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https://gma.yahoo.com/salt-lake-city-first-responders-heard-mystery-voice-174522809--abc-news-topstories.html

Funky story.
For those that dont want to bother clicking: Submerged car. Dead mother. Live child. Mysterious voice. Check car. Find both.

As i believe in ghosts (hence the after life, hence the religion forum), i'm glad the rescuers didnt goad/macho themselves into believing they heard nothing.

Pretty obvious question: whats your stance on ghosts, especially if you're religious?

Seventh Day Adventists and various other Christian groups posit that what we call ghosts are actually angels and demons.

They use the following as one of their reference scriptures:

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5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

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https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes+9&version=AKJV


Much though I'd like to believe some aspect of friends and loved ones survive for the present, I'm inclined to agree with the above.

This is not to say that there WON'T be a day when friends and loved ones can be seen again. Practically the whole of Christianity is based on the belief that following Jesus Christ will result in resurrection and (hopefully) reuniting with those we loved in the present life.

Thanks for that...

Originally posted by riv6672
Thanks for that...

Well, what about you ...?

A black guy who follows a Viking religion?

Pretty sure your take on the supernatural would make for interesting conversation. How did you decide on Asatru, for instance?
What do they believe happens to people who die, and what is their stance on ghosts?

Originally posted by riv6672
https://gma.yahoo.com/salt-lake-city-first-responders-heard-mystery-voice-174522809--abc-news-topstories.html

Funky story.
For those that dont want to bother clicking: Submerged car. Dead mother. Live child. Mysterious voice. Check car. Find both.

As i believe in ghosts (hence the after life, hence the religion forum), i'm glad the rescuers didnt goad/macho themselves into believing they heard nothing.

Pretty obvious question: whats your stance on ghosts, especially if you're religious?

There are a lot of things not understood, left unexplained and, for good or bad, left unsaid. I respect the officers and firefighters decision not to speak to ABC. It's very unfortunate that the toddler will grow up without his/her mother but it's awesome that he/she survived, to hopefully live a good life.

As far as spirits or ghosts, I dunno. Just be a decent person and let everything else sort itself out later.

Also, don't let your family pick up the tab for your burial. That's just being a selfish d-bag.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Well, what about you ...?

A black guy who follows a Viking religion?

Pretty sure your take on the supernatural would make for interesting conversation. How did you decide on Asatru, for instance?
What do they believe happens to people who die, and what is their stance on ghosts?
I'm not unique, in being a "non white" (univetsalist) Asatru.
As for ghosts, the draugr/revenats, they're tied into burial practices, a lot like other religions.
As i give credence to all religions i have no problem believing in people coming back in different ways for different reasons.

There are many accounts of ghostly sightings in christian tradition, in the New Testament the Apostles mistake Jesus with a Ghost several times (even when he was alive, lol) and the reply was never anything categorically denying or implying Ghosts. Then there is the transfiguration where two clearly dead prophets are manifested into physical experience (this is complex because we are to understand that the Apostles in a place full of Grace and not that the dead appeared on Earth, I think). At the very least, I doesn't seem the kind of thing to be openly dismissed.

However, religious leaders will side with caution in this kind of experience, simply because any supernatural manifestation can easily stray people from faith. When suffering, some people would rather see their dead relatives than to care about Jesus or other trascendant beings expressing their love or gratitute to them. Since it's risky business and the believers don't win anything by trusting into manifestations from the dead, any official stance on this is unlikely.

Personally I don't believe in Ghosts. If something similar to what we call spirits exist, good for them, but my conception of the world doesn't need to accept them or refuse them. An example such as the one presented in the article could be explained by two timelines overlapping of sorts, communication from the past towards the future or simply experiencing a moment of the universe in which we didn't physically exist. Not saying that's the case though, it's just that the idea of ghosts has no allure to me.

My issue with the demon/angel explanation is that you can see it as a cop out. You explain it as a demon if it hurts faith and as an angel if it helps it. As I mentioned it earlier, supernatural events only matter to religious authorities when they affect faith itself. In this case, it's a bit like evaluating after the fact and not caring about the actual phenomena.

Really good point

Regarding religious authorities. A cover your ass kind of thing...

Ghosts are most certainly not the same thing as angels or demons. Not even close. Ghosts are supposed to be the spirits of dead people while angels and demons are immortal spirit beings that have always been spirits since the time they were created. Of course, God didn't "create" demons. Demons are the fallen angels who rebelled against God. ..To suggest that angels/demons and ghosts are the same thing is ridiculous.



For anyone who has read the Bible and realizes that the Bible is , in fact, the inspired Word of God, ghosts do not exist. And I'm one of those people. I don't know exactly where it is in the Bible but it states clearly "The dead know nothing".


Everyone who has died, with an extremely few exceptions, have remained dead since they died and will stay that way until sometime in the very near future when Christ returns. Bible states: "The dead in Christ will rise first". Meaning those who were saved will rise from their graves in spirit form and rule with Christ over a renewed earth (Heaven on Earth) for a thousand years. After which time, those who were not saved will be judged for their sins.


They will not burn for eternity though. That's a misconception. They will be thrown into the lake of fire and they will be burned-up until there is absolutely nothing left. Bible states: "For the wages of sin is death". Not eternal torture like so many are deceived into believing. It's everlasting punishment (eternal death) not "everlasting punishing" (torture).

Originally posted by Star428
Ghosts are most certainly not the same thing as angels or demons. Not even close. Ghosts are supposed to be the spirits of dead people while angels and demons are immortal spirit beings that have always been spirits since the time they were created. Of course, God didn't "create" demons. Demons are the fallen angels who rebelled against God. ..To suggest that angels/demons and ghosts are the same thing is ridiculous.


Not sure if this part of the message was directed at me or not.

If it was, I should probably clarify that I do NOT believe that people become angels like, say, Clarence in that Christmas Special "It's a Wonderful Life".

On the other hand, I'm more inclined than not to say that angels, speaking primarily of fallen angels now, have the power to disguise themselves as what we think of when we talk of ghosts. Which, again, is nearly exactly the stance of the Seventh Day Adventist church, derived from precisely the premise you outlined in the rest of your message, and that is that the dead remain so until resurrection by God and/or judgement.

Originally posted by riv6672
...Pretty obvious question: whats your stance on ghosts, especially if you're religious?

I do not believe in ghosts.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I do not believe in ghosts.

What do you think of ghost as a symbol?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I do not believe in ghosts.
I think we all knew that.

A ghost is the on-going self-process of a deceased person, and thus is no longer attached to, or identifies with, ordinary matter. Itself reduced by the death event to focusing on only the most emotionally charged aspects of that dead person's psyche, the self-process repeatedly fabricates a minimized simulacrum of that person -- with virtual particles -- addressing (or trying to address) that emotional charge (ie, the "unfinished business" that's keeping it earthbound).



That said: I've yet to experience anything, Anything, that would even remotely suggest a ghostly encounter. However, I have gotten very good at being in a dark place with others and suddenly exclaiming, "What was that? Did you hear that?" and "Over there - I think I saw something..."

Oh thats just mean!