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Pure physical fight only

Who wins

Going just off those stips, Namor.
Checking several bios, he's averagely a 1 tonner who can amp himself to class 60.

Thats assuming using his energy manip is allowed for him to amp.
Otherwise he's going in with a huge power gap, this being purely physical.
Energy manip is also what he uses to create his Master Blow....

Even allowing for those two "cheats", i give Namor the win. Namor's taken shots from a weakened version of the In Betweener, the Hulk, Hercules...tanking BBs best shot is something he can do, and BB is then weakened for a time to boot.

black bolt has beaten hulk in h2h. he's def a cl100 guy with a ridiculous record. bb rarely loses. he also has the classic if not used in a long while, master strike. this would be a brutal fight, but i think i'd actually take bolt here 6/10.

Not disputing, but asking...beaten Hulk in a pure h2h fight like the OP describes?
BB may fight class 100s, but that doesnt make him (or Wolverine, who does the same for example) one.
Doesnt mean his fighting outside his weight class should be overlooked but, without his main powers, he's not winning this.

He hasn't beaten Hulk in h2h but his master blow did stun him. It has been stated on numerous of occasions that BB doesn't stand a chance physically against the Hulk. Namor does well against him though,in the past, so i'm giving this to him. They've already fought and it was pretty even...

http://s401.photobucket.com/user/clokeagne_supernova/media/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/FantasticFour402a.jpg.html
http://s401.photobucket.com/user/clokeagne_supernova/media/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/FantasticFour402b.jpg.html
http://s401.photobucket.com/user/clokeagne_supernova/media/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/FantasticFour402c.jpg.html
http://s401.photobucket.com/user/clokeagne_supernova/media/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/FantasticFour402d.jpg.html
http://s401.photobucket.com/user/clokeagne_supernova/media/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/FantasticFour402e.jpg.html

Cool...thanks for the scans.

he has flat out beaten/ko'd hulk but that was with his voice, true, but he has MORE than his own against hulk and their strengths have been stated as being very close. he likely has a durability edge on namor as well. speed is about even. it's a close fight but i'll take bolt still.

Without energy Black Bolt can't keep that up long enough to beat Namor I think.

He could fight him, but I can't imagine any scenarios where Black Bolt wins with nothing but his fists.

really? hmm, methinks bolt is being a little underestimated. if i get time i'll post some stuff. smurph knows bolt really well too, so he might be someone whose opinion could be helpful and he might have some specific feats as well to support the idea that this is very close.

Namor would win on average.

Originally posted by leonidas
really? hmm, methinks bolt is being a little underestimated. if i get time i'll post some stuff. smurph knows bolt really well too, so he might be someone whose opinion could be helpful and he might have some specific feats as well to support the idea that this is very close.

I'm familiar with all of black bolt's fights

I'll give the win to BB. He and Namor are both very physically close, but it seems to me that Boltagon is more skilled in h2h than namor.

Originally posted by krisblaze
I'm familiar with all of black bolt's fights

were that true you would not have picked namor. therefore you you are lying or you are a dolt. or maybe just norwegian. sneer

Without masterblow namor 8/10
With masterblow BB 10/10

Black Bolt withstood several hits from Thanos so Namor isn't dominating him.

Not seeing a BB win.
I see a lot of strong opinions, and thats fine, but i'll stick to mine, based on what i looked up.

Originally posted by riv6672
Not seeing a BB win.
I see a lot of strong opinions, and thats fine, but i'll stick to mine, based on what i looked up. didnt you once admit you flat out dislike BB?

BB already one shotted Namor and stalemated him when Namor was severely pissed off and Black Bolt's stamina was written like crap. Even then he was about to master blow Namor out.

If its just H2H, I would take Namor after a grueling fight.

Namor 6/10

Originally posted by Insane Titan
didnt you once admit you flat out dislike BB?
I hate the guy.
I can still call a fight honestly, unlike 70% of the posters here. I wouldnt back one of my favorite characters, Cage, against BB, just because i prefer him.
The fact that i looked up BBs stats to make an informed choice instead of giving you a standard

Should speak for itself. But probably wont.

Originally posted by riv6672
I hate the guy.
I can still call a fight honestly, unlike 70% of the posters here. I wouldnt back one of my favorite characters, Cage, against BB, just because i prefer him.
The fact that i looked up BBs stats to make an informed choice instead of giving you a standard

Should speak for itself. But probably wont. fair enough, but judging just by his stats isn't accurate enough when you look at his showings as well.

Originally posted by riv6672
Going just off those stips, Namor.
Checking several bios, he's averagely a 1 tonner who can amp himself to class 60.

Thats assuming using his energy manip is allowed for him to amp.
Otherwise he's going in with a huge power gap, this being purely physical.
Energy manip is also what he uses to create his Master Blow....

Even allowing for those two "cheats", i give Namor the win. Namor's taken shots from a weakened version of the In Betweener, the Hulk, Hercules...tanking BBs best shot is something he can do, and BB is then weakened for a time to boot.

I've seen enough that, when amping, I'd say he's higher than class 60.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
fair enough, but judging just by his stats isn't accurate enough when you look at his showings as well.
True.
I'm better at researching the former. I've changed my mind before due to evidence of the latter.
Both have to be looked at though, since both can be skewed by un/intentional bias.

Not looking to derail your thread with my bs though. Good fight, either way.

hmm, i'd love to see some in-comic proof that he is 'amping' in any of his h2h fights. bb has tanked a blow from the the hulk and ko'd him (karnak told him where to strike but it was stated that bb was NEARLY as strong as hulk...) he has also ko'd him easily with a voice blast. bb has also had an advantage on gladiator in h2h combat on 2 occasions and stalemated him in a brief battle on another and he's even battled and gotten the better of the sphinx h2h who is easily a high cl100.

to think he is merely a cl60 guy--amped--is....ridiculous. again, anytime someone wants to SHOW him amping (bios are useless and inadmissible in these things as evidence) in a book somehow, feel free. as for cl60? lol cl60's don't EASILY hang with hulk, gladiator and even thor and ikaris in h2h combat REGULARLY. his record speaks for itself. try finding anyone who has definitively defeated him in battle NOT named thanos. the list is extremely short.....

i know namor very well, enough to know this would be a very tough fight, but bolt just....rarely loses, so i'll still take him for a majority in h2h. 6/10 is fair imo. using all powers, namor likely wouldn't win 1/10.

Black bolt has 2 losses on his record if im not mistaken. One to Thor and the other to Thanos. He was matching Thor physically pretty well too. A higher endnNamor can also, but I think Bolt edges him out 6/10

namor recently just took a full blown scream from bb and recovered in a panel or two(bp noted it would take a sec),fists from bb arent doing much.

hmm, if that was in the most recent avengers i've not read it but find it suspect at best, pis at worst. the history of that scream would dictate namor should be ko'd. add to the fact bb has already been even with namor in h2h and it makes no sense whatsoever to claim fists aren't going to do anything. will check out the new avengers stuff shortly, but even assuming you're correct for a moment does not in anyway, make the previous years and years worth of evidence null and void.

"Hulk is about to crush the life out of Black Bolt".

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media-full/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsBlackBolt02.jpg.html

"There's no question as to who is the stronger of the two". It did state that be is close second, whatever that means.

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media-full/Hulk%20Fights%20F-M/HulkvsInhumans03.jpg.html


A single hit makes BB body go limp.

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media-full/Hulk%20Fights%20F-M/HulkvsInhumans04.jpg.html

This doesn't happen to Namor when he faces the Hulk which is one of the reasons I give Namor the majority.

BB had the advantage over Gladiator physically

Originally posted by carver9
"Hulk is about to crush the life out of Black Bolt".

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media-full/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsBlackBolt02.jpg.html

"There's no question as to who is the stronger of the two". It did state that be is close second, whatever that means.

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media-full/Hulk%20Fights%20F-M/HulkvsInhumans03.jpg.html


A single hit makes BB body go limp.

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media-full/Hulk%20Fights%20F-M/HulkvsInhumans04.jpg.html

This doesn't happen to Namor when he faces the Hulk which is one of the reasons I give Namor the majority.
Already gave my opinion, but wanted to say thanks for the provided scans....

bb goes limp? hmmm.... here he utterly tanks a hit, so pick and choose i guess:

http://fdzeta.com/subir/images/aNPEv.jpg

you also showed 2 fights where bb actually DEFEATED hulk via ko, and a clear scan that stated their strengths were extremely close (which is what that was intended to mean of course.....)

so, while namor has a win underwater over hulk, bb has 2 decisive wins. i seriously doubt namor would do as well vs gladiator though. if someone wants to say split, or namor 6/10, i can sort of get that. but anyone thinking namor wins a clear majority is simply wrong.

Originally posted by carver9
"Hulk is about to crush the life out of Black Bolt".

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media-full/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsBlackBolt02.jpg.html

"There's no question as to who is the stronger of the two". It did state that be is close second, whatever that means.

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media-full/Hulk%20Fights%20F-M/HulkvsInhumans03.jpg.html


A single hit makes BB body go limp.

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media-full/Hulk%20Fights%20F-M/HulkvsInhumans04.jpg.html

This doesn't happen to Namor when he faces the Hulk which is one of the reasons I give Namor the majority.

Quit trolling he's never lost to hulk. Move on

Originally posted by leonidas
bb goes limp? hmmm.... here he utterly tanks a hit, so pick and choose i guess:

http://fdzeta.com/subir/images/aNPEv.jpg

you also showed 2 fights where bb actually DEFEATED hulk via ko, and a clear scan that stated their strengths were extremely close (which is what that was intended to mean of course.....)

so, while namor has a win underwater over hulk, bb has 2 decisive wins. i seriously doubt namor would do as well vs gladiator though. if someone wants to say split, or namor 6/10, i can sort of get that. but anyone thinking namor wins a clear majority is simply wrong.

The first fight, BB screamed and koed the both of them. The second fight, BB lifts Hulk in the air which attracts elemental forces that takes the Hulk down. He didn't physically take him out.

Yeah. OP. Read the Op.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Quit trolling he's never lost to hulk. Move on

Somebody body going limp is a victory. Get over it and move on.

So when Havok stopped Hulk in his tracks, Havok ultimately lost because of how the fight ended...

How did the BB/Hulk fight end?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So when Havok stopped Hulk in his tracks, Havok ultimately lost because of how the fight ended...

How did the BB/Hulk fight end?

Don't get it but the answer to your last question is, BB gains his composure, he lifts Hulk up in the air with a blast out of his atenna and nature stuns Hulk. Here is the next scan.

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media-full/Hulk%20Fights%20F-M/HulkvsInhumans05.jpg.html

Originally posted by carver9
The first fight, BB screamed and koed the both of them. The second fight, BB lifts Hulk in the air which attracts elemental forces that takes the Hulk down. He didn't physically take him out.

wut? bb wasn't ko'd by his scream--at all. that....doesn't even make sense. the other fight bb PUNCHED hulk out....

you show bb going limp, i show bb tanking a shot. bb has 2 clear and definitive wins over hulk, namor has one, underwater. one voice=one underwater, so....yeah. if this were underwater i'd give namor a clear advantage too in h2h.....if you think namor edges him out, i have no issue. i do take issue with misrepresentation (cl60 and amps with energy for fights....) and use of bios as a basis for a decision. looking at track records, there is simply no logical way NOT to view this as enormously close. out of water, i'll give bb the edge though. his win/loss record is definitely one of the tops in marvel comics.

Originally posted by carver9
Somebody body going limp is a victory. Get over it and move on.

Naw not when hulk ended up on his ass anyway

Originally posted by leonidas
wut? bb wasn't ko'd by his scream--at all. that....doesn't even make sense. the other fight bb PUNCHED hulk out....

you show bb going limp, i show bb tanking a shot. bb has 2 clear and definitive wins over hulk, namor has one, underwater. one voice=one underwater, so....yeah. if this were underwater i'd give namor a clear advantage too in h2h.....if you think namor edges him out, i have no issue. i do take issue with misrepresentation (cl60 and amps with energy for fights....) and use of bios as a basis for a decision. looking at track records, there is simply no logical way NOT to view this as enormously close. out of water, i'll give bb the edge though. his win/loss record is definitely one of the tops in marvel comics.

Don't think you've seen all of the fights. BB use his voice on the Hulk to the point it koes him.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsBlackBolt07.jpg
http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media-full/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsBlackBolt08.jpg.html

Crazy thing is Hulk tanked it, the only reason he fell was due to the ringing in his ears.

Never said BB couldn't withstand a punch from Hulk, I just don't think he can handle too many of them. I don't think any herald would one shot him.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Naw not when hulk ended up on his ass anyway



He sure did but it wasn't BB power that did it. Read the scan.

I dont read scans, i read actual whole complete comics so I'll pass. What are you saying? Are u implying thay black bolt didn't beat hulk straight up?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I dont read scans, i read actual whole complete comics so I'll pass. What are you saying? Are u implying thay black bolt didn't beat hulk straight up?

What did you get from the fight? What I got was, Hulk was lifted in the air and as stated in the scan, BB wouldn't be able to hold him up there for long. Then, it states that he doesn't have to because nature stunned Hulk. Did you see anything different?

Other fight, BB screams and it takes him out. Hulk is still standing but the ringing in his ears drops him. Double ko. Third fight, no winner, both becomes friends in the end.

Originally posted by carver9
Don't think you've seen all of the fights. BB use his voice on the Hulk to the point it koes him.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsBlackBolt07.jpg
http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media-full/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsBlackBolt08.jpg.html

Crazy thing is Hulk tanked it, the only reason he fell was due to the ringing in his ears.

Never said BB couldn't withstand a punch from Hulk, I just don't think he can handle too many of them. I don't think any herald would one shot him.

um, carv, that didn't ko bb. it weakened him obviously (he has never been that weakened from a voice before that i recall, but whatever) but he was NOT ko'd. nearly expended? sure, but who cares because hulk, otoh, WAS ko'd by it. not sure how you can say he tanked it when it was clearly what ko'd him in the end..... unless you think the ringing in his ears was what, a mosquito...?

that makes 3 times bb has ko'd hulk. pretty definitive record no matter how you look at it.

You see that little "*" looking thing at the end where Hulk falls? That means K.O. good mister Carver.

in case anyone is counting:

(1) http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media-full/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsBlackBolt08.jpg.html

(2) http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125504/4181559-black+bolt+beats+hulk

(3) http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125504/4181540-black+bolt+vs+hulk+1


(4) http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111111271/2972634-vhulk37dh.jpg

the above is a win since you seem to count going limp as a victory....

Originally posted by leonidas
in case anyone is counting:

(1) http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media-full/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsBlackBolt08.jpg.html

(2) http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125504/4181559-black+bolt+beats+hulk

(3) http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125504/4181540-black+bolt+vs+hulk+1


(4) http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111111271/2972634-vhulk37dh.jpg

the above is a win since you seem to count going limp as a victory....

The third one isn't a ko. The second one did drop Hulk. The one where BB punch him with the Master blow, Hulk was ok afterwards as shown here.

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media-full/Hulk%20Fights%20F-M/HulkvsInhumans03.jpg.html
http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media-full/Hulk%20Fights%20F-M/HulkvsInhumans04.jpg.html

The other time Hulk was stunned, BB didn't do it, nature did. Black Bolt was obviously out during that scream...he was helpless but Hulk didnt drop. This doesn't help your argument since BB does poorly against Hulk physically.

Originally posted by Damborgson
You see that little "*" looking thing at the end where Hulk falls? That means K.O. good mister Carver.

I agree. He was koed.

Originally posted by carver9
The third one isn't a ko.

i was trying to find the remaining scan.



it was bb who SUMMONED the lightning but reversing the polarity. of course he gets credit for the win. if storm summoned lightning, would you say nature did it?? or when thor does, is it nature?? by reversing polarity, bb knew exactly what was going to happen.





bb was still on his knees, weak, but conscious. hulk took a step to finish him and was ko'd. so, you're right in the sense that the exact opposite of what you said was true.



lol have you actually SEEN any of the fights?? he does VERY well. tanking shots, being explicitly stated to be extremely close to hulk's strength....sure hulk is stronger, but bb does just fine. but it's not JUST hulk we look at, and bb's record is second to absolutely no one.

so, 3 wins if we count going limp as a win--which is YOUR definition, btw, not mine. and there are the gladiator battles, the sphinx battle and even the ikaris battle that all support the idea that bb is absolutely cl100 and clearly in namor's class. at least.

I don't get why Carver keeps saying "BB screamed at him" and no one is correcting him. The page literally says the slightest of whispers. Carver can't read.

I also like how he aggressively started defending Hulk because someone said BB did good against him... which he did.

Carver is stupid.

I dont understand why this is such a big deal.
H2h fight. No other powers.

Actually, i DO understand, and its frikkin' hilarious.

http://s55.photobucket.com/user/SpunkySmurph/media/Marvel/StrengthNamor.jpg.html

Black Bolt one-shots Namor into a hydroelectric damn.

EDIT: And, if memory serves, in this fight his electron powers were screwy and he couldn't amp. Might be worth fact-checking that though, it's been a little while since I've read the whole issue.

Namor came back two pages later. There was no indication that he was koed. Under the same writer both were damn near equal in h2h.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Namor came back two pages later. There was no indication that he was koed. Under the same writer both were damn near equal in h2h. I was JUST about to come back and post that you pointed out that Namor came back later that fight.

Right, well, impressive nonetheless. I think they've both improved since then too by quite a bit.

Yeah, it's pretty impressive.

The thing is Namor fluctuates too much. Sometimes he gets his crap kicked out by shulkie and sometimes he takes a point blank scream from bolt and just gets stunned for a few moments.

Looking it over again, I'd say it's pretty highly open to interpretation - Namor IS seen in the issue again, but only after Black Bolt is "KO'd" (he's faking it), and he returns with the caption

"One by one the monsters gather -- gloating and revelling in the prince's capture"

http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/abhilegend/media/Marvel/FantasticFourv141117.jpg.html

Which implies some passage of time. Namor was, at least, hit hard enough that he was removed from the fight, however temporarily. Given that he was shot into water - which, in the past, has been a strong enough boost to instantly recover him from a Wolverine claw attack (iirc) - makes it, as we've both agreed, a pretty impressive showing.

^Comics.. Though I do think he has a pretty consistent enough portrayal.

Originally posted by leonidas
in case anyone is counting:

(1) http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media-full/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsBlackBolt08.jpg.html

(2) http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125504/4181559-black+bolt+beats+hulk

(3) http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125504/4181540-black+bolt+vs+hulk+1


(4) http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111111271/2972634-vhulk37dh.jpg

the above is a win since you seem to count going limp as a victory....

(5)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/thorion/blackbolt/fallhulk2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/thorion/blackbolt/fallhulk3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/thorion/blackbolt/fallhulk4.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, it's pretty impressive.

The thing is Namor fluctuates too much. Sometimes he gets his crap kicked out by shulkie and sometimes he takes a point blank scream from bolt and just gets stunned for a few moments. That scream was dumb. Especially when Hickman had half power BB ko Namor with a whisper.

It seemed he forgot what Namor got hit with in the next issue.

Originally posted by Existere
Looking it over again, I'd say it's pretty highly open to interpretation - Namor IS seen in the issue again, but only after Black Bolt is "KO'd" (he's faking it), and he returns with the caption

"One by one the monsters gather -- gloating and revelling in the prince's capture"

http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/abhilegend/media/Marvel/FantasticFourv141117.jpg.html

Which implies some passage of time. Namor was, at least, hit hard enough that he was removed from the fight, however temporarily. Given that he was shot into water - which, in the past, has been a strong enough boost to instantly recover him from a Wolverine claw attack (iirc) - makes it, as we've both agreed, a pretty impressive showing.
I know. But what throws it in doubt is that Ben was taking the same punches from bolt without any problem.

And the fact that just ten issues ago namor stalemated a full powered bolt.

What did Namor get hit with?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
That scream was dumb. Especially when Hickman had half power BB ko Namor with a whisper.

It seemed he forgot what Namor got hit with in the next issue.
Hickman is like bendis in that regard. He will write power levels as it suits him. That's why a scream can bloody Thanos but not namor.

Or a celestial can tank attacks from IG but not from galactus.

Originally posted by ares834
What did Namor get hit with?
Black bolt screamed in his face. He was stunned for a few moments.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Black bolt screamed in his face. He was stunned for a few moments.
Well then again he wasn't trying to kill Namor. Remember Panther wanted him coherent enough so that he knows what just happened to him. While the Thanos one we know for damn sure Bolt was trying to end him right then and there.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hickman is like bendis in that regard. He will write power levels as it suits him. That's why a scream can bloody Thanos but not namor.

Or a celestial can tank attacks from IG but not from galactus. Let's not go overboard here. Bendis.

And none of your examples work either.

Namor was still wrecked by the scream. And like 4 Celestials got killed by one IG shot.

It's just like Hickman really wanted to make Namor seem dead and then he went back and wrote the next issue a while later. Or scream was mixed with whisper somewhere along the line. Still though it happened. Wouldn't happen again.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Well then again he wasn't trying to kill Namor. Remember Panther wanted him coherent enough so that he knows what just happened to him. While the Thanos one we know for damn sure Bolt was trying to end him right then and there.
I don't see how that can be taken into account. If bolt didn't want to kill namor, why did he scream at all? If it was to throw him off the ship, it would've done by a whisper too.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't see how that can be taken into account. If bolt didn't want to kill namor, why did he scream at all? If it was to throw him off the ship, it would've done by a whisper too.
I guess you didn't read the comic.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Let's not go overboard here. Bendis.

And none of your examples work either.

Namor was still wrecked by the scream. And like 4 Celestials got killed by one IG shot.

It's just like Hickman really wanted to make Namor seem dead and then he went back and wrote the next issue a while later. Or scream was mixed with whisper somewhere along the line. Still though it happened. Wouldn't happen again.
Yeah, comparison to bendis is a little too much. But still.

Didn't mad celestials took blasts from UN and IG?

And namor was at best koed for a few moments. It was again showed as a scream in the next issue though.


Http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/22148926/Avengers_2012-_041-015.jpg.html

So I don't see how he forgot it.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I guess you didn't read the comic.
Don't patronize me celey.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Black bolt screamed in his face. He was stunned for a few moments.

Oh, that.

I thought Bran was referring to the planet blowing up and was going to point out that Namor didn't actually take the full impact.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, comparison to bendis is a little too much. But still.

Didn't mad celestials took blasts from UN and IG?

And namor was at best koed for a few moments. It was again showed as a scream in the next issue though.


Http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/22148926/Avengers_2012-_041-015.jpg.html

So I don't see how he forgot it. UN, not IG.

Still a fight ender. Though contradictory sure. But you're essentially making the case that him only being KO'ed lowers or highers ones powers. If he gets KO'ed by two varying attacks, should he be ko'ed MORE by the more powerful ones in comics? Death is a viable question but then again you can't exactly have Namor get killed by any such attack when he has a lot of shit to ruin in the future.

So yeah. It didn't make sense, but it's really the best that can happen outside whispers I guess. Still think something got mixed along the way though. Oh well. The way to solve this is to have each Namor and BB beat the shit out of Hulk somewhere down the line... naturally.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Don't patronize me celey.
No. I was serious when I said you didn't read the comic because not one person who read it would agree to what you said. Bolt did not try to kill Namor. It was all calculated by Panther. Bolt's attack was to incapacitate Namor long enough so that he would realize who planned it all and not be able to recover in time for the coup de grace.

Not all quasi-sonic attacks from Bolt are the same level.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
UN, not IG.

Still a fight ender. Though contradictory sure. But you're essentially making the case that him only being KO'ed lowers or highers ones powers. If he gets KO'ed by two varying attacks, should he be ko'ed MORE by the more powerful ones in comics? Death is a viable question but then again you can't exactly have Namor get killed by any such attack when he has a lot of shit to ruin in the future.

So yeah. It didn't make sense, but it's really the best that can happen outside whispers I guess. Still think something got mixed along the way though. Oh well. The way to solve this is to have each Namor and BB beat the shit out of Hulk somewhere down the line... naturally.
At, OK.

But it's incredibly contradicting that Namor was koed for only the moments Cabal took to approach him from maybe 100 feet.

It's always OK for someone to beat the shit out of Hulk, I agree with that.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
No. I was serious when I said you didn't read the comic because not one person who read it would agree to what you said. Bolt did not try to kill Namor. It was all calculated by Panther. Bolt's attack was to incapacitate Namor long enough so that he would realize who planned it all and not be able to recover in time for the coup de grace.

Not all quasi-sonic attacks from Bolt are the same level. While varying scream levels is an actual thing, any scream is still more than the whisper needed to take Namor out. I think the overkill factor to only shortly put Namor out is the biggest issue here. Everyone even me is attuned to the hardest hit causing coma level ko's in comics.

You'd have to actually use real world logic to make sense of that, in that not every hit causes a coma KO even the hardest one. Seconds most of the time. Life worrying if it's minutes. Speaking of the real world, comics need seizure kos.

Still though. High as **** showing for Namor. I wonder how Hickman would write Glads vs Namor. Carver ending I'd hope.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
No. I was serious when I said you didn't read the comic because not one person who read it would agree to what you said. Bolt did not try to kill Namor. It was all calculated by Panther. Bolt's attack was to incapacitate Namor long enough so that he would realize who planned it all and not be able to recover in time for the coup de grace.

Not all quasi-sonic attacks from Bolt are the same level.
Like I said. Originally posted by abhilegend
Don't patronize me celey.
That's just one interpretation of the scene and nowhere was it stated that Bolt was holding back. Him screaming and holding back are contradictory by nature. And I never said they are of the same level.

So stop patronizing already.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
While varying scream levels is an actual thing, any scream is still more than the whisper needed to take Namor out. I think the overkill factor to only shortly put Namor out is the biggest issue here. Everyone even me is attuned to the hardest hit causing coma level ko's in comics.

You'd have to actually use real world logic to make sense of that, in that not every hit causes a coma KO even the hardest one. Seconds most of the time. Life worrying if it's minutes. Speaking of the real world, comics need seizure kos.

Still though. High as **** showing for Namor. I wonder how Hickman would write Glads vs Namor. Carver ending I'd hope.
Hickman is writing Namor vs Gladiator?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hickman is writing Namor vs Gladiator? No but I hope he does. He seems to have a hard on for Namor and BB. If it were to happen it'd be a good one even though Hickman sucks at writing drawn out fights.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
No but I hope he does. He seems to have a hard on for Namor and BB. If it were to happen it'd be a good one even though Hickman sucks at writing drawn out fights.
Namor would beat the shit out of Kallark in such a fight.

Hickman has a very high opinion of Namor.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
While varying scream levels is an actual thing, any scream is still more than the whisper needed to take Namor out. I think the overkill factor to only shortly put Namor out is the biggest issue here. Everyone even me is attuned to the hardest hit causing coma level ko's in comics.

You'd have to actually use real world logic to make sense of that, in that not every hit causes a coma KO even the hardest one. Seconds most of the time. Life worrying if it's minutes. Speaking of the real world, comics need seizure kos.

Still though. High as **** showing for Namor. I wonder how Hickman would write Glads vs Namor. Carver ending I'd hope.
I agree about the overkill factor and it was a great feat for fishbreath. I just took the weight of the context much more than the graphic portrayal.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Like I said.
That's just one interpretation of the scene and nowhere was it stated that Bolt was holding back. Him screaming and holding back are contradictory by nature. And I never said they are of the same level.

So stop patronizing already.
Well we do know he wasn't trying to kill him. He reserved that right to T'Challa.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Namor would beat the shit out of Kallark in such a fight.

Hickman has a very high opinion of Namor. I want this fight more than anything in comics now.

Drawn by Romita with a full comic dedicated to it.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I agree about the overkill factor and it was a great feat for fishbreath. I just took the weight of the context much more than the graphic portrayal. Very well.

I'm just trying to make sense of it myself and the best answer without screaming pis would be that not every KO is a coma. Oh well though. Has no bearing here.

What I'm really confused about though is what the **** was the point of BP stabbing him? How does that mark anything in a cone attack?

Answer this

Originally posted by abhilegend
The thing is Namor fluctuates too much. Sometimes he gets his crap kicked out by shulkie and sometimes he takes a point blank scream from bolt and just gets stunned for a few moments. Black Bolt fluctuates too - but mostly the power of his voice. His fist fights are pretty consistent over the course of his career, and include a series of very high showings.

I think Namor could beat Black Bolt in a fist fight on a good day. I think Black Bolt could beat Namor on an average day.

Originally posted by Existere
Black Bolt fluctuates too - but mostly the power of his voice. His fist fights are pretty consistent over the course of his career, and include a series of very high showings.

I think Namor could beat Black Bolt in a fist fight on a good day. I think Black Bolt could beat Namor on an average day.
Namor has better highs than black bolt. That's damn sure.

And I'd back up namor on average.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I want this fight more than anything in comics now.

Drawn by Romita with a full comic dedicated to it.

Very well.

I'm just trying to make sense of it myself and the best answer without screaming pis would be that not every KO is a coma. Oh well though. Has no bearing here.

What I'm really confused about though is what the **** was the point of BP stabbing him? How does that mark anything in a cone attack?

Answer this
It was a promise he made to Shuri.. Something about he was going to put it where it belonged. The knife was like some heirloom and meant to be symbolic.

Oh and check this scan from Abhi. Talk about varying levels of scream.. Phukkin comics.
http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/abhilegend/media/Marvel/FantasticFourv141117.jpg.html

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I want this fight more than anything in comics now.

Drawn by Romita with a full comic dedicated to it.

Very well.

I'm just trying to make sense of it myself and the best answer without screaming pis would be that not every KO is a coma. Oh well though. Has no bearing here.

What I'm really confused about though is what the **** was the point of BP stabbing him? How does that mark anything in a cone attack?

Answer this
Carver would jump from a bridge half way through the comic. Rest of CBR would follow soon.

I bow to your brilliance good sir.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
It was a promise he made to Shuri.. Something about he was going to out it where it belonged. The knife was like some heirloom and meant to be symbolic.

Oh and check this scan from Abhi. Talk about varying levels of scream.. Phukkin comics.
http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/abhilegend/media/Marvel/FantasticFourv141117.jpg.html

Originally posted by abhilegend
Carver would jump from a bridge half way through the comic. Rest of CBR would follow soon.

I bow to your brilliance good sir. Carver meltdowns are my favorite kind of meltdowns. Until they become really annoying and depressing.

I wonder if we can get a petition for a one shot going?Originally posted by celeyhyga17
It was a promise he made to Shuri.. Something about he was going to put it where it belonged. The knife was like some heirloom and meant to be symbolic.

Oh and check this scan from Abhi. Talk about varying levels of scream.. Phukkin comics.
http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/abhilegend/media/Marvel/FantasticFourv141117.jpg.html Right. Forgot about that. Still seems pretty pointless though. He's going to feel like a fool when he finds out Namor is alive.

Black Bolt's voice was the wind in that comic.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Namor has better highs than black bolt. That's damn sure.

And I'd back up namor on average. Well, I disagree I guess.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You're really surprised to see your own scan, lol.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Carver meltdowns are my favorite kind of meltdowns. Until they become really annoying and depressing.

I wonder if we can get a petition for a one shot going? Right. Forgot about that. Still seems pretty pointless though. He's going to feel like a fool when he finds out Namor is alive.

Black Bolt's voice was the wind in that comic.
We should petition.

Nothing compared to "garlic breath" against Apocalypse though.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_medium/3/35951/3773547-apocpowers4.png

Originally posted by Existere
Well, I disagree I guess.

You're really surprised to see your own scan, lol.
OK, but you're wrong smurph.

uhuh

And I wasn't surprised, just confused to what he was playing at.

Originally posted by abhilegend
OK, but you're wrong smurph.

uhuh

And I wasn't surprised, just confused to what he was playing at. Ah yeah.

I think Blackbolt's electron powers were screwy in that issue? But that shouldn't effect his voice, in theory, so whatever.

I've always argued that was breathing. Because I don't see what else it could be.

Originally posted by Existere
Ah yeah.

I think Blackbolt's electron powers were screwy in that issue? But that shouldn't effect his voice, in theory, so whatever.
Good.

It's comics. I'd think a bloodlusted bolt can do more than push people back with his scream.

To think the same writer had him overpower Doom with Watcher power. SMH.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I've always argued that was breathing. Because I don't see what else it could be.
Maybe bolt is simply laughing at Blue lips. But Scott says they are hitting him with everything they had with no effect whatsoever.

That should be the shittiest showing for bolt.

Maybe he's yawning.

Apocalypse bores him.

Originally posted by Existere
Maybe he's yawning.

Apocalypse bores him.
So Apocalypse is Roman Reigns? Figured.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Maybe bolt is simply laughing at Blue lips. But Scott says they are hitting him with everything they had with no effect whatsoever.

That should be the shittiest showing for bolt. In Black Bolt's defense Scott's an idiot. Or he was like "Hey Black Bolt must be going all out. Hey Jean, check out Black Bolt screaming two feet from my head. Look how durable I am... oh you're having sex with Logan, we'll talk later."

Or something.

But yeah. Either a terrible showing or Scott knows nothing of his limits like he shouldn't. Glorified breath.

Originally posted by abhilegend
We should petition.

Nothing compared to "garlic breath" against Apocalypse though.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_medium/3/35951/3773547-apocpowers4.png
I call bullshiet on this pic. That's clearly not Apocalypse. It looks like a roided out Aztek, Zauriel, or Lightray.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
In Black Bolt's defense Scott's an idiot. Or he was like "Hey Black Bolt must be going all out. Hey Jean, check out Black Bolt screaming two feet from my head. Look how durable I am... oh you're having sex with Logan, we'll talk later."

Or something.

But yeah. Either a terrible showing or Scott knows nothing of his limits like he shouldn't. Glorified breath.
I will take Scott's word over yours. Y'know Pr.

w00tw00tOriginally posted by celeyhyga17
I call bullshiet on this pic. That's clearly not Apocalypse. It looks like a roided out Aztek, Zauriel, or Lightray.
Or Roman Reigns.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
In Black Bolt's defense Scott's an idiot. Or he was like "Hey Black Bolt must be going all out. Hey Jean, check out Black Bolt screaming two feet from my head. Look how durable I am... oh you're having sex with Logan, we'll talk later."

so that we're clear, Apocalypse was amped a shitload during that showing, correct? Off of his machines, or Havok/Living Monolith/the 12, etc?

^ He was? /shrug

I'd give Black Bolt the slight majority here against Namor. But I wouldn't really argue against an even fight either.

Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, if that was in the most recent avengers i've not read it but find it suspect at best, pis at worst. the history of that scream would dictate namor should be ko'd. add to the fact bb has already been even with namor in h2h and it makes no sense whatsoever to claim fists aren't going to do anything. will check out the new avengers stuff shortly, but even assuming you're correct for a moment does not in anyway, make the previous years and years worth of evidence null and void.

Years worth of continuity has seen namor shrug off blows from hulk,hercules,mjonir and even sentry etc,taken a nuke right on the face twice and shrugged it off,being hit by a gun that removes O2 molecules(iirc) from his body thrice and still recovered to rip out his attacker's tongue,tanked an explosion in space,fall from space into the earth's atmosphere and walk out,able to shrug off the effects of an organic fatal barrier that would have killed any other person that was there,including the likes of colossus.

Besides its not like namor shrugged It off anyway,he was knocked out I think,but recovered/healed very quickly. Black panther noted that his physiology and genetics aLlowed him to with stand that,he was also stabbed in the heart too by bp,and just healed it off,so his strength has definately grown,I remember him having to jump in water after being stabbed in the stomach by logan.

Anyhow my point is,I don't see bb having the strength to bypass the durability of namor and knock him out,while I see the other way happening. Namor's physical feats definitely outweight bb

Originally posted by Existere
so that we're clear, Apocalypse was amped a shitload during that showing, correct? Off of his machines, or Havok/Living Monolith/the 12, etc?

You're mixing it up a bit.

That was not Apocalypse from the Twelve storyline, but a much earlier one. X-Factor around early 90s.

That was after he kidnapped the inhumans/created those inhuman offshots "The Dark Riders" and was in the process of using them to power him up.

It's still a bit ambiguous whether he was powered up or just letting loose, but I remember having gone over this incident and it's confirmed in the comic that Black Bolt was only releasing a bit of sound. Even though his mouth is agape he was not screaming.

Cyclops eventually killed him by channeling the power of the Summers bloodline.

Originally posted by Genii96
Years worth of continuity has seen namor shrug off blows from hulk,hercules,mjonir and even sentry etc,taken a nuke right on the face twice and shrugged it off,being hit by a gun that removes O2 molecules(iirc) from his body thrice and still recovered to rip out his attacker's tongue,tanked an explosion in space,fall from space into the earth's atmosphere and walk out,able to shrug off the effects of an organic fatal barrier that would have killed any other person that was there,including the likes of colossus.

Besides its not like namor shrugged It off anyway,he was knocked out I think,but recovered/healed very quickly. Black panther noted that his physiology and genetics aLlowed him to with stand that,he was also stabbed in the heart too by bp,and just healed it off,so his strength has definately grown,I remember him having to jump in water after being stabbed in the stomach by logan.

Anyhow my point is,I don't see bb having the strength to bypass the durability of namor and knock him out,while I see the other way happening. Namor's physical feats definitely outweight bb

well, you're certainly welcome to your opinion, but as i've already outlined i disagree. it's close, but i'll take bb for a slight majority.

Originally posted by krisblaze
You're mixing it up a bit.

That was not Apocalypse from the Twelve storyline, but a much earlier one. X-Factor around early 90s.

That was after he kidnapped the inhumans/created those inhuman offshots "The Dark Riders" and was in the process of using them to power him up.

It's still a bit ambiguous whether he was powered up or just letting loose, but I remember having gone over this incident and it's confirmed in the comic that Black Bolt was only releasing a bit of sound. Even though his mouth is agape he was not screaming.

Cyclops eventually killed him by channeling the power of the Summers bloodline. Cool, thanks Kris.

I dont think we can say Mad Celestials "tanked" the UN. It was a incomplete shot. Thats not like they tanked a full blast of it.

Originally posted by krisblaze
You're mixing it up a bit.

That was not Apocalypse from the Twelve storyline, but a much earlier one. X-Factor around early 90s.

That was after he kidnapped the inhumans/created those inhuman offshots "The Dark Riders" and was in the process of using them to power him up.

It's still a bit ambiguous whether he was powered up or just letting loose, but I remember having gone over this incident and it's confirmed in the comic that Black Bolt was only releasing a bit of sound. Even though his mouth is agape he was not screaming.

Cyclops eventually killed him by channeling the power of the Summers bloodline.
He was powered up by cable's energy.