is more powerful than ever in SOR.



Nox goes out to face a character like Revan with a strike team. Vitiate can stomp Revan by himself. Nox is below Revan and Revan is below Vitiate by a margin. Nothing you said here proves otherwise.



His SOR incarnation is his prime. And in SOR, we see how he fares against Revan. I won't take any futuristic versions of the character based on your assumptions seriously.



As I said before, Jadus is pretty unknown so I won't make an argument for him.

Sidious saying that about Malgus doesn't mean anything here. Its super vague. There have been thousands of sith serving Vitiate for 1300 years. Dread Masters, Darth Marr, Wrath II, the First Son ares just some of the ones we know of. Obviously Nox is one of them but this doesn't put him above Malgus and it most certainly doesn't put him in the same tier as Vitiate and Sidious.



Everything I've said about Nox so far has been based on his showings and nothing else.



Thanks.



Sith ghosts' powers depend on how much energy they have left and it is very hard to measure their powers especially when the ghosts we are talking about are mostly unknowns. Being a spirit by itself doesn't make one uber powerful just like that. Nox' showings are enough proof since he is been backed up by 7 of them.

Sinious
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My friend, this is an astounding misconception.

Sith ghosts are powerful in their own right but they actually lack the raw power of super-strong mortals.

Exar Kun, in ghost form, sensed great strength in Luke and felt the need of a strong host to tackle him. Kyp Durron proved to be a suitable host for the task.

Kyp's raw power coupled with Kun's command of the dark side, proved to be too much for Luke to handle. However, you are overreaching by assuming that Exar Kun dwarfed other Sith ghosts in power by virtue of being Exar Kun.

Also, do keep in mind that Exar Kun did not even dared to interfere in the matters of Revan and Emperor Vitiate on Yavin IV. The latter even engulfed the entire planet with his power, consuming many in the process to fuel his return. This feat alone dictates profound difference in the power of Emperor Vitiate and Exar Kun, even in spirit forms.

Nox binded several Sith ghosts to him (including some of the most dangerous ones as revealed above) and such magnitude of power would prove fatal to a mortal without a solution; Nox found the solution from Rakatan technology and magic which transformed him into an immortal being capable of channeling the power of multiple ghosts to manipulate the external environment without danger.


Like I said above, Nox' and Kyp Durron's possessed showings prove that random sith won't give you the same amount of power a great sith spirit like Kun will. Those spirits may have some impressive backstories but they're nowhere near Exar Kun.



I'll take a look, thanks.



What I meant is, you don't have to be a tier above Darth Plagueis to give Darth Sidious a decent fight.



You're referring to the SI progression video right? I'm not even sure if that's canon but even if it is, 3 random jedi from a gameplay trailer video can't be compared to the Windu's B-team and Tol Braga's strike team.



Nox isn't "immortal" lmao. Sidious has essence transfer in his pocket. His lightning is superior to him and he is faster than him. Sidious has the upper hand in every category of the force and he outclasses Nox in dueling.

You can keep making assumptions and talk about how you view the character but Nox needed help to defeat Revan where Sidious' ROTS incarnation stalemated Yoda. thumb up



No offense but that should tell you something since you haven't played it at all. smile

Tondemonai
actually, Nox is immortal, according to secrets of the darkest stars.

The Merchant
I'm probably gunna change my list tbh. Ancient Sith are becoming more OP in my eyes. Also I sent an email to Karpshyn to clear up what happened with the Bane ritual on Ruusan. I really doubt that each individual Sith has 1/20th of the power to "kill a world." And tbh I don't understand what you mean when you say I ignore COE. I know what the acronym stands for, how am I ignoring it though?

ChaosTheory123
Wasn't saying they each had the power to kill a world

That was the average they had to contribute, which as a low end, I attributed to Bane before, having previously concluded he contributed the bulk sum, but unquantifiably so.

Conservation of Energy, you selectively choose when you want to observe it or not as far as I can tell.

The Merchant
I get that, but how am I doing that according to you? And Drew Karpyshyn already cleared it up how combining their energies leads to an exponential increase.

ChaosTheory123
Before?

You had no support regarding whether the ritual multiplied power or not (I've certainly seen no secondary canon suggesting the ritual magnified their powers. His narration hardly implied it either)

Hence the inference that you were appealing to CoE given his later displays never matched the Force Storm energy again

Yet?

You're more than happy to work off the Rakata Temple not being slagged from Turbolaser bolts despite the fact the omnidirectional release of energy from a full powered bolt on impact (as seen on Taris from earlier tech) should have covered hundreds of kilometers.

I'm fine with disregarding the principle, given it's bunk in fiction, but selectively doing it is just as bad

The Merchant
But I assumed that the Rakata Temple on Lehon was just durable enough to absorb the majority of the Turbolasers bolts. Sort of like how in DBZ we assume that every blast can bust a planet but the character's durability absorbs most of it reducing the blast by many order of magnitudes.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by The Merchant
But I assumed that the Rakata Temple on Lehon was just durable enough to absorb the majority of the Turbolasers bolts. Sort of like how in DBZ we assume that every blast can bust a planet but the character's durability absorbs most of it reducing the blast by many order of magnitudes.

That's what you're assuming

And given where it hit, it would absorb a good chunk of it upon initial expansion

Still, at least 50% of the energy will always expand away from the temple, given its omnidirectional

The Dragon Ball example only serves to illustrate my point

We already ignore CoE

If you're going to do so, you can't selectively do it

There is no justification, selectively doing it will not paint a consistent picture.

Let me restate, I have no issues using the Turbolaser example. I've said **** it to CoE for a while now. I just do it across the board to be consistent.

Kosmos Supreme
1. Darth Sidious
2. Emperor Vitiate
3. Darth Caedus
4. Darth Plaeugis
5. Exar Kun
6. Dark Side Revan (Shadow of Revan)
7. Darth Nihilus
8. Darth Tenebrous
9. Tulak Hord
10. Marka Ragnos?

Other Number 10 Canidates: Darth Vader, Darth Bane, Darth Zannah, Darth Krayt, Emperor's Wrath, Darth Nox, Darth Malgus, Darth Jadus and Freedon Nadd

carthage
Is Tulak getting any new content?

Nephthys
He once beat up the World Razer with his bare hands. With both hands tied behind his back. cool

Kosmos Supreme
Originally posted by Nephthys
He once beat up the World Razer with his bare hands. With both hands tied behind his back. cool

This need to be in the next expansion.
SWTOR: Revenge of Tulak Hord smokin'

NewGuy01
thumb up



Fair.



Not sure I would consider Revan a Sith at this point, but O.K.



thumb up I approve of his mention, if not his placement.



Yeah, I was also wondering where these guys were.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Sinious
Like I said above, Nox' and Kyp Durron's possessed showings prove that random sith won't give you the same amount of power a great sith spirit like Kun will. Those spirits may have some impressive backstories but they're nowhere near Exar Kun.
Exar Kun's spirit have special properties?

Random Sith? Nox didn't possess random Sith; random Sith do not transform into ghosts after death.

Those spirits "may have" some impressive backstories? They "actually have." The individuals are not as strong as Exar Kun but they are quality individuals nonetheless, and a force to be reckoned with in the form of a Strike Team.

I told you before that a single Force ghost is a powerful manifestation of the Force. A group of them mortally wounded Darth Sidious in a confrontation. Try to comprehend.

Also, an unwilling ghost proves to be the source of greater power then a willing one. You have played SI story 3 times, right?

Originally posted by Sinious
I'll take a look, thanks.
Welcome.

Originally posted by Sinious
What I meant is, you don't have to be a tier above Darth Plagueis to give Darth Sidious a decent fight.
Fair enough.

Originally posted by Sinious
You're referring to the SI progression video right? I'm not even sure if that's canon but even if it is, 3 random jedi from a gameplay trailer video can't be compared to the Windu's B-team and Tol Braga's strike team.
I haven't played the Sith Inquisitor story yet so I cannot comment on the quality of the Jedi involved, but single-handedly stomping a Jedi Strike Team is a grand showing of power in Star Wars by character's standards.

And Windu's B-Team is noted for its martial competence, not power. Darth Nox stomped a Jedi Strike Team with his sheer Force abilities.

Originally posted by Sinious
Nox isn't "immortal" lmao. Sidious has essence transfer in his pocket. His lightning is superior to him and he is faster than him. Sidious has the upper hand in every category of the force and he outclasses Nox in dueling.
Darth Nox is virtually immortal; he apparently cannot be killed while he draws on the power of multiple ghosts to fuel his own. Darth Thanaton unleashed a sorcery-oriented vortex of destruction on him and Darth Nox tanked it all.

Originally posted by Sinious
You can keep making assumptions and talk about how you view the character but Nox needed help to defeat Revan where Sidious' ROTS incarnation stalemated Yoda. thumb up
Can you prove that it was Darth Nox who confronted Revan?

We don't know exactly who confronted Revan on Yavin IV from among the PC.

Originally posted by Sinious
No offense but that should tell you something since you haven't played it at all. smile
I will be in a better position to debate in favor of Darth Nox, if I play his story. And I will one day.

Sinious
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Exar Kun's spirit have special properties?

Random Sith? Nox didn't possess random Sith; random Sith do not transform into ghosts after death.

Those spirits "may have" some impressive backstories? They "actually have." The individuals are not as strong as Exar Kun but they are quality individuals nonetheless, and a force to be reckoned with in the form of a Strike Team.

I told you before that a single Force ghost is a powerful manifestation of the Force. A group of them mortally wounded Darth Sidious in a confrontation. Try to comprehend.

Also, an unwilling ghost proves to be the source of greater power then a willing one. You have played SI story 3 times, right?

But again, we don't know how powerful the ghosts are exactly and the best clue we'll get is from Nox' usage of the force. From what I see, Nox is a top tier Dark Council member. Nothing more, nothing less. I still think Wrath is his equal or perhaps even superior and HoT is definitely Nox' superior.




There is literally no info on the jedi in the video but like you said, its still impressive.



And Sidious didn't overwhelm them with his power. He approached them in melee combat so its still more impressive than Nox' feat.



Sidious can slowly overwhelm him in the force or simply engage him in close combat and chop his head off. Nox won't be coming back after he gets decapitated.



Hmm this isn't a clear one for me as well. I'm trying to figure out the best way to understand who faced Malgus and Revan these days so I won't make more arguments about this for now.



Or perhaps when you play the game, you'll have a different opinion. smile

Col. Valerian
Alright:

Tier 1
Sidious
Vitiate
Nihilus (mostly due to his drain)
Plagueis (possibly)

Tier 2
Caedus
Bane
Vader
Exar Kun
Nox
Malgus
Dooku
Revan (If we count his latest version as Sith)

Tier 3
Krayt
Wrath
Possibly a couple of Dark Council members

Tier 4
Traya


Other than Tier 1, they're in no particular order.

Trocity
Caedus should be tier 1, Krayt should be bumped up to tier 2 imo.

Col. Valerian
I just don't see neither Caedus beating the guys on Tier 1, nor Krayt beating those in Tier 2.

Nephthys
Krayt > Dooku.

Q99
And I'd say Krayt edges Bane too.

Trocity
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
I just don't see neither Caedus beating the guys on Tier 1, nor Krayt beating those in Tier 2.

I would remove Plagueis from tier 1 then. I know you have possibly in parenthesis, but Caedus could and would beat Plagueis for a majority.

Apocalypse Krayt was compared to Luke, Reborn Krayt trashed Cade effortlessly. I understand some wouldn't have him as high as I do, but he is at least Dooku/Vader level.

Col. Valerian
Yeah, I was actually going to add 'with the exception of Dooku' at the end of my last post. Maybe Krayt should be Tier 2.

And yes, I'm not entirely sure where to place Plagueis, but I don't think Caedus stands a chance against Vitiate, Sidious and Nihilus, who are all Tier 1.

carthage
Bane isn't more powerful than Wrath or Malak, most of the people on team 2 are more powerful and skilled than he is. Caedus should also be in the same tier as Sidious and Plagueis

Col. Valerian
I just don't see Caedus beating any one the guys in Tier 1, with the possible exception of Plagueis. But yeah, I think I'd rank him somewhere between Tier 1 and Tier 2; a middle ground.
I'll add Malak to Tier 4, as well.

carthage
Why would Caedus have any issues beating anyone you listed apart from Sidious?

Col. Valerian
Nihilus? 'Cause drain.
Vitiate? I just don't think Caedus would overcome his Force potency.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Lists are fun.

Stigma
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Nihilus? 'Cause drain.
Vitiate? I just don't think Caedus would overcome his Force potency.
Caedus is one of the most powerful force users himself, most probably top 5 of most powerful force users tbh.
He is also faster than Vitiate and is an exponentially better duelist.

In a combat scenario, Caedus wins.

Sinious
bump

Sinious
I'm curious how the lists would like in 2016 tbh.

Palpatine
Vitiate
Plagueis
Revan
Caedus / Kun / Krayt
Tenebrous / Vader
Jadus

(I know Revan isn't Sith and Nihilus > all)

NewGuy01
Sidious is the best. Plagueis and Vitiate are also pretty good. Exar Kun, Darth Vader, Darth Krayt, Darth Caedus, etc. after them. No one else matters.

UCanShootMyNova
1. Sidious.
2. Nihilus.
3/4/5. Exar Kun/Vitiate/Plagueis
6/7/8/9. Caedus/Vader/Krayt/Muur.
10. Tenebrous.

Sinious
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
2. Nihilus.
3/4/5. Exar Kun/Vitiate/Plagueis cancer

Nephthys
Vitiate and Nihilus are the top 2, most likely. Nihilus is hard to place tho.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Sidious is the best. Plagueis and Vitiate are also pretty good. Exar Kun, Darth Vader, Darth Krayt, Darth Caedus, etc. after them. No one else matters.
Lame.

Nephthys
Yeah, Newguy where the Revan at?

Everyone knows Darth Revan is planet busting+ level. Malak is totally also planetary in level. He choked 2 Jedi once.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, Newguy where the Revan at?

Everyone knows Darth Revan is planet busting+ level. Malak is totally also planetary in level. He choked 2 Jedi once.
You're using up too much salt, Neph.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/17340587?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227015517849&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=40889492792&wl4=pla-78819597752&wl5=9007396&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=17340587&wl13=&veh=sem

Here's some more. thumb up

Rebel95
Originally posted by Stigma
Caedus is one of the most powerful force users himself, most probably top 5 of most powerful force users tbh.
He is also faster than Vitiate and is an exponentially better duelist.

In a combat scenario, Caedus wins.
Nah Caedus sucks

NewGuy01
Yeah! You tell that guy who left over a year ago!

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
1. Sidious.
2. Nihilus.
3/4/5. Exar Kun/Vitiate/Plagueis
6/7/8/9. Caedus/Vader/Krayt/Muur.
10. Tenebrous.

Worst list I've ever seen, literally.

Rebel95
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yeah! You tell that guy who left over a year ago!
k

chingchangwalla
Sidious
Vitiate/Plagueis
Vitiate/Plagueis
Kun, Krayt or Revan (depends which fanboy you are)

Then guys like Vader and the Ancient Hype Lords, some may add Nihilus but nah.

ILS
Sidious, Plagueis

Caedus, Krayt, possibly Maul, Vader and/or Dooku.

Various Banite Sith after Bane depending on when the cutoff point is for Palps apprentices in the Banite line. Most certainly Tenebrous will be on it.

There's your list.

DarthAnt66
mmm

carthage
-

Unbowed
I don't know whre to place Nihilus, he's a wildcard. His drain is technically unbeatable, but I don't know if that makes him the strongest.

1. Exar Kun
2. Vitiate
3. Krayt (as of FOTJ:Apocalypse or Legacy:War, where he is presumably even stronger)
4. Sidious
5. Plagueis

The rest are the ancients, but they are impossible to rank. Is Tulak Hord stronger than Marka Ragnos. Is Ajunta Pall stronger or weaker than them? Did Naga Sadow eventually surpass Marka Ragnos?

chingchangwalla
Unbowed, you better brace yourself for the hammering you're about to get from other members...

Nephthys
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You're using up too much salt, Neph.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/17340587?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227015517849&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=40889492792&wl4=pla-78819597752&wl5=9007396&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=17340587&wl13=&veh=sem

Here's some more. thumb up

No salt needed to make fun of your previous dumbnesses. Just amusement.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Nephthys
previous.
Revan being over Nihilus hasn't changed, kek. The book is still a thing. erm

Trocity
Originally posted by Unbowed
1. Exar Kun
2. Vitiate
3. Krayt (as of FOTJ:Apocalypse or Legacy:War, where he is presumably even stronger)
4. Sidious
5. Plagueis

http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Colin-Farrell-WTF.gif

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Unbowed
1. Exar Kun
2. Vitiate
3. Krayt (as of FOTJ:Apocalypse or Legacy:War, where he is presumably even stronger)
4. Sidious
5. Plagueis

Come on...

Nephthys
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan being over Nihilus hasn't changed, kek. The book is still a thing. erm

Ah, I see I overestimated you in assuming you would have become more enlightened.

The book exists but Drew's works are more irrelevant than ever, rightfully so.

NewGuy01
I wouldn't exactly say Avellone's work is any more worthy..

Also, is that including the Bane trilogy, Neph? Have you finally come around to the True Way?

Unbowed
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Come on...
You feel Krayt should be second, do you? whistle

DarthAnt66
How can you possibly justify Kun's ranking?

chingchangwalla
Yeah, DE Palpatine would trash almost everyone bar Luke and The Ones. What the hell is Kun gonna do?

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Unbowed
You feel Krayt should be second, do you? whistle

He should be first you *****.

Unbowed
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
How can you possibly justify Kun's ranking?
By his feats, by his spirit's performance against post-DE Luke and his academy? By him being stated to be the strongest Dark Lord until his time, stronger than hype monsters such as Tulak Hord and Marka Ragnos?
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Yeah, DE Palpatine would trash almost everyone bar Luke and The Ones. What the hell is Kun gonna do?
DE Palpatine had the opportunity to trash Luke. Why didn't he take it?

Meanwhile Kun's spirit stomped the shit out of a wiser and more powerful Luke.

Unbowed
Originally posted by NewGuy01
He should be first you *****.
Krayt is maybe my favorite SW character. But even if I take into account his performance against Abeloth and powerscale him to be even stronger as of Legacy:War, Kun matches or exceeds him in every category except the Dark Transfer.

ILS
Some of these statements don't add up. I'll give you a hint:

F*cking all of them

AP must be so erect atm

Unbowed
Originally posted by ILS
Some of these statements don't add up. I'll give you a hint:

F*cking all of them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOmp3HpAGgM

I win.

ILS
Originally posted by Unbowed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOmp3HpAGgM

I win. Heh, stolen.

NewGuy01
lmfaoooo

Nephthys
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Yeah, DE Palpatine would trash almost everyone bar Luke and The Ones. What the hell is Kun gonna do?

Trash Luke, looooool!

UCanShootMyNova
thumb up

chingchangwalla
I don't think you read it properly Neph you spastic

NewGuy01
No, he did. You just didn't read him properly.

SeriousLogic
1. Palpatine
2. Valkorion
3. Plagueis
4. Nihilus/Krayt
5. Nihilus/Krayt
6. Caedus/Kun
7. Caedus/Kun
8. Vader/Traya
9. Vader/Traya
10. Malgus or the other Ancients

NewGuy01
Why on earth is Traya above the Ancient Sith?

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by SeriousLogic

8. Vader/Traya


no

SeriousLogic
Take it you aren't a Traya fan...

Deronn_solo
Traya is reasonably powerful, but being tied with Vader? Being in the top 10 at all, when she conceded inferiority to the ancient Sith?

Nah, she isn't that good.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Why on earth is Traya above the Ancient Sith?

SeriousLogic
I kinda just chucked them in because they belong in the Top 10, I just don't know where...

Ursumeles
Not including Nihilus, and Revan.

1. Palpatine
2. Vitate/Plagueis
3. Plagueis/Vitate
4./5. Kun/Krayt
6./7. Tenebrous/Ragnos
8./9. Pall/Caedus
10. Vader

Vitate as of SoR. I still wank Caedus tbh. Vader is in this List above the likes of Muur, which I normaly have as an equal, through Vaders enormous raw power.

NewGuy01
Dafak

SunRazer
Well, I mean, if people do genuinely believe Pall > Muur, then it's not exactly impossible.

Highly unlikely, though. I just can't envision Pall being stronger than Vader.

Ursumeles
Depends on how much he is superior to Muur, imo. Nah, maybe I'll place Pall as Vaders Equal, and Vader>Muur.

SeriousLogic
Vader should prolly smash Pall in combat tho

Ursumeles
He would win 10/10 imo, in good fights.

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Not including Nihilus, and Revan.

1. Palpatine
2. Vitate/Plagueis
3. Plagueis/Vitate
4./5. Kun/Krayt
6./7. Tenebrous/Ragnos
8./9. Pall/Caedus
10. Vader

Vitate as of SoR. I still wank Caedus tbh. Vader is in this List above the likes of Muur, which I normaly have as an equal, through Vaders enormous raw power.

Pall being equal to Vader is eww. So is Tenebrous being ranked that highly.

JKBart
Yeah you must remember Tenebrous is just like Bane, but worse, a dumbass, a retarded pile of shit:
- whose famed Sense and future prediciton didn't help him in escaping a dumb trap,
- whose greatest achievement, maxichlorian manipulation, turned out to be utter failure too,
- who switched from condemning Plagueis to praising him and condemning again in a matter of few pages,
- whose love for dueling didn't allow him to train Plagueis's near-equal physically, Venamis, to actually defeat Plagueis despite perfect knowledge on Plagueis and ability to create the perfect, ultimate answer for Plagueis. That's despite Plagueis hated dueling while Tenebrous and Venamis loved it smile

Tenebrous doesnt deserve to be ranked anywhere just so we don't promote retardation to children visiting KMC smile

Zenwolf
Ya know with how many of these and Jedi ones I see, I wonder how it's not become extremely repetitive and boring.

JKBart
It's become boring even before I returned thumb up

Ursumeles
I've never lowered any Character faster than Pall. Not sure if I would rank him over Dooku, without his OP Sword.
I would say Muur ist just under ESB Vadee, Remulus Dreypa somewhere between Dooku and Vader.
I've just realized again -through seeing an MV on YT- how Badass Vader was, loiked at his respect therad. I'll place him with Caedus now, over the Guy, which has less hype than its sword.

Tenebrous is, while an Idiot, very powerful in the Force.

JKBart
He is, but he deserves to be forgotten for how shit he is smile

Ursumeles
He is still better than Bane, as Luceno wrote about him as Character.

Ursumeles
After debating in this forum, and Chatting with Myth(myself), I changed my opinions quite a bit. Not including Revan and Nihilius
1. Sidious
2./3. Vitate/Plagueis
2./3. Plagueis/Vitate
4. Krayt
5. Exar Kun
6./7. Tenebrous/Caedus
8. Vader
9. Marka Ragnos
10. Pall/Nadd

Place one is clear, I suppose. Not sure if SoR Vitate is definietly above Plagueis, as Valk isn't a Sith anymore.
Krayt is just immensly powerful, same with Kun. Tenebrous from Banite scaling, other late-Banite are likely in the Top 10 as well, tbh. Caedus is impressive, and I wank him smile
Vader is Vader.
Ragnos has the >all before him quote.
Nadd seems impressive, and after Chatting with Myself(Wollf), I now wank Pall again smile

SunRazer
Pall was better than the others when they first met the Sith purebloods, but not by the time of their deaths.

Ursumeles
Are you sure? Quotes, or so?
Indefinietly could see Syn being >him,tbh.

SunRazer
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Are you sure? Quotes, or so?
Indefinietly could see Syn being >him,tbh.

Given that not even Pall was able to rise above the infighting to restore order, yeah. He was on roughly the same level as the others at the time of his death. That's why their infighting killed each other.

Azronger
Purely raw power, not combative ability:
1. Darth Sidious
2. Darth Nihilus
3/4.Darth Plagueis/Darth Krayt
5. Exar Kun
6. Marka Ragnos
7. Freedon Nadd
8. Ajunta Pall
9. Karness Muur
10. Remulus Dreypa

Unsure of their placement: Valkorion, Darth Caedus, Darth Tenebrous, Tulak Hord

Azronger
Pall could've only been so slightly stronger such a meager difference in power didn't make any difference, or he just got gangbanged by multiple Sith and was overwhelmed. I don't see any conclusive proof that he was surpassed.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by Azronger
Pall could've only been so slightly stronger such a meager difference in power didn't make any difference, or he just got gangbanged by multiple Sith and was overwhelmed. I don't see any conclusive proof that he was surpassed.
thumb up He also could be post-prime, then. But I think the guys who say Pall>Rest, say just their opinion. It is very likely, tho.

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