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1. Darth Malak

2. Darth Maul

3. Darth Sion

4. Darth Tyranus

5. Darth Revan (before memory wipe)

6. Wrath II

7. Darth Vader (ESB)

8. Darth Malgus

9. Exar Kun

Boss. Tulak Hord

I want to know why he looses or why he wins, don't just say "looses at 7" or "stomps until 5", I want to know why he wins or loses the battle, what his upper hands are and what his weak ends are.

Go!

looses at 2

Dies at 5. Don't really care how you want that answer either.

Gets to 9, boss or clears. He's faster and more powerful than almost everyone here, with incredible lightning and TK to help him and the orbalisk armor is simply too big of an advantage for most to overcome.

The first 3 or 5 can be quite easily taken out by him in sabers or the Force (Dooku offering some challenge with sabers but ultimately his style is utterly ill-matched against Bane). Wrath is probably a simple fight too. Vader offers some challenge with TK but is outmatched by Bane's lightning and saber prowess. Malgus gives a great fight but is ultimately outclassed imo in all area's. IMO Bane is basically an upgraded version of Malgus + Orbalisks.

Then its a matter of how you think Bane stacks up against Hord and Kun. Kun's amulet blasts are haxxed, but so Bane's armor, speed and lightning are all significant advantages for him. Hord is a monster but can we put him above Bane based on accolades alone?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Dies at 5. Don't really care how you want that answer either.

How does Darth Revan kill him but Dooku doesn't? Lightning?

Originally posted by Trocity
looses at 2



Maul wins with difficulty thanks to orbalisks. He's just more powerful, more skilled, and better trained.

...Why is Tulak Hord the boss?

Anyways, yeah. Maul gets him.

Why would Tulak Hord not be the boss? Annihilating armies of Jedi, ripping capital ships out of the sky, being a master sorcerer and having legendary saber skill isn't something to sneer at.

How does Maul get him? By rights Bane should incinerate the fool.

Originally posted by The_Tempest


Maul wins with difficulty thanks to orbalisks. He's just more powerful, more skilled, and better trained.

Loses all

Loses to Maul. Reasons already provided by Temp.

BTW I'm not sure why Sion is even here and placed so high. Similar case with Hord. Apart from his uber-hype he is virtually featless.

Yes, Sion gets stomped by everyone here.

As you can see Tondemonai, you'll get no consensus on Bane and wildly different idea's on his level of power. Some laughably underrate him and some hype him alot. There's little middle ground.

Well, most people in this thread say Bane loses to Maul. Take it as you want.

Bane loses to Maul simply because it pleases me.

^ Fanboi

Originally posted by Stigma
Well, most people in this thread say Bane loses to Maul. Take it as you want.

Most of the Bane supporters have basically migrated to a new forum because carthage and others are so obnoxious.

I'm also the only one who properly backed up his opinion, so take that as you want.

DMB and his friends are no loss by any stretch of the imagination. They don't know much about the EU, seldom if ever actually engage in conversation, and rarely if ever post any topics (well Bantha does).

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm also the only one who properly backed up his opinion, so take that as you want.
True. But I'm sure you cannot hold it against us, as the topic of Orbalisk Bane was really done to death.

I'd do Orb Bane vs Maul whenever. I know that I'd win, as I always have.

Obviously I won't discuss anything with carthage though. I happen to like my sanity.

Originally posted by carthage
DMB and his friends are no loss by any stretch of the imagination. They don't know much about the EU, seldom if ever actually engage in conversation, and rarely if ever post any topics (well Bantha does).

They rarely engage in conversations because you're such a pain that it's not worth it. And for other reasons.

You've lost most of the debates I've ever seen you take part in, and are literally always called out for your double standards in posting. But ok.

Bane probably clears this.

@Neph, good luck getting your message across. I respect what you're trying to achieve here.

Anderson more or less confirmed that Kun's blasts were influenced/made more powerful by the temples when I emailed him.

So yeah, it was confirmed once and for all as a nexus feat.

I thought we sort of, knew that anyway? From the comics alone it's made clear that these areas like Yavin and Korriban are saturated with the dark side, and the temple itself was noted as having tremendous energies within it.

Well Neph called his blasts "hax" on page 1 implying that he could attain that level of power regardless, which is wrong.

Originally posted by Sinious
Bane probably clears this.

@Neph, good luck getting your message across. I respect what you're trying to achieve here.

Thanks.

I respect you too Neph, you're an underdog and everyone loves an underdog

Revan before memory wipe XD He have no chance. Stop at 5...

What does Revan have from before his memory wipe to suggest he'd beat Bane.

I'm pretty sure all he has is toasting some rancors, beating some non-force sensitives and getting pwned by Vitiate.

Originally posted by Nephthys

How does Darth Revan kill him but Dooku doesn't? Lightning?
That was my reasoning at the time.

Alright so I guess he either clears it or gets stomped by Maul or Revan.

I put Sion high on this list for his survivability. Plus he was reasonably skilled with a lightsaber, though I regret putting him above Maul.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Alright so I guess he either clears it or gets stomped by Maul or Revan.

Lol. Didn't really help you narrow things down, did it?

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Alright so I guess he either clears it or gets stomped by Maul or Revan.

I put Sion high on this list for his survivability. Plus he was reasonably skilled with a lightsaber, though I regret putting him above Maul.
To be more specific, 7 people say Bane loses to Maul, 2 say he stops at Revan and 2 say that he clears.

The "Bane goes down to Maul" option is the most prevalent.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Most of the Bane supporters have basically migrated to a new forum because Bane haters are so obnoxious.

I'm also the only one who properly backed up his opinion, so take that as you want.

Who cares?

Yeah. Speaking just about the numbers, as I think the OP meant, the verdict of the majority is that Maul beats Bane.

Originally posted by Stigma
To be more specific, 7 people say Bane loses to Maul, 2 say he stops at Revan and 2 say that he clears.

The "Bane goes down to Maul" option is the most prevalent.
Originally posted by carthage
Who cares?

Gets to 4 IMO.

@ ares, you messed things up, bro.

This is weakling Bane with Orbalisk armor, he could get higher due to the fact he sucks and needs armor due to mask his lack of skill

Originally posted by carthage
Who cares?

Tondemonai? If he's using this is establish Bane's level then it's important to be noted that most of the people who rate him highly have left in disgust recently. At least equal numbers with those who think he loses to Maul.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Tondemonai? If he's using this is establish Bane's level then it's important to be noted that most of the people who rate him highly have left in disgust recently. At least equal numbers with those who think he loses to Maul.
And?

We're talking about votes that were made. Not that I assume the majority is always right, but the fact is that in this case the majority's vote is clear. There is no way around that tbh.

Originally posted by Stigma
@ ares, you messed things up, bro.

Nope. Who cares about the opinion of the majority. It isn't necessarily correct. It's a fallacy, argumentum ad populum.

Originally posted by Stigma
And?

We're talking about votes that were made. Not that I assume the majority is always right, but the fact is that in this case the majority's vote is clear. There is no way around that tbh.

And Tondemonai hasn't said anything about votes. So you trying to act as if this proves anything or that he should be beholden to the will of the public doesn't actually establish anything.

Originally posted by ares834
Nope. Who cares about the opinion of the majority. It isn't necessarily correct. It's a fallacy, argumentum ad populum.
I never said otherwise

I simply gave bare facts of what is the predomiant opinion, if the OP cared, or based his opinion on it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And Tondemonai hasn't said anything about votes. So you trying to act as if this proves anything or that he should be beholden to the will of the public doesn't actually establish anything.
Not at all. I simply gave the round-up of the votes, because it seemed to me that the OP was confused what's the general concensus. Nowhere did I say that it is the right opinion.

Originally posted by Stigma
Not at all, I simply gave the round-up of the votes, because it seemed to me that the OP was confused what's the general concensus. Nowhere did I say that it is the right opinion.

And then I simply pointed out that the general consensus is skewed because several prominent member's haven't posted here, and that their votes and arguments likely would have evened out the vote. Just for contexts sake.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And then I simply pointed out that the general consensus is skewed because several prominent member's haven't posted here, and that their votes and arguments likely would have evened out the vote. Just for contexts sake.
What prominent posters?

Trocity, Freshest, Tempest, S66, cart, ILS, angelalex, Sinious, ares, revanchiste (yes, that's right), you and myself (lol) already posted so no worries here.

Originally posted by Stigma
What prominent posters?

Trocity, Tempest, S66, cart, ILS, angelalex and myself (lol) already posted so no worries here.

Ant, DMB, Bantha, Skillz, Joker.

Also Legend and Neb I guess, lol.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ant, DMB, Bantha, Skillz, Joker.

Also Legend and Neb I guess, lol.
I see.

and McP, Ancient, Merchant, Fated, Selenial, Jack, Nalaniel, Based, Vorpal Ruin, Lightsnake, Nai, Beefy, Stealth, Zampano, Skybreaker (RIP) etc. etc.

Now THAT would be a debate!

Originally posted by Nephthys
Joker. https://33.media.tumblr.com/2bf628493d2f935dbb1061badf7e2df8/tumblr_mmyypkof5E1rav1sho1_500.gif

Sup.

Stops at 7 or 8, maybe gets to nine but that's where he definitely stops. Also this list is kinda wack.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
https://33.media.tumblr.com/2bf628493d2f935dbb1061badf7e2df8/tumblr_mmyypkof5E1rav1sho1_500.gif

LMAO

Originally posted by Stigma
I see.

and McP, Ancient, Merchant, Fated, Selenial, Jack, Nalaniel, Based, Vorpal Ruin, Lightsnake, Nai, Beefy, Stealth, Zampano, Skybreaker (RIP) etc. etc.

Darth Power, Mizukage Yoda/Lord Stark and Intrepid37 are/were a great debaters.


Well, I also think, that Maul is more powerful, more skilled and far more deadly. But.
Well, I don't think, that DoE Bane would be able to beat Maul. But Orbaliski Bane from RoT? I'm not sure if Maul will be able to penetrate his armor.
If this is SF Malak he should be able to defeat Bane with his FL. Yeah, Bane dies at Malak. If not, he will rape Sion (who is among the worst Sith ever) if he will defeat Maul before. But he wont pass Revan or Dooku.

Bane can block lightning, you know. And his armor actually absorbs over a million volts of it (that is, a half dozen electrostaff attacks, each one of which can fry a bantha).

There are sometimes exaggerations in the books, you know (as well as in the games, comics, cartoons). Only movies are free of that.
Bane couldn't overpower Zannah's lightsaber's defense with his own lightning. Sidious could disarm even Yoda with his FL, and - according to the ROTS novel and being supported by Lucas' quote - he was able to overpower Windu's defense with his FL.
Bane was unable to to the same against faaaar less powerful and skilled combatant. His lighning is faaaaaaaaaaar inferior to Sidious. Pure feats against other combatants suggest, that his FL was below average imo.

Flawless logic.

Bane's lightning is below average, even though he can instantly turn people into ash with it. Which, to my sleep-deprived knowledge, no-one else we know about but Sidious has ever achieved. Sure.

Maybe Zannah can block his lightning because she's equally as strong as Bane is in the Force and was in a good situation. Whereas Yoda had previously shown himself very capable of blocking Sidious' lightning and subsequently achieved the much more difficult feat of deflecting it with his hand instead of his saber, indicating that he was just off-guard when Sidious disarmed him. Windu was also not overwhelmed by Sidious' lightning. If you actually watch the scene Windu is constantly able to push forward through his lightning, which is the complete opposite of being overpowered.

But no Malak totally beats Bane because he once killed a random Jedi with lightning. Surely Bane is no match for him.

Also Zannah wasn't far less powerful than Mace and Yoda.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Flawless logic.

Bane's lightning is below average, even though he can instantly turn people into ash with it. Which, to my sleep-deprived knowledge, no-one else we know about but Sidious has ever achieved. Sure.



Nyriss?

Oh yeah.

But charged up. So I'm still not counting it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ant, DMB, Bantha, Skillz, Joker.

Also Legend and Neb I guess, lol.
I am extremely hurt that you took the time to remove names, including my own.

You're the 3rd post in the thread, why would I mention you as someone who hasn't posted yet?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh yeah.

But charged up. So I'm still not counting it.

Still... a little charge up can get someone who's lightning is stated to be infinitely inferior to Vitiate's lightning to reach that level. I'm not saying Bane's lightning is average but he isn't close to the likes of Vitiate or Sidious when it comes to lightning. So comparing his lightning to Sidious cause of that feat isn't flawless logic either.

As I said, exaggerated. And possibly on a nexus, like his all feats.

No it wasn't. And BS on it being exaggerated. If there's other examples of disintegration in separate works it can hardly be an exaggeration.

Originally posted by Sinious
Still... a little charge up can get someone who's lightning is stated to be infinitely inferior to Vitiate's lightning to reach that level. I'm not saying Bane's lightning is average but he isn't close to the likes of Vitiate or Sidious when it comes to lightning. So comparing his lightning to Sidious cause of that feat isn't flawless logic either.

Well I disagree with that. Remember firstly that Bane reached that level as of PoD and had a further 20 years to improve on that. And yeah, I do believe that Vitiate's lightning is the greatest version of it, but not vastly greater than Bane and Sidious' or anything. But I see nothing wrong with comparing it to Sidious'. Both showed it as the highest level of the technique. That Nyriss can reach those levels by charging up only proves how powerful she really was. Her standard lightning was much less powerful though as I recall.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Well I disagree with that. Remember firstly that Bane reached that level as of PoD and had a further 20 years to improve on that. And yeah, I do believe that Vitiate's lightning is the greatest version of it, but not vastly greater than Bane and Sidious' or anything. But I see nothing wrong with comparing it to Sidious'. Both showed it as the highest level of the technique. That Nyriss can reach those levels by charging up only proves how powerful she really was.

Revan's reaction to Nyriss' lightning(that was on the same level with PoD Bane's lightning) and his reaction to Vitiate's lightning kinda proves the huge difference between their(Vitiate and Bane's) capabilities in this era. And PoD Bane had 20 years to improve after that which is good but Vitiate had 300 years to do the same.

A force battle between Vitiate and Bane wouldn't be a stomp, same with Sidious and Bane. But it would surely end before Bane could engage them in a duel(not that it matters against Sidious but you get the point).

Originally posted by Sinious
Revan's reaction to Nyriss' lightning(that was on the same level with PoD Bane's lightning) and his reaction to Vitiate's lightning kinda proves the huge difference between their(Vitiate and Bane's) capabilities in this era. And PoD Bane had 20 years to improve after that which is good but Vitiate had 300 years to do the same.

A force battle between Vitiate and Bane wouldn't be a stomp, same with Sidious and Bane. But it would surely end before Bane could engage them in a duel(not that it matters against Sidious but you get the point).

I don't really see how. Both lightning attacks were charged up and not representative of their standard lightning. Nyriss' standard lightning just turned non-force sensitives into charred husks, which is a far cry from her charged version blasting through a shield and incinerating herself. Vitiate's charged lightning is vastly greater than PoD Bane's regular lightning, sure. But is his standard version? Better, surely. But not by a large amount. It does show how really freaking good Revan's tutaminis is though.

And Bane's learning rate is gigantic, he was summoning force storms an hour after learning force lightning. So he could still compete there in less time, especially since I'm not sure Vitiate would be working on his lightning instead of the deepest secrets of the darkside or whatever it says he was exploring somewhere.

But anyway, I think I've made my point. Bane's lightning is still top or near top tier and above basically any other Sith's whose name isn't Sidious or Vitiate.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't really see how. Both lightning attacks were charged up and not representative of their standard lightning. Nyriss' standard lightning just turned non-force sensitives into charred husks, which is a far cry from her charged version blasting through a shield and incinerating herself. Vitiate's charged lightning is vastly greater than PoD Bane's regular lightning, sure. But is his standard version? Better, surely. But not by a large amount. It does show how really freaking good Revan's tutaminis is though.

I said Nyriss' charged lightning is on same levee with PoD Bane.

What else does Bane have to compare to Vitiate exactly? I mean melting down wild animals is sure fun but I think the best display of lightning can be seen when applied against other force users.



Fair point on Bane. Vitiate was just collecting more power from others to increase his force aura in order to be strong enough for the galaxy devouring ritual. This means he was more powerful overall and so naturally his lightning was more devastating in SWTOR.



I can accept near top at most.

What about Revan or Nox? I'm also inclined to believe that Plagueis was better mostly due to the nature of RoT.

Ok so this kinda shifted onto who has stronger lightning but whatever.

I wasn't very spacific about some things. I'm judging how he does partly on majority vote and mostly on who can make the best argument for why he loses/completes it

Originally posted by Sinious
I said Nyriss' charged lightning is on same levee with PoD Bane.

What else does Bane have to compare to Vitiate exactly? I mean melting down wild animals is sure fun but I think the best display of lightning can be seen when applied against other force users.

Yeah.

Eh, well he's disintegrated rock and melted blasters with it. Not much against Force users unless you want to count himself in there. Personally though I find attacks against force users harder to quantify. Its all invisible forces and theres a ton of variables between individual force users and so its quite messy imo.

Originally posted by Sinious
Fair point on Bane. Vitiate was just collecting more power from others to increase his force aura in order to be strong enough for the galaxy devouring ritual. This means he was more powerful overall and so naturally his lightning was more devastating in SWTOR.

Sure. Vitiate is still the king.

Originally posted by Sinious
I can accept near top at most.

What about Revan or Nox? I'm also inclined to believe that Plagueis was better mostly due to the nature of RoT.

Why Revan? IIRC the best he's done is kill some Rancor's. Nox is also very good and so is Malgus but I still put Bane above them personally.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah.

Eh, well he's disintegrated rock and melted blasters with it. Not much against Force users unless you want to count himself in there. Personally though I find attacks against force users harder to quantify. Its all invisible forces and theres a ton of variables between individual force users and so its quite messy imo.

Well, none of these come close to Vitiate's insta-stunning and then overwhelming the strike team with FLS bro.

Btw, do you believe that Sidious and Bane are moreorless equals in lightning?



Revan used it a lot against the strike teams he faced but yeah I get what you mean, he technically doesn't have any specific achievements with FL.

Maul kills him every time.

Ok? So the gauntlet people are considering him without the orbalisks (even though they're in the OP)? If so he probably loses all of them. He can beat Hord given Hord is featless

I honestly didn't expect you to say he loses to Sion.

Oh, haha I didn't see Sion. No he beats him. Malak and Bane can go either way though. He's no match for anyone else without his orbalisks though

Bane kicks Malaks ass and you know it. Malak's got nothing on Bane disintegrating people with one-handed blasts of lightning, or him disintegrating a dozen technobeasts with a wave of his hand. Nor does he have the strength or speed feats Bane does, of ripping durasteel doors off their hinges and blowing opponents sabers out of their hands in one strike, or being faster than a room of Sith could perceive and moving so fast it appeared he was wielding a dozen sabers at once. And Malak has literally nothing on Orbalisk Bane in lightsaber combat.

He also takes Maul and Sion no problems.

(this was mostly for Tondemonai's sake more than anything)

Originally posted by Sinious
Well, none of these come close to Vitiate's insta-stunning and then overwhelming the strike team with FLS bro.

Btw, do you believe that Sidious and Bane are moreorless equals in lightning?



Revan used it a lot against the strike teams he faced but yeah I get what you mean, he technically doesn't have any specific achievements with FL.

Yes.

Also, Plagueis has some mad weak lightning game. He's barely used it.

You infidel

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane kicks Malaks ass and you know it. Malak's got nothing on Bane disintegrating people with one-handed blasts of lightning, or him disintegrating a dozen technobeasts with a wave of his hand. Nor does he have the strength or speed feats Bane does, of ripping durasteel doors off their hinges and blowing opponents sabers out of their hands in one strike, or being faster than a room of Sith could perceive and moving so fast it appeared he was wielding a dozen sabers at once. And Malak has literally nothing on Orbalisk Bane in lightsaber combat.

He also takes Maul and Sion no problems.

(this was mostly for Tondemonai's sake more than anything)



Yes.

Also, Plagueis has some mad weak lightning game. He's barely used it. thank you

I've had time to reconsider my answer and I still say Maul takes him down in a close fight.

Even with the massive orbalisk advantage?

Maul is far faster and a much better fighter than Amped Raskta, he is one of the greatest top tier duelists of all time and Orbalisks aren't enough to counter that. Hell Darth Maul likely even has the Force advantage in combative applications.

No, he's not and no he doesn't. Nothing you said was accurate.

1. Darth Malak

Malak is outclassed.

2. Darth Maul

Maul simply cannot not go pound-for-pound and blow-for-blow against Orbalisk Bane. Bane is too well protected, too strong, and too aggressive. Maul might be able to temporarily mount an offensive against Bane just like Raskta did, but it won't last long. Maul is very good on the defensive though, so he might be able to hold out for a while, but ultimately Maul's sabers will be useless against Bane's Orbalisk armor.

Maul has powerful TK, but Bane isn't Kenobi. Maul won't be ragdolling Bane and Maul has no answer for Bane's lightning.

Whether through sabers or force, in the end, Bane would win.

3. Darth Sion

Traya was able to break Sion, so he's not unbeatable. Just like Malak, Sion is outclassed.

4. Darth Tyranus

Of course, Tyranus is an incredibly skilled duelist who is known for his precision. It's not inconceivable to believe that Dooku could win a few rounds by scoring hits on Bane's unarmored parts, but I don't see him taking the majority. Bane's aggression and power would overwhelm Dooku just like Anakin did.

Force-wise, Bane's lightning is just plain better than Dooku's as well.

5. Darth Revan (before memory wipe)

I am of the opinion that Malak was not lying when he said that he surpassed Darth Revan, so I would give Bane the win here. I will also admit that my opinion contradicts Drew's, where he said that Revan, Bane, and Vader are all on the same tier. Drew may be an authoritative source, but his opinion is not canon.

6. Wrath II

I don't play ToR, but based on how others have described Wrath 2, I think Bane could pull off a win.

7. Darth Vader (ESB) and 8. Darth Malgus

I have Bane > Vader > Malgus. Unless Vader can somehow crush the orbalisks, Vader's strength will not help him here. Some might argue that Vader could ragdoll Bane with TK, but I'm not seeing it.

9. Exar Kun

Not sure, Kun is pretty skilled and powerful.

Boss. Tulak Hord

Tulak is too much of an unknown to judge.

Bane wank is strong here, if an apprentice can score a hit on Bane's wrist then Darth Maul will destroy him. Orbalisk armor isn't infallible, Maul is far more skilled and talented than anyone in the Bane era.

Maul wins he is simply better in every way you can compare them. He is able to compete competently with Darth Sidious without a Form based advantage or equal Force Power. Maul is one of the greatest Sith Warriors of all time, people need to read his content properly.

Bane just isn't good enough to compete with high tier Sith without armor.

Bane's tough.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Bane wank is strong here, if an apprentice can score a hit on Bane's wrist then Darth Maul will destroy him. Orbalisk armor isn't infallible, Maul is far more skilled and talented than anyone in the Bane era.

Maul wins he is simply better in every way you can compare them. He is able to compete competently with Darth Sidious without a Form based advantage or equal Force Power. Maul is one of the greatest Sith Warriors of all time, people need to read his content properly.

With Battle Meditation and while Bane was fighting 2 other people. Maul seriously isn't that skilled and you're underselling the Bane era. Even Farfalla's form was described as "perfect" and Raskta was almost preternaturally skilled and prodigious.

He's not better than Bane in any way. You keep saying that but you haven't said why or offered proof. Sidious was toying with him and could have beaten him at any point. And Bane is also one of the greatest Sith Lords of all time as well as the Sith'ari. You know, the God of the Sith with "perfect strength, perfect power."

red8

Originally posted by AncientPower
Bane wank is strong here, if an apprentice can score a hit on Bane's wrist then Darth Maul will destroy him. Orbalisk armor isn't infallible, Maul is far more skilled and talented than anyone in the Bane era.

Maul wins he is simply better in every way you can compare them. He is able to compete competently with Darth Sidious without a Form based advantage or equal Force Power. Maul is one of the greatest Sith Warriors of all time, people need to read his content properly.
Well said

Lol.

Come back to this thread and among the first things I see are "Maul isn't better than Bane in anyway" "Maul isn't even that skilled, Sidious was toying with him" "Bane is the Sith'ari with perfect hyperbole"

Cancer is rampant in this thread.

Originally posted by ILS
Lol.

Come back to this thread and among the first things I see are "Maul isn't better than Bane in anyway" "Maul isn't even that skilled, Sidious was toying with him" "Bane is the Sith'ari with perfect hyperbole"

Cancer is rampant in this thread.
lol gotta admit that Bane's hyperbole is precious

Originally posted by ILS
Lol.

Come back to this thread and among the first things I see are "Maul isn't better than Bane in anyway" "Maul isn't even that skilled, Sidious was toying with him" "Bane is the Sith'ari with perfect hyperbole"

Cancer is rampant in this thread.

Actually I said that Maul isn't better than Bane in any way as in he's not superior in all aspects than him. I'm sure even you'd agree with that. There are aspects where Bane is the clear and apparent superior.

"He's not better than Bane in any way" - Neph

The only area Bane is superior to Maul is 00ber l1ghtn1ng

Maul would kick his ass in every other area

Bane's knowledge of the Force and willpower greatly exceeds Mauls. He knows a bunch of techniques that Maul doesn't. He's smarter than Maul as well.

These are all pretty solid.

That's true. Bane's also better than everyone which is a notable factor we all must consider.

Nah, I'm semi-sure the Father > him. I'm 50-50 on the Son and Daughter but they have a clear shot. Abeloth gets stomped.

Nihilus is also infinitely greater and cooler.

Shut up.

I am sorry that you cannot handle the Sith'ari swag. I know that one day you will be ready to take his Thought Bomb (penis).

Also when I said "Maul seriously isn't that skilled" I obviously meant that Maul isn't so skilled that he's vastly better than everyone from the Bane era like AP thinks. I wasn't suggesting that Maul isn't very skilled. ILS you're misrepresenting me.

I'd say he stops with Sidious' lightning

Maul is superior duelist to every single guy from Bane's era. Lsu is, at best, on Fisto's level. Amped Lsu, I mean. Without amp, she's below Luminara.

Yeah, she's probably more or less Unduli or Vos level.

The point of making an argument is null because apparently Bane is infallible and Darth Maul despite far superior feats and accolades than Bane (without amps) is a newbie brute with no actual skill. Because fighting Obi-Wan, Windu, Ventress and Sidious(on repeated occasions) is average.

Neph honestly you've done nothing but dismiss opinions and replace them with your own Bane wankery. Darth Maul has the better physical and combat feats by A decent degree, anyone unbiased sees that right away.

Carthage is right, in moderation, almost all of Bane's impressive feats are aided in one way or another, A fact you ignore. Now I don't believe that Bane call only beat trainees and Mercenaries, he is indeed very powerful but applying his nexus feats in comparison to non-amp feats is just as bad on your part.


Darth Maul is a better fighter, he lives and breathes combat, Bane isn't nearly as focused.

I don't see how you've done anything better than dismiss opinions and replace them with Maul wank. It's what you've done the whole thread.

Bane has his orbalisks here. So it doesn't matter whether he needs to be amped or not, he is here.

Sidious isn't as focused either. We saw how that went.

Yet you were the one calling me out for proving nothing despite you yourself having done nothing of the sort.

Bane has his orbalisks but that does not make him unbeatable, Darth Maul is far more talented and skilled not to mention honed for the sole purpose of a complete martial victory by Darth Sidious himself.

Finally, Darth Sidious does not need to focus because he is literally the Dark Side of the Force. The same cannot be said for Darth Bane.

At least I've posted feats and made actual arguments, unlike some people. >:[

Yeah, his superior feats make him.... well, not unbeatable but better than Maul! Without the amp bs you use to dismiss his feats he's better than Maul is. Bane has all his feats here, even the "amped" one's so he takes Maul apart.

And Bane is literally the God of the Sith. I recognize your hyperbole and counter with my own! Also Bane doesn't need to focus either because he's already built as **** and fully mastered the saber in a year or two thanks to his insane learning rate.

^
Oh, so now you're arguing, that Bane is somehow comperable to Sidious? XD

More as an example than a direct comparison.

Wall, statement that Sidious is the Dark Side is obvious exaggeration. Personally, I consider this "DE Sidious", "Sidious is the Dark Side" and "Sidious' Force Strom > entire Galaxy" as really stupid and exaggerated. We can't assume, that character who we have seen in six movies, two cartoons, a lot of comics and books after even 1999, is far superior to the others from his league, just because there is a comic from '91-'95. That is just stupid. Really stupid. But it's your choice guys.
Anyway, the fact with I agree with, is that ROTS Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history. Before he reached his reached his peak, Plagueis was.
Bane can't even hope, to defeat Sidious. Just as Sidious' hype is exaggerated, Bane's is as well. The fact is, that most of his feats were on DS' nexuses. You can ingore my arguments, that Bane couldn't overpower Zannah with his FL, but it only proves that it wasn't that strong. Zannah herself admited, that she wasn't a saber specialist (which would be necessary to defend against lightning if Sidious' caliber). Sarro, Lsu, Bane, and possibly Kas'Im were her superior. And this is really pathetic, to assume that those group of fighters was comperable to the best duelists of the Clone Wars era, like Sidious, Yoda, Dooku, Windu, Anakin, Obi-Wan and Maul.
Dooku was possibly the greatest Makashi master in history, Mace create his own style and mastered it to perfection. Sidious supported his saber mastery with his superior Force argumentation, and Yoda was alsmost untouchble with his agility, speed and small size. Obi-Wan was called by Windu as "the Master" of Soresu (which may be an exaggeration as well). Anakin's legendary strenght in the Force supported his great Djem So. And Maul could compete with most of those guys on equal terms.

Back to FL, you also pointed, that Sidious catched Yoda off guard. That's not true. Yoda was on the edge of platform, and that may be the reason. But he was fully guarded just before Sidious used his FL.
Also, Mace on the screen was able to defend himself against Sidious FL only because Sidious wasn't using his full power. Lucas himself admited, that Sidious was faking. If he would not, Stover's novel is the only alternative answer - Mace would be pushed to his limits, and would be finally overhelmed if Sidious would decided to not stop attacking him.

Bane's lightning is far inferior to Sidious'.

.

Originally posted by Nephthys
At least I've posted feats and made actual arguments, unlike some people. >:

Yes well calling me out for providing no evidence to my arguments is rather inane given that anyone can attest to those exact narrative accolades.

'Amp BS'? It is roundly accepted that feats performed whilst amplified are not representative of A character's real power, otherwise everyone would put Anakin Skywalker in stomp positions due to Mortis feats.

Darth Maul has soundly defeated much greater opponents than Darth Bane has. They have more feats, hype and accolades. Darth Maul is only outmatched against the likes of the man whom trained him, even then Maul has an impressive record against his Sith master.

Orbalisk armor has weaknesses, namely the face and considering this Maul can most certainly get around his plot armor. Maul is a confirmed master of multiple lightsaber forms and martial arts, he was trained to absolute perfection in martial combat by the second greatest martial combatant in the lore. That isn't hyperbole, but fact. Facts Bane can't compare to.

Bane is the Sith'ari certainly but that never actually inferred godlike power. By comparison Darth Sidious is literally A living nexus of Dark Side energy so potent that other Force Users only see blackholes in the Force when viewing him. Coincidentally Darth Sidious can unleash powers similar to black holes so there is that.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yes well calling me out for providing no evidence to my arguments is rather inane given that anyone can attest to those exact narrative accolades.

'Amp BS'? It is roundly accepted that feats performed whilst amplified are not representative of A character's real power, otherwise everyone would put Anakin Skywalker in stomp positions due to Mortis feats.

Darth Maul has soundly defeated much greater opponents than Darth Bane has. They have more feats, hype and accolades. Darth Maul is only outmatched against the likes of the man whom trained him, even then Maul has an impressive record against his Sith master.

Orbalisk armor has weaknesses, namely the face and considering this Maul can most certainly get around his plot armor. Maul is a confirmed master of multiple lightsaber forms and martial arts, he was trained to absolute perfection in martial combat by the second greatest martial combatant in the lore. That isn't hyperbole, but fact. Facts Bane can't compare to.

Bane is the Sith'ari certainly but that never actually inferred godlike power. By comparison Darth Sidious is literally A living nexus of Dark Side energy so potent that other Force Users only see blackholes in the Force when viewing him. Coincidentally Darth Sidious can unleash powers similar to black holes so there is that.

Not really. I'm calling you out on saying that Maul is better in every respect and has far superior feats yet not actually giving those feats or offering evidence to support such an assertion. Meanwhile I have posted many feats for Bane. So you're being utterly wrong and hypocritical in suggesting that all I'm doing is dismissing opinions and replacing them with Bane wank when you've done nothing but the same with Maul.

Yet there is no reason to dismiss those feats out of hand and suggest they're completely irrelevant. If a character performs an amped feat before their prime then surely they'd be capable of repeating it when at it (provided the amp isn't too extensive). Maybe to a slightly lesser extent. Bane's actually demonstrated this to be true btw. And If a character performs an amped feat quite easily, then there's no reason to think they couldn't replicate it with much more effort. Again, at worst to a slightly diminished capacity. Both which apply to Bane. And theres the problem with amps, like nexus', being ambiguous and not properly mentioned to be taking place. So yeah, I'd say little critical evaluation is far preferable to outright dismissal. Maul would need to have his power doubled or more to perform Bane's Temple feat, not accounting for the prep. And Bane performed it in his lesser incarnation. So I have no problems with saying he's greater in TK to him, supported again with Bane's technobeast disintegration feat. And as I said, Bane IS amped here, so it's irrelevant. So how does Maul stack up to a full power Bane with all his feats? Not well I think.

Eh.... has he really? Qui-Gon, TMP Obi-Wan, Bondara... aren't those his only clean victories? I don't see them as anything to brag about overmuch. And victories aren't the best way to evaluate someone. Bane was in hiding for most of his career, he's only even met Jedi on one occasion. Not really a reliable method for comparison. His speed, strength, power and skill are enough for him to take Maul however.

Bane doesn't need plot armor when he has real armor. Just saying his armor has weaknesses doesn't make the advantage any less immense. Those weakpoints are all very hard to hit and having most of his body being protected gives Bane a huge practical advantage over Mauls lack of protection. He can block blows with his body and simply shrug off attacks to get the upper hand, with total abandon to attack Mauls whole body while Maul has to work to target small, easily protected places. He's also basically immune to martial arts strikes, which Maul is very prone to using. The orblalisks also increase his speed, strength, reflexes and force power and gives him rapid regeneration. And Bane isn't exactly lagging behind Maul in skill. He's also a master of multiple forms, probably all of them. He was more than a match for Kas'im, who's skill arguably exceeds Maul's given that he's mastered ever form, utterly perfected his skills with every single one of them and shown enough talent to invent hundreds of thousands of sequences and moves for all of them. And unlike Bane, Maul never completed his training. He's not good enough that he's so much better that he can dominate Bane and target his weak points. Not in skill and not in speed.

You're wrong, the Book of Sith and the other descriptions of the Sith'ari prophecy specifically outlines that the Sith'ari will possess immense, godlike power. Specifically using the phrases "perfect strength", "perfect power" and "a perfect being" who will be "free from limits". Sorzus Syn states that the concept of the Sith'ari expressly relates to strength and directly states that Sith'ari should be considered a god. She also directly compares it to the Jedi's prophecy of the Chosen One. And no, Dooku's descriptive fellatio of Sidious shouldn't be taken seriously just like Traya's shouldn't of Revan. If Sidious is a black hole in the Force the Revan must be the heart of it as well.

Originally posted by McP
Wall, statement that Sidious is the Dark Side is obvious exaggeration. Personally, I consider this "DE Sidious", "Sidious is the Dark Side" and "Sidious' Force Strom > entire Galaxy" as really stupid and exaggerated. We can't assume, that character who we have seen in six movies, two cartoons, a lot of comics and books after even 1999, is far superior to the others from his league, just because there is a comic from '91-'95. That is just stupid. Really stupid. But it's your choice guys.



Originally posted by McP
Anyway, the fact with I agree with, is that ROTS Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history. Before he reached his reached his peak, Plagueis was.

That's a fair and valid viewpoint.

Originally posted by McP
Bane can't even hope, to defeat Sidious. Just as Sidious' hype is exaggerated, Bane's is as well. The fact is, that most of his feats were on DS' nexuses. You can ingore my arguments, that Bane couldn't overpower Zannah with his FL, but it only proves that it wasn't that strong. Zannah herself admited, that she wasn't a saber specialist (which would be necessary to defend against lightning if Sidious' caliber). Sarro, Lsu, Bane, and possibly Kas'Im were her superior. And this is really pathetic, to assume that those group of fighters was comperable to the best duelists of the Clone Wars era, like Sidious, Yoda, Dooku, Windu, Anakin, Obi-Wan and Maul.

That his feats were on nexus' has no baring on Bane's power. It's just an unfortunate motif of the authors.

Or it proves that Zannah is stronger than people think. I don't see Zannah's saber skills as related to her ability to block lightning, I think that's more closely tied into her power. Power needed to contain and direct the lightning or to amp herself up to successfully block it. And I highly doubt Sarro, Lsu or Kas'im were her superior's in saber combat as of DoE. All of them were inferior to Bane and Zannah was much closer to Bane than any other were, based on her fight with him.

And I personally don't see why it'd necessarily be pathetic to compare the best duelists of the Bane era to the Clone Wars era. Other than Yoda and Sidious of course.

Originally posted by McP
Back to FL, you also pointed, that Sidious catched Yoda off guard. That's not true. Yoda was on the edge of platform, and that may be the reason. But he was fully guarded just before Sidious used his FL.
Also, Mace on the screen was able to defend himself against Sidious FL only because Sidious wasn't using his full power. Lucas himself admited, that Sidious was faking. If he would not, Stover's novel is the only alternative answer - Mace would be pushed to his limits, and would be finally overhelmed if Sidious would decided to not stop attacking him.

Bane's lightning is far inferior to Sidious'.

Yoda must have been off-guard or tired or something. In the script he'd previously been able to bend Sidious' lightning back on him no problems. So there should be a factor that explains why he succeeded before but failed afterwards. Admittedly him being tired might be more likely, but even then he did manage to harder job of blocking Sidious' lightning with his hands afterwards so who knows.

I don't see how we can use the novel as evidence over the movies. The movies are the highest canon, the novels are only companion pieces to them. If there's a contradiction like this, the movie version is more accurate. Also just because Sidious was faking having no more power doesn't mean he was faking being unable to overpower Mace.

Kas' im more skilled than Darth Maul? wow. I won't even bother after reading that.

I said arguably. It's not so ridiculous, Kas'im spent decades perfecting the blade in all aspects.

Darth Maul is essentially confirmed to be the greatest Sith Warrior ever up till that point. Having technical mastery is great but that does not reflect natural ability, talent and skill.

Darth Maul is at the least highly proficient in every form, A confirmed master in multiple of them. Stated to be one of the most lethal saberstaff masters ever, which impressed Darth Plagueis. He is essentially unparalleled beyond Sidious himself, whom Bane doesn't begin to compare to.

Kills:

Black Sun(twice).
Qui-Gon Jinn.
Anoon Bondara.
Sun Guard.
Assassin Droids.


Martial victories:
Asajj Ventress.
TCW Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Savage Opress.

Martial Equals:
Darth Vader
Mace Windu

Significant losses:
Darth Sidious (Twice)
TPM Kenobi


That list of opponents is far more impressive than Zannah, Kas'im and Lsu.

@Neph

I coulnd't belive, that you agreed with me in so much points.

Anyway, I'm not using Stover's novel over ROTS movie as an evidence. I just use Stover's nove as "what if?".
Stover's novel is very good book, argubly even better then the movie, with all of this scenes, that were cut off from the movie (delegation 2000 etc).
But it reallu suck as source of evidences on that forum. Each fight in that book is oposite to those in the movie.
Agen and Saesee were killed by surprise in the book, while they were just killed in the movie.
Dooku coudln't compete with Anakin's Djem So, and barely could overpower Kenobi's defense physically at the end. And he was unable to fight them both at once. In the movie he could fight them both at once, and was able to defend himself quite comfortably. He also bested Obi by using the Force (and a moment before he outmaneuvered tem in a saberlock). Anakin was able to defeat Dooku only because his mind was at least a bit clear, and thanks to rage he was able to use much of his power.
Yoda faild to defeat Palpatine, he admited that Palpatine was stronger, and Yoda lost most of his energy while Palpatine lost almost nothing. Effect of that was, that Palpatine was faster and was able to hit Yoda with his FL in the senate's building. in the movie, Yoda was equal to Sidious to the very end (and perhaps even a bit stronger, sice it looks like he was overpowering him in their Force battle at the end).
And Anakin vs Obi-wan's fight in the book.... just suck.

About Zannah vs Bane:
As I remember, there was a quote in the DoE, that says that Zannah acknowledged, that Bane fought better then ever (even better then in RoT). Zannah was stronger then before at that point, so it's save to assume, that DoE Bane > Sarro in a swordsmanship. Technical compression him to the Lsu is still an unknown.
I also think, that Zannah wasn't that good duelist, even at the end of DoE. She was just familiar with his fighting style, which enabled her to fight him quite equally in a duel (like Obi and Ani, its obvious that Anakin was much better then Obi-Wan; the same might be told about Mace and Depa).
I agree, that mastery in using the saber alone, is not enought to defend against a high level of FL. One needs to great kills in the Force and saber, to successfully defend against that.
I really doubt, that Zannah would be able to defend herself against Sidious FL, even for a while.

It's also sad, that all of Bane's feats are from nexuses. But - as I remeber - there is one quote of Drew, when he puts Vader, Bane and Revan in the same league.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Darth Maul is essentially confirmed to be the greatest Sith Warrior ever up till that point.

Hahaha, what? No he isn't. Malgus would take a steamy dump on him, bro. Maul is one of the best warriors up to that point, nothing more.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Having technical mastery is great but that does not reflect natural ability, talent and skill.

Well Kas'im mastered all the lightsaber forms in a few years. Maul mastered, what, 3? In a decade. So it's not as if Maul's natural talent is vastly greater than Kas'im's is. And Kas'im had several decades more than Maul did to hone his talents. It also takes a great degree of natural aptitude, understanding and ability to be able to create sequences and moves for the forms like Kas'im did. For multiple different styles as well btw, single saber, double and dual at least, possibly whips as well.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Darth Maul is at the least highly proficient in every form, A confirmed master in multiple of them. Stated to be one of the most lethal saberstaff masters ever, which impressed Darth Plagueis. He is essentially unparalleled beyond Sidious himself, whom Bane doesn't begin to compare to.

I wasn't aware he was proficient in all of them. Got a quote for that?

I completely fail to see how being a master of multiple forms and being stated (by whom?) to be one of the best saberstaff users makes him unparalleled. That's kind of nonsensical, Maul has been "paralleled" before and there are people lesser than Sidious who are greater than him.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Kills:

Black Sun(twice).
Qui-Gon Jinn.
Anoon Bondara.
Sun Guard.
Assassin Droids.


Martial victories:
Asajj Ventress.
TCW Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Savage Opress.

Martial Equals:
Darth Vader
Mace Windu

Significant losses:
Darth Sidious (Twice)
TPM Kenobi


That list of opponents is far more impressive than Zannah, Kas'im and Lsu.

He didn't beat Ventress and he only beat Savage in a training session, which frankly was inconsistent since he's never replicated that level of dominance over others on Savage's level before or since. And you failed to mention him losing to Kenobi with Savage's help. So in total I don't see how that list eclipses Bane's. The best person he's beaten has been a concussed TCW Kenobi. Big whoop.

This thread.

I know right, a half dozen people saying Bane sucks and loses to Maul and one or two guys arguing otherwise? Total Bane wankfest.

Nah, it's just the misinformation on Maul being spread on both sides.

Oh.

Ok, sure. At least Marco isn't here, right?

Originally posted by McP
@Neph

I coulnd't belive, that you agreed with me in so much points.

Anyway, I'm not using Stover's novel over ROTS movie as an evidence. I just use Stover's nove as "what if?".
Stover's novel is very good book, argubly even better then the movie, with all of this scenes, that were cut off from the movie (delegation 2000 etc).
But it reallu suck as source of evidences on that forum. Each fight in that book is oposite to those in the movie.
Agen and Saesee were killed by surprise in the book, while they were just killed in the movie.
Dooku coudln't compete with Anakin's Djem So, and barely could overpower Kenobi's defense physically at the end. And he was unable to fight them both at once. In the movie he could fight them both at once, and was able to defend himself quite comfortably. He also bested Obi by using the Force (and a moment before he outmaneuvered tem in a saberlock). Anakin was able to defeat Dooku only because his mind was at least a bit clear, and thanks to rage he was able to use much of his power.
Yoda faild to defeat Palpatine, he admited that Palpatine was stronger, and Yoda lost most of his energy while Palpatine lost almost nothing. Effect of that was, that Palpatine was faster and was able to hit Yoda with his FL in the senate's building. in the movie, Yoda was equal to Sidious to the very end (and perhaps even a bit stronger, sice it looks like he was overpowering him in their Force battle at the end).
And Anakin vs Obi-wan's fight in the book.... just suck.

Well brace yourself because I'm about to agree with you entirely yet again! The novel generally is awful as a source for the movie, mostly because it's so much better than it. But yeah, not good as evidence.

Originally posted by McP
About Zannah vs Bane:
As I remember, there was a quote in the DoE, that says that Zannah acknowledged, that Bane fought better then ever (even better then in RoT). Zannah was stronger then before at that point, so it's save to assume, that DoE Bane > Sarro in a swordsmanship. Technical compression him to the Lsu is still an unknown.



Originally posted by McP
I also think, that Zannah wasn't that good duelist, even at the end of DoE. She was just familiar with his fighting style, which enabled her to fight him quite equally in a duel (like Obi and Ani, its obvious that Anakin was much better then Obi-Wan; the same might be told about Mace and Depa).
I agree, that mastery in using the saber alone, is not enought to defend against a high level of FL. One needs to great kills in the Force and saber, to successfully defend against that.
I really doubt, that Zannah would be able to defend herself against Sidious FL, even for a while.

It's also sad, that all of Bane's feats are from nexuses. But - as I remeber - there is one quote of Drew, when he puts Vader, Bane and Revan in the same league.

Well I disagree. Overall maybe she's less than perfect but her defensive abilities are completely top tier. It wasn't just familiarity with Bane's style (that he switches halfway through anyway), but that her defense is nigh impregnable. Her speed, strength and power was also enough to deal with Bane's and I find him to be stellar in all aspects of these.

I also disagree with Zannah not being up to blocking Sidious' lightning. She's powerful enough imo.

Yeah, he did. More or less.

Neph- True.

I think Maul's being underrated and overrated a little, here. The stuff about form knowledge and proficiency is relevant, sure, but either way it's not much of a deciding factor when we're dealing with fighters as elite as Maul. He isn't going to lose to Kas'im just because he knows less forms. Although to that end, achieving mastery in Niman alongside Juyo, Teras Kasi and one other form (likely Ataru), as well as Jar'kai and Saberstaff combat, within Maul's training time frame (and his training was complete), is highly impressive. Niman alone takes at the very least a whole decade to master, according to Drallig, and Juyo can only be mastered after attaining a high-end mastery of several other forms. Maul had all of this accomplished by the time he was 22, so not too shabby at all.

Maul also isn't confirmed as being the most skilled Sith warrior up to his time, that's kind of ridiculous. Mind you, it's not easy finding people to put above him in terms of lightsaber combat, but it's not like it's a confirmed fact that he was better than everyone else up to that point. I also wouldn't say he's quite equal with Windu, but he's not far off. He also didn't defeat Ventress. Him stomping Savage isn't really inconsistent, either, though, Maul's just well suited to dealing with Savage. Both are physically powerful, martial arts-oriented fighters - Maul is just far better trained than Savage, hence why he cranked his wrist and disarmed him so easily. The several-ton strong Jedi-killing legs didn't hurt either.

Anyway.. I would say Maul is more skilled than Bane, and without orbalisks their physical stat difference should be negligible either way. Bane could certainly win with orbalisks though.

As for power, I'm starting to think TPM Maul is a lot more powerful than he's given credit for. For one, he nearly Force screamed a freaking barracks to the ground when he was just 15 (and he was stated as becoming more powerful gradually over time, and felt more powerful than ever after passing his Sith trials). He also has other feats like levitating a "large boulder" several meters without gesturing or looking at it, which, while isn't necessarily overwhelming, shows he has a fair amount of mastery over telekinesis. He just comes off as someone who reserves a lot of his innate power, and he needed to, in order to not reveal his Sith-ness. Then after re-appearing in TCW, where he gets all his best power feats, there are some things to note.

-He lost half of his potential/midichlorians
-On the other hand, he also had 12 years to stew in his hatred which, due to being such an awful ordeal, can cause a surge in power over time

So TPM Maul likely isn't that far off his TCW counterpart, he just uses his power less. So, to that end, Maul should be powerful enough to hold his own against standard Bane even if he has his nexus feats, because then you just have to imagine what Maul could do with nexus-enhanced telekinesis.

I never said Maul would lose to Kas'im, just that arguably he's less skilled than him. I'd say they're at about the same level in raw combat. And like I said, Kas'im mastered more in a shorter amount of time. So, not sure why we should assume he's less talented than Maul is.

Also I wouldn't take that force scream thing as being literal, personally. It's not like Maul hasn't greatly exaggerated his abilities before, like when he thought he could solo the Jedi temple and the council in one of the novels.

Maul said that using stealthy hit and run tactics he could have "killed many" of the council members, which, while ridiculous, isn't the same as him soloing the temple/council like people make out to be what was said. Maul does overestimate himself, but it's not necessarily arrogance, he just wills himself into being as powerful and skilled as possible. He has this inhuman level of confidence that lets him believe he can do virtually anything, but he doesn't take that for granted, but rather uses it to push himself further than other beings.

So yeah, having said that, I don't think the barracks feat is really far-fetched based on the Plagueis quote alone.

Plagueis quote? Maul thinks that in the novel he fights Bondara iirc. Pretty sure it's about him resenting having to be stealthy and that he'd love for him and Sidious to just slaughter the Jedi straight up. There are other reasons not to think it's literal and is hyperbolic, I was just recalling Maul's arrogance as a factor.

In Shadow Hunter I believe it talks about how Sidious would conceal him and Maul's presence so Maul could observe the Jedi and study them, and Maul also muses at one point that he'd consider either Plo Koon or Mace Windu a "true test of his skill".

In Plagueis he criticises the Yinchorri's attack on the temple and claims it would have been more successful had he been leading them, which is why he claimed he could have killed a lot of Jedi by being there. So.. yeah, he didn't say he can waltz into the temple and start offing Council members, he just said that had the temple been under assault, he would have done a better job of assassinating high-priority Jedi than the Yinchorri.

I distinctly remember him thinking of solo'ing the temple or something similar and I've never read the Plagueis novel so that Yinchorri thing is irrelevant.

I won't go on rants as I already have minimal time as it is, I will simply correct A few things on my point:

When I stated he defeated Ventress I refer to the 2 vs 2 where Maul and Opress clearly had them beat.

When I say he is essentially confirmed to be the greatest Sith Warrior I refer to him having skills easily comparable to any dedicated martial Sith and surpassing them. Add to this his numerous statements as one of the best duelists/Sith fighters ever and you have a strong contention for that rank.

And both times when Maul briefly clashed with Ventress in that fight she got the upper hand and kicked him right in the face. But totally not enough to say he beat her because they barely fought.

That's not confirmation or close to it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I distinctly remember him thinking of solo'ing the temple or something similar and I've never read the Plagueis novel so that Yinchorri thing is irrelevant. Erm. Well, just let me know when you have the quote you're referring to...

http://imgur.com/a/mAsAT

The fight was Kenobi & Ventress vs Maul & Opress and the brothers clearly won, Kenobi admits as much.

He is confirmed to be one of the greatest ever and until TCW has better martial combat feats and accolades than all of his contenders. To me that solidifies/confirms his place as the dog.

The idea of Kas'im being anywhere in the same universe to Maul is hilarious

Originally posted by ILS
Then after re-appearing in TCW, where he gets all his best power feats, there are some things to note.

-He lost half of his potential/midichlorians
-On the other hand, he also had 12 years to stew in his hatred which, due to being such an awful ordeal, can cause a surge in power over time

So TPM Maul likely isn't that far off his TCW counterpart, he just uses his power less. So, to that end, Maul should be powerful enough to hold his own against standard Bane even if he has his nexus feats, because then you just have to imagine what Maul could do with nexus-enhanced telekinesis.

Hard to tell. He possibli lost much of his potential, but again - after that he was amped by Talzin's magic. It could restore or even increased his prievous potential.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Well I disagree. Overall maybe she's less than perfect but her defensive abilities are completely top tier. It wasn't just familiarity with Bane's style (that he switches halfway through anyway), but that her defense is nigh impregnable. Her speed, strength and power was also enough to deal with Bane's and I find him to be stellar in all aspects of these.

I also disagree with Zannah not being up to blocking Sidious' lightning. She's powerful enough imo.

Yeah, he did. More or less.

Well, there is a problem, because there is a lot of characters, that are described as near-perfect or even perfect, while they aren't. As I remember, Starkiller for example.
Zannah wasn't tallented in dueling, and she focused herself mostly on a sith magic. I just can't believe, that she was top duelist.

True, but Bane couldn't penetrate her defense other than by using the environment. As you know I think highly of Bane and thus I think highly of Zannah's defense. Her defense is indeed extremely effective in it's mechanics and nigh impenetrable is kind of accurate.

^
I know your opinion about Bane. Well, you read Bane's inability to penetrate Zannah's defense as feat for her. For me, its - unfortunately - bad showing for Bane.

That's kind of not how logic works. It's a feat for Zannah, not an anti-feat for Bane, unless it really does contradict something.

Considering the fact that Bane's offense was driving Kas'im back in POD, and his unpredictability in ROT caught Raskta Lsu off guard, both of whom had dedicated their lives to mastering the lightsaber, and both of whom were respected as the greatest duelists in their respective orders, and considering the fact that after mastering all seven Forms, Kas'im spent decades perfecting every single move and sequence of the seven forms, and in Raskta's duel with Bane, she had battle meditation...

yeah, I'd say defending against Bane's onslaught in DOE is a pretty damn good defensive feat for Zannah, rather than any kind of detraction from Bane.

I'm loling @ Banes unpredictability wank, Raskta posed no challenge and Bane was amped 2x and nearly entirely invulnerable to any of her attacks. It wasn't his 00b3r unpredictability that got Raskta it's the fact he was protected/amped like a druggie. Kas'im's incompetence and need to cheat prove he is a trash tier duelist, the lowest duelist from the PT era would humiliate Kas'im in a duel.

Yeah, it kinda was Bane's unpredictability that allowed him to throw her to the floor with an elbow strike. He caught her off guard with his unpredictability in that duel, and in DOE, he had only become far more unpredictable, retooling his fighting style around it.

You mean just like how Maul cheated against Siolo?

For the record, when Bane was at a point in his dueling career in POD where he admitted he wouldn't stand a chance against Kas'im wielding a saberstaff, Bane still managed to solo a pack of twelve Tuk'ata with onlt his lightsaber skills without a scratch. A year before AOTC however, Anakin on the other hand, struggled with one singular Tuk'ata, suffering an arm injury before he was able to subdue it. As a group, Anakin, Obi-wan, Ferus (who was considered a better duelist than Anakin at this point), Siri Tachi, two other padawans, Jedi Master Soara Antana (who was noted to be a better duelist than anybody else in that group), and one other Jedi Master collectively had difficulty with a pack of ten Tuk'ata.

So the idea that Bane, Kas'im, and Zannah are somehow fodder duelists when compared with any of the PT era duelists is one that is completely unfounded.

Bane's "unpredictability" didn't stop him from getting slashed several times, though, which is the point that carthage made. That being said, I'm not entirely sure why that's even relevant here.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yeah, it kinda was Bane's unpredictability that allowed him to throw her to the floor with an elbow strike. He caught her off guard with his unpredictability in that duel, and in DOE, he had only become far more unpredictable, retooling his fighting style around it.

This is stupid as hell. Countless character win by being "unpredictable" and catching their opponent off guard...

In DMBs language simple throws and changing lightsaber forms and random slashes means you are 00ber and a great tactician. I'm also loling at using TCW as an example, yeah, the show where politicians can beat up Anakin and pirates can capture Dooku. DMB also conveniently left out that another Tukata pack almost killed Bane, and that Bane got beaten up by mercenaries in spite of knowing something was wrong in the mansion. Nice calling on low showings though . Tell me when Bane can beat guys like Jinn, Kenobi, fight evenly with Mace Windu, and kill Black sun vigos/gang members/Vong/Wampas with his bare hands.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Kills:

Black Sun(twice).
Qui-Gon Jinn.
Anoon Bondara.
Sun Guard.
Assassin Droids.


Martial victories:
Asajj Ventress.
TCW Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Savage Opress.

Martial Equals:
Darth Vader
Mace Windu

Significant losses:
Darth Sidious (Twice)
TPM Kenobi


That list of opponents is far more impressive than Zannah, Kas'im and Lsu.

Maul has MUCH more screen-time* than Bane in canon and in the EU, so it shouldn't be a surprise that he has more feats. That should not distort one's perception of how powerful non-PT characters are.

Do you really believe that Bane would be unable to replicate the victories that you've listed here?

Also, Maul is not Windu's equal. Asajj and Depa put up good fights against Mace, but that doesn't mean they are on the same tier as him.

*I'm using screen-time to mean his number of appearances in movies, cartoons, novels, comics, video games, and other media.

I recall Bane had some problems on Dxun with the wildlife, but that was because he was effected by the Thought Bomb and was being hounded by Kaan and Qordis' ghosts or something.

I'm not quite sure what Carthage means by "the other Tuk'ata pack that almost killed Bane." The only other Tuk'ata pack that Bane fought was a pack of six that he basically one-shotted with the Force.

And I didn't use TCW as an example. There were no Tuk'ata in TCW.

Hmmmmm

Some nice round-up of feats for Maul

Atm I'm leaning towards Bane losing to him.

Shocker.