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Who wins?
No Prep..
No B.F.R..


Ben Grimm finds himself without his powers and back to his human self, and Clark finds himself under a red sun.



Clark Sent


Vs


Ben Grimm



Fight takes place at your local
Wal-Mart parking lot.

Grimm

Originally posted by Scoobless
Grimm




No way!!

Grimm.

Big Ben KO's Clark...

I fancy Grimm's chances; best fight so far.

The outcome of this fight looks Grimm for clark















Get it?

Grimes got a better chance than the nerds, this would be a good fight, I think Grimm would take it though, he's from New York and Clark is from Kansas thats gotta mean something

Ben.

Originally posted by relentless1
Grimes got a better chance than the nerds, this would be a good fight, I think Grimm would take it though, he's from New York and Clark is from Kansas thats gotta mean something
Grimes?

It's not TWD, dude.

Ben. And Clark would respect him for it.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
The outcome of this fight looks Grimm for clark

Get it? ha i get it. Because clarks tea leaves took the shape of a dark spectral dog. Lol good one.

i meant grimm...damn auto correct

In some instances red sun doesn't instantly depower Superman. It takes time. So Superman can one shot Grimm well before he is completely depowered.

Originally posted by h1a8
In some instances red sun doesn't instantly depower Superman. It takes time. So Superman can one shot Grimm well before he is completely depowered.

Clearly OP meant form him to be fully depowered when the fight starts.

Originally posted by KingD19
Clearly OP meant form him to be fully depowered when the fight starts. Then why not just say Clark is depowered? It's simpler don't you think?

H1, why so mad?

Ben is a great h2h fighter, he wins easily.

Originally posted by h1a8
Then why not just say Clark is depowered? It's simpler don't you think?

Because a Red Sun is what usually depowers him without actually hurting him. So he put him in an environment where he was depwowered. There's no need to think so hard over something so simple.

Originally posted by KingD19
Because a Red Sun is what usually depowers him without actually hurting him. So he put him in an environment where he was depwowered. There's no need to think so hard over something so simple.




good explanation

Haha, funny. So damn funny..

Originally posted by Raptor22
ha i get it. Because clarks tea leaves took the shape of a dark spectral dog. Lol good one. lol

Originally posted by h1a8
In some instances red sun doesn't instantly depower Superman. It takes time. So Superman can one shot Grimm well before he is completely depowered. Originally posted by h1a8
Then why not just say Clark is depowered? It's simpler don't you think? http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/746/291/adf.jpg

Saved!

Originally posted by KingD19
Because a Red Sun is what usually depowers him without actually hurting him. So he put him in an environment where he was depwowered. There's no need to think so hard over something so simple. wrong! Saying that Clark is depowered is vastly simpler.

Red sun is ambiguous since Clark was shown not to be completely depowered the first instant.

Originally posted by h1a8
Then why not just say Clark is depowered? It's simpler don't you think? because everyone else is smart enough to understand something so simple.

Originally posted by Supermex
Fight takes place at your local
Wal-Mart parking lot.

Why would they both fly all the way to China to fight in front of Wal-Mart?

Clark

Originally posted by Scoobless
Why would they both fly all the way to China to fight in front of Wal-Mart?



Clark is powered by the American Way; Ben, by his proximity to Yancy Street. OP OBVIOUSLY meant for them to fight in communist China.

Originally posted by Mindset
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/746/291/adf.jpg

Originally posted by Insane Titan
The outcome of this fight looks Grimm for clark















Get it?
It would mean that Pussy City Boy Grimm would get his ass kicked by Buffed Up Farm Boy Clark.

That's what it means....






Get it?

Originally posted by Mindset
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/746/291/adf.jpg

BWHAHAHAHAHA... You just don't get h1a8 point, I mean, it's a lot easier to say he's depowered, than to be creative and say he's depowered... I mean come on people!!!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Clark is powered by the American Way; Ben, by his proximity to Yancy Street. OP OBVIOUSLY meant for them to fight in communist China.

And nothing embodies communism better than Wal-Mart.

Clark wins.

If it is PF, Clark, he stomps with his battle experience and Torqasm based martial arts.

You dont mean that.

No bold. No red. No all caps. You're just going through the motions but your heart's not in it...

Originally posted by riv6672
You dont mean that.

No bold. No red. No all caps. You're just going through the motions but your heart's not in it...

I don't need all that this time.

Superman throwing a Superman punch is unstoppable!

When done correct, no can defend!

When Superman does it, its just called a punch.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
It would mean that Pussy City Boy Grimm would get his ass kicked by Buffed Up Farm Boy Clark.

That's what it means....






Get it?



Sounds about right.

Clark is a good martial artist, but I think Grimm has a solid edge here. I give Ben the win but both would get in some good licks.

Originally posted by Bentley
Clark is a good martial artist, but I think Grimm has a solid edge here. I give Ben the win but both would get in some good licks.
In DCNU Clark boxes mostly.

^^^all kidding aside, thats about right.

Originally posted by krisblaze
In DCNU Clark boxes mostly.

Well then, he's phucked.

Boxing can still be hella effective. Captain Comet said his brawling skills were formidable, not to mentioned, he took Xa-Du apart with just boxing.

And IIRC, WW has also been training him. A HoE would be able to dig the scans up I'm sure.

Yeah, I don't see why Ben would be favorite here. Clark beat the shit out of Wraith who was stronger than him while being heavily injured with his skills.

Who has Ben beaten with his "skills"? Just because he is a street fighter doesn't mean much.

Well he's hardly just a street fighter, though he is that.
He's well trained in MA and a particularly adept boxer.

I've always considered the two characters comparable prior to the reboot, in that they both have that intangible "heart".
I made this Versus months ago,

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=596913

referencing Marvel Two in One Annual 7 and Superman Vs Muhammed Ali.
In this case, DCnu Superman doesnt seem as skilled as other versions. Give him a few years.

Ben's closer to having an advantage in skill than he is to having a heart advantage

Superman was tanking Vyndktvx's time/reality attacks while being bombarded by blue kryptonite, which literally kills your spirit.

Ha, cute.
We've actually been due to disagree, statistically speaking.

I wonder though, who has Superman fought, the way Ben has...

By that i mean, with just super strength, skill, and invulnerability (the entire fight, with no other powers having been in play, not just a part of that fight), who has out classed him the way opponents like the Hulk and Champion have out classed Ben

...and how's HE done?

DCnU or pre-boot?

Pre-boot has more showings. DCnU, not so much.

Originally posted by riv6672
I wonder though, who has Superman fought, the way Ben has...

By that i mean, with just super strength, skill, and invulnerability (the entire fight, with no other powers having been in play, not just a part of that fight), who has out classed him the way opponents like the Hulk and Champion have out classed Ben

...and how's HE done?

If you use PF he has over a millenia's worth of fighting experience given his time in another dimension. While not depowered during that event, it puts him well above Grimm in terms of applying his skill.

Originally posted by riv6672
I wonder though, who has Superman fought, the way Ben has...

By that i mean, with just super strength, skill, and invulnerability (the entire fight, with no other powers having been in play, not just a part of that fight), who has out classed him the way opponents like the Hulk and Champion have out classed Ben

...and how's HE done?
He fought wraith with three broken ribs and poisoned by kryptonite.

He beat the shit out of him via his skills.

How did that fight start though? Other powers were involved i'm sure.

@DS

Pretty sure its current versions unless specified.
A little late to throw PF in after 3 pages.

Pro Superman side is entitled to their opinions, but shouldnt pretend Superman (any version) goes into a fight, on average at the same level as Ben does. And i say on average to be polite.
Ben's best showings, whether he wins or not, are uphill battles with basic strength and invulnerability.
Superman, not that.

Originally posted by riv6672
How did that fight start though? Other powers were involved i'm sure.

@DS

Pretty sure its current versions unless specified.
A little late to throw PF in after 3 pages.

Pro Superman side is entitled to their opinions, but shouldnt pretend Superman (any version) goes into a fight, on average at the same level as Ben does. And i say on average to be polite.
Ben's best showings, whether he wins or not, are uphill battles with basic strength and invulnerability.
Superman, not that.

You are penalizing the character for his powerset.

If Ben had more powers he would certainly use them as most of his confrontations involve life or death encounters.

When you allow each character to have the same mindset as it would be here, namely both being restricted to their base form, Ben's advantage is dubious.

Well, then you might as well prove that Ben hasn't fought many battles in which he's the major underdog

Originally posted by riv6672
How did that fight start though? Other powers were involved i'm sure.

@DS

Pretty sure its current versions unless specified.
A little late to throw PF in after 3 pages.

Pro Superman side is entitled to their opinions, but shouldnt pretend Superman (any version) goes into a fight, on average at the same level as Ben does. And i say on average to be polite.
Ben's best showings, whether he wins or not, are uphill battles with basic strength and invulnerability.
Superman, not that.
Only flight was used other than strength and durability.

Originally posted by riv6672
How did that fight start though? Other powers were involved i'm sure.

@DS

Pretty sure its current versions unless specified.
A little late to throw PF in after 3 pages.

Pro Superman side is entitled to their opinions, but shouldnt pretend Superman (any version) goes into a fight, on average at the same level as Ben does. And i say on average to be polite.
Ben's best showings, whether he wins or not, are uphill battles with basic strength and invulnerability.
Superman, not that.

Fair enough, I just wanted to say that DCnU has way fewer showings then PF. May sound a bit obvious, but hey.

The problem with Ben's best showings being uphill battles...is that you're comparing a low level brick (amongst the elite strongmen of Marvel) with THE top dog in strength and durability in DC. Of COURSE Ben will have tons of showings of him performing well - because he is usually outclassed. Superman? It's his opponents who are outclassed.

DCNU　Superman still has his fight vs the Superdoom from Earth 45, where he did really well. He also completely stomped that Kryptonian from the Phantom Zone.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Ben's closer to having an advantage in skill than he is to having a heart advantage

Superman was tanking Vyndktvx's time/reality attacks while being bombarded by blue kryptonite, which literally kills your spirit.

Holy ****. Scans?

Originally posted by Delta1938
Holy ****. Scans?
Action comics 15 through 18 or something.

It's probably in the respect thread

You know who has more heart then thing? Oh moon knight. Muahahahaha!

1. http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/MarvelTwoInOne052-13.jpg
2. http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/MarvelTwoInOne052-15.jpg
3. http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/MarvelTwoInOne052-16.jpg

Originally posted by krisblaze
Action comics 15 through 18 or something.

It's probably in the respect thread

Thanks. I actually have the issues, just haven't read them.

Clark wins, grim has no feats to suggest otherwise.

Originally posted by Bentley
Well, then you might as well prove that Ben hasn't fought many battles in which he's the major underdog

Don't try it Frenchie!

Originally posted by -K-M-
You know who has more heart then thing? Oh moon knight. Muahahahaha!

1. http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/MarvelTwoInOne052-13.jpg
2. http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/MarvelTwoInOne052-15.jpg
3. http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/MarvelTwoInOne052-16.jpg
♡scan of Thing one handing Samsquantch♡

Originally posted by -K-M-
You know who has more heart then thing? Oh moon knight. Muahahahaha!

1. http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/MarvelTwoInOne052-13.jpg
2. http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/MarvelTwoInOne052-15.jpg
3. http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/MarvelTwoInOne052-16.jpg

In all honesty, saying someone has "great heart" is often really "they can get their ass kicked badly but impressively stay conscious."

But one of the rare times great heart really does count for more than "get your ass kicked and somehow stay awake" Benjy gets shown up.

In all fairness Superman got the bojangles beaten out of him by Zod, and it really was a whole thing in that arc, Superman not having the same skill as Farore, Zod or Wonder Woman.

In all honesty (or fairness) bran can go to hell and he has a whoreish mouth

Sorry just wanted to keep the Combo going.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Only flight was used other than strength and durability.


Ben cant fly.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
You are penalizing the character for his powerset.

If Ben had more powers he would certainly use them as most of his confrontations involve life or death encounters.

When you allow each character to have the same mindset as it would be here, namely both being restricted to their base form, Ben's advantage is dubious.
You're missing my point.

If you really believe Superman fighting the Hulk uses the same amount of skill as Ben fighting the Hulk, you're mistaken.
Ben's skill is what lets him fight so far outside his weight class.
That skill would let him beat Clark Kent in the OP scenario.

I'm not penalizing Superman, but i'm not selectively calling the most powerful hero ever AND saying every fight he goes into he wins by sheer gumption and h2h skill.

Originally posted by riv6672
Ben cant fly.


You're missing my point.

If you really believe Superman fighting the Hulk uses the same amount of skill as Ben fighting the Hulk, you're mistaken.
Ben's skill is what lets him fight so far outside his weight class.
That skill would let him beat Clark Kent in the OP scenario.

I'm not penalizing Superman, but i'm not selectively calling the most powerful hero ever AND saying every fight he goes into he wins by sheer gumption and h2h skill.
So?

Ben usually just punches it out with hulk. No skills showing there. It wouldn't allow him to beat Clark, since it never matters against a fight with the hulk.

Originally posted by krisblaze
In all fairness Superman got the bojangles beaten out of him by Zod, and it really was a whole thing in that arc, Superman not having the same skill as Farore, Zod or Wonder Woman.
That's just Soule pulling a reason out of his ass to make Diana look good. It flat out contradicts other showings in Superman's own books.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So?
What can i say to an argument on the level of " i know you are but what am i"?

Not my thread, made my point, made it several more times, am comfortable with my opinion, not going to engage in a pointless argument.

You may now post your usual " concession accepted" reply when someone doesnt feel like running something into the ground with you...

Originally posted by abhilegend
So?

Ben usually just punches it out with hulk. No skills showing there. It wouldn't allow him to beat Clark, since it never matters against a fight with the hulk.

I want so see someone standing his ground against a much stronger opponent without any skill

Originally posted by Bentley
I want so see someone standing his ground against a much stronger opponent without any skill
See colossus vs juggernaut.

Colossus regularly uses skill against stronger enemies, though.

Except when he's drunk, or badly written.

Originally posted by riv6672
What can i say to an argument on the level of " i know you are but what am i"?

Not my thread, made my point, made it several more times, am comfortable with my opinion, not going to engage in a pointless argument.

You may now post your usual " concession accepted" reply when someone doesnt feel like running something into the ground with you... I forgot how useless you are.

"Give me a proof".

*proof given*

"This is just my opinion and I'm not gonna change it no matter what you post".

Why ask for anything and waste everybody's time then? Just post one time in every thread and get out from Now on.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Colossus regularly uses skill against stronger enemies, though.

Except when he's drunk, or badly written.
How did I knew you'd come here?

mmm

Originally posted by abhilegend
How did I knew you'd come here?

mmm

my town has a giant metal fist that lights up when someone disses colossus.

still don't have name for it, though...

Originally posted by -Pr-
my town has a giant metal fist that lights up when someone disses colossus.

still don't have name for it, though...

Originally posted by -Pr-
my town has a giant metal fist that lights up when someone disses colossus.

still don't have name for it, though...

Colossus sucks.

Colossus points out in his teenage era fight with the Hulk that Hulk is clearly stronger, so he has to use his speed and skill to even things out.

Originally posted by KingD19
Colossus points out in his teenage era fight with the Hulk that Hulk is clearly stronger, so he has to use his speed and skill to even things out.

And hit him while Hulk is confused and won't fight back

Originally posted by Bentley
And hit him while Hulk is confused and won't fight back Typical commie tricks.

Originally posted by abhilegend
See colossus vs juggernaut.

Juggernaut is particularly lousy. Also PIS.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Colossus regularly uses skill against stronger enemies, though.

Except when he's drunk, or badly written.

Me I think the other characters are badly written when Piotr uses skill biscuits

Originally posted by abhilegend
I forgot how useless you are.

"Give me a proof".

*proof given*

"This is just my opinion and I'm not gonna change it no matter what you post".

Why ask for anything and waste everybody's time then? Just post one time in every thread and get out from Now on.

I never actually asked for proof, just wondered at how Superman's skill can be compared to Ben's, when Superman goes into fights without needing as much skill due to a more varied power set.

You then low sold your own character, first implying he fought someone "with 3 broken ribs" using nothing but strength and invulnerability, then begrudgingly adding flight, when pressed. I'm sure he used more powers, though...

And really, since i have NEVER seen you change your opinion on Superman, seen you literally go on for 5-7 pages on a point you wont change your opinion on, ignoring or down playing every fact presented you, becoming more abusive to the posters doing so, who should just post once in every thread?

Shhh.

You dont have to answer. Everyone here can see your hypocrisy.

Why are you two bickering?

Also, why do you have a Roman Reigns sig?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Also, why do you have a Roman Reigns sig?

He believes

Originally posted by riv6672
I never actually asked for proof, just wondered at how Superman's skill can be compared to Ben's, when Superman goes into fights without needing as much skill due to a more varied power set. Translation :I asked for feats, but when that turned against me, I just ignored them saying "Uh, I was just wondering".

Save this BS for someone else.

You then low sold your own character, first implying he fought someone "with 3 broken ribs" using nothing but strength and invulnerability, then begrudgingly adding flight, when pressed. I'm sure he used more powers, though... Yeah, flight is so useful for punching stuff out. I'm sure if Thing had flight, he'd have beaten hulk everytime. And you're welcome to post the scans where he used other powers other than those. I've changed my opinions before. Unlike you, I don't run away anytime someone says something I don't believe saying "Yeah, it's my opinion". And everyone knows you're just wasting their time by being this passive aggressive antagonizing hypocrite. But hey, it's my opinion, what are you gonna do?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why are you two bickering?

Also, why do you have a Roman Reigns sig? He believes Reigns deserves wrestlemania main event more than Daniel Bryan.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He believes Reigns deserves wrestlemania main event more than Daniel Bryan.



That's unfortunate.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He believes Reigns deserves wrestlemania main event more than Daniel Bryan.



He can get ****ed, so.

Originally posted by -Pr-
He can get ****ed, so.
You should see him on herochat. Apparently Reigns has more talent than Bryan and Bryan is burying him.

...Wut.

Come on, you're kidding.

Reigns is the Rock's little cousin. That counts for something...I think?

Originally posted by -Pr-
...Wut.

Come on, you're kidding.
Not one percent unfortunately. This is one of his gems.


You should see him there. It's quite laughable.

Reigns is the real-life Seth Rollins... Minus the nudes.

Clark via pressure points.

Giving this to Superman tbh. Ben is good, I just think Clark is better.

Clark's not nearly as skilled as Diana, but he'll win this one

No, he's not as skilled as her or Batman but he's learned some moves from both of them assuming we're talking about pre-reboot. Clark wins.

why would we be talking pre reboot?

If this is DCNU Superman, he gets destroyed.

Originally posted by carver9
If this is DCNU Superman, he gets destroyed.

You are a lying Gammite!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
You are a lying Gammite!



No.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why are you two bickering?

Also, why do you have a Roman Reigns sig?
Why are you two talking shit about me, and what i've said or not said (and its not) on other sites?
Name dropping, bad form yeah?

My question was directed at you, though. So not really the same thing.

You might as well put Brock Lesner in his prime (Ben) in against Michael Anthony Hall in The Breakfast Club (Clark)

Originally posted by -Pr-
My question was directed at you, though. So not really the same thing.
I gotcha. "House" rules.

Originally posted by riv6672
I gotcha. "House" rules.

No. I asked you, and he answered instead.

And besides, it's more about Roman Reigns being shit than anything.

Yeah, i gotcha.
Its okay to do what he did.
My mistake.