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Human torch goes nova while surrounded by the DCnu JLA

Superman
Wonder Woman
Batman
GL Hal
Flash Barry
Aquaman
Cyborg

They're all roughly 3 feet away from him, unprepared, not in defense mode. No one character can help any other. Who lives/dies/tanks the nova blast?

Myself:
Pretty sure Superman tanks it, Flash's reflexes can get him to a safe distance, and Batman and Aquaman die.
Unsure on GL, Cyborg and WW.

Batman is the only one who survives.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Batman is the only one who survives.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Batman is the only one who dies.

QFT

Originally posted by riv6672
Human torch goes nova while surrounded by the DCnu JLA

Superman
Wonder Woman
Batman
GL Hal
Flash Barry
Aquaman
Cyborg

They're all roughly 3 feet away from him, unprepared, not in defense mode. No one character can help any other. Who lives/dies/tanks the nova blast?

Myself:
Pretty sure Superman tanks it, Flash's reflexes can get him to a safe distance, and Batman and Aquaman die.
Unsure on GL, Cyborg and WW.

Pretty much on point. I get that it's a weakness for Arthur, but Cyborg isn't really leagues beyond him, so he'd at least be roughed up to all hell. With those two, I could see a case made for death if it's point blank with no shields or anything, but in a comic they'd survive it.

WW would be singed but ultimately survive. GL would be taxed with his shields but would get through it unharmed.

Originally posted by Digi
GL would be taxed with his shields but would get through it unharmed.
Wait, what? Don't GL shields allow them to survive stellar level heat? If GL has his shield up, he'd laugh off a nova blast from the HT.

Originally posted by zopzop
Wait, what? Don't GL shields allow them to survive stellar level heat? If GL has his shield up, he'd laugh off a nova blast from the HT.

That's XYZ logic, which doesn't often apply in comics. There isn't a writer in comicdom who would let anyone but Supes on that roster just shrug it off. Johnny's Nova has done some sh*t in its day.

So this is me agreeing with you in principle, but not in practice. I don't want to say you're wrong - technically it's the right answer, given GL's power - but I did say he'd be unharmed.

Originally posted by Digi
That's XYZ logic, which doesn't often apply in comics. There isn't a writer in comicdom who would let anyone but Supes on that roster just shrug it off. Johnny's Nova has done some sh*t in its day.

So this is me agreeing with you in principle, but not in practice. I don't want to say you're wrong - technically it's the right answer, given GL's power - but I did say he'd be unharmed.
Has he ever used his Nova Blast vs a Herald lvl character?

I remember him doing it against Terrax and Terrax laughed in his face :
http://s21.postimg.org/ur1pd4l9v/Terrax_Bio_8.jpg

Glads laughed it off too. I think Annihilus did too.

However he apparently got a lot more powerful after he got killed and was able to melt/damage baby Annihilus a little bit. Which if it's anywhere near as durable, that's a hell of a feat.

In fairness, that Terrax feat looks like it's from about 1842.

We're splitting hairs, though. What I said didn't actually disagree with you. It's just a matter of a couple degrees (pun intended).

Originally posted by zopzop
Wait, what? Don't GL shields allow them to survive stellar level heat? If GL has his shield up, he'd laugh off a nova blast from the HT.
Thanks to you guys that actually answered!
As to GL, do his shields come up automatically?
I thought they might, but, as of the OP they are off when the nova blast hits...

Superman tanks it. Flash avoids it. Wonder Woman gets 2nd/3rd degree burns and needs medical attention. GL...don't know how fast his shields go up, but shields should tank it (otherwise: see Batman). Aquaman and Cyborg are fatally broiled. Batman becomes a plasma cloud.

Superman, Flash, GL and Wonder Woman walk away from it, the rest die

Only one i question not getting hurt is GL. Was hoping for a solid yes or no on auto shields...

A GL's shield wouldn't even notice anything Human Torch did to it.

Agreed, but thats not what i was questioning. Thanks anyway.

Well the problem is the autoshields seem to vary.

Superman is the only one that withstands it, the others are damaged and some die.

Thats pretty much been established yeah.
We just disagree on who survives and who dies.

I believe everyone tanks but Bruce. Johnny is weaksauce

unless its Batman Forever bruce..

The Nova Blast is an omni directional, 1,000,000 degree fahrenheit attack, comparable to the surface of a star.
I highly doubt Batman is the only one that dies.

I guess it depends on how long they have to deal with the blast. Bruce of course dies and I'm not real sure how durable Cyborg is, but I can see the rest of them living through it. Aquaman is the one that the time limit depends on. If its just a quick blast, he would survive. Sure he would ask for a glass of water afterwards, but he's not a puss.

Thats interesting conjecture. As an Aquaman fan, i have a hard time believing someone who can get bloodied by small arms fire is going to survive an slmost instantaneous temp rise of a million]/i] degrees.

They live.

Cyborg might need some restructuring, but he can't survive extreme bodily injury.

Aquaman might lose his outter layer of skin or something, but he'll live and heal.

The rest only suffer minor injuries imo.

Haha, you atentveven being slightly unbiased.

Gonna go check some other sites for awhile. A protracted conversation at this point is going to be just plain silly.

Originally posted by riv6672
The Nova Blast is an omni directional, 1,000,000 degree fahrenheit attack, comparable to the surface of a star.
I highly doubt Batman is the only one that dies.

A nova blast is nothing to herald levelers. Johnnys only bet is dropping Authur and only due to weakness exploit. Team tanks it save bruce

Well, one, your opinion, i disagree with it. And two, you either misread or are just plain ignoring my OP.
The former is no big deal, thats what these debates are about.
The latter is just funny.

Originally posted by riv6672
Thats interesting conjecture. As an Aquaman fan, i have a hard time believing someone who can get bloodied by small arms fire is going to survive an slmost instantaneous temp rise of a million]/i] degrees.

I have a hard time believing a character that can take a punch or punches from WW and Superman can be bloodied by small arms fire.

Originally posted by riv6672
Well, one, your opinion, i disagree with it. And two, you either misread or are just plain ignoring my OP.
The former is no big deal, thats what these debates are about.
The latter is just funny.

The premise was laughable and simplistic. Who can tank a nova blast from Johnny? Clark is obvious. As is Diana and the lantern. Vic/Authur get hurt but manage and bruce lol, y would u even include him but meh your thread. Im just curious what herald level characters he's managed to do anything significant to that would even warrant a "debate". A million degrees is honestly small potatoes in dc

Lol...there are a lot of people in DC that can not withstand the temperatures of the sun and there are a lot on that list that would be damaged or killed. Stop talking crazy.

I can't see how Aquaman wouldn't die from that.

Namor has fought the Torch many times and seems to be doing just fine.

Originally posted by tkitna
Namor has fought the Torch many times and seems to be doing just fine.

Was Torch trying to kill him?

If it's a quick blast, I can see an argument being made. If it's ongoing, nothing short of Superman is withstanding an attack like that.

Namor isnt aquaman. Frankly he has a better resume. I also have never seen him tank a nova blast.

But he did survive Blackbolt's scream, so take that for what you will

How long does it take Cyborg to teleport? He best option is bfr himself before sustaining life threatening injuries.

Aquaman would survive but need a lot of medical attention. He is resistance to extreme heat and cold temps. He can swim in lava w/o issue.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I believe everyone tanks but Bruce. Johnny is weaksauce I will fight you anytime, anywhere.

Originally posted by tkitna
Namor has fought the Torch many times and seems to be doing just fine. What no one in this thread is aware of apparently is that Johnny got a powerup from his death. He burns a hell of a lot hotter than before.

Enough to cause a decent amount of damage to Baby Annihilus' exo skeleton. How strong he really is now isn't known. But anything he previously did is the minimum.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
What no one in this thread is aware of apparently is that Johnny got a powerup from his death. He burns a hell of a lot hotter than before.

Enough to cause a decent amount of damage to Baby Annihilus' exo skeleton. How strong he really is now isn't known. But anything he previously did is the minimum.

The only one I see surviving is Batman.

Originally posted by Mindset


The only one I see surviving is Batman. That's what I was leading into

Everyone who says otherwise enjoys boys undergarments

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...there are a lot of people in DC that can not withstand the temperatures of the sun and there are a lot on that list that would be damaged or killed. Stop talking crazy.

I said herald levelers son, try and keep up

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
What no one in this thread is aware of apparently is that Johnny got a powerup from his death. He burns a hell of a lot hotter than before.

Enough to cause a decent amount of damage to Baby Annihilus' exo skeleton. How strong he really is now isn't known. But anything he previously did is the minimum.

Powerup or not. He still hasn't done anything to remotely suggest he can dish out the kind of punishment these peeps can handle. His nova flame is pretty much all hype.

Get out of my face sin

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Get out of my face sin

Originally posted by carver9
If it's a quick blast, I can see an argument being made. If it's ongoing, nothing short of Superman is withstanding an attack like that.

That's what I was trying to get at also. It all depends on how long the onslaught goes on.

Originally posted by JayDaDon

But he did survive Blackbolt's scream, so take that for what you will He survived only because BB allowed him to survive. The dialog that Black Panther adds to that scene makes it easy to see that they both wanted him alive when they activated the bomb.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I said herald levelers son, try and keep up



Powerup or not. He still hasn't done anything to remotely suggest he can dish out the kind of punishment these peeps can handle. His nova flame is pretty much all hype.

I'm pretty sure you have proof that the people you are naming can survive the temperature of a star? This is SIN we are talking about here, she wouldn't just say things because it is cute to say. Scans of Cyborg, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern surviving temperatures as hot as the sun. I'll be waiting.

carver is taking no prisoners.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm pretty sure you have proof that the people you are naming can survive the temperature of a star? This is SIN we are talking about here, she wouldn't just say things because it is cute to say. Scans of Cyborg, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern surviving temperatures as hot as the sun. I'll be waiting.

Are his eyes glowing?

As for thread, I can see WW and Superma tanking it, Flash/Cyborg living, GL tanking it, and Aquaman/Batman dying.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm pretty sure you have proof that the people you are naming can survive the temperature of a star? This is SIN we are talking about here, she wouldn't just say things because it is cute to say. Scans of Cyborg, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern surviving temperatures as hot as the sun. I'll be waiting.

Wait i asked for an instance of him damaging a herald. So your response was to demand random ass scans? As hot as the sun? When has Torch produced temperatures as hot as the sun? His feats aren't quantifiable and generally laced with hyperbole. Iirc sue has tanked his nova blast. Show me torches highest energy output and i will reply. Seeing as how he's yet to drop anyone of note......hmmm second thought iirc he dropped Jen. I vaguely remember him doing something pis-y in secret wars. Meh. Still not impressed. He owns the bat. That's it

Originally posted by carver9
Scans of Cyborg, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern surviving temperatures as hot as the sun. I'll be waiting.

Well one down

http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/22617523_1002449-hal4.jpg

WW fighting near the sun with Supes, so two down although the space cheese feat is just for

http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/22617531_2458357-900_solartowb.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/22617532_3050997-wwsm03.png

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Wait i asked for an instance of him damaging a herald. So your response was to demand random ass scans? As hot as the sun? When has Torch produced temperatures as hot as the sun? His feats aren't quantifiable and generally laced with hyperbole. Iirc sue has tanked his nova blast. Show me torches highest energy output and i will reply. Seeing as how he's yet to drop anyone of note......hmmm second thought iirc he dropped Jen. I vaguely remember him doing something pis-y in secret wars. Meh. Still not impressed. He owns the bat. That's it

2 million degrees.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/3853/1334956-torch2.jpg

Who has he went Nova on?

Originally posted by Supermutant
WW fighting near the sun with Supes, so two down although the space cheese feat is just for

http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/22617531_2458357-900_solartowb.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/22617532_3050997-wwsm03.png



Can't tell if serious.

Originally posted by carver9
2 million degrees.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/3853/1334956-torch2.jpg

Who has he went Nova on?

Lmao. Noone because it usually fails.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Lmao. Noone because it usually fails.

On who?

Originally posted by carver9
2 million degrees.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/3853/1334956-torch2.jpg

Who has he went Nova on?

Tbh, that just sounds like Johnny being all 'yeah? WEll, I'll go up to 1 gajillion degrees!!!!'

Honest, question, how hot IS Torch's Nova blast?

All I could find (ignoring things like when they went up against the MoD and were super amped), were things like this:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/3853/1334972-torch3.jpg

A nuclear blast....doesn't seem that bad.

And yet he can.
Someone mentioned the NB not harming herald levelers.
Thats a blanket statement, as all characters arent created equal.

I honestly have no idea how powerful the nova blast is. That said:

A lot gets made of Aquaman's supposed weakness to heat. He can withstand a fair bit; it's not Kryptonite to him. It's just not something he's completely protected against either.

Also, him being bloodied by bullets. Yes, bullets can nick his skin and draw blood. Yet, every time we see a bullet nick him, it bounces away from him after (presumably) hitting his muscles, and the bullets are warped because of it. Bullets aren't really a realistic danger to him.

No they arent but, he's not Superman level invulnerable. He does get bloodied by bullets, slashed by blades.
When i (personally) say the NB kills him its not because of hydration.
I say it'll kill Cyborg;ash the human, slag the tech. Same with Hal if no shirlds, Flash if no reflexes.
A million degree spike is no joke.

Wasn't he swimming in lava when he was fighting the Dead King?

Yeah, all depends on the Nova blast and it's power. A throwaway statement from a childish Johnny isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

Originally posted by riv6672
No they arent but, he's not Superman level invulnerable. He does get bloodied by bullets, slashed by blades.
When i (personally) say the NB kills him its not because of hydration.
I say it'll kill Cyborg;ash the human, slag the tech. Same with Hal if no shirlds, Flash if no reflexes.
A million degree spike is no joke.

I'm not saying a million degrees won't kill him.

I just think that people see blood from bullets and assume that he's somehow weak. The bullets still bounce off him. People were emptying AK's at him and all it did was piss him off.

Sure, he still has that "strong against blunt, not so strong against pointy" thing going on, but we saw him get debris right through his leg, yank it out, and walk it off.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wasn't he swimming in lava when he was fighting the Dead King?

Yeah, all depends on the Nova blast and it's power. A throwaway statement from a childish Johnny isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

he's been fine in lava for the most part yeah. a little singed, but not really in any danger.

Originally posted by riv6672
No they arent but, he's not Superman level invulnerable. He does get bloodied by bullets, slashed by blades.
When i (personally) say the NB kills him its not because of hydration.
I say it'll kill Cyborg;ash the human, slag the tech. Same with Hal if no shirlds, Flash if no reflexes.
A million degree spike is no joke.

Have you got evidence of the million degrees? Tbh I've never seen him go full nova and it be at that temp - they HAVE been a round for awhile, though so I could miss something.

Not arguing that.
Arguing people lumping all herald levelers into one class, and judging them by Superman.

When convenient.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I'm not saying a million degrees won't kill him.

I just think that people see blood from bullets and assume that he's somehow weak. The bullets still bounce off him. People were emptying AK's at him and all it did was piss him off.

Sure, he still has that "strong against blunt, not so strong against pointy" thing going on, but we saw him get debris right through his leg, yank it out, and walk it off.



he's been fine in lava for the most part yeah. a little singed, but not really in any danger.

He healed from a trident stab in the chest (though maybe it was artist error).

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Have you got evidence of the million degrees? Tbh I've never seen him go full nova and it be at that temp - they HAVE been a round for awhile, though so I could miss something.

Every single instance of him going nova is hyperbole. EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE

Thats why you need to check stats sheets, too.
Stat sheets said 1 million degrees. All caps, 1 million degrees.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Every single instance of him going nova is hyperbole. EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE

Yeah. The best I could find was on the previous page - where it is likened to a nuke.

Still powerful, but not a million degrees. And certainly not 'supernova' or even 'nova' level.

Day what you will, its listed as a million degrees.

Originally posted by riv6672
Thats why you need to check stats sheets, too.
Stat sheets said 1 million degrees. All caps, 1 million degrees.

But without showings to back it up, I might as well say that Aquaman, who has swum in lava, tanks a nova blast. Even though he hasn't been shown to do so.

Or Cyborg, with his promethium self-healing nanites and Apokoliptian tech, tanks it.

Or that as it generates the same heat and intensity as as a star, it actually AMPS Superman.

Or as GL rings are limited only by their wearer's imagination and willpower, and Hal has shown insane amounts of willpower, that he can tank it.

Etc etc. Sentry has the power of a million exploding suns, Daredevil is the man without fear etc.

Originally posted by riv6672
Thats why you need to check stats sheets, too.
Stat sheets said 1 million degrees. All caps, 1 million degrees.

No true avid comic reader goes off of stat sheets. They are grossly inconsistent. You have to base it off of ACTUAL ON PANEL EVENTS. I can't see how some posters feel Diana cant or Authur or Vic cant tank it when Sue has nearly every single time he's used it. Plus IMMEDIATELY afterwards he's out of the match. It's weaksauce.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah. The best I could find was on the previous page - where it is likened to a nuke.

Still powerful, but not a million degrees. And certainly not 'supernova' or even 'nova' level.

That's the best you'll find unless u count the plank heat but that has context. There's also the combination of him and storm frying hulk but that was shared and accomplished nothing. He did nothing to cosmic doom. And when he tried it on tony got owned

@DarkSaint85
Not going to argue with your perfectly valid points.
I will say one, agree to disagree, and two, the fact that we're 4 pages in and are NOW starting to get people down playing HTs attack, just tells me they ran out of ways to justify certain characters' invulnerability.

Originally posted by riv6672
Day what you will, its listed as a million degrees.

Fair enough.

I shall read the question as, who can tank a blast that measures a million degrees (Farenheit?) That will avoid all doubt.

I stand by my earlier assessment.

As opposed to posters who will say things like Batman can survive a direct tank round hit.
I saw those panels, too.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Fair enough.

I shall read the question as, who can tank a blast that measures a million degrees (Farenheit?) That will avoid all doubt.

I stand by my earlier assessment.

I find it odd that in the absence of evidence to support a stance people will still choose.to back said chatacter without a base. Anywho

http://s228.photobucket.com/user/aeverett55/media-full//NOVA.jpg.html

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/3/36037/746281-absorptionnovablastks3.jpg
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/3/36037/746282-897621-ht1.jpg

Since we are basing things off pure hyperbole heres some unquantifiable scans to choose from

Yeah. The Planck showing was when he had every Johnny of the Multiverse in him, right?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah. The Planck showing was when he had every Johnny of the Multiverse in him, right?

Yup

The annihilus one looks the best imo because until the ccr came into play it appeared he would destroy the whole wave

@Sin,

Why is it Hyperbole about Johnny heat?

Originally posted by Digi
Pretty much on point. I get that it's a weakness for Arthur, but Cyborg isn't really leagues beyond him, so he'd at least be roughed up to all hell. With those two, I could see a case made for death if it's point blank with no shields or anything, but in a comic they'd survive it.

WW would be singed but ultimately survive. GL would be taxed with his shields but would get through it unharmed.

WW did survive a bloodlusted Supermans hv with taking visable damage. Hell, her titties smothered a warp core explosion, and looked just fine.

Flash could just vibrate through it, like Wally did through Anti Monitors anti matter.

Wonder if Superman would get an amp.

Originally posted by carver9
@Sin,

Why is it Hyperbole about Johnny heat?

Johnny's words are exactly like a teenager's - well, I see your million and raise you 2 million!

Then, he never actually did it. Empty boasts.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Johnny's words are exactly like a teenager's - well, I see your million and raise you 2 million!

Then, he never actually did it. Empty boasts.

What does that have to do with my question though about his height in power when it comes to his heat?

Batman batkicks the Nova blast back at human torch

Originally posted by carver9
@Sin,

Why is it Hyperbole about Johnny heat?

Because every instance of him going nova he was bragging. Take him and doom for example. Doom says he can survive a million degree heat Johnny says well i can just go two million. Neither of which is ever shown. Plus we all know that going nova for storm is basically suicide because if he doesn't drop his opponent (which he never has) he's out of the fight from exhaustion. So it's a safe assumption that he didnt reach anywhere near those temps in his "fight" with doom because he would have fell to the earth.

Imo his greatest feat is fighting the wave. Because it seemed as if he was wiping out the entire wave until he got stopped. But there's never any mention of the level of heat expended. Id say the scan ds posted is the best example of his max output. A small nuke blast. Unless u can find another example

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Because every instance of him going nova he was bragging. Take him and doom for example. Doom says he can survive a million degree heat Johnny says well i can just go two million. Neither of which is ever shown. Plus we all know that going nova for storm is basically suicide because if he doesn't drop his opponent (which he never has) he's out of the fight from exhaustion. So it's a safe assumption that he didnt reach anywhere near those temps in his "fight" with doom because he would have fell to the earth.

Imo his greatest feat is fighting the wave. Because it seemed as if he was wiping out the entire wave until he got stopped. But there's never any mention of the level of heat expended. Id say the scan ds posted is the best example of his max output. A small nuke blast. Unless u can find another example


So this is him bragging?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/40000/1069839-untitled_7.png

Originally posted by carver9
What does that have to do with my question though about his height in power when it comes to his heat?

Hyperbole = exaggerated statement.

Johnny was exaggerating.

Just like every other person in comics that I have seen, so far, that talks about the Human Torch and him going nova.

Everyone talks about how powerful it is. But we have never seen any actual proof of it. So until then, the power is exaggerated. His 'most powerful shot' was absorbed by Iron Man, easily, and was likened to a starship. His nova was 'akin to a nuclear blast'. All powerful statements, sure, but nowhere near his bio and stats card. And certainly nowhere near his boast to Cosmic Doom.

Hence, hyperbole.

Originally posted by carver9
So this is him bragging?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/40000/1069839-untitled_7.png

much better. That was what I was asking for.

Originally posted by carver9
So this is him bragging?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/40000/1069839-untitled_7.png

It's not bragging. But its still hyperbole. Or rather unquantifiable. And that's his energy output not his heat index. But it's as close as ull get unless someone has scans of him being measured by reed

Originally posted by Sin I AM
It's not bragging. But its still hyperbole. Or rather unquantifiable. And that's his energy output not his heat index. But it's as close as ull get unless someone has scans of him being measured by reed



How is that hyperbole? What are you looking for for it NOT to be hyperbole? The narration is telling us the heat temperature. It's not Johnny himself telling us. What is it you are looking for?

Originally posted by carver9


How is that hyperbole? What are you looking for for it NOT to be hyperbole? The narration is telling us the heat temperature. It's not Johnny himself telling us. What is it you are looking for?

Tell me what temperature is the narrative telling

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Tell me what temperature is the narrative telling

It told you what his heat wave was comparable too. Again, what are you looking for? I'm asking this before I destroy your argument.

Not an argument, just asking how hot is a nova blast, before we can begin to see which one of the DCnU JLA will survive.

Simple, no?

Energies that Rivals an exploding Star. Hhhhmmm

Originally posted by carver9
Energies that Rivals an exploding Star. Hhhhmmm

And I have one that says it is akin to a nuke. Not to mention, mine is much more recent. Aren't you the one who always asks for recent scans?

So either your star is small, and the size of a small nuke, or my nuke is large, the size of an exploding star.

Add to that, IM easily absorbed another nova (his 'best' shot, no less), AND collateral damage (not 100% the best piece of evidence, but it adds to the picture), and you can see why Sin and I are skeptical.

Hhhhhmmm indeed.

Originally posted by carver9
It told you what his heat wave was comparable too. Again, what are you looking for? I'm asking this before I destroy your argument.

Yes it said it "rivaled". So yea im not convinced. Thing sometimes rivals Hulk in strength but we know that's not always the case. The wording is misleading but go ahead, destroy.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not an argument, just asking how hot is a nova blast, before we can begin to see which one of the DCnU JLA will survive.

Simple, no?
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/121521/2880116-2343963_1_super.jpg

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/121521/2880116-2343963_1_super.jpg

Ccr bran

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Yes it said it "rivaled". So yea im not convinced. Thing sometimes rivals Hulk in strength but we know that's not always the case. The wording is misleading but go ahead, destroy.

When has it said Thing rivaled Hulk in strength? You're not convinced on what? Again, what are you looking for?

Tangibility

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And I have one that says it is akin to a nuke. Not to mention, mine is much more recent. Aren't you the one who always asks for recent scans?

So either your star is small, and the size of a small nuke, or my nuke is large, the size of an exploding star.

Add to that, IM easily absorbed another nova (his 'best' shot, no less), AND collateral damage (not 100% the best piece of evidence, but it adds to the picture), and you can see why Sin and I are skeptical.

Hhhhhmmm indeed.

You got a scan of that Iron man feat?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Ccr bran It says he burns like the sun before the CCR. You guys asked and Torch said.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
A nuclear blast....doesn't seem that bad. Those are hotter than the Sun's surface

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/121521/2880116-2343963_1_super.jpg

So like we said, only Batman survives.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Those are hotter than the Sun's surface

Not a million degrees though, which was rivs original point.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
You got a scan of that Iron man feat?

Sin posted it, page 4.

^Who needs H1 with Math skills like those?

While we're mining Johnny's entire history, there's a hilariously old school feat where Johnny uses his nova blast to bust out of a giant adamantium box.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He healed from a trident stab in the chest (though maybe it was artist error).

if it's the one I'm thinking of, it's not artist error. Johns just likes to injure Aquaman and have him quickly heal off-panel for some reason.

Six pages in and myvearlier starement stands.
Feats, narration, and scans can be interpreted in wildly different ways depending on the argument one is trying to make.
Stats sheets as well.
Which is why i said
Originally posted by riv6672
too.
I never said it had to be one or the other.
There's a lot of information out there.
Sifting through it takes a measure of common sense, an open mind towards opposing arguments, with a grain of salt thrown in because well, some people's comprehension skills arent great at best, or they're just plain biased at worst.

With thanks to riv.

Johnny's 'full nova blast' is enough to raze a city block. I reckon everyone tanks it, except Bats.

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans10/FF249_vsGladiator6.jpg

No idea what you're talking about, all i see is a dead link, but yeah, a million degrees would likely damage a city block quite well.

Also, now i'ma get accused of bumping old threads...

Originally posted by riv6672
No idea what you're talking about, all i see is a dead link, but yeah, a million degrees would likely damage a city block quite well.

Also, now i'ma get accused of bumping old threads...

Strange, it shows up for me?

But yeah, it shows Johnny blasting Gladiator with his full nova blast - and Glads just laughing it off.

A million degrees *should* damage way more than just a city block - based on the scans seen so far of the nova blast actually being used, with some comments:

For - Human Torch would obliterate all these guys:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/3853/1334956-torch2.jpg (boasting by Johnny)
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/3/36037/746282-897621-ht1.jpg (this was a Johnny who was powered by EVERY OTHER Johnny in the mulitverse)
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/40000/1069839-untitled_7.png
(good one. rivals a star. Hyperbole?)
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/121521/2880116-2343963_1_super.jpg
(burn LIKE the sun? Hyperbole.)

Against - Everyone tanks it, except Batman, who kicks the flame back at his face:
http://s21.postimg.org/ur1pd4l9v/Terrax_Bio_8.jpg
(It's Terrax, though...hardly the weakest of characters)
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/3/36037/746281-absorptionnovablastks3.jpg
(such power....rivals that of a starship. Tony shit talking?)
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/3853/1334972-torch3.jpg
(nuke blast - small potatoes when we're talking about these guys)
http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans10/FF249_vsGladiator6.jpg
(city block razing - so backs the nuke size and starship size up).

Not sure what your point is but, okay.

Originally posted by riv6672
Not sure what your point is but, okay.

My point is, the nova blast is just hype, and when it is ACTUALLY used, the 'low' showings outweigh the 'high'.

IOW, whilst it may be seen as a weapon of last resort, a Hail Mary play, the JLA will all tank it, because for all its bluster, it isn't actually that powerful. Certainly not at this level.

If you say so.

Which you did. Ad nauseam.

Almost a month ago.

Originally posted by riv6672
If you say so.

Which you did. Ad nauseam.

Almost a month ago.



Yup.

I reiterated it as you kindly provided new information (to me) that further supported my claim.

Ha.

Slow posting day is our friend.

I actually liked this thread in retrospect

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Strange, it shows up for me?

But yeah, it shows Johnny blasting Gladiator with his full nova blast - and Glads just laughing it off.

A million degrees *should* damage way more than just a city block - based on the scans seen so far of the nova blast actually being used, with some comments:

For - Human Torch would obliterate all these guys:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/3853/1334956-torch2.jpg (boasting by Johnny)
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/3/36037/746282-897621-ht1.jpg (this was a Johnny who was powered by EVERY OTHER Johnny in the mulitverse)
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/40000/1069839-untitled_7.png
(good one. rivals a star. Hyperbole?)
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/121521/2880116-2343963_1_super.jpg
(burn LIKE the sun? Hyperbole.)

Against - Everyone tanks it, except Batman, who kicks the flame back at his face:
http://s21.postimg.org/ur1pd4l9v/Terrax_Bio_8.jpg
(It's Terrax, though...hardly the weakest of characters)
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/3/36037/746281-absorptionnovablastks3.jpg
(such power....rivals that of a starship. Tony shit talking?)
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/3853/1334972-torch3.jpg
(nuke blast - small potatoes when we're talking about these guys)
http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans10/FF249_vsGladiator6.jpg
(city block razing - so backs the nuke size and starship size up).

Wouldn't call any of those scans Hyperbole. Especially if we look at the source.

Originally posted by carver9
Wouldn't call any of those scans Hyperbole. Especially if we look at the source.

Source?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Source?

Narrator.

Originally posted by carver9
Narrator.

I dont think u know what hyperbole means

Yo.

Originally posted by riv6672
Human torch goes nova while surrounded by the DCnu JLA

Superman
Wonder Woman
Batman
GL Hal
Flash Barry
Aquaman
Cyborg

They're all roughly 3 feet away from him, unprepared, not in defense mode. No one character can help any other. Who lives/dies/tanks the nova blast?

Myself:
Pretty sure Superman tanks it, Flash's reflexes can get him to a safe distance, and Batman and Aquaman die.
Unsure on GL, Cyborg and WW.

Cy: in the past, he'd generally suffer massive systems failure that COULD perm him, but if he still had that Omegadrome -tech I think he'd still survive it.

GL: I dont believe they have autoshields anymore, but better than even money says Hal gets his up to save his life (while maybe suffering a burn or 2)

WW: like Flash, she could move out of the way b4 it affects her (if she still has the birth blessings of Hermes' speed)

Aquaman: possible chance he might survive, but he's likely suffer 2nd & 3rd degree burn trauma




Tazer

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I dont think u know what hyperbole means

If you can't accept words from a narrator then you have a lot of exempting to do starting with how hot Gladiator, Superman, and Hyperion heat vision is. I don't know what you are expecting to happen for us to know how hot Human Torch heat is.

I remember him going nova with the cosmic control rod amping him up,against the mad Celestials.He ripped through a Celestial`s shoulder pretty good.But did not kill him(still an impressive feat)under the same circumstances everyone dies but Supes,and possibly the Flash.

Originally posted by carver9
Wouldn't call any of those scans Hyperbole. Especially if we look at the source.

Lol, that leaves only one scan, which says it rivals a star.

Stacked against it, all the other scans which say it isn't all that.

Hyperbole for me also extends to narration. Flowery writing and all that. Thor comics are bad for it, being all mystical and all, but generally comics from that era just ran with it for fun. None of this earnest seriousness - hence Sentry, who's retconned to be from that era, with the million exploding suns etc.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol, that leaves only one scan, which says it rivals a star.

Stacked against it, all the other scans which say it isn't all that.

Hyperbole for me also extends to narration. Flowery writing and all that. Thor comics are bad for it, being all mystical and all, but generally comics from that era just ran with it for fun. None of this earnest seriousness - hence Sentry, who's retconned to be from that era, with the million exploding suns etc. Shut up, you nerd.

Originally posted by Mindset
Shut up, you nerd.

Don't provoke me, or my rage will burn like a billion supernovas, and my fists will fall with the force of the same.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol, that leaves only one scan, which says it rivals a star.

Stacked against it, all the other scans which say it isn't all that.

Hyperbole for me also extends to narration. Flowery writing and all that. Thor comics are bad for it, being all mystical and all, but generally comics from that era just ran with it for fun. None of this earnest seriousness - hence Sentry, who's retconned to be from that era, with the million exploding suns etc.

Since we are not accepting words for power output, how would we ever find out how hot Superman or Gladiator heat vision is? Word of mouth or the narrator doesn't mean much so everything that has been 'said' should be ditched if it concerns someone's potential? Or does this just apply to Torch?

Is this hyperbole?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/9/96192/1762280-smcm.jpg

Or this...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111113173/3175696-hulk66.jpg

I can go all day with this. Statements, when do we believe any of them?

When they actually outweigh statements proving the reverse.

So if you produce a scan of Superman lifting infinity, and I produce four scans of him struggling with less than infinity.....guess what, even abhi wouldn't claim he has infinite strength.

Put it this way. If I'm told that i can run fast, like the wind, shall I pull up windspeed charts and say, yes, DS, your top speed is obv equal to a category 8 hurricane?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
When they actually outweigh statements proving the reverse.

So if you produce a scan of Superman lifting infinity, and I produce four scans of him struggling with less than infinity.....guess what, even abhi wouldn't claim he has infinite strength.

This doesn't have a thing to do with hyperbole. No one is saying Superman lifting infinite is his strength or not, what we are discussing here is, the statement that is being said about the book is true. The statement that is being said about what Hulk is engulfed in is true. I'm not asking you about consistency here, what I am saying is, do you or do you not accept the statements in the scans I post and why? You are the one that is claiming statements as being hyperbole, lol, even statements from the narrator.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Put it this way. If I'm told that i can run fast, like the wind, shall I pull up windspeed charts and say, yes, DS, your top speed is obv equal to a category 8 hurricane?

Doesn't make one bit of sense. Now if you was on fire and a narration spoke and said, "your flames are burning hotter than the sun". Why would I deny that? It's the freaking narrator telling us how hot you are burning.

How many of the scans say that hes burning hotter than the sun? Simple question.

Next, how many have him burning at less than that?

So I can run as fast as Hurricane Katrina?

Billy Batson, the World's Mightiest Mortal, is the mightiest on DC Earth?

Galactus punched Old King Thor with the force of a billion supernovas?

Originally posted by carver9
If you can't accept words from a narrator then you have a lot of exempting to do starting with how hot Gladiator, Superman, and Hyperion heat vision is. I don't know what you are expecting to happen for us to know how hot Human Torch heat is.

I can't explain it in words that u can fathom. Alot of things in comics are hyperbole. If hulk was truly the strongest one there is he would have zero losses. If sentry had the power of a million exploding suns his slightest touch would incinerate his opponents. If juggernaut was unstoppable, if Logan was the best there is, if Cyclops could punch a whole thru the moon, if Xavier was the most powerful tp, Hercules is supposedly a god of strength, if batman was the world's greatest detective, if if if... there are too many examples. It's flowery prose that's often used in writing. You have to learn the difference between tangible evidence and exaggerated comments.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How many of the scans say that hes burning hotter than the sun? Simple question.

Next, how many have him burning at less than that?

Why would he need to burn that hot consistently? Doesn't make sense. The guy isn't a killer so there's no need to pour everything in one attack. That's like me asking if Wonder Woman is truly a class 100 because she can punch people like Deathstroke and not kill them. WTF man.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I can't explain it in words that u can fathom. Alot of things in comics are hyperbole. If hulk was truly the strongest one there is he would have zero losses. If sentry had the power of a million exploding suns his slightest touch would incinerate his opponents. If juggernaut was unstoppable, if Logan was the best there is, if Cyclops could punch a whole thru the moon, if Xavier was the most powerful tp, Hercules is supposedly a god of strength, if batman was the world's greatest detective, if if if... there are too many examples. It's flowery prose that's often used in writing. You have to learn the difference between tangible evidence and exaggerated comments.



What...does...this...have...to...do...with...if...something...is...hyperbole...or...not?

OMG. How about I make this simple for you. Is Thor traveling FTL here? This is a yes or no question.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/136540/3087764-0414003828-ThorS.jpg

Wait Johnny can't burn at sun temps then? Because Carver said he could or because random scans had varying temperatures?

Because two of his latest Novas specifically had him burning at the sun's temperature and causing serious damage to Baby Annihilus and a huge supply of troops. And he burns hotter since his death.

Superman solar-flares it back at Johnny and Batman would laugh it off.

Idk about the others but who cares?

Originally posted by carver9


What...does...this...have...to...do...with...if...something...is...hyperbole...or...not?

OMG. How about I make this simple for you. Is Thor traveling FTL here? This is a yes or no question.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/136540/3087764-0414003828-ThorS.jpg

Yes because he's shown ftl travel via mjolnir before and after.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Yes because he's shown ftl travel via mjolnir before and after.

Why are you accepting the narration there as legit?

Originally posted by carver9
Why are you accepting the narration there as legit?

Because it's backed up. Whereas ht is not

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Because it's backed up. Whereas ht is not

What is it backed up by? A statement or do you have some other type of evidence?

Originally posted by carver9
Why are you accepting the narration there as legit?

Why wouldn't they? You do it all the time.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why wouldn't they? You do it all the time.

I know I do it along with almost everyone here. I'm asking her that because she isn't accepting narration for Human Torch.

Originally posted by carver9
I know I do it along with almost everyone here. I'm asking her that because she isn't accepting narration for Human Torch.

Because the narrative is not backed by on panel EVENTS. Johnny has not dropped ANYONE by going nova. Prove me wrong and i concede otherwise stfu and stick to hulk threads

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Because the narrative is not backed by on panel EVENTS. Johnny has not dropped ANYONE by going nova. Prove me wrong and i concede otherwise stfu and stick to hulk threads

What type of on panel events are you talking about and who has he went Nova against?