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No giga-drain.

Who wins?

Traya ragdolls

What about their performances against Meetra?

Nyriss wrecks

Nyriss

Nyriss. I'm under the impression that TOR Sith are superior to everyone during the Jedi Civil War time-period except Revan, Malak, And maybe Nihilus.

Its surprising to see so many people picking Nyriss here.

Darth Traya, she is more powerful than Meetra Surik without nexus involvement, of which Nyriss had a lot of. Traya's feats as a whole are more impressive, especially given that Nyriss' feats are exclusively amplified in the first place.

Traya lost to Meetra though, despite as you say being more powerful without nexus involvement. And she had a very powerful nexus amping her.

Nyriss beat Meetra with a lesser amp, if she had one at all. Nyriss also has the undeniable advantage in sabers, since she possesses two hands.

Nyriss.

Traya did lose, because Meetra apparently out-skilled her in close-combat.

Darth Nyriss' compound was full of Sith artifacts and trinkets not to mention is itself on Dromund Kaas. Surik as I have said before could quite easily have been diminished in Force strength by Kaas as other Jedi have been. So Amped Nyriss blitzed an under-strength Surik as I understand it.

Traya has one hand indeed, fortunately she is more than capable of waging telekinetic duels with lightsabers against Nyriss simultaneously.

However the likelihood of this being a Force bout is far greater than it being a lightsaber duel.

I seriously doubt Surik was more diminished in strength than when she was in Malachor V fighting Traya...

Traya force eats

EDIT: lmao didn't see OP. Still going with Traya for slight majority.

She was described as mentally ill whilst on the surface but nothing more than that. On the other hand there is direct mention of Surik feeling the presence of the Dark Side on and around Dromund Kaas.

Malachor V is a much bigger nexus than DK. If you've played KOTOR 2 you should know that.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Traya did lose, because Meetra apparently out-skilled her in close-combat.

Darth Nyriss' compound was full of Sith artifacts and trinkets not to mention is itself on Dromund Kaas. Surik as I have said before could quite easily have been diminished in Force strength by Kaas as other Jedi have been. So Amped Nyriss blitzed an under-strength Surik as I understand it.

Traya has one hand indeed, fortunately she is more than capable of waging telekinetic duels with lightsabers against Nyriss simultaneously.

However the likelihood of this being a Force bout is far greater than it being a lightsaber duel.

Yeah and Nyriss can as well, hence why I pointed out her sabers advantage.

Trayas Academy would have been just as full of Sith artifacts and trinkets plus it's incredibly powerful in the darkside and debilitating to lightsiders. Meetra would have been more diminished there than on Kaas. The novel specifically mentions this and it doesn't mention jack shit about her being weakened on Kaas. PLUS Meetra had to fight through Malachor, the entire academy and Sion to get to Traya. You really expect me to believe she was in better shape than she was against Nyriss?

Which was ineffective against Meetra and has nothing establishing its effectiveness that makes us think it would beat Nyriss.

Nah, Nyriss attacked with sabers first. And its common sense to engage the one-armed woman in melee.

Yet Surik has not been described as anything more than mentally distraught and physically pressured whilst on the surface. Indeed by comparison to others that have been there she remained largely immune to it's effects.

Dromund Kaas however was experimented on by the Sith Emperor and corrupted directly due to this. According to codex entries it was already a place strong with the Dark Side before they ever settled Kaas City, before the Citadel, before the Emperor's vast experiments, and before the Dark Temple's thousands of Sith spirits ever had an effect. On-top of this Nyriss had countless Sith artifacts, trinkets and more installed which would only enhance the powers there even further.

We can debate the strengths of the two worlds at length, but the important factor here is that Nyriss was in the depths of her own compound during all of her combat feats. We have to diminish their argumentative value to argue this point objectively.

No, you have to augment their argumentative value to argue this point objectively. Provide proof that these artifacts actually had an effect on Nyriss's strength. I don't recall anything ever being said of this in Revan. And you, once again, ignored a very important fact: even though if what you claim is true and Malachor had little effect on the Exile, it still amped Traya. And she still got beat by the Exile.

Besides, it doesn't really matter if Malachor had the same or lesser effect in Exile than DK. Considering she had to kill a ton of beasts and other Sith (including Sion) to get to Traya, there really is no way for her to have been in a better state when fighting Traya than when fighting Nyriss.

I dunno about you guys but Traya doesn't even consider herself a real Sith in comparison to the "True Sith" AKA Vitiate's Empire.

I thought she was referring to Marka Ragnos, Tulak Hord, etc?

Nyriss most likely.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
No, you have to augment their argumentative value to argue this point objectively. Provide proof that these artifacts actually had an effect on Nyriss's strength. I don't recall anything ever being said of this in Revan. And you, once again, ignored a very important fact: even though if what you claim is true and Malachor had little effect on the Exile, it still amped Traya. And she still got beat by the Exile.

Besides, it doesn't really matter if Malachor had the same or lesser effect in Exile than DK. Considering she had to kill a ton of beasts and other Sith (including Sion) to get to Traya, there really is no way for her to have been in a better state when fighting Traya than when fighting Nyriss.

Provide proof that these particular Sith objects, very likely alchemically enhanced ones at that, are the exception to the rule because Sith objects always provide a boost to one's power.

What I claim? You mean what Drew Karpyshyn wrote. Yes it did amp Traya, to an unknown degree. Would you like to know what you keep ignoring? That Darth Traya has incredibly impressive feats off-nexus that belies the idea that she can't perform said feats off of a nexus. Darth Nyriss cannot claim the same thing.

Whilst she was likely physical tired after that, what you ignore is that Meetra was also not at full strength on Dromund Kaas either. Given her vacation to Nathema beforehand.

LOL @ DK being a stronger nexus than Malachor V

Nobody said it was.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Provide proof that these particular Sith objects, very likely alchemically enhanced ones at that, are the exception to the rule because Sith objects always provide a boost to one's power.

What I claim? You mean what Drew Karpyshyn wrote. Yes it did amp Traya, to an unknown degree. Would you like to know what you keep ignoring? That Darth Traya has incredibly impressive feats off-nexus that belies the idea that she can't perform said feats off of a nexus. Darth Nyriss cannot claim the same thing.

Whilst she was likely physical tired after that, what you ignore is that Meetra was also not at full strength on Dromund Kaas either. Given her vacation to Nathema beforehand.

Alchemically enhanced ones do provide a power boost, but it is a permanent one that remains with the Sith on and off the nexus, meaning DK has nothing to do with that. But Sith objects per se don't necessarily provide a boost. Eg, holocrons. Do you know exactly what type of Sith objects Nyriss owned?

You're helping me with your point. The fact that Surik defeated Traya even when she has incredibly impressive feats off nexus, shows just how powerful Nyriss is given that she outdueled Scourge and Surik simultaneously.

She was still in a better shape when facing Nyriss than Traya. As I said, going through Malachor killing a lot of beasts and Sith is worse than what she went through before she faced Nyriss.

The difference being that all Nyriss beating Surik proves is that she is faster than the Jedi is, because that is basically what it was, a speed-blitz. The Force in fact wasn't used much at all beyond a TK attack or two before Revan intervened.

That is the issue here, you are arguing that an amped Nyriss speedblitzing Surik proves she defeats Traya because Traya was out-skilled by Surik. There is no legitimate comparison to be made for Force powers. Which makes your already flawed ABC logic basis even less valid.

Finally, Meetra had to survive on Nathema through willpower to stop from being torn apart spiritually. A place she describes as infinitely worse than Malachor V. Then after this she went to a powerful nexus of Dark Side energy. Any way you put it Surik wasn't 100% on Dromund Kaas either.

Does no one believe Traya when she implies that she's not even a Sith in comparison to the True Sith.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Does no one believe Traya when she implies that she's not even a Sith in comparison to the True Sith.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
I thought she was referring to Marka Ragnos, Tulak Hord, etc?

She differentiates the Ancient Sith and The True Sith, the True Sith she says is what Revan is going to fight in the unknown regions, which was eventually revealed to be Vitiate's Empire.